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Messages in runacc group. Page 5 of 67.

Group: runacc Message: 201 From: Ricky & Karen Dick Date: 5/20/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers’ Room: Juried vs First-Come, First Served
Group: runacc Message: 202 From: Trudy Leonard Date: 5/20/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers Room
Group: runacc Message: 203 From: Ricky & Karen Dick Date: 5/20/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers Room
Group: runacc Message: 204 From: henryosier@cs.com Date: 5/20/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers’ Room: Juried vs First-Come, First Served
Group: runacc Message: 205 From: Betsy Delaney Date: 5/20/2003
Subject: Space assignments and other things of note.
Group: runacc Message: 206 From: Ricky & Karen Dick Date: 5/20/2003
Subject: Re: Space assignments and other things of note.
Group: runacc Message: 207 From: Byron Connell Date: 5/20/2003
Subject: Re: Exhibits/Dealers (was Re: Dealers Room)
Group: runacc Message: 208 From: Elaine Mami Date: 5/20/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers’ Room
Group: runacc Message: 209 From: Trudy Leonard Date: 5/20/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers’ Room
Group: runacc Message: 210 From: Bruce & Nora Mai Date: 5/21/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers’ Room — back to Janet
Group: runacc Message: 211 From: Martin Gear Date: 5/21/2003
Subject: Re: Space assignments and other things of note.
Group: runacc Message: 212 From: Tina Connell Date: 5/21/2003
Subject: Newbies
Group: runacc Message: 213 From: Elaine Mami Date: 5/21/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers’ Room — back to Janet
Group: runacc Message: 214 From: Andrew Trembley Date: 5/21/2003
Subject: Re: Newbies
Group: runacc Message: 215 From: Elaine Mami Date: 5/21/2003
Subject: Re: Newbies
Group: runacc Message: 216 From: Byron Connell Date: 5/21/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers’ Room — back to Janet
Group: runacc Message: 217 From: Cliff and Eileen Date: 5/22/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers Room
Group: runacc Message: 218 From: Cliff and Eileen Date: 5/22/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers Room
Group: runacc Message: 219 From: Betsy Delaney Date: 5/22/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers Room
Group: runacc Message: 220 From: Andrew Trembley Date: 5/22/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers Room
Group: runacc Message: 221 From: Ricky & Karen Dick Date: 5/22/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers Room
Group: runacc Message: 222 From: Les Roth Date: 5/22/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers Room
Group: runacc Message: 223 From: Bruce & Nora Mai Date: 5/22/2003
Subject: Re: Newbies stuff from Tina
Group: runacc Message: 224 From: Tina Connell Date: 5/23/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers Room
Group: runacc Message: 225 From: Betsy Delaney Date: 5/23/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers Room and discussion progress
Group: runacc Message: 226 From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger Date: 5/25/2003
Subject: photography
Group: runacc Message: 227 From: Bruce & Nora Mai Date: 5/26/2003
Subject: Re: photography
Group: runacc Message: 228 From: Trudy Leonard Date: 5/26/2003
Subject: Re: photography
Group: runacc Message: 229 From: Betsy Delaney Date: 5/27/2003
Subject: Re: photography – more comments
Group: runacc Message: 230 From: Ricky & Karen Dick Date: 5/27/2003
Subject: Re: photography
Group: runacc Message: 231 From: henryosier@cs.com Date: 5/27/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers Room
Group: runacc Message: 232 From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger Date: 5/28/2003
Subject: Re: photography
Group: runacc Message: 233 From: JBdashoff@aol.com Date: 5/29/2003
Subject: Re: Green Room
Group: runacc Message: 234 From: Martin Gear Date: 5/29/2003
Subject: Re: Green Room
Group: runacc Message: 235 From: Betsy Delaney Date: 5/29/2003
Subject: Costume-ConNections going down momentarily. Drum roll, please!
Group: runacc Message: 236 From: Ricky & Karen Dick Date: 5/29/2003
Subject: Re: Green Room
Group: runacc Message: 237 From: Kevin Roche Date: 5/29/2003
Subject: Re: Green Room
Group: runacc Message: 238 From: Martin Gear Date: 5/29/2003
Subject: Re: Green Room
Group: runacc Message: 239 From: Andrew Trembley Date: 5/29/2003
Subject: Draft invite/job description for CC26 Bid Committee members
Group: runacc Message: 240 From: Byron Connell Date: 5/29/2003
Subject: Re: Green Room
Group: runacc Message: 241 From: Betsy Delaney Date: 5/30/2003
Subject: Re: Green Room
Group: runacc Message: 242 From: Andrew Trembley Date: 5/30/2003
Subject: DRAFT monthly reminder
Group: runacc Message: 243 From: Andrew Trembley Date: 5/30/2003
Subject: Oh, just to clarify…
Group: runacc Message: 244 From: Betsy Delaney Date: 6/1/2003
Subject: Drum roll, please! Costume-ConNections Relaunched!
Group: runacc Message: 245 From: Tina Connell Date: 6/2/2003
Subject: Fabric dealer (re: dealers room discussion a couple of weeks ago)
Group: runacc Message: 246 From: Andrew Trembley Date: 6/2/2003
Subject: Da Packet…
Group: runacc Message: 247 From: Elaine Mami Date: 6/2/2003
Subject: Re: Da Packet…
Group: runacc Message: 248 From: Andrew Trembley Date: 6/2/2003
Subject: Re: Da Packet…
Group: runacc Message: 249 From: henryosier@cs.com Date: 6/2/2003
Subject: Re: Da Packet…
Group: runacc Message: 250 From: betsy Date: 6/2/2003
Subject: Re: Da Packet…

 


 

Group: runacc Message: 201 From: Ricky & Karen Dick Date: 5/20/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers’ Room: Juried vs First-Come, First Served

Most of the juried dealer’s rooms I’ve come across have been to avoid
duplication in products, not to keep out non-themed dealers.

When we were in the clown world, most conventions limited their dealer
rooms to two of any given type of dealer. So: two shoe dealers tops, two
costume dealers tops, two wig dealers tops, etc. This SUCKED for us,
because we were a costume company on a convention circuit where there were
already two established costume companies that were deeply entrenched at
the lion’s share of conventions. There were also conventions where we were
not allowed to sell socks, or wigs, or shoes, or whatever subset of our
regular inventory, because those “rights” were held by another dealer for
that convention. That sucked, too, as we were diversified in order to
maximize our potential earnings at any given convention.

I would like to see Costume-Con avoid the kind of dealer politics we
encountered on a regular basis in the clown world. (One of the many reasons
we are NOT on the clown convention circuit any more.)

I would like to see Costume-Con handle its dealers the way other
professional trade shows do: You pay your money, and you get a space. If
you pay late, you might not end up with quite the space you wanted (up
against a wall vs. out on the floor; next to your friends, whatever), or a
space at all. No politics. No preferential treatment.

Sorry, but speaking as someone who’s been out in the trenches for 10+
years, this is a “hot button” for me.

–Karen

At 11:50 AM 5/20/2003 -0400, you wrote:

>The reason that we went with the juried approach was to eliminate dealers
>with the table full of action figures and ones with stuff that wasn’t
>costuming orientated. We felt that this was fair to the dealers, who want to
>make money, and the attendees.
>Henry Osier
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>runacc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
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Group: runacc Message: 202 From: Trudy Leonard Date: 5/20/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers Room

Here’s my problem. We are in a very small convention center. Bigggg
ballroom, nice sized rooms on either side that can be split in two or made
one decent sized room (Dealer’s room and workshops/greenroom) and a small
theatre. I can also close off the back half of the ballroom for workshops,
dances, etc. during the day. That’s it, guys. We also have use of the hotel
boardroom, which is on the other side of the building from the main
convention area, which we had considered setting up as a “stitch’n bitch”
area. The room that I might be able to get for Janet would be off the hotel
lobby, not the convention center lobby, and was a small cafe at one time, so
it has booths and tables in it (which might not be bad for displaying
stuff). I could put the dolls and costume displays in the boardroom, but the
traffic might not be that great, and it would require a constant attendant.
We had the tradeoff of having the convention in an area with plenty of
amenities and have a somewhat small space (but that we have all of), or
having it in a gigantohotel downtown, where they charge $18 a day to park,
we’d be sharing with lots of other folks, and it’s not a place you really
want to walk around in a lot.

Trudy

>From: “Tina Connell” <cvconnel@nycap.rr.com>
>Reply-To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
>To: <runacc@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: Re: [runacc] Dealers Room
>Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 07:16:25 -0400
>
>Well, for starters, what would Janet think about being put in a room away
>from the other dealers’ room? Or are you saying that there is a larger
>room off the lobby which would accommodate bothe Alter Years and the other
>dealers as well? Off the lobby could have its advantages. BTW, I looked
>pretty closely at the books offered by both Poison Pen and Alter Years (as
>did Byron) and there really wasn’t a lot of overlap. It was nice having
>the extra variety. I bought books from both of them. And speaking of
>variety, FABRIC! We hardly ever see it in dealers rooms. If you can get a
>fabric dealer in, that would be a good thing! (Assuming the dealer has
>decent stuff.)
>
>Incidentally, if I were making the decision I wouldn’t put the dolls in
>Dealers. Too much chance for them to get damaged, and if they’re near a
>popular dealer, not very accessible after all.
>
>Tina
> —– Original Message —–
> From: Trudy Leonard
> To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, May 19, 2003 12:49 AM
> Subject: Re: [runacc] Dealers Room
>
>
>
> I’m very interested in hearing everyone’s thoughts on this. Janet has
> indicated an interest in bring her truck full of stuff to Atlanta. At
>the
> moment, I don’t really have anywhere to put her. Our space is at a
>premium.
> Even though we have the entire convention area, it ain’t that big. I
>can
> fit 14 tables and the doll exhibit into our dealer’s room. I could fit
>more
> if I put tables down the middle of the room, but I am hoping to have
>enough
> space for people to move comfortably. There is another space that I
>might
> be able to get from the hotel, but it won’t be in the convention area,
>but
> will be just off the hotel lobby. I would love for the folks here who
>don’t
> have access to a G Street, or Alter Years or some other source for all
>the
> historical patterns, accessories, etc, to have a chance to buy some of
>these
> things. On the other hand, Poison Pen is already booked as one of the
> dealers, and I hate to lessen her sales (even if it is “business”).
>
> I’m not too keen on the “selling out of a hotel room” idea. I don’t
>think
> you would do as well if folks had to find you and not have you right
>there
> in the traffic flow. One of the reasons, besides space, that we are
>putting
> the dolls in the dealers room is to increase the traffic for both.
>
> Trudy
>
> >From: Bruce & Nora Mai <casamai@sbcglobal.net>
> >Reply-To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> >To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: [runacc] Dealers Room
> >Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 17:15:03 -0500
> >
> >This is a question for Henry, but I’d like hear input from the rest of
>you.
> >
> >Henry:
> >
> >Can you ask your Liason about any feedback they got about how the other
> >dealers felt about Janet having a room all to herself? Our Liason
>feels
> >very strongly that this was very unfair to them. My position is, if
>she’s
> >willing to come with all her stuff, and pay appropriately, why not?
>How
> >important is it for AlterYears to be part of a mix, no matter how much
>she
> >brings? Is limiting all dealers to a certain number of tables
>inherently
> >fair?
> >
> >Thanks.
> >
> >Bruce
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
> >
> >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >runacc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________
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>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Group: runacc Message: 203 From: Ricky & Karen Dick Date: 5/20/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers Room

I don’t think Janet would have a problem being away from the other dealers
if it means she gets the kind of space she needs (but you’d have to ask
her). AlterYears is always a draw, so I think your convention attendees
will find her no matter where you put her. Are the boardroom and cafe of
comparable size, and would it make sense to swap AlterYears and the
dolls/exhibits?
Or put out the call for volunteers to sit at the entrance of the exhibits
in 2- or 3-hour shifts so it is constantly attended?

–Karen

At 02:25 PM 5/20/2003 -0400, you wrote:

>Here’s my problem. We are in a very small convention center. Bigggg
>ballroom, nice sized rooms on either side that can be split in two or made
>one decent sized room (Dealer’s room and workshops/greenroom) and a small
>theatre. I can also close off the back half of the ballroom for workshops,
>dances, etc. during the day. That’s it, guys. We also have use of the hotel
>boardroom, which is on the other side of the building from the main
>convention area, which we had considered setting up as a “stitch’n bitch”
>area. The room that I might be able to get for Janet would be off the hotel
>lobby, not the convention center lobby, and was a small cafe at one time, so
>it has booths and tables in it (which might not be bad for displaying
>stuff). I could put the dolls and costume displays in the boardroom, but the
>traffic might not be that great, and it would require a constant attendant.
>We had the tradeoff of having the convention in an area with plenty of
>amenities and have a somewhat small space (but that we have all of), or
>having it in a gigantohotel downtown, where they charge $18 a day to park,
>we’d be sharing with lots of other folks, and it’s not a place you really
>want to walk around in a lot.
>
>Trudy
> >From: “Tina Connell” <cvconnel@nycap.rr.com>
> >Reply-To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> >To: <runacc@yahoogroups.com>
> >Subject: Re: [runacc] Dealers Room
> >Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 07:16:25 -0400
> >
> >Well, for starters, what would Janet think about being put in a room away
> >from the other dealers’ room? Or are you saying that there is a larger
> >room off the lobby which would accommodate bothe Alter Years and the other
> >dealers as well? Off the lobby could have its advantages. BTW, I looked
> >pretty closely at the books offered by both Poison Pen and Alter Years (as
> >did Byron) and there really wasn’t a lot of overlap. It was nice having
> >the extra variety. I bought books from both of them. And speaking of
> >variety, FABRIC! We hardly ever see it in dealers rooms. If you can get a
> >fabric dealer in, that would be a good thing! (Assuming the dealer has
> >decent stuff.)
> >
> >Incidentally, if I were making the decision I wouldn’t put the dolls in
> >Dealers. Too much chance for them to get damaged, and if they’re near a
> >popular dealer, not very accessible after all.
> >
> >Tina
> > —– Original Message —–
> > From: Trudy Leonard
> > To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Monday, May 19, 2003 12:49 AM
> > Subject: Re: [runacc] Dealers Room
> >
> >
> >
> > I’m very interested in hearing everyone’s thoughts on this. Janet has
> > indicated an interest in bring her truck full of stuff to Atlanta. At
> >the
> > moment, I don’t really have anywhere to put her. Our space is at a
> >premium.
> > Even though we have the entire convention area, it ain’t that big. I
> >can
> > fit 14 tables and the doll exhibit into our dealer’s room. I could fit
> >more
> > if I put tables down the middle of the room, but I am hoping to have
> >enough
> > space for people to move comfortably. There is another space that I
> >might
> > be able to get from the hotel, but it won’t be in the convention area,
> >but
> > will be just off the hotel lobby. I would love for the folks here who
> >don’t
> > have access to a G Street, or Alter Years or some other source for all
> >the
> > historical patterns, accessories, etc, to have a chance to buy some of
> >these
> > things. On the other hand, Poison Pen is already booked as one of the
> > dealers, and I hate to lessen her sales (even if it is “business”).
> >
> > I’m not too keen on the “selling out of a hotel room” idea. I don’t
> >think
> > you would do as well if folks had to find you and not have you right
> >there
> > in the traffic flow. One of the reasons, besides space, that we are
> >putting
> > the dolls in the dealers room is to increase the traffic for both.
> >
> > Trudy
> >
> > >From: Bruce & Nora Mai <casamai@sbcglobal.net>
> > >Reply-To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> > >To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> > >Subject: [runacc] Dealers Room
> > >Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 17:15:03 -0500
> > >
> > >This is a question for Henry, but I’d like hear input from the rest of
> >you.
> > >
> > >Henry:
> > >
> > >Can you ask your Liason about any feedback they got about how the other
> > >dealers felt about Janet having a room all to herself? Our Liason
> >feels
> > >very strongly that this was very unfair to them. My position is, if
> >she’s
> > >willing to come with all her stuff, and pay appropriately, why not?
> >How
> > >important is it for AlterYears to be part of a mix, no matter how much
> >she
> > >brings? Is limiting all dealers to a certain number of tables
> >inherently
> > >fair?
> > >
> > >Thanks.
> > >
> > >Bruce
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
> > >
> > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > >runacc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*.
> > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
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> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > ADVERTISEMENT
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > runacc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
> >
> >
> >
> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
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Group: runacc Message: 204 From: henryosier@cs.com Date: 5/20/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers’ Room: Juried vs First-Come, First Served

In a message dated 5/20/2003 12:16:14 PM Central Daylight Time,
castleb@pulsenet.com writes:

> I don’t think any Costume-Con has ever had non-costuming oriented dealers
> apply for space.

We did.
Henry Osier

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 

Group: runacc Message: 205 From: Betsy Delaney Date: 5/20/2003
Subject: Space assignments and other things of note.
Some general thoughts on space allotments, including Dealer areas and
exhibits…

1. At CC9, not only were the exhibits in the dealer room, but so were
the dolls. Dealers were in the perimiter, and exhibits took up the
center of the room. Ricky, am I remembering correctly that you were
involved in the dealer room then?

I was a dealer at the time, and had a table or two. I was also the
exhibit coordinator. I recall (again, perhaps incorrectly) that there
wasn’t a flow issue, since the dealer space was sufficiently big enough,
for people to look at the dolls and costumes in the room. Since the
space was shared, security was limited to a single space. OTOH, we had
to borrow/rent stanchions (uprights with rope) to keep people from
wandering too close to costumes on display. Several of the people who
loaned costumes for exhibit required this, and were fairly unhappy until
I assured them that we would have protection for the space. Also of note
(while I’m thinking about it), we had to insure the space as well, to
get some of the costumes we did for display.

2. At CCXV, the dolls were in their own separate room from both the
dealers and the exhibits. The dealer area was in Versailles, off the
main lobby. The dealer space was very tight, and had to be redrawn at
the absolute last minute, because we didn’t have the firecode
information available when the first dealer room coordinator drew out
the plan. I recall that it took three tries for an equitable layout that
didn’t block essential doors in the room. I don’t recall comments
concerning the doll space. I do know that the space was way
underutilized.

Timeless Textiles was indeed there, and did a bang-up job of sales. We
sold space on a first come-first served basis, and I marketed the space
very heavily after our original coordinator bailed out. There was only
one issue with set-up location inside the room (making sure similar
goods weren’t sitting right next to each other). Security slept in the
room overnight. The doll contest room was locked each night, and the
entire program floor, which was only available by elevator, was also
locked off in the evening, but also (I think) had security sleeping
over.

I think we had a couple of dealers who were interested in selling
weapons (not exactly costume), and I don’t know how they did after all
that. I can honestly say that I didn’t spend much time in the dealer
area after everyone got set up (I delegated that responsibility as soon
as I could), until Monday, and then only after I got mad during the
annual meeting.

3. Were I to do it again, I would strongly recommend the first come,
first served method for selecting dealers, for one real good reason: A
dealer in the hand is worth a considerable amount of money, especially
if the cost of tables is part of how you’re paying for the space.

We were supposed to have several other rooms set aside for “corporate
sponsors” to have all to themselves. The theory was that we could get
someone like Bernina, or a pattern company, to display in that single,
exclusive, room. They could bring as much as they wanted to display, and
do whatever they wanted in the room. For the privilege, they were paying
an extra amount. I’d have to dig through my pre-con paperwork to
remember exactly what we wanted to get for that privilege, but $300-400
seems like the right figure. I believe the tables were $125 each, or
something similar.

I don’t recall if we were successful in pushing the sponsor space. I
still need to boil down the data from the con paperwork to publish on
the site, and that’s going to wait a little. I recall that it wasn’t
particularly useful, and that we wound up using one of the set-aside
rooms for something else in the long run.

4. Several things I might have done differently concerning CC21’s
layout:

a. I think I would have swapped the Registration and the Ops room, to
put registration a lot closer to the action. I might also have moved the
other activities being handled inside of Registration to the hallway
outside, on folding tables. In that room were: Information, Site
Selection, Masquerade Registration and the Costume-Con Archives spaces.
It created a real flow problem, especially at the height of masquerade
registration. Too much chaos!

And when the room closed permanently, early on Sunday because
registration was over, I had to move all my Archives stuff to the
counter on the other side of the hall from Ops anyway. Plus which, that
meant the room was unusable after registration closed.

Just another comment, concerning fan tables: I was also expecting Carl
to have a space for his ICG Archives, but I gather that this never
actually materialized. If it did, I never figured out where the display
ended up. And there wasn’t enough room in the registration space to
allow for it. There also wasn’t enough space for future CC con coms to
set up membership sales tables during the con.

b. I would probably have swapped one of the meeting spaces above ground
with the exhibits and doll contest, placing them a lot closer to the
dealer area. Workshops could easily have shifted into the room where the
exhibits were housed, and would not necessarily have suffered for it.

In general, the flow issue is a fairly big one. Keeping that flow
logical and cohesive makes it easier for people to find what they’re
looking for, especially if they’re new to CCs and already bewildered.

5. PROVIDE A MAP!!! In the Program Book! Please! With spaces identified,
clearly marked, so that people can find what they’re looking for. And
have signs printed well in advance of arrival, so that they can be
posted as soon as the con com arrive on the scene.

There’s more to come, but this is enough for now…..

Cheers,

Betsy


Betsy R. Delaney
Web Mistress at large

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Group: runacc Message: 206 From: Ricky & Karen Dick Date: 5/20/2003
Subject: Re: Space assignments and other things of note.

Betsy,

You’re right about CC-9.
I ran both in the room, exhibits and dealers.

Of course it was a pretty nifty trick that one of the dealers just happened
to be the exhibit person. YOU LOL!

so that made everybodys life easier.

That was the con where dealers that had never sent in money or anything,
just showed up, as they are/were staples of all Baltimore cons.
yikes.

I played shape shifter and through some quantum mechanics changed the size
and the shape of the room, but we got them in.
Trouble for me to be sure, but the con chairs sure liked me handing them
more money on opening day
Byron mentioned not combining things into one room so you can get the $$
for more tables, true, but it’s a matter of how much space is even
available to you.

well either way, it’s how many tables can you sell, and how can they pay
for other con space.
In columbia for sure, extra display space was limited , so merging the two
was the only way.

AT other hotels if space is cheap, then you can have three seperate rooms
if you want.

This goes to Trudy’s dilema.
Limited space, and the need for dealers, dolls, and exhibits.
and I hope somehow, everyone will know that she has this trouble, because
she was trying to keep the attendees costs down.
I mean, 18 dollars parking,if we were in the city, well for Canadians,
thats like a months pay or something.;-)

You just have to decide what percentage of available space you want for the
3 things.

once you decide on your dealers percentage ( whatever it is) you figure out
how many tables that will fit.
Thats life, thats all you got. Unless after the math, you decide to do less
something and more dealers cause cash flow is never a bad thing.

now, what is that space costing you.
lets say you put the dolls in the room for info and reg, makeing the
assumption that every body goes there at least once or twice over the
weekend, so it’ll be cool.

then your dealers and exhibits need to share space.

pretty simple.
take the cost of the room and divide it by the number of tables for dealers
you want to sell.
you need to charge that much or more.

now, you can be nice and throw in a reg with it to take the sting out if
you want, but you don’t have to.
This is supply and demand. they want to come, they pay.

If you find an extra area you want to use for a special dealer. I have no
problem with that.
just be sure to charge them at least what the hotel wants from you.

so they want 500.00 for the weekend for the old cafe space.
Alteryears needs to pay at least that.
they could get away with only paying that, cause it’s off the beaten track,
no one was going to use it anyway, etc… instead of my usual rule of pay
double what the space cost.

On the other hand, I wonder with booths and tables what displays or dolls
would be like in there……..

The tough thing about dealers room is this,

How do we balance the need and knowledge that they and we are a business,
and tough decisions need to be made on a worth it financially basis, with
the other side, how much of the dealers being there is us as a con com
doing a service to our attendees.

Thats where it gets tricky, and thats where the supply and demand thing
needs to be addressed again.
Henry and Kym had too many people for the availible space. so they didn’t
take the action figure people.

COOL!

>

but let me tell you, if I go into a hotel, and I have so much space I can’t
fill it, it’s gonna get filled with whomever has the check book.
I would never pick action figures over fabric, but if I had a huge empty
second ballroom for dealers for some reason?
well, anybody can come and take their chances, and I can use that extra
cash to fill the con suite or something.

Ricky

At 06:29 PM 5/20/2003 -0400, you wrote:

>Some general thoughts on space allotments, including Dealer areas and
>exhibits…
>
>1. At CC9, not only were the exhibits in the dealer room, but so were
>the dolls. Dealers were in the perimiter, and exhibits took up the
>center of the room. Ricky, am I remembering correctly that you were
>involved in the dealer room then?
>
>I was a dealer at the time, and had a table or two. I was also the
>exhibit coordinator. I recall (again, perhaps incorrectly) that there
>wasn’t a flow issue, since the dealer space was sufficiently big enough,
>for people to look at the dolls and costumes in the room. Since the
>space was shared, security was limited to a single space. OTOH, we had
>to borrow/rent stanchions (uprights with rope) to keep people from
>wandering too close to costumes on display. Several of the people who
>loaned costumes for exhibit required this, and were fairly unhappy until
>I assured them that we would have protection for the space. Also of note
>(while I’m thinking about it), we had to insure the space as well, to
>get some of the costumes we did for display.
>
>2. At CCXV, the dolls were in their own separate room from both the
>dealers and the exhibits. The dealer area was in Versailles, off the
>main lobby. The dealer space was very tight, and had to be redrawn at
>the absolute last minute, because we didn’t have the firecode
>information available when the first dealer room coordinator drew out
>the plan. I recall that it took three tries for an equitable layout that
>didn’t block essential doors in the room. I don’t recall comments
>concerning the doll space. I do know that the space was way
>underutilized.
>
>Timeless Textiles was indeed there, and did a bang-up job of sales. We
>sold space on a first come-first served basis, and I marketed the space
>very heavily after our original coordinator bailed out. There was only
>one issue with set-up location inside the room (making sure similar
>goods weren’t sitting right next to each other). Security slept in the
>room overnight. The doll contest room was locked each night, and the
>entire program floor, which was only available by elevator, was also
>locked off in the evening, but also (I think) had security sleeping
>over.
>
>I think we had a couple of dealers who were interested in selling
>weapons (not exactly costume), and I don’t know how they did after all
>that. I can honestly say that I didn’t spend much time in the dealer
>area after everyone got set up (I delegated that responsibility as soon
>as I could), until Monday, and then only after I got mad during the
>annual meeting.
>
>3. Were I to do it again, I would strongly recommend the first come,
>first served method for selecting dealers, for one real good reason: A
>dealer in the hand is worth a considerable amount of money, especially
>if the cost of tables is part of how you’re paying for the space.
>
>We were supposed to have several other rooms set aside for “corporate
>sponsors” to have all to themselves. The theory was that we could get
>someone like Bernina, or a pattern company, to display in that single,
>exclusive, room. They could bring as much as they wanted to display, and
>do whatever they wanted in the room. For the privilege, they were paying
>an extra amount. I’d have to dig through my pre-con paperwork to
>remember exactly what we wanted to get for that privilege, but $300-400
>seems like the right figure. I believe the tables were $125 each, or
>something similar.
>
>I don’t recall if we were successful in pushing the sponsor space. I
>still need to boil down the data from the con paperwork to publish on
>the site, and that’s going to wait a little. I recall that it wasn’t
>particularly useful, and that we wound up using one of the set-aside
>rooms for something else in the long run.
>
>4. Several things I might have done differently concerning CC21’s
>layout:
>
> a. I think I would have swapped the Registration and the Ops room, to
>put registration a lot closer to the action. I might also have moved the
>other activities being handled inside of Registration to the hallway
>outside, on folding tables. In that room were: Information, Site
>Selection, Masquerade Registration and the Costume-Con Archives spaces.
>It created a real flow problem, especially at the height of masquerade
>registration. Too much chaos!
>
>And when the room closed permanently, early on Sunday because
>registration was over, I had to move all my Archives stuff to the
>counter on the other side of the hall from Ops anyway. Plus which, that
>meant the room was unusable after registration closed.
>
>Just another comment, concerning fan tables: I was also expecting Carl
>to have a space for his ICG Archives, but I gather that this never
>actually materialized. If it did, I never figured out where the display
>ended up. And there wasn’t enough room in the registration space to
>allow for it. There also wasn’t enough space for future CC con coms to
>set up membership sales tables during the con.
>
> b. I would probably have swapped one of the meeting spaces above
> ground
>with the exhibits and doll contest, placing them a lot closer to the
>dealer area. Workshops could easily have shifted into the room where the
>exhibits were housed, and would not necessarily have suffered for it.
>
>
>In general, the flow issue is a fairly big one. Keeping that flow
>logical and cohesive makes it easier for people to find what they’re
>looking for, especially if they’re new to CCs and already bewildered.
>
>5. PROVIDE A MAP!!! In the Program Book! Please! With spaces identified,
>clearly marked, so that people can find what they’re looking for. And
>have signs printed well in advance of arrival, so that they can be
>posted as soon as the con com arrive on the scene.
>
>There’s more to come, but this is enough for now…..
>
>Cheers,
>
>Betsy
>
>–
>Betsy R. Delaney
>Web Mistress at large
>
>************************************************************************
> http://www.WebInvent.com/ * http://www.hawkeswood.com/
> http://www.Costume-Con.org/ * http://www.sickpups.org/
> http://www.SchoolWithoutWalls.org/
>************************************************************************
>
>
>View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>runacc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

 

Group: runacc Message: 207 From: Byron Connell Date: 5/20/2003
Subject: Re: Exhibits/Dealers (was Re: Dealers Room)

Except to say what you just did about the alternate effects.

Byron

—– Original Message —–
From: Andrew Trembley
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, May 19, 2003 10:57 PM
Subject: [runacc] Exhibits/Dealers (was Re: Dealers Room)

If there’s tons of space, putting exhibits in the same room as dealers
can increase traffic through exhibits, and that’s a good thing. If
space is tight, putting exhibits in the same room as dealers will
result in confusion and a traffic jam, which is a bad thing.

I don’t think this is something we can answer in anything more than the
vaguest terms in our CC Runner’s Guide.


andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 

Group: runacc Message: 208 From: Elaine Mami Date: 5/20/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers’ Room

I didn’t like it. Granted, we had quality dealers, but I would rather not
let the selection of which dealers to sell space to be open for discussion
by the whole staff. Surely there must be a better way.

I’ve never been involved in running a dealers’ room (and don’t want to
volunteer!) so I have no suggestions. Sorry. However, Devra (Poison Pen
Press) has run the Lunacon dealers’ room for a while now, and might be
willing to share some of her knowledge with us.

Elaine

>
> As a self-employed businessperson (as most dealers are), money is always
> tight. There was NO WAY I was going to pay for dealer space in advance and
> then wait *months* for the committee to decide if I actually could vend at
> the con or not.
>
> Anybody else have thoughts on a “juried” vs. “first come, first served”
> approach?

 

Group: runacc Message: 209 From: Trudy Leonard Date: 5/20/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers’ Room

Gee, I never considered “jury-ing” the dealers room. I just want to have
dealers. I might warn someone if they are carrying the same sort of stuff as
someone that I already have and let them decide if they still want to come,
but, at this point, I don’t think that I’d turn someone down. Our natural
limiter will be space.

Trudy

>From: Ricky & Karen Dick <castleb@pulsenet.com>
>Reply-To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
>To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [runacc] Dealers’ Room
>Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 11:45:26 -0400
>
>The only thing I didn’t like about the CC-21 dealer’s room took place
>before the con: the “juried” method of selecting dealers.
>
>As a self-employed businessperson (as most dealers are), money is always
>tight. There was NO WAY I was going to pay for dealer space in advance and
>then wait *months* for the committee to decide if I actually could vend at
>the con or not.
>
>Anybody else have thoughts on a “juried” vs. “first come, first served”
>approach?
>
>–Karen
>
>At 11:33 AM 5/20/2003 -0400, you wrote:
> >Hello!
> > I got this response from Kyym Kimple, the guy who ran our
>Dealers’
> >Room at CC21.
> > Henry Osier
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
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Group: runacc Message: 210 From: Bruce & Nora Mai Date: 5/21/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers’ Room — back to Janet
Some good info here, and thanks to Henry /Kyym for the feedback. Does
anyone
else have any other thoughts reagarding fairness, Janet, space, etc.? And
just out of curiosity, are there any other large dealers in the same league
with Janet?

Bruce

 

Group: runacc Message: 211 From: Martin Gear Date: 5/21/2003
Subject: Re: Space assignments and other things of note.
FWIIW –
My rule of thumb has been the same as Ricky’s i.e. if someone is going
to be in a position to make money then the charge should be twice the
actual space cost so that they can help to pay for the money pit that is
a fan run con. For profit cons like Creations and DragonCon, charge
quite a bit more both for memberships and for dealers.

I seem to recall that for CC-3 the upper ballroom was about half dealer
tables and half exhibits so the table cost was the room rental divided
by the number of tables. I’m sure that someone will correct me if I am
not remembering correctly.

^M^

 

Group: runacc Message: 212 From: Tina Connell Date: 5/21/2003
Subject: Newbies
I tried sending this as an attachmentb but Yahoo stripped it off. I think my second attempt may have only gone to Les, in response to his note. Let’s try it again.

This is somewhat dated, at least the info regarding sound media for presentations, and also doesn’t cover a lot of things, but I was trying, at CC18, to give a quick overview of the costume competition situation that might help a real newbie. At this year’s CC, there were a couple of total novices in the Green Room who were getting serious cold feet at the idea of going on stage (they had nice costumes). I especially tried to address the myth of the stand-offish big-shot costumer (as in, they’re not stuck up, they’re simply jet lagged, hungry and nervous about their presentation later in the con). It was also necessary to get it onto a single piece of paper – “War & Peace” would just scare them off. Frankly, a nice little handbook for newbies would be a nice thing to have as a handout not just at CC’s, but also at the Masq. sign-up desk at other cons. Not just the stuff below, but also a brief and not overly technical description of the tech side of things. Because I primarily do Green Room, I’m a bit vague on Stage Right/Stage Left and lighting options other than Fred, myself (and “Fred” should be explained as well, both the tech “Fred” and “The Ambassador from the planet Fred”). The more accessible we make things, the more new blood we are apt to attract.

Tina

Frequently Asked Questions: A brief primer for the new (and not-so-new) costumer

I’m new to this. I feel really nervous about…

… appearing in costume on stage.

A: We all had to start sometime. Yes, it can be scary going up on stage the first few times. Probably, every person you see up there felt that way at first (some of them who have been doing costumes for years still feel that way), but try to remember that you’re among friends at this convention.

… talking to these strangers in costume, talking to experienced costumers who may look down on me as a newbie, etc.

A: Costume fans are one of the friendliest groups of people around. Most of them love to talk to other people about costuming and costumes, especially their own costumes. On the other hand, don’t decide that someone is terminally stuck-up if they don’t want to talk to you just then: they may be on a serious sleep deficit, need caffeine or food desperately, be jet-lagged and not feeling very functional, or they may just be really, seriously, nervous about their presentation a bit later in the con and have a major set of butterflies distracting them. Just as you sometimes don’t feel like talking to people, you may also be catching the other person at a bad time.

… competing against more experienced costumers.

A: This is why the Division system was created. What is the Division system, you may ask? It is a means of separating the new or inexperienced costumers from the more experienced costumers, for purposes of judging. The judges (and audience) will recognize that a Novice costumer is likely to have less experience, and (in some cases) less well honed skills than a Journeyman, Craftsman, or Master costumer. Novices are judged in relation to other Novices, Journeymen in relation to Journeymen, and so forth. A Novice costume is not an inferior costume — on a number of occasions, Novice costumes have won Best In Show, over costumes made and presented by experienced Masters.

What do all of these things regarding the Masquerades/Competitions mean?

What is the tech (technical) rehearsal and why do I have to go to it?:

A: The tech rehearsal is very important to you. At many larger conventions, and definitely at WorldCon or Costume-Con, it is required for all entrants. It ensures that you actually see the stage you will be appearing on. Hopefully, you will also Awalk@ the stage, as well. If you have a “feel” for the space you will have available, your presentation will look better, and you are less likely to fall off the front, back or side of the stage — this is also a safety factor.

The “tech” crew really want to make you look good on stage. Unfortunately, this is harder if they have no idea what you have in mind. By going to the tech rehearsal, you will have a chance to explain to them what you want to do in terms of sound (if you brought a sound effects tape), lighting, and any other special effects they may have available. They may even make suggestions that could make your costume or presentation look better.

The MC (Master of Ceremonies/Narrator), who will be announcing your costume, will also be there. You will have a chance to talk to him or her about your presentation. If your costume introduction text has any exotic words in it, you should plan to spell them out phonetically for the MC. Any text you want read should be CLEARLY printed or typed.

Above all, no matter how much you want to surprise the audience and your fellow costumers, never, ever, surprise the masquerade director. He or she will not divulge anything about your planned presentation, but the director needs to know about anything that may be unusual or potentially unsafe. This includes things like flash powder, smoke bombs, fog machines, stuff you plan to throw around on the stage, etc., as well as any unusual props (accessories) or weapons, or unusual moves (such as leaping off the stage). Note: throwing objects out at the judges and audience is a no-no!

What is the Green Room?

A: The Green Room is the backstage area where the contestants gather as they prepare to go on stage. Check-in time usually is at least two hours before the expected curtain time. The costumers can finish getting into their costumes (if they haven=t already done so in their rooms), test their props one last time, and maybe put on or touch up their makeup. Contestants should not bring friends or family members (especially children) backstage, unless they are also going to be on stage B the Green Room is chaotic enough as it is without non-contestants milling about! Contestants are grouped in “dens,” with a Den Mom or Den Dad, who helps the costumers in his or her group. This may include helping you get into your costume, trying to calm jittery nerves, fetching water/snacks for you if your costume is bulky or awkward to get around in, and generally doing his/her best to make sure you are ready to go on stage and look great! The Green Room Manager is the overall backstage person who keeps the chaos from getting out of hand. He or she keeps track of which costumes have checked in (or not checked in yet), and makes sure that the “dens” go up on stage in the proper sequence.

Also customary in the Green Room (at least at larger conventions) is a Repair Table. It offers basic equipment to effect repairs to a costume which has developed problems. It is not there for the purpose of building/assembling/creating your costume — it is only for repairs. Typically, the repair table offers needles, threads of various colors, safety pins, bobby pins, hot glue guns, small hand tools such as pliers, adhesives, tapes, string and wire, etc., and may also include a makeup mirror and some basic makeup repair materials (again, this is for repairs or touch-ups, not to create a full makeup job). For

(Over ¸ ¸)

health/sanitary reasons, you should plan to bring your own special colors of lipstick and eye makeup. Sometimes the repair table person will have some experience with stage makeup, but you cannot rely upon this for sure. Please note: the equipment and supplies on the repair table are usually the personal property of the person at the repair table, who has kindly donated the use of them to the con; you should make every effort to return tools, etc. when you are finished using them.

Stage Aninjas@ will help you get on and off of the stage safely. If you hear someone out there in the dark say ASTOP!@, or feel a slap on your leg or ankle as you are about to leave the stage, you should stop. It probably means that you aren=t lined up for the stairs and were about to fall off the stage, because the lights were in your eyes. When you walk the stage during tech rehearsal, check to see about how many steps you can take forward (or backward) safely.

What is Workmanship Judging? Do I have to be judged for Workmanship?

A: The workmanship judge does exactly that. He or she gets “up close and personal,” looking at the special details, such as applique, beadwork, leather or metalwork, special design and construction of interest, and the many other facets that comprise superior workmanship on a costume. You do not have to present yourself to the workmanship judge. However, if there is some aspect of your costume that you feel exhibits special workmanship or ingenuity on your part, this is your opportunity to have it recognized. You do not need to have your entire costume judged for workmanship — you may elect to have just a tiny facet of your costume judged — a beaded bodice, a lovingly-hand-hammered breastplate, the cleverly designed mechanism you invented to make your wings open and close, or the gloves or shoes you made from scratch. If your costume is held together with spit and baling wire, don’t even consider it! If there are bits of detail you are really proud of, you definitely should give workmanship judging serious consideration.

What should I do about a sound track?

A: Hopefully, you already gave this some thought before you arrived at the con. The perfect bit of music can help to “make” a so-so costume, just as a poor choice of music can be jarring and may detract from an otherwise great presentation. Preferably, your sound should be on tape, not CD, for ease of cueing. It should not be recorded in “stereo” (right side different from left side), as the sound system available may not be able to play both Atracks@ — you might end up with a vital bit of your sound un-played. It should be clearly labeled with your name and your costume’s title. It should also be labeled “right side” and “wrong side”, so the tech knows which side of the tape has your sound on — there=s nothing worse than going out on stage expecting music or voice-over, only to find that your tape got put in upside down because of poor labeling. (The easiest way to avoid this is to record your sound on both sides of the tape.) The tape you hand in to the masquerade director should be already cued-up (on the Aright@ side) to the point at which you want it to start. It is best to start with a clean tape, rather than taping over an old one (which could lead to embarrassing bits of inappropriate sound-track). Put on it just what you need for your presentation, rather than an entire song/piece of music, to also ensure that what you want will be played. If your tape is properly labeled, it should be easy to get it back to you after the masquerade. If you didn’t bring a tape with you, sometimes “tech” can help you out — frequently, they have a variety of suitable sound bits that they can play, if you work with them (see “Tech Rehearsal,” above).

What’s all this about “Presentation”?

A: How you look and move on stage helps you show your costume to the audience and judges, and helps to convey the costume=s mood or story. Yes, you can just walk on stage, and then walk off the other side, but this won=t show off the work you put into your costume (see also, Tech Rehearsal – walking the stage). Your movements on stage should be planned to let the judges and audience see the back of the costume as well as the front, and show off any special decoration or details. At the very least, plan to move in a circle on stage, to show the back and sides of your costume as well as the front. Stay in character: if you’re a warrior, stomp; if you’re a princess, be regal; if you=re a cat, slink and prowl. Your movements will set the tone of your costume. Think of it as Amethod acting.@ One more thing — remember that the judges are sitting with their eyes at about the level of your ankles or knees B don=t forget to hem your costume and wear appropriate footgear.

Why is there a time limit on stage?

A: It may not seem like it, but when you=re up there on stage, a minute is a LOOONNNGGG time! Unless you have a sizable group, it only takes half or three-quarters of a minute to do a little Astage business@ and go off. The longer you stay on stage, the better a Astory@ you should have your costume and presentation tell; if you bore the audience/judges, you lose them. Dances or martial arts displays that go on forever are booorrring! One of the sayings in costume fandom is Ashort is good; funny is better; short and funny is best.@ While that isn=t always the case (there are plenty of serious costumes), it does express the general idea.

I just saw someone walk up to another costumer and say AI hate you!!@ That doesn=t sound very friendly to me!

A: It may seem strange, but that phrase is one of the ultimate accolades in costume fandom, along with AYou=re despicable!!@ What it really means is AYou=ve got a killer costume that I can=t possibly win against, and I should be jealous, but it=s SO great that I love it!@ Costumers enjoy and respect a great costume and great workmanship, even when it=s not their own B that=s what this is all about!

NOW, most important of all, go out and have FUN!!! Oh, and don=t forget to eat something and get some sleep!!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 

Group: runacc Message: 213 From: Elaine Mami Date: 5/21/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers’ Room — back to Janet

I would imagine that the most likely dealers in the “large space needed”
category would be fabric dealers. Especially if they are going to cut
fabric.

Elaine

> just out of curiosity, are there any other large dealers in the same

league

> with Janet?
>

 

Group: runacc Message: 214 From: Andrew Trembley Date: 5/21/2003
Subject: Re: Newbies
Great document, Tina. Going back to Allison’s letter (seem to be
referencing her a lot these days) we’re missing something important at
the beginning.

“What is a Masquerade?”

It’s probably not what you think. It’s not a masked ball or costume
ball. It’s an opportunity to present your costume and compete for
awards. It’s an opportunity to watch others present costumes.

Masquerades, as we know them, are born out of a long history of
costuming at science fiction conventions, and have evolved greatly over
the last few decades. You may participate as an audience member, an
entrant, or volunteer to be a member of the crew.

<rules> (basically, instructions to find them and read them)

<presentation info>
<styles>
<music>
<time limit>

<judging info>
<divisions>
<workmanship>

<at-con requirements and services>
<registration>
<tech rehearsal>
<green room>
<stage crew>


andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen
http://www.bovil.com/
“It’s not pink; it’s peach-colored. Pink is tacky.” –Manfred Pfirsich
Marie Rommel

 

Group: runacc Message: 215 From: Elaine Mami Date: 5/21/2003
Subject: Re: Newbies
Really good, Tina, and not as outdated as you think. Very little work will
bring it up-to-date.

Elaine

 

Group: runacc Message: 216 From: Byron Connell Date: 5/21/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers’ Room — back to Janet

While they’re not necessarily in the same league as AlterYears, most dealers in fabric need a lot of space by virtue of the nature of their wares. Fabric dealers would seem to be prime candidates for a CC dealers’ room.

Byron

—– Original Message —–
From: Bruce & Nora Mai
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2003 11:41 PM
Subject: Re: [runacc] Dealers’ Room — back to Janet

Some good info here, and thanks to Henry /Kyym for the feedback. Does
anyone
else have any other thoughts reagarding fairness, Janet, space, etc.? And
just out of curiosity, are there any other large dealers in the same league
with Janet?

Bruce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 

Group: runacc Message: 217 From: Cliff and Eileen Date: 5/22/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers Room
As a convention attendee, I much prefer to see all the dealers in one
location.

On the issue of having Alter Years take up half the space, it was not an
issue for the customers, but I did get the impression at CC21 that some of
the dealers were grumbling. (I think in fact Janet was in competition with
almost everyone in the other room.)

This might seem less pronounced if Alter Years is as far away from the other
dealers as Trudy is suggesting. They may seem like a different feature
entirely. The real test will be whether or not it becomes difficult to
convince other dealers to come in future years if they feel Alter Years’
presence will make it financially not worth their trip.

CC19 had intentionally tried to balance the dealers’ room by having only one
of each type of dealer. The room was not “juried” but it was a case of
“first come” for each type of vendor, due to space limitations. (I think
this system would have worked if the dealers’ room had not been hit by a
black hole of bad luck. We actually had almost twice as many dealers pull
out due to personal or professional disasters than we had present in the
final dealers’ room.)

Therefore we moved the dolls into that room to fill the space, although that
had not originally been the intended home for them. In the end we had a
much larger doll competition than expected so the original space would have
been inadequate. I believe in our case the combination worked both to show
off the doll competition and to draw customers into the room. It only
worked though because we had a big enough room (and few enough remaining
dealers) to accommodate both without crowding.

Eileen

 

Group: runacc Message: 218 From: Cliff and Eileen Date: 5/22/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers Room
Timeless Textiles were one of the dealers who had to back out of CC19. (My
memory is hazy on this one but I think that their disaster was a theft from
their warehouse.) In general they seem eager to do CC’s, and were not even
afraid of crossing the border with their stock.

Local fabric stores, who are not used to a CC, are not very willing to
commit a staffperson to a weekend convention, even less than their stock.

Eileen

—–Original Message—–
From: Ricky & Karen Dick [mailto:castleb@pulsenet.com]

CCXV had Timeless Textiles (also somebody with vintage “ethnic” textiles)
and I think they did a boffo business.

Obviously, fabric can take up a LOT of space in a very short time, and
local fabric stores may not be keen on packing up their inventory to schlep
to a con. But fabric always does well.

–Karen

 

Group: runacc Message: 219 From: Betsy Delaney Date: 5/22/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers Room

I think Timeless Textiles did such a bang-up business at CCXV that
they’ve tried to make a point of showing up when they could. OTOH, I’m
not sure if they’re still in business. Their web site went down last
year, and I haven’t checked to see if they’re back again.

Fabric (especially unusual stuff or natural fiber stuff) generally sells
well. Put that with a trim dealer and Janet’s stuff, and you’ve got
costume on the hoof, right there at the source of the inspiration.

Less successful accessories include ready-made costumes. Better stuff:
trims, notions and findings.

YMMV.

Betsy

Cliff and Eileen wrote:

>
> Timeless Textiles were one of the dealers who had to back out of CC19. (My
> memory is hazy on this one but I think that their disaster was a theft from
> their warehouse.) In general they seem eager to do CC’s, and were not even
> afraid of crossing the border with their stock.
>
> Local fabric stores, who are not used to a CC, are not very willing to
> commit a staffperson to a weekend convention, even less than their stock.
>
> Eileen


Betsy R. Delaney
Web Mistress at large

************************************************************************
http://www.WebInvent.com/ * http://www.hawkeswood.com/
http://www.Costume-Con.org/ * http://www.sickpups.org/
http://www.SchoolWithoutWalls.org/
************************************************************************

 

Group: runacc Message: 220 From: Andrew Trembley Date: 5/22/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers Room

On Thursday, May 22, 2003, at 03:15 PM, Betsy Delaney wrote:

> Fabric (especially unusual stuff or natural fiber stuff) generally
> sells
> well. Put that with a trim dealer and Janet’s stuff, and you’ve got
> costume on the hoof, right there at the source of the inspiration.

So the sick thing to do would be to ask the dealers if they would be
willing to spend an extra $10/table to throw into an award pot, the
contest being to make a costume entirely at the con only from materials
bought in the dealer’s room.

Assuming the dealers’ room has enough tables and dealers to support
this sort of thing.

andy


Andy Trembley, Bull-in-Drag
The Bovine Illuminati (It’s the Cows, Inc.)
http://www.bovil.com/
Moo!

 

Group: runacc Message: 221 From: Ricky & Karen Dick Date: 5/22/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers Room

At 06:15 PM 5/22/2003 -0400, you wrote:

>I think Timeless Textiles did such a bang-up business at CCXV that
>they’ve tried to make a point of showing up when they could. OTOH, I’m
>not sure if they’re still in business. Their web site went down last
>year, and I haven’t checked to see if they’re back again.

If they aren’t, a former employee, Brad Dunn, gets his stock from the same
mills and would probably be happy to deal at cons if they don’t conflict
with his schedule. He deals every year at Pennsic and is very reliable
(this after we had MAJOR problems with mail delivery from TT–they were
fine at cons, but trying to mailorder stuff from them was a nightmare).

I have his address and phone # if any concoms are interested.

>Less successful accessories include ready-made costumes. Better stuff:
>trims, notions and findings.

But people WILL buy accessories if they are *accessories* and not full
costumes. Jewelry, greaves/bracers, headbands, corsets, etc. Impulse items
that are cool, but not a whole costume and not necessarily things they
would make for themselves.

–Karen

 

Group: runacc Message: 222 From: Les Roth Date: 5/22/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers Room

Betsy,

On Thursday, May 22, 2003, at 05:15 PM, Betsy Delaney wrote:

> I think Timeless Textiles did such a bang-up business at CCXV that
> they’ve tried to make a point of showing up when they could. OTOH, I’m
> not sure if they’re still in business. Their web site went down last
> year, and I haven’t checked to see if they’re back again.
>

According to the website at :
http://www.houseofanoria.com/Timeless_Fabrics.htm

“House Of Anoria Has Joined Forces With Timeless Fabrics – aka Timeless
Textiles & The Fabric Finders For ALL your costuming needs”

I don’t know if it’s the same people, but their stock looks like it
might be.

Les

Live, never to be ashamed if everything you do is published around the
world. Even if what is published is not true. — Richard Bach

 

Group: runacc Message: 223 From: Bruce & Nora Mai Date: 5/22/2003
Subject: Re: Newbies stuff from Tina

I’ll hav eto see if I can dig up a copy of the first-timers doc I created.
Might be useful to throw this into a mix.

Bruce

—– Original Message —–
From: “Tina Connell” <cvconnel@nycap.rr.com>
To: <runacc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2003 4:44 PM
Subject: [runacc] Newbies

I tried sending this as an attachmentb but Yahoo stripped it off. I think
my second attempt may have only gone to Les, in response to his note. Let’s
try it again.

 

Group: runacc Message: 224 From: Tina Connell Date: 5/23/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers Room

Oooo! That’s a neat idea. Most of the dealers would like it, because it would encourage sales. Enough costumers should like it for it to work – there’s always somebody who decided not to make a costume for “this year”, or whose costume wasn’t ready or someone in their group couldn’t make it. When would they display them/be judged? Since they’d need a reasonable amount of time, perhaps adjacent to the last otherwise-scheduled competition (usually the Historical), or the Folio, since (unlike this year) that’s usually a bit sparse for entries? You would need to have at least one dealer who had fabric or some equivalent (leather, plastic, whatever), though now that I think about it, it shouldn’t be too difficult (if somewhat on the pricey side) to make something completely out of trims.

Is anyone keeping a side-list of suggested program items (such as this) that could be included in an appendix to “How to Run a CC”?

Tina

—– Original Message —–
From: Andrew Trembley
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2003 6:59 PM
Subject: Re: [runacc] Dealers Room

On Thursday, May 22, 2003, at 03:15 PM, Betsy Delaney wrote:
> Fabric (especially unusual stuff or natural fiber stuff) generally
> sells
> well. Put that with a trim dealer and Janet’s stuff, and you’ve got
> costume on the hoof, right there at the source of the inspiration.

So the sick thing to do would be to ask the dealers if they would be
willing to spend an extra $10/table to throw into an award pot, the
contest being to make a costume entirely at the con only from materials
bought in the dealer’s room.

Assuming the dealers’ room has enough tables and dealers to support
this sort of thing.

andy


Andy Trembley, Bull-in-Drag
The Bovine Illuminati (It’s the Cows, Inc.)
http://www.bovil.com/
Moo!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 

Group: runacc Message: 225 From: Betsy Delaney Date: 5/23/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers Room and discussion progress

I’m not throwing out any of the messages we’re passing around, but I’m
not compiling anything yet.

I’m down to CC17 and CC19, plus compiling the awards and participant
lists for CC20 and 21. As soon as I’m done (and CC19 is being worked on
right now), I’m going to upload the new site. Then I need to go through
the links page and dump the cobwebs (Thanks, Les, for the new link), at
which point I can concentrate some time on drafting text for the
document.

There has been a TON of good discussion on this list so far. I’m
thankful that people are participating so well and exchanging such
useful information. Now, we need to start drafting stuff for the
document.

Tina, that FAQ is terrific!

There’s already a Dealer doc up on the draft. Would someone care to
compile the comments and suggestions and edit the existing content?

Thanks!

Betsy

Tina Connell wrote:

>
> Is anyone keeping a side-list of suggested program items (such as this) that could be included in an appendix to “How to Run a CC”?
>
> Tina


Betsy R. Delaney
Web Mistress at large

************************************************************************
http://www.WebInvent.com/ * http://www.hawkeswood.com/
http://www.Costume-Con.org/ * http://www.sickpups.org/
http://www.SchoolWithoutWalls.org/
************************************************************************

 

Group: runacc Message: 226 From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger Date: 5/25/2003
Subject: photography
Another issue to address is photography. Sandy and I just spent an
inordinate amount of time ordering photographs from the official
photographer from CC21. It quite literally took us 3 days to do. The photos
were arranged by photographer, not by costume and covered 14 pages on the
website. What we had to do was print all 14 pages of thumbnails, mark the
back of each thumbnail with the page number, then cut them out and group
them by costume so we could select which shots we wanted.

The cost, as well, was prohibitive to most people. We’re lucky to be flush
enough to drop over $300 on a set with at least one view of each
competition costume. Most aren’t.

We did, by the way, purchase the CD with all the photos. We got it awhile
ago and put it in to see if it would help us choose the best shots. It was
arranged as an Adobe PDF slide show, which also requires that you have the
Adobe Image Player software installed. Granted, it’s free, but if you
don’t want to (or can’t) download new software, you’re SOL. As far as we
can tell, there is no way to select individual shots. You can only play the
slide show. So the photos only stay on the screen for a short time. You can
only start at the beginning. And you can only stop by pressing CNTL-ALT-DEL.

It should be strongly recommended in the future that photography’s goals are

1. A production of archival material easily available for storage and access

2. Availability of photographs for the attendees at a reasonable cost
(reasonable is ~$1.00-1.50 per 4×6 print)

3. Availability of a portfolio of all photographs taken for a cost
significantly less than (price per single print) x (number of total shots)

Similar issues involve video though we haven’t had such a situation with
video yet thanks to folks like Carl, Rusty Dawe and others.

Pierre

“Those Who Fail To Learn History
Are Doomed To Repeat It;
Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly–
Why They Are Simply Doomed.”

Achemdro’hm
“The Illusion of Historical Fact”
— C.Y. 4971

Andromeda

 

Group: runacc Message: 227 From: Bruce & Nora Mai Date: 5/26/2003
Subject: Re: photography

Ahh, a subject I must address.
The photographers at CC21 were quite good and thorough but their prices and
ordering system were less than ideal.
I agree with all of Pierre’s points.
Personally we haven’t actually ordered any photos yet (although I intend to
order at least a few) because we discovered a little quirk in the pricing on
the site.
I sent the following message to Henry on May 21st (haven’t heard back yet
but it is the holiday weekend).

>The Digital Focus link (provided by Glen) is actually DotPhoto.
>The prices on the actual link page are $2.50 per 4 x 6 but if you use the
>’contact us’ link it goes further onto the DotPhoto site where 4 x 6’s are
>only $.29 each.
>If you put something in the Cart it totals up at $2.50 per, but the sidebar
>still says $.29 each.
>So which is it? I think you really need to quiz these people because I

think

>many people will hesitate to order until this is a little clearer.

Nora
Also, we were told $2 each for a 4×6 at the con (which was bad enough) and
then it said $2.50 on the site. Blatant misrepresentation.

 

Group: runacc Message: 228 From: Trudy Leonard Date: 5/26/2003
Subject: Re: photography

Ken Warren is the official photographer for CC22. Having seen Ken’s
work at many other cons, I’ve always been pretty pleased with his work, and
unless he’s changed the way he does things, I think he wiil be closer to
your recommendations.

Trudy

>From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger <costumrs@radiks.net>
>Reply-To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
>To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [runacc] photography
>Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 09:05:50 -0500
>
>Another issue to address is photography. Sandy and I just spent an
>inordinate amount of time ordering photographs from the official
>photographer from CC21. It quite literally took us 3 days to do. The photos
>were arranged by photographer, not by costume and covered 14 pages on the
>website. What we had to do was print all 14 pages of thumbnails, mark the
>back of each thumbnail with the page number, then cut them out and group
>them by costume so we could select which shots we wanted.
>
>The cost, as well, was prohibitive to most people. We’re lucky to be flush
>enough to drop over $300 on a set with at least one view of each
>competition costume. Most aren’t.
>
>We did, by the way, purchase the CD with all the photos. We got it awhile
>ago and put it in to see if it would help us choose the best shots. It was
>arranged as an Adobe PDF slide show, which also requires that you have the
>Adobe Image Player software installed. Granted, it’s free, but if you
>don’t want to (or can’t) download new software, you’re SOL. As far as we
>can tell, there is no way to select individual shots. You can only play the
>slide show. So the photos only stay on the screen for a short time. You can
>only start at the beginning. And you can only stop by pressing
>CNTL-ALT-DEL.
>
>It should be strongly recommended in the future that photography’s goals
>are
>
>1. A production of archival material easily available for storage and
>access
>
>2. Availability of photographs for the attendees at a reasonable cost
>(reasonable is ~$1.00-1.50 per 4×6 print)
>
>3. Availability of a portfolio of all photographs taken for a cost
>significantly less than (price per single print) x (number of total shots)
>
>
>Similar issues involve video though we haven’t had such a situation with
>video yet thanks to folks like Carl, Rusty Dawe and others.
>
>
>Pierre
>
>
>
>”Those Who Fail To Learn History
>Are Doomed To Repeat It;
>Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly–
>Why They Are Simply Doomed.”
>
>Achemdro’hm
>”The Illusion of Historical Fact”
>– C.Y. 4971
>
>Andromeda
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus

 

Group: runacc Message: 229 From: Betsy Delaney Date: 5/27/2003
Subject: Re: photography – more comments

It’s my suggestion that whenever a relationship is established with a
“vendor” who is serving your con, you make a paper agreement with the
“vendor.” This includes video, photo or any other service you’re
eventually going to offer to your members.

I’ve got a version of the agreement I had with Ken Warren for the photo
package he offered buried somewhere in my paperwork for CCXV. I’ll need
to dig it up. We did something similar for video.

That way, you’re clear on what the service provider is going to give you
and what you’re going to have to pay for.

Things to consider when arranging for archival recording of events:

1. There are two archives and they are completely separate: The Pat and
Peggy Kennedy Memorial Archives (attached to the ICG), and the
Costume-Con Archives (maintained by me). In the past few years, I’ve
made a personal arrangement with each CC to provide a set of photos and
videos for the CC Archives. Until last year, I didn’t have a problem
with getting a complete set of photos (though the photos were not always
prints – CC19 or Greg Bradt donated a free CD-ROM of the photos).

2. There are more things that should be photographed than just the
Friday Night Social and the costume competitions. For CC17, 18 and 21, I
personally photographed the doll contest and exhibits. At CC19, the
dolls were photographed by Greg (I think). These things should also be
photographed for archival purposes. So should any other static
competitions. The need to have them photographed must be communicated to
the official photographer. Don’t make assumptions. There are no official
shots of the CCXV doll contest, and so there are no photos to go with
the competition list.

3. We had to spend an unanticipated amount of money to have our video
for CCXV edited by someone other than the videographer. We made the
dollar amount back in the sale of the videos, but what could have been
an additional income maker for future CCs instead became a
near-liability. Be sure that you’ve got the complete outline of costs
associated with producing anything out of your own CC’s pocket. If the
videographer is taking care of the whole thing then you have less to
worry about, but it’s still a good idea to get the expectations down in
writing.

4. I’ve also been promised a complete set of digital disks from all of
the photographs, separate from the disk they were sending to people who
ordered them. If worse comes to worst, I’ll be using the prints and
scanning them in. Not a lovely prospect. And if they’re so concerned
about copyright and copy protection, it could well be that the digital
disks won’t be of any use to me for the web site. It also needs to be
made clear to the photographers that the photos will be published, and
to be sure that rights to publish those photos have been allowed for
your conference and for the Archive site.

Regarding CC21: I’m still not clear on what I’m ultimately going to get.
I’ve purchased about a third of the complete set of photos available
online. (I agree completely that the method by which the costume shots
were displayed was completely unacceptable, but in talking to the
photographer, I’ve been told that it was the only way they could put up
the shots so fast.) Most of the photos are okay, but I had very little
time to make the decision on which photos I wanted. I’m still waiting
for reimbursement from the con com, though I’ve been told that it’s on
the way.

Betsy

Trudy Leonard wrote:

>
> Ken Warren is the official photographer for CC22. Having seen Ken’s
> work at many other cons, I’ve always been pretty pleased with his work, and
> unless he’s changed the way he does things, I think he wiil be closer to
> your recommendations.
>
> Trudy
>
> >From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger <costumrs@radiks.net>
> >Reply-To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> >To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: [runacc] photography
> >Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 09:05:50 -0500
> >
> >Another issue to address is photography. Sandy and I just spent an
> >inordinate amount of time ordering photographs from the official
> >photographer from CC21. It quite literally took us 3 days to do. The photos
> >were arranged by photographer, not by costume and covered 14 pages on the
> >website. What we had to do was print all 14 pages of thumbnails, mark the
> >back of each thumbnail with the page number, then cut them out and group
> >them by costume so we could select which shots we wanted.
> >
> >The cost, as well, was prohibitive to most people. We’re lucky to be flush
> >enough to drop over $300 on a set with at least one view of each
> >competition costume. Most aren’t.
> >
> >We did, by the way, purchase the CD with all the photos. We got it awhile
> >ago and put it in to see if it would help us choose the best shots. It was
> >arranged as an Adobe PDF slide show, which also requires that you have the
> >Adobe Image Player software installed. Granted, it’s free, but if you
> >don’t want to (or can’t) download new software, you’re SOL. As far as we
> >can tell, there is no way to select individual shots. You can only play the
> >slide show. So the photos only stay on the screen for a short time. You can
> >only start at the beginning. And you can only stop by pressing
> >CNTL-ALT-DEL.
> >
> >It should be strongly recommended in the future that photography’s goals
> >are
> >
> >1. A production of archival material easily available for storage and
> >access
> >
> >2. Availability of photographs for the attendees at a reasonable cost
> >(reasonable is ~$1.00-1.50 per 4×6 print)
> >
> >3. Availability of a portfolio of all photographs taken for a cost
> >significantly less than (price per single print) x (number of total shots)
> >
> >
> >Similar issues involve video though we haven’t had such a situation with
> >video yet thanks to folks like Carl, Rusty Dawe and others.
> >
> >
> >Pierre
> >
> >
> >
> >”Those Who Fail To Learn History
> >Are Doomed To Repeat It;
> >Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly–
> >Why They Are Simply Doomed.”
> >
> >Achemdro’hm
> >”The Illusion of Historical Fact”
> >– C.Y. 4971
> >
> >Andromeda
> >
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
>
>
> View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> runacc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Betsy R. Delaney
Web Mistress at large

************************************************************************
http://www.WebInvent.com/ * http://www.hawkeswood.com/
http://www.Costume-Con.org/ * http://www.sickpups.org/
http://www.SchoolWithoutWalls.org/
************************************************************************

 

Group: runacc Message: 230 From: Ricky & Karen Dick Date: 5/27/2003
Subject: Re: photography

TRudy, Ken is an excellent choice.

We just re ran in exibit only the 5 center costumes from Crimson King, at
Balticon, not only to try to help fill their Masq., but mainly to have Ken
take photos of us.

Not only did they come out great, we had some to take home with us.

Ricky
At 07:44 PM 5/26/2003 -0400, you wrote:

> Ken Warren is the official photographer for CC22. Having seen Ken’s
>work at many other cons, I’ve always been pretty pleased with his work, and
>unless he’s changed the way he does things, I think he wiil be closer to
>your recommendations.
>
>Trudy
>

 

Group: runacc Message: 231 From: henryosier@cs.com Date: 5/27/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers Room
Trudy, and all,
One thing that we asked our dealers was if they wanted tables, or
just the space. It was a combination, but a good question to ask. I also suggest
that when your dealers’ room person comes up with the layout, get it to the
hotel ASAP, and possibly in your contract.
Henry Osier

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 

Group: runacc Message: 232 From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger Date: 5/28/2003
Subject: Re: photography

At 06:44 PM 5/26/2003, you wrote:

> Ken Warren is the official photographer for CC22. Having seen Ken’s
>work at many other cons, I’ve always been pretty pleased with his work, and
>unless he’s changed the way he does things, I think he wiil be closer to
>your recommendations.
>
>Trudy

Ken has always been superb and I have no qualms with him as the C-C22
official photographer

Pierre

> >From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger <costumrs@radiks.net>
> >Reply-To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> >To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: [runacc] photography
> >Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 09:05:50 -0500
> >
> >Another issue to address is photography. Sandy and I just spent an
> >inordinate amount of time ordering photographs from the official
> >photographer from CC21. It quite literally took us 3 days to do. The photos
> >were arranged by photographer, not by costume and covered 14 pages on the
> >website. What we had to do was print all 14 pages of thumbnails, mark the
> >back of each thumbnail with the page number, then cut them out and group
> >them by costume so we could select which shots we wanted.
> >
> >The cost, as well, was prohibitive to most people. We’re lucky to be flush
> >enough to drop over $300 on a set with at least one view of each
> >competition costume. Most aren’t.
> >
> >We did, by the way, purchase the CD with all the photos. We got it awhile
> >ago and put it in to see if it would help us choose the best shots. It was
> >arranged as an Adobe PDF slide show, which also requires that you have the
> >Adobe Image Player software installed. Granted, it’s free, but if you
> >don’t want to (or can’t) download new software, you’re SOL. As far as we
> >can tell, there is no way to select individual shots. You can only play the
> >slide show. So the photos only stay on the screen for a short time. You can
> >only start at the beginning. And you can only stop by pressing
> >CNTL-ALT-DEL.
> >
> >It should be strongly recommended in the future that photography’s goals
> >are
> >
> >1. A production of archival material easily available for storage and
> >access
> >
> >2. Availability of photographs for the attendees at a reasonable cost
> >(reasonable is ~$1.00-1.50 per 4×6 print)
> >
> >3. Availability of a portfolio of all photographs taken for a cost
> >significantly less than (price per single print) x (number of total shots)
> >
> >
> >Similar issues involve video though we haven’t had such a situation with
> >video yet thanks to folks like Carl, Rusty Dawe and others.
> >
> >
> >Pierre
> >
> >
> >
> >”Those Who Fail To Learn History
> >Are Doomed To Repeat It;
> >Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly–
> >Why They Are Simply Doomed.”
> >
> >Achemdro’hm
> >”The Illusion of Historical Fact”
> >– C.Y. 4971
> >
> >Andromeda
> >
> >
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*
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“Those Who Fail To Learn History
Are Doomed To Repeat It;
Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly–
Why They Are Simply Doomed.”

Achemdro’hm
“The Illusion of Historical Fact”
— C.Y. 4971

Andromeda

 

Group: runacc Message: 233 From: JBdashoff@aol.com Date: 5/29/2003
Subject: Re: Green Room
Dear all,
Bobbi Gear mentioned that she had several neos as staff/den mommies in
the Green Room this year. It does not appear to have been much of a problem
except…
Very few entrants went to see the workmanship judges. And for entrants
who arrived late, it was not a priority. The workmanship judges expressed the
regret that more of the entrants had not come to see them, since they believe
from what they did see at a distance that they could have given more awards.
This year’s Arisia also had several neo-mommies. I had been a den mommy
before so I took the initiative to write a check list for the two or three
neos and it seemed to have helped.
First, each den parent should have a list by entry number and title of
every one in their den. The check-in person usually prepares this.
My list included the status checks a den parent should remind/enforce an
entrant to do.
It included official photography, and details for the ninjas like an odd
entrance or exit that the rest of the staff need.
Gentle reminders for their own health and safety like drinks and snacks,
bathroom, repair table, no anachronisms (give me your watch, eyeglasses,
convention badge to hold for you).
And the strong encouragement to see the workmanship judge(s), because
after putting all your effort into constructing the costume, there must be some
part you are especially proud of making happen.
I’m sure I’ve forgotten something.

I heard reports the work aprons for the den mommies were useful at
Lunacon to identify the mommies/dens to the participants. I believe Balticon used
sign posts with the den numbers. Could someone else speak to this?
Joni Dashoff

PS Andy, you’re right ..if you tell the MD you’re available, they can act
(or not) and appoint you a judge. Of course, it helps to have all the masters on
site involved in a masquerade (re)presentation. Thank you to Karen and Ricky,
et al. that glimpse of wonder.

 

Group: runacc Message: 234 From: Martin Gear Date: 5/29/2003
Subject: Re: Green Room
RE Joani’s comments on the Balticon Green Room –
The group that screamed the loudest about not being judged for
workmanship arrived in the Green Room after the Workmanship Judges had
left to be introduced. This group is experienced enough to know that if
they want workmanship judging they need to get down to the green room
more than 3 minutes before the start of the masquerade. On the other
hand, there were several neos who did not know that workmanship judging
is optional and that they have to go to the workmanship judges on their
own. We plan to make some changes to the sign-up forms and include a
Workmanship Judging form with instructions for next year.

Bobby had the bright pink den signs and I know that she had borrowed
Vivki’s bright green Den Mom aprons, but since I wasn’t in the green
room I don’t know if they got used or not.

One bit of kvetch — If we don’t get more than 15 entries in our
masquerade, I’m not sure that the expense for tech and green room can be
justified to the con. Does anybody out there have any constructive
thoughts about how we can get more people to compete?

^M^

 

Group: runacc Message: 235 From: Betsy Delaney Date: 5/29/2003
Subject: Costume-ConNections going down momentarily. Drum roll, please!
Hi, folks!

This message is being crossposted for widest dispersal. If you want to
forward this message offlist, please feel free, as long as you send the
whole darn thing.

In just a few short minutes, I’m going to replace the current home page
of http://www.Costume-Con.org/ with a place-holder. Then, when I’m done
doublechecking links, I’m going to reload all 5,000 or so files in the
current site.

When I’m done, you will notice:

* Links to all participants and awards from every page, including
complete photo indices for each CC that has photos available online
* Updated information on CC21 and CC20 (including masquerade
participants for both)
* Updated information on the Timeline, including official information on
CC24 and unofficial bids through CC26
* A wider format for all pages, allowing for better display on larger
monitors

FYI: Digital versions of the photos have been requested for CC21 and
prints are already in my hands. CC21 video should be in my hands
shortly. CC10 and CC12 photos are also in my hands. All will be added
AFTER the new site launches.

If you notice anything weird (broken pages, missing content, malformed
stuff) AFTER I announce the relaunch, please contact me ASAP!

Thanks in advance for your patience and understanding.

Cheers,

Betsy

Betsy R. Delaney
Web Mistress at large

************************************************************************
http://www.WebInvent.com/ * http://www.hawkeswood.com/
http://www.Costume-Con.org/ * http://www.sickpups.org/
http://www.SchoolWithoutWalls.org/
************************************************************************

 

Group: runacc Message: 236 From: Ricky & Karen Dick Date: 5/29/2003
Subject: Re: Green Room

>Marty,

in addition to the things we chatted about at the con,
Does the con com care about whether the entries are for show or for
exhibiton? Do they just care about how many entries overall?
hopefully they just want a big masq and a good show to warrant the budget.

For us, we’ll be happy to display something for you each year if we can’t
get something new done.

Most of that is because of the switch in Balticon to After most costume cons.
I would have been happy to compete the 5 characters of Crimson King at
Balticon, then take the whole unfair large group professional entry to
costume con.
But that isn’t possible anymore.

I know that for myself, and at least Carol Salemi, we view Balticon as
‘home’ and will gladly exhibit something to help fill the masq if it will help.

and if it will, then do we need to start making calls to any known
costumers attending Balticon, asking them to just help fill out the show if
there’s nothing new to compete.

I was also wondering about folks bringing display costumes that might not
have ever seen a Balticon, even if they don’t fit anymore.
I know that our 2 den moms are brand new, and would have loved to go on
stage for a fiorst time with no win pressure or even , my first costume is
being judged pressure, as it would be a display of someone else work.

an example, at CC11 Karen sold off a bunch of her old stuff.
all con worn, and most won something out in California.
Faith Baker has one or two.
Would it be cool if she wore it in display and it was announced that it was
from the Equicon Fashion Show 1975 in LA?

And I hope this is okay on this list.
Balticon was always a BIG feeder con for CC costumes, and if we loose it,
CCon the east coast is in trouble.

I’m sure Andy and Kevin will be trying to seed as much of Baycon between
now and CC-26 for the same reason.

Ricky

>One bit of kvetch — If we don’t get more than 15 entries in our
>masquerade, I’m not sure that the expense for tech and green room can be
>justified to the con. Does anybody out there have any constructive
>thoughts about how we can get more people to compete?
>
>^M^
>
>
>
>
>View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>runacc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

 

Group: runacc Message: 237 From: Kevin Roche Date: 5/29/2003
Subject: Re: Green Room

>
> I’m sure Andy and Kevin will be trying to seed as much of Baycon between
> now and CC-26 for the same reason.
>

Thanks to our friends the Stitchin’ Babes, our anime contacts, our Furry
contacts, andsoforthandsoforth…

1) The BayCon masquerade may have grown enough that the concom will finally
have to let go of its repressed hostility towards on-stage masquerades and
improve the support system… plus get rid of the gawd-awful names “Novice”
and “Professional” for their two divisions. We’ve got a very
audience-conscious MD in place now who knows costumers and is asking for our
advice, so cross your fingers. We’re trying to help Hilary stay true to the
Baycon concom’s professed wish to run a “beginner-friendly” masquerade,
while coaxing them away from the “costumer-unfriendly” habits they’ve
developed. The last couple of years are really putting the pressure on the
concom to put their money where their mouths are.

2) We’re going to work hard with our friends keeping the costume programming
high profile and high quality at BayCon, and keep some coverage for the year
that CC is Memorial Day weekend (the source of much of the concom oft-denied
hostility)

3) We’ve got groups (see above) coming out of the woodwork asking what they
can do to make sure our bid comes off. A very good sign.

Kevin

 

Group: runacc Message: 238 From: Martin Gear Date: 5/29/2003
Subject: Re: Green Room

Ricky & Karen Dick wrote:

>> Marty,
>

<snip>

> Does the con com care about whether the entries are for show or for
> exhibiton? Do they just care about how many entries overall?
> hopefully they just want a big masq and a good show to warrant the
> budget.
>

That’s basically it. The masquerade is the BIG attraction for Saturday
night as well as being where we get most of the money for R.I.F. If we
can keep people entertained for 2 to 2-1/2 hours, then I don’t think
that there will be any bitching from the con com. Figure half an hour
for the Young Writers’ and Compton Crook awards, 45 minutes to an hour
for the RIF auction /(Judging), and 15 minutes for the Masquerade
awards, that means that I need 45 minutes to an hour worth of costumes
going across the stage at a minimum.

> For us, we’ll be happy to display something for you each year if we
> can’t get something new done.

This would be fine. Hell, you could even repeat something that you did
five years before at a Balticon. (Classic Costume? Best of the Oldies?)

<snip>

> and if it will, then do we need to start making calls to any known
> costumers attending Balticon, asking them to just help fill out the
> show if there’s nothing new to compete.

This would probably be a good idea. The “Best in Class – Journeyman” was
Diane Kovalsin’s Jedi group who worked out a presentation over dinner
when we told her that we were getting desperate for entries.

> I was also wondering about folks bringing display costumes that might
> not have ever seen a Balticon, even if they don’t fit anymore. I know
> that our 2 den moms are brand new, and would have loved to go on
> stage for a first time with no win pressure or even , my first
> costume is being judged pressure, as it would be a display of someone
> else work.
> an example, at CC11 Karen sold off a bunch of her old stuff. all con
> worn, and most won something out in California. Faith Baker has one
> or two. Would it be cool if she wore it in display and it was
> announced that it was from the Equicon Fashion Show 1975 in LA?

One of the things that we talked about in the hall would be to do a
$1.98 Costume Panel on Saturday and then show the efforts at the
Masquerade, and also to have a show us your hall costume parade. I’m all
in favor of making newbies comfortable and I really like your
suggestion. (Hell, we could have had someone show off my chorus costume
from Crimson King if I had thought about it.)

> And I hope this is okay on this list. Balticon was always a BIG
> feeder con for CC costumes, and if we loose it, CCon the east coast
> is in trouble.
>

It works for me. There were a bunch of the GCFCG members at the con who
weren’t in costume and I/we need to nag them.

Thanks for your suggestions —
^M^

 

Group: runacc Message: 239 From: Andrew Trembley Date: 5/29/2003
Subject: Draft invite/job description for CC26 Bid Committee members
so this is my draft intro letter for people invited to join our bid
committee. So far no bid committee members have been added to the
cc26sv-staff mailing list, at least not until I could have this
document and a few supporting documents written up.

——-
Welcome to the CC26? Bid Committee. Before you accept our invitation,
we would like you to look over this description of the responsibilities
you are accepting.

As a member of the CC26? Bid Committee, it’s your job to help market
Costume-Con 26 in Silicon Valley in your region and in the costume
organizations and communities you participate in. What does this really
mean?

1. We’re building a list of costume organizations to distribute fliers
and progress reports to. We need your help in collecting names.
2. We’re building a calendar of costume events that bid committee
members are planning to attend. We need your help in telling us where
you’re going to be.
3. We’re distributing event fliers at costume events. We need your help
in taking fliers to your events. An Adobe PDF including all fliers is
available for downloading and may be printed in either color or
black-and-white.
4. We’re giving out “CC26? Pre-Con Costume Award” ribbons at costume
events. We need your help in giving out these awards. Drop us a note
with your mailing address and we’ll send you a packet of them.
5. We’re hosting “League of Evil Geniuses” parties at costume-heavy
conventions. If you would like to host a party at your local
convention, we’ll provide you with the information you’ll need to do so.

This is not a convention with deep pockets. The conference can’t fund a
lot of this activity. The Bid Chair will fund printing and shipping of
award ribbons (so we can maintain consistency). As to the rest, we’re
working on a mechanism where you can submit expense reports and be
receipted so you can deduct those expenses from your taxes as a
donation to the Unconventional Foundation. More detailed information
will be available as we complete our incorporation paperwork and work
with our accountant.

If you’re willing to take on this responsibility and the occasional
printing expense, then once again, welcome to the CC26? Bid Committee


andy trembley, CC26? Bid Chair
http://www.cc26.info/
“It’s not pink; it’s peach-colored. Pink is tacky.” –Manfred Pfirsich
Marie Rommel

 

Group: runacc Message: 240 From: Byron Connell Date: 5/29/2003
Subject: Re: Green Room

I agree with Joni. It is important that all entries have official photos taken and that all are encouraged to go for (optional) workmanship judging. If possible, I assign neos as mother’s helpers rather than den moms, but often have had no choice, since the number of volunteers has been sparse. I try to give my green room staff a thorough briefing on the several aspects of their responsibility — with any luck, before too many entrants arrive. I have found that this is helpful to first-time den moms. This is one of the reasons the green room manager needs to be there first and to have the staff arrive before the contestants do.

In my green rooms, the check-in clerk hands each entrant a 3×5 entry card upon arrival with the direction to give it to the den mom. The den mom already has a list of entry numbers (at least); the card provides a way for the den mom to check that all entries are present and to let me know if someone has not shown up. The den mom also can use the card to record official photography and workmanship judging, if he or she wishes.

It would be very helpful if entry forms included a request for information on the direction of stage entries and exits. In the absence of such information, I ask the den moms to check whether any entrant(s) may be entering or leaving the stage counter to the default path. To meet such needs, the green room manager may need to provide a mother’s helper on the other side of the stage, pre-position some members of an entry, and/or warn the back stage crew about two-way traffic!

If space permits, I like to arrange dens in semi-circles of chairs, so that each den is distinct, rather than simply lining chairs up along the walls of the green room. In either case, it is essential to provide a sign identifying each den by number (as well as signs for check-in, food and water, repairs, workmanship judging, and photography). We usually print up sets of such signs to use in the green room; I’d be happy to make the computer files available. (I think they’re in WordPerfect but maybe in Word.).

Tabards or similar garb to make green room staff visible can be valuable. I have used headbands, ribbons, and similar devices to identify green room staff; this primarily was for security purposes. ConFrancisco provided aprons to den moms. This year, we used identifying tabards at Lunacon for the first time. They certainly made the Den Moms’ visible! The ones we used had been made by Vicki Warren for use at Philcon, They’re in an absolutely horrible bright green that is hard to miss in the chaos of a green room. I have a similar set on order from another costumer.

Byron

—– Original Message —–
From: JBdashoff@aol.com
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 2:39 AM
Subject: Re: [runacc] Green Room

Dear all,
Bobbi Gear mentioned that she had several neos as staff/den mommies in
the Green Room this year. It does not appear to have been much of a problem
except…
Very few entrants went to see the workmanship judges. And for entrants
who arrived late, it was not a priority. The workmanship judges expressed the
regret that more of the entrants had not come to see them, since they believe
from what they did see at a distance that they could have given more awards.
This year’s Arisia also had several neo-mommies. I had been a den mommy
before so I took the initiative to write a check list for the two or three
neos and it seemed to have helped.
First, each den parent should have a list by entry number and title of
every one in their den. The check-in person usually prepares this.
My list included the status checks a den parent should remind/enforce an
entrant to do.
It included official photography, and details for the ninjas like an odd
entrance or exit that the rest of the staff need.
Gentle reminders for their own health and safety like drinks and snacks,
bathroom, repair table, no anachronisms (give me your watch, eyeglasses,
convention badge to hold for you).
And the strong encouragement to see the workmanship judge(s), because
after putting all your effort into constructing the costume, there must be some
part you are especially proud of making happen.
I’m sure I’ve forgotten something.

I heard reports the work aprons for the den mommies were useful at
Lunacon to identify the mommies/dens to the participants. I believe Balticon used
sign posts with the den numbers. Could someone else speak to this?
Joni Dashoff

PS Andy, you’re right ..if you tell the MD you’re available, they can act
(or not) and appoint you a judge. Of course, it helps to have all the masters on
site involved in a masquerade (re)presentation. Thank you to Karen and Ricky,
et al. that glimpse of wonder.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 

Group: runacc Message: 241 From: Betsy Delaney Date: 5/30/2003
Subject: Re: Green Room

Oh, I think this information is pertinent. Many of the CCs (most, if not
all) are managed by people who are also managing regional or local cons.
I assume that much of what we learn on the local level will be applied
to management when we get to Costume-Con. If we are noticing issues
locally, that aren’t established in the how-to yet, I can’t see a reason
why we wouldn’t want to discuss them here.

That’s all the input I have at the moment. More next week, I hope!

Betsy

Ricky & Karen Dick wrote:

>

[snip]

> And I hope this is okay on this list.
> Balticon was always a BIG feeder con for CC costumes, and if we loose it,
> CCon the east coast is in trouble.

[snip]


Betsy R. Delaney
Web Mistress at large

************************************************************************
http://www.WebInvent.com/ * http://www.hawkeswood.com/
http://www.Costume-Con.org/ * http://www.sickpups.org/
http://www.SchoolWithoutWalls.org/
************************************************************************

 

Group: runacc Message: 242 From: Andrew Trembley Date: 5/30/2003
Subject: DRAFT monthly reminder
This is your monthly reminder from CC26SV-Staff, the email list for Bid
Committee and Conference Committee members working on Costume-Con 26:
Adventures in the Costume Continuum.

There are a few ground-rules on this list:
1. This is not a chat-list. We’re focusing on conference business here.
2. Everybody should have a job description. If you don’t have one or
don’t know what yours is, contact chair@cc26.info to work on it.
3. If you see aan area that isn’t being covered, don’t just take it on.
Contact chair@cc26.info first, and work with the chairman to determine
where the responsibility should really lie.
4. If you have a suggestion that’s in somebody else’s area of
responsibility, take it directly (offlist) to them first.
5. On-list brainstorming sessions are the exception to rule #4, but
those should be called by the person responsible.
6. If negotiating with other departments off-list, results must be
posted on-list as soon as possible. Other folks can benefit from your
results.
7. Monthly status reports will at some point in the future be
requested. We’ll post the format when the time comes.

There are also a bunch of resources available in this group:

The Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cc26sv-staff/files/
contains documents and files of use to committee members.

The Database section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cc26sv-staff/database
contains tables of contact information for BidCom and ConCom members.
Please update your contact information here. If you have contact
information for organizations we should be marketing to, add those to
the “Marketing Mailing List” table.

The Links section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cc26sv-staff/links
contains links to other websites of interest to the committee.

If you have problems accessing these sections, contact bid@cc26.info
for assistance.

 

Group: runacc Message: 243 From: Andrew Trembley Date: 5/30/2003
Subject: Oh, just to clarify…
I’ve been working on the support docs for our CC26 bid. I’m posting
copies of some that are pertinent to runacc over here too.

andy


Andy Trembley, Bull-in-Drag
The Bovine Illuminati (It’s the Cows, Inc.)
http://www.bovil.com/
Moo!

 

Group: runacc Message: 244 From: Betsy Delaney Date: 6/1/2003
Subject: Drum roll, please! Costume-ConNections Relaunched!
Hi, folks!

Roughly 5,500 files and several days later, I’m pleased as punch to
announce the unveiling of the new and improved Costume-ConNections web
site at:

http://www.Costume-Con.org/

The new site (which has some major and some minor changes) is live now.

You will notice at the top of each page that you can now reach the lists
for all competiton participants and awards recipients (for which I have
data). This data now includes both Costume-Con 20 and Costume-Con 21.

As always, if you notice an error in a listing, please bring it to my
attention by sending email to my Costume-Con.org address.

The Links page still needs to be overhauled, but that’s going to wait a
little while. I expect to be working on the photos for CC21 shortly, and
the remaining four CCs after that.

Thanks to all of you for your continued support, compliments and
suggestions!!!

Happy costuming,

Betsy Delaney
Costume-Con Archivist


Betsy R. Delaney
Web Mistress at large

************************************************************************
http://www.WebInvent.com/ * http://www.hawkeswood.com/
http://www.Costume-Con.org/ * http://www.sickpups.org/
http://www.SchoolWithoutWalls.org/
************************************************************************

 

Group: runacc Message: 245 From: Tina Connell Date: 6/2/2003
Subject: Fabric dealer (re: dealers room discussion a couple of weeks ago)

When the subject of fabric dealers came up, I tried to look up Timeless Textiles on-line, and came up dry — apparently their website went bye-bye. Undeterred, I sent them an e-mail to the address I had, and finally today (weeks later) got the attached response. This is FYI, for anyone who would like the update. They do have a nice selection.

Tina

—– Original Message —–
From: Ttextiles@aol.com
To: cvconnel@nycap.rr.com
Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 12:44 PM
Subject: Re: Are you still there?

Yes, we are still in business. Our fabrics can be found on a friends web site at www.houseofanoria.com
Note the new address below:

Timeless Fabrics
PO Box 476
Hershey, PA 17033
pH (717) 930-0928
fax (717) 531-2434
Ttextiles@aol.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 

Group: runacc Message: 246 From: Andrew Trembley Date: 6/2/2003
Subject: Da Packet…
As I started to put together our master marketing list, I asked myself
“What the hell are we going to mail out to colleges and clubs once
we’ve got their addresses?”

I looked back (or rather dug through my memory) and came up with
Australia’s bid packet. Now I doubt that we (CC26) can get our CVB to
put together that sort of thing for us (tho I could be wrong), and we
can’t afford to put together quite so fancy a packet on our own, but we
can still use it as a model. There are cheaper ways to put together a
packet than glossy printing and wire binding.

So what really needs to go into the packet?
1. A cover letter
2. A 2- or 4-side report with more detailed information about the
conference
3. A 1-4 page “portfolio” showing examples of masquerade and contest
entries
4. Copies of event fliers relevant to the organization
All can go into a simple pocket folder with the conference name and
logo stickered on to the front.

This sort of packet will probably come out to a few bucks each,
depending on cost of the folders, cost of printing the portfolio sheets
and associated mailing costs. It’s probably worth it, though, for
promoting to organizations outside of the fannish (and recreationist)
worlds; some folks need to equate “good” with “professional” when
looking at conference materials.


andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen
http://www.irlm.org/ – mailto:webmaster@irlm.org
“Anybody who takes this seriously deserves to”
— Donna Barr

 

Group: runacc Message: 247 From: Elaine Mami Date: 6/2/2003
Subject: Re: Da Packet…

Andy,

Good start, but you should also include something about the panels,
workshops, etc. We do have an educational function, too, remember.

Elaine

Blessed are we who can laugh at ourselves, for we shall always be amused!

> As I started to put together our master marketing list, I asked myself
> “What the hell are we going to mail out to colleges and clubs once
> we’ve got their addresses?”
>
> I looked back (or rather dug through my memory) and came up with
> Australia’s bid packet. Now I doubt that we (CC26) can get our CVB to
> put together that sort of thing for us (tho I could be wrong), and we
> can’t afford to put together quite so fancy a packet on our own, but we
> can still use it as a model. There are cheaper ways to put together a
> packet than glossy printing and wire binding.
>
> So what really needs to go into the packet?
> 1. A cover letter
> 2. A 2- or 4-side report with more detailed information about the
> conference
> 3. A 1-4 page “portfolio” showing examples of masquerade and contest
> entries
> 4. Copies of event fliers relevant to the organization
> All can go into a simple pocket folder with the conference name and
> logo stickered on to the front.
>
> This sort of packet will probably come out to a few bucks each,
> depending on cost of the folders, cost of printing the portfolio sheets
> and associated mailing costs. It’s probably worth it, though, for
> promoting to organizations outside of the fannish (and recreationist)
> worlds; some folks need to equate “good” with “professional” when
> looking at conference materials.
>

 

Group: runacc Message: 248 From: Andrew Trembley Date: 6/2/2003
Subject: Re: Da Packet…

On Monday, June 2, 2003, at 07:13 PM, Elaine Mami wrote:

> Andy,
>
> Good start, but you should also include something about the panels,
> workshops, etc. We do have an educational function, too, remember.

My thoughts were that should be part of the detailed report on the
conference.

andy


andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen
http://www.irlm.org/ – mailto:webmaster@irlm.org
“Anybody who takes this seriously deserves to”
— Donna Barr

 

Group: runacc Message: 249 From: henryosier@cs.com Date: 6/2/2003
Subject: Re: Da Packet…
With a little modification, this would be a good thing to hand to the hotel
staff so they know what we are all about.

Henry Osier

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 

Group: runacc Message: 250 From: betsy Date: 6/2/2003
Subject: Re: Da Packet…

I’ll be interested to see what you come up with, content-wise. Feel free to
run it through here, if you want, for additional feedback.

Some of the material could come from the Costume-ConNections FAQ. I just
answered a question that I get infrequently about who can attend a CC and how
membership works.

I’ll be posting the data to the FAQ sometime this week. I’ve got the Guestbook
and FAQ to update, and the Links page to revisit for cobwebs.

Cheers,

Betsy

On Mon, 2 Jun 2003 19:18:08 -0700, Andrew Trembley wrote

> On Monday, June 2, 2003, at 07:13 PM, Elaine Mami wrote:
>
> > Andy,
> >
> > Good start, but you should also include something about the panels,
> > workshops, etc. We do have an educational function, too, remember.
>
> My thoughts were that should be part of the detailed report on the
> conference.
>
> andy


Betsy R. Delaney
Web Mistress at large
WebInvent.com, Inc.

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