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Messages in runacc group. Page 5 of 67.

Group: runacc Message: 201 From: Ricky & Karen Dick Date: 5/20/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers’ Room: Juried vs First-Come, First Served
Group: runacc Message: 202 From: Trudy Leonard Date: 5/20/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers Room
Group: runacc Message: 203 From: Ricky & Karen Dick Date: 5/20/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers Room
Group: runacc Message: 204 From: henryosier@cs.com Date: 5/20/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers’ Room: Juried vs First-Come, First Served
Group: runacc Message: 205 From: Betsy Delaney Date: 5/20/2003
Subject: Space assignments and other things of note.
Group: runacc Message: 206 From: Ricky & Karen Dick Date: 5/20/2003
Subject: Re: Space assignments and other things of note.
Group: runacc Message: 207 From: Byron Connell Date: 5/20/2003
Subject: Re: Exhibits/Dealers (was Re: Dealers Room)
Group: runacc Message: 208 From: Elaine Mami Date: 5/20/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers’ Room
Group: runacc Message: 209 From: Trudy Leonard Date: 5/20/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers’ Room
Group: runacc Message: 210 From: Bruce & Nora Mai Date: 5/21/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers’ Room — back to Janet
Group: runacc Message: 211 From: Martin Gear Date: 5/21/2003
Subject: Re: Space assignments and other things of note.
Group: runacc Message: 212 From: Tina Connell Date: 5/21/2003
Subject: Newbies
Group: runacc Message: 213 From: Elaine Mami Date: 5/21/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers’ Room — back to Janet
Group: runacc Message: 214 From: Andrew Trembley Date: 5/21/2003
Subject: Re: Newbies
Group: runacc Message: 215 From: Elaine Mami Date: 5/21/2003
Subject: Re: Newbies
Group: runacc Message: 216 From: Byron Connell Date: 5/21/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers’ Room — back to Janet
Group: runacc Message: 217 From: Cliff and Eileen Date: 5/22/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers Room
Group: runacc Message: 218 From: Cliff and Eileen Date: 5/22/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers Room
Group: runacc Message: 219 From: Betsy Delaney Date: 5/22/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers Room
Group: runacc Message: 220 From: Andrew Trembley Date: 5/22/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers Room
Group: runacc Message: 221 From: Ricky & Karen Dick Date: 5/22/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers Room
Group: runacc Message: 222 From: Les Roth Date: 5/22/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers Room
Group: runacc Message: 223 From: Bruce & Nora Mai Date: 5/22/2003
Subject: Re: Newbies stuff from Tina
Group: runacc Message: 224 From: Tina Connell Date: 5/23/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers Room
Group: runacc Message: 225 From: Betsy Delaney Date: 5/23/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers Room and discussion progress
Group: runacc Message: 226 From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger Date: 5/25/2003
Subject: photography
Group: runacc Message: 227 From: Bruce & Nora Mai Date: 5/26/2003
Subject: Re: photography
Group: runacc Message: 228 From: Trudy Leonard Date: 5/26/2003
Subject: Re: photography
Group: runacc Message: 229 From: Betsy Delaney Date: 5/27/2003
Subject: Re: photography – more comments
Group: runacc Message: 230 From: Ricky & Karen Dick Date: 5/27/2003
Subject: Re: photography
Group: runacc Message: 231 From: henryosier@cs.com Date: 5/27/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers Room
Group: runacc Message: 232 From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger Date: 5/28/2003
Subject: Re: photography
Group: runacc Message: 233 From: JBdashoff@aol.com Date: 5/29/2003
Subject: Re: Green Room
Group: runacc Message: 234 From: Martin Gear Date: 5/29/2003
Subject: Re: Green Room
Group: runacc Message: 235 From: Betsy Delaney Date: 5/29/2003
Subject: Costume-ConNections going down momentarily. Drum roll, please!
Group: runacc Message: 236 From: Ricky & Karen Dick Date: 5/29/2003
Subject: Re: Green Room
Group: runacc Message: 237 From: Kevin Roche Date: 5/29/2003
Subject: Re: Green Room
Group: runacc Message: 238 From: Martin Gear Date: 5/29/2003
Subject: Re: Green Room
Group: runacc Message: 239 From: Andrew Trembley Date: 5/29/2003
Subject: Draft invite/job description for CC26 Bid Committee members
Group: runacc Message: 240 From: Byron Connell Date: 5/29/2003
Subject: Re: Green Room
Group: runacc Message: 241 From: Betsy Delaney Date: 5/30/2003
Subject: Re: Green Room
Group: runacc Message: 242 From: Andrew Trembley Date: 5/30/2003
Subject: DRAFT monthly reminder
Group: runacc Message: 243 From: Andrew Trembley Date: 5/30/2003
Subject: Oh, just to clarify…
Group: runacc Message: 244 From: Betsy Delaney Date: 6/1/2003
Subject: Drum roll, please! Costume-ConNections Relaunched!
Group: runacc Message: 245 From: Tina Connell Date: 6/2/2003
Subject: Fabric dealer (re: dealers room discussion a couple of weeks ago)
Group: runacc Message: 246 From: Andrew Trembley Date: 6/2/2003
Subject: Da Packet…
Group: runacc Message: 247 From: Elaine Mami Date: 6/2/2003
Subject: Re: Da Packet…
Group: runacc Message: 248 From: Andrew Trembley Date: 6/2/2003
Subject: Re: Da Packet…
Group: runacc Message: 249 From: henryosier@cs.com Date: 6/2/2003
Subject: Re: Da Packet…
Group: runacc Message: 250 From: betsy Date: 6/2/2003
Subject: Re: Da Packet…

 


 

Group: runacc Message: 201 From: Ricky & Karen Dick Date: 5/20/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers’ Room: Juried vs First-Come, First Served

Most of the juried dealer’s rooms I’ve come across have been to avoid
duplication in products, not to keep out non-themed dealers.

When we were in the clown world, most conventions limited their dealer
rooms to two of any given type of dealer. So: two shoe dealers tops, two
costume dealers tops, two wig dealers tops, etc. This SUCKED for us,
because we were a costume company on a convention circuit where there were
already two established costume companies that were deeply entrenched at
the lion’s share of conventions. There were also conventions where we were
not allowed to sell socks, or wigs, or shoes, or whatever subset of our
regular inventory, because those “rights” were held by another dealer for
that convention. That sucked, too, as we were diversified in order to
maximize our potential earnings at any given convention.

I would like to see Costume-Con avoid the kind of dealer politics we
encountered on a regular basis in the clown world. (One of the many reasons
we are NOT on the clown convention circuit any more.)

I would like to see Costume-Con handle its dealers the way other
professional trade shows do: You pay your money, and you get a space. If
you pay late, you might not end up with quite the space you wanted (up
against a wall vs. out on the floor; next to your friends, whatever), or a
space at all. No politics. No preferential treatment.

Sorry, but speaking as someone who’s been out in the trenches for 10+
years, this is a “hot button” for me.

–Karen

At 11:50 AM 5/20/2003 -0400, you wrote:

>The reason that we went with the juried approach was to eliminate dealers
>with the table full of action figures and ones with stuff that wasn’t
>costuming orientated. We felt that this was fair to the dealers, who want to
>make money, and the attendees.
>Henry Osier
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>runacc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
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Group: runacc Message: 202 From: Trudy Leonard Date: 5/20/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers Room

Here’s my problem. We are in a very small convention center. Bigggg
ballroom, nice sized rooms on either side that can be split in two or made
one decent sized room (Dealer’s room and workshops/greenroom) and a small
theatre. I can also close off the back half of the ballroom for workshops,
dances, etc. during the day. That’s it, guys. We also have use of the hotel
boardroom, which is on the other side of the building from the main
convention area, which we had considered setting up as a “stitch’n bitch”
area. The room that I might be able to get for Janet would be off the hotel
lobby, not the convention center lobby, and was a small cafe at one time, so
it has booths and tables in it (which might not be bad for displaying
stuff). I could put the dolls and costume displays in the boardroom, but the
traffic might not be that great, and it would require a constant attendant.
We had the tradeoff of having the convention in an area with plenty of
amenities and have a somewhat small space (but that we have all of), or
having it in a gigantohotel downtown, where they charge $18 a day to park,
we’d be sharing with lots of other folks, and it’s not a place you really
want to walk around in a lot.

Trudy

>From: “Tina Connell” <cvconnel@nycap.rr.com>
>Reply-To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
>To: <runacc@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: Re: [runacc] Dealers Room
>Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 07:16:25 -0400
>
>Well, for starters, what would Janet think about being put in a room away
>from the other dealers’ room? Or are you saying that there is a larger
>room off the lobby which would accommodate bothe Alter Years and the other
>dealers as well? Off the lobby could have its advantages. BTW, I looked
>pretty closely at the books offered by both Poison Pen and Alter Years (as
>did Byron) and there really wasn’t a lot of overlap. It was nice having
>the extra variety. I bought books from both of them. And speaking of
>variety, FABRIC! We hardly ever see it in dealers rooms. If you can get a
>fabric dealer in, that would be a good thing! (Assuming the dealer has
>decent stuff.)
>
>Incidentally, if I were making the decision I wouldn’t put the dolls in
>Dealers. Too much chance for them to get damaged, and if they’re near a
>popular dealer, not very accessible after all.
>
>Tina
> —– Original Message —–
> From: Trudy Leonard
> To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, May 19, 2003 12:49 AM
> Subject: Re: [runacc] Dealers Room
>
>
>
> I’m very interested in hearing everyone’s thoughts on this. Janet has
> indicated an interest in bring her truck full of stuff to Atlanta. At
>the
> moment, I don’t really have anywhere to put her. Our space is at a
>premium.
> Even though we have the entire convention area, it ain’t that big. I
>can
> fit 14 tables and the doll exhibit into our dealer’s room. I could fit
>more
> if I put tables down the middle of the room, but I am hoping to have
>enough
> space for people to move comfortably. There is another space that I
>might
> be able to get from the hotel, but it won’t be in the convention area,
>but
> will be just off the hotel lobby. I would love for the folks here who
>don’t
> have access to a G Street, or Alter Years or some other source for all
>the
> historical patterns, accessories, etc, to have a chance to buy some of
>these
> things. On the other hand, Poison Pen is already booked as one of the
> dealers, and I hate to lessen her sales (even if it is “business”).
>
> I’m not too keen on the “selling out of a hotel room” idea. I don’t
>think
> you would do as well if folks had to find you and not have you right
>there
> in the traffic flow. One of the reasons, besides space, that we are
>putting
> the dolls in the dealers room is to increase the traffic for both.
>
> Trudy
>
> >From: Bruce & Nora Mai <casamai@sbcglobal.net>
> >Reply-To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> >To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: [runacc] Dealers Room
> >Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 17:15:03 -0500
> >
> >This is a question for Henry, but I’d like hear input from the rest of
>you.
> >
> >Henry:
> >
> >Can you ask your Liason about any feedback they got about how the other
> >dealers felt about Janet having a room all to herself? Our Liason
>feels
> >very strongly that this was very unfair to them. My position is, if
>she’s
> >willing to come with all her stuff, and pay appropriately, why not?
>How
> >important is it for AlterYears to be part of a mix, no matter how much
>she
> >brings? Is limiting all dealers to a certain number of tables
>inherently
> >fair?
> >
> >Thanks.
> >
> >Bruce
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
> >
> >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >runacc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________
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>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Group: runacc Message: 203 From: Ricky & Karen Dick Date: 5/20/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers Room

I don’t think Janet would have a problem being away from the other dealers
if it means she gets the kind of space she needs (but you’d have to ask
her). AlterYears is always a draw, so I think your convention attendees
will find her no matter where you put her. Are the boardroom and cafe of
comparable size, and would it make sense to swap AlterYears and the
dolls/exhibits?
Or put out the call for volunteers to sit at the entrance of the exhibits
in 2- or 3-hour shifts so it is constantly attended?

–Karen

At 02:25 PM 5/20/2003 -0400, you wrote:

>Here’s my problem. We are in a very small convention center. Bigggg
>ballroom, nice sized rooms on either side that can be split in two or made
>one decent sized room (Dealer’s room and workshops/greenroom) and a small
>theatre. I can also close off the back half of the ballroom for workshops,
>dances, etc. during the day. That’s it, guys. We also have use of the hotel
>boardroom, which is on the other side of the building from the main
>convention area, which we had considered setting up as a “stitch’n bitch”
>area. The room that I might be able to get for Janet would be off the hotel
>lobby, not the convention center lobby, and was a small cafe at one time, so
>it has booths and tables in it (which might not be bad for displaying
>stuff). I could put the dolls and costume displays in the boardroom, but the
>traffic might not be that great, and it would require a constant attendant.
>We had the tradeoff of having the convention in an area with plenty of
>amenities and have a somewhat small space (but that we have all of), or
>having it in a gigantohotel downtown, where they charge $18 a day to park,
>we’d be sharing with lots of other folks, and it’s not a place you really
>want to walk around in a lot.
>
>Trudy
> >From: “Tina Connell” <cvconnel@nycap.rr.com>
> >Reply-To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> >To: <runacc@yahoogroups.com>
> >Subject: Re: [runacc] Dealers Room
> >Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 07:16:25 -0400
> >
> >Well, for starters, what would Janet think about being put in a room away
> >from the other dealers’ room? Or are you saying that there is a larger
> >room off the lobby which would accommodate bothe Alter Years and the other
> >dealers as well? Off the lobby could have its advantages. BTW, I looked
> >pretty closely at the books offered by both Poison Pen and Alter Years (as
> >did Byron) and there really wasn’t a lot of overlap. It was nice having
> >the extra variety. I bought books from both of them. And speaking of
> >variety, FABRIC! We hardly ever see it in dealers rooms. If you can get a
> >fabric dealer in, that would be a good thing! (Assuming the dealer has
> >decent stuff.)
> >
> >Incidentally, if I were making the decision I wouldn’t put the dolls in
> >Dealers. Too much chance for them to get damaged, and if they’re near a
> >popular dealer, not very accessible after all.
> >
> >Tina
> > —– Original Message —–
> > From: Trudy Leonard
> > To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Monday, May 19, 2003 12:49 AM
> > Subject: Re: [runacc] Dealers Room
> >
> >
> >
> > I’m very interested in hearing everyone’s thoughts on this. Janet has
> > indicated an interest in bring her truck full of stuff to Atlanta. At
> >the
> > moment, I don’t really have anywhere to put her. Our space is at a
> >premium.
> > Even though we have the entire convention area, it ain’t that big. I
> >can
> > fit 14 tables and the doll exhibit into our dealer’s room. I could fit
> >more
> > if I put tables down the middle of the room, but I am hoping to have
> >enough
> > space for people to move comfortably. There is another space that I
> >might
> > be able to get from the hotel, but it won’t be in the convention area,
> >but
> > will be just off the hotel lobby. I would love for the folks here who
> >don’t
> > have access to a G Street, or Alter Years or some other source for all
> >the
> > historical patterns, accessories, etc, to have a chance to buy some of
> >these
> > things. On the other hand, Poison Pen is already booked as one of the
> > dealers, and I hate to lessen her sales (even if it is “business”).
> >
> > I’m not too keen on the “selling out of a hotel room” idea. I don’t
> >think
> > you would do as well if folks had to find you and not have you right
> >there
> > in the traffic flow. One of the reasons, besides space, that we are
> >putting
> > the dolls in the dealers room is to increase the traffic for both.
> >
> > Trudy
> >
> > >From: Bruce & Nora Mai <casamai@sbcglobal.net>
> > >Reply-To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> > >To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> > >Subject: [runacc] Dealers Room
> > >Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 17:15:03 -0500
> > >
> > >This is a question for Henry, but I’d like hear input from the rest of
> >you.
> > >
> > >Henry:
> > >
> > >Can you ask your Liason about any feedback they got about how the other
> > >dealers felt about Janet having a room all to herself? Our Liason
> >feels
> > >very strongly that this was very unfair to them. My position is, if
> >she’s
> > >willing to come with all her stuff, and pay appropriately, why not?
> >How
> > >important is it for AlterYears to be part of a mix, no matter how much
> >she
> > >brings? Is limiting all dealers to a certain number of tables
> >inherently
> > >fair?
> > >
> > >Thanks.
> > >
> > >Bruce
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
> > >
> > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > >runacc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*.
> > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
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> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > ADVERTISEMENT
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > runacc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
> >
> >
> >
> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
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Group: runacc Message: 204 From: henryosier@cs.com Date: 5/20/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers’ Room: Juried vs First-Come, First Served

In a message dated 5/20/2003 12:16:14 PM Central Daylight Time,
castleb@pulsenet.com writes:

> I don’t think any Costume-Con has ever had non-costuming oriented dealers
> apply for space.

We did.
Henry Osier

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 

Group: runacc Message: 205 From: Betsy Delaney Date: 5/20/2003
Subject: Space assignments and other things of note.
Some general thoughts on space allotments, including Dealer areas and
exhibits…

1. At CC9, not only were the exhibits in the dealer room, but so were
the dolls. Dealers were in the perimiter, and exhibits took up the
center of the room. Ricky, am I remembering correctly that you were
involved in the dealer room then?

I was a dealer at the time, and had a table or two. I was also the
exhibit coordinator. I recall (again, perhaps incorrectly) that there
wasn’t a flow issue, since the dealer space was sufficiently big enough,
for people to look at the dolls and costumes in the room. Since the
space was shared, security was limited to a single space. OTOH, we had
to borrow/rent stanchions (uprights with rope) to keep people from
wandering too close to costumes on display. Several of the people who
loaned costumes for exhibit required this, and were fairly unhappy until
I assured them that we would have protection for the space. Also of note
(while I’m thinking about it), we had to insure the space as well, to
get some of the costumes we did for display.

2. At CCXV, the dolls were in their own separate room from both the
dealers and the exhibits. The dealer area was in Versailles, off the
main lobby. The dealer space was very tight, and had to be redrawn at
the absolute last minute, because we didn’t have the firecode
information available when the first dealer room coordinator drew out
the plan. I recall that it took three tries for an equitable layout that
didn’t block essential doors in the room. I don’t recall comments
concerning the doll space. I do know that the space was way
underutilized.

Timeless Textiles was indeed there, and did a bang-up job of sales. We
sold space on a first come-first served basis, and I marketed the space
very heavily after our original coordinator bailed out. There was only
one issue with set-up location inside the room (making sure similar
goods weren’t sitting right next to each other). Security slept in the
room overnight. The doll contest room was locked each night, and the
entire program floor, which was only available by elevator, was also
locked off in the evening, but also (I think) had security sleeping
over.

I think we had a couple of dealers who were interested in selling
weapons (not exactly costume), and I don’t know how they did after all
that. I can honestly say that I didn’t spend much time in the dealer
area after everyone got set up (I delegated that responsibility as soon
as I could), until Monday, and then only after I got mad during the
annual meeting.

3. Were I to do it again, I would strongly recommend the first come,
first served method for selecting dealers, for one real good reason: A
dealer in the hand is worth a considerable amount of money, especially
if the cost of tables is part of how you’re paying for the space.

We were supposed to have several other rooms set aside for “corporate
sponsors” to have all to themselves. The theory was that we could get
someone like Bernina, or a pattern company, to display in that single,
exclusive, room. They could bring as much as they wanted to display, and
do whatever they wanted in the room. For the privilege, they were paying
an extra amount. I’d have to dig through my pre-con paperwork to
remember exactly what we wanted to get for that privilege, but $300-400
seems like the right figure. I believe the tables were $125 each, or
something similar.

I don’t recall if we were successful in pushing the sponsor space. I
still need to boil down the data from the con paperwork to publish on
the site, and that’s going to wait a little. I recall that it wasn’t
particularly useful, and that we wound up using one of the set-aside
rooms for something else in the long run.

4. Several things I might have done differently concerning CC21’s
layout:

a. I think I would have swapped the Registration and the Ops room, to
put registration a lot closer to the action. I might also have moved the
other activities being handled inside of Registration to the hallway
outside, on folding tables. In that room were: Information, Site
Selection, Masquerade Registration and the Costume-Con Archives spaces.
It created a real flow problem, especially at the height of masquerade
registration. Too much chaos!

And when the room closed permanently, early on Sunday because
registration was over, I had to move all my Archives stuff to the
counter on the other side of the hall from Ops anyway. Plus which, that
meant the room was unusable after registration closed.

Just another comment, concerning fan tables: I was also expecting Carl
to have a space for his ICG Archives, but I gather that this never
actually materialized. If it did, I never figured out where the display
ended up. And there wasn’t enough room in the registration space to
allow for it. There also wasn’t enough space for future CC con coms to
set up membership sales tables during the con.

b. I would probably have swapped one of the meeting spaces above ground
with the exhibits and doll contest, placing them a lot closer to the
dealer area. Workshops could easily have shifted into the room where the
exhibits were housed, and would not necessarily have suffered for it.

In general, the flow issue is a fairly big one. Keeping that flow
logical and cohesive makes it easier for people to find what they’re
looking for, especially if they’re new to CCs and already bewildered.

5. PROVIDE A MAP!!! In the Program Book! Please! With spaces identified,
clearly marked, so that people can find what they’re looking for. And
have signs printed well in advance of arrival, so that they can be
posted as soon as the con com arrive on the scene.

There’s more to come, but this is enough for now…..

Cheers,

Betsy


Betsy R. Delaney
Web Mistress at large

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Group: runacc Message: 206 From: Ricky & Karen Dick Date: 5/20/2003
Subject: Re: Space assignments and other things of note.

Betsy,

You’re right about CC-9.
I ran both in the room, exhibits and dealers.

Of course it was a pretty nifty trick that one of the dealers just happened
to be the exhibit person. YOU LOL!

so that made everybodys life easier.

That was the con where dealers that had never sent in money or anything,
just showed up, as they are/were staples of all Baltimore cons.
yikes.

I played shape shifter and through some quantum mechanics changed the size
and the shape of the room, but we got them in.
Trouble for me to be sure, but the con chairs sure liked me handing them
more money on opening day
Byron mentioned not combining things into one room so you can get the $$
for more tables, true, but it’s a matter of how much space is even
available to you.

well either way, it’s how many tables can you sell, and how can they pay
for other con space.
In columbia for sure, extra display space was limited , so merging the two
was the only way.

AT other hotels if space is cheap, then you can have three seperate rooms
if you want.

This goes to Trudy’s dilema.
Limited space, and the need for dealers, dolls, and exhibits.
and I hope somehow, everyone will know that she has this trouble, because
she was trying to keep the attendees costs down.
I mean, 18 dollars parking,if we were in the city, well for Canadians,
thats like a months pay or something.;-)

You just have to decide what percentage of available space you want for the
3 things.

once you decide on your dealers percentage ( whatever it is) you figure out
how many tables that will fit.
Thats life, thats all you got. Unless after the math, you decide to do less
something and more dealers cause cash flow is never a bad thing.

now, what is that space costing you.
lets say you put the dolls in the room for info and reg, makeing the
assumption that every body goes there at least once or twice over the
weekend, so it’ll be cool.

then your dealers and exhibits need to share space.

pretty simple.
take the cost of the room and divide it by the number of tables for dealers
you want to sell.
you need to charge that much or more.

now, you can be nice and throw in a reg with it to take the sting out if
you want, but you don’t have to.
This is supply and demand. they want to come, they pay.

If you find an extra area you want to use for a special dealer. I have no
problem with that.
just be sure to charge them at least what the hotel wants from you.

so they want 500.00 for the weekend for the old cafe space.
Alteryears needs to pay at least that.
they could get away with only paying that, cause it’s off the beaten track,
no one was going to use it anyway, etc… instead of my usual rule of pay
double what the space cost.

On the other hand, I wonder with booths and tables what displays or dolls
would be like in there……..

The tough thing about dealers room is this,

How do we balance the need and knowledge that they and we are a business,
and tough decisions need to be made on a worth it financially basis, with
the other side, how much of the dealers being there is us as a con com
doing a service to our attendees.

Thats where it gets tricky, and thats where the supply and demand thing
needs to be addressed again.
Henry and Kym had too many people for the availible space. so they didn’t
take the action figure people.

COOL!

>

but let me tell you, if I go into a hotel, and I have so much space I can’t
fill it, it’s gonna get filled with whomever has the check book.
I would never pick action figures over fabric, but if I had a huge empty
second ballroom for dealers for some reason?
well, anybody can come and take their chances, and I can use that extra
cash to fill the con suite or something.

Ricky

At 06:29 PM 5/20/2003 -0400, you wrote:

>Some general thoughts on space allotments, including Dealer areas and
>exhibits…
>
>1. At CC9, not only were the exhibits in the dealer room, but so were
>the dolls. Dealers were in the perimiter, and exhibits took up the
>center of the room. Ricky, am I remembering correctly that you were
>involved in the dealer room then?
>
>I was a dealer at the time, and had a table or two. I was also the
>exhibit coordinator. I recall (again, perhaps incorrectly) that there
>wasn’t a flow issue, since the dealer space was sufficiently big enough,
>for people to look at the dolls and costumes in the room. Since the
>space was shared, security was limited to a single space. OTOH, we had
>to borrow/rent stanchions (uprights with rope) to keep people from
>wandering too close to costumes on display. Several of the people who
>loaned costumes for exhibit required this, and were fairly unhappy until
>I assured them that we would have protection for the space. Also of note
>(while I’m thinking about it), we had to insure the space as well, to
>get some of the costumes we did for display.
>
>2. At CCXV, the dolls were in their own separate room from both the
>dealers and the exhibits. The dealer area was in Versailles, off the
>main lobby. The dealer space was very tight, and had to be redrawn at
>the absolute last minute, because we didn’t have the firecode
>information available when the first dealer room coordinator drew out
>the plan. I recall that it took three tries for an equitable layout that
>didn’t block essential doors in the room. I don’t recall comments
>concerning the doll space. I do know that the space was way
>underutilized.
>
>Timeless Textiles was indeed there, and did a bang-up job of sales. We
>sold space on a first come-first served basis, and I marketed the space
>very heavily after our original coordinator bailed out. There was only
>one issue with set-up location inside the room (making sure similar
>goods weren’t sitting right next to each other). Security slept in the
>room overnight. The doll contest room was locked each night, and the
>entire program floor, which was only available by elevator, was also
>locked off in the evening, but also (I think) had security sleeping
>over.
>
>I think we had a couple of dealers who were interested in selling
>weapons (not exactly costume), and I don’t know how they did after all
>that. I can honestly say that I didn’t spend much time in the dealer
>area after everyone got set up (I delegated that responsibility as soon
>as I could), until Monday, and then only after I got mad during the
>annual meeting.
>
>3. Were I to do it again, I would strongly recommend the first come,
>first served method for selecting dealers, for one real good reason: A
>dealer in the hand is worth a considerable amount of money, especially
>if the cost of tables is part of how you’re paying for the space.
>
>We were supposed to have several other rooms set aside for “corporate
>sponsors” to have all to themselves. The theory was that we could get
>someone like Bernina, or a pattern company, to display in that single,
>exclusive, room. They could bring as much as they wanted to display, and
>do whatever they wanted in the room. For the privilege, they were paying
>an extra amount. I’d have to dig through my pre-con paperwork to
>remember exactly what we wanted to get for that privilege, but $300-400
>seems like the right figure. I believe the tables were $125 each, or
>something similar.
>
>I don’t recall if we were successful in pushing the sponsor space. I
>still need to boil down the data from the con paperwork to publish on
>the site, and that’s going to wait a little. I recall that it wasn’t
>particularly useful, and that we wound up using one of the set-aside
>rooms for something else in the long run.
>
>4. Several things I might have done differently concerning CC21’s
>layout:
>
> a. I think I would have swapped the Registration and the Ops room, to
>put registration a lot closer to the action. I might also have moved the
>other activities being handled inside of Registration to the hallway
>outside, on folding tables. In that room were: Information, Site
>Selection, Masquerade Registration and the Costume-Con Archives spaces.
>It created a real flow problem, especially at the height of masquerade
>registration. Too much chaos!
>
>And when the room closed permanently, early on Sunday because
>registration was over, I had to move all my Archives stuff to the
>counter on the other side of the hall from Ops anyway. Plus which, that
>meant the room was unusable after registration closed.
>
>Just another comment, concerning fan tables: I was also expecting Carl
>to have a space for his ICG Archives, but I gather that this never
>actually materialized. If it did, I never figured out where the display
>ended up. And there wasn’t enough room in the registration space to
>allow for it. There also wasn’t enough space for future CC con coms to
>set up membership sales tables during the con.
>
> b. I would probably have swapped one of the meeting spaces above
> ground
>with the exhibits and doll contest, placing them a lot closer to the
>dealer area. Workshops could easily have shifted into the room where the
>exhibits were housed, and would not necessarily have suffered for it.
>
>
>In general, the flow issue is a fairly big one. Keeping that flow
>logical and cohesive makes it easier for people to find what they’re
>looking for, especially if they’re new to CCs and already bewildered.
>
>5. PROVIDE A MAP!!! In the Program Book! Please! With spaces identified,
>clearly marked, so that people can find what they’re looking for. And
>have signs printed well in advance of arrival, so that they can be
>posted as soon as the con com arrive on the scene.
>
>There’s more to come, but this is enough for now…..
>
>Cheers,
>
>Betsy
>
>–
>Betsy R. Delaney
>Web Mistress at large
>
>************************************************************************
> http://www.WebInvent.com/ * http://www.hawkeswood.com/
> http://www.Costume-Con.org/ * http://www.sickpups.org/
> http://www.SchoolWithoutWalls.org/
>************************************************************************
>
>
>View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>runacc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

 

Group: runacc Message: 207 From: Byron Connell Date: 5/20/2003
Subject: Re: Exhibits/Dealers (was Re: Dealers Room)

Except to say what you just did about the alternate effects.

Byron

—– Original Message —–
From: Andrew Trembley
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, May 19, 2003 10:57 PM
Subject: [runacc] Exhibits/Dealers (was Re: Dealers Room)

If there’s tons of space, putting exhibits in the same room as dealers
can increase traffic through exhibits, and that’s a good thing. If
space is tight, putting exhibits in the same room as dealers will
result in confusion and a traffic jam, which is a bad thing.

I don’t think this is something we can answer in anything more than the
vaguest terms in our CC Runner’s Guide.


andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 

Group: runacc Message: 208 From: Elaine Mami Date: 5/20/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers’ Room

I didn’t like it. Granted, we had quality dealers, but I would rather not
let the selection of which dealers to sell space to be open for discussion
by the whole staff. Surely there must be a better way.

I’ve never been involved in running a dealers’ room (and don’t want to
volunteer!) so I have no suggestions. Sorry. However, Devra (Poison Pen
Press) has run the Lunacon dealers’ room for a while now, and might be
willing to share some of her knowledge with us.

Elaine

>
> As a self-employed businessperson (as most dealers are), money is always
> tight. There was NO WAY I was going to pay for dealer space in advance and
> then wait *months* for the committee to decide if I actually could vend at
> the con or not.
>
> Anybody else have thoughts on a “juried” vs. “first come, first served”
> approach?

 

Group: runacc Message: 209 From: Trudy Leonard Date: 5/20/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers’ Room

Gee, I never considered “jury-ing” the dealers room. I just want to have
dealers. I might warn someone if they are carrying the same sort of stuff as
someone that I already have and let them decide if they still want to come,
but, at this point, I don’t think that I’d turn someone down. Our natural
limiter will be space.

Trudy

>From: Ricky & Karen Dick <castleb@pulsenet.com>
>Reply-To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
>To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [runacc] Dealers’ Room
>Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 11:45:26 -0400
>
>The only thing I didn’t like about the CC-21 dealer’s room took place
>before the con: the “juried” method of selecting dealers.
>
>As a self-employed businessperson (as most dealers are), money is always
>tight. There was NO WAY I was going to pay for dealer space in advance and
>then wait *months* for the committee to decide if I actually could vend at
>the con or not.
>
>Anybody else have thoughts on a “juried” vs. “first come, first served”
>approach?
>
>–Karen
>
>At 11:33 AM 5/20/2003 -0400, you wrote:
> >Hello!
> > I got this response from Kyym Kimple, the guy who ran our
>Dealers’
> >Room at CC21.
> > Henry Osier
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
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Group: runacc Message: 210 From: Bruce & Nora Mai Date: 5/21/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers’ Room — back to Janet
Some good info here, and thanks to Henry /Kyym for the feedback. Does
anyone
else have any other thoughts reagarding fairness, Janet, space, etc.? And
just out of curiosity, are there any other large dealers in the same league
with Janet?

Bruce

 

Group: runacc Message: 211 From: Martin Gear Date: 5/21/2003
Subject: Re: Space assignments and other things of note.
FWIIW –
My rule of thumb has been the same as Ricky’s i.e. if someone is going
to be in a position to make money then the charge should be twice the
actual space cost so that they can help to pay for the money pit that is
a fan run con. For profit cons like Creations and DragonCon, charge
quite a bit more both for memberships and for dealers.

I seem to recall that for CC-3 the upper ballroom was about half dealer
tables and half exhibits so the table cost was the room rental divided
by the number of tables. I’m sure that someone will correct me if I am
not remembering correctly.

^M^

 

Group: runacc Message: 212 From: Tina Connell Date: 5/21/2003
Subject: Newbies
I tried sending this as an attachmentb but Yahoo stripped it off. I think my second attempt may have only gone to Les, in response to his note. Let’s try it again.

This is somewhat dated, at least the info regarding sound media for presentations, and also doesn’t cover a lot of things, but I was trying, at CC18, to give a quick overview of the costume competition situation that might help a real newbie. At this year’s CC, there were a couple of total novices in the Green Room who were getting serious cold feet at the idea of going on stage (they had nice costumes). I especially tried to address the myth of the stand-offish big-shot costumer (as in, they’re not stuck up, they’re simply jet lagged, hungry and nervous about their presentation later in the con). It was also necessary to get it onto a single piece of paper – “War & Peace” would just scare them off. Frankly, a nice little handbook for newbies would be a nice thing to have as a handout not just at CC’s, but also at the Masq. sign-up desk at other cons. Not just the stuff below, but also a brief and not overly technical description of the tech side of things. Because I primarily do Green Room, I’m a bit vague on Stage Right/Stage Left and lighting options other than Fred, myself (and “Fred” should be explained as well, both the tech “Fred” and “The Ambassador from the planet Fred”). The more accessible we make things, the more new blood we are apt to attract.

Tina

Frequently Asked Questions: A brief primer for the new (and not-so-new) costumer

I’m new to this. I feel really nervous about…

… appearing in costume on stage.

A: We all had to start sometime. Yes, it can be scary going up on stage the first few times. Probably, every person you see up there felt that way at first (some of them who have been doing costumes for years still feel that way), but try to remember that you’re among friends at this convention.

… talking to these strangers in costume, talking to experienced costumers who may look down on me as a newbie, etc.

A: Costume fans are one of the friendliest groups of people around. Most of them love to talk to other people about costuming and costumes, especially their own costumes. On the other hand, don’t decide that someone is terminally stuck-up if they don’t want to talk to you just then: they may be on a serious sleep deficit, need caffeine or food desperately, be jet-lagged and not feeling very functional, or they may just be really, seriously, nervous about their presentation a bit later in the con and have a major set of butterflies distracting them. Just as you sometimes don’t feel like talking to people, you may also be catching the other person at a bad time.

… competing against more experienced costumers.

A: This is why the Division system was created. What is the Division system, you may ask? It is a means of separating the new or inexperienced costumers from the more experienced costumers, for purposes of judging. The judges (and audience) will recognize that a Novice costumer is likely to have less experience, and (in some cases) less well honed skills than a Journeyman, Craftsman, or Master costumer. Novices are judged in relation to other Novices, Journeymen in relation to Journeymen, and so forth. A Novice costume is not an inferior costume — on a number of occasions, Novice costumes have won Best In Show, over costumes made and presented by experienced Masters.

What do all of these things regarding the Masquerades/Competitions mean?

What is the tech (technical) rehearsal and why do I have to go to it?:

A: The tech rehearsal is very important to you. At many larger conventions, and definitely at WorldCon or Costume-Con, it is required for all entrants. It ensures that you actually see the stage you will be appearing on. Hopefully, you will also Awalk@ the stage, as well. If you have a “feel” for the space you will have available, your presentation will look better, and you are less likely to fall off the front, back or side of the stage — this is also a safety factor.

The “tech” crew really want to make you look good on stage. Unfortunately, this is harder if they have no idea what you have in mind. By going to the tech rehearsal, you will have a chance to explain to them what you want to do in terms of sound (if you brought a sound effects tape), lighting, and any other special effects they may have available. They may even make suggestions that could make your costume or presentation look better.

The MC (Master of Ceremonies/Narrator), who will be announcing your costume, will also be there. You will have a chance to talk to him or her about your presentation. If your costume introduction text has any exotic words in it, you should plan to spell them out phonetically for the MC. Any text you want read should be CLEARLY printed or typed.

Above all, no matter how much you want to surprise the audience and your fellow costumers, never, ever, surprise the masquerade director. He or she will not divulge anything about your planned presentation, but the director needs to know about anything that may be unusual or potentially unsafe. This includes things like flash powder, smoke bombs, fog machines, stuff you plan to throw around on the stage, etc., as well as any unusual props (accessories) or weapons, or unusual moves (such as leaping off the stage). Note: throwing objects out at the judges and audience is a no-no!

What is the Green Room?

A: The Green Room is the backstage area where the contestants gather as they prepare to go on stage. Check-in time usually is at least two hours before the expected curtain time. The costumers can finish getting into their costumes (if they haven=t already done so in their rooms), test their props one last time, and maybe put on or touch up their makeup. Contestants should not bring friends or family members (especially children) backstage, unless they are also going to be on stage B the Green Room is chaotic enough as it is without non-contestants milling about! Contestants are grouped in “dens,” with a Den Mom or Den Dad, who helps the costumers in his or her group. This may include helping you get into your costume, trying to calm jittery nerves, fetching water/snacks for you if your costume is bulky or awkward to get around in, and generally doing his/her best to make sure you are ready to go on stage and look great! The Green Room Manager is the overall backstage person who keeps the chaos from getting out of hand. He or she keeps track of which costumes have checked in (or not checked in yet), and makes sure that the “dens” go up on stage in the proper sequence.

Also customary in the Green Room (at least at larger conventions) is a Repair Table. It offers basic equipment to effect repairs to a costume which has developed problems. It is not there for the purpose of building/assembling/creating your costume — it is only for repairs. Typically, the repair table offers needles, threads of various colors, safety pins, bobby pins, hot glue guns, small hand tools such as pliers, adhesives, tapes, string and wire, etc., and may also include a makeup mirror and some basic makeup repair materials (again, this is for repairs or touch-ups, not to create a full makeup job). For

(Over ¸ ¸)

health/sanitary reasons, you should plan to bring your own special colors of lipstick and eye makeup. Sometimes the repair table person will have some experience with stage makeup, but you cannot rely upon this for sure. Please note: the equipment and supplies on the repair table are usually the personal property of the person at the repair table, who has kindly donated the use of them to the con; you should make every effort to return tools, etc. when you are finished using them.

Stage Aninjas@ will help you get on and off of the stage safely. If you hear someone out there in the dark say ASTOP!@, or feel a slap on your leg or ankle as you are about to leave the stage, you should stop. It probably means that you aren=t lined up for the stairs and were about to fall off the stage, because the lights were in your eyes. When you walk the stage during tech rehearsal, check to see about how many steps you can take forward (or backward) safely.

What is Workmanship Judging? Do I have to be judged for Workmanship?

A: The workmanship judge does exactly that. He or she gets “up close and personal,” looking at the special details, such as applique, beadwork, leather or metalwork, special design and construction of interest, and the many other facets that comprise superior workmanship on a costume. You do not have to present yourself to the workmanship judge. However, if there is some aspect of your costume that you feel exhibits special workmanship or ingenuity on your part, this is your opportunity to have it recognized. You do not need to have your entire costume judged for workmanship — you may elect to have just a tiny facet of your costume judged — a beaded bodice, a lovingly-hand-hammered breastplate, the cleverly designed mechanism you invented to make your wings open and close, or the gloves or shoes you made from scratch. If your costume is held together with spit and baling wire, don’t even consider it! If there are bits of detail you are really proud of, you definitely should give workmanship judging serious consideration.

What should I do about a sound track?

A: Hopefully, you already gave this some thought before you arrived at the con. The perfect bit of music can help to “make” a so-so costume, just as a poor choice of music can be jarring and may detract from an otherwise great presentation. Preferably, your sound should be on tape, not CD, for ease of cueing. It should not be recorded in “stereo” (right side different from left side), as the sound system available may not be able to play both Atracks@ — you might end up with a vital bit of your sound un-played. It should be clearly labeled with your name and your costume’s title. It should also be labeled “right side” and “wrong side”, so the tech knows which side of the tape has your sound on — there=s nothing worse than going out on stage expecting music or voice-over, only to find that your tape got put in upside down because of poor labeling. (The easiest way to avoid this is to record your sound on both sides of the tape.) The tape you hand in to the masquerade director should be already cued-up (on the Aright@ side) to the point at which you want it to start. It is best to start with a clean tape, rather than taping over an old one (which could lead to embarrassing bits of inappropriate sound-track). Put on it just what you need for your presentation, rather than an entire song/piece of music, to also ensure that what you want will be played. If your tape is properly labeled, it should be easy to get it back to you after the masquerade. If you didn’t bring a tape with you, sometimes “tech” can help you out — frequently, they have a variety of suitable sound bits that they can play, if you work with them (see “Tech Rehearsal,” above).

What’s all this about “Presentation”?

A: How you look and move on stage helps you show your costume to the audience and judges, and helps to convey the costume=s mood or story. Yes, you can just walk on stage, and then walk off the other side, but this won=t show off the work you put into your costume (see also, Tech Rehearsal – walking the stage). Your movements on stage should be planned to let the judges and audience see the back of the costume as well as the front, and show off any special decoration or details. At the very least, plan to move in a circle on stage, to show the back and sides of your costume as well as the front. Stay in character: if you’re a warrior, stomp; if you’re a princess, be regal; if you=re a cat, slink and prowl. Your movements will set the tone of your costume. Think of it as Amethod acting.@ One more thing — remember that the judges are sitting with their eyes at about the level of your ankles or knees B don=t forget to hem your costume and wear appropriate footgear.

Why is there a time limit on stage?

A: It may not seem like it, but when you=re up there on stage, a minute is a LOOONNNGGG time! Unless you have a sizable group, it only takes half or three-quarters of a minute to do a little Astage business@ and go off. The longer you stay on stage, the better a Astory@ you should have your costume and presentation tell; if you bore the audience/judges, you lose them. Dances or martial arts displays that go on forever are booorrring! One of the sayings in costume fandom is Ashort is good; funny is better; short and funny is best.@ While that isn=t always the case (there are plenty of serious costumes), it does express the general idea.

I just saw someone walk up to another costumer and say AI hate you!!@ That doesn=t sound very friendly to me!

A: It may seem strange, but that phrase is one of the ultimate accolades in costume fandom, along with AYou=re despicable!!@ What it really means is AYou=ve got a killer costume that I can=t possibly win against, and I should be jealous, but it=s SO great that I love it!@ Costumers enjoy and respect a great costume and great workmanship, even when it=s not their own B that=s what this is all about!

NOW, most important of all, go out and have FUN!!! Oh, and don=t forget to eat something and get some sleep!!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 

Group: runacc Message: 213 From: Elaine Mami Date: 5/21/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers’ Room — back to Janet

I would imagine that the most likely dealers in the “large space needed”
category would be fabric dealers. Especially if they are going to cut
fabric.

Elaine

> just out of curiosity, are there any other large dealers in the same

league

> with Janet?
>

 

Group: runacc Message: 214 From: Andrew Trembley Date: 5/21/2003
Subject: Re: Newbies
Great document, Tina. Going back to Allison’s letter (seem to be
referencing her a lot these days) we’re missing something important at
the beginning.

“What is a Masquerade?”

It’s probably not what you think. It’s not a masked ball or costume
ball. It’s an opportunity to present your costume and compete for
awards. It’s an opportunity to watch others present costumes.

Masquerades, as we know them, are born out of a long history of
costuming at science fiction conventions, and have evolved greatly over
the last few decades. You may participate as an audience member, an
entrant, or volunteer to be a member of the crew.

<rules> (basically, instructions to find them and read them)

<presentation info>
<styles>
<music>
<time limit>

<judging info>
<divisions>
<workmanship>

<at-con requirements and services>
<registration>
<tech rehearsal>
<green room>
<stage crew>


andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen
http://www.bovil.com/
“It’s not pink; it’s peach-colored. Pink is tacky.” –Manfred Pfirsich
Marie Rommel

 

Group: runacc Message: 215 From: Elaine Mami Date: 5/21/2003
Subject: Re: Newbies
Really good, Tina, and not as outdated as you think. Very little work will
bring it up-to-date.

Elaine

 

Group: runacc Message: 216 From: Byron Connell Date: 5/21/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers’ Room — back to Janet

While they’re not necessarily in the same league as AlterYears, most dealers in fabric need a lot of space by virtue of the nature of their wares. Fabric dealers would seem to be prime candidates for a CC dealers’ room.

Byron

—– Original Message —–
From: Bruce & Nora Mai
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2003 11:41 PM
Subject: Re: [runacc] Dealers’ Room — back to Janet

Some good info here, and thanks to Henry /Kyym for the feedback. Does
anyone
else have any other thoughts reagarding fairness, Janet, space, etc.? And
just out of curiosity, are there any other large dealers in the same league
with Janet?

Bruce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 

Group: runacc Message: 217 From: Cliff and Eileen Date: 5/22/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers Room
As a convention attendee, I much prefer to see all the dealers in one
location.

On the issue of having Alter Years take up half the space, it was not an
issue for the customers, but I did get the impression at CC21 that some of
the dealers were grumbling. (I think in fact Janet was in competition with
almost everyone in the other room.)

This might seem less pronounced if Alter Years is as far away from the other
dealers as Trudy is suggesting. They may seem like a different feature
entirely. The real test will be whether or not it becomes difficult to
convince other dealers to come in future years if they feel Alter Years’
presence will make it financially not worth their trip.

CC19 had intentionally tried to balance the dealers’ room by having only one
of each type of dealer. The room was not “juried” but it was a case of
“first come” for each type of vendor, due to space limitations. (I think
this system would have worked if the dealers’ room had not been hit by a
black hole of bad luck. We actually had almost twice as many dealers pull
out due to personal or professional disasters than we had present in the
final dealers’ room.)

Therefore we moved the dolls into that room to fill the space, although that
had not originally been the intended home for them. In the end we had a
much larger doll competition than expected so the original space would have
been inadequate. I believe in our case the combination worked both to show
off the doll competition and to draw customers into the room. It only
worked though because we had a big enough room (and few enough remaining
dealers) to accommodate both without crowding.

Eileen

 

Group: runacc Message: 218 From: Cliff and Eileen Date: 5/22/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers Room
Timeless Textiles were one of the dealers who had to back out of CC19. (My
memory is hazy on this one but I think that their disaster was a theft from
their warehouse.) In general they seem eager to do CC’s, and were not even
afraid of crossing the border with their stock.

Local fabric stores, who are not used to a CC, are not very willing to
commit a staffperson to a weekend convention, even less than their stock.

Eileen

—–Original Message—–
From: Ricky & Karen Dick [mailto:castleb@pulsenet.com]

CCXV had Timeless Textiles (also somebody with vintage “ethnic” textiles)
and I think they did a boffo business.

Obviously, fabric can take up a LOT of space in a very short time, and
local fabric stores may not be keen on packing up their inventory to schlep
to a con. But fabric always does well.

–Karen

 

Group: runacc Message: 219 From: Betsy Delaney Date: 5/22/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers Room

I think Timeless Textiles did such a bang-up business at CCXV that
they’ve tried to make a point of showing up when they could. OTOH, I’m
not sure if they’re still in business. Their web site went down last
year, and I haven’t checked to see if they’re back again.

Fabric (especially unusual stuff or natural fiber stuff) generally sells
well. Put that with a trim dealer and Janet’s stuff, and you’ve got
costume on the hoof, right there at the source of the inspiration.

Less successful accessories include ready-made costumes. Better stuff:
trims, notions and findings.

YMMV.

Betsy

Cliff and Eileen wrote:

>
> Timeless Textiles were one of the dealers who had to back out of CC19. (My
> memory is hazy on this one but I think that their disaster was a theft from
> their warehouse.) In general they seem eager to do CC’s, and were not even
> afraid of crossing the border with their stock.
>
> Local fabric stores, who are not used to a CC, are not very willing to
> commit a staffperson to a weekend convention, even less than their stock.
>
> Eileen


Betsy R. Delaney
Web Mistress at large

************************************************************************
http://www.WebInvent.com/ * http://www.hawkeswood.com/
http://www.Costume-Con.org/ * http://www.sickpups.org/
http://www.SchoolWithoutWalls.org/
************************************************************************

 

Group: runacc Message: 220 From: Andrew Trembley Date: 5/22/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers Room

On Thursday, May 22, 2003, at 03:15 PM, Betsy Delaney wrote:

> Fabric (especially unusual stuff or natural fiber stuff) generally
> sells
> well. Put that with a trim dealer and Janet’s stuff, and you’ve got
> costume on the hoof, right there at the source of the inspiration.

So the sick thing to do would be to ask the dealers if they would be
willing to spend an extra $10/table to throw into an award pot, the
contest being to make a costume entirely at the con only from materials
bought in the dealer’s room.

Assuming the dealers’ room has enough tables and dealers to support
this sort of thing.

andy


Andy Trembley, Bull-in-Drag
The Bovine Illuminati (It’s the Cows, Inc.)
http://www.bovil.com/
Moo!

 

Group: runacc Message: 221 From: Ricky & Karen Dick Date: 5/22/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers Room

At 06:15 PM 5/22/2003 -0400, you wrote:

>I think Timeless Textiles did such a bang-up business at CCXV that
>they’ve tried to make a point of showing up when they could. OTOH, I’m
>not sure if they’re still in business. Their web site went down last
>year, and I haven’t checked to see if they’re back again.

If they aren’t, a former employee, Brad Dunn, gets his stock from the same
mills and would probably be happy to deal at cons if they don’t conflict
with his schedule. He deals every year at Pennsic and is very reliable
(this after we had MAJOR problems with mail delivery from TT–they were
fine at cons, but trying to mailorder stuff from them was a nightmare).

I have his address and phone # if any concoms are interested.

>Less successful accessories include ready-made costumes. Better stuff:
>trims, notions and findings.

But people WILL buy accessories if they are *accessories* and not full
costumes. Jewelry, greaves/bracers, headbands, corsets, etc. Impulse items
that are cool, but not a whole costume and not necessarily things they
would make for themselves.

–Karen

 

Group: runacc Message: 222 From: Les Roth Date: 5/22/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers Room

Betsy,

On Thursday, May 22, 2003, at 05:15 PM, Betsy Delaney wrote:

> I think Timeless Textiles did such a bang-up business at CCXV that
> they’ve tried to make a point of showing up when they could. OTOH, I’m
> not sure if they’re still in business. Their web site went down last
> year, and I haven’t checked to see if they’re back again.
>

According to the website at :
http://www.houseofanoria.com/Timeless_Fabrics.htm

“House Of Anoria Has Joined Forces With Timeless Fabrics – aka Timeless
Textiles & The Fabric Finders For ALL your costuming needs”

I don’t know if it’s the same people, but their stock looks like it
might be.

Les

Live, never to be ashamed if everything you do is published around the
world. Even if what is published is not true. — Richard Bach

 

Group: runacc Message: 223 From: Bruce & Nora Mai Date: 5/22/2003
Subject: Re: Newbies stuff from Tina

I’ll hav eto see if I can dig up a copy of the first-timers doc I created.
Might be useful to throw this into a mix.

Bruce

—– Original Message —–
From: “Tina Connell” <cvconnel@nycap.rr.com>
To: <runacc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2003 4:44 PM
Subject: [runacc] Newbies

I tried sending this as an attachmentb but Yahoo stripped it off. I think
my second attempt may have only gone to Les, in response to his note. Let’s
try it again.

 

Group: runacc Message: 224 From: Tina Connell Date: 5/23/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers Room

Oooo! That’s a neat idea. Most of the dealers would like it, because it would encourage sales. Enough costumers should like it for it to work – there’s always somebody who decided not to make a costume for “this year”, or whose costume wasn’t ready or someone in their group couldn’t make it. When would they display them/be judged? Since they’d need a reasonable amount of time, perhaps adjacent to the last otherwise-scheduled competition (usually the Historical), or the Folio, since (unlike this year) that’s usually a bit sparse for entries? You would need to have at least one dealer who had fabric or some equivalent (leather, plastic, whatever), though now that I think about it, it shouldn’t be too difficult (if somewhat on the pricey side) to make something completely out of trims.

Is anyone keeping a side-list of suggested program items (such as this) that could be included in an appendix to “How to Run a CC”?

Tina

—– Original Message —–
From: Andrew Trembley
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2003 6:59 PM
Subject: Re: [runacc] Dealers Room

On Thursday, May 22, 2003, at 03:15 PM, Betsy Delaney wrote:
> Fabric (especially unusual stuff or natural fiber stuff) generally
> sells
> well. Put that with a trim dealer and Janet’s stuff, and you’ve got
> costume on the hoof, right there at the source of the inspiration.

So the sick thing to do would be to ask the dealers if they would be
willing to spend an extra $10/table to throw into an award pot, the
contest being to make a costume entirely at the con only from materials
bought in the dealer’s room.

Assuming the dealers’ room has enough tables and dealers to support
this sort of thing.

andy


Andy Trembley, Bull-in-Drag
The Bovine Illuminati (It’s the Cows, Inc.)
http://www.bovil.com/
Moo!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 

Group: runacc Message: 225 From: Betsy Delaney Date: 5/23/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers Room and discussion progress

I’m not throwing out any of the messages we’re passing around, but I’m
not compiling anything yet.

I’m down to CC17 and CC19, plus compiling the awards and participant
lists for CC20 and 21. As soon as I’m done (and CC19 is being worked on
right now), I’m going to upload the new site. Then I need to go through
the links page and dump the cobwebs (Thanks, Les, for the new link), at
which point I can concentrate some time on drafting text for the
document.

There has been a TON of good discussion on this list so far. I’m
thankful that people are participating so well and exchanging such
useful information. Now, we need to start drafting stuff for the
document.

Tina, that FAQ is terrific!

There’s already a Dealer doc up on the draft. Would someone care to
compile the comments and suggestions and edit the existing content?

Thanks!

Betsy

Tina Connell wrote:

>
> Is anyone keeping a side-list of suggested program items (such as this) that could be included in an appendix to “How to Run a CC”?
>
> Tina


Betsy R. Delaney
Web Mistress at large

************************************************************************
http://www.WebInvent.com/ * http://www.hawkeswood.com/
http://www.Costume-Con.org/ * http://www.sickpups.org/
http://www.SchoolWithoutWalls.org/
************************************************************************

 

Group: runacc Message: 226 From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger Date: 5/25/2003
Subject: photography
Another issue to address is photography. Sandy and I just spent an
inordinate amount of time ordering photographs from the official
photographer from CC21. It quite literally took us 3 days to do. The photos
were arranged by photographer, not by costume and covered 14 pages on the
website. What we had to do was print all 14 pages of thumbnails, mark the
back of each thumbnail with the page number, then cut them out and group
them by costume so we could select which shots we wanted.

The cost, as well, was prohibitive to most people. We’re lucky to be flush
enough to drop over $300 on a set with at least one view of each
competition costume. Most aren’t.

We did, by the way, purchase the CD with all the photos. We got it awhile
ago and put it in to see if it would help us choose the best shots. It was
arranged as an Adobe PDF slide show, which also requires that you have the
Adobe Image Player software installed. Granted, it’s free, but if you
don’t want to (or can’t) download new software, you’re SOL. As far as we
can tell, there is no way to select individual shots. You can only play the
slide show. So the photos only stay on the screen for a short time. You can
only start at the beginning. And you can only stop by pressing CNTL-ALT-DEL.

It should be strongly recommended in the future that photography’s goals are

1. A production of archival material easily available for storage and access

2. Availability of photographs for the attendees at a reasonable cost
(reasonable is ~$1.00-1.50 per 4×6 print)

3. Availability of a portfolio of all photographs taken for a cost
significantly less than (price per single print) x (number of total shots)

Similar issues involve video though we haven’t had such a situation with
video yet thanks to folks like Carl, Rusty Dawe and others.

Pierre

“Those Who Fail To Learn History
Are Doomed To Repeat It;
Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly–
Why They Are Simply Doomed.”

Achemdro’hm
“The Illusion of Historical Fact”
— C.Y. 4971

Andromeda

 

Group: runacc Message: 227 From: Bruce & Nora Mai Date: 5/26/2003
Subject: Re: photography

Ahh, a subject I must address.
The photographers at CC21 were quite good and thorough but their prices and
ordering system were less than ideal.
I agree with all of Pierre’s points.
Personally we haven’t actually ordered any photos yet (although I intend to
order at least a few) because we discovered a little quirk in the pricing on
the site.
I sent the following message to Henry on May 21st (haven’t heard back yet
but it is the holiday weekend).

>The Digital Focus link (provided by Glen) is actually DotPhoto.
>The prices on the actual link page are $2.50 per 4 x 6 but if you use the
>’contact us’ link it goes further onto the DotPhoto site where 4 x 6’s are
>only $.29 each.
>If you put something in the Cart it totals up at $2.50 per, but the sidebar
>still says $.29 each.
>So which is it? I think you really need to quiz these people because I

think

>many people will hesitate to order until this is a little clearer.

Nora
Also, we were told $2 each for a 4×6 at the con (which was bad enough) and
then it said $2.50 on the site. Blatant misrepresentation.

 

Group: runacc Message: 228 From: Trudy Leonard Date: 5/26/2003
Subject: Re: photography

Ken Warren is the official photographer for CC22. Having seen Ken’s
work at many other cons, I’ve always been pretty pleased with his work, and
unless he’s changed the way he does things, I think he wiil be closer to
your recommendations.

Trudy

>From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger <costumrs@radiks.net>
>Reply-To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
>To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [runacc] photography
>Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 09:05:50 -0500
>
>Another issue to address is photography. Sandy and I just spent an
>inordinate amount of time ordering photographs from the official
>photographer from CC21. It quite literally took us 3 days to do. The photos
>were arranged by photographer, not by costume and covered 14 pages on the
>website. What we had to do was print all 14 pages of thumbnails, mark the
>back of each thumbnail with the page number, then cut them out and group
>them by costume so we could select which shots we wanted.
>
>The cost, as well, was prohibitive to most people. We’re lucky to be flush
>enough to drop over $300 on a set with at least one view of each
>competition costume. Most aren’t.
>
>We did, by the way, purchase the CD with all the photos. We got it awhile
>ago and put it in to see if it would help us choose the best shots. It was
>arranged as an Adobe PDF slide show, which also requires that you have the
>Adobe Image Player software installed. Granted, it’s free, but if you
>don’t want to (or can’t) download new software, you’re SOL. As far as we
>can tell, there is no way to select individual shots. You can only play the
>slide show. So the photos only stay on the screen for a short time. You can
>only start at the beginning. And you can only stop by pressing
>CNTL-ALT-DEL.
>
>It should be strongly recommended in the future that photography’s goals
>are
>
>1. A production of archival material easily available for storage and
>access
>
>2. Availability of photographs for the attendees at a reasonable cost
>(reasonable is ~$1.00-1.50 per 4×6 print)
>
>3. Availability of a portfolio of all photographs taken for a cost
>significantly less than (price per single print) x (number of total shots)
>
>
>Similar issues involve video though we haven’t had such a situation with
>video yet thanks to folks like Carl, Rusty Dawe and others.
>
>
>Pierre
>
>
>
>”Those Who Fail To Learn History
>Are Doomed To Repeat It;
>Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly–
>Why They Are Simply Doomed.”
>
>Achemdro’hm
>”The Illusion of Historical Fact”
>– C.Y. 4971
>
>Andromeda
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus

 

Group: runacc Message: 229 From: Betsy Delaney Date: 5/27/2003
Subject: Re: photography – more comments

It’s my suggestion that whenever a relationship is established with a
“vendor” who is serving your con, you make a paper agreement with the
“vendor.” This includes video, photo or any other service you’re
eventually going to offer to your members.

I’ve got a version of the agreement I had with Ken Warren for the photo
package he offered buried somewhere in my paperwork for CCXV. I’ll need
to dig it up. We did something similar for video.

That way, you’re clear on what the service provider is going to give you
and what you’re going to have to pay for.

Things to consider when arranging for archival recording of events:

1. There are two archives and they are completely separate: The Pat and
Peggy Kennedy Memorial Archives (attached to the ICG), and the
Costume-Con Archives (maintained by me). In the past few years, I’ve
made a personal arrangement with each CC to provide a set of photos and
videos for the CC Archives. Until last year, I didn’t have a problem
with getting a complete set of photos (though the photos were not always
prints – CC19 or Greg Bradt donated a free CD-ROM of the photos).

2. There are more things that should be photographed than just the
Friday Night Social and the costume competitions. For CC17, 18 and 21, I
personally photographed the doll contest and exhibits. At CC19, the
dolls were photographed by Greg (I think). These things should also be
photographed for archival purposes. So should any other static
competitions. The need to have them photographed must be communicated to
the official photographer. Don’t make assumptions. There are no official
shots of the CCXV doll contest, and so there are no photos to go with
the competition list.

3. We had to spend an unanticipated amount of money to have our video
for CCXV edited by someone other than the videographer. We made the
dollar amount back in the sale of the videos, but what could have been
an additional income maker for future CCs instead became a
near-liability. Be sure that you’ve got the complete outline of costs
associated with producing anything out of your own CC’s pocket. If the
videographer is taking care of the whole thing then you have less to
worry about, but it’s still a good idea to get the expectations down in
writing.

4. I’ve also been promised a complete set of digital disks from all of
the photographs, separate from the disk they were sending to people who
ordered them. If worse comes to worst, I’ll be using the prints and
scanning them in. Not a lovely prospect. And if they’re so concerned
about copyright and copy protection, it could well be that the digital
disks won’t be of any use to me for the web site. It also needs to be
made clear to the photographers that the photos will be published, and
to be sure that rights to publish those photos have been allowed for
your conference and for the Archive site.

Regarding CC21: I’m still not clear on what I’m ultimately going to get.
I’ve purchased about a third of the complete set of photos available
online. (I agree completely that the method by which the costume shots
were displayed was completely unacceptable, but in talking to the
photographer, I’ve been told that it was the only way they could put up
the shots so fast.) Most of the photos are okay, but I had very little
time to make the decision on which photos I wanted. I’m still waiting
for reimbursement from the con com, though I’ve been told that it’s on
the way.

Betsy

Trudy Leonard wrote:

>
> Ken Warren is the official photographer for CC22. Having seen Ken’s
> work at many other cons, I’ve always been pretty pleased with his work, and
> unless he’s changed the way he does things, I think he wiil be closer to
> your recommendations.
>
> Trudy
>
> >From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger <costumrs@radiks.net>
> >Reply-To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> >To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: [runacc] photography
> >Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 09:05:50 -0500
> >
> >Another issue to address is photography. Sandy and I just spent an
> >inordinate amount of time ordering photographs from the official
> >photographer from CC21. It quite literally took us 3 days to do. The photos
> >were arranged by photographer, not by costume and covered 14 pages on the
> >website. What we had to do was print all 14 pages of thumbnails, mark the
> >back of each thumbnail with the page number, then cut them out and group
> >them by costume so we could select which shots we wanted.
> >
> >The cost, as well, was prohibitive to most people. We’re lucky to be flush
> >enough to drop over $300 on a set with at least one view of each
> >competition costume. Most aren’t.
> >
> >We did, by the way, purchase the CD with all the photos. We got it awhile
> >ago and put it in to see if it would help us choose the best shots. It was
> >arranged as an Adobe PDF slide show, which also requires that you have the
> >Adobe Image Player software installed. Granted, it’s free, but if you
> >don’t want to (or can’t) download new software, you’re SOL. As far as we
> >can tell, there is no way to select individual shots. You can only play the
> >slide show. So the photos only stay on the screen for a short time. You can
> >only start at the beginning. And you can only stop by pressing
> >CNTL-ALT-DEL.
> >
> >It should be strongly recommended in the future that photography’s goals
> >are
> >
> >1. A production of archival material easily available for storage and
> >access
> >
> >2. Availability of photographs for the attendees at a reasonable cost
> >(reasonable is ~$1.00-1.50 per 4×6 print)
> >
> >3. Availability of a portfolio of all photographs taken for a cost
> >significantly less than (price per single print) x (number of total shots)
> >
> >
> >Similar issues involve video though we haven’t had such a situation with
> >video yet thanks to folks like Carl, Rusty Dawe and others.
> >
> >
> >Pierre
> >
> >
> >
> >”Those Who Fail To Learn History
> >Are Doomed To Repeat It;
> >Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly–
> >Why They Are Simply Doomed.”
> >
> >Achemdro’hm
> >”The Illusion of Historical Fact”
> >– C.Y. 4971
> >
> >Andromeda
> >
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
>
>
> View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> runacc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Betsy R. Delaney
Web Mistress at large

************************************************************************
http://www.WebInvent.com/ * http://www.hawkeswood.com/
http://www.Costume-Con.org/ * http://www.sickpups.org/
http://www.SchoolWithoutWalls.org/
************************************************************************

 

Group: runacc Message: 230 From: Ricky & Karen Dick Date: 5/27/2003
Subject: Re: photography

TRudy, Ken is an excellent choice.

We just re ran in exibit only the 5 center costumes from Crimson King, at
Balticon, not only to try to help fill their Masq., but mainly to have Ken
take photos of us.

Not only did they come out great, we had some to take home with us.

Ricky
At 07:44 PM 5/26/2003 -0400, you wrote:

> Ken Warren is the official photographer for CC22. Having seen Ken’s
>work at many other cons, I’ve always been pretty pleased with his work, and
>unless he’s changed the way he does things, I think he wiil be closer to
>your recommendations.
>
>Trudy
>

 

Group: runacc Message: 231 From: henryosier@cs.com Date: 5/27/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers Room
Trudy, and all,
One thing that we asked our dealers was if they wanted tables, or
just the space. It was a combination, but a good question to ask. I also suggest
that when your dealers’ room person comes up with the layout, get it to the
hotel ASAP, and possibly in your contract.
Henry Osier

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 

Group: runacc Message: 232 From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger Date: 5/28/2003
Subject: Re: photography

At 06:44 PM 5/26/2003, you wrote:

> Ken Warren is the official photographer for CC22. Having seen Ken’s
>work at many other cons, I’ve always been pretty pleased with his work, and
>unless he’s changed the way he does things, I think he wiil be closer to
>your recommendations.
>
>Trudy

Ken has always been superb and I have no qualms with him as the C-C22
official photographer

Pierre

> >From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger <costumrs@radiks.net>
> >Reply-To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> >To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: [runacc] photography
> >Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 09:05:50 -0500
> >
> >Another issue to address is photography. Sandy and I just spent an
> >inordinate amount of time ordering photographs from the official
> >photographer from CC21. It quite literally took us 3 days to do. The photos
> >were arranged by photographer, not by costume and covered 14 pages on the
> >website. What we had to do was print all 14 pages of thumbnails, mark the
> >back of each thumbnail with the page number, then cut them out and group
> >them by costume so we could select which shots we wanted.
> >
> >The cost, as well, was prohibitive to most people. We’re lucky to be flush
> >enough to drop over $300 on a set with at least one view of each
> >competition costume. Most aren’t.
> >
> >We did, by the way, purchase the CD with all the photos. We got it awhile
> >ago and put it in to see if it would help us choose the best shots. It was
> >arranged as an Adobe PDF slide show, which also requires that you have the
> >Adobe Image Player software installed. Granted, it’s free, but if you
> >don’t want to (or can’t) download new software, you’re SOL. As far as we
> >can tell, there is no way to select individual shots. You can only play the
> >slide show. So the photos only stay on the screen for a short time. You can
> >only start at the beginning. And you can only stop by pressing
> >CNTL-ALT-DEL.
> >
> >It should be strongly recommended in the future that photography’s goals
> >are
> >
> >1. A production of archival material easily available for storage and
> >access
> >
> >2. Availability of photographs for the attendees at a reasonable cost
> >(reasonable is ~$1.00-1.50 per 4×6 print)
> >
> >3. Availability of a portfolio of all photographs taken for a cost
> >significantly less than (price per single print) x (number of total shots)
> >
> >
> >Similar issues involve video though we haven’t had such a situation with
> >video yet thanks to folks like Carl, Rusty Dawe and others.
> >
> >
> >Pierre
> >
> >
> >
> >”Those Who Fail To Learn History
> >Are Doomed To Repeat It;
> >Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly–
> >Why They Are Simply Doomed.”
> >
> >Achemdro’hm
> >”The Illusion of Historical Fact”
> >– C.Y. 4971
> >
> >Andromeda
> >
> >
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*
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“Those Who Fail To Learn History
Are Doomed To Repeat It;
Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly–
Why They Are Simply Doomed.”

Achemdro’hm
“The Illusion of Historical Fact”
— C.Y. 4971

Andromeda

 

Group: runacc Message: 233 From: JBdashoff@aol.com Date: 5/29/2003
Subject: Re: Green Room
Dear all,
Bobbi Gear mentioned that she had several neos as staff/den mommies in
the Green Room this year. It does not appear to have been much of a problem
except…
Very few entrants went to see the workmanship judges. And for entrants
who arrived late, it was not a priority. The workmanship judges expressed the
regret that more of the entrants had not come to see them, since they believe
from what they did see at a distance that they could have given more awards.
This year’s Arisia also had several neo-mommies. I had been a den mommy
before so I took the initiative to write a check list for the two or three
neos and it seemed to have helped.
First, each den parent should have a list by entry number and title of
every one in their den. The check-in person usually prepares this.
My list included the status checks a den parent should remind/enforce an
entrant to do.
It included official photography, and details for the ninjas like an odd
entrance or exit that the rest of the staff need.
Gentle reminders for their own health and safety like drinks and snacks,
bathroom, repair table, no anachronisms (give me your watch, eyeglasses,
convention badge to hold for you).
And the strong encouragement to see the workmanship judge(s), because
after putting all your effort into constructing the costume, there must be some
part you are especially proud of making happen.
I’m sure I’ve forgotten something.

I heard reports the work aprons for the den mommies were useful at
Lunacon to identify the mommies/dens to the participants. I believe Balticon used
sign posts with the den numbers. Could someone else speak to this?
Joni Dashoff

PS Andy, you’re right ..if you tell the MD you’re available, they can act
(or not) and appoint you a judge. Of course, it helps to have all the masters on
site involved in a masquerade (re)presentation. Thank you to Karen and Ricky,
et al. that glimpse of wonder.

 

Group: runacc Message: 234 From: Martin Gear Date: 5/29/2003
Subject: Re: Green Room
RE Joani’s comments on the Balticon Green Room –
The group that screamed the loudest about not being judged for
workmanship arrived in the Green Room after the Workmanship Judges had
left to be introduced. This group is experienced enough to know that if
they want workmanship judging they need to get down to the green room
more than 3 minutes before the start of the masquerade. On the other
hand, there were several neos who did not know that workmanship judging
is optional and that they have to go to the workmanship judges on their
own. We plan to make some changes to the sign-up forms and include a
Workmanship Judging form with instructions for next year.

Bobby had the bright pink den signs and I know that she had borrowed
Vivki’s bright green Den Mom aprons, but since I wasn’t in the green
room I don’t know if they got used or not.

One bit of kvetch — If we don’t get more than 15 entries in our
masquerade, I’m not sure that the expense for tech and green room can be
justified to the con. Does anybody out there have any constructive
thoughts about how we can get more people to compete?

^M^

 

Group: runacc Message: 235 From: Betsy Delaney Date: 5/29/2003
Subject: Costume-ConNections going down momentarily. Drum roll, please!
Hi, folks!

This message is being crossposted for widest dispersal. If you want to
forward this message offlist, please feel free, as long as you send the
whole darn thing.

In just a few short minutes, I’m going to replace the current home page
of http://www.Costume-Con.org/ with a place-holder. Then, when I’m done
doublechecking links, I’m going to reload all 5,000 or so files in the
current site.

When I’m done, you will notice:

* Links to all participants and awards from every page, including
complete photo indices for each CC that has photos available online
* Updated information on CC21 and CC20 (including masquerade
participants for both)
* Updated information on the Timeline, including official information on
CC24 and unofficial bids through CC26
* A wider format for all pages, allowing for better display on larger
monitors

FYI: Digital versions of the photos have been requested for CC21 and
prints are already in my hands. CC21 video should be in my hands
shortly. CC10 and CC12 photos are also in my hands. All will be added
AFTER the new site launches.

If you notice anything weird (broken pages, missing content, malformed
stuff) AFTER I announce the relaunch, please contact me ASAP!

Thanks in advance for your patience and understanding.

Cheers,

Betsy

Betsy R. Delaney
Web Mistress at large

************************************************************************
http://www.WebInvent.com/ * http://www.hawkeswood.com/
http://www.Costume-Con.org/ * http://www.sickpups.org/
http://www.SchoolWithoutWalls.org/
************************************************************************

 

Group: runacc Message: 236 From: Ricky & Karen Dick Date: 5/29/2003
Subject: Re: Green Room

>Marty,

in addition to the things we chatted about at the con,
Does the con com care about whether the entries are for show or for
exhibiton? Do they just care about how many entries overall?
hopefully they just want a big masq and a good show to warrant the budget.

For us, we’ll be happy to display something for you each year if we can’t
get something new done.

Most of that is because of the switch in Balticon to After most costume cons.
I would have been happy to compete the 5 characters of Crimson King at
Balticon, then take the whole unfair large group professional entry to
costume con.
But that isn’t possible anymore.

I know that for myself, and at least Carol Salemi, we view Balticon as
‘home’ and will gladly exhibit something to help fill the masq if it will help.

and if it will, then do we need to start making calls to any known
costumers attending Balticon, asking them to just help fill out the show if
there’s nothing new to compete.

I was also wondering about folks bringing display costumes that might not
have ever seen a Balticon, even if they don’t fit anymore.
I know that our 2 den moms are brand new, and would have loved to go on
stage for a fiorst time with no win pressure or even , my first costume is
being judged pressure, as it would be a display of someone else work.

an example, at CC11 Karen sold off a bunch of her old stuff.
all con worn, and most won something out in California.
Faith Baker has one or two.
Would it be cool if she wore it in display and it was announced that it was
from the Equicon Fashion Show 1975 in LA?

And I hope this is okay on this list.
Balticon was always a BIG feeder con for CC costumes, and if we loose it,
CCon the east coast is in trouble.

I’m sure Andy and Kevin will be trying to seed as much of Baycon between
now and CC-26 for the same reason.

Ricky

>One bit of kvetch — If we don’t get more than 15 entries in our
>masquerade, I’m not sure that the expense for tech and green room can be
>justified to the con. Does anybody out there have any constructive
>thoughts about how we can get more people to compete?
>
>^M^
>
>
>
>
>View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>runacc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

 

Group: runacc Message: 237 From: Kevin Roche Date: 5/29/2003
Subject: Re: Green Room

>
> I’m sure Andy and Kevin will be trying to seed as much of Baycon between
> now and CC-26 for the same reason.
>

Thanks to our friends the Stitchin’ Babes, our anime contacts, our Furry
contacts, andsoforthandsoforth…

1) The BayCon masquerade may have grown enough that the concom will finally
have to let go of its repressed hostility towards on-stage masquerades and
improve the support system… plus get rid of the gawd-awful names “Novice”
and “Professional” for their two divisions. We’ve got a very
audience-conscious MD in place now who knows costumers and is asking for our
advice, so cross your fingers. We’re trying to help Hilary stay true to the
Baycon concom’s professed wish to run a “beginner-friendly” masquerade,
while coaxing them away from the “costumer-unfriendly” habits they’ve
developed. The last couple of years are really putting the pressure on the
concom to put their money where their mouths are.

2) We’re going to work hard with our friends keeping the costume programming
high profile and high quality at BayCon, and keep some coverage for the year
that CC is Memorial Day weekend (the source of much of the concom oft-denied
hostility)

3) We’ve got groups (see above) coming out of the woodwork asking what they
can do to make sure our bid comes off. A very good sign.

Kevin

 

Group: runacc Message: 238 From: Martin Gear Date: 5/29/2003
Subject: Re: Green Room

Ricky & Karen Dick wrote:

>> Marty,
>

<snip>

> Does the con com care about whether the entries are for show or for
> exhibiton? Do they just care about how many entries overall?
> hopefully they just want a big masq and a good show to warrant the
> budget.
>

That’s basically it. The masquerade is the BIG attraction for Saturday
night as well as being where we get most of the money for R.I.F. If we
can keep people entertained for 2 to 2-1/2 hours, then I don’t think
that there will be any bitching from the con com. Figure half an hour
for the Young Writers’ and Compton Crook awards, 45 minutes to an hour
for the RIF auction /(Judging), and 15 minutes for the Masquerade
awards, that means that I need 45 minutes to an hour worth of costumes
going across the stage at a minimum.

> For us, we’ll be happy to display something for you each year if we
> can’t get something new done.

This would be fine. Hell, you could even repeat something that you did
five years before at a Balticon. (Classic Costume? Best of the Oldies?)

<snip>

> and if it will, then do we need to start making calls to any known
> costumers attending Balticon, asking them to just help fill out the
> show if there’s nothing new to compete.

This would probably be a good idea. The “Best in Class – Journeyman” was
Diane Kovalsin’s Jedi group who worked out a presentation over dinner
when we told her that we were getting desperate for entries.

> I was also wondering about folks bringing display costumes that might
> not have ever seen a Balticon, even if they don’t fit anymore. I know
> that our 2 den moms are brand new, and would have loved to go on
> stage for a first time with no win pressure or even , my first
> costume is being judged pressure, as it would be a display of someone
> else work.
> an example, at CC11 Karen sold off a bunch of her old stuff. all con
> worn, and most won something out in California. Faith Baker has one
> or two. Would it be cool if she wore it in display and it was
> announced that it was from the Equicon Fashion Show 1975 in LA?

One of the things that we talked about in the hall would be to do a
$1.98 Costume Panel on Saturday and then show the efforts at the
Masquerade, and also to have a show us your hall costume parade. I’m all
in favor of making newbies comfortable and I really like your
suggestion. (Hell, we could have had someone show off my chorus costume
from Crimson King if I had thought about it.)

> And I hope this is okay on this list. Balticon was always a BIG
> feeder con for CC costumes, and if we loose it, CCon the east coast
> is in trouble.
>

It works for me. There were a bunch of the GCFCG members at the con who
weren’t in costume and I/we need to nag them.

Thanks for your suggestions —
^M^

 

Group: runacc Message: 239 From: Andrew Trembley Date: 5/29/2003
Subject: Draft invite/job description for CC26 Bid Committee members
so this is my draft intro letter for people invited to join our bid
committee. So far no bid committee members have been added to the
cc26sv-staff mailing list, at least not until I could have this
document and a few supporting documents written up.

——-
Welcome to the CC26? Bid Committee. Before you accept our invitation,
we would like you to look over this description of the responsibilities
you are accepting.

As a member of the CC26? Bid Committee, it’s your job to help market
Costume-Con 26 in Silicon Valley in your region and in the costume
organizations and communities you participate in. What does this really
mean?

1. We’re building a list of costume organizations to distribute fliers
and progress reports to. We need your help in collecting names.
2. We’re building a calendar of costume events that bid committee
members are planning to attend. We need your help in telling us where
you’re going to be.
3. We’re distributing event fliers at costume events. We need your help
in taking fliers to your events. An Adobe PDF including all fliers is
available for downloading and may be printed in either color or
black-and-white.
4. We’re giving out “CC26? Pre-Con Costume Award” ribbons at costume
events. We need your help in giving out these awards. Drop us a note
with your mailing address and we’ll send you a packet of them.
5. We’re hosting “League of Evil Geniuses” parties at costume-heavy
conventions. If you would like to host a party at your local
convention, we’ll provide you with the information you’ll need to do so.

This is not a convention with deep pockets. The conference can’t fund a
lot of this activity. The Bid Chair will fund printing and shipping of
award ribbons (so we can maintain consistency). As to the rest, we’re
working on a mechanism where you can submit expense reports and be
receipted so you can deduct those expenses from your taxes as a
donation to the Unconventional Foundation. More detailed information
will be available as we complete our incorporation paperwork and work
with our accountant.

If you’re willing to take on this responsibility and the occasional
printing expense, then once again, welcome to the CC26? Bid Committee


andy trembley, CC26? Bid Chair
http://www.cc26.info/
“It’s not pink; it’s peach-colored. Pink is tacky.” –Manfred Pfirsich
Marie Rommel

 

Group: runacc Message: 240 From: Byron Connell Date: 5/29/2003
Subject: Re: Green Room

I agree with Joni. It is important that all entries have official photos taken and that all are encouraged to go for (optional) workmanship judging. If possible, I assign neos as mother’s helpers rather than den moms, but often have had no choice, since the number of volunteers has been sparse. I try to give my green room staff a thorough briefing on the several aspects of their responsibility — with any luck, before too many entrants arrive. I have found that this is helpful to first-time den moms. This is one of the reasons the green room manager needs to be there first and to have the staff arrive before the contestants do.

In my green rooms, the check-in clerk hands each entrant a 3×5 entry card upon arrival with the direction to give it to the den mom. The den mom already has a list of entry numbers (at least); the card provides a way for the den mom to check that all entries are present and to let me know if someone has not shown up. The den mom also can use the card to record official photography and workmanship judging, if he or she wishes.

It would be very helpful if entry forms included a request for information on the direction of stage entries and exits. In the absence of such information, I ask the den moms to check whether any entrant(s) may be entering or leaving the stage counter to the default path. To meet such needs, the green room manager may need to provide a mother’s helper on the other side of the stage, pre-position some members of an entry, and/or warn the back stage crew about two-way traffic!

If space permits, I like to arrange dens in semi-circles of chairs, so that each den is distinct, rather than simply lining chairs up along the walls of the green room. In either case, it is essential to provide a sign identifying each den by number (as well as signs for check-in, food and water, repairs, workmanship judging, and photography). We usually print up sets of such signs to use in the green room; I’d be happy to make the computer files available. (I think they’re in WordPerfect but maybe in Word.).

Tabards or similar garb to make green room staff visible can be valuable. I have used headbands, ribbons, and similar devices to identify green room staff; this primarily was for security purposes. ConFrancisco provided aprons to den moms. This year, we used identifying tabards at Lunacon for the first time. They certainly made the Den Moms’ visible! The ones we used had been made by Vicki Warren for use at Philcon, They’re in an absolutely horrible bright green that is hard to miss in the chaos of a green room. I have a similar set on order from another costumer.

Byron

—– Original Message —–
From: JBdashoff@aol.com
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 2:39 AM
Subject: Re: [runacc] Green Room

Dear all,
Bobbi Gear mentioned that she had several neos as staff/den mommies in
the Green Room this year. It does not appear to have been much of a problem
except…
Very few entrants went to see the workmanship judges. And for entrants
who arrived late, it was not a priority. The workmanship judges expressed the
regret that more of the entrants had not come to see them, since they believe
from what they did see at a distance that they could have given more awards.
This year’s Arisia also had several neo-mommies. I had been a den mommy
before so I took the initiative to write a check list for the two or three
neos and it seemed to have helped.
First, each den parent should have a list by entry number and title of
every one in their den. The check-in person usually prepares this.
My list included the status checks a den parent should remind/enforce an
entrant to do.
It included official photography, and details for the ninjas like an odd
entrance or exit that the rest of the staff need.
Gentle reminders for their own health and safety like drinks and snacks,
bathroom, repair table, no anachronisms (give me your watch, eyeglasses,
convention badge to hold for you).
And the strong encouragement to see the workmanship judge(s), because
after putting all your effort into constructing the costume, there must be some
part you are especially proud of making happen.
I’m sure I’ve forgotten something.

I heard reports the work aprons for the den mommies were useful at
Lunacon to identify the mommies/dens to the participants. I believe Balticon used
sign posts with the den numbers. Could someone else speak to this?
Joni Dashoff

PS Andy, you’re right ..if you tell the MD you’re available, they can act
(or not) and appoint you a judge. Of course, it helps to have all the masters on
site involved in a masquerade (re)presentation. Thank you to Karen and Ricky,
et al. that glimpse of wonder.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 

Group: runacc Message: 241 From: Betsy Delaney Date: 5/30/2003
Subject: Re: Green Room

Oh, I think this information is pertinent. Many of the CCs (most, if not
all) are managed by people who are also managing regional or local cons.
I assume that much of what we learn on the local level will be applied
to management when we get to Costume-Con. If we are noticing issues
locally, that aren’t established in the how-to yet, I can’t see a reason
why we wouldn’t want to discuss them here.

That’s all the input I have at the moment. More next week, I hope!

Betsy

Ricky & Karen Dick wrote:

>

[snip]

> And I hope this is okay on this list.
> Balticon was always a BIG feeder con for CC costumes, and if we loose it,
> CCon the east coast is in trouble.

[snip]


Betsy R. Delaney
Web Mistress at large

************************************************************************
http://www.WebInvent.com/ * http://www.hawkeswood.com/
http://www.Costume-Con.org/ * http://www.sickpups.org/
http://www.SchoolWithoutWalls.org/
************************************************************************

 

Group: runacc Message: 242 From: Andrew Trembley Date: 5/30/2003
Subject: DRAFT monthly reminder
This is your monthly reminder from CC26SV-Staff, the email list for Bid
Committee and Conference Committee members working on Costume-Con 26:
Adventures in the Costume Continuum.

There are a few ground-rules on this list:
1. This is not a chat-list. We’re focusing on conference business here.
2. Everybody should have a job description. If you don’t have one or
don’t know what yours is, contact chair@cc26.info to work on it.
3. If you see aan area that isn’t being covered, don’t just take it on.
Contact chair@cc26.info first, and work with the chairman to determine
where the responsibility should really lie.
4. If you have a suggestion that’s in somebody else’s area of
responsibility, take it directly (offlist) to them first.
5. On-list brainstorming sessions are the exception to rule #4, but
those should be called by the person responsible.
6. If negotiating with other departments off-list, results must be
posted on-list as soon as possible. Other folks can benefit from your
results.
7. Monthly status reports will at some point in the future be
requested. We’ll post the format when the time comes.

There are also a bunch of resources available in this group:

The Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cc26sv-staff/files/
contains documents and files of use to committee members.

The Database section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cc26sv-staff/database
contains tables of contact information for BidCom and ConCom members.
Please update your contact information here. If you have contact
information for organizations we should be marketing to, add those to
the “Marketing Mailing List” table.

The Links section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cc26sv-staff/links
contains links to other websites of interest to the committee.

If you have problems accessing these sections, contact bid@cc26.info
for assistance.

 

Group: runacc Message: 243 From: Andrew Trembley Date: 5/30/2003
Subject: Oh, just to clarify…
I’ve been working on the support docs for our CC26 bid. I’m posting
copies of some that are pertinent to runacc over here too.

andy


Andy Trembley, Bull-in-Drag
The Bovine Illuminati (It’s the Cows, Inc.)
http://www.bovil.com/
Moo!

 

Group: runacc Message: 244 From: Betsy Delaney Date: 6/1/2003
Subject: Drum roll, please! Costume-ConNections Relaunched!
Hi, folks!

Roughly 5,500 files and several days later, I’m pleased as punch to
announce the unveiling of the new and improved Costume-ConNections web
site at:

http://www.Costume-Con.org/

The new site (which has some major and some minor changes) is live now.

You will notice at the top of each page that you can now reach the lists
for all competiton participants and awards recipients (for which I have
data). This data now includes both Costume-Con 20 and Costume-Con 21.

As always, if you notice an error in a listing, please bring it to my
attention by sending email to my Costume-Con.org address.

The Links page still needs to be overhauled, but that’s going to wait a
little while. I expect to be working on the photos for CC21 shortly, and
the remaining four CCs after that.

Thanks to all of you for your continued support, compliments and
suggestions!!!

Happy costuming,

Betsy Delaney
Costume-Con Archivist


Betsy R. Delaney
Web Mistress at large

************************************************************************
http://www.WebInvent.com/ * http://www.hawkeswood.com/
http://www.Costume-Con.org/ * http://www.sickpups.org/
http://www.SchoolWithoutWalls.org/
************************************************************************

 

Group: runacc Message: 245 From: Tina Connell Date: 6/2/2003
Subject: Fabric dealer (re: dealers room discussion a couple of weeks ago)

When the subject of fabric dealers came up, I tried to look up Timeless Textiles on-line, and came up dry — apparently their website went bye-bye. Undeterred, I sent them an e-mail to the address I had, and finally today (weeks later) got the attached response. This is FYI, for anyone who would like the update. They do have a nice selection.

Tina

—– Original Message —–
From: Ttextiles@aol.com
To: cvconnel@nycap.rr.com
Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 12:44 PM
Subject: Re: Are you still there?

Yes, we are still in business. Our fabrics can be found on a friends web site at www.houseofanoria.com
Note the new address below:

Timeless Fabrics
PO Box 476
Hershey, PA 17033
pH (717) 930-0928
fax (717) 531-2434
Ttextiles@aol.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 

Group: runacc Message: 246 From: Andrew Trembley Date: 6/2/2003
Subject: Da Packet…
As I started to put together our master marketing list, I asked myself
“What the hell are we going to mail out to colleges and clubs once
we’ve got their addresses?”

I looked back (or rather dug through my memory) and came up with
Australia’s bid packet. Now I doubt that we (CC26) can get our CVB to
put together that sort of thing for us (tho I could be wrong), and we
can’t afford to put together quite so fancy a packet on our own, but we
can still use it as a model. There are cheaper ways to put together a
packet than glossy printing and wire binding.

So what really needs to go into the packet?
1. A cover letter
2. A 2- or 4-side report with more detailed information about the
conference
3. A 1-4 page “portfolio” showing examples of masquerade and contest
entries
4. Copies of event fliers relevant to the organization
All can go into a simple pocket folder with the conference name and
logo stickered on to the front.

This sort of packet will probably come out to a few bucks each,
depending on cost of the folders, cost of printing the portfolio sheets
and associated mailing costs. It’s probably worth it, though, for
promoting to organizations outside of the fannish (and recreationist)
worlds; some folks need to equate “good” with “professional” when
looking at conference materials.


andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen
http://www.irlm.org/ – mailto:webmaster@irlm.org
“Anybody who takes this seriously deserves to”
— Donna Barr

 

Group: runacc Message: 247 From: Elaine Mami Date: 6/2/2003
Subject: Re: Da Packet…

Andy,

Good start, but you should also include something about the panels,
workshops, etc. We do have an educational function, too, remember.

Elaine

Blessed are we who can laugh at ourselves, for we shall always be amused!

> As I started to put together our master marketing list, I asked myself
> “What the hell are we going to mail out to colleges and clubs once
> we’ve got their addresses?”
>
> I looked back (or rather dug through my memory) and came up with
> Australia’s bid packet. Now I doubt that we (CC26) can get our CVB to
> put together that sort of thing for us (tho I could be wrong), and we
> can’t afford to put together quite so fancy a packet on our own, but we
> can still use it as a model. There are cheaper ways to put together a
> packet than glossy printing and wire binding.
>
> So what really needs to go into the packet?
> 1. A cover letter
> 2. A 2- or 4-side report with more detailed information about the
> conference
> 3. A 1-4 page “portfolio” showing examples of masquerade and contest
> entries
> 4. Copies of event fliers relevant to the organization
> All can go into a simple pocket folder with the conference name and
> logo stickered on to the front.
>
> This sort of packet will probably come out to a few bucks each,
> depending on cost of the folders, cost of printing the portfolio sheets
> and associated mailing costs. It’s probably worth it, though, for
> promoting to organizations outside of the fannish (and recreationist)
> worlds; some folks need to equate “good” with “professional” when
> looking at conference materials.
>

 

Group: runacc Message: 248 From: Andrew Trembley Date: 6/2/2003
Subject: Re: Da Packet…

On Monday, June 2, 2003, at 07:13 PM, Elaine Mami wrote:

> Andy,
>
> Good start, but you should also include something about the panels,
> workshops, etc. We do have an educational function, too, remember.

My thoughts were that should be part of the detailed report on the
conference.

andy


andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen
http://www.irlm.org/ – mailto:webmaster@irlm.org
“Anybody who takes this seriously deserves to”
— Donna Barr

 

Group: runacc Message: 249 From: henryosier@cs.com Date: 6/2/2003
Subject: Re: Da Packet…
With a little modification, this would be a good thing to hand to the hotel
staff so they know what we are all about.

Henry Osier

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 

Group: runacc Message: 250 From: betsy Date: 6/2/2003
Subject: Re: Da Packet…

I’ll be interested to see what you come up with, content-wise. Feel free to
run it through here, if you want, for additional feedback.

Some of the material could come from the Costume-ConNections FAQ. I just
answered a question that I get infrequently about who can attend a CC and how
membership works.

I’ll be posting the data to the FAQ sometime this week. I’ve got the Guestbook
and FAQ to update, and the Links page to revisit for cobwebs.

Cheers,

Betsy

On Mon, 2 Jun 2003 19:18:08 -0700, Andrew Trembley wrote

> On Monday, June 2, 2003, at 07:13 PM, Elaine Mami wrote:
>
> > Andy,
> >
> > Good start, but you should also include something about the panels,
> > workshops, etc. We do have an educational function, too, remember.
>
> My thoughts were that should be part of the detailed report on the
> conference.
>
> andy


Betsy R. Delaney
Web Mistress at large
WebInvent.com, Inc.

************************************************************************
www.WebInvent.com * www.Costume-Con.org * www.hawkeswood.com
************************************************************************

 

 

Yahoo Archive: Page 4 of 67

 

Messages in runacc group. Page 4 of 67.

Group: runacc Message: 151 From: JBdashoff@aol.com Date: 5/12/2003
Subject: Re: My AIM Account — FYI
Group: runacc Message: 152 From: Ricky & Karen Dick Date: 5/12/2003
Subject: Re: My AIM Account — FYI
Group: runacc Message: 153 From: Byron Connell Date: 5/12/2003
Subject: Re: My AIM Account — FYI
Group: runacc Message: 154 From: Byron Connell Date: 5/12/2003
Subject: Re: [ICG-D] Judging — many new questions
Group: runacc Message: 155 From: Betsy Delaney Date: 5/13/2003
Subject: Re: [ICG-D] Judging — many new questions
Group: runacc Message: 156 From: Andrew Trembley Date: 5/13/2003
Subject: Fiddling around with names…
Group: runacc Message: 157 From: Andrew Trembley Date: 5/13/2003
Subject: Re: [ICG-D] Judging — many new questions
Group: runacc Message: 158 From: Elaine Mami Date: 5/13/2003
Subject: Re: Fiddling around with names…
Group: runacc Message: 159 From: JBdashoff@aol.com Date: 5/14/2003
Subject: Re: CC21 Review – Part III
Group: runacc Message: 160 From: JBdashoff@aol.com Date: 5/15/2003
Subject: Re: Date ideas
Group: runacc Message: 161 From: Andrew T Trembley Date: 5/15/2003
Subject: Re: CC21 Review – Part III
Group: runacc Message: 162 From: Andrew T Trembley Date: 5/15/2003
Subject: Re: CC21 Review – Part III
Group: runacc Message: 163 From: Byron Connell Date: 5/15/2003
Subject: Re: Date ideas
Group: runacc Message: 164 From: Andrew Trembley Date: 5/15/2003
Subject: Fwd: [ICG-D] CCXV
Group: runacc Message: 165 From: Betsy Delaney Date: 5/15/2003
Subject: Re: Fwd: [ICG-D] CCXV
Group: runacc Message: 166 From: Elaine Mami Date: 5/15/2003
Subject: Re: Date ideas
Group: runacc Message: 167 From: Andrew T Trembley Date: 5/17/2003
Subject: Fw (from a new CC attendee): CC21 and ICG questions
Group: runacc Message: 168 From: Bruce & Nora Mai Date: 5/17/2003
Subject: Newcomers
Group: runacc Message: 169 From: Bruce & Nora Mai Date: 5/18/2003
Subject: Dealers Room
Group: runacc Message: 170 From: Bruce & Nora Mai Date: 5/18/2003
Subject: Historical Masq
Group: runacc Message: 171 From: Andrew T Trembley Date: 5/18/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers Room
Group: runacc Message: 172 From: Betsy Delaney Date: 5/18/2003
Subject: Re: Historical Masq
Group: runacc Message: 173 From: Ricky & Karen Dick Date: 5/18/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers Room
Group: runacc Message: 174 From: Betsy Delaney Date: 5/18/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers Room
Group: runacc Message: 175 From: Elaine Mami Date: 5/18/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers Room
Group: runacc Message: 176 From: Ricky & Karen Dick Date: 5/18/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers Room
Group: runacc Message: 177 From: Karen Heim Date: 5/18/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers Room
Group: runacc Message: 178 From: Trudy Leonard Date: 5/19/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers Room
Group: runacc Message: 179 From: Andrew T Trembley Date: 5/19/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers Room
Group: runacc Message: 180 From: Charles Galway Date: 5/19/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers Room
Group: runacc Message: 181 From: Tina Connell Date: 5/19/2003
Subject: Re: Newcomers
Group: runacc Message: 182 From: henryosier@cs.com Date: 5/19/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers Room
Group: runacc Message: 183 From: henryosier@cs.com Date: 5/19/2003
Subject: Re: Historical Masq
Group: runacc Message: 184 From: Ricky & Karen Dick Date: 5/19/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers Room
Group: runacc Message: 185 From: henryosier@cs.com Date: 5/19/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers Room
Group: runacc Message: 186 From: Martin Gear Date: 5/19/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers Room
Group: runacc Message: 187 From: Bruce & Nora Mai Date: 5/19/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers Room
Group: runacc Message: 188 From: Byron Connell Date: 5/19/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers Room
Group: runacc Message: 189 From: Ricky & Karen Dick Date: 5/19/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers Room
Group: runacc Message: 190 From: Andrew Trembley Date: 5/19/2003
Subject: Exhibits/Dealers (was Re: Dealers Room)
Group: runacc Message: 191 From: Elaine Mami Date: 5/20/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers Room
Group: runacc Message: 192 From: Tina Connell Date: 5/20/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers Room
Group: runacc Message: 193 From: Tina Connell Date: 5/20/2003
Subject: Re: Newcomers
Group: runacc Message: 194 From: Les Roth Date: 5/20/2003
Subject: Re: Newcomers
Group: runacc Message: 195 From: betsy Date: 5/20/2003
Subject: Re: Newcomers
Group: runacc Message: 196 From: henryosier@cs.com Date: 5/20/2003
Subject: Dealers’ Room
Group: runacc Message: 197 From: Ricky & Karen Dick Date: 5/20/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers’ Room
Group: runacc Message: 198 From: Ricky & Karen Dick Date: 5/20/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers Room
Group: runacc Message: 199 From: henryosier@cs.com Date: 5/20/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers’ Room: Juried vs First-Come, First Served
Group: runacc Message: 200 From: Ricky & Karen Dick Date: 5/20/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers’ Room: Juried vs First-Come, First Served

 


 

Group: runacc Message: 151 From: JBdashoff@aol.com Date: 5/12/2003
Subject: Re: My AIM Account — FYI

Dear Betsy and the rest of the list,
I’m on AOL, but I don’t use the IM option, although my younger son could
educate me if necessary.
I asked to be on this list because, although I am only a journeyman
costumer, I have been very active in fandom. I have extensive experience in
both convention running and creating forms and rules. I acquired this being
an art show director, co-revisor of ASFA’s Art Show Guidelines, and treasurer
for PSFS, ASFA, and for my sins, the recent Philly Worldcon.
Joni Brill Dashoff

In a message dated 04/25/2003 10:25:18 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
betsy@hawkeswood.com writes:

> Hi, folks!
>
> There are now 21 members of this list.
>
> Since our members are spread across the country, and since long distance
> bills are what they are, here’s my AIM account.
>

 

Group: runacc Message: 152 From: Ricky & Karen Dick Date: 5/12/2003
Subject: Re: My AIM Account — FYI

Welcome to the list, Joni, and nice seeing you at LunaCon.

–Karen

At 12:28 AM 5/12/2003 -0400, you wrote:

>Dear Betsy and the rest of the list,
> I’m on AOL, but I don’t use the IM option, although my younger son
> could
>educate me if necessary.
> I asked to be on this list because, although I am only a journeyman
>costumer, I have been very active in fandom. I have extensive experience in
>both convention running and creating forms and rules. I acquired this being
>an art show director, co-revisor of ASFA’s Art Show Guidelines, and treasurer
>for PSFS, ASFA, and for my sins, the recent Philly Worldcon.
> Joni Brill Dashoff
>
>In a message dated 04/25/2003 10:25:18 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
>betsy@hawkeswood.com writes:
>
> > Hi, folks!
> >
> > There are now 21 members of this list.
> >
> > Since our members are spread across the country, and since long distance
> > bills are what they are, here’s my AIM account.
> >
>
>
>View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>runacc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

 

Group: runacc Message: 153 From: Byron Connell Date: 5/12/2003
Subject: Re: My AIM Account — FYI

Joni —

Don’t worry about the division in which you compete. When I do compete, I do so in the Novice division. This list is about running Costume-Cons, not about competing in their masquerades. Your experience makes you especially qualified to participate.

Byron

—– Original Message —–
From: JBdashoff@aol.com
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, May 12, 2003 12:28 AM
Subject: Re: [runacc] My AIM Account — FYI

Dear Betsy and the rest of the list,
I’m on AOL, but I don’t use the IM option, although my younger son could
educate me if necessary.
I asked to be on this list because, although I am only a journeyman
costumer, I have been very active in fandom. I have extensive experience in
both convention running and creating forms and rules. I acquired this being
an art show director, co-revisor of ASFA’s Art Show Guidelines, and treasurer
for PSFS, ASFA, and for my sins, the recent Philly Worldcon.
Joni Brill Dashoff

In a message dated 04/25/2003 10:25:18 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
betsy@hawkeswood.com writes:

> Hi, folks!
>
> There are now 21 members of this list.
>
> Since our members are spread across the country, and since long distance
> bills are what they are, here’s my AIM account.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 

Group: runacc Message: 154 From: Byron Connell Date: 5/12/2003
Subject: Re: [ICG-D] Judging — many new questions

A follow-up to my message of a few minutes ago. It’s not terribly hard to learn any of the jobs in running a masquerade. Usually, you can do so by volunteering to take various positions in the masquerade staff. Successful experience leads to increased responsibility. Beyond that, there are two pre-eminent books on running masquerades: The Kennedy Compendium, by the late Peggy Kennedy, and The Masquerade Handbook, by Cat Devereaux and other CGW members. To a considerable extent, I learned what I do by reading the two and internalizing their (sometimes contradictory) advice. Tina and I have copies available of the Compendium. Cat may be able to help you locate copies of the Handbook.

Yet, as they stand, neither work is up-to-date or appropriate for an International-level competition; they are a decade old and have to be adapted for that stage. A number of us are working on the preparation of a Costume-Con Runners’ Guide, the equivalent of the Worldcon Runners’ Guide. I expect that a great deal of the discussion under this thread on ICG-D will help to shape our work.

Byron

—– Original Message —–
From: Bruce & Nora Mai
To: ICG-D@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2003 10:42 PM
Subject: [ICG-D] Judging — many new questions

> Becoming a judge means the MD has asked you. I think it’s arrogant and
> presumptuous to go around to MDs going, “I’m available to judge. Pick
> me!” What if they don’t *want* you?

Karen Heim had a number of good questions from an earlier post regarding
judges

And this leads me to a whole list of questions for those of you who have
been doing the costuming and con thing longer than I have. This is a
subject I want to understand thoroughly. I’ve been saving some letters
posted earlier in regards to the other issues I raised. This is gonna take
some time, so pull up a chair.

First, foremost and central: How does one become a judge? It’s obvously
not just because you’ve costumed for years. We have any number of judges
who have little, if any, costume construction experience, but it’s obvious
they know their stuff.

Karen feels uncomfortable volunteering. I can understand that. One has to
have a certain amount of confidence to volunteer, because you don’t know if
someone feels you “worthy” or not. So, I assume it’s not just a matter of
“you have to know someone”.

Veterans: Who typically selects the judges? Those of you who have picked
the judges for your masquerades, what are your criteria?

(And by the way, how are masquerade directors themselve chosen, for that
matter?)

Bruce

Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

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To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 

Group: runacc Message: 155 From: Betsy Delaney Date: 5/13/2003
Subject: Re: [ICG-D] Judging — many new questions

For the record, I’ve got copies of both publications, so we should be
covered in that section.

Regarding Bruce’s questions – I haven’t read the original yet. My ICG-D
box stands at 140 unread messages, and it’s likely to stay that way for
at least the next few days.

I can answer some of the questions concerning CCXV, since I selected the
MDs.

Later,

Betsy

Byron Connell wrote:

>
> A follow-up to my message of a few minutes ago. It’s not terribly hard to learn any of the jobs in running a masquerade. Usually, you can do so by volunteering to take various positions in the masquerade staff. Successful experience leads to increased responsibility. Beyond that, there are two pre-eminent books on running masquerades: The Kennedy Compendium, by the late Peggy Kennedy, and The Masquerade Handbook, by Cat Devereaux and other CGW members. To a considerable extent, I learned what I do by reading the two and internalizing their (sometimes contradictory) advice. Tina and I have copies available of the Compendium. Cat may be able to help you locate copies of the Handbook.
>
> Yet, as they stand, neither work is up-to-date or appropriate for an International-level competition; they are a decade old and have to be adapted for that stage. A number of us are working on the preparation of a Costume-Con Runners’ Guide, the equivalent of the Worldcon Runners’ Guide. I expect that a great deal of the discussion under this thread on ICG-D will help to shape our work.
>
> Byron
>
>
> —– Original Message —–
> From: Bruce & Nora Mai
> To: ICG-D@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2003 10:42 PM
> Subject: [ICG-D] Judging — many new questions
>
> > Becoming a judge means the MD has asked you. I think it’s arrogant and
> > presumptuous to go around to MDs going, “I’m available to judge. Pick
> > me!” What if they don’t *want* you?
>
> Karen Heim had a number of good questions from an earlier post regarding
> judges
>
> And this leads me to a whole list of questions for those of you who have
> been doing the costuming and con thing longer than I have. This is a
> subject I want to understand thoroughly. I’ve been saving some letters
> posted earlier in regards to the other issues I raised. This is gonna take
> some time, so pull up a chair.
>
> First, foremost and central: How does one become a judge? It’s obvously
> not just because you’ve costumed for years. We have any number of judges
> who have little, if any, costume construction experience, but it’s obvious
> they know their stuff.
>
> Karen feels uncomfortable volunteering. I can understand that. One has to
> have a certain amount of confidence to volunteer, because you don’t know if
> someone feels you “worthy” or not. So, I assume it’s not just a matter of
> “you have to know someone”.
>
> Veterans: Who typically selects the judges? Those of you who have picked
> the judges for your masquerades, what are your criteria?
>
> (And by the way, how are masquerade directors themselve chosen, for that
> matter?)
>
> Bruce
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
> Enter:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> ICG-D-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> runacc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Betsy R. Delaney
Web Mistress at large

************************************************************************
http://www.WebInvent.com/ * http://www.hawkeswood.com/
http://www.Costume-Con.org/ * http://www.sickpups.org/
http://www.SchoolWithoutWalls.org/
************************************************************************

 

Group: runacc Message: 156 From: Andrew Trembley Date: 5/13/2003
Subject: Fiddling around with names…

If you haven’t been reading ICG-D there’s a big discussion (mostly
instigated by myself and Kevin this afternoon) raging over changing the
division names, and replacing Master/Journeyman/Novice with
Open/Intermediate/Beginner. I went to the guidelines draft I’ve been
working on and did a careful find-and-replace on the division names.

(forwarded from ICG-D)

> You can see (if you can read word documents) what it looks like at
> http://www.bovil.com/icg/GuidelinesRewrite4.doc
>
> Just scroll down to the second half (the new draft) and find the skill
> division section.
>
> Forgive a few spots where the phrasing is clumsy; the change in names
> does necessitate a bit of tweaking of the surrounding language that I
> didn’t take the time to do. For the most part, though, a simple
> plug-replace worked pretty well.

andy


andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen
http://www.irlm.org/ – mailto:webmaster@irlm.org
“Anybody who takes this seriously deserves to”
— Donna Barr

 

Group: runacc Message: 157 From: Andrew Trembley Date: 5/13/2003
Subject: Re: [ICG-D] Judging — many new questions

On Monday, May 12, 2003, at 10:19 PM, Betsy Delaney wrote:

> Regarding Bruce’s questions – I haven’t read the original yet. My ICG-D
> box stands at 140 unread messages, and it’s likely to stay that way for
> at least the next few days.

you couldn’t be so lucky…

> I can answer some of the questions concerning CCXV, since I selected
> the
> MDs.

I think this sort of discussion will be very valuable in defining a
more standard “job description” for the position.

andy


Andy Trembley, Bull-in-Drag
The Bovine Illuminati (It’s the Cows, Inc.)
http://www.bovil.com/
Moo!


andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen – http://www.bovil.com/
San Jose, CA – ’72 R75/5 ’86 R100 (mine) – ’92 K75sa ’03 R1150R
(Kevin’s)
“It’s not pink, it’s peach-colored. Pink is tacky.”
–Manfred Pfirsich Marie Rommel

read the FAQ… Ridicule: http://www.idiots-r-us.org/
read the FAQ… IBMWR: http://www.ibmwr.org/faq-files/
read the FAQ… AirList: http://www.airheads.org/faq.html
read the FAQ… Hoaxes & Urban Legends: http://urbanlegends.about.com/

 

Group: runacc Message: 158 From: Elaine Mami Date: 5/13/2003
Subject: Re: Fiddling around with names…

Andy,

While I agree that Master is not a great name, I dread the thought of
another 6 years of fighting. It was a very long and grizzly fight, and the
local meetings were as aggravating as the annual meetings – which went on
for hours. Those fights are what cost us many members, who dropped out of
the ICG because of the politiking. They kept Karen out for a long time, as
well!

IMHO, perhaps we could think of just changing the one “title” to
Experienced, rather than swamp the entire boat with one tsunami.

And discussions in my own house are now several decibels higher already!

Elaine

> If you haven’t been reading ICG-D there’s a big discussion (mostly
> instigated by myself and Kevin this afternoon) raging over changing the
> division names, and replacing Master/Journeyman/Novice with
> Open/Intermediate/Beginner. I went to the guidelines draft I’ve been
> working on and did a careful find-and-replace on the division names.

 

Group: runacc Message: 159 From: JBdashoff@aol.com Date: 5/14/2003
Subject: Re: CC21 Review – Part III

In a message dated 05/04/2003 6:59:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
MartinGear@comcast.net writes:

> Keeping all this in mind, I’d be interested to see comments
> regarding the choice of “Presidents’ Day” weekend for a CC.

The Delaware Valley Costumers Guild hosted CostumeCon in Cherry Hill, NJ
(across the river from Philly) a few years back and found…
(1) the Californians were scared of snow (and this year we did have a
sufficient snow amounts during President’s Day weekend to scare even the East
Coasters).
(2) President’s Day weekend is also Valentine’s Day; our hotel restaurant
gave all its Saturday dinner tables to reserved couples and saved NONE for
hotel guests (the hotel restaurant was a subcontract).

I think Easter weekend weather and Sunday brunches are a lot less
conflict for a CostumeCon.
Joni Dashoff

 

Group: runacc Message: 160 From: JBdashoff@aol.com Date: 5/15/2003
Subject: Re: Date ideas

In a message dated 05/05/2003 1:26:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
MartinGear@comcast.net writes:

> Sorry Betsy, but according to my records, we’ve held all three Baltimore
> area CC’s over Memorial Day weekend. That was Disclave’s weekend, and
> since Disclave did not generally do a masquerade, we offered a special
> rate to Disclave members who wanted to come to Costume Con just for the
> masquerades.

(snipped)

> We held CC-15
> in downtown Baltimore over Memorial Day weekend because all of the
> suburban hotels were now booked solid because of soccer tournaments in
> the area.

That’s correct. Betsy, you and your husband even gave me directions to
the nearest gas station and then how to get back to Disclave on Saturday
after theSF/F Masquerade..
I arrived at three AM, counted heads and coming up short went to the
Discave to yank Alan from his Social Class game with Hal Haag et al.
We got to bed at 3:30AM The fire alarms started at 5:30AM aand went on
for an hour (Alan slept through them all). Yes, that was the year of water in
which Disclave sunk.

> Given that, and the fact that BaltiCon [very costumer friendly
> for those of you who never been] is now on Memorial Day weekend, I would
> doubt that we will see any East Coast CC’s using that weekend.
>
> ^M^
>

Long live Balticon and Caplave.

As for CostumeCon, last week of April/first week of May sounds like nice
weather, no religious conflicts, no major con conflicts, and if the kids are
stuck in school, its a great reason to get to travel alone!

BTW, SFWA has gone through the same discussion after holding its Nebulas
weekend over Easter/Passover this year. There were some members who had
religious conflicts but more who had major regional SF/F con conflicts, a
real drag when your membership base is the SF/F authors.
Joni

 

Group: runacc Message: 161 From: Andrew T Trembley Date: 5/15/2003
Subject: Re: CC21 Review – Part III

From: <JBdashoff@aol.com>

> The Delaware Valley Costumers Guild hosted CostumeCon in Cherry Hill, NJ
> (across the river from Philly) a few years back and found…
> (1) the Californians were scared of snow (and this year we did have a
> sufficient snow amounts during President’s Day weekend to scare even the

East

> Coasters).

“The Californians” (by which I mean everybody but myself, Kevin and Jess
Miller) haven’t traveled east for anything in years. The last CC with any
significant California presence was CC16. There were 6 of us (ourselves,
Janet Anderson, Deb Salisbury and the MacDermotts) if I remember correctly.
Granted Kevin and I skipped CC20, 19 and 18 (money/conflict, conflict and
conflict) but at this point I’d call the snow an excuse, not a reason.

andy

 

Group: runacc Message: 162 From: Andrew T Trembley Date: 5/15/2003
Subject: Re: CC21 Review – Part III

From: “Andrew T Trembley” <attrembl@bovil.com>

> “The Californians” (by which I mean everybody but myself, Kevin and Jess
> Miller) haven’t traveled east for anything in years. The last CC with any
> significant California presence was CC16. There were 6 of us (ourselves,
> Janet Anderson, Deb Salisbury and the MacDermotts) if I remember

correctly.

Sorry, forgot to finish that sentence. There were only 6 of us at CC21.

CC16 included Bridget Landry, Bruce Briant, Kate Morgenstern, Jess Miller,
Darla Krueger and more folks I’m spacing at the moment. Of course, I wasn’t
a Californian at that point.

andy

 

Group: runacc Message: 163 From: Byron Connell Date: 5/15/2003
Subject: Re: Date ideas

I’m sorry, but that is not correct. CC 9 was February 15-18, 1991. We drove through a snow storm in northeastern Pennsylvania to get to it. It snowed during the con and I recall CGW members dancing out in the snow as it fell.

Byron

—– Original Message —–
From: JBdashoff@aol.com
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2003 12:54 AM
Subject: Re: [runacc] Re: Date ideas

In a message dated 05/05/2003 1:26:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
MartinGear@comcast.net writes:

> Sorry Betsy, but according to my records, we’ve held all three Baltimore
> area CC’s over Memorial Day weekend. That was Disclave’s weekend, and
> since Disclave did not generally do a masquerade, we offered a special
> rate to Disclave members who wanted to come to Costume Con just for the
> masquerades.
(snipped)
> We held CC-15
> in downtown Baltimore over Memorial Day weekend because all of the
> suburban hotels were now booked solid because of soccer tournaments in
> the area.
That’s correct. Betsy, you and your husband even gave me directions to
the nearest gas station and then how to get back to Disclave on Saturday
after theSF/F Masquerade..
I arrived at three AM, counted heads and coming up short went to the
Discave to yank Alan from his Social Class game with Hal Haag et al.
We got to bed at 3:30AM The fire alarms started at 5:30AM aand went on
for an hour (Alan slept through them all). Yes, that was the year of water in
which Disclave sunk.

> Given that, and the fact that BaltiCon [very costumer friendly
> for those of you who never been] is now on Memorial Day weekend, I would
> doubt that we will see any East Coast CC’s using that weekend.
>
> ^M^
>
Long live Balticon and Caplave.

As for CostumeCon, last week of April/first week of May sounds like nice
weather, no religious conflicts, no major con conflicts, and if the kids are
stuck in school, its a great reason to get to travel alone!

BTW, SFWA has gone through the same discussion after holding its Nebulas
weekend over Easter/Passover this year. There were some members who had
religious conflicts but more who had major regional SF/F con conflicts, a
real drag when your membership base is the SF/F authors.
Joni

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 

Group: runacc Message: 164 From: Andrew Trembley Date: 5/15/2003
Subject: Fwd: [ICG-D] CCXV

pertinent to our discussion…

Begin forwarded message:

> From: Catelli <catelli@rcn.com>
> Date: Thu May 15, 2003 4:46:24 AM US/Pacific
> To: ICG-D@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [ICG-D] CCXV
> Reply-To: ICG-D@yahoogroups.com
>
> One thing that slipped at CCXV, was that no one considered Ninjas to be
> their department.
>
> I looked to sign up to be a ninja. There was no sign-up sheet, even.
>
> So I panicked at everyone I ran into & gathered together a crew.
> Betsy modestly backed away from the lectern & fell off the stage during
> an awards ceremony.
>
>
> I did have some issues with the Green Room staff–the postage stamp
> room
> was filled with tables, and the heads of Green Room laughed at my
> suggestion that we strike the tables before anyone arrived. In the
> event, they waited until the room was full of costumers, and then
> struck
> them, for only 1/2-1/3 of the entrants had arrived at that point.
>
> Ann in CT


andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen – http://www.bovil.com/
San Jose, CA – ’72 R75/5 ’86 R100 (mine) – ’92 K75sa ’03 R1150R
(Kevin’s)
…remaining .sig trimmed for better message/.sig ratio

 

Group: runacc Message: 165 From: Betsy Delaney Date: 5/15/2003
Subject: Re: Fwd: [ICG-D] CCXV

You betcha!

Concerning this issue: It was my impression that once the MDs took over,
they were responsible for collecting these names. That it fell through
the cracks is news to me, six years after the fact, but it would explain
the dearth of catchers at the con.

The fall I took brings up two points. First, the stage was set with a
very large hole behind the podium, to bring the MC away from the stage.
I think that this is a Very Bad Idea ™ for the obvious reason that
falls can happen. I was VERY careful while walking around the stage at
CC21 for that very reason. Having cracked ribs once, at the con I was
running, I was disinclined to do so again at a con for which I was not
responsible.

Since my fall, I have advocated, when asked, that anyone who expects to
have something to do with a stage should be signing a release form
holding the con harmless should an injury occur during the weekend. This
should include judges, techies, MCs and competition coordinators as
well.

Liability releases were not available at CC21 until I asked about them
for our group. By then, the text we used for CCXV was safely at home, in
my archives. While a blanket release for photography was a good idea,
missing the other can get the con committee into a great deal of hot
water if anyone is actually hurt during an event. Just ask the con com
from Magicon.

While we’re thinking about things to add to the document, I think that
we should consider providing sample releases. We should also consider
generating some sort of at-con checklist for committees to use, so that
they can have an easy reference for management holes in their staff.

Finally, I can’t speak for why Ann was poo-pooed (if this was the case)
in the greenroom, but I don’t think anyone really thought about the
amount of necessary personal space 105 contestant bodies would actually
take up in the space allotted. This was something that should probably
have been identified by the MD as a potential problem before the
greenroom call occurred. Again, we should consider providing guidance on
the subject.

Sometimes there’s nothing you can do with the greenroom space because of
the configuration of the hotel. We saw that with CC21. Improvisation is
necessary. So is patience and understanding. Blowing someone off without
good reason is never a good idea, at any time.

If anyone has questions about decisions made during that weekend, just
ask. I promise to answer to the best of my ability (and memory).

Meanwhile, I expect to be away from the computer a substantial amount
over the next several days – my sister and her family are in town until
Tuesday, and we have a wedding this weekend in which we are heavily
involved. After they leave, I have the remains of our family room floor
to paint, and everything to put back into its proper place, as well as
the last five CCs to reconfigure, and CC21’s data to add. So if you have
a question and I don’t get back to you immediately, now you know why.

Cheers,

Betsy

Andrew Trembley wrote:

>
> pertinent to our discussion…
>
> Begin forwarded message:
> > From: Catelli <catelli@rcn.com>
> > Date: Thu May 15, 2003 4:46:24 AM US/Pacific
> > To: ICG-D@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [ICG-D] CCXV
> > Reply-To: ICG-D@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > One thing that slipped at CCXV, was that no one considered Ninjas to be
> > their department.
> >
> > I looked to sign up to be a ninja. There was no sign-up sheet, even.
> >
> > So I panicked at everyone I ran into & gathered together a crew.
> > Betsy modestly backed away from the lectern & fell off the stage during
> > an awards ceremony.
> >
> >
> > I did have some issues with the Green Room staff–the postage stamp
> > room
> > was filled with tables, and the heads of Green Room laughed at my
> > suggestion that we strike the tables before anyone arrived. In the
> > event, they waited until the room was full of costumers, and then
> > struck
> > them, for only 1/2-1/3 of the entrants had arrived at that point.
> >
> > Ann in CT
>
> —
> andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen – http://www.bovil.com/
> San Jose, CA – ’72 R75/5 ’86 R100 (mine) – ’92 K75sa ’03 R1150R
> (Kevin’s)
> …remaining .sig trimmed for better message/.sig ratio
>
>
> View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> runacc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Betsy R. Delaney
Web Mistress at large

************************************************************************
http://www.WebInvent.com/ * http://www.hawkeswood.com/
http://www.Costume-Con.org/ * http://www.sickpups.org/
http://www.SchoolWithoutWalls.org/
************************************************************************

 

Group: runacc Message: 166 From: Elaine Mami Date: 5/15/2003
Subject: Re: Date ideas

It’s true. They danced in the flakes, then the Pups did our tribute to The
Ring Cycle.

Elaine

> I’m sorry, but that is not correct. CC 9 was February 15-18, 1991. We

drove through a snow storm in northeastern Pennsylvania to get to it. It
snowed during the con and I recall CGW members dancing out in the snow as it
fell.

>
> Byron
>

 

Group: runacc Message: 167 From: Andrew T Trembley Date: 5/17/2003
Subject: Fw (from a new CC attendee): CC21 and ICG questions

forwarded with Allison’s permission

—– Original Message —–
From: “Allison Pace” <allivox@comcast.net>
> On Thursday, May 15, 2003, at 09:03 PM, ICG-D@yahoogroups.com wrote:
> From: Andrew Trembley <attrembl@bovil.com>
> > I think perhaps we need a “Newcomer’s guide to Costume-Con” (oy…

> Hear hear!

> > Speaking of questions, I wrote one of those rule sets. I’m curious
> > about the bits that you found confusing. Can you drop me a note at
> > attrembl@bovil.com with your specific comments on the rules?

> Since I’ve got CC21 behind me, I “get it.” So NOW I can re-read the
> Progress Reports and see what they meant. But I would’ve been more on
> top of things (no jokes please – I’ve checked out your website, and
> Kevin’s :-)) if I had had someone explain to me thusly: “Okay, Allison
> – Costume Con is an event based on the model of Science Fiction/Fantasy
> events that have been going on for decades, and this particular event
> includes the category of Historical Costuming, too.” <and then they’d
> have to ‘splain to me what SF/F Cons were…> “It’s not anything
> ‘official’ – it’s just a motley collection of people who are willing to
> put a lot of organization and effort into their hobby.” The event I
> especially didn’t understand was the “Future Fashion Folio.” I thought
> it was some competition for up-and-coming designers so that fashion
> apparel manufacturers might sponsor so as to find new designs and new
> talent. But the categories were too funky for that, so I really had no
> idea what that was all about. And the masquerades were a bit
> confusing, because there was mention of staging and lighting and other
> production elements. So the actress in me thought – “Oh – not just
> showing off your work, but a whole mini-production! Too much tech for
> me before seeing how it works! ” But like I said above, now that I’ve
> been to my first CC, I feel much more comfy with what goes on and I’m
> willing to schlep (schlepp? how many p’s?) a bunch of stuff with me and
> not feeling like I’ve overdone it.
>
> Bottom line is this: the Progress Reports do exactly what they need to
> for those who have been there. But for someone as completely in the
> dark as I was, they seem to be written for those who are already a part
> of the “in crowd.” Maybe there is no solution, maybe each newcomer
> needs to go through this, to figure out for themselves how they will
> participate.

 

Group: runacc Message: 168 From: Bruce & Nora Mai Date: 5/17/2003
Subject: Newcomers
Nora and I do some of our best brainstorming in the car while running
errands. Nora had a couple of very good ideas I think folks ought to
consider in the future:

1. Create a position like “Newbie Liason”. It’s sort of the same idea that
Betsy mentined of the “ambassadors”, only having one person specificaly
charged iwth coming up with ideas to bring the vifgins more quickly into the
community.

We had a new person from our group speak of how “exclusinve” the ICG felt to
her in her first CC experience (never mind that a lot of the CC attendees
aren’t even ICG — she doesn’t understand the format yet). Well, I think
she was expecting people to seek her out, and that’s generally not what
people do as a rule. Sure, there are individuals who try to make an effort,
but they ususally can’t find them all or have the time because they’re
con-goers themselves.

For CC16, we had a ribbon or something to identify new people, and
encouraged all the con-goers to approach them. Not sure how successful that
was specifically, but people liked the con. I had any number of people I
didn’t know that stopped me to say they were having a great time.

Anyway, expanding upon this idea, the Liason could maybe actually give a
tour of the con. They would maybe start with a panel (find out who they
are, where they come from, their backgrouind), then take them around and
show them the Exhibits, the Dealers room, where the masqs and Green Room
are, the Con Suite, what to expect at panels, etc. Also included would be
some sort of “Meet the Vets” session, or at least buttonhole the “names” of
Costuming and introduce them to folks so they would have at least passing
familiarity with people we all mention often in a group. And, that would
include most of you here, like Ricky and Karen, Marty, the Hylls, Carl &
Elaine, Jacqui, the Pettingers, the MacDermotts — people like that.
Maybe the Liason could have a photo album with sample works, just in case.
I think this would work better than a panel, because I just don’t think
people would go to a panel of people telling all about themselves. Maybe
this part could be done in the Con Suite at some point.

I think this could be a fun job!

2. The other idea I wish we’d thought of before CC21, but maybe we can do
it in the future. Frequently, the CC chairs will give away a membership or
two at various masq competitions to BIS winner(s) and/or the Most Promising
Novice (I love that award title). But they pretty much are a nobody when
they come to a CC if they’ve never been before. So why not introduce them
onstage at some point — like during the half-tim? We could could give a
brief bio about them, what year, what they did, maybe even show a picture or
have them bring a part of their outfits if they aren’t competing.

If we’re going to make a big deal about the fact that they won a membership
to a CC, let’s make sure it’s a big deal that they’re there.

Bruce

 

Group: runacc Message: 169 From: Bruce & Nora Mai Date: 5/18/2003
Subject: Dealers Room
This is a question for Henry, but I’d like hear input from the rest of you.

Henry:

Can you ask your Liason about any feedback they got about how the other
dealers felt about Janet having a room all to herself? Our Liason feels
very strongly that this was very unfair to them. My position is, if she’s
willing to come with all her stuff, and pay appropriately, why not? How
important is it for AlterYears to be part of a mix, no matter how much she
brings? Is limiting all dealers to a certain number of tables inherently
fair?

Thanks.

Bruce

 

Group: runacc Message: 170 From: Bruce & Nora Mai Date: 5/18/2003
Subject: Historical Masq
Does anyone have a list yet of the Historical Masq participants?

Thanks.

Bruce

 

Group: runacc Message: 171 From: Andrew T Trembley Date: 5/18/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers Room

From: “Bruce & Nora Mai” <casamai@sbcglobal.net>

> Can you ask your Liason about any feedback they got about how the other
> dealers felt about Janet having a room all to herself? Our Liason feels
> very strongly that this was very unfair to them. My position is, if she’s
> willing to come with all her stuff, and pay appropriately, why not?

Business isn’t necessarily fair, that’s why it’s business.

Juried dealers rooms are unfair to the folks who don’t make it through the
jury process. Lotteried dealers rooms are unfair to the folks who lose out
in the lottery. Business is in general unfair to folks who have less
desirable products.

On the theoretical end of things, I agree with your position. If a dealer is
willing to pay for the space and is capable of filling the space, sell the
space to her or him.

AlterYears brings a broad and desirable line of products. Part of Janet’s
product line was in direct competition with Poison Pen Press. Her trims were
not directly in competition with the trim merchant; they had greatly
differing styles and stocks. The rest of the dealers didn’t really carry the
same product lines as Janet, so it was really no more competition to them
than any of the other dealers who carried different product lines. Is it any
more or less fair to the other dealers that AlterYears filled that room than
it would have been if 6 separate dealers filled that room?

Dealers make up a small portion of convention attendees. They do bring
something very important to the con, but their needs and desires need to be
balanced with the needs and desires of the rest of the membership.

I couldn’t have cared less that AlterYears was in that dealers’ room (even
if I did buy 2 books from Janet) because I see them at cons all the time.
That’s not the case for midwest and east-coast attendees who don’t and may
only know them through mail-order. At that point members of the con-com
could have said “we’d like to see AlterYears here, and we think other
attendees would too.”

You can set hard-and-fast rules, but sometimes it’s best to acknowledge that
bending them will result in a better show or a better con for the attendees.
As long as you’re honest that you are bending the rules and have a good
reason why, most folks will accept that.

andy

 

Group: runacc Message: 172 From: Betsy Delaney Date: 5/18/2003
Subject: Re: Historical Masq

That would be me. As soon as my sister is gone, I’m working on getting
all the participants and awards up on the site.

Henry or Jennifer: Please, please, please!!! Send me the doll contest
names and awards. REALLY!!!

Thanks,

Betsy

Bruce & Nora Mai wrote:

>
> Does anyone have a list yet of the Historical Masq participants?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Bruce
>
>
> View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> runacc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Betsy R. Delaney
Web Mistress at large

************************************************************************
http://www.WebInvent.com/ * http://www.hawkeswood.com/
http://www.Costume-Con.org/ * http://www.sickpups.org/
http://www.SchoolWithoutWalls.org/
************************************************************************

 

Group: runacc Message: 173 From: Ricky & Karen Dick Date: 5/18/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers Room

Bruce,
I was dealers room guy for CC-5 & 9

I feel the con and everyone are better serve by one big dealers room with
all dealers in it. It increases traffic flow for everyone concerned.
It also allows at least the chance that one new dealer with one little
table of worthwhile stuff doesn’t get ignored.

If thats the case, I really don’t have a big problem with how many tables
one dealer gets as long as there is a fair cross section of items availible .
For instance, lets say there are 30 tables in a room.Janet wants 10
that other trim guy that was there this time wants 5.
half the room is gone. maybe you should think twice before selling another
5 to a new trim guy.

It looked like there was no chance of one big room in Chicago, and I would
have probably handled it just as they did, IF I’m assuming they weren’t
turning down dozens of dealers.

I was talking to Nora in Chicago, and she mentioned Janet wanting her own room.
My thought then and now is that con space costs alot. I would hope that she
would be charged a price that would pay for twice the price of what the
hotel is charging, that way you’re paying for some of the other functions
space.
I always ran a dealers room to make money for the con.
At CC- 5 we put the exhibits into the dealer room to increase traffic flow.
I sold the tables at a cost to totally pay for the room, and that way our
exhibit space was essentially free.

How impotant is it for Alteryears to be there? I assume you mean to the con?
it’s not, there are other companies that can fill the bill, but there
should at least be a nod at loyalty to a long time dealer at CC and friend
of the con.

Of course if it’s a well attended CC, then it’s much more important TO
Alteryears to be there ( lets not forget the real reason Costume College
was founded) so a committee shouldn’t sell itself short.
She’s a smart business person, when its not worth it to her, she won’t be
there.

Ricky

it

>This is a question for Henry, but I’d like hear input from the rest of you.
>
>Henry:
>
>Can you ask your Liason about any feedback they got about how the other
>dealers felt about Janet having a room all to herself? Our Liason feels
>very strongly that this was very unfair to them. My position is, if she’s
>willing to come with all her stuff, and pay appropriately, why not? How
>important is it for AlterYears to be part of a mix, no matter how much she
>brings? Is limiting all dealers to a certain number of tables inherently
>fair?
>
>Thanks.
>
>Bruce
>
>
>
>
>View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>runacc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

 

Group: runacc Message: 174 From: Betsy Delaney Date: 5/18/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers Room

My personal opinion here:

I think my recommendation would be to limit tables based on the number
of available spaces, and only give exceptions to dealers who are already
signed up (first come, first served) for expansion when the con is
within a month or so of the date. Why? Because if you can’t fill the
room, you can then give the dealers the opportunity to expand. If you’re
overrun with dealers who want the space, a variety is a good thing.

I think we played it by ear for CC, and then when we got to the con and
several dealers were unable to show, we gave other dealers the
opportunity to expand into the spaces left open. I didn’t hear any
complaints from anyone at the con concerning the change.

My suggested limit would be based on the total size of the room. I would
be tempted (and I think we did this at CCXV) to limit to two per dealer
unless special arrangements were requested. Three was the absolute
maximum.

Note that my recollection is fuzzy, and that my dealer room coordinator
bailed out on me less than six months prior to the con, leaving me with
the icky task of following up on the work she didn’t do myself. I
learned more than I ever want to know about how to run a dealer room
after that little fiasco.

Cheers,

Betsy

Bruce & Nora Mai wrote:

>
> This is a question for Henry, but I’d like hear input from the rest of you.
>
> Henry:
>
> Can you ask your Liason about any feedback they got about how the other
> dealers felt about Janet having a room all to herself? Our Liason feels
> very strongly that this was very unfair to them. My position is, if she’s
> willing to come with all her stuff, and pay appropriately, why not? How
> important is it for AlterYears to be part of a mix, no matter how much she
> brings? Is limiting all dealers to a certain number of tables inherently
> fair?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Bruce


Betsy R. Delaney
Web Mistress at large

************************************************************************
http://www.WebInvent.com/ * http://www.hawkeswood.com/
http://www.Costume-Con.org/ * http://www.sickpups.org/
http://www.SchoolWithoutWalls.org/
************************************************************************

 

Group: runacc Message: 175 From: Elaine Mami Date: 5/18/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers Room

For Janet to bring that much stuff, and the people to staff the room, it had
to be costly. I feel that any dealer who has the where-withall to
transport, and the quality and variety of merchandise, should be allowed to.
The attendees benefit!

I personally would have preferred to see all the dealers in one room, but it
isn’t always possible to get a room big enough. Knowing that a CC will be
having a kick-ass dealers’ room(s) can be a big draw.

Elaine

—– Original Message —–
From: Bruce & Nora Mai <casamai@sbcglobal.net>
To: <runacc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2003 6:15 PM
Subject: [runacc] Dealers Room

> This is a question for Henry, but I’d like hear input from the rest of
you.
>
> Henry:
>
> Can you ask your Liason about any feedback they got about how the other
> dealers felt about Janet having a room all to herself? Our Liason feels
> very strongly that this was very unfair to them. My position is, if she’s
> willing to come with all her stuff, and pay appropriately, why not? How
> important is it for AlterYears to be part of a mix, no matter how much she
> brings? Is limiting all dealers to a certain number of tables inherently
> fair?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Bruce
>
>
>
>
> View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> runacc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

 

Group: runacc Message: 176 From: Ricky & Karen Dick Date: 5/18/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers Room

Has CC ever considered doing what other S/F conventions have done–book a
block of rooms on one floor of the hotel and turn them into Dealer’s Row?

This has the advantage of (1) not limiting dealer space, (2) letting
dealers set their own hours, (3) dealers with clothing items have built-in
“dressing rooms” (bathroom). It also frees up regular convention function
space for panels and displays.

Thoughts?

–Karen

At 09:47 PM 5/18/2003 -0400, you wrote:

>For Janet to bring that much stuff, and the people to staff the room, it had
>to be costly. I feel that any dealer who has the where-withall to
>transport, and the quality and variety of merchandise, should be allowed to.
>The attendees benefit!
>
>I personally would have preferred to see all the dealers in one room, but it
>isn’t always possible to get a room big enough. Knowing that a CC will be
>having a kick-ass dealers’ room(s) can be a big draw.
>
>Elaine
>
>—– Original Message —–
>From: Bruce & Nora Mai <casamai@sbcglobal.net>
>To: <runacc@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2003 6:15 PM
>Subject: [runacc] Dealers Room
>
>
> > This is a question for Henry, but I’d like hear input from the rest of
>you.
> >
> > Henry:
> >
> > Can you ask your Liason about any feedback they got about how the other
> > dealers felt about Janet having a room all to herself? Our Liason feels
> > very strongly that this was very unfair to them. My position is, if she’s
> > willing to come with all her stuff, and pay appropriately, why not? How
> > important is it for AlterYears to be part of a mix, no matter how much she
> > brings? Is limiting all dealers to a certain number of tables inherently
> > fair?
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Bruce
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > runacc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>runacc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

 

Group: runacc Message: 177 From: Karen Heim Date: 5/18/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers Room

Elaine Mami wrote:

> Knowing that a CC will be
>having a kick-ass dealers’ room(s) can be a big draw.
>

It is for me (even if I don’t end up spending a lot – my money is kinda
tight). Especially when buying books, I REALLY want to see what’s in it
before forking over $20+, so I can make wise decisions.

And Karen Dick wrote:

Has CC ever considered doing what other S/F conventions have done–book a
block of rooms on one floor of the hotel and turn them into Dealer’s Row?

This has the advantage of (1) not limiting dealer space, (2) letting
dealers set their own hours, (3) dealers with clothing items have built-in
“dressing rooms” (bathroom). It also frees up regular convention function
space for panels and displays.

I’ve seen this, and I have mixed feelings. I like the idea in concept,
but want to be sensitive to other hotel patrons. It could get rather noisy.

At one convention, the rooms have rear sliding doors that open up into a
central atrium, where the games and pool are located. I like this,
because you expect that area to be noisier.

Karen

 

Group: runacc Message: 178 From: Trudy Leonard Date: 5/19/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers Room

I’m very interested in hearing everyone’s thoughts on this. Janet has
indicated an interest in bring her truck full of stuff to Atlanta. At the
moment, I don’t really have anywhere to put her. Our space is at a premium.
Even though we have the entire convention area, it ain’t that big. I can
fit 14 tables and the doll exhibit into our dealer’s room. I could fit more
if I put tables down the middle of the room, but I am hoping to have enough
space for people to move comfortably. There is another space that I might
be able to get from the hotel, but it won’t be in the convention area, but
will be just off the hotel lobby. I would love for the folks here who don’t
have access to a G Street, or Alter Years or some other source for all the
historical patterns, accessories, etc, to have a chance to buy some of these
things. On the other hand, Poison Pen is already booked as one of the
dealers, and I hate to lessen her sales (even if it is “business”).

I’m not too keen on the “selling out of a hotel room” idea. I don’t think
you would do as well if folks had to find you and not have you right there
in the traffic flow. One of the reasons, besides space, that we are putting
the dolls in the dealers room is to increase the traffic for both.

Trudy

>From: Bruce & Nora Mai <casamai@sbcglobal.net>
>Reply-To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
>To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [runacc] Dealers Room
>Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 17:15:03 -0500
>
>This is a question for Henry, but I’d like hear input from the rest of you.
>
>Henry:
>
>Can you ask your Liason about any feedback they got about how the other
>dealers felt about Janet having a room all to herself? Our Liason feels
>very strongly that this was very unfair to them. My position is, if she’s
>willing to come with all her stuff, and pay appropriately, why not? How
>important is it for AlterYears to be part of a mix, no matter how much she
>brings? Is limiting all dealers to a certain number of tables inherently
>fair?
>
>Thanks.
>
>Bruce
>
>
>
>
>View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>runacc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
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Group: runacc Message: 179 From: Andrew T Trembley Date: 5/19/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers Room

From: “Ricky & Karen Dick” <castleb@pulsenet.com>

> Has CC ever considered doing what other S/F conventions have done–book a
> block of rooms on one floor of the hotel and turn them into Dealer’s Row?

I’ve been on the dealers’-table side of this.

It rots.

It rots big time.

I would never deal at a convention under these conditions again.

Having to turn one’s room into dealer space is bad. Folks knocking at all
hours makes it worse.

It’s a bad thing.

andy

 

Group: runacc Message: 180 From: Charles Galway Date: 5/19/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers Room

I can see a good question here. It sounds like you are considering a space for Dealers similar to the size we were considering. And then I met one of our prospective dealers in action, and realized that a fabric vendor can take up twice the room I had figured.

We can expand into a larger space (the ballroom), which we may do, but it would be significantly more $. And I think we will try to limit the number of vendors while still trying to keep a good variety. (Since many of the vendors are probably coming in from out of area, they risk more. Local vendors at a local con have lower costs, and can use the exposure for publicity.)

And I think putting exhibits in/close to vendors is a good idea.

What’s the square footage of the room you were considering?

Charles

Message—–
From: Trudy Leonard <georgialei@hotmail.com>

I’m very interested in hearing everyone’s thoughts on this. Janet has

>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

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Group: runacc Message: 181 From: Tina Connell Date: 5/19/2003
Subject: Re: Newcomers

I think that both of these ideas are quite good. As most (if not all) of
you are aware, I seldom costume, and mostly work backstage in the Green
Room. Therefore, even though I’ve been to most CC’s from CC3 onward, as
well as many Worldcons and East Coast regionals, my perspective isn’t quite
the same as that of people who have been seasoned costumers for lo – these
many years. I thought that the newbie ribbons at CC16 were a GREAT idea,
and in fact have been rather surprised that it hasn’t been done (in any
organized sense) since.

For CC18 (I got stuck with doing all of the publications except the FFF) I
created a sort of “Hello new costumers” FAQ sheet. It did not,
unfortunately, address all aspects of CC’s, and at this point is somewhat
dated (for instance, the information regarding tape vs. CD for sound track),
and does not explain any of the jargon, such as stage right/stage left and
lighting terminalogy, but it was an attempt to answer a lot of the most
basic questions on one double-sided page. I’m attaching it, in both
WordPerfect and MSWord (ptooey!) formats, FYI. It might serve as a jumping
off point, or you may find bits of it worth including in a new and improved
equivalent.

Allison Pace’s comments, forwarded by Andy Trembley, were also quite
illuminating, and indeed, some sort of overview would also help to remind
the old guard what CC is all about — perhaps an inserted “Intro to CC”
sheet tucked inside the front cover of Progress Report 1 (and handed out
with later publications to new members who join after later PR’s are out).
There are, I am sure, other CC hangers-on such as myself who seldom appear
on stage and whose grasp of the more technical aspects is weak, at best.

Tina

—– Original Message —–
From: “Bruce & Nora Mai” <casamai@sbcglobal.net>
To: <runacc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2003 5:41 PM
Subject: [runacc] Newcomers

> Nora and I do some of our best brainstorming in the car while running
> errands. Nora had a couple of very good ideas I think folks ought to
> consider in the future:
>
> 1. Create a position like “Newbie Liason”. It’s sort of the same idea
that
> Betsy mentined of the “ambassadors”, only having one person specificaly
> charged iwth coming up with ideas to bring the vifgins more quickly into
the
> community.
>
> We had a new person from our group speak of how “exclusinve” the ICG felt
to
> her in her first CC experience (never mind that a lot of the CC attendees
> aren’t even ICG — she doesn’t understand the format yet). Well, I think
> she was expecting people to seek her out, and that’s generally not what
> people do as a rule. Sure, there are individuals who try to make an
effort,
> but they ususally can’t find them all or have the time because they’re
> con-goers themselves.
>
> For CC16, we had a ribbon or something to identify new people, and
> encouraged all the con-goers to approach them. Not sure how successful
that
> was specifically, but people liked the con. I had any number of people I
> didn’t know that stopped me to say they were having a great time.
>
> Anyway, expanding upon this idea, the Liason could maybe actually give a
> tour of the con. They would maybe start with a panel (find out who they
> are, where they come from, their backgrouind), then take them around and
> show them the Exhibits, the Dealers room, where the masqs and Green Room
> are, the Con Suite, what to expect at panels, etc. Also included would be
> some sort of “Meet the Vets” session, or at least buttonhole the “names”
of
> Costuming and introduce them to folks so they would have at least passing
> familiarity with people we all mention often in a group. And, that would
> include most of you here, like Ricky and Karen, Marty, the Hylls, Carl &
> Elaine, Jacqui, the Pettingers, the MacDermotts — people like that.
> Maybe the Liason could have a photo album with sample works, just in case.
> I think this would work better than a panel, because I just don’t think
> people would go to a panel of people telling all about themselves. Maybe
> this part could be done in the Con Suite at some point.
>
> I think this could be a fun job!
>
> 2. The other idea I wish we’d thought of before CC21, but maybe we can do
> it in the future. Frequently, the CC chairs will give away a membership
or
> two at various masq competitions to BIS winner(s) and/or the Most
Promising
> Novice (I love that award title). But they pretty much are a nobody when
> they come to a CC if they’ve never been before. So why not introduce them
> onstage at some point — like during the half-tim? We could could give a
> brief bio about them, what year, what they did, maybe even show a picture
or
> have them bring a part of their outfits if they aren’t competing.
>
> If we’re going to make a big deal about the fact that they won a
membership
> to a CC, let’s make sure it’s a big deal that they’re there.
>
> Bruce
>
>
>
>
> View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> runacc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

———-

WPCX

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 

Group: runacc Message: 182 From: henryosier@cs.com Date: 5/19/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers Room
Bruce, and all,
I believe that Jennifer Kelley is part of this group, but I will
forward your question to her, as well as Kyym Kimple, the guy who ran our
Dealers’ Room.
In my opinion, if dealer wants to “buy” half the area, so what?
Janet/AlterYears had a nice variety of stuff, so it worked out well. I’d have
a problem with a dealer buying so much space if the only had one item to
sell. One of the perks of having AlterYears there is that I have heard that
they sometimes have problems getting mail orders out, so you could buy it and
get it in your hands. I also remember Janet mentioning that CC21 was the
first CC she had been to in some time, but that is aside to the issue of the
Dealers’ Room.
The biggest thing that we, the CC21 staff, was concerned about was
having a balance of dealers. We didn’t want wall-to-wall garb dealers, all
with the same garb. That would be unfair to both dealers and attendees.
If I hear from Jennifer or Kyym about the subject, I’ll forward
their comments to the list.
Henry
PS Bruce & Nora, on a personal note, after going to your CC, the
Milwaukee CC21 staff really wanted to get Clearwater Hats, but they had
something else going that weekend!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 

Group: runacc Message: 183 From: henryosier@cs.com Date: 5/19/2003
Subject: Re: Historical Masq

In a message dated 5/18/2003 5:15:58 PM Central Daylight Time,
casamai@sbcglobal.net writes:

> Does anyone have a list yet of the Historical Masq participants?

I have it stowed away in some file. I believe it also went out via the ICG
e-group as well. I’ll look around for it and send it out, unless someone else
beats me to it!
Henry

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 

Group: runacc Message: 184 From: Ricky & Karen Dick Date: 5/19/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers Room

We’ve done this at regular cons, clown cons, and magic cons, and hopefully
will be doing it at Arisia this year.

We love.

We love it big time

I would always be willing to consider this

>Having to turn one’s room into dealer space is bad.

Turning youre room into a dealers room is great. makes your own hours, and
the more they partied at night the more they spent.

>Folks knocking at all
>hours makes it worse.

so we hung a sign on the door to explain things, but since we’re night owls
it wasn’t a problem.

>It’s a bad thing.

It’s wonderful

however, one big dealers room is still best, this is a way to expand if
you’re short on space.

Ricky

 

Group: runacc Message: 185 From: henryosier@cs.com Date: 5/19/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers Room

In a message dated 5/18/2003 9:12:30 PM Central Daylight Time,
castleb@pulsenet.com writes:

> Has CC ever considered doing what other S/F conventions have done–book a
> block of rooms on one floor of the hotel and turn them into Dealer’s Row?

I worked a convention in the Chicagoland area that only ran one year. It did
that. All those things you mentioned, like dealers set their own hours,
dressing rooms, bathrooms, were nice. But, on the down-side, they are limited
to area, and the con’s income suffers because of it. We set up our Dealers’
Room prices so that those rooms pay for themselves. A dealer like AlterYears
needed the space we had. Also, I know that the dealers like to socialize
amongst themselves and some we had lived close by, so they went home every
night and saved money.
At best, I see the Dealers’ Room vs. Dealers’ Row/Floor question as
a six-of-one,-half-dozen-of-the-other situation.
Henry Osier

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 

Group: runacc Message: 186 From: Martin Gear Date: 5/19/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers Room
Re Dealers’ Row versus Dealers’ Room –
Arisia does this and many of the dealers love it for all of the reasons
that Ricky mentioned. Those who don’t like it either go into the “main”
dealers’ room or don’t go to Arisia. Arisia is very lucky in that they
have the Park Plaza which is large enough that they can turn over half a
floor (or more) to a dealers’ row and then throw in a con suite and/or
green room and not disturb anyone who is not part of the convention. On
the other hand many hotels have said, “Absolutely NOT!” so it really
depends upon venue.

^M^

 

Group: runacc Message: 187 From: Bruce & Nora Mai Date: 5/19/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers Room
The only time I’ve seen the Dealer’s Row work well from a buyer perspective
(i.e’ not having to hunt down the section of the hotel they’re in) is as
KarenH mentioned before.
The rooms at the hotel in question has sliding glass doors on one side
(standard entrance at the other) which open out onto a boradwalk alongside
an enclosed pool/recreation atrium with a bar and tables. This worked well
because people were strolling through that area to get to other function
rooms and it worked a little like an open-air (albeit covered) bazaar. Very
nice, actually. But in most hotels it doesn’t seem to work very well.

Nora

 

Group: runacc Message: 188 From: Byron Connell Date: 5/19/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers Room

My subjective impression is that CC dealers’ rooms have gotten smaller over the years and have come to have less variety of wares than they used to. I certainly hope that you can reverse that. The ability to list AlterYears in PRs as one of the confirmed dealers can be a very good draw, especially in an area that has less access to major costume supply sources.

I believe that, on the East Coast, Arisia is the only SF con that consistently has a dealers’ row of hotel rooms as well as a dealers’ room. While this arrangement certainly is convenient for dealers who can set their own hours, such dealers may have a disadvantage in comparison to those in the dealers’ room. I do know that there have been years when I have never gotten to Arisia’s dealers’ row but have concentrated on the dealers’ room. I wonder if others have had similar experiences.

I don’t know about putting the doll exhibit in the same room with the dealers. I would prefer to keep them separate, if possible, and put the dolls elsewhere, perhaps in thee same space as a costume exhibit, as CC 21 did. I say this because I am concerned that the dolls may get lost in the hubbub of a dealers’ room while, at the same time, eating up space the con otherwise could rent to additional dealers. The doll display may be an attraction that will bring in members, but the dealers’ room is one of the con’s few income centers and every available inch should be rented to dealers.

Byron

—– Original Message —–
From: Trudy Leonard
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, May 19, 2003 12:49 AM
Subject: Re: [runacc] Dealers Room

I’m very interested in hearing everyone’s thoughts on this. Janet has
indicated an interest in bring her truck full of stuff to Atlanta. At the
moment, I don’t really have anywhere to put her. Our space is at a premium.
Even though we have the entire convention area, it ain’t that big. I can
fit 14 tables and the doll exhibit into our dealer’s room. I could fit more
if I put tables down the middle of the room, but I am hoping to have enough
space for people to move comfortably. There is another space that I might
be able to get from the hotel, but it won’t be in the convention area, but
will be just off the hotel lobby. I would love for the folks here who don’t
have access to a G Street, or Alter Years or some other source for all the
historical patterns, accessories, etc, to have a chance to buy some of these
things. On the other hand, Poison Pen is already booked as one of the
dealers, and I hate to lessen her sales (even if it is “business”).

I’m not too keen on the “selling out of a hotel room” idea. I don’t think
you would do as well if folks had to find you and not have you right there
in the traffic flow. One of the reasons, besides space, that we are putting
the dolls in the dealers room is to increase the traffic for both.

Trudy

>From: Bruce & Nora Mai <casamai@sbcglobal.net>
>Reply-To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
>To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [runacc] Dealers Room
>Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 17:15:03 -0500
>
>This is a question for Henry, but I’d like hear input from the rest of you.
>
>Henry:
>
>Can you ask your Liason about any feedback they got about how the other
>dealers felt about Janet having a room all to herself? Our Liason feels
>very strongly that this was very unfair to them. My position is, if she’s
>willing to come with all her stuff, and pay appropriately, why not? How
>important is it for AlterYears to be part of a mix, no matter how much she
>brings? Is limiting all dealers to a certain number of tables inherently
>fair?
>
>Thanks.
>
>Bruce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 

Group: runacc Message: 189 From: Ricky & Karen Dick Date: 5/19/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers Room

At 08:01 PM 5/19/2003 -0400, you wrote:

>I don’t know about putting the doll exhibit in the same room with the
>dealers. I would prefer to keep them separate, if possible, and put the
>dolls elsewhere, perhaps in thee same space as a costume exhibit, as CC 21
>did. I say this because I am concerned that the dolls may get lost in the
>hubbub of a dealers’ room while, at the same time, eating up space the con
>otherwise could rent to additional dealers. The doll display may be an
>attraction that will bring in members, but the dealers’ room is one of the
>con’s few income centers and every available inch should be rented to dealers.

Another comment along these same lines–

CC-4 mixed exhibits and dealers, and I was always afraid attendees wouldn’t
understand what was for sale and what wasn’t (this applies to the doll
contest also). Best to keep sales stuff and not for sale stuff separate.

–Karen

 

Group: runacc Message: 190 From: Andrew Trembley Date: 5/19/2003
Subject: Exhibits/Dealers (was Re: Dealers Room)

On Monday, May 19, 2003, at 06:09 PM, Ricky & Karen Dick wrote:

> CC-4 mixed exhibits and dealers, and I was always afraid attendees
> wouldn’t
> understand what was for sale and what wasn’t (this applies to the doll
> contest also). Best to keep sales stuff and not for sale stuff
> separate.

CC17 had the doll exhibit at one end of the dealers’ room. It was
fairly small, and obviously wasn’t connected to the dealers’ tables. Of
course, the dealers weren’t tightly packed into that space.

It was rather nice because the doll exhibit was very prominent, but I
can understand that how well this works is greatly dependent on the
space and the people.

If there’s tons of space, putting exhibits in the same room as dealers
can increase traffic through exhibits, and that’s a good thing. If
space is tight, putting exhibits in the same room as dealers will
result in confusion and a traffic jam, which is a bad thing.

I don’t think this is something we can answer in anything more than the
vaguest terms in our CC Runner’s Guide.


andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen
http://www.irlm.org/ – mailto:webmaster@irlm.org
“Anybody who takes this seriously deserves to”
— Donna Barr

 

Group: runacc Message: 191 From: Elaine Mami Date: 5/20/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers Room

I have to agree with Byron, from the shoppers’ point of view. At CC17, the
dolls were in the dealers’ room, and I saw many people pass them with a
glance while heading for the tables. Others, like myself, were in the way
of the shoppers as we tried to stand still and enjoy the display.

At CCs 16 & 21, I was able to enjoy the dolls and the exhibits in the
relative calm that the dealers’ room lacked.

Elaine

> My subjective impression is that CC dealers’ rooms have gotten smaller

over the years and have come to have less variety of wares than they used
to. I certainly hope that you can reverse that. The ability to list
AlterYears in PRs as one of the confirmed dealers can be a very good draw,
especially in an area that has less access to major costume supply sources.

>
> I believe that, on the East Coast, Arisia is the only SF con that

consistently has a dealers’ row of hotel rooms as well as a dealers’ room.
While this arrangement certainly is convenient for dealers who can set their
own hours, such dealers may have a disadvantage in comparison to those in
the dealers’ room. I do know that there have been years when I have never
gotten to Arisia’s dealers’ row but have concentrated on the dealers’ room.
I wonder if others have had similar experiences.

>
> I don’t know about putting the doll exhibit in the same room with the

dealers. I would prefer to keep them separate, if possible, and put the
dolls elsewhere, perhaps in thee same space as a costume exhibit, as CC 21
did. I say this because I am concerned that the dolls may get lost in the
hubbub of a dealers’ room while, at the same time, eating up space the con
otherwise could rent to additional dealers. The doll display may be an
attraction that will bring in members, but the dealers’ room is one of the
con’s few income centers and every available inch should be rented to
dealers.

>
> Byron

 

Group: runacc Message: 192 From: Tina Connell Date: 5/20/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers Room

Well, for starters, what would Janet think about being put in a room away from the other dealers’ room? Or are you saying that there is a larger room off the lobby which would accommodate bothe Alter Years and the other dealers as well? Off the lobby could have its advantages. BTW, I looked pretty closely at the books offered by both Poison Pen and Alter Years (as did Byron) and there really wasn’t a lot of overlap. It was nice having the extra variety. I bought books from both of them. And speaking of variety, FABRIC! We hardly ever see it in dealers rooms. If you can get a fabric dealer in, that would be a good thing! (Assuming the dealer has decent stuff.)

Incidentally, if I were making the decision I wouldn’t put the dolls in Dealers. Too much chance for them to get damaged, and if they’re near a popular dealer, not very accessible after all.

Tina

—– Original Message —–
From: Trudy Leonard
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, May 19, 2003 12:49 AM
Subject: Re: [runacc] Dealers Room

I’m very interested in hearing everyone’s thoughts on this. Janet has
indicated an interest in bring her truck full of stuff to Atlanta. At the
moment, I don’t really have anywhere to put her. Our space is at a premium.
Even though we have the entire convention area, it ain’t that big. I can
fit 14 tables and the doll exhibit into our dealer’s room. I could fit more
if I put tables down the middle of the room, but I am hoping to have enough
space for people to move comfortably. There is another space that I might
be able to get from the hotel, but it won’t be in the convention area, but
will be just off the hotel lobby. I would love for the folks here who don’t
have access to a G Street, or Alter Years or some other source for all the
historical patterns, accessories, etc, to have a chance to buy some of these
things. On the other hand, Poison Pen is already booked as one of the
dealers, and I hate to lessen her sales (even if it is “business”).

I’m not too keen on the “selling out of a hotel room” idea. I don’t think
you would do as well if folks had to find you and not have you right there
in the traffic flow. One of the reasons, besides space, that we are putting
the dolls in the dealers room is to increase the traffic for both.

Trudy

>From: Bruce & Nora Mai <casamai@sbcglobal.net>
>Reply-To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
>To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [runacc] Dealers Room
>Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 17:15:03 -0500
>
>This is a question for Henry, but I’d like hear input from the rest of you.
>
>Henry:
>
>Can you ask your Liason about any feedback they got about how the other
>dealers felt about Janet having a room all to herself? Our Liason feels
>very strongly that this was very unfair to them. My position is, if she’s
>willing to come with all her stuff, and pay appropriately, why not? How
>important is it for AlterYears to be part of a mix, no matter how much she
>brings? Is limiting all dealers to a certain number of tables inherently
>fair?
>
>Thanks.
>
>Bruce
>
>
>
>
>View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>runacc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 

Group: runacc Message: 193 From: Tina Connell Date: 5/20/2003
Subject: Re: Newcomers

I attached the files, but they went off into Never-Never Land, so I’m trying
again.

Tina

—– Original Message —–
From: “Tina Connell” <cvconnel@nycap.rr.com>
To: <runacc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, May 19, 2003 7:34 AM
Subject: Re: [runacc] Newcomers

(snip)

For CC18 (I got stuck with doing all of the publications except the FFF) I
created a sort of “Hello new costumers” FAQ sheet. It did not,
unfortunately, address all aspects of CC’s, and at this point is somewhat
dated (for instance, the information regarding tape vs. CD for sound track),
and does not explain any of the jargon, such as stage right/stage left and
lighting terminalogy, but it was an attempt to answer a lot of the most
basic questions on one double-sided page. I’m attaching it, in both
WordPerfect and MSWord (ptooey!) formats, FYI. It might serve as a jumping
off point, or you may find bits of it worth including in a new and improved
equivalent.

———-

WPCX

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 

Group: runacc Message: 194 From: Les Roth Date: 5/20/2003
Subject: Re: Newcomers

Tina,

I’m not sure that Yahoo groups will permit enclosures. Note the
“Non-Text” message below.

Les

Live, never to be ashamed if everything you do is published around the
world. Even if what is published is not true. — Richard Bach

On Tuesday, May 20, 2003, at 06:46 AM, Tina Connell wrote:

> I attached the files, but they went off into Never-Never Land, so I’m
> trying
> again.
>
> Tina
>
>

> ———-
>
> ÿWPCX
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
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> ———————————————————————
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>
> View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> runacc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

 

Group: runacc Message: 195 From: betsy Date: 5/20/2003
Subject: Re: Newcomers

That’s correct. There is, however, a file transfer/upload facility available
through the main page of Yahoo Groups.

Go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/runacc/ and you will find all the options
available to the members of this list on the left side of the window.

You may create folders, upload files and do all sorts of other nifty stuff
right there.

The system will even let people know when a file has been uploaded to the
system.

Cool, huh?

Betsy

On Tue, 20 May 2003 07:57:06 -0500, Les Roth wrote

> Tina,
>
> I’m not sure that Yahoo groups will permit enclosures. Note the
> “Non-Text” message below.
>
> Les


Betsy R. Delaney
Web Mistress at large
WebInvent.com, Inc.

************************************************************************
www.WebInvent.com * www.Costume-Con.org * www.hawkeswood.com
************************************************************************

 

Group: runacc Message: 196 From: henryosier@cs.com Date: 5/20/2003
Subject: Dealers’ Room
Hello!
I got this response from Kyym Kimple, the guy who ran our Dealers’
Room at CC21.
Henry Osier

Henry
The Dealers at CC 21 were some of the nicest people I have encountered
in my convention career. I can honestly say that no dealer had any problem
with how the dealers area was set up. The truth be known many of the dealers
were happy to have AlterYears in attendances. Most of the if not all of the
dealers showed a profit from the convention.I believe if convention
organizers would consider what’s good for the attendees and treat the dealers
they have in attendance as the valuable commodity that they are than they
will have as good a convention as we had. The only feedback that I received
from any of the dealers was positive, during and after the convention. So if
the people observing from the outside feel that the dealers room should have
allowed equality in the number of tables each dealer is allowed instead of
quality of vendors perhaps they should consider who the convention is being
done for the attendees or the poltically correct non-attendees.

Kyym

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 

Group: runacc Message: 197 From: Ricky & Karen Dick Date: 5/20/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers’ Room

The only thing I didn’t like about the CC-21 dealer’s room took place
before the con: the “juried” method of selecting dealers.

As a self-employed businessperson (as most dealers are), money is always
tight. There was NO WAY I was going to pay for dealer space in advance and
then wait *months* for the committee to decide if I actually could vend at
the con or not.

Anybody else have thoughts on a “juried” vs. “first come, first served”
approach?

–Karen

At 11:33 AM 5/20/2003 -0400, you wrote:

>Hello!
> I got this response from Kyym Kimple, the guy who ran our Dealers’
>Room at CC21.
> Henry Osier

 

Group: runacc Message: 198 From: Ricky & Karen Dick Date: 5/20/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers Room

At 07:16 AM 5/20/2003 -0400, you wrote:

> And speaking of variety, FABRIC! We hardly ever see it in dealers
> rooms. If you can get a fabric dealer in, that would be a good
> thing! (Assuming the dealer has decent stuff.)

CC-3 had two fabric dealers, and I bought from both of them.

CCXV had Timeless Textiles (also somebody with vintage “ethnic” textiles)
and I think they did a boffo business.

Obviously, fabric can take up a LOT of space in a very short time, and
local fabric stores may not be keen on packing up their inventory to schlep
to a con. But fabric always does well.

–Karen

 

Group: runacc Message: 199 From: henryosier@cs.com Date: 5/20/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers’ Room: Juried vs First-Come, First Served
The reason that we went with the juried approach was to eliminate dealers
with the table full of action figures and ones with stuff that wasn’t
costuming orientated. We felt that this was fair to the dealers, who want to
make money, and the attendees.
Henry Osier

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 

Group: runacc Message: 200 From: Ricky & Karen Dick Date: 5/20/2003
Subject: Re: Dealers’ Room: Juried vs First-Come, First Served

At 11:50 AM 5/20/2003 -0400, you wrote:

>The reason that we went with the juried approach was to eliminate dealers
>with the table full of action figures and ones with stuff that wasn’t
>costuming orientated.

I don’t think any Costume-Con has ever had non-costuming oriented dealers
apply for space.

Anyone?

–Karen

 

 

Yahoo Archive: Page 3 of 67

Messages in runacc group. Page 3 of 67.

Group: runacc Message: 101 From: Byron Connell Date: 5/6/2003
Subject: Re: Date ideas
Group: runacc Message: 102 From: Andrew Trembley Date: 5/6/2003
Subject: Re: Outline from the White Board at CC21
Group: runacc Message: 103 From: Elaine Mami Date: 5/6/2003
Subject: Re: Outline from the White Board at CC21
Group: runacc Message: 104 From: Andrew Trembley Date: 5/6/2003
Subject: Re: Outline from the White Board at CC21
Group: runacc Message: 105 From: Byron Connell Date: 5/6/2003
Subject: Re: Shuttle rates
Group: runacc Message: 106 From: Martin Gear Date: 5/6/2003
Subject: Re: Date ideas
Group: runacc Message: 107 From: Andrew Trembley Date: 5/6/2003
Subject: Re: Shuttle rates
Group: runacc Message: 108 From: Elaine Mami Date: 5/6/2003
Subject: Re: Outline from the White Board at CC21
Group: runacc Message: 109 From: Byron Connell Date: 5/6/2003
Subject: Re: Outline from the White Board at CC21
Group: runacc Message: 110 From: Byron Connell Date: 5/6/2003
Subject: Re: Shuttle rates
Group: runacc Message: 111 From: Trudy Leonard Date: 5/7/2003
Subject: Re: Outline from the White Board at CC21
Group: runacc Message: 112 From: Cliff and Eileen Date: 5/7/2003
Subject: Various Points
Group: runacc Message: 113 From: Ricky & Karen Dick Date: 5/7/2003
Subject: Re: Various Points
Group: runacc Message: 114 From: Sharon Date: 5/7/2003
Subject: Volunteers (was Various Points)
Group: runacc Message: 115 From: Martin Gear Date: 5/7/2003
Subject: Re: Various Points
Group: runacc Message: 116 From: Ricky & Karen Dick Date: 5/7/2003
Subject: Fwd: Re: [ICG-D] Welcoming Newcomers
Group: runacc Message: 117 From: Andrew Trembley Date: 5/7/2003
Subject: Re: Various Points
Group: runacc Message: 118 From: henryosier@cs.com Date: 5/7/2003
Subject: Re: Shuttle rates
Group: runacc Message: 119 From: henryosier@cs.com Date: 5/7/2003
Subject: Re: Volunteers (was Various Points)
Group: runacc Message: 120 From: Byron Connell Date: 5/7/2003
Subject: Re: Various Points
Group: runacc Message: 121 From: Byron Connell Date: 5/7/2003
Subject: Re: Various Points
Group: runacc Message: 122 From: Byron Connell Date: 5/7/2003
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [ICG-D] Welcoming Newcomers
Group: runacc Message: 123 From: Byron Connell Date: 5/7/2003
Subject: Re: Volunteers
Group: runacc Message: 124 From: Betsy Delaney Date: 5/7/2003
Subject: Re: Various Points
Group: runacc Message: 125 From: Byron Connell Date: 5/7/2003
Subject: Re: Volunteers (was Various Points)
Group: runacc Message: 126 From: Ricky & Karen Dick Date: 5/7/2003
Subject: Re: Various Points
Group: runacc Message: 127 From: Ricky & Karen Dick Date: 5/7/2003
Subject: Re: Volunteers (was Various Points)
Group: runacc Message: 128 From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger Date: 5/8/2003
Subject: Re: Date ideas
Group: runacc Message: 129 From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger Date: 5/8/2003
Subject: Re: Date ideas
Group: runacc Message: 130 From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger Date: 5/8/2003
Subject: Re: Volunteers (registration specifically)
Group: runacc Message: 131 From: Ricky & Karen Dick Date: 5/8/2003
Subject: Re: Volunteers (registration specifically)
Group: runacc Message: 132 From: Betsy Delaney Date: 5/8/2003
Subject: Re: Volunteers (registration specifically)
Group: runacc Message: 133 From: Andrew Trembley Date: 5/8/2003
Subject: Restaurants, Valentines and CC17 (was Re: Date ideas)
Group: runacc Message: 134 From: Bruce & Nora Mai Date: 5/8/2003
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [ICG-D] Welcoming Newcomers
Group: runacc Message: 135 From: Charles Galway Date: 5/8/2003
Subject: Re: Restaurants, Valentines and CC17 (was Re: Date ideas)
Group: runacc Message: 136 From: Kevin Roche Date: 5/8/2003
Subject: Re: Restaurants, Valentines and CC17 (was Re: Date ideas)
Group: runacc Message: 137 From: Betsy Delaney Date: 5/8/2003
Subject: Handling explanations of what’s going on/welcoming newbies
Group: runacc Message: 138 From: Andrew Trembley Date: 5/8/2003
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [ICG-D] Welcoming Newcomers
Group: runacc Message: 139 From: Andrew Trembley Date: 5/8/2003
Subject: Re: Restaurants, Valentines and CC17 (was Re: Date ideas)
Group: runacc Message: 140 From: Kevin Roche Date: 5/8/2003
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [ICG-D] Welcoming Newcomers
Group: runacc Message: 141 From: Bruce & Nora Mai Date: 5/8/2003
Subject: Re: CC23
Group: runacc Message: 142 From: Charles Galway Date: 5/8/2003
Subject: Re: Hotel staff (and a electrical power story) was Restaurants, Val
Group: runacc Message: 143 From: Andrew Trembley Date: 5/8/2003
Subject: Re: Hotel staff
Group: runacc Message: 144 From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger Date: 5/9/2003
Subject: Re: Restaurants, Valentines and CC17 (was Re: Date ideas)
Group: runacc Message: 145 From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger Date: 5/9/2003
Subject: Re: Restaurants, Valentines and CC17 (was Re: Date ideas)
Group: runacc Message: 146 From: Ricky & Karen Dick Date: 5/9/2003
Subject: Re: Restaurants, Valentines and CC17 (was Re: Date ideas)
Group: runacc Message: 147 From: Charles Galway Date: 5/9/2003
Subject: Re: Theater location Re: CC23
Group: runacc Message: 148 From: Charles Galway Date: 5/9/2003
Subject: Re: Quick adjustment in lighting, was Restaurants, Valentines
Group: runacc Message: 149 From: Elaine Mami Date: 5/9/2003
Subject: Re: Theater location Re: CC23
Group: runacc Message: 150 From: Ricky & Karen Dick Date: 5/9/2003
Subject: Re: Theater location Re: CC23

 


 

Group: runacc Message: 101 From: Byron Connell Date: 5/6/2003
Subject: Re: Date ideas

CC 9 was February 15-18, 1991, according to the Costume-ConNections web site..

Byron

—– Original Message —–
From: Martin Gear
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2003 1:13 PM
Subject: Re: [runacc] Re: Date ideas

Betsy Delaney wrote:
>
<snip>
> For example, here in Columbia, where two of the CCs were held (CC3 and
> CC9), we had Memorial Day and President’s Day weekends respectively. As
> I recall, the former was a major problem for our area because there’s an
> annual soccer tournament, and all the hotels are booked well in advance
> to accommodate all the out of town teams. (I’m certain Marty will
> correct me if I’m wrong, here.) I think that’s the main reason we chose
> to do CC9 in February. No soccer teams to worry about.

Sorry Betsy, but according to my records, we’ve held all three Baltimore
area CC’s over Memorial Day weekend. That was Disclave’s weekend, and
since Disclave did not generally do a masquerade, we offered a special
rate to Disclave members who wanted to come to Costume Con just for the
masquerades.

The soccer tournament was not a major problem for CC-3 although as Kathy
Sanders put it, “We were expecting (bass voice) SOCCER PLAYERS and we
got (falsetto voice) soccer players.” During that weekend the Hilton
was the headquarters hotel for the tournament and most of the teams
stayed with families in the area. By CC-9, the tournament has expanded
and we had a lot more soccer families staying at the Columbia Inn. Also
it became obvious that the Columbia Inn really did not have sufficient
function space for the size that Costume Con had become. We held CC-15
in downtown Baltimore over Memorial Day weekend because all of the
suburban hotels were now booked solid because of soccer tournaments in
the area. Given that, and the fact that BaltiCon [very costumer friendly
for those of you who never been] is now on Memorial Day weekend, I would
doubt that we will see any East Coast CC’s using that weekend.

^M^

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 

Group: runacc Message: 102 From: Andrew Trembley Date: 5/6/2003
Subject: Re: Outline from the White Board at CC21
I said I’d post the org table from our bid plans. This is what we have
so far, with some names filled in (trimmed from my working web-page
document).

The Executive Committee
Chairman: Kevin Roche
Vice-Chairman: Karen Tully
Treasurer: Lisa Deutsch Harrigan
Secretary:

Administration
The business functions of the conference… making sure we have a place
to hold it, figuring out what needs to be done, seeing that there are
people to get things done, ensuring that you can register and attend.
Facilities:
Operations: Sarah Goodman
Registration:
Volunteering:
Program & Events Scheduler: Yvette Keller
CC29 Site Selection:
Accountant: Allison Reddington

Communications
If a conference happened in the woods, and there was nobody to attend
it, would it really happen? Of course not. Our communications group is
here to make sure you’re not in the dark about what’s happening before
and at the convention.
Communications Manager: Lance Moore
Publications:
Bid Chair: Andy Trembley
Bid Committee
Nancy Mildebrandt & Glen Boettcher
Henry Osier
Sandra & Jim Manning
Sandra Childress & Jim Briggs
Byron & Tina Connell
Jan Price
Elaine & Carl Mami

Hospitality
Providing the best welcome we can…
Friday Night Social:
Con Suite: Sandra Childress
Fairy Godfather:

Contests
Future Fashion Folio:
Doll Contest: Carolyn Kayta Barrows

Events
Fantasy & Science Fiction Masquerade:
Historical Masquerade:
Future Fashion Show:
Single Pattern Competition: (Part of Future Fashion Show)

Event Support
House Manager:
Stage Manager: John O’Halloran
Green Room Manager:
Tech Manager: Carl “Z!” Zwanzig
Tech Crew
Official Photography:
Official Video:
Lights:
Sound:

Fixed Exhibits
Exhibits Coordinator: Sally Norton
Dealers’ Room Coordinator:

Programming
Panel Discussions and workshops don’t just happen.
Program Developer: Hilary Ayer


andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen
http://www.bovil.com/
“It’s not pink; it’s peach-colored. Pink is tacky.” –Manfred Pfirsich
Marie Rommel

 

Group: runacc Message: 103 From: Elaine Mami Date: 5/6/2003
Subject: Re: Outline from the White Board at CC21

Betsy, the only thing I can add to your list at this time is, for the
“during” section, availability of water!

Elaine

>

 

Group: runacc Message: 104 From: Andrew Trembley Date: 5/6/2003
Subject: Re: Outline from the White Board at CC21

On Tuesday, May 6, 2003, at 05:40 PM, Elaine Mami wrote:

> Betsy, the only thing I can add to your list at this time is, for the
> “during” section, availability of water!

Well, the original idea was that the Bid/Before/During/After is a grid
showing responsibilities of each department and when they come due, so
water is:

Hotel/Before making sure water service is detailed out in the contract
Hotel/During making sure the hotel is living up to the contract

Consuite/Before including water in the shopping list and is purchased
Consuite/During ensuring that water remains cold and stocked.

I’d actually place water as a detail item in the general
responsibilities list for both Hotel and Consuite instead of in the
Bid/Before/During/After grid. It’s the kind of thing the WSFS
“Nitpicking & Flyspecking Committee” takes care of at WorldCon. The
grid is more of a high-level planning calendar indicating when major
deadlines and responsibilities fall due.


Andy Trembley, Bull-in-Drag
The Bovine Illuminati (It’s the Cows, Inc.)
http://www.bovil.com/
Moo!

 

Group: runacc Message: 105 From: Byron Connell Date: 5/6/2003
Subject: Re: Shuttle rates

Rather than an abstract idea of “reasonable,” you need to compare the shuttle rate against the alternatives, such as (1) the cost of renting a car at the airport/train station/bus station and driving to the hotel (and back), (2) the cab fare from the airport/etc. to the hotel, and (3) public transportation, if available. My original comment was that I found $20.00 better that the alleged $50.00 on the cab meter.

Byron

—– Original Message —–
From: Charles Galway
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 12:17 AM
Subject: Re: [runacc] Shuttle rates

We had been getting prices quoted of about $26 one-way, with additional reductions for multiple passengers. While annoying, I considered this to be acceptable, IF the hotel, food, membership, air-fares were all at a reasonable rate. (Which we’re trying to do.) We plan to post current rates later, closer to one year out. (and maybe work out a group rate.)
Charles CC-23

—–Original Message—–
From: Byron Connell <bconnel1@nycap.rr.com>
<snip>
I have been happy to pay a flat $20 for a cab from O’Hare to an off-airport hotel in the Chicago area, compared to the about $50 I understand would be run up on the meter.

Byron

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 

Group: runacc Message: 106 From: Martin Gear Date: 5/6/2003
Subject: Re: Date ideas

Byron & Betsy –
I stand corrected. Sorry about that.

Marty

Byron Connell wrote:

>
> CC 9 was February 15-18, 1991, according to the Costume-ConNections web site..
>
> Byron

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 

Group: runacc Message: 107 From: Andrew Trembley Date: 5/6/2003
Subject: Re: Shuttle rates

On Tuesday, May 6, 2003, at 06:48 PM, Byron Connell wrote:

> Rather than an abstract idea of “reasonable,” you need to compare the
> shuttle rate against the alternatives, such as (1) the cost of renting
> a car at the airport/train station/bus station and driving to the
> hotel (and back), (2) the cab fare from the airport/etc. to the hotel,
> and (3) public transportation, if available. My original comment was
> that I found $20.00 better that the alleged $50.00 on the cab meter.

Exactly what I was trying to get to (but got distracted) in my earlier
note. There will be some sort of expense in getting to the con whether
you fly or drive.

This is not a cost the con can necessarily control, or should even have
responsibility for. If it’s not a controllable cost, agonizing over it
is pointless. Best to just list out alternatives.


andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen
http://www.bovil.com/
“It’s not pink; it’s peach-colored. Pink is tacky.” –Manfred Pfirsich
Marie Rommel

 

Group: runacc Message: 108 From: Elaine Mami Date: 5/6/2003
Subject: Re: Outline from the White Board at CC21

That’s what I get for flying instead of attending the meeting. I was just
thinking of “in the halls, in the function rooms” instead of “planning for
and assuring placement of.”

Elaine

Blessed are we who can laugh at ourselves, for we shall always be amused!

> On Tuesday, May 6, 2003, at 05:40 PM, Elaine Mami wrote:
> > Betsy, the only thing I can add to your list at this time is, for the
> > “during” section, availability of water!
>
> Well, the original idea was that the Bid/Before/During/After is a grid
> showing responsibilities of each department and when they come due, so
> water is:
>
> Hotel/Before making sure water service is detailed out in the contract
> Hotel/During making sure the hotel is living up to the contract
>
> Consuite/Before including water in the shopping list and is purchased
> Consuite/During ensuring that water remains cold and stocked.
>
> I’d actually place water as a detail item in the general
> responsibilities list for both Hotel and Consuite instead of in the
> Bid/Before/During/After grid. It’s the kind of thing the WSFS
> “Nitpicking & Flyspecking Committee” takes care of at WorldCon. The
> grid is more of a high-level planning calendar indicating when major
> deadlines and responsibilities fall due.
>
> —
> Andy Trembley, Bull-in-Drag
> The Bovine Illuminati (It’s the Cows, Inc.)
> http://www.bovil.com/
> Moo!
>
>
>
> View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> runacc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

 

Group: runacc Message: 109 From: Byron Connell Date: 5/6/2003
Subject: Re: Outline from the White Board at CC21

Actually, “water” is a fairly major item DURING the con for the members; therefore, it is an important item for inclusion in the guide. This is true not only in terms of set-ups for program items but more importantly in the masquerade green rooms, where it is a health and safety item. It may have to be specified in the hotel contract.

I do not know whether CC 21 had water set-ups for the green rooms. The absence of such set-ups for program items was very obvious, which suggests to me that it was not specified in the hotel contract.

Byron

—– Original Message —–
From: Andrew Trembley
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 9:09 PM
Subject: Re: [runacc] Outline from the White Board at CC21

On Tuesday, May 6, 2003, at 05:40 PM, Elaine Mami wrote:
> Betsy, the only thing I can add to your list at this time is, for the
> “during” section, availability of water!

Well, the original idea was that the Bid/Before/During/After is a grid
showing responsibilities of each department and when they come due, so
water is:

Hotel/Before making sure water service is detailed out in the contract
Hotel/During making sure the hotel is living up to the contract

Consuite/Before including water in the shopping list and is purchased
Consuite/During ensuring that water remains cold and stocked.

I’d actually place water as a detail item in the general
responsibilities list for both Hotel and Consuite instead of in the
Bid/Before/During/After grid. It’s the kind of thing the WSFS
“Nitpicking & Flyspecking Committee” takes care of at WorldCon. The
grid is more of a high-level planning calendar indicating when major
deadlines and responsibilities fall due.


Andy Trembley, Bull-in-Drag
The Bovine Illuminati (It’s the Cows, Inc.)
http://www.bovil.com/
Moo!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 

Group: runacc Message: 110 From: Byron Connell Date: 5/6/2003
Subject: Re: Shuttle rates

It may to some extent be a controllable cost, if the concom can negotiate the fee with the service provider. In that case, the concom needs to have some accurate benchmarks to use in determining whether or not this is a service worth contracting for.

Byron

—– Original Message —–
From: Andrew Trembley
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 9:55 PM
Subject: Re: [runacc] Shuttle rates

On Tuesday, May 6, 2003, at 06:48 PM, Byron Connell wrote:
> Rather than an abstract idea of “reasonable,” you need to compare the
> shuttle rate against the alternatives, such as (1) the cost of renting
> a car at the airport/train station/bus station and driving to the
> hotel (and back), (2) the cab fare from the airport/etc. to the hotel,
> and (3) public transportation, if available. My original comment was
> that I found $20.00 better that the alleged $50.00 on the cab meter.

Exactly what I was trying to get to (but got distracted) in my earlier
note. There will be some sort of expense in getting to the con whether
you fly or drive.

This is not a cost the con can necessarily control, or should even have
responsibility for. If it’s not a controllable cost, agonizing over it
is pointless. Best to just list out alternatives.


andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen
http://www.bovil.com/
“It’s not pink; it’s peach-colored. Pink is tacky.” –Manfred Pfirsich
Marie Rommel

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 

Group: runacc Message: 111 From: Trudy Leonard Date: 5/7/2003
Subject: Re: Outline from the White Board at CC21

Byron –

There were water set-ups in the greenroom, but there was a dearth of
glasses, so after the masquerade when I really needed a drink of water,
there were no clean glasses to be had. I’m not sure they expected as many
folks in the greenrooms as they had.

Trudy

>From: “Byron Connell” <bconnel1@nycap.rr.com>
>Reply-To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
>To: <runacc@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: Re: [runacc] Outline from the White Board at CC21
>Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 23:51:18 -0400
>
>Actually, “water” is a fairly major item DURING the con for the members;
>therefore, it is an important item for inclusion in the guide. This is
>true not only in terms of set-ups for program items but more importantly in
>the masquerade green rooms, where it is a health and safety item. It may
>have to be specified in the hotel contract.
>
>I do not know whether CC 21 had water set-ups for the green rooms. The
>absence of such set-ups for program items was very obvious, which suggests
>to me that it was not specified in the hotel contract.
>
>Byron
>
>
> —– Original Message —–
> From: Andrew Trembley
> To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 9:09 PM
> Subject: Re: [runacc] Outline from the White Board at CC21
>
>
> On Tuesday, May 6, 2003, at 05:40 PM, Elaine Mami wrote:
> > Betsy, the only thing I can add to your list at this time is, for the
> > “during” section, availability of water!
>
> Well, the original idea was that the Bid/Before/During/After is a grid
> showing responsibilities of each department and when they come due, so
> water is:
>
> Hotel/Before making sure water service is detailed out in the contract
> Hotel/During making sure the hotel is living up to the contract
>
> Consuite/Before including water in the shopping list and is purchased
> Consuite/During ensuring that water remains cold and stocked.
>
> I’d actually place water as a detail item in the general
> responsibilities list for both Hotel and Consuite instead of in the
> Bid/Before/During/After grid. It’s the kind of thing the WSFS
> “Nitpicking & Flyspecking Committee” takes care of at WorldCon. The
> grid is more of a high-level planning calendar indicating when major
> deadlines and responsibilities fall due.
>
> —
> Andy Trembley, Bull-in-Drag
> The Bovine Illuminati (It’s the Cows, Inc.)
> http://www.bovil.com/
> Moo!
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail

 

Group: runacc Message: 112 From: Cliff and Eileen Date: 5/7/2003
Subject: Various Points
The following are my replies/comments to various issues brought up on this
list over the last couple of days. My apologies for not quoting the
sources, but I am already losing track.

Volunteers

I was one of the people who found volunteering at CC21 very difficult. In
this case, the volunteer co-ordinators had assumed that the MD’s for each
show had already put their entire staff together and the co-ordinators were
therefore only looking for general gophers. I am guessing this assumption
was based on local traditions. I think it also put a strain on the
masquerade staff who were expecting the traditional walk-in volunteers to
make up their numbers. This would be a communication issue because it looks
like both sides made assumptions based on prior experience.

Volunteering is a difficult challenge for all conventions. At CC’s it is
especially difficult to get walk-in volunteers for non-masquerade related
jobs, because the masquerade is what our members are used to being
volunteers for at all other conventions. Therefore it helps to have some
labour-intensive departments (such as registration and security) work at
pre-recruiting staff. This would also help get the instructions to the
volunteers before they start doing their jobs.

Date

We, (CC19) chose the Memorial day weekend (which is not a holiday in Canada)
specifically because of weather considerations. We were trying to market
Calgary and the surrounding area as an interesting place to visit, and
Calgary in February looks a lot less attractive than May. (Well, maybe not
May this year.) Locally, there was no problem with the non-holiday, but we
did run into conflict problems with some of the U.S. conventions the same
weekend.

CC18 in Hartford was in a great downtown location, but because it was a
holiday weekend, everything was closed.

Hotel

I would suggest that future committees provide specific room layouts to the
hotel well before the con. We established what risers were available back
when we first signed our hotel contract. Layouts for every room for every
hour of the convention had to be initialed both by myself and a hotel
representative a week before the convention. This included maps we provided
to the hotel of the expected layout for both the stage and the Dealers’
room.

We also specified water in the rooms, although there was no issue over this.
I would recommend including it though. It is one of those little things
that is far more noticeable in its absence than its presence.

For those upcoming cons on this list that have not yet signed a hotel
contract, the clause that saved us the most was the one we had removed. The
hotel originally included a clause that would have required us to pay for
the rooms in our block booking that were not filled. This is the issue we
chose to fight over and the clause was removed from the contract we signed.
(Two years later the hotel was bought by a new chain who wanted us to sign a
new contract, siting the extra room charges we would be liable for as the
reason we should renegotiate. By being able to stick to our original
contract, we saved a lot of the additional costs the new contract would have
forced on us.)

Dining guide

This is an excellent suggestion about a small but incredibly useful detail.
In most cases attendees are in a completely unknown location, and many have
no access to vehicles. A restaurant guide covering what is available nearby
is so useful. (Henry provided something like one on the internet before
CC21, but I don’t remember seeing one available at con.)

Site selection

I strongly agree with this one. I wish I had argued more for some sort of
receipt. Since U.S.$ cheques are not an option for me, I voted with cash
and have nothing to prove it.

From the point of view of the CC receiving the money, multiple layered
receipts are incredibly useful. First, there are two written records of the
names of the people that have voted, the ballot and the receipt. Many
people can be very sloppy even printing their own name. Second, you have
the peace of mind knowing that if someone comes up to you and waves a
receipt saying that you have a financial obligation to them, you have an
exact copy of the same receipt in your records. The accountant in me always
wants the future auditor of my records to be able to follow a reasonable
audit trail. (An audit is required of all Alberta non-profit organizations
to keep that status, although it is not required that the auditor be a
professional or be paid a fee. Is this also a requirement of U.S.
non-profit status groups?)

Eileen Capes

 

Group: runacc Message: 113 From: Ricky & Karen Dick Date: 5/7/2003
Subject: Re: Various Points

Eileen–

Thanks for your insights.

At 12:13 AM 5/7/2003 -0600, you wrote:

>This would be a communication issue because it looks
>like both sides made assumptions based on prior experience.

CC-21 had communication issues overall, so this does not surprise me in the
least.

>Therefore it helps to have some
>labour-intensive departments (such as registration and security) work at
>pre-recruiting staff. This would also help get the instructions to the
>volunteers before they start doing their jobs.

I don’t think I’ve ever had volunteers working Reg, unless they were locals
and I knew them well.

Pre-recruitment in these departments is an *excellent* idea.

>Locally, there was no problem with the non-holiday, but we
>did run into conflict problems with some of the U.S. conventions the same
>weekend.

Again, we’re bound to conflict with something somewhere because there are
so many other events out there, especially because Costume-Con has the
Historical component (so there are more events to conflict with than just
S/F conventions).

>CC18 in Hartford was in a great downtown location, but because it was a
>holiday weekend, everything was closed.

Ditto other Costume-Cons. DItto other S/F cons. I was grateful that many
restaurants were open around the CC-21 hotel for at east part of the day on
Easter Sunday.

>Hotel

Very good suggestions here.

>Dining guide

I know many larger S/F cons (particularly WorldCon) supply this to their
members, and it *is* a very handy item.

>(Henry provided something like one on the internet before
>CC21, but I don’t remember seeing one available at con.)

Again, we can’t rely 100% on the Internet to supply information to members.

>Site selection
>
>I strongly agree with this one. I wish I had argued more for some sort of
>receipt. Since U.S.$ cheques are not an option for me, I voted with cash
>and have nothing to prove it.

Yikes. I hope this does not cause you problems down the road.

Betsy, is there language in the Site Selection process that specifies
giving receipts? If not, it is an oversight and needs to be be there.

When voting for Site Selection at many a WesterCon and WorldCon, there was
either a separate receipt, or a portion of the ballot that was removable
and became a receipt.

> From the point of view of the CC receiving the money, multiple layered
>receipts are incredibly useful.

And a simple receipt book that makes carbon copies (available at any office
supply store) would suffice for this job–no need to print fancy NCR forms.

–Karen

 

Group: runacc Message: 114 From: Sharon Date: 5/7/2003
Subject: Volunteers (was Various Points)
You’re right – there are some areas at a CC where the volunteers just
aren’t there so it will be CC staff, which may be needed elsewhere
depending on what else is going on.

Is it a possibility that this could be factored in, and some reward
(much like SF cons) be given to CC volunteers who volunteer for the
less glamorous work? Might have to strike a deal with other staff
members, like MDs, but this might get a larger pool of volunteers.

Although it’s sometimes nice to find the Con Chair working con reg,
it shouldn’t be something we expect to see for two solid days every
CC. I noticed this at a couple of earlier CCs.

Sharon

 

Group: runacc Message: 115 From: Martin Gear Date: 5/7/2003
Subject: Re: Various Points

Cliff and Eileen wrote:

>

<snip>>

> Volunteers
>
> I was one of the people who found volunteering at CC21 very difficult.

Bobby was going crazy in the Green Room for the F&SF Masquerade because
she couldn’t get Den Moms. There should be a volunteer sign-up sheet at
Registration possibly with jobs/events listed.

> Hotel
>
> I would suggest that future committees provide specific room layouts to the
> hotel well before the con. We established what risers were available back
> when we first signed our hotel contract. Layouts for every room for every
> hour of the convention had to be initialed both by myself and a hotel
> representative a week before the convention. This included maps we provided
> to the hotel of the expected layout for both the stage and the Dealers’
> room.

This is a MUST DO or you have no recourse if the hotel doesn’t provide
what was promised.

>
> For those upcoming cons on this list that have not yet signed a hotel
> contract, the clause that saved us the most was the one we had removed. The
> hotel originally included a clause that would have required us to pay for
> the rooms in our block booking that were not filled. This is the issue we
> chose to fight over and the clause was removed from the contract we signed.
> (Two years later the hotel was bought by a new chain who wanted us to sign a
> new contract, siting the extra room charges we would be liable for as the
> reason we should renegotiate. By being able to stick to our original
> contract, we saved a lot of the additional costs the new contract would have
> forced on us.)

Except for a few flagship hotels, it seems that major city hotels change
ownership on the average of once every 5 years. It is for this reason
that the hotel contract must be almost anally detailed. When the hotel
is sold, your contract is one of the assets that the new owners
purchased, but frequently they don’t look at it this way and try to find
ways to squeeze extra money from the group and make it more profitable
by cutting back on the services promised. Once the hotel contract is
signed, the hotel liaison’s job just begins. He/She should contact the
hotel’s SMERF (Social, Military, Educational, Religious, Fraternal)
group person on a regular basis, at least quarterly during the years
leading up to the con and monthly for the 12 months immediately prior to
the con to make certain that nothing has changed e.g. that the hotel
hasn’t decided to do major renovations the week of the con, and that the
key people are still in place.

^M^

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 

Group: runacc Message: 116 From: Ricky & Karen Dick Date: 5/7/2003
Subject: Fwd: Re: [ICG-D] Welcoming Newcomers

Toni Lay just posted this to the ICG-D list, and I thought it was worthy of
our attention.

There were an awful lot of newbies wandering around Thursday and Friday
night of CC-21, looking lost.

–Karen

>To: ICG-D@yahoogroups.com
>From: Ricky & Karen Dick <castleb@pulsenet.com>
>Subject: Re: [ICG-D] Welcoming Newcomers
>
>At 12:36 PM 5/7/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>>I think the Friday Night Social is the best time to pull newcomers into the
>>fold. Thought they may have been to SF or Anime cons, which have certain
>>”procedures” they’re familiar with, Costume Con may be totally uncertain to
>>them. I think a nice gesture would be to have a table, prominently situated
>>at the party with a sign and two or three CC veterans seated there, and
>>newcomers could come over and chat, find out things, get a feel for the con.
>>
>>I remember my first Friday Night Social at my first CC. It was CC 3. I got
>>all dressed up in a caftan I made and was rather proud of it. I actually
>>got the print matched up. I got to the door of the function room and
>>stopped. The costumes some people were wearing was gorgeous. I was so
>>embarrased at my simple caftan, I immediately turned around, went back to my
>>room and changed back into my jeans and t-shirt, and went back to the party.
>>I’d never seen costumes of that quality at any of the SF and Trek cons I’d
>>previously attended. Obviously, CCs operated on a higher plane.
>>
>>Toni
>>
>>—–Original Message—–
>>From: MicheleSol@aol.com [mailto:MicheleSol@aol.com]
>>Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 11:20 PM
>>To: ICG-D@yahoogroups.com
>>Subject: Re: [ICG-D] Digest Number 1080 sorry forgot question
>>
>>
>>After speaking with someone, I thought I’d ask, is there anything we can do
>>to help people new to CC’s to feel more included. So it’s not so
>>intimidating to be surrounded by “Costumers”. Maybe something for them in
>>terms of a panel etc? Get to know kind of thing?
>>
>>
>>Michele
>>
>>
>>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>>ICG-D-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>>
>>
>>
>>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>>
>>
>>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>>ICG-D-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>>
>>
>>
>>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

 

Group: runacc Message: 117 From: Andrew Trembley Date: 5/7/2003
Subject: Re: Various Points

On Tuesday, May 6, 2003, at 11:13 PM, Cliff and Eileen wrote:

> Volunteers
>
> I was one of the people who found volunteering at CC21 very difficult.
> In
> this case, the volunteer co-ordinators had assumed that the MD’s for
> each
> show had already put their entire staff together and the co-ordinators
> were
> therefore only looking for general gophers. I am guessing this
> assumption
> was based on local traditions. I think it also put a strain on the
> masquerade staff who were expecting the traditional walk-in volunteers
> to
> make up their numbers. This would be a communication issue because it
> looks
> like both sides made assumptions based on prior experience.

This is probably an accurate assessment.

> Volunteering is a difficult challenge for all conventions. At CC’s it
> is
> especially difficult to get walk-in volunteers for non-masquerade
> related
> jobs, because the masquerade is what our members are used to being
> volunteers for at all other conventions. Therefore it helps to have
> some
> labour-intensive departments (such as registration and security) work
> at
> pre-recruiting staff. This would also help get the instructions to the
> volunteers before they start doing their jobs.

I’m going to agree with pre-recruitment for non-masquerade related
jobs. Of course, I’m going to encourage people to pre-recruit for all
jobs if possible. Having worked Folsom Fringe, we’re kind of blessed
with the culture of volunteering that is such a big part of con fandom.
For Fringe, we had to pre-recruit all volunteers and offer major
incentives just to get them to sign up, because we knew we couldn’t
depend on at-conference volunteers for much of anything.

As an answer to both issues, I’m going to suggest that masquerade
registration and the volunteer desk be placed near each other. This
would help in the following ways:
1. Masquerade staffing is the largest portion of volunteer use. Having
the Masq directors and the Volunteer Coordinator near each other can
make it much easier on the Masquerade director, both in checking in
volunteers and adding jobs to the list that need to be filled. I know
that checking in volunteers was less of a priority for me at the Masq
desk than checking in entrants.
2. Henry made the point at the Build-a-CC panel that a master personnel
scheduler would have been really valuable to determine who is on duty
when. It’s also important in determining when people are available for
jobs in the first place. And finally, it’s important if the con should
choose to reward volunteers for their hours served.

Related to that, Masquerade registration desk is busy, and it need not
be near con registration. The two together can really cause a traffic
jam. This wasn’t a problem for me at CC21, but it might have been for
reg.

> Site selection
>
> I strongly agree with this one. I wish I had argued more for some
> sort of
> receipt. Since U.S.$ cheques are not an option for me, I voted with
> cash
> and have nothing to prove it.

I like the WorldCon ballot format, and would heartily recommend it. As
I remember, this is how it works:

Each ballot is three pieces (one page folded in thirds). Each piece has
a control number on it. The top piece has the voter’s contact
information. The middle piece has the ballot itself. The third piece is
the voter’s receipt.

At the first station, the cashier validates and pulls the top (contact)
portion, takes the cash, and initials the receipt. At the second
station, the poll worker validates the ballot, initials the receipt,
separates the portions and places the ballot in the ballot box. The
final portion is returned to the voter.

The ballots are counted, and I believe retained by the site selection
commissioner. The vote is validated and the contact forms and funds are
given to the winning committee. The winning committee never receives
the actual ballots, so they don’t know who voted for, against, or no
preference.

The voter can, at any point, confirm with either the site selection
commissioner or with the concom that they voted because both have
records that have the same control number as their receipt.

Control numbers can be pre-printed on the sheets, or (in the case of
CC, where it’s a small vote) written in or stamped on by the cashier.

If you would like the official way of handling this, I know the Site
Selection Commissioner from ConJose and ConAgerie (Westercon). I’m sure
he can fill in the information that’s not in the WSFS Constitution or
the LASFS Constitution.

andy


andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen
http://www.bovil.com/
“It’s not pink; it’s peach-colored. Pink is tacky.” –Manfred Pfirsich
Marie Rommel

 

Group: runacc Message: 118 From: henryosier@cs.com Date: 5/7/2003
Subject: Re: Shuttle rates
At CC21, I know that it was one of the things that was in our contract. They
told us that they had discontinued the airport shuttle service, but they did
that after it was in our contract.

Henry Osier

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 

Group: runacc Message: 119 From: henryosier@cs.com Date: 5/7/2003
Subject: Re: Volunteers (was Various Points)

In a message dated 5/7/2003 10:21:43 AM Central Daylight Time,
s_trembley@yahoo.com writes:

> Although it’s sometimes nice to find the Con Chair working con reg,
> it shouldn’t be something we expect to see for two solid days every
> CC.

Sharon,
I also did Pre-Reg, so logically, I should have done Reg at the Con.
I was too busy running around keeping an eye on everything.
Henry Osier

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 

Group: runacc Message: 120 From: Byron Connell Date: 5/7/2003
Subject: Re: Various Points

Karen —

At this point, I suggest that we include these ideas in the “CC Runners’ Guide” before you add any of them to the ConStitution. Let’s see which ones are appropriate for guidance and which ones have to be requirements. The danger is that you might make the ConStitution unwieldy.

Byron

—– Original Message —–
From: Ricky & Karen Dick
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2003 10:44 AM
Subject: Re: [runacc] Various Points

Eileen–

Thanks for your insights.

At 12:13 AM 5/7/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>This would be a communication issue because it looks
>like both sides made assumptions based on prior experience.

CC-21 had communication issues overall, so this does not surprise me in the
least.

>Therefore it helps to have some
>labour-intensive departments (such as registration and security) work at
>pre-recruiting staff. This would also help get the instructions to the
>volunteers before they start doing their jobs.

I don’t think I’ve ever had volunteers working Reg, unless they were locals
and I knew them well.

Pre-recruitment in these departments is an *excellent* idea.

>Locally, there was no problem with the non-holiday, but we
>did run into conflict problems with some of the U.S. conventions the same
>weekend.

Again, we’re bound to conflict with something somewhere because there are
so many other events out there, especially because Costume-Con has the
Historical component (so there are more events to conflict with than just
S/F conventions).

>CC18 in Hartford was in a great downtown location, but because it was a
>holiday weekend, everything was closed.

Ditto other Costume-Cons. DItto other S/F cons. I was grateful that many
restaurants were open around the CC-21 hotel for at east part of the day on
Easter Sunday.

>Hotel

Very good suggestions here.

>Dining guide

I know many larger S/F cons (particularly WorldCon) supply this to their
members, and it *is* a very handy item.

>(Henry provided something like one on the internet before
>CC21, but I don’t remember seeing one available at con.)

Again, we can’t rely 100% on the Internet to supply information to members.

>Site selection
>
>I strongly agree with this one. I wish I had argued more for some sort of
>receipt. Since U.S.$ cheques are not an option for me, I voted with cash
>and have nothing to prove it.

Yikes. I hope this does not cause you problems down the road.

Betsy, is there language in the Site Selection process that specifies
giving receipts? If not, it is an oversight and needs to be be there.

When voting for Site Selection at many a WesterCon and WorldCon, there was
either a separate receipt, or a portion of the ballot that was removable
and became a receipt.

> From the point of view of the CC receiving the money, multiple layered
>receipts are incredibly useful.

And a simple receipt book that makes carbon copies (available at any office
supply store) would suffice for this job–no need to print fancy NCR forms.

–Karen

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 

Group: runacc Message: 121 From: Byron Connell Date: 5/7/2003
Subject: Re: Various Points

Especially since the person in the SMERF position is likely to change a minimum of three times over the three years until the con.

Byron

—– Original Message —–
From: Martin Gear
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2003 11:36 AM
Subject: Re: [runacc] Various Points

Once the hotel contract is
signed, the hotel liaison’s job just begins. He/She should contact the
hotel’s SMERF (Social, Military, Educational, Religious, Fraternal)
group person on a regular basis, at least quarterly during the years
leading up to the con and monthly for the 12 months immediately prior to
the con to make certain that nothing has changed e.g. that the hotel
hasn’t decided to do major renovations the week of the con, and that the
key people are still in place.

^M^

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 

Group: runacc Message: 122 From: Byron Connell Date: 5/7/2003
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [ICG-D] Welcoming Newcomers

Tina and I were wandering around on Thursday, looking lost, until she left on the shopping tour. I still was wandering around, looking lost, after she was gone!

Aside from that, I agree that it is desirable for a CC to have people who will reach out to neos. Some other Costume-Cons have done that; some of it has been reported to have been successful.

Byron

—– Original Message —–
From: Ricky & Karen Dick
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2003 2:13 PM
Subject: [runacc] Fwd: Re: [ICG-D] Welcoming Newcomers

Toni Lay just posted this to the ICG-D list, and I thought it was worthy of
our attention.

There were an awful lot of newbies wandering around Thursday and Friday
night of CC-21, looking lost.

–Karen

>To: ICG-D@yahoogroups.com
>From: Ricky & Karen Dick <castleb@pulsenet.com>
>Subject: Re: [ICG-D] Welcoming Newcomers
>
>At 12:36 PM 5/7/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>>I think the Friday Night Social is the best time to pull newcomers into the
>>fold. Thought they may have been to SF or Anime cons, which have certain
>>”procedures” they’re familiar with, Costume Con may be totally uncertain to
>>them. I think a nice gesture would be to have a table, prominently situated
>>at the party with a sign and two or three CC veterans seated there, and
>>newcomers could come over and chat, find out things, get a feel for the con.
>>
>>I remember my first Friday Night Social at my first CC. It was CC 3. I got
>>all dressed up in a caftan I made and was rather proud of it. I actually
>>got the print matched up. I got to the door of the function room and
>>stopped. The costumes some people were wearing was gorgeous. I was so
>>embarrased at my simple caftan, I immediately turned around, went back to my
>>room and changed back into my jeans and t-shirt, and went back to the party.
>>I’d never seen costumes of that quality at any of the SF and Trek cons I’d
>>previously attended. Obviously, CCs operated on a higher plane.
>>
>>Toni
>>
>>—–Original Message—–
>>From: MicheleSol@aol.com [mailto:MicheleSol@aol.com]
>>Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 11:20 PM
>>To: ICG-D@yahoogroups.com
>>Subject: Re: [ICG-D] Digest Number 1080 sorry forgot question
>>
>>
>>After speaking with someone, I thought I’d ask, is there anything we can do
>>to help people new to CC’s to feel more included. So it’s not so
>>intimidating to be surrounded by “Costumers”. Maybe something for them in
>>terms of a panel etc? Get to know kind of thing?
>>
>>
>>Michele

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 

Group: runacc Message: 123 From: Byron Connell Date: 5/7/2003
Subject: Re: Volunteers

When I run a green room, I depend on members volunteering on-site. I don’t think I ever have had more than one pre-assigned green room volunteer. I post a volunteer sign-up sheet at masquerade registration (or con registration at a Costume-Con) and check it regularly (about every five minutes).

There is a Great Floating North American Masquerade Crew and I depend on it. Generally, they come through, not merely in numbers but in terms of volunteers who have worked green rooms several times before and are very familiar with several of the jobs. I don’t even have to brief some of them! As Janet Anderson pointed out years ago, master costumers who are not in the masquerade have an obligation to help run it. We’ve surprised many novices whose den moms were masters.

I would trust several of these people to take over the green room — or even all of back stage — at any con (although a few of them are in denial about their competence to do so) — the list has grown over the past several years, I’m delighted to say. I’m more than happy to provide references for them. This is one area where we have been fairly successful in recruiting new blood.

Sometimes the number of volunteers is sparse because so many costumers are in the masquerade. If necessary, the green room manager adapts to the number at hand, supplemented, if possible, by untrained gophers from the con’s general pool of volunteers. That may mean fewer and larger dens, for example, or doing without mother’s helpers, or doubling jobs up, but we can cope.

Byron

—– Original Message —–
From: Andrew Trembley
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2003 2:34 PM
Subject: Re: [runacc] Various Points

On Tuesday, May 6, 2003, at 11:13 PM, Cliff and Eileen wrote:
> Volunteers
>
> I was one of the people who found volunteering at CC21 very difficult.
> In
> this case, the volunteer co-ordinators had assumed that the MD’s for
> each
> show had already put their entire staff together and the co-ordinators
> were
> therefore only looking for general gophers. I am guessing this
> assumption
> was based on local traditions. I think it also put a strain on the
> masquerade staff who were expecting the traditional walk-in volunteers
> to
> make up their numbers. This would be a communication issue because it
> looks
> like both sides made assumptions based on prior experience.

This is probably an accurate assessment.

> Volunteering is a difficult challenge for all conventions. At CC’s it
> is
> especially difficult to get walk-in volunteers for non-masquerade
> related
> jobs, because the masquerade is what our members are used to being
> volunteers for at all other conventions. Therefore it helps to have
> some
> labour-intensive departments (such as registration and security) work
> at
> pre-recruiting staff. This would also help get the instructions to the
> volunteers before they start doing their jobs.

I’m going to agree with pre-recruitment for non-masquerade related
jobs. Of course, I’m going to encourage people to pre-recruit for all
jobs if possible. Having worked Folsom Fringe, we’re kind of blessed
with the culture of volunteering that is such a big part of con fandom.
For Fringe, we had to pre-recruit all volunteers and offer major
incentives just to get them to sign up, because we knew we couldn’t
depend on at-conference volunteers for much of anything.

As an answer to both issues, I’m going to suggest that masquerade
registration and the volunteer desk be placed near each other. This
would help in the following ways:
1. Masquerade staffing is the largest portion of volunteer use. Having
the Masq directors and the Volunteer Coordinator near each other can
make it much easier on the Masquerade director, both in checking in
volunteers and adding jobs to the list that need to be filled. I know
that checking in volunteers was less of a priority for me at the Masq
desk than checking in entrants.
2. Henry made the point at the Build-a-CC panel that a master personnel
scheduler would have been really valuable to determine who is on duty
when. It’s also important in determining when people are available for
jobs in the first place. And finally, it’s important if the con should
choose to reward volunteers for their hours served.

Related to that, Masquerade registration desk is busy, and it need not
be near con registration. The two together can really cause a traffic
jam. This wasn’t a problem for me at CC21, but it might have been for
reg.

andy

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 

Group: runacc Message: 124 From: Betsy Delaney Date: 5/7/2003
Subject: Re: Various Points

I agree with this statement for everything except the codification of
providing receipts for the Site Selection process. It is an oversight,
and needs to be corrected.

If you want, I’ll look into the existing language and make suggestions
for changes after I’m done with the web site overhaul. (I spent the
whole evening moving books and videos, and ripping up more carpet.)

Yuck.

Betsy

Byron Connell wrote:

>
> Karen —
>
> At this point, I suggest that we include these ideas in the “CC Runners’ Guide” before you add any of them to the ConStitution. Let’s see which ones are appropriate for guidance and which ones have to be requirements. The danger is that you might make the ConStitution unwieldy.
>
> Byron


Betsy R. Delaney
Web Mistress at large

************************************************************************
http://www.WebInvent.com/ * http://www.hawkeswood.com/
http://www.Costume-Con.org/ * http://www.sickpups.org/
http://www.SchoolWithoutWalls.org/
************************************************************************

 

Group: runacc Message: 125 From: Byron Connell Date: 5/7/2003
Subject: Re: Volunteers (was Various Points)
Henry —

No, you shouldn’t. There should have been someone — other than a co-chair — assigned to be in charge of registration. The co-chair should either (1) float and handle problems, as you did, or (2) stand around and look elegant.

This is part of the reason CC21 had too small a con-com, as I have mentioned already.

Byron

—- Original Message —–
From: henryosier@cs.com
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2003 4:00 PM
Subject: Re: [runacc] Volunteers (was Various Points)

I also did Pre-Reg, so logically, I should have done Reg at the Con.
I was too busy running around keeping an eye on everything.
Henry Osier

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 

Group: runacc Message: 126 From: Ricky & Karen Dick Date: 5/7/2003
Subject: Re: Various Points

I want the receipts codified in the ConStitution. That’s the only thing
we’ve been discussing that I want there vs. in the Guide at the moment, as
giving receipts should be part of the process, and if it hasn’t been
spelled out, it should be.

–Karen

At 10:48 PM 5/7/2003 -0400, you wrote:

>I agree with this statement for everything except the codification of
>providing receipts for the Site Selection process. It is an oversight,
>and needs to be corrected.
>
>If you want, I’ll look into the existing language and make suggestions
>for changes after I’m done with the web site overhaul. (I spent the
>whole evening moving books and videos, and ripping up more carpet.)
>
>Yuck.
>
>Betsy
>
>Byron Connell wrote:
> >
> > Karen —
> >
> > At this point, I suggest that we include these ideas in the “CC
> Runners’ Guide” before you add any of them to the ConStitution. Let’s
> see which ones are appropriate for guidance and which ones have to be
> requirements. The danger is that you might make the ConStitution unwieldy.
> >
> > Byron
>
>–
>Betsy R. Delaney
>Web Mistress at large
>
>************************************************************************
> http://www.WebInvent.com/ * http://www.hawkeswood.com/
> http://www.Costume-Con.org/ * http://www.sickpups.org/
> http://www.SchoolWithoutWalls.org/
>************************************************************************
>
>
>View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>runacc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

 

Group: runacc Message: 127 From: Ricky & Karen Dick Date: 5/7/2003
Subject: Re: Volunteers (was Various Points)

First Rule of being Con Chair: Delegate, delegate, delegate!

Of course, you have to *have* Division Heads to delegate to…

Too few people wearing too many hats doth not a happy concom make.

–Karen

At 11:18 PM 5/7/2003 -0400, you wrote:

>Henry —
>
>No, you shouldn’t. There should have been someone — other than a
>co-chair — assigned to be in charge of registration. The co-chair should
>either (1) float and handle problems, as you did, or (2) stand around and
>look elegant.
>
>This is part of the reason CC21 had too small a con-com, as I have
>mentioned already.
>
>Byron
>
>
>
>—- Original Message —–
> From: henryosier@cs.com
> To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2003 4:00 PM
> Subject: Re: [runacc] Volunteers (was Various Points)
>
>
> I also did Pre-Reg, so logically, I should have done Reg at the Con.
> I was too busy running around keeping an eye on everything.
> Henry Osier
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>runacc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

 

Group: runacc Message: 128 From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger Date: 5/8/2003
Subject: Re: Date ideas

Every CC but one that was in February had weather/travel issues for us, and
it didn’t matter if we drove or flew. CC 6 and 8 we drove – had to detour
for snow both times. CC 9, 11, 12 our flights were messed up by weather
somewhere. CC18 we didn’t have weather issues, but there were food issues
(hotel restaurant not available because of Valentine’s day, nothing else
w/n walking distance but one Chinese place, which was also closed for
Chinese New Year).

P & S

>I clearly
>remember the President’s Day weekend snows messing up several cons due to
>travel conditions.
>
>Elaine

“Those Who Fail To Learn History
Are Doomed To Repeat It;
Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly–
Why They Are Simply Doomed.”

Achemdro’hm
“The Illusion of Historical Fact”
— C.Y. 4971

Andromeda

 

Group: runacc Message: 129 From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger Date: 5/8/2003
Subject: Re: Date ideas

Wrong year – not CC 18, but CC 17 (Philly/NJ).

P & S

At 10:53 PM 5/6/2003, you wrote:

>Every CC but one that was in February had weather/travel issues for us, and
>it didn’t matter if we drove or flew. CC 6 and 8 we drove – had to detour
>for snow both times. CC 9, 11, 12 our flights were messed up by weather
>somewhere. CC18 we didn’t have weather issues, but there were food issues
>(hotel restaurant not available because of Valentine’s day, nothing else
>w/n walking distance but one Chinese place, which was also closed for
>Chinese New Year).
>
>P & S

“Those Who Fail To Learn History
Are Doomed To Repeat It;
Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly–
Why They Are Simply Doomed.”

Achemdro’hm
“The Illusion of Historical Fact”
— C.Y. 4971

Andromeda

 

Group: runacc Message: 130 From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger Date: 5/8/2003
Subject: Re: Volunteers (registration specifically)

For CC10, I think our con-com was 6 people, two of which were us. We did
hotel liaison, publications (because we were the only ones with a
computer), quartermaster, con chairs, etc., etc.

What saved our behinds at con reg was the Lincoln Convention and Visitors
Bureau. They provided the badges and badge holders at no charge, and 2-3
volunteers to run the registration desk every day of the con. Mostly they
were retired ladies and they had (AFAWK) a good time. We let them attend
whatever evening events they wanted as a reward. CVB also provided coupons,
maps, etc. I think this is a sometimes unexplored resource.

P & S

> > Although it’s sometimes nice to find the Con Chair working con reg,
> > it shouldn’t be something we expect to see for two solid days every
> > CC.
>Sharon,
> I also did Pre-Reg, so logically, I should have done Reg at the
> Con.
>I was too busy running around keeping an eye on everything.
>Henry Osier

“Those Who Fail To Learn History
Are Doomed To Repeat It;
Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly–
Why They Are Simply Doomed.”

Achemdro’hm
“The Illusion of Historical Fact”
— C.Y. 4971

Andromeda

 

Group: runacc Message: 131 From: Ricky & Karen Dick Date: 5/8/2003
Subject: Re: Volunteers (registration specifically)

Another largely unexploited resource is the mundane or non-costuming
fannish friends of the concom. Most of ’em would be happy to work a shift
at the Registration table in exchange for free admission to the
masquerades, etc. in the evening.

I don’t think CC is large enough to absorb crash space for volunteers
(although the San Diego Comic-Con did when it was at the 500-1,000 person
size), but maybe there are other “perks” we can offer–special
volunteer-only t-shirts or other goodies.

–Karen

At 01:03 AM 5/8/2003 -0500, you wrote:

>What saved our behinds at con reg was the Lincoln Convention and Visitors
>Bureau. They provided the badges and badge holders at no charge, and 2-3
>volunteers to run the registration desk every day of the con. Mostly they
>were retired ladies and they had (AFAWK) a good time. We let them attend
>whatever evening events they wanted as a reward. CVB also provided coupons,
>maps, etc. I think this is a sometimes unexplored resource.
>
>P & S

 

Group: runacc Message: 132 From: Betsy Delaney Date: 5/8/2003
Subject: Re: Volunteers (registration specifically)

We did just this at CCXV. My friend Laurie was willing to work the
registration table, which was good because our pre-con registrar wanted
to be able to go play. So, when they arrived at the con, they brought
pre-printed badge stock, blank stock for at-con registrants, printed
lists of members and what everyone had paid, and Laurie took over at
that point. I have faith in her ability to manage money. She’s currently
my company bookkeeper (as well as a very good friend). We took in over
$3000 in cash that weekend, so having someone reliable was very
important.

We only had one incident where money did not appear to be collected, in
all the at-door collection, and that appeared to be a treasurer problem.
Laurie was just fine with not going to panels since her only interest
was in the masquerades.

We did a very heavy recruiting job for volunteers and offered pubs to
people who worked more than a certain number of hours for the whole
weekend. Our security detail was offered crash space inside the dealer
room area. The upper floor, where displays and meeting rooms were
located, was locked off at night at the elevator.

The main thing is, if you’re going to recruit from outside the
community, you have to be willing to provide some gimmes, and some are
cheaper than others.

Betsy

Ricky & Karen Dick wrote:

>
> Another largely unexploited resource is the mundane or non-costuming
> fannish friends of the concom. Most of ’em would be happy to work a shift
> at the Registration table in exchange for free admission to the
> masquerades, etc. in the evening.
>
> I don’t think CC is large enough to absorb crash space for volunteers
> (although the San Diego Comic-Con did when it was at the 500-1,000 person
> size), but maybe there are other “perks” we can offer–special
> volunteer-only t-shirts or other goodies.
>
> –Karen


Betsy R. Delaney
Web Mistress at large

************************************************************************
http://www.WebInvent.com/ * http://www.hawkeswood.com/
http://www.Costume-Con.org/ * http://www.sickpups.org/
http://www.SchoolWithoutWalls.org/
************************************************************************

 

Group: runacc Message: 133 From: Andrew Trembley Date: 5/8/2003
Subject: Restaurants, Valentines and CC17 (was Re: Date ideas)

On Tuesday, May 6, 2003, at 08:53 PM, Pierre & Sandy Pettinger wrote:

> CC18 we didn’t have weather issues, but there were food issues
> (hotel restaurant not available because of Valentine’s day, nothing
> else
> w/n walking distance but one Chinese place, which was also closed for
> Chinese New Year).

I see you already caught yourself on the #.

Yeah, that was a hotel from hell from the members’ point of view. Not
only were there no restaurants within walking distance, but there were
also no sidewalks. I expect that for those of us working, the Skokie
Doubletree was worse, but what it did have was good and plentiful food
on-site and near off-site.

What was supposed to happen CC17 weekend was the basketball All-Star
game in Philadelphia. What happened instead was the basketball strike.
Hotel nights suddenly became available and the Philly area Chamber of
Commerce (I think, it might have been the CVB or some other group)
decided to market the crap out of hotels and hotel restaurants for
Valentines Day to make up for the loss.

Gets back to the restaurant service clause (and liquidated damages).
Either the hotel contract or the secondary agreement has to include
restaurant service requirements, and if the restaurant is operated
independently has to be signed by a representative of the restaurant.

Offsite food is a serious consideration, though.

One of the hotels we’re considering for CC26 is the San Jose
Doubletree. Great function space (two 9.000 sq.ft. ballrooms, one with
17′ ceilings), plentiful parking, and a great deal of con experience.
The downside is there are few off-site restaurants within walking
distance. The nearest are 3-5 blocks away, and that’s a Coco’s, a
Denny’s, a McDonald’s and the two restaurants at the SJ Hyatt (about 6
blocks away). On-site food isn’t spectacular, but both the quality and
service has been getting better over the last few years.

We’re also considering the Santa Clara Mariott (where CC12 was) because
it’s also got plentiful function space (11,000 sq.ft. California
Ballroom) and parking, and because it’s near Mission College and the
Mercado Mall (which means plentiful food). The classy on-site
restaurant is fabulous, and the sports-bar restaurant is decent. What
it doesn’t have is a nearly 20 year history of hosting conventions.

andy


andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen
http://www.irlm.org/ – mailto:webmaster@irlm.org
“Anybody who takes this seriously deserves to”
— Donna Barr

 

Group: runacc Message: 134 From: Bruce & Nora Mai Date: 5/8/2003
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [ICG-D] Welcoming Newcomers

> Tina and I were wandering around on Thursday, looking lost, until she left

on the shopping tour. I still was wandering around, looking lost, after she
was gone!

>
> Aside from that, I agree that it is desirable for a CC to have people who

will reach out to neos. Some other Costume-Cons have done that; some of it
has been reported to have been successful.

> Byron

There should be a welcoming or information point for <everyone> not just the
newbies. The location of whcih should be published in the last PR. I know
that a lot of people may spend their Thursday night sewing in their rooms
but having the registration packet or at least a pocket program at hand
let’s them plan ahead.

What neo-friendly ploys have people tried in the past? What worked?

Nora

 

Group: runacc Message: 135 From: Charles Galway Date: 5/8/2003
Subject: Re: Restaurants, Valentines and CC17 (was Re: Date ideas)
Andy, We have set our con in a no-history-of-fan-cons hotel. While it would help to have that history, it’s not essential. But it’s important that they at least get an idea of what’s coming up, and are accepting of that. (The still won’t REALLY know.)

I have also noticed a lot of cons here that I spend a year or two talking to sales mangagers, and then all I see on the week-end are banquet and set-up staff. And usually the have been told to be helpful. (even if they weren’t given wholly accurate directions for set-up.)

Setting up the masquerade in the hotel would require good cooperation with the hotel.
Usually you can tell how stuffy a hotel is after talking to them for awhile.

(Oh, but ask me again in two years, if what I’ve said needs to be modified.)
Charles

—–Original Message—–
From: Andrew Trembley <attrembl@bovil.com>

<snip> What it doesn’t have is a nearly 20 year history of hosting conventions.

andy

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 

Group: runacc Message: 136 From: Kevin Roche Date: 5/8/2003
Subject: Re: Restaurants, Valentines and CC17 (was Re: Date ideas)

>What it doesn’t have is a nearly 20 year history of hosting conventions.

It was however, the hotel at which we held CC 12.

As I recall, the one really big facilities problem (I’m sure there were
assorted little ones) we had was that their electrical engineer/electrician
had a heart attack, and his backup was out of town and unreachable.

So there was a bunch of the concom along with the hotel management, staring
at the hookup panel where the ballroom electrical had to be connected for
the lights, sound etc, and there was *NO ONE* on the hotel staff qualified
and authorized to do so.

Suddenly the Goodrich Blimp floated down a nearby hallway, and when everyone
came back to the ballroom, the connections had magically appeared. (and of
course, since no one on the staff was authorized to touch the panel, no one
could disconnect them either).

So add “Making sure the hotel has backup staff plans for engineering” to our
to-do list for running a CC.

Kevin

 

Group: runacc Message: 137 From: Betsy Delaney Date: 5/8/2003
Subject: Handling explanations of what’s going on/welcoming newbies

We lifted an idea from local LARPs and provided a “What’s Going On
Here?” sheet, cheerfully distributed throughout the hotel and at the
front desk. Anyone who happened on the paper could read about why people
in costume were wandering around at the hotel all weekend.

We also held a “What’s going on this weekend” panel each morning of the
three main days (Friday, Saturday and Sunday). We got the hotel early
enough Friday to start programming near to 10am, and did just that, but
I think the Friday panel occurred around mid afternoon. I could be wrong
– I’d have to look at the actual program (and the box is still
upstairs).

Finally, we designated several people as “ambassadors” who were told to
watch out for unfamiliar faces at various times and make conversation. I
know I did that a little this year on Friday night, but I was so
distracted waiting for Dan and Erin to arrive (which they did,
eventually, very late), I wasn’t much fun to talk to even with the
people I already know.

I think in general the outreach was well received. YMMV.

Cheers,

Betsy

Charles Galway wrote:

>
> Andy, We have set our con in a no-history-of-fan-cons hotel. While it would help to have that history, it’s not essential. But it’s important that they at least get an idea of what’s coming up, and are accepting of that. (The still won’t REALLY know.)
>
> I have also noticed a lot of cons here that I spend a year or two talking to sales mangagers, and then all I see on the week-end are banquet and set-up staff. And usually the have been told to be helpful. (even if they weren’t given wholly accurate directions for set-up.)
>
> Setting up the masquerade in the hotel would require good cooperation with the hotel.
> Usually you can tell how stuffy a hotel is after talking to them for awhile.
>
> (Oh, but ask me again in two years, if what I’ve said needs to be modified.)
> Charles


Betsy R. Delaney
Web Mistress at large

************************************************************************
http://www.WebInvent.com/ * http://www.hawkeswood.com/
http://www.Costume-Con.org/ * http://www.sickpups.org/
http://www.SchoolWithoutWalls.org/
************************************************************************

 

Group: runacc Message: 138 From: Andrew Trembley Date: 5/8/2003
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [ICG-D] Welcoming Newcomers

On Thursday, May 8, 2003, at 04:46 AM, Bruce & Nora Mai wrote:

> What neo-friendly ploys have people tried in the past? What worked?

well, there’s the one you guys tried at CC16 😉

Having the consuite open on Thursday night, and having that information
prominently posted was really nice. While I came with a major caravan
and knew a few other people, the vast majority of folks at the con I
hadn’t ever met before.

The extremely silly social theme was also very non-threatening.


andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen
http://www.irlm.org/ – mailto:webmaster@irlm.org
“Anybody who takes this seriously deserves to”
— Donna Barr

 

Group: runacc Message: 139 From: Andrew Trembley Date: 5/8/2003
Subject: Re: Restaurants, Valentines and CC17 (was Re: Date ideas)

On Thursday, May 8, 2003, at 03:38 PM, Charles Galway wrote:

> Andy, We have set our con in a no-history-of-fan-cons hotel. While
> it would help to have that history, it’s not essential. But it’s
> important that they at least get an idea of what’s coming up, and are
> accepting of that. (The still won’t REALLY know.)

The thing is that we have a contender that does have a huge history of
hosting conventions, and that’s a big pro in it’s column.

> I have also noticed a lot of cons here that I spend a year or two
> talking to sales managers, and then all I see on the week-end are
> banquet and set-up staff. And usually the have been told to be
> helpful. (even if they weren’t given wholly accurate directions for
> set-up.)

Sales will often sell you the sky and leave both you and the hotel
operations people screwed when the time comes. This is why the WorldCon
runner’s guide suggests that you include in your hotel contract (or
secondary agreement) a clause that says your sales representative will
be staying onsite at the hotel during the convention.

It’s also worth it to request that banquet management is available
during at least some of the meetings you have with the hotel
(particularly when working out set-up details). It’s really worth it to
ask that the managers who will be on duty during your weekend be
present in the last few meetings with the hotel leading up to the con.


andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen – http://www.bovil.com/
San Jose, CA – ’72 R75/5 ’86 R100 (mine) – ’92 K75sa ’03 R1150R
(Kevin’s)
“It’s not pink, it’s peach-colored. Pink is tacky.”
–Manfred Pfirsich Marie Rommel

2nd most important safety device on my bike: the one beneath my right
hand
Most important safety device on my bike: the one inside my helmet

 

Group: runacc Message: 140 From: Kevin Roche Date: 5/8/2003
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [ICG-D] Welcoming Newcomers

> > What neo-friendly ploys have people tried in the past? What worked?
>
> well, there’s the one you guys tried at CC16 😉

For those of you who don’t know this, Andy and I met at the Thursday night
hospitality suite at CC16.

So it very definitely worked.

Kevin

 

Group: runacc Message: 141 From: Bruce & Nora Mai Date: 5/8/2003
Subject: Re: CC23
We just recently looked at the website and the maps, etc. Unless I missed
something, is the hotel 2 blocks from the theatre where the masqs will be?

Bruce

 

Group: runacc Message: 142 From: Charles Galway Date: 5/8/2003
Subject: Re: Hotel staff (and a electrical power story) was Restaurants, Val
I agree about trying to have both sales and set-up staff at a pre-event meeting.
I have also seen sales attempt to say yes to things they shouldn’t. They appear to come from a school that says “don’t say no to a customer”. But when it comes down to it, they might have to require so many extra fees, or some other problems, that the effective answer really should have been “no”. It helps to have experience, and a “sixth sense” what the hotel will be comfortable with.

An interesting situation about power at a con masquerade. One hotel had a big roll-out step-down transformer. Just plug it in the wall, and you get lots of twenty amp circuits. Just plug it in… It took about ten or twenty minutes for me to file off the high spots, in order to get it fully seated. (And the minimal set-up time clock was tickinig.) Be careful what you take for granted. The next year it had been replaced, and I double-checked it before the con.

Charles

—–Original Message—–
From: Andrew Trembley <attrembl@bovil.com>

<snip>

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 

Group: runacc Message: 143 From: Andrew Trembley Date: 5/8/2003
Subject: Re: Hotel staff

On Thursday, May 8, 2003, at 04:51 PM, Charles Galway wrote:

> I agree about trying to have both sales and set-up staff at a
> pre-event meeting.
> I have also seen sales attempt to say yes to things they shouldn’t.
> They appear to come from a school that says “don’t say no to a
> customer”.

There is a variety of salescritter often found working in hotel sales
who will say anything to get the sale. This is followed up by, as you
mentioned, extra fees, trying to weasel out of the agreement, or just
dumping things on hotel operations. It’s not too unusual at a hotel to
find that the other departments hate the sales staff. Kyym (CC21’s
dealer coordinator) works in hotel operations and we had this
discussion over drinks at some point during the con.

Something that would be helpful I think would be a list of industry
standards and practices; i.e. what’s normally included gratis in the
costs of the hotel contract, what normally costs extra and price ranges.

With knowledge of industry standards and practices, it’s easier to go
in and press the sales person for costs and get them in the contract.
For example, if the contract says “risers to make the stage as
described in the secondary agreement included” then you can either
extort them into buying additional or new risers, or invoke the
liquidated damages clause and reduce your overall cost.


andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen – http://www.bovil.com/
San Jose, CA – ’72 R75/5 ’86 R100 (mine) – ’92 K75sa ’03 R1150R
(Kevin’s)
“It’s not pink, it’s peach-colored. Pink is tacky.”
–Manfred Pfirsich Marie Rommel

2nd most important safety device on my bike: the one beneath my right
hand
Most important safety device on my bike: the one inside my helmet

 

Group: runacc Message: 144 From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger Date: 5/9/2003
Subject: Re: Restaurants, Valentines and CC17 (was Re: Date ideas)

3-5 blocks isn’t walking distance, at least for me. 3 maybe, 5 definitely
not, especially with the time crunch we usually have for meals at CC.
Sandy

>One of the hotels we’re considering for CC26 is the San Jose
>Doubletree. Great function space (two 9.000 sq.ft. ballrooms, one with
>17′ ceilings), plentiful parking, and a great deal of con experience.
>The downside is there are few off-site restaurants within walking
>distance. The nearest are 3-5 blocks away, and that’s a Coco’s, a
>Denny’s, a McDonald’s and the two restaurants at the SJ Hyatt (about 6
>blocks away). On-site food isn’t spectacular, but both the quality and
>service has been getting better over the last few years.
>
>andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen

“Those Who Fail To Learn History
Are Doomed To Repeat It;
Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly–
Why They Are Simply Doomed.”

Achemdro’hm
“The Illusion of Historical Fact”
— C.Y. 4971

Andromeda

 

Group: runacc Message: 145 From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger Date: 5/9/2003
Subject: Re: Restaurants, Valentines and CC17 (was Re: Date ideas)

Seems to me this wasn’t the first time we’ve “hot-wired” a hotel for a
CC. CC’s 6 and 8 come to mind also.

P & S

>As I recall, the one really big facilities problem (I’m sure there were
>assorted little ones) we had was that their electrical engineer/electrician
>had a heart attack, and his backup was out of town and unreachable.
>
>So there was a bunch of the concom along with the hotel management, staring
>at the hookup panel where the ballroom electrical had to be connected for
>the lights, sound etc, and there was *NO ONE* on the hotel staff qualified
>and authorized to do so.
>
>Suddenly the Goodrich Blimp floated down a nearby hallway, and when everyone
>came back to the ballroom, the connections had magically appeared. (and of
>course, since no one on the staff was authorized to touch the panel, no one
>could disconnect them either).
>
>So add “Making sure the hotel has backup staff plans for engineering” to our
>to-do list for running a CC.
>
>Kevin

“Those Who Fail To Learn History
Are Doomed To Repeat It;
Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly–
Why They Are Simply Doomed.”

Achemdro’hm
“The Illusion of Historical Fact”
— C.Y. 4971

Andromeda

 

Group: runacc Message: 146 From: Ricky & Karen Dick Date: 5/9/2003
Subject: Re: Restaurants, Valentines and CC17 (was Re: Date ideas)

At 10:59 PM 5/8/2003 -0500, you wrote:

>Seems to me this wasn’t the first time we’ve “hot-wired” a hotel for a
>CC. CC’s 6 and 8 come to mind also.
>
>P & S

Yupper. CC-6’s was pretty scary. DIdn’t know CC-8 had a similar problem.

–Karen

 

Group: runacc Message: 147 From: Charles Galway Date: 5/9/2003
Subject: Re: Theater location Re: CC23
Correct, but misleading. Those are considered half blocks.
http://www.marriott.com/dpp/map.asp?MarshaCode=SLCOG (for those that want to see the map)
The Ogden Marriott (con hotel) is in the middle of one block, along 24th Street. Head East from the hotel, cross one street, walk that half block, cross another street, and you are at the back door area of the Perry Egyptian Theater (and David Eccles Conference Center). (This Theater is along Highway 89 on the web-map, also called Washington Blvd.) It’s about a five minute walk from the Marriott.

While the transit is inconvient for rehearsals, and the evening shows, we thought it was worthwhile, due to the excellent facilities of the site. Tiered seating, stage lights, proscenium, good sound, great green room (big mirror, etc). The cost was reasonable compared to the cost and set-up of a hotel ballroom.

When we first bid for CC-21, we had not included the Theater, just the Ogden Marriott. Some costumers saw our bid materials, and suggested the the Egyptian Theater would be a good masquerade site. After thouroughly checking it out, it does seem to be a good idea, so we included it in our later bid materials (now CC-23)

It is close enough to walk, for a person, or a person with modest costuming, from the Marriott Hotel. For larger costumes, and other transit needs, we will need to supply a good transportation system.

To add to the considerations, a hotel (Ogden Plaza — sleeping room hotel) is now on the same block as the Theater, and even the David Eccles Conference Center. The Plaza Hotel was not available a few years ago, and the Coference center appeared to be too expensive.

I would be glad to hear additional comments on this issue. I’m sure that similar things have been tried with World-Con. I agree that this is an important point to work on, and I feel good about much of the rest of our site selection.
Charles CC-23

—–Original Message—–
From: Bruce & Nora Mai <casamai@sbcglobal.net>

We just recently looked at the website and the maps, etc. Unless I missed
something, is the hotel 2 blocks from the theatre where the masqs will be?

Bruce

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Group: runacc Message: 148 From: Charles Galway Date: 5/9/2003
Subject: Re: Quick adjustment in lighting, was Restaurants, Valentines

It does remind me of the art show one time at a CONduit. No switch on the wall for that room, just some bare wires — and it’s getting on to later Friday afternoon…
Somehow a wire nut found it’s way onto those wires.
Charles

—–Original Message—–
From: Ricky & Karen Dick <castleb@pulsenet.com>

At 10:59 PM 5/8/2003 -0500, you wrote:

>Seems to me this wasn’t the first time we’ve “hot-wired” a hotel for a
>CC. CC’s 6 and 8 come to mind also.
>
>P & S

Yupper. CC-6’s was pretty scary. DIdn’t know CC-8 had a similar problem.

–Karen

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 

Group: runacc Message: 149 From: Elaine Mami Date: 5/9/2003
Subject: Re: Theater location Re: CC23

It beats all hell out of the commute at NoLaCon! And the schlep through the
heat at Magicon couldn’t have been much fun, either.

Elaine

> Correct, but misleading. Those are considered half blocks.
> http://www.marriott.com/dpp/map.asp?MarshaCode=SLCOG (for those that want

to see the map)

> The Ogden Marriott (con hotel) is in the middle of one block, along 24th

Street. Head East from the hotel, cross one street, walk that half block,
cross another street, and you are at the back door area of the Perry
Egyptian Theater (and David Eccles Conference Center). (This Theater is
along Highway 89 on the web-map, also called Washington Blvd.) It’s about a
five minute walk from the Marriott.

>
> While the transit is inconvient for rehearsals, and the evening shows, we

thought it was worthwhile, due to the excellent facilities of the site.
Tiered seating, stage lights, proscenium, good sound, great green room (big
mirror, etc). The cost was reasonable compared to the cost and set-up of a
hotel ballroom.

>

 

Group: runacc Message: 150 From: Ricky & Karen Dick Date: 5/9/2003
Subject: Re: Theater location Re: CC23

Having schlepped in costume on foot at Denvention, NolaCon, and MagiCon,
the distance from the hotel to the Egyptian Theatre does not seem
outrageous for what looks like a VERY “worth it” venue.

–Karen

At 03:16 PM 5/9/2003 -0400, you wrote:

>It beats all hell out of the commute at NoLaCon! And the schlep through the
>heat at Magicon couldn’t have been much fun, either.
>
>Elaine
>
> > Correct, but misleading. Those are considered half blocks.
> > http://www.marriott.com/dpp/map.asp?MarshaCode=SLCOG (for those that want
>to see the map)
> > The Ogden Marriott (con hotel) is in the middle of one block, along 24th
>Street. Head East from the hotel, cross one street, walk that half block,
>cross another street, and you are at the back door area of the Perry
>Egyptian Theater (and David Eccles Conference Center). (This Theater is
>along Highway 89 on the web-map, also called Washington Blvd.) It’s about a
>five minute walk from the Marriott.
> >
> > While the transit is inconvient for rehearsals, and the evening shows, we
>thought it was worthwhile, due to the excellent facilities of the site.
>Tiered seating, stage lights, proscenium, good sound, great green room (big
>mirror, etc). The cost was reasonable compared to the cost and set-up of a
>hotel ballroom.
> >
>
>
>
>View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>runacc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

 

Yahoo Archive: Page 2 of 67

 

Messages in runacc group. Page 2 of 67.

Group: runacc Message: 51 From: Betsy Delaney Date: 5/4/2003
Subject: Re: CC21 Review – Part III
Group: runacc Message: 52 From: henryosier@cs.com Date: 5/4/2003
Subject: Re: CC21 Review – Parts 1,2, & 3
Group: runacc Message: 53 From: Elaine Mami Date: 5/4/2003
Subject: Re: CC21 Review – Part III
Group: runacc Message: 54 From: Martin Gear Date: 5/4/2003
Subject: Re: CC21 Review – Part III
Group: runacc Message: 55 From: Betsy Delaney Date: 5/4/2003
Subject: Re: CC21 Review – Part III
Group: runacc Message: 56 From: Byron Connell Date: 5/4/2003
Subject: Re: CC21 Review – Part III
Group: runacc Message: 57 From: Karen Heim Date: 5/4/2003
Subject: Re: CC21 Review – Part III
Group: runacc Message: 58 From: Andrew Trembley Date: 5/4/2003
Subject: Date ideas (was Re: [runacc] CC21 Review – Part III)
Group: runacc Message: 59 From: Ricky & Karen Dick Date: 5/4/2003
Subject: Re: CC21 Review
Group: runacc Message: 60 From: Elaine Mami Date: 5/4/2003
Subject: Re: Date ideas
Group: runacc Message: 61 From: Betsy Delaney Date: 5/4/2003
Subject: Re: Date ideas
Group: runacc Message: 62 From: Bruce & Nora Mai Date: 5/4/2003
Subject: Re: Date ideas
Group: runacc Message: 63 From: Elaine Mami Date: 5/4/2003
Subject: Re: Date ideas
Group: runacc Message: 64 From: Bruce & Nora Mai Date: 5/4/2003
Subject: Re: Date ideas
Group: runacc Message: 65 From: Ricky & Karen Dick Date: 5/5/2003
Subject: Re: Date ideas
Group: runacc Message: 66 From: Charles Galway Date: 5/5/2003
Subject: Re: CC21 Review – Part III
Group: runacc Message: 67 From: Charles Galway Date: 5/5/2003
Subject: Re: Date ideas (was Re: [runacc] CC21 Review – Part III)
Group: runacc Message: 68 From: Charles Galway Date: 5/5/2003
Subject: Re: CC21 Review
Group: runacc Message: 69 From: Christine Connell Date: 5/5/2003
Subject: Receipts for memberships
Group: runacc Message: 70 From: Betsy Delaney Date: 5/5/2003
Subject: Re: Receipts for memberships/Site Selection Process
Group: runacc Message: 71 From: Betsy Delaney Date: 5/5/2003
Subject: Re: Date ideas
Group: runacc Message: 72 From: henryosier@cs.com Date: 5/5/2003
Subject: Re: CC21 Review – Part III
Group: runacc Message: 73 From: Sharon Date: 5/5/2003
Subject: Holiday Weekends (was CC21 Review – Part III)
Group: runacc Message: 74 From: Trudy Leonard Date: 5/5/2003
Subject: Re: Date ideas (was Re: [runacc] CC21 Review – Part III)
Group: runacc Message: 75 From: henryosier@cs.com Date: 5/5/2003
Subject: Re: CC Dates
Group: runacc Message: 76 From: Trudy Leonard Date: 5/5/2003
Subject: Re: CC21 Review
Group: runacc Message: 77 From: henryosier@cs.com Date: 5/5/2003
Subject: Re: CC21 Review
Group: runacc Message: 78 From: Martin Gear Date: 5/5/2003
Subject: Re: Date ideas
Group: runacc Message: 79 From: Ricky & Karen Dick Date: 5/5/2003
Subject: Re: Date ideas
Group: runacc Message: 80 From: Ricky & Karen Dick Date: 5/5/2003
Subject: Re: Holiday Weekends (was CC21 Review – Part III)
Group: runacc Message: 81 From: Betsy Delaney Date: 5/5/2003
Subject: Re: Date ideas
Group: runacc Message: 82 From: Martin Gear Date: 5/5/2003
Subject: Re: CC21 Review
Group: runacc Message: 83 From: Christine Connell Date: 5/5/2003
Subject: Re: Date ideas
Group: runacc Message: 84 From: Byron Connell Date: 5/5/2003
Subject: Re: CC21 Review – Part III
Group: runacc Message: 85 From: Ricky & Karen Dick Date: 5/5/2003
Subject: Re: CC21 Review – Part III
Group: runacc Message: 86 From: Byron Connell Date: 5/5/2003
Subject: CC21 Review: Judges’ Perspective
Group: runacc Message: 87 From: Bruce & Nora Mai Date: 5/5/2003
Subject: Re: CC Dates
Group: runacc Message: 88 From: Byron Connell Date: 5/5/2003
Subject: Re: CC21 Review
Group: runacc Message: 89 From: Charles Galway Date: 5/6/2003
Subject: Re: Shuttle rates
Group: runacc Message: 90 From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger Date: 5/6/2003
Subject: Re: CC Dates
Group: runacc Message: 91 From: Andrew T Trembley Date: 5/6/2003
Subject: Re: CC21 Review: Judges’ Perspective
Group: runacc Message: 92 From: Sharon Date: 5/6/2003
Subject: Re: CC21 Review – Part III
Group: runacc Message: 93 From: Betsy Delaney Date: 5/6/2003
Subject: Re: Shuttle rates
Group: runacc Message: 94 From: Ricky & Karen Dick Date: 5/6/2003
Subject: Re: Future CC’s
Group: runacc Message: 95 From: Betsy Delaney Date: 5/6/2003
Subject: Re: Future CC’s
Group: runacc Message: 96 From: Charles Galway Date: 5/6/2003
Subject: Re: Future CC’s
Group: runacc Message: 97 From: henryosier@cs.com Date: 5/6/2003
Subject: Re: CC Dates
Group: runacc Message: 98 From: Andrew Trembley Date: 5/6/2003
Subject: CC23 and general questions (was Re: [runacc] CC21 Review)
Group: runacc Message: 99 From: Betsy Delaney Date: 5/6/2003
Subject: Re: CC23 and general questions (was Re: [runacc] CC21 Review)
Group: runacc Message: 100 From: Betsy Delaney Date: 5/6/2003
Subject: Outline from the White Board at CC21

 


 

Group: runacc Message: 51 From: Betsy Delaney Date: 5/4/2003
Subject: Re: CC21 Review – Part III
Thank you to Bruce, Nora and Karen for a very well written review of the
con. From the “front” there isn’t much more to add.

There are several background issues which should be addressed here, but
I’m still deep in the CC site, and can’t take the time at the moment.

Bruce, would you please boil the three sections down (if possible) to a
single printed page, for inclusion in the next Newsletter?

Any discussion, comments, further remarks from the rest of this list?

Thanks again!

Betsy


Betsy R. Delaney
Costume-Con Archivist
Costume-ConNections (http://www.Costume-Con.org/)

 

Group: runacc Message: 52 From: henryosier@cs.com Date: 5/4/2003
Subject: Re: CC21 Review – Parts 1,2, & 3
Bruce, Nora, & Karen:
Thank you for the detailed review of the convention. Give me a day
or two to re-read your e-mails and respond to them in a more complete manner.
I want to put as much thought as the three of you did into my response.

In a nutshell, I appreciate the views you expressed. Some you hit
right on the head, some are news to me, like things in the Green Room, and
some I’d like to explain. I feel that things said in this e-group are more
private and confidential than others.
Henry Osier

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 

Group: runacc Message: 53 From: Elaine Mami Date: 5/4/2003
Subject: Re: CC21 Review – Part III

I strongly agree with almost everything they posted. I especially feel that
Easter and Passover should be avoided in future. While there may or may not
be an appreciably larger attendance, it would make for a more comfortable
con in general. Personally, I did not think to pack myself a box of matzoh
since I was sure there would be some at the con suite, as I have seen at
past (general SF/F) cons. My own fault, true, but most of the meat snacks
were of the pork family, so the lack of cheeses and veggies became a problem
for me, if not for others. Also, holiday air fares are higher.

Elaine

> Any discussion, comments, further remarks from the rest of this list?
>
> Thanks again!
>
> Betsy
>

 

Group: runacc Message: 54 From: Martin Gear Date: 5/4/2003
Subject: Re: CC21 Review – Part III

Elaine Mami wrote:
<snip>

> Also, holiday air fares are higher.

Here is where we run into a problem. Holiday air fares are frequently
higher, but holiday hotel rates are generally lower. Also, for a small
convention like CC, which can never hope to “own the hotel”, the only
way to get sufficient function space is probably going to be to schedule
on a holiday weekend in most parts of the country. FWIIW, early Spring
is usually the worst time of the year for hotel bookings and the hotels
are hungry for business, at the same time, the weather can be “iffy”
leaving some people unable to get to the con. There is no perfect
answer. Keeping all this in mind, I’d be interested to see comments
regarding the choice of “Presidents’ Day” weekend for a CC.

Thanks –
^M^

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 

Group: runacc Message: 55 From: Betsy Delaney Date: 5/4/2003
Subject: Re: CC21 Review – Part III

Well, considering that we had a major blizzard that weekend right here
this year….I’m not currently in favor of it.

I think if we had to choose a holiday weekend, I’d prefer revisiting
Memorial Day, except that with major regional SF cons having taken that
weekend as their own, we could also lose in draw from them. And with
many historic groups looking at that weekend as the first to get out and
do stuff outdoors, we lose the historic costumers as well.

It will be interesting to see how the next two CCs do, since they’re
both scheduled off-holiday.

Cheers,

Betsy

Martin Gear wrote:

>
> Elaine Mami wrote:
> <snip>
> > Also, holiday air fares are higher.
>

[snip]

Keeping all this in mind, I’d be interested to see comments

> regarding the choice of “Presidents’ Day” weekend for a CC.
>
> Thanks –
> ^M^
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> runacc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Betsy R. Delaney
Web Mistress at large

************************************************************************
http://www.WebInvent.com/ * http://www.hawkeswood.com/
http://www.Costume-Con.org/ * http://www.sickpups.org/
http://www.SchoolWithoutWalls.org/
************************************************************************

 

Group: runacc Message: 56 From: Byron Connell Date: 5/4/2003
Subject: Re: CC21 Review – Part III

Well written and well balanced reviews that captured both the strengths and the problems! I agree with much of the comments.

The CC runners’ guide should remind committees to provide receipts for memberships, either in the form of the PR or, if PRs are not restricted to members (i.e., used for publicity), in some other form.

I agree with the comments so far about the advisability of avoiding Easter and Passover. When the CC 24 people asked about when to hold the con, our response was, “Not Easter weekend!”

More later, I hope.

Byron

—– Original Message —–
From: Betsy Delaney
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2003 10:30 AM
Subject: Re: [runacc] CC21 Review – Part III

Thank you to Bruce, Nora and Karen for a very well written review of the
con. From the “front” there isn’t much more to add.

There are several background issues which should be addressed here, but
I’m still deep in the CC site, and can’t take the time at the moment.

Bruce, would you please boil the three sections down (if possible) to a
single printed page, for inclusion in the next Newsletter?

Any discussion, comments, further remarks from the rest of this list?

Thanks again!

Betsy

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 

Group: runacc Message: 57 From: Karen Heim Date: 5/4/2003
Subject: Re: CC21 Review – Part III

Martin Gear wrote:

> There is no perfect
> answer. Keeping all this in mind, I’d be interested to see comments
> regarding the choice of “Presidents’ Day” weekend for a CC.
>

I know nothing of the hotel or travel costs.

However, since we are still strongly in the grip of winter, there is
always the danger of travel delays due to road conditions/airport
closures. Also, most of us like to wander around a little in the town,
try a restaurant, do some shopping. This becomes a much bigger hassle
in February.

Also, that weekend can be affected by Valentine’s Day or, depending on
the timing, the last weekend of partying before Lent.

Karen

 

Group: runacc Message: 58 From: Andrew Trembley Date: 5/4/2003
Subject: Date ideas (was Re: [runacc] CC21 Review – Part III)

Martin Gear said:

> Keeping all this in mind, I’d be interested to see comments
> regarding the choice of “Presidents’ Day” weekend for a CC.

While I would love to go with a holiday weekend, we’re going to have to go
off-holiday for many reasons.

Easter is right out for numerous reasons. CC21 picked Easter because
Minicon (before they pulled a Boskone) used to be a major midwest costume
venue on Easter weekend and the theory is that it was an open space in
people’s schedules. It was a good working idea. Unfortunately, the
intervening four years kind of washed that tradition away.

CC26? isn’t planning for President’s Day weekend because there is an
established fan-run Dr. Who convention in LA then (and we like going to
it). Also, Sandy and Pierre asked us if we would consider scheduling later
spring so a drive over the rockies might be more reasonable.

CC26? also isn’t planning for Memorial Day weekend because that’s BayCon
and it would be stupid to schedule against our own big local, particularly
since we’re thinking about their hotel.

We’re aiming for the last weekend in April, which should be reasonable
weather (tail end of the rainy season and I-80 should be completely open).
I don’t think that conflicts with any major west coast cons. It should be
a reasonable choice.

andy

 

Group: runacc Message: 59 From: Ricky & Karen Dick Date: 5/4/2003
Subject: Re: CC21 Review
To all: We LIKED the con being over Easter (BaltiCon’s old weekend), as
Cait didn’t have to miss much school to attend the con. This is a REAL
issue for Maryland schools; too many absences, even for students with
otherwise high grades, and the school administration threatens to make the
student repeat the semester. I sure don’t remember it being this
authoritation when I was in junior high and high school 30+ years ago in
California.

To Henry: Ricky and I also agree with most of what Bruce, Nora, and the
other Karen have told you. Please don’t get defensive and feel you have to
explain everything. Much of what went wrong was invisible to your
attendees, especially the first-timers, who were having Big Fun. Take it as
constructive criticism from the veterans who have been in the trenches and
had their own learning experiences, because you WILL have to fix most of
these things if you expect to run another Costume-Con. [Your facility would
have been completely overwhelmed if you had drawn the attendance you
expected.] And those of you who are on current committees or bid committees
should take special note of the criticisms of CC-21, because you DON’T want
to have those same problems at your conventions.

My two cents, which also has relevance for future cons:

Re Hotel shuttle: There was a lack of shuttle service to the airport on
Thursday night. I had friends from California who made reservations for the
hotel shuttle (or so they thought) and ended up with a VERY expensive taxi
ride instead because there was NO hotel shuttle to be found when they
arrived at the airport. For those of you still in the process of selecting
hotels, PLEASE pick a facility that is close to transportation, as a
significant portion of your membership WILL fly in from out of state. Find
out if there is a hotel shuttle to and from the airport, and whether it is
“courtesy” or “complimentary” (one is free and one is not). I learned this
lesson on CC-1 (whose hotel was a $15 “courtesy” shuttle ride from the
nearest airport, which was a LOT of money in those days. If there is a fee,
PUBLISH IT in your PRs so your membership is not caught unawares.

Re PRs: Yes, I know we live in the Age of the Internet, but not everybody
is online (especially in an artsy-craftsy hobby such as ours), but you HAVE
to mail printed PRs to your membership, and not rely on their getting
information from off your website.

Also re PRs: Please publish a list of paid members at the back of your PRs,
and keep updating it each time you print a new PR. (Also would be prudent
to park it somewhere on the website.) Many people scan through these lists
and decide to go if they see their friends are going. Many of us do not see
each other other than Costume-Con, so it’s kind of a class reuinion type
mindset. Exploit that to its fullest.

Re Masquerades and other stage events:
(1) Get your stage locked in as early as possible, and then get the
information out there. I’m not sure what went wrong at CC-21, and I’m not
sure it was any one person’s fault, but this was a major point of
irritation for a whole lot of attendees who were competing. At CC-6, we
knew what our stage was going to be like (and how many more risers we had
to go rent from a local theatrical supply house to make it happen) before
we even signed a hotel contract, so there is NO excuse for this.
(2) Print award certificates in advance, and have your judges pre-sign a
whole bunch of them while they are waiting around for the masquerade to
start. There is no excuse not to have something to hand every winning entry
at the con. (Note: At the cons I ran, we also gave Certificates of
Appreciation to everyone who participated in the Fashion Show.)
(3) Have an odd number of judges (3 or 5) in order to avoid ties.

Re the convention’s being on a holiday weekend: For every person who
complains about higher airfares and missing out on family obligations,
there will be others who would prefer to have that “extra” day (typically a
paid holiday from work) in order to travel or extend their convention stay.
[I missed a whole lot of Easters to attend EquiCon and BaltiCon, and a
whole lot of Thanksgivings to attend LosCon–with the triple guilt trip
that my parents’ anniversary AND my mother’s birthday fell on Thanksgiving
most years.] Costume-Con was founded on a three-day weekend (Martin Luther
King Day), most of them have been run on three-day weekends, and this is
because the Historical runs so late on Sunday night and it is nice to have
the Monday as a paid day off from work. I can understand the problem with
putting Costume-Con on a religious holiday weekend.
I also understand that two earlier holiday weekends (Martin Luther King and
Presidents) typically have weather problems, particularly in the East (and
problems with Easterners getting to CCs in milder climates due to major
winter storms).

Re advertising: Send flyers to every convention you can think of, and not
just your local ones. WorldCon, WesterCon, BaltiCon, Arisia, LunaCon,
DragonCon, BayCon, Archon, San Diego Comic-Con, Toronto Trek, and the big
anime cons should get flyered for starters. (I’m sure there are others I’m
forgetting.) If you can’t be there in person, ask on this list and the
ICG-D list if anyone is going, and can take flyers for you, and maybe
“push” the con if they are doing panels.
Even if they’re not going themselves, most of them “know” somebody who can.
(Worst case, send a stack of flyers to the convention in care of the
committee member who’s in charge of coordinating fan clubs and special
interest groups at the con–they’ll see they get out on the flyer table. I
served this function for Comic-Con and StarCon for several years.) See if
your local fabric and bead stores will post or distribute flyers about your
event. Ditto any local schools with strong theatrical or fashion
departments. Ditto your local chapter of the SCA, RenFaire, and other
historical re-enactment groups. Send press releases about the con to
magazines such as Threads, Ornament, Belle Armoire, Sew News, etc. At
worst, you’ll get put in the calendar section. At best, they’ll do an
article about you. [David Coffin and a couple of other writers from Threads
attended CC-7 and had a good time, so there’s your “in” there.] Also send
press releases to your local paper(s) and news stations. Again, worst case,
you end up in the Calendar section; best case, they send a reporter to the
con. Many Costume-Cons cut their advertising budget about 6-9 months out
from the convention when the memberships are not rolling in and you’re
panicking over money (I understand about the panic mode, believe me). That
is absolutely the WORST thing you can do–if you don’t get the word out,
nobody knows to come. I’m saddened that Costume-Con only drew around 250
people when based in one of the largest cities in our country (and one that
has always drawn a good attendance for its WorldCon masquerade). Obviously,
the word did not get out.

Re hotel facilities: Costume-Con is a VERY space-intensive convention in
terms of panel rooms, competitions, vendor rooms, and displays. Typically,
a 500-person Costume-Con will need the same sort of facilities as a regular
S/F con drawing an attendance of 1,000 to 2,000. Which is the reason why
you need to cut the best hotel deal you can, and offset as many fees on
this space as possible with room nights. At CC-1, we did a food function (a
luncheon before the Fashion Show) to make the hotel happy. At CC-6, we
ordered coffee/tea services and snacks for the con suite and public areas
of the convention to make the hotel happy. You have to decide what
trade-offs you can make. I am no expert on hotel contracts (we paid $$$$
after CC-1, and our CC-6 contract was negotiated by Michael Siladi, who
negotiates regularly for BayCon and WesterCon), but Marty Gear has promised
to write a comprehensive guide for CC. YOUR HOTEL CONTRACT CAN MAKE YOU OR
BREAK YOU, so this is an area worthy of a lot of attention.

These are the major points I can think of at the moment. Again, let’s find
ways to get all of these ramblings codified so inexperienced committees
don’t have to keep reinventing the wheel. I’m sorry it has not gotten
codified before this. I’ve run 3 CC’s (with memberships ranging from 150 up
to 600 attendees) with NO instructions (and put 500 people through my house
and yard every night for 10 nights every October for the last 10 years,
also with no instructions), but I can understand the need for a blueprint
in order to ensure consistency and excellence from year to year.

–Karen

 

Group: runacc Message: 60 From: Elaine Mami Date: 5/4/2003
Subject: Re: Date ideas

Andy said…

> We’re aiming for the last weekend in April, which should be reasonable
> weather (tail end of the rainy season and I-80 should be completely open).
> I don’t think that conflicts with any major west coast cons. It should be
> a reasonable choice.

This is a valid point. To avoid conflict with any major cons in general,
and to have reasonable travelling weather as well, is the ideal. I clearly
remember the President’s Day weekend snows messing up several cons due to
travel conditions.

To the best of my knowledge, the end of April does not contain any major
East Coast cons either. Byron, Betsy, please correct me if I’m wrong. I’m
clueless about the rest of the country.

I hate to cause a problem here, but what are your thoughts about
establishing a more regular time for CCs? Is this even something worth
thinking about? (I am now ducking behind large furniture.)

Elaine

 

Group: runacc Message: 61 From: Betsy Delaney Date: 5/4/2003
Subject: Re: Date ideas

I think this is true, Elaine, and still a little early for the
re-enacting events to start kicking in as well.

Our social calendar exploded May 1, and won’t really stop until sometime
after the middle of June. We already have our choice of four different
events, including Balticon, on Memorial Day Saturday alone).

I’m not sure about the south, central or western parts of the country.

Regarding scheduling for a regular weekend: When attempting to get the
best price from the hotel, you kind of need to work with their already
booked schedule. Three (four, really) years out, you have much more
flexibility, but still depending on where you choose to bid your con,
you may run into other regularly scheduled events.

For example, here in Columbia, where two of the CCs were held (CC3 and
CC9), we had Memorial Day and President’s Day weekends respectively. As
I recall, the former was a major problem for our area because there’s an
annual soccer tournament, and all the hotels are booked well in advance
to accommodate all the out of town teams. (I’m certain Marty will
correct me if I’m wrong, here.) I think that’s the main reason we chose
to do CC9 in February. No soccer teams to worry about.

I do think we could try for a narrower window. Or for after Memorial Day
if the school issue is a problem (a valid concern, and one I’ll have to
deal with myself in about another three years). I think, without reading
the passage, that the ConStitution stipulates a tradition, not a
requirement in sticking with the Memorial Day cut-off for the con.

YMMV.

Cheers,

Betsy

Elaine Mami wrote:

>
> Andy said…
>
> To the best of my knowledge, the end of April does not contain any major
> East Coast cons either. Byron, Betsy, please correct me if I’m wrong. I’m
> clueless about the rest of the country.
>
> I hate to cause a problem here, but what are your thoughts about
> establishing a more regular time for CCs? Is this even something worth
> thinking about? (I am now ducking behind large furniture.)
>
> Elaine
>
>
> View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> runacc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Betsy R. Delaney
Web Mistress at large

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************************************************************************

 

Group: runacc Message: 62 From: Bruce & Nora Mai Date: 5/4/2003
Subject: Re: Date ideas

I think the problem there would be that the “ideal date” (determined by
weather) would vary considerably depending on where a CC is being held.
Traditionally April has been fairly nice, consistent weather in St. Louis.
The last 2 years it’s been relatively nice in March, rainy and cold to hot
in April though early May. You see the dilemma.
Also having checked the holidays for 2007 (the year of CC25), Easter is
April 8th and Passover is the 2nd through 26th.

Nora

From: “Elaine Mami” <vze3zdpc@verizon.net>

> I hate to cause a problem here, but what are your thoughts about
> establishing a more regular time for CCs? Is this even something worth
> thinking about? (I am now ducking behind large furniture.)
> Elaine

 

Group: runacc Message: 63 From: Elaine Mami Date: 5/4/2003
Subject: Re: Date ideas

> Also having checked the holidays for 2007 (the year of CC25), Easter is
> April 8th and Passover is the 2nd through 26th.

That’s not possible. Passover is only (!) 8 days long! Please check those
dates again.

Also, I am not advocating trying to totally avoid Passover. That’s not
logical, for one thing, and not necessary, either. My point re: Passover
was that the food options were limited, and I had not prepared for that.
Had I been planning better, I would have provided for myself. Also, I
totally avoided starving! However, the idea here is to gather enough
information for future concoms to avoid the same mistakes that have already
been made.

For instance, I remember Balticons always had notices of where Easter
services were being held, often had small Seders, and had a variety of foods
in the con suite to please most (but never all) attendees. I know Marty
will correct me if I’m mis-remembering.

How does this sound? – take a page or two from Balticon, and publish a list
of local churches and synagogues (with their service times), as well as a
comprehensive dining guide.

Elaine

 

Group: runacc Message: 64 From: Bruce & Nora Mai Date: 5/4/2003
Subject: Re: Date ideas

From: “Elaine Mami” <vze3zdpc@verizon.net>

> > Also having checked the holidays for 2007 (the year of CC25), Easter is
> > April 8th and Passover is the 2nd through 26th.
> That’s not possible. Passover is only (!) 8 days long! Please check

those

> dates again.

Okay, so now the secret’s out – I don’t observe Passover.
I got that info from an online holiday calendar; obviously an inaccurate
one – I willdouble-check. (It did seem rather long to me, but what do I
know?)
Nora

 

Group: runacc Message: 65 From: Ricky & Karen Dick Date: 5/5/2003
Subject: Re: Date ideas

At 09:59 PM 5/4/2003 -0400, you wrote:

>I do think we could try for a narrower window. Or for after Memorial Day
>if the school issue is a problem (a valid concern, and one I’ll have to
>deal with myself in about another three years). I think, without reading
>the passage, that the ConStitution stipulates a tradition, not a
>requirement in sticking with the Memorial Day cut-off for the con.

Remember, folks, that *I* have to approve the bid. And if someone bids for
a date outside the “traditional” window for Costume-Con, I have every right
to deny them. The precedent is the Southern California bid for CC18 that
attempted to move CC to a July date and combine it with Costume College. As
Captain Hook would say, “Bad form.”

There is a broad “window” in the spring for Costume-Con specifically to try
to avoid conflicts with local events, and to try to give committees as much
flexibility as possible. The spring window is also to avoid running
Costume-Con up against WesterCon and WorldCon, for people who are trying to
make new competition costumes for those events.

As for avoiding holiday weekends to avoid conflicts with other cons, it’s
damn near impossible. There is a con with a masquerade going on somewhere
in the country (or in Canada) just about every weekend of the year. Or you
end up conflicting with SCA Twelfth Night. (We chose our dates for CC-2 so
as not to conflict with the local Twelfth Night, and then some other
royalty came into power, and changed the dates, so we ended up bending
ourselves all out of shape for nothing.) Or RenFaire. Or whatever. It’s
best to just pick a date somewhere within the specified range and go for it.

–Karen

 

Group: runacc Message: 66 From: Charles Galway Date: 5/5/2003
Subject: Re: CC21 Review – Part III
CONduit has printed a code on the mailing label indicating paid membership. Since the PRs are sent bulk mail (not likely for CC23), differing insertions are not permitted in bulk mail.
Charles

—–Original Message—–
From: Byron Connell <bconnel1@nycap.rr.com>

The CC runners’ guide should remind committees to provide receipts for memberships, either in the form of the PR or, if PRs are not restricted to members (i.e., used for publicity), in some other form.

More later, I hope.

Byron

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Group: runacc Message: 67 From: Charles Galway Date: 5/5/2003
Subject: Re: Date ideas (was Re: [runacc] CC21 Review – Part III)
That reasoning is very similar to the date selected for CC-23 (Utah). One of our earlier bids was for late march/early april, but at CC-18, some folks were afraid of blizzards in the mountains. Some of our tentative West Coast vendors warned us of some major events on Holiday weekends. We also had a problem of bumping up against the major local CONduit, which was between Mother’s Day and Memorial (but has now moved to Memorial day).

So we have that same date (as the CC-26 bid — end of April-early may) for CC-23.

We may bump into an SCA event, but we learned from CONduit that trying to miss those events can be like the Twelth Night story mentioned elsewhere here.

(Hope you can make it over here Andy)
Charles

—–Original Message—–
From: Andrew Trembley <attrembl@bovil.com>
<snip>
We’re aiming for the last weekend in April, which should be reasonable
weather (tail end of the rainy season and I-80 should be completely open).
I don’t think that conflicts with any major west coast cons. It should be
a reasonable choice.

andy

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Group: runacc Message: 68 From: Charles Galway Date: 5/5/2003
Subject: Re: CC21 Review
This brings up a few points:

Dave Doering has set up a on-line data file service, which I’m hoping will help our concom keep track of some communication. I’ll let you know about it’s effectiveness, as we progress.

I wondered if we should list paid members? It sounds like the answer is yes (unless they request we don’t).

Working on the masquerade for CONduit, we very rarely get the stage we thought we designed. Partly our fault, and partly the hotel. (I have worked both on masquerade, and on hotel liason.) This should not be a problem for CC-23 since we are planning on using a theater.

What is “A LOT” of money for a shuttle fare? We have shuttle service to our hotel, not complimentary. We are aware that can be a bit of a problem, but noticed other CC’s were outside the major city (Chicago, Atlanta) The costs per person drop for multiple riders, but we are still working on how to try to coordinate this.

The hotel costs are very scary for our CC, and I would be interested in learning more. We did have a choice of charging more per room, and getting a cut rate on convention space. We opted for cheap rooms, but boy, it makes the hotel cost intimidating. It could make a difference if there are lots of cheap rooms close by. It would not make sense to scare everyone away from the hotel, and then not make the room-count price-break. If no cheaper hotels a close by, then it is safer to let the room rates rise a bit.

I joined the Chicago Yahoo chat list. I thought I could learn something by eaves-dropping. Whatever happened at Chicago, did not happen on the list. (CONduit has a chat-list, and it’s used quite a bit, but is not considered official. Which is not to say the things don’t get turned into policy anyway.)

Charles

—–Original Message—–
From: Ricky & Karen Dick <castleb@pulsenet.com>

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Group: runacc Message: 69 From: Christine Connell Date: 5/5/2003
Subject: Receipts for memberships
Receipts for paid con memberships are GOOD! However, what no one else noted
re: CC21 is that (at least when I went to hand in Byron’s and mine) the Site
Selection table was not giving out receipts for checks received with
ballots, and in fact the person there gave me a really blank look when I
said that I wanted one. I had to vigorously INSIST upon getting something
in writing. As it was, what I got was a torn-off scrap of lined paper from
a note pad. After a certain CC which shall remain nameless lost all record
of people who had site selected (and who therefore had a credit toward con
membership), I personally am not prepared to hand over my money without some
tangible proof that it was received. It’s like an umbrella – if you carry
it, it won’t rain; if you don’t, it’ll pour. The old “your cancelled check
will be your receipt” line doesn’t work any more, in these days when banks
charge you extra to get them back, and when you may not find out until many
months later that the con committee either lost your check or failed to
record it properly.

Also, CC committees who send representatives to other CC’s, as well as
WorldCon or large regionals, should always have a list of paid members at
their table with them, showing both supporting and attending members.

Tina

 

Group: runacc Message: 70 From: Betsy Delaney Date: 5/5/2003
Subject: Re: Receipts for memberships/Site Selection Process

This is a good point.

Although I offered to assist the process earlier (by at least a few
months) for CC24, there was no follow-through. When the time came to
count the ballots, I was asked to help by this year’s site selection
commissioner.

That’s when I found out the individuals who collected the money had
failed to record many of the individuals’ payment methods at all,
because the responsibility for collecting the funds was delegated
without giving instructions to the individuals who were collecting them.

This represented two problems:

1. Wasting an hour while we sorted through each ballot and certified the
method of payment.
2. Finding one travellers check made out to the ICG(!).

We spent so much time looking at the dollar amounts, it didn’t even
occur to me to check the address blocks for complete information. And
because CC21’s badges did not have membership numbers printed (as is
stipulated in the ConStitution), it’s going to be harder for CC24 to
match up for missing data.

I would have thought that the process Karen outlined in the ConStitution
would be enough for management of the site selection process. We’re
lucky that there was only one bid this year, since that makes the
management a little easier, but still, I’m not sure what happened there.

And concerning depositing of those funds: The checks need to be cleared
within 90 days, or the checks go stale. There were issues with
depositing the checks received from CC21 that should be avoided in the
future.

I think this needs to be addressed more fully.

Betsy

Christine Connell wrote:

>
> Receipts for paid con memberships are GOOD! However, what no one else noted
> re: CC21 is that (at least when I went to hand in Byron’s and mine) the Site
> Selection table was not giving out receipts for checks received with
> ballots, and in fact the person there gave me a really blank look when I
> said that I wanted one. I had to vigorously INSIST upon getting something
> in writing. As it was, what I got was a torn-off scrap of lined paper from
> a note pad. After a certain CC which shall remain nameless lost all record
> of people who had site selected (and who therefore had a credit toward con
> membership), I personally am not prepared to hand over my money without some
> tangible proof that it was received. It’s like an umbrella – if you carry
> it, it won’t rain; if you don’t, it’ll pour. The old “your cancelled check
> will be your receipt” line doesn’t work any more, in these days when banks
> charge you extra to get them back, and when you may not find out until many
> months later that the con committee either lost your check or failed to
> record it properly.
>
> Also, CC committees who send representatives to other CC’s, as well as
> WorldCon or large regionals, should always have a list of paid members at
> their table with them, showing both supporting and attending members.
>
> Tina


Betsy R. Delaney
Web Mistress at large

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http://www.Costume-Con.org/ * http://www.sickpups.org/
http://www.SchoolWithoutWalls.org/
************************************************************************

 

Group: runacc Message: 71 From: Betsy Delaney Date: 5/5/2003
Subject: Re: Date ideas

Um… I know when WorldCon generally is. When is WesterCon? Just
curious….

Cheers,

Betsy

Ricky & Karen Dick wrote:

>
> At 09:59 PM 5/4/2003 -0400, you wrote:

[snip]

> The spring window is also to avoid running
> Costume-Con up against WesterCon and WorldCon, for people who are trying to
> make new competition costumes for those events.


Betsy R. Delaney
Web Mistress at large

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http://www.Costume-Con.org/ * http://www.sickpups.org/
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************************************************************************

 

Group: runacc Message: 72 From: henryosier@cs.com Date: 5/5/2003
Subject: Re: CC21 Review – Part III

In a message dated 5/4/2003 6:15:33 PM Central Daylight Time,
bconnel1@nycap.rr.com writes:

> hen the CC 24 people asked about when to hold the con, our response was,
> “Not Easter weekend!”

In quick response to that particular matter with CC21, I didn’t pick that
weekend. I would have moved it one week either way.
Henry Osier

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 

Group: runacc Message: 73 From: Sharon Date: 5/5/2003
Subject: Holiday Weekends (was CC21 Review – Part III)

The problem I saw was large hotels did not want to commit three years
in advance to a small gathering, such as CC, that wanted most of
their function space, weren’t going to take up an equivalent number
of guest rooms, and had little need for catered food because a better
group could come along in that time.

A holiday weekend in a town that thrives on tourism might hurt the
bid getting the best facilities that far in advance. The hotels
would much rather cut their best deal three to six months in advance
of the event – goes without saying, that’s impractical for our needs.

In a town that doesn’t have a lot of tourism, it would help getting a
large hotel, but then the bid would have to educate the rest of us
about the location’s offerings.

Another drawback is that some things are closed during some holidays,
but not others – like the American Girls Store was closed Sunday. In
case you didn’t know, Chicago is the only location of an American
Girls store. It’s probably open during ‘shopping’ holidays like
President’s Day, Columbus Day …

The only other thought I have is great location/atmosphere – poor
transportation or hotel options, could also hinder a CC.

Sharon

— In runacc@yahoogroups.com, Martin Gear <MartinGear@c…> wrote in
part:

There is no perfect

> answer. Keeping all this in mind, I’d be interested to see comments
> regarding the choice of “Presidents’ Day” weekend for a CC.
>
> Thanks –
> ^M^

 

Group: runacc Message: 74 From: Trudy Leonard Date: 5/5/2003
Subject: Re: Date ideas (was Re: [runacc] CC21 Review – Part III)

CC22 went with an early April date to avoid con:
1. – avoid conflicts with the Holidays (Easter is the week after, and
Passover doesn’t start until the Wednesday after the Con, so even if you
stay until Tuesday, you should make it home in time. We will also have a
listing of all the local churches and synagogue, for those who might wish to
attend Palm Sunday services or Friday evening services)

2. – the weather in Atlanta at that time of year is usually pretty good, not
too hot, not too cold. The past three years it has been in the low 70’s on
our dates. We did worry a little bit about the folks coming from the West,
but we are hoping that it won’t be too awful for them. (of course, next year
we will undoubtedly have either a heat wave or a blizzard, just to spite us)

3. – it avoids most of the local festivals and conventions. RenFest doesn’t
start until the end of April, so the Rennies can come. The re-enactors also
don’t start gearing up until later in the month, so we hope they can make
it. The Dogwood Festival is usually that weekend, but in another part of
town, so you can pop outside and watch the hot air balloons go over without
dealing with the crowds.

4. – It’s just so darn pretty that time of year.

Trudy

>From: “Andrew Trembley” <attrembl@bovil.com>
>Reply-To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
>To: <runacc@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: Date ideas (was Re: [runacc] CC21 Review – Part III)
>Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 17:07:36 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Martin Gear said:
> > Keeping all this in mind, I’d be interested to see comments
> > regarding the choice of “Presidents’ Day” weekend for a CC.
>
>While I would love to go with a holiday weekend, we’re going to have to go
>off-holiday for many reasons.
>
>Easter is right out for numerous reasons. CC21 picked Easter because
>Minicon (before they pulled a Boskone) used to be a major midwest costume
>venue on Easter weekend and the theory is that it was an open space in
>people’s schedules. It was a good working idea. Unfortunately, the
>intervening four years kind of washed that tradition away.
>
>CC26? isn’t planning for President’s Day weekend because there is an
>established fan-run Dr. Who convention in LA then (and we like going to
>it). Also, Sandy and Pierre asked us if we would consider scheduling later
>spring so a drive over the rockies might be more reasonable.
>
>CC26? also isn’t planning for Memorial Day weekend because that’s BayCon
>and it would be stupid to schedule against our own big local, particularly
>since we’re thinking about their hotel.
>
>We’re aiming for the last weekend in April, which should be reasonable
>weather (tail end of the rainy season and I-80 should be completely open).
>I don’t think that conflicts with any major west coast cons. It should be
>a reasonable choice.
>
>andy
>
>

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Group: runacc Message: 75 From: henryosier@cs.com Date: 5/5/2003
Subject: Re: CC Dates
In regard to the dates, in the Midwest area, I cannot recommend February at
all! I was involved with a convention here in Milwaukee back in ’95 that was
severely hurt that year by a cold snap and snow. It sank attendance to the
point that there was no next year and the ones in charge, including me, had
to pay out of our pockets for the hotel bill.
Henry Osier

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 

Group: runacc Message: 76 From: Trudy Leonard Date: 5/5/2003
Subject: Re: CC21 Review

Just wanted to say that I am printing all this stuff out and hauling it to
the committee meeting this weekend. Keep going guys, you all were handing
out plenty of useful advice before and during the con, and I am really
appreciating all of it. There’s a lot of stuff that we may think that we
have covered, and then something else pops up that we have to consider. The
less of it that comes as a surprise, the happier I’ll be.

Trudy

>From: Ricky & Karen Dick <castleb@pulsenet.com>
>Reply-To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
>To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [runacc] CC21 Review
>Date: Sun, 04 May 2003 21:03:18 -0400
>
>To all: We LIKED the con being over Easter (BaltiCon’s old weekend), as
>Cait didn’t have to miss much school to attend the con. This is a REAL
>issue for Maryland schools; too many absences, even for students with
>otherwise high grades, and the school administration threatens to make the
>student repeat the semester. I sure don’t remember it being this
>authoritation when I was in junior high and high school 30+ years ago in
>California.
>
>To Henry: Ricky and I also agree with most of what Bruce, Nora, and the
>other Karen have told you. Please don’t get defensive and feel you have to
>explain everything. Much of what went wrong was invisible to your
>attendees, especially the first-timers, who were having Big Fun. Take it as
>constructive criticism from the veterans who have been in the trenches and
>had their own learning experiences, because you WILL have to fix most of
>these things if you expect to run another Costume-Con. [Your facility would
>have been completely overwhelmed if you had drawn the attendance you
>expected.] And those of you who are on current committees or bid committees
>should take special note of the criticisms of CC-21, because you DON’T want
>to have those same problems at your conventions.
>
>My two cents, which also has relevance for future cons:
>
>Re Hotel shuttle: There was a lack of shuttle service to the airport on
>Thursday night. I had friends from California who made reservations for the
>hotel shuttle (or so they thought) and ended up with a VERY expensive taxi
>ride instead because there was NO hotel shuttle to be found when they
>arrived at the airport. For those of you still in the process of selecting
>hotels, PLEASE pick a facility that is close to transportation, as a
>significant portion of your membership WILL fly in from out of state. Find
>out if there is a hotel shuttle to and from the airport, and whether it is
>”courtesy” or “complimentary” (one is free and one is not). I learned this
>lesson on CC-1 (whose hotel was a $15 “courtesy” shuttle ride from the
>nearest airport, which was a LOT of money in those days. If there is a fee,
>PUBLISH IT in your PRs so your membership is not caught unawares.
>
>Re PRs: Yes, I know we live in the Age of the Internet, but not everybody
>is online (especially in an artsy-craftsy hobby such as ours), but you HAVE
>to mail printed PRs to your membership, and not rely on their getting
>information from off your website.
>
>Also re PRs: Please publish a list of paid members at the back of your PRs,
>and keep updating it each time you print a new PR. (Also would be prudent
>to park it somewhere on the website.) Many people scan through these lists
>and decide to go if they see their friends are going. Many of us do not see
>each other other than Costume-Con, so it’s kind of a class reuinion type
>mindset. Exploit that to its fullest.
>
>Re Masquerades and other stage events:
>(1) Get your stage locked in as early as possible, and then get the
>information out there. I’m not sure what went wrong at CC-21, and I’m not
>sure it was any one person’s fault, but this was a major point of
>irritation for a whole lot of attendees who were competing. At CC-6, we
>knew what our stage was going to be like (and how many more risers we had
>to go rent from a local theatrical supply house to make it happen) before
>we even signed a hotel contract, so there is NO excuse for this.
>(2) Print award certificates in advance, and have your judges pre-sign a
>whole bunch of them while they are waiting around for the masquerade to
>start. There is no excuse not to have something to hand every winning entry
>at the con. (Note: At the cons I ran, we also gave Certificates of
>Appreciation to everyone who participated in the Fashion Show.)
>(3) Have an odd number of judges (3 or 5) in order to avoid ties.
>
>Re the convention’s being on a holiday weekend: For every person who
>complains about higher airfares and missing out on family obligations,
>there will be others who would prefer to have that “extra” day (typically a
>paid holiday from work) in order to travel or extend their convention stay.
>[I missed a whole lot of Easters to attend EquiCon and BaltiCon, and a
>whole lot of Thanksgivings to attend LosCon–with the triple guilt trip
>that my parents’ anniversary AND my mother’s birthday fell on Thanksgiving
>most years.] Costume-Con was founded on a three-day weekend (Martin Luther
>King Day), most of them have been run on three-day weekends, and this is
>because the Historical runs so late on Sunday night and it is nice to have
>the Monday as a paid day off from work. I can understand the problem with
>putting Costume-Con on a religious holiday weekend.
>I also understand that two earlier holiday weekends (Martin Luther King and
>Presidents) typically have weather problems, particularly in the East (and
>problems with Easterners getting to CCs in milder climates due to major
>winter storms).
>
>Re advertising: Send flyers to every convention you can think of, and not
>just your local ones. WorldCon, WesterCon, BaltiCon, Arisia, LunaCon,
>DragonCon, BayCon, Archon, San Diego Comic-Con, Toronto Trek, and the big
>anime cons should get flyered for starters. (I’m sure there are others I’m
>forgetting.) If you can’t be there in person, ask on this list and the
>ICG-D list if anyone is going, and can take flyers for you, and maybe
>”push” the con if they are doing panels.
>Even if they’re not going themselves, most of them “know” somebody who can.
>(Worst case, send a stack of flyers to the convention in care of the
>committee member who’s in charge of coordinating fan clubs and special
>interest groups at the con–they’ll see they get out on the flyer table. I
>served this function for Comic-Con and StarCon for several years.) See if
>your local fabric and bead stores will post or distribute flyers about your
>event. Ditto any local schools with strong theatrical or fashion
>departments. Ditto your local chapter of the SCA, RenFaire, and other
>historical re-enactment groups. Send press releases about the con to
>magazines such as Threads, Ornament, Belle Armoire, Sew News, etc. At
>worst, you’ll get put in the calendar section. At best, they’ll do an
>article about you. [David Coffin and a couple of other writers from Threads
>attended CC-7 and had a good time, so there’s your “in” there.] Also send
>press releases to your local paper(s) and news stations. Again, worst case,
>you end up in the Calendar section; best case, they send a reporter to the
>con. Many Costume-Cons cut their advertising budget about 6-9 months out
>from the convention when the memberships are not rolling in and you’re
>panicking over money (I understand about the panic mode, believe me). That
>is absolutely the WORST thing you can do–if you don’t get the word out,
>nobody knows to come. I’m saddened that Costume-Con only drew around 250
>people when based in one of the largest cities in our country (and one that
>has always drawn a good attendance for its WorldCon masquerade). Obviously,
>the word did not get out.
>
>Re hotel facilities: Costume-Con is a VERY space-intensive convention in
>terms of panel rooms, competitions, vendor rooms, and displays. Typically,
>a 500-person Costume-Con will need the same sort of facilities as a regular
>S/F con drawing an attendance of 1,000 to 2,000. Which is the reason why
>you need to cut the best hotel deal you can, and offset as many fees on
>this space as possible with room nights. At CC-1, we did a food function (a
>luncheon before the Fashion Show) to make the hotel happy. At CC-6, we
>ordered coffee/tea services and snacks for the con suite and public areas
>of the convention to make the hotel happy. You have to decide what
>trade-offs you can make. I am no expert on hotel contracts (we paid $$$$
>after CC-1, and our CC-6 contract was negotiated by Michael Siladi, who
>negotiates regularly for BayCon and WesterCon), but Marty Gear has promised
>to write a comprehensive guide for CC. YOUR HOTEL CONTRACT CAN MAKE YOU OR
>BREAK YOU, so this is an area worthy of a lot of attention.
>
>These are the major points I can think of at the moment. Again, let’s find
>ways to get all of these ramblings codified so inexperienced committees
>don’t have to keep reinventing the wheel. I’m sorry it has not gotten
>codified before this. I’ve run 3 CC’s (with memberships ranging from 150 up
>to 600 attendees) with NO instructions (and put 500 people through my house
>and yard every night for 10 nights every October for the last 10 years,
>also with no instructions), but I can understand the need for a blueprint
>in order to ensure consistency and excellence from year to year.
>
>–Karen
>

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Group: runacc Message: 77 From: henryosier@cs.com Date: 5/5/2003
Subject: Re: CC21 Review

In a message dated 5/4/2003 8:00:30 PM Central Daylight Time,
castleb@pulsenet.com writes:

> Please don’t get defensive and feel you have to
> explain everything.

Karen, and all,
Part of the reason that I decided to give myself a couple days to
respond was to let in sink in and not be defensive. I worked very hard on
CC21, to the point of putting my life on hold till now. I do admit that it
should have been better. My staff and I are con working vets, but, yes, there
are differences between SF cons and CC’s. There are similarities, also. I
still have a great deal of pride in CC21. And when I fully respond to the
criticism, I am going to try hard to put that aside, and acknowledge it when
it does creep up.
Henry Osier

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 

Group: runacc Message: 78 From: Martin Gear Date: 5/5/2003
Subject: Re: Date ideas

Betsy Delaney wrote:

>

<snip>

> For example, here in Columbia, where two of the CCs were held (CC3 and
> CC9), we had Memorial Day and President’s Day weekends respectively. As
> I recall, the former was a major problem for our area because there’s an
> annual soccer tournament, and all the hotels are booked well in advance
> to accommodate all the out of town teams. (I’m certain Marty will
> correct me if I’m wrong, here.) I think that’s the main reason we chose
> to do CC9 in February. No soccer teams to worry about.

Sorry Betsy, but according to my records, we’ve held all three Baltimore
area CC’s over Memorial Day weekend. That was Disclave’s weekend, and
since Disclave did not generally do a masquerade, we offered a special
rate to Disclave members who wanted to come to Costume Con just for the
masquerades.

The soccer tournament was not a major problem for CC-3 although as Kathy
Sanders put it, “We were expecting (bass voice) SOCCER PLAYERS and we
got (falsetto voice) soccer players.” During that weekend the Hilton
was the headquarters hotel for the tournament and most of the teams
stayed with families in the area. By CC-9, the tournament has expanded
and we had a lot more soccer families staying at the Columbia Inn. Also
it became obvious that the Columbia Inn really did not have sufficient
function space for the size that Costume Con had become. We held CC-15
in downtown Baltimore over Memorial Day weekend because all of the
suburban hotels were now booked solid because of soccer tournaments in
the area. Given that, and the fact that BaltiCon [very costumer friendly
for those of you who never been] is now on Memorial Day weekend, I would
doubt that we will see any East Coast CC’s using that weekend.

^M^

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 

Group: runacc Message: 79 From: Ricky & Karen Dick Date: 5/5/2003
Subject: Re: Date ideas

At 10:24 AM 5/5/2003 -0400, you wrote:

>Um… I know when WorldCon generally is. When is WesterCon? Just
>curious….

July 4 weekend.

It rotates around. Has been as far west as Hawaii and as far east as Denver.

In the day, it consistently drew attendance of 2,000 people and
consistently put 40 or 50 masquerade entries on stage. I’m sure the numbers
are down there, as they are down everywhere else.

–Karen

–Karen

 

Group: runacc Message: 80 From: Ricky & Karen Dick Date: 5/5/2003
Subject: Re: Holiday Weekends (was CC21 Review – Part III)

At 03:41 PM 5/5/2003 +0000, you wrote:

>A holiday weekend in a town that thrives on tourism might hurt the
>bid getting the best facilities that far in advance.

Doesn’t even have to be a holiday wekeend.

San Diego, where the first two CC’s were held, is a tourist town with
fairly good weather all year (a cold winter is 50 degrees, LOL!). It was
very difficult to negotiate a decent hotel contract, because they could
always fill the space at non-convention rates, so why give us a break?

>The only other thought I have is great location/atmosphere – poor
>transportation or hotel options, could also hinder a CC.

You’re describing CC-7 in Albany, NY, which had a beautiful hotel, but was
in the middle of nowhere, no direct flights to it, airport that could only
handle small planes, etc. I had a *great* time, but the con was poorly
attended and lost money.

–Karen

 

Group: runacc Message: 81 From: Betsy Delaney Date: 5/5/2003
Subject: Re: Date ideas

CC 9: February, 15 – 18, 1991

I clearly remember Rusty Dawe and several other Californians going out
to play in the snow at the Con Suite that weekend.

It wasn’t a lot of snow, but it was definitely February.

Betsy

ps: If that wasn’t the logic, then I don’t remember why we chose to do
President’s Day.

pps: re: My suggestion for going past Memorial Day: I was thinking mid
June because students stood less chance of missing school. On the other
hand, while thinking about it at lunch, I realize that May 1 is also
frequently the start of peak season for tourist time, and hotels
generally charge more. Memorial Day is generally an exception.

I’m not opposed to Easter Weekend (Elaine raises some good points), and
since we’re not particularly religious, missing either Passover or
Easter isn’t that big a deal to us. Besides, I found a perfectly
acceptable “spring egg hunt” this year that was held the weekend before
Easter, taking it completely out of the realm of religion. I generally
prefer my holidays to be secular, anyway.

Finally: ppps: I meant to start the whole message with “Playing devil’s
advocate here…” Lack of sleep and too much housework and computerwork,
plus mommy-work at play here.

Carry on.

Cheers,

Betsy

Martin Gear wrote:

>
> Sorry Betsy, but according to my records, we’ve held all three Baltimore
> area CC’s over Memorial Day weekend. That was Disclave’s weekend, and
> since Disclave did not generally do a masquerade, we offered a special
> rate to Disclave members who wanted to come to Costume Con just for the
> masquerades.


Betsy R. Delaney
Web Mistress at large

************************************************************************
http://www.WebInvent.com/ * http://www.hawkeswood.com/
http://www.Costume-Con.org/ * http://www.sickpups.org/
http://www.SchoolWithoutWalls.org/
************************************************************************

 

Group: runacc Message: 82 From: Martin Gear Date: 5/5/2003
Subject: Re: CC21 Review

Charles Galway wrote:
<snip>

> Working on the masquerade for CONduit, we very rarely get the stage we thought we designed. Partly our fault, and partly the hotel.

This should never happen! All the hotel contracts that I have negotiated
(3 Costume Cons, 12 BaltiCons and two WorldCon) have had the stage
drawings/specifications as a part of the contract signed off by both the
Sales Critter and the Hotel’s General Manager. This meant that I
personally examined the facility’s risers, determined if there were any
that were in such poor condition that they could not be used, and found
a source for renting additional risers if we needed to do so. For
CC-15, two of the hotel’s risers had been damaged and not replaced, and
I used the contract specs to convince the hotel that they needed to
rent/borrow additional risers from an adjacent hotel. Anyone
negotiating hotel contracts should become intimately familiar with the
term “Liquidated Damages Clause”.

I expect to have a copy of the “Draft WorldCon Hotel Contract” annotated
for Costume Cons available for this list by the end of this month.
Anyone who is bidding for a CC should read it and even if you have
signed a hotel contract it would be worth while to look it over to make
certain that you have the critical stuff included in your hotel contract
and if not, get an addendum to the contract that you already have to
prevent the problems mentioned.

Marty

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 

Group: runacc Message: 83 From: Christine Connell Date: 5/5/2003
Subject: Re: Date ideas

I thought I remembered that also. I seem to remember hearing glad cries of
“look, it snowed!”

Actually, what I mostly remembered, unless I’m mixing it up with another
con, was the grueling trip down from Albany through the thick of a blizzard
in south-central NY and eastern PA. Byron doesn’t “do” snow if he can help
it, so I got to drive from somewhere around Oneonta (as I recall – it may
have been further south) down to southern PA, where the snow finally deigned
to change over to rain. There were semi-trailers off the road everywhere,
especially on the steep downhill grades in the mountains! Not to mention
the idiots who assume that if you have 4-wheel drive, you can go zipping
along at 60 on the snow! The drive down on the snow didn’t scare me; it was
the other drivers who scared me!

And then we got heavy fog in the mountains around Scranton – Wilkes Barre on
the way home. Byron doesn’t like to “do” fog either if he can help it.

PS: Somewhere, buried in a box, we may even have some photos of them
reveling in the snow. I vaguely recall snapping some pictures of the
occasion.

Tina

—– Original Message —–
From: “Betsy Delaney” <betsy@hawkeswood.com>
To: <runacc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2003 1:37 PM
Subject: Re: [runacc] Re: Date ideas

> CC 9: February, 15 – 18, 1991
>
> I clearly remember Rusty Dawe and several other Californians going out
> to play in the snow at the Con Suite that weekend.
>
> It wasn’t a lot of snow, but it was definitely February.
>
> Betsy
>
>>

 

Group: runacc Message: 84 From: Byron Connell Date: 5/5/2003
Subject: Re: CC21 Review – Part III

At present we have a CC “season” that runs from Presidents’ Day Weekend through Memorial Day Weekend. That gives concoms flexibility to pick the date for the con, which can be an advantage in terms of availability of hotel/facility. One disadvantage is that, because the con floats in time as well as space, costumers cannot rely on its being on a specific weekend. On the other hand, fixing the weekend for CC will put into competition with some sf con somewhere in North America, so the question is which approach results in the greater disadvantage.

Presidents’ Day Weekend is neither a traditional “family” holiday nor a major religious holiday, so it does not have the disadvantage of Easter/Passover. The major disadvantage is weather, but for much of North America that holds true for the rest of February and March. Albany has had snow in May!

Byron

—– Original Message —–
From: Betsy Delaney
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2003 7:03 PM
Subject: Re: [runacc] CC21 Review – Part III

Well, considering that we had a major blizzard that weekend right here
this year….I’m not currently in favor of it.

I think if we had to choose a holiday weekend, I’d prefer revisiting
Memorial Day, except that with major regional SF cons having taken that
weekend as their own, we could also lose in draw from them. And with
many historic groups looking at that weekend as the first to get out and
do stuff outdoors, we lose the historic costumers as well.

It will be interesting to see how the next two CCs do, since they’re
both scheduled off-holiday.

Cheers,

Betsy

Martin Gear wrote:
>
> Elaine Mami wrote:
> <snip>
> > Also, holiday air fares are higher.
>

[snip]

Keeping all this in mind, I’d be interested to see comments
> regarding the choice of “Presidents’ Day” weekend for a CC.
>
> Thanks –
> ^M^
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> runacc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Betsy R. Delaney
Web Mistress at large

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 

Group: runacc Message: 85 From: Ricky & Karen Dick Date: 5/5/2003
Subject: Re: CC21 Review – Part III

At 08:51 PM 5/5/2003 -0400, you wrote:

>One disadvantage is that, because the con floats in time as well as space,
>costumers cannot rely on its being on a specific weekend.

On the other hand, the way site selection is now handled, potential members
will know three years out where and when a given CC will be so they can
make plans accordingly.

–Karen

 

Group: runacc Message: 86 From: Byron Connell Date: 5/5/2003
Subject: CC21 Review: Judges’ Perspective
A few comments about the CC 21 SF&F masquerade from the judges’ perspective.

First, the judges’ table had no lights, just glow sticks for us to use as we wrote notes about the entries. The glow sticks were useless to provide enough illumination to see what we were writing. I would encourage concoms to provide lights for the judges’ table. If there is a concern about glare for the audience, the lights can be covered with a blue gel; I have judged at some cons where that was done and we had sufficient light to see by.

Second, as a judge I strongly prefer having my own set of judge’s forms rather than having only a single set either passed back and forth among the judges or kept in the hands of the judges’ clerk. At the CC 21 SF&F masquerade, there was only one set of the forms and we entrusted them to our clerk (Eileen Cates).

Third, I think the other two judges will agree with me that, from the judges’ perspective, the CC 21 SF&F masquerade MC’s performance was OK, but not great. He kept forgetting to announce the division in which an entry appeared. This was quite annoying, because judges look at an entry quite differently if it is in the Novice division than if it is in the Master division. At one point, we sent Eileen up to the podium to ask the MC to please announce the divisions. He started to do so but soon forgot our request and relapsed.

From a personal perspective, I note that the MC forgot to introduce the judges and would have not done so had we not prompted him from the table. He also did not make the usual opening comments about “no flash photography,” and so forth. Perhaps there may be less need for such announcements at a CC than at an sf con, but it only takes one ignorant neo with a camera and flash to cause a significant hazard for those on stage. Since Costume-Cons seek to attract members who had not attended CCs before, I urge that such announcements be a standard part of the instruction to the MC for opening comments (together with introduction of the judges).

Byron

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 

Group: runacc Message: 87 From: Bruce & Nora Mai Date: 5/5/2003
Subject: Re: CC Dates

> In regard to the dates, in the Midwest area, I cannot recommend February

at

> all! I was involved with a convention here in Milwaukee back in ’95 that

was

> severely hurt that year by a cold snap and snow. It sank attendance to the
> point that there was no next year and the ones in charge, including me,

had

> to pay out of our pockets for the hotel bill.
> Henry Osier

Granted February isn’t always great here either but there’s a world of
difference between “Midwest” Milwaukee (which I think of as North) and
“Midwest” St. Louis (considerably further South).

Nora

 

Group: runacc Message: 88 From: Byron Connell Date: 5/5/2003
Subject: Re: CC21 Review

—– Original Message —–
From: Charles Galway
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2003 1:35 AM
Subject: Re: [runacc] CC21 Review

>I wondered if we should list paid members? It sounds like the answer is yes (unless request >we don’t).

Why would you give them a choice?

>What is “A LOT” of money for a shuttle fare? We have shuttle service to our hotel, not >complimentary. We are aware that can be a bit of a problem, but noticed other CC’s were >outside the major city (Chicago, Atlanta) The costs per person drop for multiple riders, but >we are still working on how to try to coordinate this.

I have been happy to pay a flat $20 for a cab from O’Hare to an off-airport hotel in the Chicago area, compared to the about $50 I understand would be run up on the meter.

Byron

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 

Group: runacc Message: 89 From: Charles Galway Date: 5/6/2003
Subject: Re: Shuttle rates
We had been getting prices quoted of about $26 one-way, with additional reductions for multiple passengers. While annoying, I considered this to be acceptable, IF the hotel, food, membership, air-fares were all at a reasonable rate. (Which we’re trying to do.) We plan to post current rates later, closer to one year out. (and maybe work out a group rate.)
Charles CC-23

—–Original Message—–
From: Byron Connell <bconnel1@nycap.rr.com>
<snip>
I have been happy to pay a flat $20 for a cab from O’Hare to an off-airport hotel in the Chicago area, compared to the about $50 I understand would be run up on the meter.

Byron

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 

Group: runacc Message: 90 From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger Date: 5/6/2003
Subject: Re: CC Dates

At 10:43 AM 5/5/2003, you wrote:

>In regard to the dates, in the Midwest area, I cannot recommend February at
>all! I was involved with a convention here in Milwaukee back in ’95 that was
>severely hurt that year by a cold snap and snow. It sank attendance to the
>point that there was no next year and the ones in charge, including me, had
>to pay out of our pockets for the hotel bill.
>Henry Osier

I take it you didn’t have an Act of God clause in your contract?

Pierre

>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>runacc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

“Those Who Fail To Learn History
Are Doomed To Repeat It;
Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly–
Why They Are Simply Doomed.”

Achemdro’hm
“The Illusion of Historical Fact”
— C.Y. 4971

Andromeda

 

Group: runacc Message: 91 From: Andrew T Trembley Date: 5/6/2003
Subject: Re: CC21 Review: Judges’ Perspective

From: “Byron Connell” <bconnel1@nycap.rr.com>

> First, the judges’ table had no lights, just glow sticks for us to use as

we wrote notes about the entries. The glow sticks were useless to provide
enough illumination to see what we were writing. I would encourage concoms
to provide lights for the judges’ table. If there is a concern about glare
for the audience, the lights can be covered with a blue gel; I have judged
at some cons where that was done and we had sufficient light to see by.<

I totally spaced on lights until Saturday evening. We’ve got a small set of
battery operated lamps here at home for such things (but home isn’t
Chicago). The lightsticks were a last-minute attempt to do something. Had I
been smart, I would have first asked Ops if they had any lights available.

> Second, as a judge I strongly prefer having my own set of judge’s forms

rather than having only a single set either passed back and forth among the
judges or kept in the hands of the judges’ clerk. At the CC 21 SF&F
masquerade, there was only one set of the forms and we entrusted them to our
clerk (Eileen Capes).<

Agreed. For a small masquerade, a set of blank forms for each judge is
sufficient (I know, I just judged a small masquerade this weekend). For
WorldCon or CC completed copies with all information are necessary
(including one set for the clerk).

> Third, I think the other two judges will agree with me that, from the

judges’ perspective, the CC 21 SF&F masquerade MC’s performance was OK, but
not great. He kept forgetting to announce the division in which an entry
appeared. This was quite annoying, because judges look at an entry quite
differently if it is in the Novice division than if it is in the Master
division. At one point, we sent Eileen up to the podium to ask the MC to
please announce the divisions. He started to do so but soon forgot our
request and relapsed.<

This was a flaw in the design of the MC form. My forms were word-ifyed
versions of Alix Jordan’s ASCII text forms. Greg didn’t have that problem
the next night in the Historical Masquerade (which used different forms).

For many things the forms worked out well. This wasn’t one of them.

If I’m crazy enough to do this again (or assist someone else doing this) I
will make major redesigns in the form layouts.

> From a personal perspective, I note that the MC forgot to introduce the

judges and would have not done so had we not prompted him from the table.
He also did not make the usual opening comments about “no flash
photography,” and so forth. Perhaps there may be less need for such
announcements at a CC than at an sf con, but it only takes one ignorant neo
with a camera and flash to cause a significant hazard for those on stage.
Since Costume-Cons seek to attract members who had not attended CCs before,
I urge that such announcements be a standard part of the instruction to the
MC for opening comments (together with introduction of the judges).<

All I can guess is that Greg got his notecards mixed up. We went over
everything before the show and he had note cards with everything on it.
Don’t know what actually happened for certain.

anyway, gotta get some sleep. Just got home.

andy

 

Group: runacc Message: 92 From: Sharon Date: 5/6/2003
Subject: Re: CC21 Review – Part III

Some hotels are hostile to this weekend getting committed in advance
if it is also Valentine’s Day, and they anticipate getting some extra
holiday business from that.

Sharon

— In runacc@yahoogroups.com, “Byron Connell” <bconnel1@n…> wrote
in part:

>
> Presidents’ Day Weekend is neither a traditional “family” holiday

nor a major religious holiday, so it does not have the disadvantage
of Easter/Passover. The major disadvantage is weather, but for much
of North America that holds true for the rest of February and March.
Albany has had snow in May!

>
> Byron

 

Group: runacc Message: 93 From: Betsy Delaney Date: 5/6/2003
Subject: Re: Shuttle rates

My personal opinion is that if you publish the worst case price well
ahead of schedule, with a proviso that you’re “trying to work out a
group rate discount,” it will help to ease sticker shock for those
people who do think it’s excessive, and help them budget the extra
expense.

In general, the earlier the warning, the better the feedback. This
should be the case for any required cost. Some people may still be
unhappy, but at least they’ll know up front about the situation. And
this is just the sort of thing a PR is for.

Cheers,

Betsy

Charles Galway wrote:

>
> We had been getting prices quoted of about $26 one-way, with additional reductions for multiple passengers. While annoying, I considered this to be acceptable, IF the hotel, food, membership, air-fares were all at a reasonable rate. (Which we’re trying to do.) We plan to post current rates later, closer to one year out. (and maybe work out a group rate.)
> Charles CC-23

[snip]


Betsy R. Delaney
Web Mistress at large

************************************************************************
http://www.WebInvent.com/ * http://www.hawkeswood.com/
http://www.Costume-Con.org/ * http://www.sickpups.org/
http://www.SchoolWithoutWalls.org/
************************************************************************

 

Group: runacc Message: 94 From: Ricky & Karen Dick Date: 5/6/2003
Subject: Re: Future CC’s
OK, forget what I said a while back to Sharon about reviving the “CC in Las
Vegas” bid.

We just had friends from Denver get back from a vacation/convention in
Vegas. Thanks to 9/11 and less people going to Vegas, they said the days of
cheap food and hotel rooms are over.

*sigh* It used to be a good idea…

Baptistown, anyone?

–Karen

 

Group: runacc Message: 95 From: Betsy Delaney Date: 5/6/2003
Subject: Re: Future CC’s

I heard something fairly similar from someone else in just the past
month.

Unfortunate, too. I’ll bet the backstage tour opportunities alone would
be worth the extra expense.

Sigh.

Betsy
(who was really hoping to see the Cirque shows she won’t see any other
way.)

Ricky & Karen Dick wrote:

>
> OK, forget what I said a while back to Sharon about reviving the “CC in Las
> Vegas” bid.
>
> We just had friends from Denver get back from a vacation/convention in
> Vegas. Thanks to 9/11 and less people going to Vegas, they said the days of
> cheap food and hotel rooms are over.
>
> *sigh* It used to be a good idea…
>
> Baptistown, anyone?
>
> –Karen


Betsy R. Delaney
Web Mistress at large

************************************************************************
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http://www.Costume-Con.org/ * http://www.sickpups.org/
http://www.SchoolWithoutWalls.org/
************************************************************************

 

Group: runacc Message: 96 From: Charles Galway Date: 5/6/2003
Subject: Re: Future CC’s
Interesting, perhaps, Las Vegas appears to be trying to put it’s SF con back into motion. I just sent out an email inquiry just this morning.

Charles (who went to SilverCon III some years ago)

—–Original Message—–
From: Ricky & Karen Dick <castleb@pulsenet.com>

OK, forget what I said a while back to Sharon about reviving the “CC in Las Vegas” bid.
<snip>

–Karen

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Group: runacc Message: 97 From: henryosier@cs.com Date: 5/6/2003
Subject: Re: CC Dates

In a message dated 5/6/2003 12:14:31 AM Central Daylight Time,
costumrs@radiks.net writes:

> I take it you didn’t have an Act of God clause in your contract?

Not to my knowledge. I wasn’t involved that high up in that convention.
Henry Osier

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 

Group: runacc Message: 98 From: Andrew Trembley Date: 5/6/2003
Subject: CC23 and general questions (was Re: [runacc] CC21 Review)

On Sunday, May 4, 2003, at 10:35 PM, Charles Galway wrote:

> I wondered if we should list paid members? It sounds like the answer
> is yes (unless they request we don’t).

Paid members should be listed in each PR. That’s the way WorldCon does
it, and it works nicely. I’m not so sure about putting that list on the
website, but I’m leaning towards it. Some folks will go to a con if
they see that friends they haven’t seen in ages are going.

> Working on the masquerade for CONduit, we very rarely get the stage we
> thought we designed. Partly our fault, and partly the hotel. (I have
> worked both on masquerade, and on hotel liason.) This should not be a
> problem for CC-23 since we are planning on using a theater.

This should be negotiated either in the contract or in a secondary
signed agreement with the hotel. At something like CONduit where the
stage isn’t a major focus of the con, it’s not as bad, but as we saw in
Chicago this isn’t an area that a CC can afford to not guarantee in
writing.

> What is “A LOT” of money for a shuttle fare? We have shuttle service
> to our hotel, not complimentary. We are aware that can be a bit of a
> problem, but noticed other CC’s were outside the major city (Chicago,
> Atlanta) The costs per person drop for multiple riders, but we are
> still working on how to try to coordinate this.

Airport shuttle fare in San Jose is around $16/person. We do it for
departures (for the guaranteed delivery time), and cab it back
afterwards for $20 for the two of us.

Chicago was in Skokie (which is nearer to O’Hare than many parts of
Chicago proper). Doesn’t count. Don’t know Atlanta geography well
enough to know how they’re affected.

I guess I’m a bit jaded on things. Travel expenses are travel expenses.
Be upfront. Tell people that they’re going to have to pay for shuttle
fare from the airport to the hotel. I factor in airline costs,
taxi/shuttle costs and shipping costs. If I want to go to the con, I’ll
figure out how to pay for it.

> The hotel costs are very scary for our CC, and I would be interested
> in learning more. We did have a choice of charging more per room, and
> getting a cut rate on convention space. We opted for cheap rooms, but
> boy, it makes the hotel cost intimidating. It could make a difference
> if there are lots of cheap rooms close by. It would not make sense to
> scare everyone away from the hotel, and then not make the room-count
> price-break. If no cheaper hotels a close by, then it is safer to let
> the room rates rise a bit.

Hotel negotiation is something we all have a lot to learn about. I’m
looking towards seeing Marty’s model contract (and if he hadn’t
mentioned it I was going to ask for some real and model contracts).

Remember, in different areas of the country, hotels negotiate in
different ways. In some cases, they want a single all-encompassing
contract. In other cases, they want only the dollars/space in the
contract and you have to get everything else in a secondary agreement
and get them to sign that.

> I joined the Chicago Yahoo chat list. I thought I could learn
> something by eaves-dropping. Whatever happened at Chicago, did not
> happen on the list. (CONduit has a chat-list, and it’s used quite a
> bit, but is not considered official. Which is not to say the things
> don’t get turned into policy anyway.)

Some things happened on-list. Some things didn’t.

For successful list-based committee work, you’ve got to set a few
ground rules:
1. Responsibility must be delegated clearly.
2. If you see a hole, take it to the con chair rather than just
assuming the responsibility.
3. If it’s not your area and you have a suggestion, take it off-list
first.
4. If negotiating with other departments off-list, results must be
posted on-list.
5. Status reports must be required each month, with a defined format.

I’m guilty of not doing #4 myself on one or two occasions. After
clearing the F&SF schedule with scheduling and the chairs, I should
have posted it to the committee list.

#5 gets back to that list of areas and responsibilites we talked about
at “Build a better CC.” Without such a list it’s difficult to determine
what’s missing in any status reports.


Andy Trembley, Bull-in-Drag
The Bovine Illuminati (It’s the Cows, Inc.)
http://www.bovil.com/
Moo!

 

Group: runacc Message: 99 From: Betsy Delaney Date: 5/6/2003
Subject: Re: CC23 and general questions (was Re: [runacc] CC21 Review)

Nice segue, Andy!

Betsy

Andrew Trembley wrote:

>
> #5 gets back to that list of areas and responsibilites we talked about
>
> at “Build a better CC.” Without such a list it’s difficult to
> determine
> what’s missing in any status reports.


Betsy R. Delaney
Costume-Con Archivist
Costume-ConNections (http://www.Costume-Con.org/)

 

Group: runacc Message: 100 From: Betsy Delaney Date: 5/6/2003
Subject: Outline from the White Board at CC21
Hi, folks!

I’m taking a quick break before starting on CC11. The following raw
outline is the data from the meeting at CC21. It’s really rough, and not
terribly clear what we were trying to accomplish other than to break up
the contents of the current outline into more manageable sections. The
main sections are:

General
Bid
Before
During
After

So…

I’m also including a text version of the current online outline. Anyone
care to take a shot at realigning the content based on our proposed
structure while I finish reformatting the rest of the site? That is, if
this is the way we should actually lay out the document. I think it’s a
dandy idea, but I’m open to suggestions.

That way, we can get started making all this very useful feedback work
with the final goal.

And by the way, while I’m thinking about it…While we’re in this
process, in all ways, I defer to Karen. I’m just the coordinator here.
Karen’s word is law.

Thanks!

Betsy

—-

From CC21:

General

Accountability
Organization Chart
ConStitution
Corporate Structure
Contact Information
Timeline
* Deadlines
Communication
* Committee
* Membership
Privacy
Budget Templates
Logistics
* Facilities
* Master Schedule
* People
* Spaces

Bid

Publications/Marketing/Publicity
Hotel
Locality
Administrative Services
* Budget
* Logistics
* Membership
* Treasury/Accounting

Before

Everyone

During

After

Masquerade/Competition Directors
Chair
Treasurer
Hotel

—-
And from the web site:

Introduction

The Genesis of Costume-Con

The Name

The Organization

The Costume-Con ConStitution

Corporate Structure
* Chair(s)
* Treasurer
* Other Departments/Staffing Positions
Managing the Staff
* Selection
* Replacement
* Contact Lists
Meetings
* Agendas
* Scheduling
* Minutes
* Timeline
Contact Information
E-Mailing Lists
Themes and Artwork
Operations/Logistics
Supplies
* The Floating Costume-Con Supply “Bin”
Security Considerations
Copies & Reproduction
Signage
Budget
Policies (“Code of Conduct”)
* Weapons
* Smoking
* Parties
* Personal Conduct

Conference Hospitality Suite

Supplies
Hours
Refrigeration
Video Availability (Masquerades)
Cooking/Hot Food
Corkage Requirements
Volunteers & Assistants
Sponsors

Membership

What a Membership Includes
Categories
* Attending
* Supporting
* One-Day
* Kid-in-Tow
* Student
* Volunteer
* Special Events Access
Prices
* Rates
* Increases (and scheduling)
Registration
* Pre-Reg
* Lost Souls
* Publishing the Roster
* At-Con
* Early Pick-up (Thursday Night)
* Badges
* Badge Numbers
* New Members
Member Packets
* Pocket Program
* Program Book
* Future Fashion Folio
* Whole Costumers’ Catalog
* Freebies
* City Information
* Restaurant/Amenities Guide

Competitions

Directors/Coordinators
Science Fiction/Fantasy Masquerade
Historical Masquerade
* Rules – ICG Guidelines (Link to ICG site)
Future Fashion Show
Future Fashion Folio
Doll Contest
Other Competitions
* Single Pattern Contest
* Hall Costume Awards
* Themed Social Costume Contests
* Single Clothing Item Contests (Bra, Codpiece, etc.)
* The $1.98 Contest
* Video Masquerades
Judges
Master of Ceremonies
Certificates
Awards
Gifts/Donations
Image Records
* Photography
* Videography
* Fan Photography
Greenroom
* Dens
* Repair Table
* Refreshments
Registration
* Injury Waivers
Technical Support
* The Stage
* Light/Sound Equipment
* Pipe & Drape
* Tech Rehearsals
* Rehersal Space

Program Items

Schedules
* Workshops
* Events
* Master Schedule (including everything!)
Panels/Workshops/Demos
* Identifying
* Populating
* Registration
Extracurricular Activities
AV Equipment

Dealers

Membership Rates
What a Membership Includes
Room Layout/Considerations
Promotion
Selection

Exhibits

Supplies
Acquisitions
Labels

Socials

Friday Night/Other
Flea Market
Music/Dance
Refreshments/Cash Bar
Dances (Regency or other)

City Considerations

Holiday hours
Restaurants/Eateries
* Hours
* Availability
* Location
Amenities
Sundries
Attractions
Competing Events
Information Desk/Concierge
Transportation (car, bus, train, plain, boat, etc.)
Directions

Hotel

Choosing a Hotel
Contracts
Set-up
Room Night Pick-up
Meeting Space Requirements
Hotel Map
Pool/Hot Tub
Parking
* Availability
* Fees
Transportation
* Shuttle to local Airports & Trains

Ribbons

Masquerade/Award
Identification

Advertising

Rates
Sponsors
* General
* Con Suite
Donors

Publicity/Promotions

Flyers
Web Sites
Giveaways (Memberships, prizes, etc.)
Press Releases
conference/Conference Tables
Other sources

Publications

Scheduling
Progress Reports
Program Book
Fashion Folio
Whole Costumers’ Catalogue
At-con Newsletter
Pocket Program

Site Selection

Ballot Printing & Distribution
Site Selection Fees
On-site Voting and Counting
Validating Members
Announcements
Bid Tables/Presentations

Volunteers

Miscellaneous

Sewing Room
“Logo” Giveaways
“What is Costume-Con” information for mundanes
Lost & Found
Child Care
Fundraising
* T-Shirts
* Raffles
Charity

Wrap-Up

The “Gripe Session”
Passing on Supplies
Settling the Hotel Bill
Final Receipts & Reimbursements
Committee Membership Refunds
Pass-through Funds
Closing the Books


Betsy Delaney
Costume-Con Archivist