runacc.costume-con.org

On May 19, 2005, at 6:07 PM, Betsy Delaney wrote:

> I also agree with Andy – Chicago had such a rehearsal space. I know
> because I helped tape out the stage outline.

I forgot about that… then again, I was too busy freaking out while
waiting for Marty and Jennifer to fix the actual stage problems with
the hotel and then trying to catch up on rehearsals once those
logistics had been solved.

—
andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen – http://www.bovil.com/
San Jose, CA – ’72 R75/5 ’86 R100 (mine) – ’92 K75sa ’03 R1150R
(Kevin’s)
…remaining .sig trimmed for better message/.sig ratio

At 08:48 PM 5/19/2005 -0400, you wrote:

>As a result, I dislike arbitrary limits on the number of awards the judges
>may give, either overall or by division.

I am not singling you out, Byron, as I can find something good in just
about every costume I see, and I have to restrain myself from going
overboard on awards, especially when I’m doing Workmanship. But I would
like to use your statement as a jumping-off point for another masquerade-
and judging-related discussion.

At what point (percentage of the entrants receiving awards) should the
judges just give up and award EVERYBODY? I’m asking this because I have
seen several masquerades (including both Costume-Con and WorldCon) where,
out of a large field, only a small percentage of the entries did not
receive awards. Not unexpectedly, many of those entries had their
self-esteem and their feelings hurt. (“Gee, how bad is my entry if 85% of
the other entries got awards and I didn’t?!!”)

I think we all agree that losing sucks. But losing sucks less if you are
one of 70% that didn’t make it vs. one of 15% that didn’t make it. (The
competition was tough–you regroup and try harder next time.) Just as
winning is more meaningful if only 30% of the overall field got awards.
(The competition was tough, and you were one of the survivors.)

I am all for awarding excellence, and “I’m OK, you’re OK,” but let’s not go
overboard. If we award everybody, then we essentially award nobody.

–Karen

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

There was another consideration about Theater-space, that is sort of tech-geek, and was not discussed a lot going in.

With a black back-curtain, there is a bit more tolerance of bleed light on the back curtain. But with a cyc, bleed-light on the cyc can cause unwanted cyc-lighting. So often, when using a cyc, the stage-lights are focused off of the back, and the back-most section is not useful, since there’s no lighting on the face towards the very back.

The net effect is, that even if a stage is stated to be a certain size, it may be necessary to state what the effective useful size is.

Charles

—– Original Message —–
From: Les Roth
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 3:28 PM
Subject: Re: [runacc] Tech rehearsals from a geek point of view

For CC-24 we already have a space set aside for rehearsal in the green
room.

Our usable stage size will be 30 feet wide and 13 feet deep. Detailed
floor plans will be on the website soon.

Les

—

Live, never to be ashamed if everything you do is published around the
world. Even if what is published is not true. — Richard Bach

On May 19, 2005, at 9:51 AM, Betsy Delaney wrote:

> That space should be made available as part of the planning process
> when
> the hotel spaces are assigned. It’s not clear to me that this kind of
> space was provided at CC23 (I didn’t compete and wasn’t paying
> attention), but if it isn’t already a part of the space allotments for
> 24 on up, you may wish to reconsider the room layout and find a way to
> include it. Both the tech crew and the contestants will thank you later
> for it.

View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Actually, the green-room at the theater was pretty busy Saturday morning, with another event, or cleaning it up. And Sunday, with the FFS & Single Pattern in the morning, and Historical run-throughs in the afternoon.

And I think Dave was slightly wrong about the ball-room being available on Friday, or Saturday, since after talking to the hotel, I had the impression that the space was rented most of the day — as I was making up the pocket program. I didn’t worry much about Sunday rehearsals, since I thought most of those would not be as large or complex.

However, many demos have been done in past local conventions, outside in a roped area of the parking lot, and I didn’t even think of that. I think that would not have been a problem for our venue.

—– Original Message —–
From: Andrew T Trembley
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 3:21 PM
Subject: Re: [runacc] Tech rehearsals from a geek point of view

On May 19, 2005, at 2:02 PM, Ricky & Karen Dick wrote:
>> The problem is a perception thing. And it can be cured by providing a
>> separate rehearsal space for the contestants, away from the main stage
>> space.
>>
>> That space should be made available as part of the planning process
>> when
>> the hotel spaces are assigned. It’s not clear to me that this kind of
>> space was provided at CC23
>
><snip>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

One of things I did very early on, was a large master check-list of what needed to be done for a Costume-Con. I didn’t just put down Masquerade: MD. I included such items as pro-photo, and fan photo. I broke up video into about 5 different pieces, even though I assumed it will almost all be covered by “one” person (Carl, do we have the ordering instructions?)

But Dave was correct when saying we realized in about January that the best thing was to coordinate ribbons with everyone, three (4) shows, & dolls, &? — even though my masquerade check-list very clearly has ribbons on the list.

Some of the things I did not want to forget, were items such as “Lifetime-achievement”, a birthday, and “passing the torch” If someone had told us in advance, about any new possible awards, I would have included that, as well.

I would group all this items into logical units: i.e. events, publications, operations, etc. I then tried to link a specific person to each task, so that each action could be covered. Then, towards the last few weeks, I would double check that list, and make sure were were getting all of it done, with Dave (and Keri) making their own versions off of my recommendations.

Charles

—– Original Message —–
From: Andrew T Trembley
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 5:26 PM
Subject: [runacc] What does the MD do? (was Re: Tech rehearsals from a geek point of view

On May 19, 2005, at 3:32 PM, David Doering wrote:
> This points out one of the challenges that even RUNACC can’t always
> address–answering the questions that no one has asked or thinks to
> ask.
> For example, the question of “who orders the ribbons?” didn’t occur to
> me
> until Mid-January–my initial impression being that this was an MD’s
> responsibility and not the chair’s.

This may be an unpopular position (having watched some MDs be very
territorial about things), but my opinion is that as much logistical
work as possible should be offloaded from the competition directors at
a Costume-Con.

There are a lot of shared services used by multiple competitions. Stage
crew, house crew, tech crew and green room are the most obvious, but
pubs/printing (as in certificates) is another that’s a slam-dunk, and
Dora showed that having a common records clerk could streamline some
processes. Having an events/entertainment/hospitality group
coordinating half-time shows for the directors would also be nice.

Oh, and ribbons? The con treasurer has the checkbook. It’s cheaper and
easier to do one large ribbon order rather than separate orders from
each competition director.
<snip>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

At CC-23, the program said that one of the panel rooms would be available
as rehearsal space after programming was done for the day, but we found
that room locked up tight in the evenings.
(And it would probably have been a pain to move the chairs out of the way
and then re-set them.)
We ended up practicing in the parking lot, and it was fine, aside from
dodging the occasional car. It would NOT have been fine if it had been raining.

Practice space may be crucial for some contestants who (a) have not been
able to practice in advance of the con, or (b) may not have been able to
practice with all members of their group in advance of the con. I do agree
that the tech rehearsal time is NOT the time to be creating a presentation
from scratch; an entry should already have a pretty good idea of what
he/she/they are doing.

–Karen

That’s an interesting suggestion Byron, but when we started our bid, we recieved wildly differing estimations of attendance, and we had to ask for a counting of every single con, and their geographical location, and then come up with our own estimate. When many of the smaller conventions came up with numbers close to 200, we set our lower limit there. But for an upper limit, we wanted space for 350. And we mananged to find a space that could handle that range — but we would have needed an extra 50 pre-registrations in order to secure the additional ballroom space — pre-registrations required, before the space got sold out to other events. Recall, that we had a few minor (or not-so) events like a depression, 9-11, and possible air-line closures, between when we first bid in 2000, and won (actually awarded) in 2002, and finally held the event in 2005.

Neither Dave nor I could have absorbed an extra grand (out of our pockets) — even with the Chicago and Atlanta donations (thank you!)

For the record, I’d say that 200 attendees should be considered a minimum number to make an event like this economically viable, and it also seems to about what can be expected from the general pool of attendees. Larger metropolitan areas may get larger local attendee counts. Chicago and NorthEast seem to have a pretty good drawing area for attendees, within a days drive. Utah doesn’t really, although in theory Denver and CA are a days drive.

Charles

—– Original Message —–
From: Byron Connell
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 6:25 PM
Subject: Re: [runacc] Tech rehearsals from a geek point of view

This is why a con — as a function-heavy event — needs to plan on and budget for taking all the hotel’s function space for the duration of the con.

Byron

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> This is why a con — as a function-heavy event — needs to plan on and
> budget for taking all the hotel’s function space for the duration of the con.
>
> Byron

It may not be possible for Cc to take over all the function space of a
hotel. Depends on the size of hotel, and depends on the attendance numbers
of the CC.

Yes, ideally, we don’t want to share function space with others. Depends if
the budget can bear it. We are a *VERY* space-intensive convention for the
number of attendees we draw, especially in recent years.

–Karen

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I imagine this would only work in an area where rain isn’t expected….

9-)

Betsy

Charles wrote:

> However, many demos have been done in past local conventions, outside in a roped area of the parking lot, and I didn’t even think of that. I think that would not have been a problem for our venue.

This has been for the CONduit conventions, which very often is not raining during it’s typical season — Mother’s day to Memorial day.

Umm… and think I see your point — not every locale and season (and year) is that cooperative. My thoughts were only based on our local history.

And yes, I was very relieved when it stopped raining for CC-23.

Charles

—– Original Message —–
From: Betsy Delaney
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 12:19 AM
Subject: Re: [runacc] Tech rehearsals

I imagine this would only work in an area where rain isn’t expected….

9-)

Betsy

Charles wrote:

> However, many demos have been done in past local conventions, outside in a roped area of the parking lot, and I didn’t even think of that. I think that would not have been a problem for our venue.

View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In fact, at Calgary, three of the four entrants in the Single Pattern Contest received awards. Tina was the fourth. Of course, it felt awkward.

In the FFS/Single Pattern contests there is a long-established pattern of making only a few specific awards. In SF&F and Historical masquerades, I think the matter comes down to the judges’ standards. If they’re sufficiently high, there will not be an undue level of awards. The panels I’ve been on have tended to follow this pattern:

First, identify the Best in Show candidates (two or three, usually, unless we’ve been wowed by one that is our pick).

Second, sort the remaining entries in each division into three categories:

1. Award worthy.
2. Undecided.
3. Definitely not award worthy.

We then discuss the award-worthy entries in each division in terms of which awards to make. After doing that, we look at the Undecided group. IIRC, the panels I’ve been on have not selected more than a very few of his group for an award — possibly an honorable mention rather than an award proper.

Across regionals, Worldcons, and CCs, my feeling — which I have not tested by reviewing data — is the the panels I’ve been on have made a smaller number of awards rather than a larger number. So, while your scenario of awards to 75 percent certainly is not impossible, in my experience it has tended not to happen if the judges are sufficiently rigorous in applying high standards for each division. (Of course, this assumes that there is overall agreement among the judges on what the standard for a division ought to be, which I generally have found to be the case.)

Byron

—– Original Message —–
From: Ricky & Karen Dick<mailto:castleb@pulsenet.com>
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com<mailto:runacc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 9:45 PM
Subject: Re: [runacc] More on Judging

At 08:48 PM 5/19/2005 -0400, you wrote:
>As a result, I dislike arbitrary limits on the number of awards the judges
>may give, either overall or by division.

I am not singling you out, Byron, as I can find something good in just
about every costume I see, and I have to restrain myself from going
overboard on awards, especially when I’m doing Workmanship. But I would
like to use your statement as a jumping-off point for another masquerade-
and judging-related discussion.

At what point (percentage of the entrants receiving awards) should the
judges just give up and award EVERYBODY? I’m asking this because I have
seen several masquerades (including both Costume-Con and WorldCon) where,
out of a large field, only a small percentage of the entries did not
receive awards. Not unexpectedly, many of those entries had their
self-esteem and their feelings hurt. (“Gee, how bad is my entry if 85% of
the other entries got awards and I didn’t?!!”)

I think we all agree that losing sucks. But losing sucks less if you are
one of 70% that didn’t make it vs. one of 15% that didn’t make it. (The
competition was tough–you regroup and try harder next time.) Just as
winning is more meaningful if only 30% of the overall field got awards.
(The competition was tough, and you were one of the survivors.)

I am all for awarding excellence, and “I’m OK, you’re OK,” but let’s not go
overboard. If we award everybody, then we essentially award nobody.

–Karen

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/<http://www.costume-con.org/procedure/runacc/>

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I agree that tech rehearsal is not a time to rehearse the presentation. At Torcon, we rehearsed daily until the masquerade. In one group I was in, many years ago, we used the hotel’s roof to rehearse!

Byron

—– Original Message —–
From: Ricky & Karen Dick<mailto:castleb@pulsenet.com>
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com<mailto:runacc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 10:10 PM
Subject: Re: [runacc] Tech rehearsals

At CC-23, the program said that one of the panel rooms would be available
as rehearsal space after programming was done for the day, but we found
that room locked up tight in the evenings.
(And it would probably have been a pain to move the chairs out of the way
and then re-set them.)
We ended up practicing in the parking lot, and it was fine, aside from
dodging the occasional car. It would NOT have been fine if it had been raining.

Practice space may be crucial for some contestants who (a) have not been
able to practice in advance of the con, or (b) may not have been able to
practice with all members of their group in advance of the con. I do agree
that the tech rehearsal time is NOT the time to be creating a presentation
from scratch; an entry should already have a pretty good idea of what
he/she/they are doing.

–Karen

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 5/19/2005 8:44:21 PM Central Daylight Time,
castleb@pulsenet.com writes:

> At what point (percentage of the entrants receiving awards) should the
> judges just give up and award EVERYBODY?

In my opinion, if you have only about ten to 15 entries, either try to really
limit yourself, like one each best in their division and one BIS, unless you
have too many divisions, or everybody gets something. I was exposed to the
thought “Make sure ALL the kids get something,” but, if there are many kids, 20+,
that could be hard. I think that when you get to about 20 non-kid entries,
that’s about when to hit the point where not everybody wins. Unless, all but two
got something. Then I’d say be creative and come up with some award title.
Henry Osier
CostumeCon 28 in Milwaukee in 2010

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 5/19/2005 9:15:53 PM Central Daylight Time,
cgalway@xmission.com writes:

> but when we started our bid, we recieved wildly differing estimations of
> attendance, and we had to ask for a counting of every single con, and their
> geographical location, and then come up with our own estimate.

I like to plan a convention on the thought of “Expect X, but plan for X+50%”
If you plan for more than show up, you won;t be scrambling at the last minute
for supplies.
Henry Osier
CostumeCon 28 in Milwaukee in 2010

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 5/19/2005 11:01:25 PM Central Daylight Time,
cgalway@xmission.com writes:

> And yes, I was very relieved when it stopped raining for CC-23.

You weren’t the only one! I had many contestants asking me about shuttle
possiblities.
Henry Osier
CostumeCon 28 in Milwaukee in 2010

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

‘k, this is just a CC26 thing, but it should be exciting for Carl,
Betsy and others into archiving and our history on video.

Last week we did “Guest of Honor” interviews with the BayConTV people
for this weekend. Christine said that they would be more than willing
to run a TV station for us at CC26.

As soon as we’ve got other infrastructure issues taken care of, we’re
going to be confirming with them. What does that mean?

Well, it means not having to worry about whether there’s a VCR or DVD
player available, or if there’s enough room after the masquerade to run
the video. We’re talking all-day programmed closed-circuit broadcasts
over the hotel cable system. They’re willing to run masquerade videos,
perhaps replay retrospective slidehows and videos and also run the new
masquerade videos through the closed-circuit.

—
andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen
http://www.irlm.org/ – mailto:webmaster@irlm.org
“Anybody who takes this seriously deserves to”
— Donna Barr

At 12:30 PM 5/23/2005 -0700, you wrote:

>’k, this is just a CC26 thing, but it should be exciting for Carl,
>Betsy and others into archiving and our history on video.

At CC-6, we took over one of the cable channels in the hotel and ran “CCTV”
all weekend.
Don’t remember what all we ran, but a lot of costume epic films (and maybe
some masquerades)?

This is a really GREAT thing if you can pull it off, but like you said, it
may be a CC26 thing only. Not all hotels will let you monkey with their
cable TV systems.

–Karen

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Isaac Mizrahi once said he thought the whole fashion industry was
created and driven by sleep-deprivation, and at least exhaustion is
working for me here. Damned if I know where this idea came from, but
I’m thinking it might be a way to drive folio entries.

Project:Folio

Entrants register for Project:Folio in advance. It’s judged earlier
than the regular folio entries.

5 design briefs are written up for the Project:Folio challenges
(following dates are just dates)
Design briefs are released on the web and emailed to entrants on August
1 (yes, if they’re not online they’ll have to get friends to download
or receive the briefs for them).
Each entrant must complete a design based on each brief in a week.
Entries must be mailed or emailed by midnight, August 7

Folio judges choose a winner for each challenge and an overall winner
for the competition.

It may actually make sense to run this June or May depending when the
preceeding CC is scheduled. Probably easier to get entrants if it’s
being pimped at CC.

—
Andy Trembley, Bull-in-Drag
The Bovine Illuminati (It’s the Cows, Inc.)
http://www.bovil.com/
Moo!

In a message dated 5/23/2005 2:55:29 PM Central Daylight Time,
attrembl@bovil.com writes:

> Damned if I know where this idea came from, but
> I’m thinking it might be a way to drive folio entries.
>
> Project:Folio

I like the idea. Different and daring!
Henry

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

We also checked into cable access at the Ogden Marriott for broadcasting
the archives, etc. Unfortunately, the age of their system didn’t allow this
option for sending out our own programming. Sigh.

Dave Doering

Dave–

You can’t have everything. And trying to handle “CCTV” on top of an already
full convention schedule can overtax a committee. Andy is lucky to have
another local group where he can farm it out.

The CC-26 “CCTV” program was not without its flaws. Randy Neff had to run
up to the cable room on the top floor of the hotel and change VHS tapes
every two hours, 24 hours a day. Brings new meaning to “sleep deprivation.”

We ran films with subtitles (Kurasawas’s “Ran”), which was a HUGE mistake,
as the poor folks sewing and beading in their rooms and watching TV wanted
the films as background “white noise,” and trying to read subtitles was
distracting.

The schedule got out of whack (as it inevitably does), and there was no
“slop time” programmed in so we could try to “synch up” the schedule again.

Some of the east-coast mainstream S/F conventions (Arisia?) have been able
to run their film programs on the hotel cable system.

–Karen

At 03:01 PM 5/23/2005 -0600, you wrote:

>We also checked into cable access at the Ogden Marriott for broadcasting
>the archives, etc. Unfortunately, the age of their system didn’t allow this
>option for sending out our own programming. Sigh.
>
>Dave Doering
>
>
>
>View the Document:
><http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/>http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
>
>
>
>
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>Yahoo! Groups Links
> * To visit your group on the web, go to:
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

We also toyed with doing live internet-casting of at least the masquerades
if not more of the con. I had all the equipment to do it, but the issue was
the need for a high-speed connection–which was available but extremely
pricey at the convention center/theater as well as the hotel.

I do realize that these are not essentials, like the color zine, but would
be really cool to have.

Dave D.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Interesting. How much would you put in the brief?

Byron

—– Original Message —–
From: Andrew T Trembley<mailto:attrembl@bovil.com>
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com<mailto:runacc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, May 23, 2005 3:53 PM
Subject: [runacc] folio idea

Isaac Mizrahi once said he thought the whole fashion industry was
created and driven by sleep-deprivation, and at least exhaustion is
working for me here. Damned if I know where this idea came from, but
I’m thinking it might be a way to drive folio entries.

Project:Folio

Entrants register for Project:Folio in advance. It’s judged earlier
than the regular folio entries.

5 design briefs are written up for the Project:Folio challenges
(following dates are just dates)
Design briefs are released on the web and emailed to entrants on August
1 (yes, if they’re not online they’ll have to get friends to download
or receive the briefs for them).
Each entrant must complete a design based on each brief in a week.
Entries must be mailed or emailed by midnight, August 7

Folio judges choose a winner for each challenge and an overall winner
for the competition.

It may actually make sense to run this June or May depending when the
preceeding CC is scheduled. Probably easier to get entrants if it’s
being pimped at CC.

—
Andy Trembley, Bull-in-Drag
The Bovine Illuminati (It’s the Cows, Inc.)
http://www.bovil.com/<http://www.bovil.com/>
Moo!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

An idea I had for boosting fashion show entries would be to have a “Featured
Designer” competition. Entrants would submit their sketches for a
collection, under the agreement that if they are selected as the featured
designer, they will show their collection of X number of pieces at the
fashion show. Non-winning collections will be thrown in with the folio.
The Featured Designer does not have their collection in the folio, to
inspire curiosity for people to attend the show.

Yes, it’s a lot of work for the Featured Designer, but it would boost the
show.

Bruno

—– Original Message —–
From: <osierhenry@cs.com>
To: <runacc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, May 23, 2005 2:11 PM
Subject: Re: [runacc] folio idea

> In a message dated 5/23/2005 2:55:29 PM Central Daylight Time,
> attrembl@bovil.com writes:
> > Damned if I know where this idea came from, but
> > I’m thinking it might be a way to drive folio entries.
> >
> > Project:Folio
> I like the idea. Different and daring!
> Henry
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> —
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 266.11.15 – Release Date: 5/22/2005
>
>

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No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
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On May 23, 2005, at 5:28 PM, Byron Connell wrote:

> Interesting. How much would you put in the brief?

I was thinking of a cross between the Project:Runway briefs (relatively
short) and the design assignment briefs that Jenni posted. Probably no
more than a paragraph per brief, some much shorter.

For example, a really short brief:
Challenge #1 is to design a formal gown to wear to the royal coronation
of an aquatic principality.

—
andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen – http://www.bovil.com/
San Jose, CA – ’72 R75/5 ’86 R100 (mine) – ’92 K75sa ’03 R1150R
(Kevin’s)
“It’s not pink, it’s peach-colored. Pink is tacky.”
–Manfred Pfirsich Marie Rommel

2nd most important safety device on my bike: the one beneath my right
hand
Most important safety device on my bike: the one inside my helmet

Cool is in the eye of the beholder. Internet-casting of CC 23 events would be for the purpose of connecting the con with those not attending rather than with the attendees. That could be valuable publicity for costume-cons in general or for the next cc’s down the line. Would the con’s model releases have covered making images available publicly on the Internet?

I’m not sure there’s a great deal of utility to showing major events like masquerades live over the hotel’s video system. We want to encourage cc members to attend those events and fill the audience, not sit in their rooms where the entrants don’t hear their reactions. At Worldcons and big regional sf cons, on the other hand, the auditorium may not be big enough for the potential attendance and a live video feed would be better than an overflow room.

Using the hotel video system to replay tapes of the masquerades makes more sense, especially for those of us who are so exhausted at the end of an event that all they want to do is crash. (That’s me! I almost never get to the immediately post-event screening. The last time I felt up to doing so, I was not able to even get into the room, let alone see the screen.)

Byron

—– Original Message —–
From: David Doering<mailto:dave@techvoice.com>
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com<mailto:runacc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, May 23, 2005 5:31 PM
Subject: Re: [runacc] cool offer

We also toyed with doing live internet-casting of at least the masquerades
if not more of the con. I had all the equipment to do it, but the issue was
the need for a high-speed connection–which was available but extremely
pricey at the convention center/theater as well as the hotel.

I do realize that these are not essentials, like the color zine, but would
be really cool to have.

Dave D.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On May 23, 2005, at 6:10 PM, Byron Connell wrote:

> I’m not sure there’s a great deal of utility to showing major events
> like masquerades live over the hotel’s video system. We want to
> encourage cc members to attend those events and fill the audience, not
> sit in their rooms where the entrants don’t hear their reactions. At
> Worldcons and big regional sf cons, on the other hand, the auditorium
> may not be big enough for the potential attendance and a live video
> feed would be better than an overflow room.

You’ve got that right.

In addition to doing the interview, we also recorded some “bumps” which
reflect BCTV’s attitude about where they fit in the grand scheme of the
convention:

“BCTV! Don’t watch it!”
“BCTV! Surely you have something better to do!”
“BCTV! Help keep us in the Nielsen basement!”
“BCTV! Finish your sewing, and get back to the con!”

They do replays of a few major events (GoH presentations, masquerade
and such) and a few special programs but no simulcasts and mostly just
provide filler for when you’ve got to be in your room for a while.

—
Andy Trembley, Bull-in-Drag
The Bovine Illuminati (It’s the Cows, Inc.)
http://www.bovil.com/
Moo!

Most of you probably read this on ICG-D, but Kayta offered up a
fascinating format for a project-based workshop that, rather than
taking up a programming room for a large period of time, would be
distributed across the day or the weekend. I could see this applied to
any number of things besides dolls; for example a blackwork or smocking
panel where the end-result is a small sampler that can later be used
for reference.

Begin forwarded message:

> From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows <Kayta@FunStuft.com>
> Speaking both as a dollmaker who could give such a class as you
> mention,
> and as the person running the doll show/contest at CC26, I think your
> idea
> has merit. But I think it could not be run the way it is run at doll
> conventions because CostumeCon is a different animal.
>
> At a CC it would have to be a really simple doll, there’d have to be a
> kit,
> and the whole thing would have to fit into a regular panel/workshop
> slot. (You might have to call the doll a “Fashion Baby”, or whatever
> the
> name is for those historical dolls that pre-dated printed fashion
> magazines.) You’d just about have time to pass around a sample of the
> doll
> to be made, to get people started on their kits, and to answer a few
> questions. Then the panel would be over. The instructor would have to
> arrange to be available, like in the Con Suite, at specific times in
> the
> evenings, to answer further questions (entirely do-able). And the kit
> would have to be designed for maximum portability, like with the entire
> pattern already printed on a single piece of fabric. But at a CC it
> would
> be entirely possible to expect people to already have their own
> needles,
> thread, pins, and scissors.
>
> Stuffing such a doll, at a convention, would be the only real problem.
> I
> can’t see people wanting to drag around a pillow-sized bag of stuffing
> all
> day. But this too could be provided at the Con Suite in the evenings,
> as
> an optional part of the kit for people actually doing the sewing at the
> Con. And a no-cost stuffing tool can be made from a drinking straw.
>
> I like the idea, and think I’ll try it at CC26 (Committee willing and
> the
> creek don’t rise…).
>
> CarolynKayta Barrows
> dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian
> www.FunStuft.com
>
> //// \\\
> ////-@@\\\
> (((( 7 )))
> ((( <> ))))
> ) ((((((
> /—-\ /—\))
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

—
andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen
http://www.bovil.com/
“It’s not pink; it’s peach-colored. Pink is tacky.” –Manfred Pfirsich
Marie Rommel

At 11:45 AM 5/25/2005 -0700, you wrote:

>Most of you probably read this on ICG-D, but Kayta offered up a
>fascinating format for a project-based workshop that, rather than
>taking up a programming room for a large period of time, would be
>distributed across the day or the weekend. I could see this applied to
>any number of things besides dolls; for example a blackwork or smocking
>panel where the end-result is a small sampler that can later be used
>for reference.

It might work for beading or ribbonworking projects, too. Or cartridge
pleating. Anything that can be hand-sewn vs. machine sewn.

Sounds like an interesting concept.

As the competitions and Fashion Shows at Costume-Con have evolved (with
associated tech rehearsals, dress rehearsals, pre-judging, etc.), more and
more of the competitors’ time is eaten up with these items instead of
panels, and, sadly, trying to keep a large block of time open to attend a
workshop is virtually impossible for people intending to compete. We always
try to support the competitions, as they are the “backbone” of Costume-Con,
but we like to learn new things, too, so it can be a hard choice.

This doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t try to do workshops. But we should keep
a watchful eye on attendance to see if they are a “worth it” item.

The ribbonwork class I took from Candace Kling at CC-12 was very much
“worth it.”

–Karen

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I want to bring up the CC23 experience with various topics as part of the
pool of knowledge here on RunACC. First, the hotel contract.

I note that in this week’s Meeting News, the newspaper for professional
meeting planners, they highlight the growing trend towards “standardized
contracts” (like Marty Gear’s CC template). Major corporations such as IBM,
Bank of America, Pfizer, etc. now present hotels with their own contracts
(customized to their needs) rather than use the hotel’s.

This should mean that our presenting the CC template contract in the future
should not come as so great a surprise to hotel sales managers as it has in
the past. (Like what happened to Bruce Mai).

Second, I should mention that in our case, our sales manager wasn’t as well
versed in contracts as she might have been. This became clear after I
pointed out some absurd items (mentioned below) and she wasn’t even aware
of them.

So I took it that we have to be like partners with the hotel in working out
the agreement, rather than an “us vs. them” attitude. Because it could just
be that the sales manager really doesn’t understand the contract and needs
to review it.

We presented the CC template contract to the hotel and had a meeting with
them using the contract as talking points. In the end, we used various
parts of the template to modify their “standard contract” to match our
specific needs.

I had only a minor push-back by the sales manager in arranging this
meeting. She agreed that we should meet and make the contract work when I
explained to her the following:

“We both know the turnover in the hospitality industry. Everyone on staff
today may not be here a year from now. The hotel may have a new management
company as well. Also, Charles and I might not be in the picture (for
health reasons or otherwise). So doesn’t it make sense that the contract
stand on its own, to express what you and I agree to without you and I
having to explain what an item means, especially if you and I aren’t here
by then?”

With that, she agreed to sit down and modify her contract. As it was,
neither she nor her successor were on hand at the hotel for Costume-Con.
Instead, it was their replacement–so it was worthwhile to have things
settled ahead of time.

The absurd items I mentioned were quick to deal with. The “standard”
contract forbade us from showing their logo, linking to their site, or even
to show the hotel map to anyone without express written permission.
Finally, the “standard” contract required the con to make good on
“unsettled guest charges”.

No one at the hotel could explain why such provisions were in the contract,
since they clearly hurt our ability to hold meetings or otherwise made us
responsible for charges we shouldn’t be held accountable for.

So these provisions were crossed out or modified to correctly express our
usage needs.

On several items I ended up not fighting over. For example, the final
contract did not include the template’s provision on ice machines. I took a
survey of the existing machines, and, since it appeared that all the
machines were in good repair and clearly working, I decided that bringing
it pointedly to the attention of the hotel was enough.

The 24-hour hot tub privilege also wasn’t included because it was simpler
to agree to inform Hotel Security and the Night Manager about our using the
hot tub late nights than make a contract issue of it. As it was, no one
stayed in the hot tub later than 1 or 1:30AM, so it never became a problem.

We did include the “no corkage” provision for the consuite as well as
outside food and beverage for the dealers room. (In fact, the hotel ended
up doing us one better by sending a waiter into the room to take orders
from the dealers.)

We also agreed not to have any construction going on or elevator
maintenance scheduled. Unfortunately, they would not agree to have a
24-hour-available maintenance person, primarily because Ogden doesn’t have
a 24-hour service locally. We also figured that since the hotel only has
eight floors, and because we had put the consuite on the ground floor,
(eliminating much of the up/down work during party hours) we figured that
the provision for elevator failures was less of a priority.

I’ll follow up on room block and attrition next.

Dave Doering

CONduit ran into a similar provision in their recent standard hotel contract — where it sounded like it was not permitted to use the name of the hotel in things like publicity flyers.

The late-night hot-tub was a bit of a multi-faceted issue. Part of what made the late night tub possible, was the blocking of rooms surrounding the tub, plus the very late-night hours that the exercise room was normally open — hence access to the tub. In our very first discussion with the hotel they had said “no” on the late tub hours. But new manangement, plus the collections of conditions, allowed for extended hours.

When I have worked with hotel liason for CONduit (not recently), I try to understand what they are comfortable offering. I have the impression that the first sales-person I talk to hates to say “no”. But they might come back with extra fees, or wind up not being able to come through with everything. With something like late-night hot-tub, it helps to double-check, as time passes. In one case, the week-end manager (usually not the sales-manager) may let folks stay out later, if they don’t bother anyone.

I get uneasy if there is a reliance on just a “contract”. An example is if the hotel is sold, and new manangement doesn’t really want you there. The contract could still be binding, but they may still find a way to add costs, or make things uncomfortable. In the case of CC-23, they did want us there (the hotel was never sold), and we were able to make our expectations clear enough that neither side came out with painful surprises.

It did take us a number of iterations to get the contract written the way we wanted, and at one point they were pushing us to get it signed ASAP. But we think it was because one person was leaving, and the reason we were not rushing, is they had not been adquately cleaning up the spots that needed to be fixed. i.e. it was partly their own system slowing us down.

Someone at CC-23 pointed out that cons basically never take contracts as first written.

Charles

—– Original Message —–
From: David Doering
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 6:58 PM
Subject: [runacc] Hotel Contract

I want to bring up the CC23 experience with various topics as part of the
pool of knowledge here on RunACC. First, the hotel contract.

I note that in this week’s Meeting News, the newspaper for professional
meeting planners, they highlight the growing trend towards “standardized
contracts” (like Marty Gear’s CC template). Major corporations such as IBM,
Bank of America, Pfizer, etc. now present hotels with their own contracts
(customized to their needs) rather than use the hotel’s.

This should mean that our presenting the CC template contract in the future
should not come as so great a surprise to hotel sales managers as it has in
the past. (Like what happened to Bruce Mai).

Second, I should mention that in our case, our sales manager wasn’t as well
versed in contracts as she might have been. This became clear after I
pointed out some absurd items (mentioned below) and she wasn’t even aware
of them.

So I took it that we have to be like partners with the hotel in working out
the agreement, rather than an “us vs. them” attitude. Because it could just
be that the sales manager really doesn’t understand the contract and needs
to review it.

We presented the CC template contract to the hotel and had a meeting with
them using the contract as talking points. In the end, we used various
parts of the template to modify their “standard contract” to match our
specific needs.

I had only a minor push-back by the sales manager in arranging this
meeting. She agreed that we should meet and make the contract work when I
explained to her the following:

“We both know the turnover in the hospitality industry. Everyone on staff
today may not be here a year from now. The hotel may have a new management
company as well. Also, Charles and I might not be in the picture (for
health reasons or otherwise). So doesn’t it make sense that the contract
stand on its own, to express what you and I agree to without you and I
having to explain what an item means, especially if you and I aren’t here
by then?”

With that, she agreed to sit down and modify her contract. As it was,
neither she nor her successor were on hand at the hotel for Costume-Con.
Instead, it was their replacement–so it was worthwhile to have things
settled ahead of time.

The absurd items I mentioned were quick to deal with. The “standard”
contract forbade us from showing their logo, linking to their site, or even
to show the hotel map to anyone without express written permission.
Finally, the “standard” contract required the con to make good on
“unsettled guest charges”.

No one at the hotel could explain why such provisions were in the contract,
since they clearly hurt our ability to hold meetings or otherwise made us
responsible for charges we shouldn’t be held accountable for.

So these provisions were crossed out or modified to correctly express our
usage needs.

On several items I ended up not fighting over. For example, the final
contract did not include the template’s provision on ice machines. I took a
survey of the existing machines, and, since it appeared that all the
machines were in good repair and clearly working, I decided that bringing
it pointedly to the attention of the hotel was enough.

The 24-hour hot tub privilege also wasn’t included because it was simpler
to agree to inform Hotel Security and the Night Manager about our using the
hot tub late nights than make a contract issue of it. As it was, no one
stayed in the hot tub later than 1 or 1:30AM, so it never became a problem.

We did include the “no corkage” provision for the consuite as well as
outside food and beverage for the dealers room. (In fact, the hotel ended
up doing us one better by sending a waiter into the room to take orders
from the dealers.)

We also agreed not to have any construction going on or elevator
maintenance scheduled. Unfortunately, they would not agree to have a
24-hour-available maintenance person, primarily because Ogden doesn’t have
a 24-hour service locally. We also figured that since the hotel only has
eight floors, and because we had put the consuite on the ground floor,
(eliminating much of the up/down work during party hours) we figured that
the provision for elevator failures was less of a priority.

I’ll follow up on room block and attrition next.

Dave Doering

View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/

——————————————————————————
Yahoo! Groups Links

a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/runacc/

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
runacc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I had one of the young anime costumers that came out from CO, write up some feedback on her impressions and experiences at CC. The first part is directed at other cosplayers, but does provide some insight on how this generation thinks and feels about costuming. I’m sure that there are some nuggets of wisdom here, which can be used to help bridge the gap between the CC and Cosplay generations.

Michael

—– Original Message —–

I’m a cosplayer who survived her first CostumeCon! Or atleast that’s how I felt when I cam back from CostumeCon 23. It was highly educational but there were some things that were not very enjoyable. As one of the younger generation into costuming but coming at it from a cosplay sort of view, here are my thoughts about what cosplayers should know about CostumeCon and what CostumeCon should know about cosplayers.

I’ll start with what cosplayers should know about CostumeCon. First of all, this is not an anime convention where you can sit for hours watching anime. All day long there are panels on costuming, which are amazing, but are panels nonetheless. If you are not interested in learning about how to make a better costume, CostumeCon is probably not for you.

Secondly, it isn’t a fan-con, so there are going to be many more original costumes than you are used to. Why this may not seem important, take heed. Just because your Inu Yasha costume has absolutely perfect seams and your wig is JUST right does not mean you are going to beat the lady in the huge sparkly dress with working wings, or the giant mascot costume of the Charmin Bear that has a workable jaw. If you plan on competing, be ready to have your costume looked at as JUST a costume, not a character.

Thirdly, as I said before, this isn’t a fan con, so if you want to meet people, it is probably smarter to take the initiative and talk to people. I promise, the man with the sixteenth century military uniform will love to explain to you how he made his hat. You do have something in common with everyone at the con, and that is creativity. Everyone is happy to talk about their own creativity, so try not to be shy.

Next, when they have a panel that says, “Entering your first masquerade” that should translate to you: “Entering Your First Masquerade at a
Non-fan-con.” GO TO IT. Even if you are used to competing with elaborate skits, the nature of cosplay skits and costume presentations are pretty different. If nothing else, it will ease any anxieties you have about the different setting.

Why do CostumeCon people care about this? Well, if you want to focus on cosplayers, putting a little FAQ on the web sight for the con, or on a flyer you plan to pass out at an anime convention will be a very good idea. Which brings me to the stuff you really care about, how to get cosplayers to come to CostumeCon?

The major thing is to talk it up as early as possible. Since cosplay is a much younger crowd, they have to take finances into consideration to a much higher extent. Not only is registration cheaper the earlier you register for CostumeCon, but cosplayers tend to map out at the beginning of the year or earlier what conventions they are going to do. Randomly adding a convention even a year before hand, especially since the registration cost for CostumeCon are well over any anime con’s cost, is not going to garnish very good results. Outreach programs are the way to go, both online and at actual conventions. Seeing if you can stick a flyer in AnimeExpo and Otakon’s registration goody bags(AnimeExpo is in July, Otakon is in February) for the CostumeCon the following year would be a good idea and would reach tons of cosplayers.

However, once you start advertising early enough, you will have no problem appealing to cosplayers. Many cosplayers want to get better at what they do and don’t find very much satisfaction in panels at anime conventions, because they are normally catered to novices. Also, there are a few cosplayers already going to CostumeCon that know the cosplaying community. Utilize them to single out specific cosplayers who they know would like to come. There is a definite hierarchy in cosplay, along with massive online communication. If one key cosplayer goes to CostumeCon and loves it, a lot more will go simply because that one person recommended it.

The biggest problem CostumeCon is going to have is not getting cosplayers to come, but making them want to come back. The atmosphere of an anime con is so vastly different from CostumeCon that I felt secluded and very out of place as a cosplayer at CostumeCon. I know my friend who went to CostumeCon with me also felt the same way. I’ll try to explain the feeling and differences as much as I can, and how CostumeCon can make the transition a bit easier for young cosplayers.

The first thing that puts the cosplayer as unease is that CostumeCon and cosplayers have very different views of costuming. For cosplayers, you are recreating the character with as much accuracy as possible, while at CostumeCon, it is to create the best costume you can. Suddenly a cosplayer’s costume that was the biggest hit at their anime con is completely outclassed by almost everyone around them. That in itself is a very frightening feeling. A young cosplayer might feel even more hesitant because it comes off that the people of CostumeCon are a very tight knit group who know everyone else. Add to the fact that the vast majority are their elders by many years, young cosplayers feel very alone.

That feeling of insecurity is compounded by the attitudes of the costumers. At an anime convention, there is so much energy. If people don’t know who your costume is, they will come up and ask. Because not everyone at an anime convention cosplays, those that do cosplay, whether
their costume is the best at the con or not, will get atleast one or two compliments and questions about it.

At CostumeCon, unless the costume is particularly jaw dropping, no one asks anything about the costume. Neither my friend nor I were asked who our characters were when we were in our cosplay costumes, or commented on the costume. This gives off the impression that no one else at the convention is interested in either the costume or costumer.

If you really want to understand just how different a situation cosplayers are used to, go to your local anime convention for a Saturday. I can almost guarantee there is one near you; just this year alone seven new anime conventions were created in the US. Just type in your state and anime convention on google and see what pops up. www.fansview.com has a pretty good list of the convention dates and locations through out the year. A step even better is to volunteer at the anime convention as a craftsmanship judge for the masquerade. Most conventions are always hurting for qualified judges. Or, if you don’t want to actually go to a convention or you can’t find one near you, go download some of the cosplay masquerade tapes at www.cosplaymemories.com to also get a taste of what a cosplayers is used to.

This is not meant to sound accusatory of the people at CostumeCon. I completely understand that it’s hard to be interested in something that you know nothing about, but it does give off the wrong impression that cosplayers aren’t welcomed. This all leads to the main thing that CostumeCon can do to keep cosplayers coming back. It is both simple and yet I have no idea exactly how you would implement it.

CostumeCon needs to help cosplayers feel like they are welcomed there. To do that, it might take some educating among CostumeCon goers themselves. Not about anime or video games, but that cosplayers are coming into a very different situation than they are used to. That talking to them, making them atleast feel noticed and appreciated that they are new to the field and what they have done is a good start. I’m sure many of you have seen people who you know are new and have that look of slight fear in their eyes. Go talk to them! Tell them about your funny stories of the masquerade and ask them where their from. Especially ask them about their costume. Panels like “Meet the Novices” are all well and good, but at the end of the panel, very few people stay to actually talk with the novices, and even fewer say hello to them at another panel, or check to see how they are doing later in the con.

I am actually very optimistic about CostumeCon being a new place for cosplayers to go to learn from older and more experienced costumers. I enjoyed all of the panels that I attended at CC23. I was also lucky enough to meet Marty Gear and he kept talking with me and checking in with me throughout the convention. Even a smile across the hall was very nice. If more people had come talk to me, I think I would have had an even better time. I am planning on going to CC24, with a feeling that I have a much better understanding of what I am getting into, and determined to bring more cosplayers with me this time! You guys just be ready for us!

———-

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 266.11.17 – Release Date: 5/25/2005

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sadly, this would make two of us. The coordinator for the Single Pattern
Contest/Future Fashion Show has not provided me with a list of entries,
or of awards. I wasn’t in the audience – I was in the green room, and
with no video feed, there was no way to know who got what.

I’m going to have to get this information off of the video, assuming I
receive one…

As I requested before the con, the Costume-Con Archivist requires this
information for our records.

The same info is needed for the other competitions as well. To date, the
only one who has provided complete information (all entries and all
awards) is the Pettingers for the doll contest.

I know I have seen some of the information in the at-con newsletters,
but it isn’t complete (the SF participants are listed for the
non-awarded entries, but their entries are not).

I already have the photos in my hands. These lists are essential to the
building of the archives. If I have to get the info off the video, I can
NOT promise proper spelling of the names.

Masquerade directors: PLEASE get this information to me ASAP! And Con
Chairs: If the directors aren’t on this list, PLEASE pass this request
on to them ASAP!

I’m working on the site as soon as the newsletter goes out.

Thanks,

Betsy

——– Original Message ——–
Subject: [ICG-D] help
Date: Thu, 26 May 2005 13:36:43 -0400
From: C. D. Mami <c.mami@verizon.net>
Reply-To: ICG-D@yahoogroups.com
To: <ICG-D@yahoogroups.com>

The Archives need help
We need to know the Name & proper spelling of the costume made and worn by
Dick & Julia Hyll in the single patern costest
Thanks
Carl

Yahoo! Groups Links

Excellent! What a great report. Thanks for getting this for us, Mike.
This person (name?) is someone I very much want to meet because they have
very clear and reasonable expectations. Please tell her/him how much we
appreciate the input.
May we (or will you) forward this to the CC25 list because we already have
some plans to attract the cosplayers and some fun ideas for greeting newbies
and making them comfortable.
And I’m especially glad to hear that they had a good enough time that
they’re planning on coming to CC24 (hopefully CC25 as well).

Nora

—– Original Message —–
From: “Bruno” <bruno@soulmasque.com>

> I had one of the young anime costumers that came out from CO, write up
some feedback on her impressions and experiences at CC. The first part is
directed at other cosplayers, but does provide some insight on how this
generation thinks and feels about costuming. I’m sure that there are some
nuggets of wisdom here, which can be used to help bridge the gap between the
CC and Cosplay generations.
>
>
> Michael
>
> —– Original Message —–
>
>
> I’m a cosplayer who survived her first CostumeCon! Or atleast that’s
how I felt when I cam back from CostumeCon 23. It was highly educational but
there were some things that were not very enjoyable. As one of the younger
generation into costuming but coming at it from a cosplay sort of view, here
are my thoughts about what cosplayers should know about CostumeCon and what
CostumeCon should know about cosplayers.
>
> I’ll start with what cosplayers should know about CostumeCon. First
of all, this is not an anime convention where you can sit for hours watching
anime. All day long there are panels on costuming, which are amazing, but
are panels nonetheless. If you are not interested in learning about how to
make a better costume, CostumeCon is probably not for you.
>
> Secondly, it isn’t a fan-con, so there are going to be many more
original costumes than you are used to. Why this may not seem important,
take heed. Just because your Inu Yasha costume has absolutely perfect seams
and your wig is JUST right does not mean you are going to beat the lady in
the huge sparkly dress with working wings, or the giant mascot costume of
the Charmin Bear that has a workable jaw. If you plan on competing, be ready
to have your costume looked at as JUST a costume, not a character.
>
> Thirdly, as I said before, this isn’t a fan con, so if you want to
meet people, it is probably smarter to take the initiative and talk to
people. I promise, the man with the sixteenth century military uniform will
love to explain to you how he made his hat. You do have something in common
with everyone at the con, and that is creativity. Everyone is happy to talk
about their own creativity, so try not to be shy.
>
> Next, when they have a panel that says, “Entering your first
masquerade” that should translate to you: “Entering Your First Masquerade at
a
> Non-fan-con.” GO TO IT. Even if you are used to competing with elaborate
skits, the nature of cosplay skits and costume presentations are pretty
different. If nothing else, it will ease any anxieties you have about the
different setting.
>
> Why do CostumeCon people care about this? Well, if you want to focus
on cosplayers, putting a little FAQ on the web sight for the con, or on a
flyer you plan to pass out at an anime convention will be a very good idea.
Which brings me to the stuff you really care about, how to get cosplayers to
come to CostumeCon?
>
> The major thing is to talk it up as early as possible. Since cosplay
is a much younger crowd, they have to take finances into consideration to a
much higher extent. Not only is registration cheaper the earlier you
register for CostumeCon, but cosplayers tend to map out at the beginning of
the year or earlier what conventions they are going to do. Randomly adding a
convention even a year before hand, especially since the registration cost
for CostumeCon are well over any anime con’s cost, is not going to garnish
very good results. Outreach programs are the way to go, both online and at
actual conventions. Seeing if you can stick a flyer in AnimeExpo and
Otakon’s registration goody bags(AnimeExpo is in July, Otakon is in
February) for the CostumeCon the following year would be a good idea and
would reach tons of cosplayers.
>
> However, once you start advertising early enough, you will have no
problem appealing to cosplayers. Many cosplayers want to get better at what
they do and don’t find very much satisfaction in panels at anime
conventions, because they are normally catered to novices. Also, there are a
few cosplayers already going to CostumeCon that know the cosplaying
community. Utilize them to single out specific cosplayers who they know
would like to come. There is a definite hierarchy in cosplay, along with
massive online communication. If one key cosplayer goes to CostumeCon and
loves it, a lot more will go simply because that one person recommended it.
>
> The biggest problem CostumeCon is going to have is not getting
cosplayers to come, but making them want to come back. The atmosphere of an
anime con is so vastly different from CostumeCon that I felt secluded and
very out of place as a cosplayer at CostumeCon. I know my friend who went to
CostumeCon with me also felt the same way. I’ll try to explain the feeling
and differences as much as I can, and how CostumeCon can make the transition
a bit easier for young cosplayers.
>
> The first thing that puts the cosplayer as unease is that CostumeCon
and cosplayers have very different views of costuming. For cosplayers, you
are recreating the character with as much accuracy as possible, while at
CostumeCon, it is to create the best costume you can. Suddenly a cosplayer’s
costume that was the biggest hit at their anime con is completely outclassed
by almost everyone around them. That in itself is a very frightening
feeling. A young cosplayer might feel even more hesitant because it comes
off that the people of CostumeCon are a very tight knit group who know
everyone else. Add to the fact that the vast majority are their elders by
many years, young cosplayers feel very alone.
>
> That feeling of insecurity is compounded by the attitudes of the
costumers. At an anime convention, there is so much energy. If people don’t
know who your costume is, they will come up and ask. Because not everyone at
an anime convention cosplays, those that do cosplay, whether
> their costume is the best at the con or not, will get atleast one or two
compliments and questions about it.
>
> At CostumeCon, unless the costume is particularly jaw dropping, no
one asks anything about the costume. Neither my friend nor I were asked who
our characters were when we were in our cosplay costumes, or commented on
the costume. This gives off the impression that no one else at the
convention is interested in either the costume or costumer.
>
> If you really want to understand just how different a situation
cosplayers are used to, go to your local anime convention for a Saturday. I
can almost guarantee there is one near you; just this year alone seven new
anime conventions were created in the US. Just type in your state and anime
convention on google and see what pops up. www.fansview.com has a pretty
good list of the convention dates and locations through out the year. A step
even better is to volunteer at the anime convention as a craftsmanship judge
for the masquerade. Most conventions are always hurting for qualified
judges. Or, if you don’t want to actually go to a convention or you can’t
find one near you, go download some of the cosplay masquerade tapes at
www.cosplaymemories.com to also get a taste of what a cosplayers is used to.
>
> This is not meant to sound accusatory of the people at CostumeCon. I
completely understand that it’s hard to be interested in something that you
know nothing about, but it does give off the wrong impression that
cosplayers aren’t welcomed. This all leads to the main thing that CostumeCon
can do to keep cosplayers coming back. It is both simple and yet I have no
idea exactly how you would implement it.
>
> CostumeCon needs to help cosplayers feel like they are welcomed
there. To do that, it might take some educating among CostumeCon goers
themselves. Not about anime or video games, but that cosplayers are coming
into a very different situation than they are used to. That talking to them,
making them atleast feel noticed and appreciated that they are new to the
field and what they have done is a good start. I’m sure many of you have
seen people who you know are new and have that look of slight fear in their
eyes. Go talk to them! Tell them about your funny stories of the masquerade
and ask them where their from. Especially ask them about their costume.
Panels like “Meet the Novices” are all well and good, but at the end of the
panel, very few people stay to actually talk with the novices, and even
fewer say hello to them at another panel, or check to see how they are doing
later in the con.
>
> I am actually very optimistic about CostumeCon being a new place for
cosplayers to go to learn from older and more experienced costumers. I
enjoyed all of the panels that I attended at CC23. I was also lucky enough
to meet Marty Gear and he kept talking with me and checking in with me
throughout the convention. Even a smile across the hall was very nice. If
more people had come talk to me, I think I would have had an even better
time. I am planning on going to CC24, with a feeling that I have a much
better understanding of what I am getting into, and determined to bring more
cosplayers with me this time! You guys just be ready for us!
>
> ———-
>
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 266.11.17 – Release Date: 5/25/2005
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

Yes, this is an invaluable report and hopefully the start of a great bit of
improvement for us.

One comment from me where she states: “At CostumeCon, unless the costume is
particularly jaw dropping, no

>one asks anything about the costume.”

Sadly, this is all too true of fandom in general (but perhaps not Anime
cons). For years, the LASFS, the LA area’s big SF club, circulated a flyer
for their new members to say that these new members would be showered with
attention while they decided about joining. Once they did join, however,
the flyer said “you’ll be treated like a piece of the furniture”.

I have been to plenty of cons and club meetings where, if I didn’t make the
effort, no one said one word to me.

I am not sure why this is. Maybe it’s our shy natures that has driven us to
a hobby like costuming that excels at drawing attention. Yet when it comes
to saying hello, even a great costume isn’t enough to get us to move.

Personally, actually meeting people like Betsy, Pierre, Carl, Byron, et.
al. was intimidating as heck the first time. I knew them by great
reputation and I worried that a neo out of Utah wasn’t worth spending a
minute of time on, let alone pay attention to by these Ghods of Costuming.

So I can appreciate our new cosplayer’s feelings. And, curiously enough, it
was also Marty Gear’s kindness during ConFrancisco’s masquerade years ago
that wooed my wife and I to active costuming–like it may have for our
cosplayer. Thanks, Marty.

Dave Doering

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Betsy —

I have the names of the entrants in the Single Pattern Contest and the FFS; however, the lists I was given do not include the entry titles. I also have the running orders for SF&F and Historical. I’ll re-key them and send them to you off line.

Byron

—– Original Message —–
From: Betsy Delaney<mailto:bdelaney@hawkeswood.com>
To: Run a Costume-Con Mailing List<mailto:runacc@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: C. D. Mami<mailto:c.mami@verizon.net>
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2005 6:28 PM
Subject: [runacc] [Fwd: [ICG-D] help]

Sadly, this would make two of us. The coordinator for the Single Pattern
Contest/Future Fashion Show has not provided me with a list of entries,
or of awards. I wasn’t in the audience – I was in the green room, and
with no video feed, there was no way to know who got what.

I’m going to have to get this information off of the video, assuming I
receive one…

As I requested before the con, the Costume-Con Archivist requires this
information for our records.

The same info is needed for the other competitions as well. To date, the
only one who has provided complete information (all entries and all
awards) is the Pettingers for the doll contest.

I know I have seen some of the information in the at-con newsletters,
but it isn’t complete (the SF participants are listed for the
non-awarded entries, but their entries are not).

I already have the photos in my hands. These lists are essential to the
building of the archives. If I have to get the info off the video, I can
NOT promise proper spelling of the names.

Masquerade directors: PLEASE get this information to me ASAP! And Con
Chairs: If the directors aren’t on this list, PLEASE pass this request
on to them ASAP!

I’m working on the site as soon as the newsletter goes out.

Thanks,

Betsy

——– Original Message ——–
Subject: [ICG-D] help
Date: Thu, 26 May 2005 13:36:43 -0400
From: C. D. Mami <c.mami@verizon.net>
Reply-To: ICG-D@yahoogroups.com
To: <ICG-D@yahoogroups.com>

The Archives need help
We need to know the Name & proper spelling of the costume made and worn by
Dick & Julia Hyll in the single patern costest
Thanks
Carl

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Excellent, Byron! Thank you!!!

Any portion of information on this subject will help. Between the paper
notes and the video, I can usually put all the pieces together. All I
have right now are the newsletters, and while they are good, they aren’t
perfect!

Trivia: The CC site is constructed in running order, not in division
order. When I started doing it, the lists were based on the lists Pierre
(and Sandy?) had compiled of the entries as they appeared on the video
records. That’s why some of the name and entry spellings aren’t accurate
– hearing isn’t necessarily knowing. I’ve made at least two dozen
corrections over time to different entries as people have noticed the
errors.

I can do (and have done) similar lists, but my hearing is going, and
sometimes the sound on these tapes is simply dreadful, even for someone
with perfectly good ears. So a written record is absolutely essential.

Furthermore, there will come a time (in the not so distant future, now)
when I will not be collecting this information. Karen and Ricky will
eventually be taking the tasks over. Getting the process established now
will help when the transition takes place.

Hope this helps!

Betsy

Byron Connell wrote:

> Betsy —
>
> I have the names of the entrants in the Single Pattern Contest and the FFS; however, the lists I was given do not include the entry titles. I also have the running orders for SF&F and Historical. I’ll re-key them and send them to you off line.
>
> Byron
>
>
> —– Original Message —–
> From: Betsy Delaney<mailto:bdelaney@hawkeswood.com>
> To: Run a Costume-Con Mailing List<mailto:runacc@yahoogroups.com>
> Cc: C. D. Mami<mailto:c.mami@verizon.net>
> Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2005 6:28 PM
> Subject: [runacc] [Fwd: [ICG-D] help]
>
>
> Sadly, this would make two of us. The coordinator for the Single Pattern
> Contest/Future Fashion Show has not provided me with a list of entries,
> or of awards. I wasn’t in the audience – I was in the green room, and
> with no video feed, there was no way to know who got what.
>
> I’m going to have to get this information off of the video, assuming I
> receive one…
>
> As I requested before the con, the Costume-Con Archivist requires this
> information for our records.
>
> The same info is needed for the other competitions as well. To date, the
> only one who has provided complete information (all entries and all
> awards) is the Pettingers for the doll contest.
>
> I know I have seen some of the information in the at-con newsletters,
> but it isn’t complete (the SF participants are listed for the
> non-awarded entries, but their entries are not).
>
> I already have the photos in my hands. These lists are essential to the
> building of the archives. If I have to get the info off the video, I can
> NOT promise proper spelling of the names.
>
> Masquerade directors: PLEASE get this information to me ASAP! And Con
> Chairs: If the directors aren’t on this list, PLEASE pass this request
> on to them ASAP!
>
> I’m working on the site as soon as the newsletter goes out.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Betsy
>
>
> ——– Original Message ——–
> Subject: [ICG-D] help
> Date: Thu, 26 May 2005 13:36:43 -0400
> From: C. D. Mami <c.mami@verizon.net>
> Reply-To: ICG-D@yahoogroups.com
> To: <ICG-D@yahoogroups.com>
>
> The Archives need help
> We need to know the Name & proper spelling of the costume made and worn by
> Dick & Julia Hyll in the single patern costest
> Thanks
> Carl
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Wow, Dave! Am I really that intimidating? I had no idea!!!

Watch out – this is a rambling post, but there are salient points.

So, first, this article should be published somewhere. I’d be willing to
run it in the newsletter. It might also go well as a review on the
Archives site, though in both cases I’d like to attribute appropriately.
If the author was willing, I’d be happy to provide publication space in
both spaces.

Second, there are some very valid points, but I think it’s an endemic
problem. Some of it is shyness. Some of it is overload. The main things
I’ve found over time are that being a wallflower doesn’t necessarily get
you noticed, and that the only place where costumers aren’t approachable
in general is in the greenroom just prior to the masquerade. Outside of
those places, there are people everywhere who are happy to talk about stuff.

For me, I try to compliment whenever possible, especially if it’s
something I think is really well done, regardless of genre. And also
regardless of location. Found myself complimenting someone at the recent
Fairie fest down here (and whoops, but she’s a pro, and what do you mean
“costume”? Oh, just kidding….). I wasn’t in costume myself (having
determined that right now, it’s just too much trouble to get into stuff
and especially with weight gain, that everything I own makes me look
dumpy), so I looked the part of the admiring neo. I sometimes wonder if
wearing a badge that says “I know more than it looks like I do” would
help that attitude. Not sure.

Haven’t been to an Anime con yet. I generally don’t like the whole
genre, so I haven’t taken any pains to attend. But I do respect good
work and I do understand the character-is-all mindset that comes with
the territory. Even my stepson is deeply involved in the culture. So,
it’s hard to avoid it around here. I have been to other media cons,
though (and regardless of their opinion, a media con is a media con).

I’ve been thinking about putting a FAQ on the CC site for quite some
time now, so that people know what we’re on about, and how one becomes a
member. I’d be happy to start a list, or delegate that responsibility to
someone else on this list (which would work a heck of a lot better for
me right now), to that end.

-b

David Doering wrote:

> Yes, this is an invaluable report and hopefully the start of a great bit of
> improvement for us.
>
> One comment from me where she states: “At CostumeCon, unless the costume is
> particularly jaw dropping, no
>
>>one asks anything about the costume.”
>
>
> Sadly, this is all too true of fandom in general (but perhaps not Anime
> cons). For years, the LASFS, the LA area’s big SF club, circulated a flyer
> for their new members to say that these new members would be showered with
> attention while they decided about joining. Once they did join, however,
> the flyer said “you’ll be treated like a piece of the furniture”.
>
> I have been to plenty of cons and club meetings where, if I didn’t make the
> effort, no one said one word to me.
>
> I am not sure why this is. Maybe it’s our shy natures that has driven us to
> a hobby like costuming that excels at drawing attention. Yet when it comes
> to saying hello, even a great costume isn’t enough to get us to move.
>
> Personally, actually meeting people like Betsy, Pierre, Carl, Byron, et.
> al. was intimidating as heck the first time. I knew them by great
> reputation and I worried that a neo out of Utah wasn’t worth spending a
> minute of time on, let alone pay attention to by these Ghods of Costuming.
>
> So I can appreciate our new cosplayer’s feelings. And, curiously enough, it
> was also Marty Gear’s kindness during ConFrancisco’s masquerade years ago
> that wooed my wife and I to active costuming–like it may have for our
> cosplayer. Thanks, Marty.
>
> Dave Doering
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

At 02:24 PM 5/25/2005, you wrote:

>At 11:45 AM 5/25/2005 -0700, you wrote:
> >Most of you probably read this on ICG-D, but Kayta offered up a
> >fascinating format for a project-based workshop that, rather than
> >taking up a programming room for a large period of time, would be
> >distributed across the day or the weekend. I could see this applied to
> >any number of things besides dolls; for example a blackwork or smocking
> >panel where the end-result is a small sampler that can later be used
> >for reference.
>
>It might work for beading or ribbonworking projects, too. Or cartridge
>pleating. Anything that can be hand-sewn vs. machine sewn.
>
>Sounds like an interesting concept.
>
>As the competitions and Fashion Shows at Costume-Con have evolved (with
>associated tech rehearsals, dress rehearsals, pre-judging, etc.), more and
>more of the competitors’ time is eaten up with these items instead of
>panels, and, sadly, trying to keep a large block of time open to attend a
>workshop is virtually impossible for people intending to compete. We always
>try to support the competitions, as they are the “backbone” of Costume-Con,
>but we like to learn new things, too, so it can be a hard choice.
>
>This doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t try to do workshops. But we should keep
>a watchful eye on attendance to see if they are a “worth it” item.
>
>The ribbonwork class I took from Candace Kling at CC-12 was very much
>”worth it.”

I definitely agree with that. I still have my sample board around here
somewhere.

PIerre

>–Karen

“Those Who Fail To Learn History
Are Doomed to Repeat It;
Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly —
Why They Are Simply Doomed.

Achemdro’hm
“The Illusion of Historical Fact”
— C.Y. 4971

Andromeda

Betsy wrote: “Wow, Dave! Am I really that intimidating? I had no idea!!!”

Your natural effervescence helped me overcome that!

Also, I made the mistake one time of complementing a Star Fleet officer at
a con for a particularly fine costume. He glared at me and said: “This is
NOT a costume! This is a _uniform_.”

Fortunately, you can bet anyone willing to go to a CC is not going to be so
literal.

Dave D.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Betsy, back at CC18, I saw a need for a little something along those lines
(we were expecting a bunch of people who hadn’t been to CC before, from
dance groups and such), and created the attached. Perhaps that might serve
as a starting point.

Tina

—– Original Message —–
From: “Betsy Delaney” <bdelaney@hawkeswood.com>
To: <runacc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 12:49 AM
Subject: Re: [runacc] Fw: CostumeCon Cosplayer report!

> Wow, Dave! Am I really that intimidating? I had no idea!!!
>
> Watch out – this is a rambling post, but there are salient points.
>
> So, first, this article should be published somewhere. I’d be willing to
> run it in the newsletter. It might also go well as a review on the
> Archives site, though in both cases I’d like to attribute appropriately.
> If the author was willing, I’d be happy to provide publication space in
> both spaces.
>
> Second, there are some very valid points, but I think it’s an endemic
> problem. Some of it is shyness. Some of it is overload. The main things
> I’ve found over time are that being a wallflower doesn’t necessarily get
> you noticed, and that the only place where costumers aren’t approachable
> in general is in the greenroom just prior to the masquerade. Outside of
> those places, there are people everywhere who are happy to talk about
> stuff.
>
> For me, I try to compliment whenever possible, especially if it’s
> something I think is really well done, regardless of genre. And also
> regardless of location. Found myself complimenting someone at the recent
> Fairie fest down here (and whoops, but she’s a pro, and what do you mean
> “costume”? Oh, just kidding….). I wasn’t in costume myself (having
> determined that right now, it’s just too much trouble to get into stuff
> and especially with weight gain, that everything I own makes me look
> dumpy), so I looked the part of the admiring neo. I sometimes wonder if
> wearing a badge that says “I know more than it looks like I do” would
> help that attitude. Not sure.
>
> Haven’t been to an Anime con yet. I generally don’t like the whole
> genre, so I haven’t taken any pains to attend. But I do respect good
> work and I do understand the character-is-all mindset that comes with
> the territory. Even my stepson is deeply involved in the culture. So,
> it’s hard to avoid it around here. I have been to other media cons,
> though (and regardless of their opinion, a media con is a media con).
>
> I’ve been thinking about putting a FAQ on the CC site for quite some
> time now, so that people know what we’re on about, and how one becomes a
> member. I’d be happy to start a list, or delegate that responsibility to
> someone else on this list (which would work a heck of a lot better for
> me right now), to that end.
>
> -b
>
> David Doering wrote:
>
>> Yes, this is an invaluable report and hopefully the start of a great bit
>> of
>> improvement for us.
>>
>> One comment from me where she states: “At CostumeCon, unless the costume
>> is
>> particularly jaw dropping, no
>>
>>>one asks anything about the costume.”
>>
>>
>> Sadly, this is all too true of fandom in general (but perhaps not Anime
>> cons). For years, the LASFS, the LA area’s big SF club, circulated a
>> flyer
>> for their new members to say that these new members would be showered
>> with
>> attention while they decided about joining. Once they did join, however,
>> the flyer said “you’ll be treated like a piece of the furniture”.
>>
>> I have been to plenty of cons and club meetings where, if I didn’t make
>> the
>> effort, no one said one word to me.
>>
>> I am not sure why this is. Maybe it’s our shy natures that has driven us
>> to
>> a hobby like costuming that excels at drawing attention. Yet when it
>> comes
>> to saying hello, even a great costume isn’t enough to get us to move.
>>
>> Personally, actually meeting people like Betsy, Pierre, Carl, Byron, et.
>> al. was intimidating as heck the first time. I knew them by great
>> reputation and I worried that a neo out of Utah wasn’t worth spending a
>> minute of time on, let alone pay attention to by these Ghods of
>> Costuming.
>>
>> So I can appreciate our new cosplayer’s feelings. And, curiously enough,
>> it
>> was also Marty Gear’s kindness during ConFrancisco’s masquerade years ago
>> that wooed my wife and I to active costuming–like it may have for our
>> cosplayer. Thanks, Marty.
>>
>> Dave Doering
>>
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

———-

�WPCX

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi, Tina!

Please send the attachment directly to me. I have attachments turned off
on the list (to protect the members from random virus attacks).

Thanks!

Betsy

Tina Connell wrote:

> Betsy, back at CC18, I saw a need for a little something along those lines
> (we were expecting a bunch of people who hadn’t been to CC before, from
> dance groups and such), and created the attached. Perhaps that might serve
> as a starting point.
>
> Tina

In a message dated 5/26/2005 2:26:19 PM Central Daylight Time,
bdelaney@hawkeswood.com writes:

> Masquerade directors: PLEASE get this information to me ASAP!

Betsy,
I forwarded this off to Dora. She has the lists for the SF&F and the
Historical in her computer. Let me know if you need her e-mail address.
Henry Osier
CostumeCon 28 in Milwaukee in 2010

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

At 11:37 PM 5/26/2005, you wrote:

>Excellent, Byron! Thank you!!!
>
>Any portion of information on this subject will help. Between the paper
>notes and the video, I can usually put all the pieces together. All I
>have right now are the newsletters, and while they are good, they aren’t
>perfect!
>
>Trivia: The CC site is constructed in running order, not in division
>order. When I started doing it, the lists were based on the lists Pierre
>(and Sandy?) had compiled of the entries as they appeared on the video
>records. That’s why some of the name and entry spellings aren’t accurate
>- hearing isn’t necessarily knowing. I’ve made at least two dozen
>corrections over time to different entries as people have noticed the
>errors.

This is indeed very important and while I try to scarf up running lists and
any other data I can find at any masquerades. Sandy and I spent a lot of
time compiling the lists that we sent to Betsy many years ago, With
variable spellings, incorrect pronunciation, audio glitches and a host of
other problems, its amazing the information we compiled then was as
accurate as it was.

>I can do (and have done) similar lists, but my hearing is going, and
>sometimes the sound on these tapes is simply dreadful, even for someone
>with perfectly good ears. So a written record is absolutely essential.

As you say, even my hearing at 30 couldn’t catch everything correctly. At
48, it becomes harder.

Pierre

>Furthermore, there will come a time (in the not so distant future, now)
>when I will not be collecting this information. Karen and Ricky will
>eventually be taking the tasks over. Getting the process established now
>will help when the transition takes place.
>
>Hope this helps!
>
>Betsy

“Those Who Fail To Learn History
Are Doomed to Repeat It;
Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly —
Why They Are Simply Doomed.

Achemdro’hm
“The Illusion of Historical Fact”
— C.Y. 4971

Andromeda

And thank GOD for those lists, Pierre, or the whole CC site may not have
existed at all!

I only *just* got the last of the videos this year. The site has
existed, in one form or another, since 1997.

You deserve a huge Thank You just for doing all the pre-site footwork!

Credit where credit is due and all that…

Betsy

Since we were talking about learning judges bias’s and helping each other
form balanced panels, here’s a quick list from Balticon 05 just past.

There are no value judgements here, and all 3 judges could easily be picked
again, as long as we keep these things in mind. These come from speaking to
judges and contestants this weekend

Amanda Allen– Long time costumer worldcon winner. Likes to give awards.
Has no problem with giving 100% of the Masq awards IF warranted. Fights
for the costume first, presentation second

Heidi Hooper– Convention Artist/ some time costumer– feels awards
should be limited understands both costume and presentation

Bob Eggleton– Art Guest of Honor- wants to party, wants a show, wants to
be in charge. Places presentation first and likes humorous entries above all

It seems with a proper MD all 3 can be useful if balanced properly and
firmly explained what is expected of them.

To that, Balticon used a their own draft of the Judges instructions that I
proposed a few weeks ago, and had no problems. While the judges made some
‘interesting choices’ that might seem contrary to the instructions, the MD
was in their with them, so it must be assumed that it was in the spirit of
debate that things came down the way they did.

There was not much grousing about awards at all ,other than an odd title
here and there. I’m not really clear on what percentage of entries got awards.

Ricky

Once I get the award list back from Steve or someone I will be happy to
give you all the stats. For reasons that some of you are aware of, I
did not stay at the con on Sunday to pick up all of the paperwork.

Regarding Ricky’s comments about the judges, here is my $0.02. Amanda &
Heidi balanced each other pretty well. Both are fair but come at the
judging from different perspectives. Bob Eggleton is one of my favorite
people and a great artist, but I would use him only sparingly. He
spotted a couple of things that the other two missed, particularly in
the anime costumes. I was in with the judges, I did give them each my
first pass at Ricky’s instructions which I phrased as my “Notes to the
Judges.” When we get the award list posted, you will note that they did
not award a “Best in Class” in the master division. This was because
there were three costumes that were totally different and equally strong
and they just didn’t want to play “paper-sissors-rock” to name one of
them Best-in-Class. For a number of reasons, I didn’t want to force the
issue so I let it go. Over all, I was quite satisfied with the judging,
and I think that giving the judges my “Notes” in advance was a good idea.

Marty

Ricky & Karen Dick wrote:

>Since we were talking about learning judges bias’s and helping each other
>form balanced panels, here’s a quick list from Balticon 05 just past.
>
>There are no value judgments here, and all 3 judges could easily be picked
>again, as long as we keep these things in mind. These come from speaking to
>judges and contestants this weekend
>
>
>Amanda Allen– Long time costumer worldcon winner. Likes to give awards.
>Has no problem with giving 100% of the Masq awards IF warranted. Fights
>for the costume first, presentation second
>
>Heidi Hooper– Convention Artist/ some time costumer– feels awards
>should be limited understands both costume and presentation
>
>Bob Eggleton– Art Guest of Honor- wants to party, wants a show, wants to
>be in charge. Places presentation first and likes humorous entries above all
>
>
>
>
> It seems with a proper MD all 3 can be useful if balanced properly and
>firmly explained what is expected of them.
>
>To that, Balticon used a their own draft of the Judges instructions that I
>proposed a few weeks ago, and had no problems. While the judges made some
>’interesting choices’ that might seem contrary to the instructions, the MD
>was in their with them, so it must be assumed that it was in the spirit of
>debate that things came down the way they did.
>
>There was not much grousing about awards at all ,other than an odd title
>here and there. I’m not really clear on what percentage of entries got awards.
>
>Ricky
>
>
>
>
>
>View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

At 04:42 PM 5/31/2005 -0400, you wrote:

>Bob Eggleton is one of my favorite people and a great artist, but I would
>use him only sparingly.

Good artist-type masquerade judges usually have good/detailed costuming IN
THEIR ART.
(Examples: Michael Whelan, David Cherry.)

If you have an artist, author, or celebrity judge who is more eager to get
back to the hotel bar than the judging chamber, I suggest assigning them
the job of picking their favorite thing out of the masquerade (and giving
it “Judge’s Choice” or “Guest of Honor’s Choice” or whatever you want to
name it), and then letting the rest of the judging panel deal with
everything else. This works better if you started with a panel of 5 judges
vs. 3 judges.

If the artist, author, or celebrity judge is really into it and wants to go
through the whole process, then by all means go for it (with maybe some
gentle guidance from the head judge or MD if the celebrity is too far out
in left field).

–Karen

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ricky,
Have you had any problems with GoH’s being Masq Judges, especially
with schedule conflicts?

Henry Osier
CostumeCon 28 in Milwaukee in 2010

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The worst experience we’ve had (not as an MD, but as Toastmaster and Head
Judge at a media con) was a celebrity judge who went out to dinner with
friends and did not come back at the appointed time to judge the
masquerade. The MD chose to wait until the celebrity returned and then
started the masquerade late. I’m not sure that was the proper course of action.

Some cons take the whole judging panel out to dinner before the masquerade
so they KNOW where they are. Smaller cons may not be able to afford this,
but it does work.

Possible scheduling conflicts should be worked out with the GOH judge and /
or Programming BEFORE the con. And maybe somebody should ask the GOH or
celebrity judge if they reallyreallyreally want to judge, or are just
saying “OK” to be polite.

–Karen

At 05:29 PM 5/31/2005 -0400, you wrote:

>Ricky,
> Have you had any problems with GoH’s being Masq Judges, especially
>with schedule conflicts?
>
> Henry Osier
> CostumeCon 28 in Milwaukee in 2010
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>View the Document:
><http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/>http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
>
>
>
>
>———-
>Yahoo! Groups Links
> * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> *
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/runacc/>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/runacc/
> *
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> *
> <mailto:runacc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>runacc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> *
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>Yahoo! Terms of Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]