runacc.costume-con.org

Hi, folks!

Just a quick message to let you know:

I’ve just added Michael Bruno and Byron Connell to the list.

If you want to recommend adding someone to the list, requests should go
to me, (at least for the short term, subject to change at some point).

If you’re on this list and you didn’t intend to be, or don’t want to
stay, let me know and I’ll remove your email addy.

You can manipulate a lot of what the group can do for you by visiting
the Yahoo Groups page. This includes setting calendar items, uploading
files, reading archives, and so on.

If you have any questions, please let me know!

Thanks,

Betsy
—
—
Betsy R. Delaney
Web Mistress at large

************************************************************************
http://www.WebInvent.com/ * http://www.hawkeswood.com/
http://www.Costume-Con.org/ * http://www.sickpups.org/
http://www.SchoolWithoutWalls.org/
************************************************************************

However, when we need to be brief, such as with the mundane press, on a

>flyer, or in an ad, what would be most appropriate?
>

How about ignoring descriptives totally, and opting for something along the
lines of, “Costumers of every skill level and a wide variety of costume
interests. These fields of interest may include…………..”

Elaine

_________________________________________________________________
MSN 9 Dial-up Internet Access fights spam and pop-ups � now 3 months FREE!
http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/

Hi, folks!

I’ve added Karen as a full moderator for the group. Requests to add,
remove, etc. can now go to either of us.

Cheers,

Betsy
—
—
Betsy R. Delaney
Web Mistress at large

************************************************************************
http://www.WebInvent.com/ * http://www.hawkeswood.com/
http://www.Costume-Con.org/ * http://www.sickpups.org/
http://www.SchoolWithoutWalls.org/
************************************************************************

As most of you probably know, Ricky and I are running the Fashion Design
Contest for CC-23.

I really could use address lists of designers who have participated in the
last two contests, in the hopes we can do a mailing to them to jump-start
the contest. I don’t have the last two Folios within easy reach (they’re in
the house…somewhere).

Henry and Trudy, if you could contact the people on your committees who ran
the Folio for you and see if they can get address lists to me, that would
be GREAT!

Fran Evans has supplied me with her address list of designers, but some of
the addresses on it are known to be old and need to be verified. My own
address list dates to Costume-Con 9, so it is even older than Fran’s and
probably even more unreliable.

Any help anyone can give would be greatly appreciated. We’ll be flyering
other conventions, too, but doing a direct mailing to known designers is
probably going to reap the most benefits at this point.

–Karen

What about “Costume enthusiast”?

Bruce

—– Original Message —–
From: “Betsy Delaney” <bdelaney@hawkeswood.com>
To: <runacc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 12:56 AM
Subject: Re: [runacc] Avocational vs. Hobbyist

> Not to plagiarize, but here’s what the ICG lists on their site:
>
> “We welcome everyone with an interest in the art of costuming – from
> concept to assembly to display and all stages in between – in all areas
> of costume. Our members include historic reenactors, professional,
> educational and community theatrical costumers, science fiction
> fans,renaissance festival participants, and a vast array of others who
> are interested in the making, wearing and display of costume.”
>
> It isn’t the shortest sentence in the world, but it does convey the
> important stuff. Some tweaking to allow for “original” text might be
> good, and it could, in theory, be shortened, but if you’re sending out a
> press release, that’s how I’d phrase it.
>
> I recall sitting in the lobby at the Lord Baltimore talking to a
> reporter just after the Fashion Show at CCXV, explaining who we were. It
> took quite some time. Fortunately, I had Bridget Landry and Vicki Warren
> wander by – a rocket scientist and nuclear physicist respectively. It
> was a prime example of the reach we have, and the ecclectic composition
> of our crowd.
>
> I’d emphasize the crossroads theme when talking about the different
> aspects of our community, to bring focus to that theme. And for a deeper
> explanation, you can always point them to your web site and to mine,
> which contains an excellent explanation of our history at:
>
> http://www.Costume-Con.org/genesis.shtml
>
> -b
>
> David Doering wrote:
> >
> > >Henry wrote: “We shouldn’t try to label who comes to CC’s.”
> >
> > Betsy wrote: “I don’t think we should even try to reduce the kind of
people
> > Costume-Con attracts to one label…”
> >
> > Don’t get me wrong. I too want every kind of costumer–Royal Court,
Middle
> > Eastern, Furry, Anime, Historical–to come. I also don’t want to label
any
> > group as “the chosen ones” versus the “groundlings.” Hence our
“crossroads”
> > theme for CC23.
> >
> > However, when we need to be brief, such as with the mundane press, on a
> > flyer, or in an ad, what would be most appropriate?
> >
> > Dave D.
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
> >
> >
> > *Yahoo! Groups Sponsor*
> > ADVERTISEMENT
> >
<http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129j4fok1/M=298184.5022502.6152625.3001176/D=gr
oups/S=1707300337:HM/EXP=1088643671/A=2164339/R=0/SIG=11e2d64in/*http://www.
netflix.com/Default?mqso=60183348>
> >
> >
> > ————————————————————————
> > *Yahoo! Groups Links*
> >
> > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/runacc/
> >
> > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > runacc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > <mailto:runacc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
> >
> > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
> >
> >
>
> —
> —
> Betsy R. Delaney
> Web Mistress at large
>
> ************************************************************************
> http://www.WebInvent.com/ * http://www.hawkeswood.com/
> http://www.Costume-Con.org/ * http://www.sickpups.org/
> http://www.SchoolWithoutWalls.org/
> ************************************************************************
>
>
>
> View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

Karen –

Steve Swope and Karen Heim ran our Folio. Karen would probably be the best
bet for the addresses, since she’s the one who mailed them all out.

Trudy

>From: Ricky & Karen Dick <castleb@pulsenet.com>
>Reply-To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
>To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [runacc] Need Fashion Design Contest Help
>Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2004 13:04:54 -0400
>
>As most of you probably know, Ricky and I are running the Fashion Design
>Contest for CC-23.
>
>I really could use address lists of designers who have participated in the
>last two contests, in the hopes we can do a mailing to them to jump-start
>the contest. I don’t have the last two Folios within easy reach (they’re in
>the house…somewhere).
>
>Henry and Trudy, if you could contact the people on your committees who ran
>the Folio for you and see if they can get address lists to me, that would
>be GREAT!
>
>Fran Evans has supplied me with her address list of designers, but some of
>the addresses on it are known to be old and need to be verified. My own
>address list dates to Costume-Con 9, so it is even older than Fran’s and
>probably even more unreliable.
>
>Any help anyone can give would be greatly appreciated. We’ll be flyering
>other conventions, too, but doing a direct mailing to known designers is
>probably going to reap the most benefits at this point.
>
>–Karen
>

Hi, guys –

We did the one for CC 21 – we’ll see if we can get the list off the old
computer.

P & S

At 12:04 PM 7/5/2004, you wrote:

>As most of you probably know, Ricky and I are running the Fashion Design
>Contest for CC-23.
>
>I really could use address lists of designers who have participated in the
>last two contests, in the hopes we can do a mailing to them to jump-start
>the contest. I don’t have the last two Folios within easy reach (they’re in
>the house…somewhere).
>
>Henry and Trudy, if you could contact the people on your committees who ran
>the Folio for you and see if they can get address lists to me, that would
>be GREAT!
>
>Fran Evans has supplied me with her address list of designers, but some of
>the addresses on it are known to be old and need to be verified. My own
>address list dates to Costume-Con 9, so it is even older than Fran’s and
>probably even more unreliable.
>
>Any help anyone can give would be greatly appreciated. We’ll be flyering
>other conventions, too, but doing a direct mailing to known designers is
>probably going to reap the most benefits at this point.
>
>–Karen
>
>
>
>
>View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

“Those Who Fail To Learn History
Are Doomed to Repeat It;
Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly —
Why They Are Simply Doomed.

Achemdro’hm
“The Illusion of Historical Fact”
— C.Y. 4971

Andromeda

Thanks!

I have a list of about 100 names from Fran Evans. Currently trying to
update / verify some of the addresses before doing a mailing. And I’m sure
there are names that should be on there that are not on there yet. (Her
list is several years old.)

–Karen

At 10:39 PM 7/5/2004 -0500, you wrote:

>Hi, guys –
>
>We did the one for CC 21 – we’ll see if we can get the list off the old
>computer.
>
>P & S

Thanks!

I’ll drop her an email.

–Karen

At 10:39 PM 7/5/2004 -0400, you wrote:

>Karen –
>
>Steve Swope and Karen Heim ran our Folio. Karen would probably be the best
>bet for the addresses, since she’s the one who mailed them all out.
>
>Trudy

I am forwarding this because I feel we should all go look at these links (I
did).

I can’t explain it, but the energy I “feel” in these photos (especially in
the second link) reminds me of the media cons I attended in the 70’s, the
Comic-Con masquerade when the con first started to get big in the 80’s, and
the big WorldCon masquerades of the 80’s. I’m especially impressed with the
“mecha” suits.

I don’t know how, but Costume-Con REALLY needs to court these kids. The
anime cons could now be the feeder system for us that the S/F cons are not.

Good re-creation costuming from media sources is still good costuming.

–Karen

>X-eGroups-Return:
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>Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 20:57:51 -0700
>Subject: [ICG-D] Anime Expo Masquerade Winners
>Reply-To: ICG-D@yahoogroups.com
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>
>I didn’t go to this, but I looked at the winners just out of curiousity, and
>because it’s one of the bigger anime masquerades. I wish the pictures were
>better, as the Rose of Versailles group looks really REALLY neat..but I
>figured many of us might like some of the work that went into these
>costumes.
>
>http://www.fansview.com/2004/animeexpo/axcosp.htm
>
>Here’s some individuals of each group as they came off the stage. Some
>better pictures than on the winners’ page..
>
>http://www.fansview.com/2004/animeexpo/ax04c.html
>
>Overall, just very cool stuff to look at…and good reference for me, as I’m
>taking on the anime end of things next year…
>
>Dany
>-already has some of the material in fact..
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

In a message dated 7/5/2004 10:50:14 PM Central Daylight Time,
costumrs@radiks.net writes:

> We did the one for CC 21 – we’ll see if we can get the list off the old
> computer.

Pierre & Sandy,
Don’t worry. I have the PreReg list on my computer and e-mailed it to
Karen.
Henry

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Bruce & Nora Mai wrote:

> What about “Costume enthusiast”?

Great phrase; I use it in some of my own copy.

andy

I can’t recall for certain, but I think I saw the term “enthusiast” on the “Threads” web-site, as well.

Charles

—– Original Message —–
From: Bruce & Nora Mai

What about “Costume enthusiast”?

Bruce

>

——————————————————————————
Yahoo! Groups Links

a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/runacc/

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
runacc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>I’m excited! I like Elaine’s “Costumers of every skill level…” as well
>as Bruce and Nora’s “Costume Enthusiast.” The former readily works for the
>general press while the latter works for furry, anime, historical, and
>SF/F fen.

Dave Doering
CC23

And they have the added advantage of covering those who compete, those
who costume for other events, and those who like to look at costumes but
don’t make or wear them.

Cool!

Betsy

David Doering wrote:

>
> >I’m excited! I like Elaine’s “Costumers of every skill level…” as well
> >as Bruce and Nora’s “Costume Enthusiast.” The former readily works for
> the
> >general press while the latter works for furry, anime, historical, and
> >SF/F fen.
>
> Dave Doering
> CC23

—
—
Betsy R. Delaney
Web Mistress at large

************************************************************************
http://www.WebInvent.com/ * http://www.hawkeswood.com/
http://www.Costume-Con.org/ * http://www.sickpups.org/
http://www.SchoolWithoutWalls.org/
************************************************************************

—
—
Betsy R. Delaney
Web Mistress at large

************************************************************************
http://www.WebInvent.com/ * http://www.hawkeswood.com/
http://www.Costume-Con.org/ * http://www.sickpups.org/
http://www.SchoolWithoutWalls.org/
************************************************************************

At 12:10 AM 7/6/2004, you wrote:

>I am forwarding this because I feel we should all go look at these links (I
>did).
>
>I can’t explain it, but the energy I “feel” in these photos (especially in
>the second link) reminds me of the media cons I attended in the 70’s, the
>Comic-Con masquerade when the con first started to get big in the 80’s, and
>the big WorldCon masquerades of the 80’s. I’m especially impressed with the
>”mecha” suits.
>
>I don’t know how, but Costume-Con REALLY needs to court these kids. The
>anime cons could now be the feeder system for us that the S/F cons are not.
>
>Good re-creation costuming from media sources is still good costuming.

Oh, yes. The best of these could compete right at the top now. Some need
work, but they obviously have the energy and just need some skill building.
Perfect for a C-C. Unfortunately, we don’t have any of these cons near us.
(Des Moines is closest). Where we can, we should probably try to attend
some of these cons and promote C-C whether we’re anime fans or not.

Pierre

>–Karen
>
> >
> >I didn’t go to this, but I looked at the winners just out of curiousity, and
> >because it’s one of the bigger anime masquerades. I wish the pictures were
> >better, as the Rose of Versailles group looks really REALLY neat..but I
> >figured many of us might like some of the work that went into these
> >costumes.
> >
> >http://www.fansview.com/2004/animeexpo/axcosp.htm
> >
> >Here’s some individuals of each group as they came off the stage. Some
> >better pictures than on the winners’ page..
> >
> >http://www.fansview.com/2004/animeexpo/ax04c.html
> >
> >Overall, just very cool stuff to look at…and good reference for me, as I’m
> >taking on the anime end of things next year…
> >
> >Dany
> >-already has some of the material in fact..

“Those Who Fail To Learn History
Are Doomed to Repeat It;
Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly —
Why They Are Simply Doomed.

Achemdro’hm
“The Illusion of Historical Fact”
— C.Y. 4971

Andromeda

Byron and I accidentally found ourselves at an anime con 2-3 years ago. We went down to NJ for a Sick Pups meeting, and when we walked into our hotel’s lobby it was full of young people in “strange” costumes. Since we were looking very mundane, and are no longer exactly young, we got some looks from the kids, and an apologetic look from the hotel desk clerk. When I asked “Is there an anime con here this weekend” and everyone obviously expected me to be disgusted, the whole atmosphere changed immediately when I loudly said, “Oh, NEAT!!”. I was quite struck with the quality of some of the costumes – there was one young lady who had the most wonderful set of etched lucite dragonfly wings that particularly struck my fancy because of the workmanship.

The real problem, for me, is that I don’t know anything about anime – I don’t know who the “characters” are, so the costumes have no reference point. My last contact was Astro Boy, and that was a LONG time ago. It wasn’t called anime back then, either. Some of our costume fans out there are at least somewhat into the anime scene. What would be a big help for those of us who feel that it looks interesting, but don’t know where to get started, would be some pointers on the right direction(s) to get started. Personally, I’m not very interested in cutesy Power Puff Girls or strange little Pokemon critters, but I’ve seen some books/comics at our local bookstore in the anime section that have illos that looked more to my taste – a more realistic style of illustration, rather that bizarre, juvenile or distorted body types. BTW, does “A Distant Soil” fall into this category, or is that just a fantasy comic?

So tell me, where should a total anime neo start?

Tina

—– Original Message —–
From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger<mailto:costumrs@radiks.net>
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com<mailto:runacc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 5:53 PM
Subject: Re: [runacc] Anime Expo Masquerade Winners

Oh, yes. The best of these could compete right at the top now. Some need
work, but they obviously have the energy and just need some skill building.
Perfect for a C-C. Unfortunately, we don’t have any of these cons near us.
(Des Moines is closest). Where we can, we should probably try to attend
some of these cons and promote C-C whether we’re anime fans or not.

Pierre

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Jul 8, 2004, at 4:38 AM, Christine Connell wrote:

> So tell me, where should a total anime neo start?

can I shift this over to ICG-D? it’s a bit far off-charter for RunACC…

—
andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen – http://www.bovil.com/
San Jose, CA – ’72 R75/5 ’86 R100 (mine) – ’92 K75sa ’03 R1150R
(Kevin’s)
…remaining .sig trimmed for better message/.sig ratio

Andy —

Tina’s not on ICG-D.

Sorry,

Byron

—– Original Message —–
From: Andrew T Trembley<mailto:attrembl@bovil.com>
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com<mailto:runacc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 7:11 PM
Subject: Re: [runacc] Anime Expo Masquerade Winners

On Jul 8, 2004, at 4:38 AM, Christine Connell wrote:
> So tell me, where should a total anime neo start?

can I shift this over to ICG-D? it’s a bit far off-charter for RunACC…

—
andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen – http://www.bovil.com/<http://www.bovil.com/>
San Jose, CA – ’72 R75/5 ’86 R100 (mine) – ’92 K75sa ’03 R1150R
(Kevin’s)
…remaining .sig trimmed for better message/.sig ratio

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Jul 8, 2004, at 5:19 PM, Byron Connell wrote:

> Andy —
>
> Tina’s not on ICG-D.

‘k, it’s just as a list moderator myself I can’t in good conscience
respond to the post on this list.

—
andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen – http://www.bovil.com/
San Jose, CA – ’72 R75/5 ’86 R100 (mine) – ’92 K75sa ’03 R1150R
(Kevin’s)
…remaining .sig trimmed for better message/.sig ratio

I think it’s fairly relevant here because we keep saying we have to get the
anime people interested in CCs and a number of us don’t have a clue where to
start. While we might have an interest in anime, we’ve never been to one of
their cons, and aren’t sure how to approach this “new” type of fandom. I’d
say we’re asking for how to get started because we really want to hook up
with the anime fans on their own turf.

Nora

—– Original Message —–
From: “Andrew T Trembley” <attrembl@bovil.com>
> ‘k, it’s just as a list moderator myself I can’t in good conscience
> respond to the post on this list.

And some of us did anime stuff “in the day” 15-20 years ago (when it was
still going by the un-PC label of “Japanimation”), but have NO idea what’s
current now.

–Karen

At 08:51 PM 7/8/2004 -0500, you wrote:

>I think it’s fairly relevant here because we keep saying we have to get the
>anime people interested in CCs and a number of us don’t have a clue where to
>start. While we might have an interest in anime, we’ve never been to one of
>their cons, and aren’t sure how to approach this “new” type of fandom. I’d
>say we’re asking for how to get started because we really want to hook up
>with the anime fans on their own turf.
>
>Nora
>—– Original Message —–
>From: “Andrew T Trembley” <attrembl@bovil.com>
> > ‘k, it’s just as a list moderator myself I can’t in good conscience
> > respond to the post on this list.
>
>
>
>
>View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

‘k, so I had a second request…

On Jul 8, 2004, at 4:38 AM, Christine Connell wrote:
> The real problem, for me, is that I don’t know anything about anime –
> I don’t know who the “characters” are, so the costumes have no
> reference point. My last contact was Astro Boy, and that was a LONG
> time ago. It wasn’t called anime back then, either. Some of our
> costume fans out there are at least somewhat into the anime scene.
> What would be a big help for those of us who feel that it looks
> interesting, but don’t know where to get started, would be some
> pointers on the right direction(s) to get started.

“Anime,” not surprisingly, is from the French. Japanese picks up
loanwords like nobody’s business. The Japanese adopted it to refer to
animated TV series, video series (OAV “original animation video” is a
acronym you’ll see) and feature films.

The sheer volume of anime being produced will prevent you from ever
knowing all the characters. More than half of our (extensive) video
collection is anime, and we’ve barely scratched the surface.

> Personally, I’m not very interested in cutesy Power Puff Girls or
> strange little Pokemon critters, but I’ve seen some books/comics at
> our local bookstore in the anime section that have illos that looked
> more to my taste – a more realistic style of illustration, rather that
> bizarre, juvenile or distorted body types.

There is a great deal of variation in character designs and art styles.
Sometimes “chibi” (cute) character designs belie a much darker and
sophisticated story than you would expect. The original Japanese
version of “Sailor Moon” is a lot rougher than any American cartoon
directed at 12-year-olds would be (and the Americanized DiC version
ended up being).

While it is generally true that most anime is based on popular manga
(comic books) some anime features and series are based on video games
and some are original stories. “Vision of Escaflowne” was first a TV
series and “Tenchi Muyo” first appeared as an OAV; the manga followed.

A great deal of anime features teenagers as main characters in “coming
of age” stories. Not all, mind you, but it’s the most common formula.

Oh, a bit on terminology and classification:
Manga publishers break things down into market segments, and that’s how
manga is classified (not by genre). “Shounen manga” is manga marketed
to (teenage) boys. “Shoujo manga” is marketed to (teenage) girls. Those
are the largest categories, but there are more.

Niche markets sometimes do include genre. Pornographic comics for men
are “Ecchi manga” or “eromanga” and homoerotic comics for men are “gay
manga.” Male/male homoerotic comics for women and girls are “boys love
manga.” Go fig…

This can all get a bit confusing. Studio Clamp’s stylish, violent,
drenched in blood “X/1999” is shoujo manga because it appeared
originally in a shoujo manga magazine. Rumiko Takahashi’s romance and
relationship oriented martial arts farce is shounen manga because it
appeared in a shounen manga magazine.

Anime doesn’t have these distinctions, particularly televised anime.
All TV screens are the same.

> BTW, does “A Distant Soil” fall into this category, or is that just a
> fantasy comic?

ADS is very definitely a fantasy comic; it’s not Japanese, so it’s not
manga, and it’s a comic book so it’s not anime.

> So tell me, where should a total anime neo start?

You could start with the titles on AnimeOnDVD’s essential collection
list
http://www.animeondvd.com/discdata/essential/index.php
Not that I agree with all of their recommendations. I hated “Record of
Lodoss War” (6 1/2 hours of my life wasted, and not well). Don’t watch
“Excel Saga” until you’ve watched a lot of anime. It’s incredibly dense
“aniparo” (anime parody) and without a good grounding in anime, manga
and Japanese culture you’ll lose most of it. AnimeOnDVD is an excellent
resource, and I 90% trust the team’s reviews.

The works of Hayao Miyazaki are modern classics
http://www.nausicaa.net/miyazaki/

Osamu Tezuka is probably the biggest name ever in anime and manga.
You’ll recognize some of his work. You’ve seen it.
http://en.tezuka.co.jp/

Rumiko Takashi is “The Princess of Manga”. Her “Ranma 1/2,” “Inu
Yasha,” “Maison Ikoku” and “Lum” (“Urusei Yatsura” or “Those Annoying
Aliens”) are incredibly popular. Mind you, I never liked “Maison
Ikoku.” I adore the rest.
http://furinkan.com/takahashi/

Buy a copy of “The Anime Companion” and “Anime Essentials” by Gilles
Poitras
http://www.koyagi.com/index.html
Trust me. “The Anime Companion” is subtitled “What’s Japanese in
Japanese Animation” and it’s a great supporting work.

—
andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen
http://www.irlm.org/ – mailto:webmaster@irlm.org
“Anybody who takes this seriously deserves to”
— Donna Barr

In a message dated 7/8/2004 7:31:22 PM Central Daylight Time,
attrembl@bovil.com writes:

> >Tina’s not on ICG-D.
>
> ‘k, it’s just as a list moderator myself I can’t in good conscience
> respond to the post on this list.

Andy,
E-mail Tina directly and cc it to the ICG-D if you think others would be
interested.
Henry

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Jul 8, 2004, at 7:43 PM, Ricky & Karen Dick wrote:

> And some of us did anime stuff “in the day” 15-20 years ago (when it
> was
> still going by the un-PC label of “Japanimation”), but have NO idea
> what’s
> current now.

What’s current? If you like dubbed versions, there is a lot on TV. I’ll
mark (*) the ones I particularly like. Unmarked indicates stuff I
have’t seen, or stuff that I don’t care about. There are no real
stinkers I’ve seen in this list.

Check out the following Cartoon Network websites:
http://www.toonami.com/
http://www.adultswim.com/

Toonami is showing
Dragonball GT
Gundam Seed
YuYu Hakusho *

The Adult Swim track includes
Big O
Blue Gender
Case Closed
Cowboy Bebop *
FLCL
InuYasha *
Kikaider
Lupin the 3rd * (a decades-old classic)
Reign: The Comquerer
Trigun *
Witch Hunter Robin
Wolf’s Rain

G4/TechTV runs a bunch of stuff in its “Anime Unleashed” track
http://www.g4techtv.com/show.aspx?show_key=44
including
Banner of the Stars *
Betterman
Crest of the Stars *
Dual
Geneshaft
Last Exile

STARZ! Action runs some anime, particularly on Saturdays.
http://www.starz.com/se/action/index.html

This is by no means a comprehensive listing of anime currently running
on TV here.

And, of course, there’s DVD. If you prefer subtitles to dubs, buy your
anime on DVD instead of watching it on cable. My favorite retailer is
probably The Right Stuf, Inc. in Des Moines.
http://www.rightstuf.com/

—
andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen
http://www.irlm.org/ – mailto:webmaster@irlm.org
“Anybody who takes this seriously deserves to”
— Donna Barr

Have caught some InuYasha, and liked it. Cowboy Bebop didn’t make sense to
me, but maybe it is because I haven’t watched it from the beginning…?

Am a HUGE Lupin III fan from ‘way back…heading over to the website to see
when those are showing. 🙂 (One of the big pluses of Lupin III is the
jazz soundtrack music, LOL!)

–Karen

At 07:30 PM 7/9/2004 -0700, you wrote:

>What’s current? If you like dubbed versions, there is a lot on TV. I’ll
>mark (*) the ones I particularly like. Unmarked indicates stuff I
>have’t seen, or stuff that I don’t care about. There are no real
>stinkers I’ve seen in this list.

Thanks, Nora. Although I am personally interested in finding out more about anime/manga, it also seems to me that if “we” (non-anime- costume fans) start showing up at anime cons and touting “our” cons, but obviously not having a clue about what’s going on, we aren’t likely to make the connections with these (mostly) young people that we want to. Instead, given that many of them are in the adolescent mindset already, we are likely to come across as condescending old farts.

A lot of what they are doing is really great, but there’s also a lot that looks really embarrassing – at the anime con I mentioned, there were some truly great costumes, but there were also far too many pudgy (or just plain fat) kids in poorly made and inappropriate-to-body-type outfits. “But I want to dress like my favorite character.” Reminded me of early (well, early for me – we only started going to cons about 25 years ago) con costuming, except for the generous admixture of superior costumes, which were less often seen back then. At least some of these kids clearly already have the right mindset regarding re-creation, in terms of trying for perfection.

I’d much prefer to be able to say “Oh, that’s a great “whatever” costume” than “that’s a great costume – what is it?”

Tina (who always wants to “know” – should have been named Rikki Tikki Tavvi)

—– Original Message —–
From: Bruce & Nora Mai<mailto:casamai@sbcglobal.net>
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com<mailto:runacc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 9:51 PM
Subject: Re: [runacc] Anime Expo Masquerade Winners

I think it’s fairly relevant here because we keep saying we have to get the
anime people interested in CCs and a number of us don’t have a clue where to
start. While we might have an interest in anime, we’ve never been to one of
their cons, and aren’t sure how to approach this “new” type of fandom. I’d
say we’re asking for how to get started because we really want to hook up
with the anime fans on their own turf.

Nora

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

That would include me. Probably the only time I was ahead of the curve. I
was watching various videos with an informal group back in the mid-’80s.

My tastes ran (and still do, when I look for it) to SF stories, often giant
robot stuff. The storytelling is a bit different now in that genre, and I
might not find it as interesting.
I’ve noticed that when I have collected videos (I have maybe a dozen titles
or so), I prefer one-shots rather than a TV series. Don’t know why,
precisely. Guess I can stand a story just for so long, where anime is
concerned. I’m presently converting those old tapes to DVD. Things like
“Iczer 1”, “Madox-01”, “Warriors of the Wind” (aka Nausicca in the Valley of
the Wind), “Laputa”, GAll Force, etc. Another of my favorites is “Black
Magic M-66”. Derivative, but good stuff. And the Bubble Gum Crisis
(armored babes meet “Bladerunner”) first 2 or 3 videos are pretty good.

I’d like to give a series or two a try again. Some of the concepts seem
pretty interesting. I want to check out “Last Exile” because it looks like
Miyazaki’s stuff. More recently, we’ve seen the last two Miyazakis
“Princess Mononoke” and “Spirited Away”. I also have “Ghost In the Shell”
and look forwared to the RV series coming soon.

We’re pretty much getting a mindset to attend the conventions in Iowa (maybe
CC24 and 25 should do a joint presentation?) and Chicago in the next couple
of years.

A few questions, please, Andy:

Our friends the Morrises say that you can just about go in any costume and
pretty much fit in at one of these things — that the kids just think you’re
doing something they haven’t seen. Would it be better to “walk the walk”
and do the “When in Rome” thing?

What is the hot anime genre presently?

Is there a prevalence of a particular tv show/video that a lot of people are
costuming from?

All of us on this list are “mature costumers”. If anyone has seen any of
these anime, then they know that the popular characters are young and thin
(as Karen mentioned). Preferring to costume to body-type, then, becomes
more problematic. Do you have any thoughts on what shows that have good
designs that we could wear?

Bruce

—– Original Message —–
From: “Ricky & Karen Dick” <castleb@pulsenet.com>
To: <runacc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 9:43 PM
Subject: Re: [runacc] Anime Expo Masquerade Winners

> And some of us did anime stuff “in the day” 15-20 years ago (when it was
> still going by the un-PC label of “Japanimation”), but have NO idea what’s
> current now.
>
> –Karen
>
> At 08:51 PM 7/8/2004 -0500, you wrote:
> >I think it’s fairly relevant here because we keep saying we have to get
the
> >anime people interested in CCs and a number of us don’t have a clue where
to
> >start. While we might have an interest in anime, we’ve never been to one
of
> >their cons, and aren’t sure how to approach this “new” type of fandom.
I’d
> >say we’re asking for how to get started because we really want to hook up
> >with the anime fans on their own turf.
> >
> >Nora
> >—– Original Message —–
> >From: “Andrew T Trembley” <attrembl@bovil.com>
> > > ‘k, it’s just as a list moderator myself I can’t in good conscience
> > > respond to the post on this list.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

At 07:44 AM 7/10/2004 -0400, you wrote:

>A lot of what they are doing is really great, but there’s also a lot that
>looks really embarrassing – at the anime con I mentioned, there were some
>truly great costumes, but there were also far too many pudgy (or just
>plain fat) kids in poorly made and inappropriate-to-body-type
>outfits. “But I want to dress like my favorite character.”

As was discussed months ago on the ICG-D (or maybe it was f-costume) list,
the motivation behind anime costuming is different from the motivation
behind S/F costuming.

The point of cosplay is to dress as your favorite character and re-enact
scenes from your favorite anime–awards are secondary or irrelevant, and so
is your actual physical resemblance to the character. So the whole
“costuming to body type” thing we do doesn’t necessarily apply in their
playground.

>Reminded me of early (well, early for me – we only started going to cons
>about 25 years ago) con costuming, except for the generous admixture of
>superior costumes, which were less often seen back then. At least some of
>these kids clearly already have the right mindset regarding re-creation,
>in terms of trying for perfection.

As in the early days of S/F costuming, best to find something positive
about every costume you see and compliment that vs. trying to lecture about
costuming to body type, especially on their home turf. At least they’re
interested in costume to begin with!

We also have to take into consideration that there are more large /
overweight kids today than there were 20 years ago (and even 20-30 years
ago, there were more “odd” body types in fandom than in the Real World,
with the possible exception of Southern California).

>I’d much prefer to be able to say “Oh, that’s a great “whatever” costume”
>than “that’s a great costume – what is it?”

Me, too, but there’s SO MUCH stuff out there that it’s nearly impossible to
know everything, not only in anime, but in S/F media recreations as well.
(I judged a Toronto Trek masquerade in the 90’s where somebody did an
obscure “Doctor Who” villain–I’d have been lost if they hadn’t supplied
photos of the original.

Recently, Marty Gear was a workmanship judge for a local Baltimore anime
convention. The participants loved it that their workmanship was being
recognized and awarded, and he even got a nice mention in one of the anime
magazines covering the convention.

–Karen

Tina –

You might try going up to them and saying “I love your costume. Please tell
me about your character”. Most enthusiasts will be only to happy to
explain. There may be a few who won’t respond, but my experience has been
that most are polite and quite willing to share the “gospel”. We did a show
at one of the anime cons here, and took the opportunity to attend some of
the costuming panels and invite those present to CC22. We explained that we
welcomed anyone who was interested in doing costumes, and that many people
who attended might not have had an opportunity to see cosplay before. The
folks we talked to seemed pleased that their work was appreciated and that
people outside their interest group had made an effort to contact them. I
don’t know that we got any attendees, but we certainly extended the hand.

One thing that might deter some kids from attending a CC is the cost. As
with the rest of us, one can only afford to attend so many conventions and I
suspect that their funds would mainly go to anime cons. I do think we should
keep trying though because a true costume lover will want to try other types
of things as well and we may pick them up down the road a bit.

Trudy

>From: “Christine Connell” <connell-t1@verizon.net>
>Reply-To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
>To: <runacc@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: Re: [runacc] Anime Expo Masquerade Winners
>Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 07:44:11 -0400
>
>Thanks, Nora. Although I am personally interested in finding out more
>about anime/manga, it also seems to me that if “we” (non-anime- costume
>fans) start showing up at anime cons and touting “our” cons, but obviously
>not having a clue about what’s going on, we aren’t likely to make the
>connections with these (mostly) young people that we want to. Instead,
>given that many of them are in the adolescent mindset already, we are
>likely to come across as condescending old farts.
>
>A lot of what they are doing is really great, but there’s also a lot that
>looks really embarrassing – at the anime con I mentioned, there were some
>truly great costumes, but there were also far too many pudgy (or just plain
>fat) kids in poorly made and inappropriate-to-body-type outfits. “But I
>want to dress like my favorite character.” Reminded me of early (well,
>early for me – we only started going to cons about 25 years ago) con
>costuming, except for the generous admixture of superior costumes, which
>were less often seen back then. At least some of these kids clearly
>already have the right mindset regarding re-creation, in terms of trying
>for perfection.
>
>I’d much prefer to be able to say “Oh, that’s a great “whatever” costume”
>than “that’s a great costume – what is it?”
>
>Tina (who always wants to “know” – should have been named Rikki Tikki
>Tavvi)
> —– Original Message —–
> From: Bruce & Nora Mai<mailto:casamai@sbcglobal.net>
> To: runacc@yahoogroups.com<mailto:runacc@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 9:51 PM
> Subject: Re: [runacc] Anime Expo Masquerade Winners
>
>
> I think it’s fairly relevant here because we keep saying we have to get
>the
> anime people interested in CCs and a number of us don’t have a clue
>where to
> start. While we might have an interest in anime, we’ve never been to one
>of
> their cons, and aren’t sure how to approach this “new” type of fandom.
>I’d
> say we’re asking for how to get started because we really want to hook
>up
> with the anime fans on their own turf.
>
> Nora
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Bruce & Nora Mai wrote:

> I’m presently converting those old tapes to DVD. Things like
> “Iczer 1”, “Madox-01”, “Warriors of the Wind” (aka Nausicca in the Valley of
> the Wind), “Laputa”, GAll Force, etc. Another of my favorites is “Black
> Magic M-66”. Derivative, but good stuff. And the Bubble Gum Crisis
> (armored babes meet “Bladerunner”) first 2 or 3 videos are pretty good.

Disney (through the efforts of John Lasseter at Pixar) has been
releasing new transfers of Miyazaki on DVD. “Laputa” (titled here
“Castle in the Sky”) is available on DVD, in a beautiful transfer.
“Warriors of the Wind” was a horible edit (21 minutes lost); “Nausicaa
in the Valley of the Wind” is due for DVD release in its original form
pretty soon. Don’t transfer your tapes, just spend the bucks and get the
DVDs.

“Bubblegum Crisis” was one of the first anime series (TV or OVA)
released on DVD.

> Our friends the Morrises say that you can just about go in any costume and
> pretty much fit in at one of these things — that the kids just think you’re
> doing something they haven’t seen. Would it be better to “walk the walk”
> and do the “When in Rome” thing?

Well…

Yes. If you walk in wearing an original costume, folks will just assume
that it’s something they haven’t seen. Fine for the halls, not for the
masquerade, though.

There’s also the option of traditional fan-wear for your first outing.

> What is the hot anime genre presently?

There isn’t one, really.

> Is there a prevalence of a particular tv show/video that a lot of people are
> costuming from?

Trigun has captured a lot of peoples fancies, but that’s a few years old.

> All of us on this list are “mature costumers”. If anyone has seen any of
> these anime, then they know that the popular characters are young and thin
> (as Karen mentioned). Preferring to costume to body-type, then, becomes
> more problematic. Do you have any thoughts on what shows that have good
> designs that we could wear?

Main characters are often young and thin. Supporting characters run the
gamut.

andy

We are currently getting the Anime Channel on our “On Demand” service with
the cable (when it works). We’re watching a lot of stuff, but unfortunately
much of it is mid series. Still fun though. I love Excel Saga, although I
wasn’t sure I was going to at first. I still think that Menchi is a cat,
though. I don’t care if they call her a dog. When we buy the DVDs, we
mostly get movies rather than series, but someone gave us a couple of Excels
and now we have to keep going.

Trudy

>From: Andrew T Trembley <attrembl@bovil.com>
>Reply-To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
>To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [runacc] Anime Expo Masquerade Winners
>Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 19:30:39 -0700
>
>On Jul 8, 2004, at 7:43 PM, Ricky & Karen Dick wrote:
> > And some of us did anime stuff “in the day” 15-20 years ago (when it
> > was
> > still going by the un-PC label of “Japanimation”), but have NO idea
> > what’s
> > current now.
>
>What’s current? If you like dubbed versions, there is a lot on TV. I’ll
>mark (*) the ones I particularly like. Unmarked indicates stuff I
>have’t seen, or stuff that I don’t care about. There are no real
>stinkers I’ve seen in this list.
>
>Check out the following Cartoon Network websites:
>http://www.toonami.com/
>http://www.adultswim.com/
>
>Toonami is showing
> Dragonball GT
> Gundam Seed
> YuYu Hakusho *
>
>The Adult Swim track includes
> Big O
> Blue Gender
> Case Closed
> Cowboy Bebop *
> FLCL
> InuYasha *
> Kikaider
> Lupin the 3rd * (a decades-old classic)
> Reign: The Comquerer
> Trigun *
> Witch Hunter Robin
> Wolf’s Rain
>
>G4/TechTV runs a bunch of stuff in its “Anime Unleashed” track
>http://www.g4techtv.com/show.aspx?show_key=44
>including
> Banner of the Stars *
> Betterman
> Crest of the Stars *
> Dual
> Geneshaft
> Last Exile
>
>STARZ! Action runs some anime, particularly on Saturdays.
>http://www.starz.com/se/action/index.html
>
>This is by no means a comprehensive listing of anime currently running
>on TV here.
>
>And, of course, there’s DVD. If you prefer subtitles to dubs, buy your
>anime on DVD instead of watching it on cable. My favorite retailer is
>probably The Right Stuf, Inc. in Des Moines.
>http://www.rightstuf.com/
>
>–
>andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen
>http://www.irlm.org/ – mailto:webmaster@irlm.org
>”Anybody who takes this seriously deserves to”
> — Donna Barr
>

Many of us here started with media re-creation costumes (one of the first
two costumes I made was a Classic STAR TREK uniform, LOL!).

I can’t tell you what switch gets thrown in someone’s head to make them
want to try making their own original stuff, but it happens. (I always
bounced back and forth between original and re-creation, and so did many of
my friends, when we were in our late teens and early 20’s.) We can only
hope that some of the anime costumers will do the same once they are
exposed to other forms of costuming.

–Karen

At 03:38 PM 7/10/2004 -0400, you wrote:

>I do think we should
>keep trying though because a true costume lover will want to try other types
>of things as well and we may pick them up down the road a bit.
>
>Trudy

Thanks, Andy.
Turns out we have the “Anime Companion”; dug it out and I’ll be cracking it
tomorrow.
It also amused me that some of your recomendations were things I’ve seen
from 15 years ago; are these considered ‘classics’ then?
We stopped by a local comic shop today that we haven’t been in for a while
and they’ve really expanded their manga, etc. They also sponsor a yearly
Otaku night at a local theatre so we’ll try to get to that. We explained
that we’re trying to hook back up with the anime community & cosplayers &
he’s offered to post flyers, etc. for us once they get moved to their new
space (this weekend as it turns out). He agreed that the cosplay community
here is small but apparently he sees most of them.
So, our first steps; we’ll let you know where it leads. Any further hints
will, of course, be welcome.

Nora

—– Original Message —–
From: “Andrew T Trembley” <attrembl@bovil.com>
> The works of Hayao Miyazaki are modern classics
> http://www.nausicaa.net/miyazaki/
>
> Osamu Tezuka is probably the biggest name ever in anime and manga.
> You’ll recognize some of his work. You’ve seen it.
> http://en.tezuka.co.jp/
>
> Rumiko Takashi is “The Princess of Manga”. Her “Ranma 1/2,” “Inu
> Yasha,” “Maison Ikoku” and “Lum” (“Urusei Yatsura” or “Those Annoying
> Aliens”) are incredibly popular. Mind you, I never liked “Maison
> Ikoku.” I adore the rest.
> http://furinkan.com/takahashi/
>
> Buy a copy of “The Anime Companion” and “Anime Essentials” by Gilles
> Poitras
> http://www.koyagi.com/index.html
> Trust me. “The Anime Companion” is subtitled “What’s Japanese in
> Japanese Animation” and it’s a great supporting work.

Yeah, thanks, Andy. We got our answers much more succintly here from you
than the meandering that would have immediately occured on the D list.

As usual, when we get a wild hair, we immediately like to do some research,
as Nora described previously. In addition, I sent out a few exploratory
e-mails to three anime cons expressing our interest in promoting CC25 and
doing some volunteer programming. We’ll see how that goes.

In the meantime, I came across the rather active Anime Central (Chicago, for
those of you not familar with it) forum Apparently, the con keeps in
contact with their attendees this way. Seems to be effective.

Anyway, I decided to do a little nosing around and immediately discovered
they have a whole board for Masquerade and Cosplay discussions.

http://www.acen.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=4

It was a good opportunity to “eavesdrop” and see what kinds of things they
were talking about. Not too surprisingly, some of the subjects parallel our
own topics on the lists. The participants are no doubt represent only a
small portion of the whole, as far as the cosplayers are concerned. Yet,
you can certainly tell the writers are young adults or proto-adults.

A few choice threads I am copyng here are instructive for our group’s
discussion and what to expect if we go to one of these:

For one thing, apparently they have what passes for a masquerade and a
seperate competition for the skits. The skit times have “strict” limits.
There were also other issues discussed, including entrants flaunting those
rules. In particular, there was a character called Vash that stripped. The
“Naked Lady” syndrome seems to have raised it’s head (only this time, it was
a guy).

http://www.acen.org/forums/showthread.php?t=3913

At a media con, there’s a greater danger of a lot of people doing the same
character for hall (and competition costumes). You’d think with all that’s
out there, there’d be more originality, but apparently not. Probably
indicative of the limited resources of the participants. So, in this
thread, they’re predicting what will be hot as a costume for next year…

http://www.acen.org/forums/showthread.php?t=4431

These next threads were of particular interest because they reveal more of
how these costumers think:

New hallway costume rules. This apparently caused quite an uproar. It
seems that this con has gotten so big –they were prediciting perhaps 800
attendees(!) — that the con staff made new rules that could seriously limt
the size and scope of many more elaborate costumes. The biggest issue was
the ‘ 6″ Rule’. The con is getting so popular and the hotel has expressed
concrns that the staff felt they had to act. Of course, how easy it was to
pollce this, I’m not sure….

http://www.acen.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2690

Another syndrome appeared in recent memory — the Adrian Butterfield
effect. It seems some people were “cosplaying” Nazis…..

http://www.acen.org/forums/showthread.php?t=4378

Finally, this seems to shed a bit more light on the whole question I posed
to Andy about “When in Rome”. We were a bit disturbed by some of the
opinions expressed on this one regarding going to an anime con in something
not anime related…

http://www.acen.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2564

Food for thought.

Bruce

Hey, Bruce & Nora, thanks for the very helpful links.

At 12:19 AM 7/11/2004 -0500, you wrote:

>So, in this thread, they’re predicting what will be hot as a costume for
>next year…

I think it’s really sad that most of their members’ exposure to anime comes
from Cartoon Network and nothing else. Very limited pool of shows to draw
upon, IMHO, especially with the wealth of DVDs out there today. Can’t
afford to buy ’em? Many rental places now have very respectable anime
sections.

Some of the “classics”:

From the 60’s:
Astro Boy (aka Tetsuan Atom–updated version airing on network TV on
Saturday mornings)
8th Man (aka Tobor the 8th Man–I think an updated version just got remade)
Marine Boy
Prince Planet
Amazing Three (aka Wonder Three)
Kimba, the White Lion (aka Jungle Emperor Leo)

From the 70’s:
StarBlazers (aka Space Cruiser Yamato)
Battle for the Planets (aka Gatchaman–far more violence in its original form)
Lupin the 3rd (aka Lupin III–very adult adventures of a James Bond/Jewel
thief type character)
Captain Harlock (aka Cosmic Corsair Captain Harlock)
Starzinger (my memory is hazy on the Americanized name, but was packaged
with Voltron and other shows as an Adventure 5-pack)
Galaxy Express 999 (space-going train)
Queen of 1000 Years
(Harlock, GE 999, and Queen of 1000 Years all take place in the same
universe, so you’d see some characters on all 3 shows. Also Queen Emeraldis.)

From the 80’s
Robotech (combining the three shows Macross, Southern Cross, and Orguss–I
never saw the Orguss phase)
Dirty Pair (girls in skimpy costumes with big guns and explosives)
Bubblegum Crisis
Gundam
Akira (saw it and didn’t like it, but it had a HUGE following)

I know I’m forgetting stuff. I used to live, eat, and breathe this stuff,
and in 1990 it just stopped for me when I moved to the East Coast. Now
trying so hard to collect my favorites (Astro Boy just celebrated his 40th
anniversary!) that there’s no time to see the new stuff, except the odds
and ends I catch on Cartoon Channel and Sci-Fi Channel (finally got to see
Vampire Hunter D).

The one movie I always wanted to see and didn’t was “Crusher Joe,” who was
billed as a Han Solo / space mercenary sort of character (definitely aimed
at an adult audience).

>The biggest issue was the ‘ 6″ Rule’.

There’s going to be a lotta unhappy Giant Robots and Winged characters, LOL!

>Another syndrome appeared in recent memory — the Adrian Butterfield
>effect. It seems some people were “cosplaying” Nazis…..

This has been an ongoing issue for the last 30 years (and it didn’t start
with Adrian). I have photos from the early 70’s of friends who wore Nazi
uniforms to a TREK convention, entered the masquerade, and billed
themselves as being from the STAR TREK episode “Patterns of Force.” The
photos show them menacing another masquerade entrant, who was a belly
dancer from the episode with Jack the Ripper. I also had friends (with real
Tommy guns!) who dressed as characters from “A Piece of the Action.”

If we start deciding some costumes are acceptable and some are not, where
do we draw the line?
Aside from the obvious nudity in pubic areas of the hotel and live steel /
real weapons.

>Finally, this seems to shed a bit more light on the whole question I posed
>to Andy about “When in Rome”. We were a bit disturbed by some of the
>opinions expressed on this one regarding going to an anime con in something
>not anime related…

Well *sigh* it IS an ANIME con. I wish I wish I still fit into some of my
old costumes from the 80’s. But they are all long gone / sold off to
collectors.

If you go to the San Diego Comic-Con and enter original costumes in the
masquerade, don’t expect to win anything (unless you are Brinke Stephens
and do a really cool dance routine, LOL!).

We went to Toronto Trek in the mid-90’s and were *thrilled* to meet two of
the actors from the vampire cop show, FOREVER KNIGHT (shot locally in
Toronto). Other attendees were grousing because they “weren’t from STAR
TREK, so they don’t belong here.” And the Toronto Trek masquerade audience
also had trouble coping with non-media costumes (although there was more
than just Trek entered–we also saw very good entries from Doctor Who and
Babylon 5, among others).

So, we need to cut the anime folk some slack here. It *is* their territory.
If I were going to an anime con, I’d dig out my “Robot Power” Astro Boy
t-shirt, or try to find something simple to make to fit in. Many of the
series (Lupin III) feature 20th-century clothes, and many of the background
characters in other series are wearing traditional ethnic garments (here’s
the excuse to break out that Folkwear pattern and make a kimono, or
cheongsam, or hapi / haori). There are non-perfect / non-slender
characters–you just have to deal with being the older advisor or the comic
sidekick or whatever. Some friends once had a “Starzinger” costume group in
planning (science fiction themed retelling of “The Monkey King,” as many of
us saw in the 60’s as “Alakazam the Great”). Starzinger is the typical
slender brunette hero guy, and the Princess he is guarding looks like
Barbie (all blonde and pink). I was going to make Princess’ matronly
advisor, who was essentially wearing white bellbottoms, a white lab coat,
and funky green earrings. Not a stretch, but an easy “gateway” costume and
a way to beef up the group.

Maybe all of us need to rent a few videos and see what’s out there. This
can be like the SCA, where you can be a peasant and still go to the events
without much capital outlay.

But, of course, I’ve loved this genre since I was 9 or 10 years old and
just haven’t kept up with it in the last decade, so it’s not a stretch to
eturn to my roots.

–Karen

—– Original Message —–
From: “Ricky & Karen Dick” <castleb@pulsenet.com>
Subject: Re: [runacc] Looking into the minds of Cosplayers

> Hey, Bruce & Nora, thanks for the very helpful links.

No problemo. 🙂

>
> I think it’s really sad that most of their members’ exposure to anime
comes
> from Cartoon Network and nothing else. Very limited pool of shows to draw
> upon, IMHO, especially with the wealth of DVDs out there today. Can’t
> afford to buy ’em? Many rental places now have very respectable anime
> sections.

Yeah, although when we triedd to find some, they were pretty hard ot come
by. There are some Asian stores in our area, but they are stocking Chinese
videos, not Japanese.

>
> From the 80’s

> Akira (saw it and didn’t like it, but it had a HUGE following)

Yeah, it was neat to look at, but I thought it was long. Apparently fans
don’t think so. (shrug)

(finally got to see Vampire Hunter D).

Oh, yeah! How could I forget that one! Yeah, that’s one of our favorites,
and we just recently rented the sequel. Not bad.
>
> The one movie I always wanted to see and didn’t was “Crusher Joe,” who was
> billed as a Han Solo / space mercenary sort of character (definitely aimed
> at an adult audience).

Yeah, more or less.

>
> >The biggest issue was the ‘ 6″ Rule’.
>
> There’s going to be a lotta unhappy Giant Robots and Winged characters,
LOL!

So I hear. Since the con happened so recently, I’m not sure what the
fallout was, but I notieced in the photos there were no mecha costumes. Too
bad, since I’d really like to see those up close.
>
> >Another syndrome appeared in recent memory — the Adrian Butterfield
> >effect. It seems some people were “cosplaying” Nazis…..
>
> This has been an ongoing issue for the last 30 years (and it didn’t start
> with Adrian). I have photos from the early 70’s of friends who wore Nazi
> uniforms to a TREK convention, entered the masquerade, and billed
> themselves as being from the STAR TREK episode “Patterns of Force.” The
> photos show them menacing another masquerade entrant, who was a belly
> dancer from the episode with Jack the Ripper. I also had friends (with
real
> Tommy guns!) who dressed as characters from “A Piece of the Action.”

Ah. Interesting. Didn’t know that, but not surprising, I suppose.

>
> If we start deciding some costumes are acceptable and some are not, where
> do we draw the line?
> Aside from the obvious nudity in pubic areas of the hotel and live steel /
> real weapons.

Well, like they said, it was a matter of the crowds. With 8000 (not 800, as
I erroneously posted LATE last night), I can see the problems. With a high
factor of people costuming with bits that extend off their bodies and being
a bit over-enthusiastic/oblivious/lacking a whole lot of common sense,
someone’s bound to get an eye poked out. There was one story about someone
in Pocky cardboard box costume (apparently, there’s at least one every year,
by the sound of it) that took out people, tables and whatever else they
didn’t see with their limited vision.

The arguement was made to move the con, but the counter arguement was that
it would require moving the con downtown and would cost more as a result.
The spin by one of the staffers was proposing the costumers should accept
the rule as a “challenge”, rather than a limitation.

>
> >Finally, this seems to shed a bit more light on the whole question I
posed
> >to Andy about “When in Rome”. We were a bit disturbed by some of the
> >opinions expressed on this one regarding going to an anime con in
something
> >not anime related…
>
> Well *sigh* it IS an ANIME con. I wish I wish I still fit into some of my
> old costumes from the 80’s. But they are all long gone / sold off to
> collectors.
>
> If you go to the San Diego Comic-Con and enter original costumes in the
> masquerade, don’t expect to win anything (unless you are Brinke Stephens
> and do a really cool dance routine, LOL!).

Actually, if you do someting original within the context of a media
character, you can be awarded. A young female did some sort of backless
Amidala number and won 2 – 3 prizes. Of course, it didn’t hurt that she was
pretty….

>
> So, we need to cut the anime folk some slack here. It *is* their
territory.
> If I were going to an anime con, I’d dig out my “Robot Power” Astro Boy
> t-shirt, or try to find something simple to make to fit in. Many of the
> series (Lupin III) feature 20th-century clothes, and many of the
background
> characters in other series are wearing traditional ethnic garments (here’s
> the excuse to break out that Folkwear pattern and make a kimono, or
> cheongsam, or hapi / haori). There are non-perfect / non-slender
> characters–you just have to deal with being the older advisor or the
comic
> sidekick or whatever.

Yeah, that appears to be the case. I think the novelty alone of a older
costumer playing on their turf with a recognizable costume is going to get
you some props, given the demographics of at least this con.

Bruce

Sorry that the last post was so long, and kinda off topic for runacc. As
one of the moderators on this list, I should know better.

“Starzinger’s” Americanized name was “Spaceketeers” (pronounced like
Mouseketeers or Musketeers), but we found it heinous and pronounced it, in
our best hillbilly accent, as “Space Keaters” (as in rhyming with heaters
or skeeters). Terrible name, interesting show.

Thanks to buying a whole lotta Anime albums in the 70’s, I know theme songs
from anime shows I never saw (such as “Cyborg 009”).

Speaking of Cyborg 009, the cyborgs appear to come in all shapes and sizes,
and wear simple red double-breasted uniforms with brass buttons that would
be easy to make. Just saw the DVD in my local Suncoast video store. That
would be an easy “entry level” hall costume, too.

>Yeah, although when we triedd to find some, they were pretty hard ot come
>by. There are some Asian stores in our area, but they are stocking Chinese
>videos, not Japanese.

I assume you’re having trouble finding rentals…? I think it was our local
Blockbuster that had an appeciable section. In San Jose, it was a large
hobby shop that first started carrying Anime videos for sale or rental.

Our local Suncoast store had a HUGE anime DVD section (plus manga books,
pocky candy, anime magazines, etc.) for sale.

>Re Vampire Hunter D] Oh, yeah! How could I forget that one! Yeah, that’s
>one of our favorites,
>and we just recently rented the sequel. Not bad.

Kathryn and Duane Elms had a gorgeous art book of costumes from the
show–would make great re-creation stuff.

>Ah. Interesting. Didn’t know that, but not surprising, I suppose.

It’s only fair to mention that the costumers in Nazi uniforms and gangster
stuff were avid gun collectors, military history buffs, and addictively
played board war games like “Risk” and “War In The East.” They also made
killer Imperial Uniforms from STAR WARS. One of them even bore a
more-than-passing resemblance to Grand Moff Tarkin. In the case of the
STAR WARS repros, the guns were modified replicas, not the real thing. 🙂

BTW, I quite understand the “no weapons” rule at most cons, having been at
the Los Angeles S/F convention where a Logan’s Run “sandman” was nearly
blown away by a SWAT team for drawing down on a “runner” with a
realistic-looking weapon. (This was on public streets surrounding an
airport-area hotel.) Convention staff got real anal about “peace-bonding”
or confiscating weaponry after that, including obviously balsa wood STAR
TREK pistol phasers. Part of this is the fault of S/F movies of the period
(notably STAR WARS) for using modified real guns (mauser, target pistols,
etc.) as props in their movies, so the fans faithfully copied them.

>Well, like they said, it was a matter of the crowds. With 8000 (not 800, as
>I erroneously posted LATE last night), I can see the problems. With a high
>factor of people costuming with bits that extend off their bodies and being
>a bit over-enthusiastic/oblivious/lacking a whole lot of common sense,
>someone’s bound to get an eye poked out. There was one story about someone
>in Pocky cardboard box costume (apparently, there’s at least one every year,
>by the sound of it) that took out people, tables and whatever else they
>didn’t see with their limited vision.

I’ve attended several conventions over 10,000 people, but I guess the
extensions off the body were not an issue in that era, as there were very
few costumes trying to do wings, etc. as hall costumes. The masquerade is
something else, and should not be restricted.

I think you may be right about the young, enthusiatic fans / lack of sense
issue. In may day, it was the Logan’s Run fans, who were typically under 21
and conducted “runs” in places where they were a danger to themselves and
the older fen (and mundanes!) they occasionally plowed over.

Sounds like they need a bigger venue, or areas where BIG costumes are
permitted or restricted (but not banned completely).

>Actually, if you do someting original within the context of a media
>character, you can be awarded. A young female did some sort of backless
>Amidala number and won 2 – 3 prizes. Of course, it didn’t hurt that she was
>pretty….

People did variants of Princess Leia in the 70’s and 80’s and competed them
(notably Carol Salemi’s dress and full circle cape with reflective CD’s all
over it made for ConStellation in 1983), so I think variants are acceptable
to S/F fans.

I made (but just wore in the halls) several uniform variants derived from
StarBlazers, including a female “Black Tiger” fighter pilot (females were
NEVER shown as fighter pilots on the series). These were recognizable as
being from that universe, and I got lots of photos taken by visiting
Japanese fans. Don’t know how this would go over 20 years later, or whether
it would be considered “inaccurate” by other fans.

>I think the novelty alone of a older
>costumer playing on their turf with a recognizable costume is going to get
>you some props, given the demographics of at least this con.

I wonder if older anime fans just don’t bother with costumes because of the
body type thing.
Heck, the guy who organized the first anime club in Los Angeles (Fred
Patton of LASFS) was probably in his 50’s when he did so (and was the
stereotypical “dumpy” male fannish body type, no offense intended).

Most anime seems intended for kids and teens. I know the adult Japanese
fans I talked to in the 80’s were amazed that people in their mid-20’s were
following Space Cruiser Yamato, Gatchaman, and Macross, which to them were
shows intended for a younger audience.

It’s not that I lost my love of anime as a middle-aged adult. I just don’t
have the corporate income to enable me to follow the conventions and buy
the latest and greatest on DVD to stay up with the genre. We’ve been
talking about trying to go to some of the local anime and S/F cons within a
day’s drive (maybe only for one day each), to try to connect with
Pittsburgh / Cleveland / Columbus fandom preparatory to bidding for CC-30.
Plus we have a very active local beading group (of which Denice Girardeau
and Susie Garcia are prominent members), and we’re going to see if their
club will organize a strong track of beading-related programming for us.

Guess I should bring a small photo album of my anime costume from the 70’s
and 80’s that I can show to younger fen if I ever go to an anime convention.

–Karen

I could’ve sworn that I was younger that 18 when I first started watching Astro Boy! There wasn’t much of anything way back then that could have been considered SF, unless you count Duck Dodgers and Marvin the Martian.

Tina

—– Original Message —–
From: Ricky & Karen Dick<mailto:castleb@pulsenet.com>
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com<mailto:runacc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 2:31 AM
Subject: Re: [runacc] Looking into the minds of Cosplayers
<snip>
I know I’m forgetting stuff. I used to live, eat, and breathe this stuff,
and in 1990 it just stopped for me when I moved to the East Coast. Now
trying so hard to collect my favorites (Astro Boy just celebrated his 40th
anniversary!) that there’s no time to see the new stuff, except the odds
and ends I catch on Cartoon Channel and Sci-Fi Channel (finally got to see
Vampire Hunter D).

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tina–

CYE.

Anybody else who wants to discuss this, feel free to contact me off-list,
but we are getting ‘way off topic.

–Karen

At 07:18 PM 7/11/2004 -0400, you wrote:

>I could’ve sworn that I was younger that 18 when I first started watching
>Astro Boy! There wasn’t much of anything way back then that could have
>been considered SF, unless you count Duck Dodgers and Marvin the Martian.
>
>Tina

Sorry if this rambles a bit, but there’s been so much to respond to while I
was in Vegas for a week, and I’m still recovering.

When I first attend the local Anime convention, I didn’t get an anime
costume finished, so I wore something I had which had an anime look to it
(military uniform, big cape). I had my picture taken more in that non-anime
costume than in the anime costumes that I have done since. Many people came
up and asked, “Are you from _______?” At first, I would reply, “No, it’s
just something I made up.” They would always get a puzzled look as if they
didn’t understand doing something original, then say, “well, it’s really
cool.” After a while, I got tired of explaining, so I’d just tell them that
whatever they guessed was correct. If they didn’t have a guess, I’d just
tell them someone else’s guess. There is so much anime that it’s hard to
know them all and there are strong similarities between many of them. If
they don’t recognize which anime your costume is from, they’ll assume it’s
something they haven’t seen before. Even if you just wear an anime t-shirt,
you’ll fit in at an anime convention, granted the median age demographic is
very low.

Body type and even gender is not an issue in cosplaying, as the point is to
be your character, regardless of what one looks like. I every manner of
size, shape and gender dressed as Sailor Moon. Crossplaying
(cross-dressing) is very popular particularly with young girls dressing as
their favorite male characters. I even know some girls who will only
cosplay male characters.

Asian and Asian-inspired traditional costumes are also popular at Anime
conventions, some even has special categories for them in the costume
contest. Many anime characters also wear plain street clothes. Many
conventions have cracked down on allowing anyone just wearing street clothes
to enter the costume contest.

Overall I don’t feel that CC will appeal to most cosplayers, as they cosplay
because it’s the in thing to do, not because they have an interest in
costuming. Also, even though costuming skills are somewhat universal, an
Anime/Asian specific track would be more more appealing to cosplayers than
general costuming classes. A panel on making kitty ears (seen in many
anime) would be much more enticing to most cosplayers than something more
generalized like Hats and Headdresses.

I have talked to members of the local cosplay club a lot about CC23. I even
crossposted the panel list from CC22 to the mailing list. The few people
that I have interested resulted from showing a CC video during lunch at a
sewing workshop that the group had. Cosplayers will to any anime convention
that the can convince their parents to send them to; however, convincing
them to attend a non-anime convention is an uphill battle.

I have convinced a number of local cosplayers to attend and enter the
Masquerade at MileHiCon which I run. Overall, they have enjoyed the
opportunity to talk with the judges in the Green Room and feel that the
judging is much fairer. I always hear them recommend MileHi to their
friends. The last couple of years, I have had nearly equal numbers of Anime
and SF entries.

There is a large amount of discontent with local cosplayers over the judging
system at the local anime con. Judges are always guests and are judged on a
10 point scale. The numbers are totaled for a 1st, 2nd and 3rd place, then
each judge gets a Judges Choice, there is also an Audience Favorite. There
have been years when logical choices have won and years when the winners
just make you wonder why. Also, many times, one or two entries will take
several awards each. The greatest discontent is when a group of cute kids
takes top honors and several judges choice. Judges are most likely to make
a selection for their choice of an entry which is from something which they
have worked on.

In most recent years, the popular costumes have been from Inu Yasha. A few
years ago, Sailor Moon was very popular. It is speculated that Sailor Moon
will make a comeback at this years con. The best source for pictures of
what’s hot in the cosplay world is to check the website of Kevin Lillard, “A
Fan’s View”. He travels to anime conventions around the world, nearly every
weekend of the year, photographing cosplayers and probably has the most
extensive photo archive of cosplayers in the world. I try to check the
major cons after they happen.

Michael

On Jul 11, 2004, at 10:34 AM, Ricky & Karen Dick wrote:

> I assume you’re having trouble finding rentals…?

One word: Netflix

> It’s only fair to mention that the costumers in Nazi uniforms and
> gangster
> stuff were avid gun collectors, military history buffs, and addictively
> played board war games like “Risk” and “War In The East.” They also
> made
> killer Imperial Uniforms from STAR WARS. One of them even bore a
> more-than-passing resemblance to Grand Moff Tarkin. In the case of the
> STAR WARS repros, the guns were modified replicas, not the real thing.
> 🙂

There’s actually some precedent for Nazi uniforms in an anime/manga
masquerade. Osamu TEZUKA (of AstroBoy fame) did a manga series “Adolf:
The Half Aryan” which I can’t even begin to describe. It’s about
racism, Nazism, and the small underground Japanese pacifist movement
during World War II.

> I made (but just wore in the halls) several uniform variants derived
> from
> StarBlazers, including a female “Black Tiger” fighter pilot (females
> were
> NEVER shown as fighter pilots on the series). These were recognizable
> as
> being from that universe, and I got lots of photos taken by visiting
> Japanese fans. Don’t know how this would go over 20 years later, or
> whether
> it would be considered “inaccurate” by other fans.

Fanfic is a big thing in anime circles, so original designs derived
from popular works are generally also considered kosher.

> Most anime seems intended for kids and teens. I know the adult Japanese
> fans I talked to in the 80’s were amazed that people in their mid-20’s
> were
> following Space Cruiser Yamato, Gatchaman, and Macross, which to them
> were
> shows intended for a younger audience.

Strange aspect of Japanese culture, actually.

Part of it is that the anime in question is directed at teens and
younger. Not all, though. It’s perfectly fine to enjoy anime and manga,
but being a “fan” is something adults don’t do. If you don’t give up
being a fan, going to conventions and such, you’ll be branded an
“otaku” which **isn’t** a compliment. “Otaku” is Japanese for
“obsessive” (roughly) and puts you outside of mainstream society (a big
deal in Japan).

—
Andy Trembley, Bull-in-Drag
The Bovine Illuminati (It’s the Cows, Inc.)
http://www.bovil.com/
Moo!

On Jul 11, 2004, at 8:43 AM, Bruce & Nora Mai wrote:

> From: “Ricky & Karen Dick” <castleb@pulsenet.com>
>> Akira (saw it and didn’t like it, but it had a HUGE following)
>
> Yeah, it was neat to look at, but I thought it was long. Apparently
> fans
> don’t think so. (shrug)

It’s actually not terribly coherent, either. Captivating, though…

The manga is an epic of 6 volumes.

—
andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen – http://www.bovil.com/
San Jose, CA – ’72 R75/5 ’86 R100 (mine) – ’92 K75sa ’03 R1150R
(Kevin’s)
“It’s not pink, it’s peach-colored. Pink is tacky.”
–Manfred Pfirsich Marie Rommel

2nd most important safety device on my bike: the one beneath my right
hand
Most important safety device on my bike: the one inside my helmet

On Jul 10, 2004, at 11:31 PM, Ricky & Karen Dick wrote:

> From the 80’s
> Robotech (combining the three shows Macross, Southern Cross, and
> Orguss–I
> never saw the Orguss phase)

Super Dimesion Fortress Macross, Super Dimension Cavalry Southern Cross
and Genesis Climber Mospaeda, actually. Badly edited and rewritten to
create Robotech.

Got the restored edition of SDF Macross a year or two ago, and it was
really cool. Makes a lot more sense. Just got Mospaeda on disc, haven’t
started watching it yet.

—
andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen – http://www.bovil.com/
San Jose, CA – ’72 R75/5 ’86 R100 (mine) – ’92 K75sa ’03 R1150R
(Kevin’s)
…remaining .sig trimmed for better message/.sig ratio

Chronicles of the “workmanship” judging disaster
http://forums.cosplay.com/showthread.php?t=38702

And the whole Cosplay.com Anime Expo forum area for more…
http://forums.cosplay.com/forumdisplay.php?f=11

—
andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen – http://www.bovil.com/
San Jose, CA – ’72 R75/5 ’86 R100 (mine) – ’92 K75sa ’03 R1150R
(Kevin’s)
…remaining .sig trimmed for better message/.sig ratio

—– Original Message —–
From: “Bruno” <bruno@soulmasque.com>
Subject: Re: [runacc] Looking into the minds of Cosplayers

Lots of good info, there, Mike. On the surface, this doesn’t sound very
incouraging, but on the other hadn, it sounds like you made a few inroads.
We’ve stated all along that we would only expect about 10% to show interest,
but that’s still a potential sizable number of people.

From wht you’ve said, I think we could tailor panels to the interest of the
attendees. I’d bet a panel on traditional Japanese costume construction
might draw some people. I think one thing I’d probably wear there is one
or two of my hantens I wear regularly when the weather’s appropriate.

Andy’s comments about possible age discrimination are a bit disconcerting,
though…. What about the people who run the cons? They can’t be pups.

Bruce

There are older (non-teenage) people involved with Anime conventions and
Cosplaying. There are parents who attend with their kids and adults who are
there of their own interests. However, if you look through any of the
pictures at A Fan’s View http://www.afansview.com you will see that the
majority are very young. I know high school kids locally who go to cons on
their own, both locally and out of state.

I do not feel that overall, there would be any age discrimination from the
younger crowd if they felt that you were cool with what they were doing or
even participating. I’m sure that many of them have parents who do not
approve of what they are doing and to have another adult criticize them at a
con, I’m sure, would set them off.

Michael

—– Original Message —–
From: “Bruce & Nora Mai” <casamai@sbcglobal.net>
To: <runacc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 8:55 PM
Subject: Re: [runacc] Looking into the minds of Cosplayers

>
> Andy’s comments about possible age discrimination are a bit disconcerting,
> though…. What about the people who run the cons? They can’t be pups.
>
> Bruce

I think that the best way to promote CC to Cosplayers or anyone who’s never
been is to show them the types of things that go on at CC, rather than to
just tell them. I’ve seen more interest generated by people seeing
masquerade videos from CC than from just talking about them. It would be
nice to have a CC promo video, showing clips of all different things at CC;
masquerades, contests, socials, people in the halls, different panels. I
think that showing it in conjunction with a panel discussing CC would be the
best means to attract and interest people who have never been to CC.

The big Anime conventions in the Midwest that people from here travel to are
ACEN (Anime Central) and Anime Iowa. ACEN was in May and I think Anime Iowa
is in August.

I also emailed Kevin Lillard who run A Fan’s View and probably has the most
extensive photo collection of cosplayers, and he has added CC23 to his list
of “Other Conventions of Interest”.

—– Original Message —–
> Lots of good info, there, Mike. On the surface, this doesn’t sound very
> incouraging, but on the other hadn, it sounds like you made a few inroads.
> We’ve stated all along that we would only expect about 10% to show
interest,
> but that’s still a potential sizable number of people.
>
> From wht you’ve said, I think we could tailor panels to the interest of
the
> attendees. I’d bet a panel on traditional Japanese costume construction
> might draw some people. I think one thing I’d probably wear there is
one
> or two of my hantens I wear regularly when the weather’s appropriate.

Ok! I’m on a roll. Getting caught back up on things after a week in Vegas.

Here are some of the challenges I have experienced promoting CC in a non-CC
familiar area (Denver, CO).

I started my big CC promotion push at the local media con StarFest in
mid-April. This was 2 weeks before the dates for CC next year. I made big
posters of the flyers and lots of flyers. I had many people look at the
flyer and say, “I’d love to go, but I can’t get the time off that soon. If
only I’d known sooner.” After a while I finally figured out that they
thought it was this year, in two weeks. Then I started telling people that
it was next year. I think that people who are not used to traveling to cons
or planning to attend a con more than a year out, just don’t grasp the
concept of doing so. I asked at work if I could put in for vacation for CC
next year and was told that it was too soon. Many people just don’t plan
things that far out. I feel that the best time to begin promoting CC
locally would be 6-9 months out. You can start earlier, but I would not put
a lot of effort into a big local push until 6-9 months out.

I’ve also had a number of people tell me that Salt Lake City (9 hours from
Denver) is too far to go for a con.

The biggest challenge to promoting CC23 in Denver is that next year, due to
the addition of Star Wars Celebration 3 in April, the local media con moved
it’s weekend to avoid conflicting with SWC3 and is now the same weekend at
CC23. I am having a very difficult time convincing people to skip the media
con for a year. It is the biggest convention in Denver at 3-5000 people.
Even though people complain every year about how the costume contest is run,
they still aren’t willing to give up seeing the media guests to try
something different for a year. This convention (StarFest) is also a big
draw for people from Salt Lake City, so it may even be a challenge to get
SLC local media fans to attend CC.

Michael

Don’t be so sure of that. A BUNCH of people got major con-running experience while in their teens.

Byron

—– Original Message —–
From: Bruce & Nora Mai<mailto:casamai@sbcglobal.net>
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com<mailto:runacc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 10:55 PM
Subject: Re: [runacc] Looking into the minds of Cosplayers

—– Original Message —–
From: “Bruno” <bruno@soulmasque.com<mailto:bruno@soulmasque.com>>
Subject: Re: [runacc] Looking into the minds of Cosplayers

What about the people who run the cons? They can’t be pups.

Bruce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]