runacc.costume-con.org

CC 9 was February 15-18, 1991, according to the Costume-ConNections web site..

Byron

—– Original Message —–
From: Martin Gear
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2003 1:13 PM
Subject: Re: [runacc] Re: Date ideas

Betsy Delaney wrote:
>
<snip>
> For example, here in Columbia, where two of the CCs were held (CC3 and
> CC9), we had Memorial Day and President’s Day weekends respectively. As
> I recall, the former was a major problem for our area because there’s an
> annual soccer tournament, and all the hotels are booked well in advance
> to accommodate all the out of town teams. (I’m certain Marty will
> correct me if I’m wrong, here.) I think that’s the main reason we chose
> to do CC9 in February. No soccer teams to worry about.

Sorry Betsy, but according to my records, we’ve held all three Baltimore
area CC’s over Memorial Day weekend. That was Disclave’s weekend, and
since Disclave did not generally do a masquerade, we offered a special
rate to Disclave members who wanted to come to Costume Con just for the
masquerades.

The soccer tournament was not a major problem for CC-3 although as Kathy
Sanders put it, “We were expecting (bass voice) SOCCER PLAYERS and we
got (falsetto voice) soccer players.” During that weekend the Hilton
was the headquarters hotel for the tournament and most of the teams
stayed with families in the area. By CC-9, the tournament has expanded
and we had a lot more soccer families staying at the Columbia Inn. Also
it became obvious that the Columbia Inn really did not have sufficient
function space for the size that Costume Con had become. We held CC-15
in downtown Baltimore over Memorial Day weekend because all of the
suburban hotels were now booked solid because of soccer tournaments in
the area. Given that, and the fact that BaltiCon [very costumer friendly
for those of you who never been] is now on Memorial Day weekend, I would
doubt that we will see any East Coast CC’s using that weekend.

^M^

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I said I’d post the org table from our bid plans. This is what we have
so far, with some names filled in (trimmed from my working web-page
document).

The Executive Committee
Chairman: Kevin Roche
Vice-Chairman: Karen Tully
Treasurer: Lisa Deutsch Harrigan
Secretary:

Administration
The business functions of the conference… making sure we have a place
to hold it, figuring out what needs to be done, seeing that there are
people to get things done, ensuring that you can register and attend.
Facilities:
Operations: Sarah Goodman
Registration:
Volunteering:
Program & Events Scheduler: Yvette Keller
CC29 Site Selection:
Accountant: Allison Reddington

Communications
If a conference happened in the woods, and there was nobody to attend
it, would it really happen? Of course not. Our communications group is
here to make sure you’re not in the dark about what’s happening before
and at the convention.
Communications Manager: Lance Moore
Publications:
Bid Chair: Andy Trembley
Bid Committee
Nancy Mildebrandt & Glen Boettcher
Henry Osier
Sandra & Jim Manning
Sandra Childress & Jim Briggs
Byron & Tina Connell
Jan Price
Elaine & Carl Mami

Hospitality
Providing the best welcome we can…
Friday Night Social:
Con Suite: Sandra Childress
Fairy Godfather:

Contests
Future Fashion Folio:
Doll Contest: Carolyn Kayta Barrows

Events
Fantasy & Science Fiction Masquerade:
Historical Masquerade:
Future Fashion Show:
Single Pattern Competition: (Part of Future Fashion Show)

Event Support
House Manager:
Stage Manager: John O’Halloran
Green Room Manager:
Tech Manager: Carl “Z!” Zwanzig
Tech Crew
Official Photography:
Official Video:
Lights:
Sound:

Fixed Exhibits
Exhibits Coordinator: Sally Norton
Dealers’ Room Coordinator:

Programming
Panel Discussions and workshops don’t just happen.
Program Developer: Hilary Ayer

—
andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen
http://www.bovil.com/
“It’s not pink; it’s peach-colored. Pink is tacky.” –Manfred Pfirsich
Marie Rommel

Betsy, the only thing I can add to your list at this time is, for the
“during” section, availability of water!

Elaine

>

On Tuesday, May 6, 2003, at 05:40 PM, Elaine Mami wrote:

> Betsy, the only thing I can add to your list at this time is, for the
> “during” section, availability of water!

Well, the original idea was that the Bid/Before/During/After is a grid
showing responsibilities of each department and when they come due, so
water is:

Hotel/Before making sure water service is detailed out in the contract
Hotel/During making sure the hotel is living up to the contract

Consuite/Before including water in the shopping list and is purchased
Consuite/During ensuring that water remains cold and stocked.

I’d actually place water as a detail item in the general
responsibilities list for both Hotel and Consuite instead of in the
Bid/Before/During/After grid. It’s the kind of thing the WSFS
“Nitpicking & Flyspecking Committee” takes care of at WorldCon. The
grid is more of a high-level planning calendar indicating when major
deadlines and responsibilities fall due.

—
Andy Trembley, Bull-in-Drag
The Bovine Illuminati (It’s the Cows, Inc.)
http://www.bovil.com/
Moo!

Rather than an abstract idea of “reasonable,” you need to compare the shuttle rate against the alternatives, such as (1) the cost of renting a car at the airport/train station/bus station and driving to the hotel (and back), (2) the cab fare from the airport/etc. to the hotel, and (3) public transportation, if available. My original comment was that I found $20.00 better that the alleged $50.00 on the cab meter.

Byron

—– Original Message —–
From: Charles Galway
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 12:17 AM
Subject: Re: [runacc] Shuttle rates

We had been getting prices quoted of about $26 one-way, with additional reductions for multiple passengers. While annoying, I considered this to be acceptable, IF the hotel, food, membership, air-fares were all at a reasonable rate. (Which we’re trying to do.) We plan to post current rates later, closer to one year out. (and maybe work out a group rate.)
Charles CC-23

—–Original Message—–
From: Byron Connell <bconnel1@nycap.rr.com>
<snip>
I have been happy to pay a flat $20 for a cab from O’Hare to an off-airport hotel in the Chicago area, compared to the about $50 I understand would be run up on the meter.

Byron

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Byron & Betsy –
I stand corrected. Sorry about that.

Marty

Byron Connell wrote:

>
> CC 9 was February 15-18, 1991, according to the Costume-ConNections web site..
>
> Byron

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Tuesday, May 6, 2003, at 06:48 PM, Byron Connell wrote:

> Rather than an abstract idea of “reasonable,” you need to compare the
> shuttle rate against the alternatives, such as (1) the cost of renting
> a car at the airport/train station/bus station and driving to the
> hotel (and back), (2) the cab fare from the airport/etc. to the hotel,
> and (3) public transportation, if available. My original comment was
> that I found $20.00 better that the alleged $50.00 on the cab meter.

Exactly what I was trying to get to (but got distracted) in my earlier
note. There will be some sort of expense in getting to the con whether
you fly or drive.

This is not a cost the con can necessarily control, or should even have
responsibility for. If it’s not a controllable cost, agonizing over it
is pointless. Best to just list out alternatives.

—
andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen
http://www.bovil.com/
“It’s not pink; it’s peach-colored. Pink is tacky.” –Manfred Pfirsich
Marie Rommel

That’s what I get for flying instead of attending the meeting. I was just
thinking of “in the halls, in the function rooms” instead of “planning for
and assuring placement of.”

Elaine

Blessed are we who can laugh at ourselves, for we shall always be amused!

> On Tuesday, May 6, 2003, at 05:40 PM, Elaine Mami wrote:
> > Betsy, the only thing I can add to your list at this time is, for the
> > “during” section, availability of water!
>
> Well, the original idea was that the Bid/Before/During/After is a grid
> showing responsibilities of each department and when they come due, so
> water is:
>
> Hotel/Before making sure water service is detailed out in the contract
> Hotel/During making sure the hotel is living up to the contract
>
> Consuite/Before including water in the shopping list and is purchased
> Consuite/During ensuring that water remains cold and stocked.
>
> I’d actually place water as a detail item in the general
> responsibilities list for both Hotel and Consuite instead of in the
> Bid/Before/During/After grid. It’s the kind of thing the WSFS
> “Nitpicking & Flyspecking Committee” takes care of at WorldCon. The
> grid is more of a high-level planning calendar indicating when major
> deadlines and responsibilities fall due.
>
> —
> Andy Trembley, Bull-in-Drag
> The Bovine Illuminati (It’s the Cows, Inc.)
> http://www.bovil.com/
> Moo!
>
>
>
> View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> runacc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Actually, “water” is a fairly major item DURING the con for the members; therefore, it is an important item for inclusion in the guide. This is true not only in terms of set-ups for program items but more importantly in the masquerade green rooms, where it is a health and safety item. It may have to be specified in the hotel contract.

I do not know whether CC 21 had water set-ups for the green rooms. The absence of such set-ups for program items was very obvious, which suggests to me that it was not specified in the hotel contract.

Byron

—– Original Message —–
From: Andrew Trembley
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 9:09 PM
Subject: Re: [runacc] Outline from the White Board at CC21

On Tuesday, May 6, 2003, at 05:40 PM, Elaine Mami wrote:
> Betsy, the only thing I can add to your list at this time is, for the
> “during” section, availability of water!

Well, the original idea was that the Bid/Before/During/After is a grid
showing responsibilities of each department and when they come due, so
water is:

Hotel/Before making sure water service is detailed out in the contract
Hotel/During making sure the hotel is living up to the contract

Consuite/Before including water in the shopping list and is purchased
Consuite/During ensuring that water remains cold and stocked.

I’d actually place water as a detail item in the general
responsibilities list for both Hotel and Consuite instead of in the
Bid/Before/During/After grid. It’s the kind of thing the WSFS
“Nitpicking & Flyspecking Committee” takes care of at WorldCon. The
grid is more of a high-level planning calendar indicating when major
deadlines and responsibilities fall due.

—
Andy Trembley, Bull-in-Drag
The Bovine Illuminati (It’s the Cows, Inc.)
http://www.bovil.com/
Moo!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

It may to some extent be a controllable cost, if the concom can negotiate the fee with the service provider. In that case, the concom needs to have some accurate benchmarks to use in determining whether or not this is a service worth contracting for.

Byron

—– Original Message —–
From: Andrew Trembley
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 9:55 PM
Subject: Re: [runacc] Shuttle rates

On Tuesday, May 6, 2003, at 06:48 PM, Byron Connell wrote:
> Rather than an abstract idea of “reasonable,” you need to compare the
> shuttle rate against the alternatives, such as (1) the cost of renting
> a car at the airport/train station/bus station and driving to the
> hotel (and back), (2) the cab fare from the airport/etc. to the hotel,
> and (3) public transportation, if available. My original comment was
> that I found $20.00 better that the alleged $50.00 on the cab meter.

Exactly what I was trying to get to (but got distracted) in my earlier
note. There will be some sort of expense in getting to the con whether
you fly or drive.

This is not a cost the con can necessarily control, or should even have
responsibility for. If it’s not a controllable cost, agonizing over it
is pointless. Best to just list out alternatives.

—
andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen
http://www.bovil.com/
“It’s not pink; it’s peach-colored. Pink is tacky.” –Manfred Pfirsich
Marie Rommel

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Byron –

There were water set-ups in the greenroom, but there was a dearth of
glasses, so after the masquerade when I really needed a drink of water,
there were no clean glasses to be had. I’m not sure they expected as many
folks in the greenrooms as they had.

Trudy

>From: “Byron Connell” <bconnel1@nycap.rr.com>
>Reply-To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
>To: <runacc@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: Re: [runacc] Outline from the White Board at CC21
>Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 23:51:18 -0400
>
>Actually, “water” is a fairly major item DURING the con for the members;
>therefore, it is an important item for inclusion in the guide. This is
>true not only in terms of set-ups for program items but more importantly in
>the masquerade green rooms, where it is a health and safety item. It may
>have to be specified in the hotel contract.
>
>I do not know whether CC 21 had water set-ups for the green rooms. The
>absence of such set-ups for program items was very obvious, which suggests
>to me that it was not specified in the hotel contract.
>
>Byron
>
>
> —– Original Message —–
> From: Andrew Trembley
> To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 9:09 PM
> Subject: Re: [runacc] Outline from the White Board at CC21
>
>
> On Tuesday, May 6, 2003, at 05:40 PM, Elaine Mami wrote:
> > Betsy, the only thing I can add to your list at this time is, for the
> > “during” section, availability of water!
>
> Well, the original idea was that the Bid/Before/During/After is a grid
> showing responsibilities of each department and when they come due, so
> water is:
>
> Hotel/Before making sure water service is detailed out in the contract
> Hotel/During making sure the hotel is living up to the contract
>
> Consuite/Before including water in the shopping list and is purchased
> Consuite/During ensuring that water remains cold and stocked.
>
> I’d actually place water as a detail item in the general
> responsibilities list for both Hotel and Consuite instead of in the
> Bid/Before/During/After grid. It’s the kind of thing the WSFS
> “Nitpicking & Flyspecking Committee” takes care of at WorldCon. The
> grid is more of a high-level planning calendar indicating when major
> deadlines and responsibilities fall due.
>
> —
> Andy Trembley, Bull-in-Drag
> The Bovine Illuminati (It’s the Cows, Inc.)
> http://www.bovil.com/
> Moo!
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

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The following are my replies/comments to various issues brought up on this
list over the last couple of days. My apologies for not quoting the
sources, but I am already losing track.

Volunteers

I was one of the people who found volunteering at CC21 very difficult. In
this case, the volunteer co-ordinators had assumed that the MD’s for each
show had already put their entire staff together and the co-ordinators were
therefore only looking for general gophers. I am guessing this assumption
was based on local traditions. I think it also put a strain on the
masquerade staff who were expecting the traditional walk-in volunteers to
make up their numbers. This would be a communication issue because it looks
like both sides made assumptions based on prior experience.

Volunteering is a difficult challenge for all conventions. At CC’s it is
especially difficult to get walk-in volunteers for non-masquerade related
jobs, because the masquerade is what our members are used to being
volunteers for at all other conventions. Therefore it helps to have some
labour-intensive departments (such as registration and security) work at
pre-recruiting staff. This would also help get the instructions to the
volunteers before they start doing their jobs.

Date

We, (CC19) chose the Memorial day weekend (which is not a holiday in Canada)
specifically because of weather considerations. We were trying to market
Calgary and the surrounding area as an interesting place to visit, and
Calgary in February looks a lot less attractive than May. (Well, maybe not
May this year.) Locally, there was no problem with the non-holiday, but we
did run into conflict problems with some of the U.S. conventions the same
weekend.

CC18 in Hartford was in a great downtown location, but because it was a
holiday weekend, everything was closed.

Hotel

I would suggest that future committees provide specific room layouts to the
hotel well before the con. We established what risers were available back
when we first signed our hotel contract. Layouts for every room for every
hour of the convention had to be initialed both by myself and a hotel
representative a week before the convention. This included maps we provided
to the hotel of the expected layout for both the stage and the Dealers’
room.

We also specified water in the rooms, although there was no issue over this.
I would recommend including it though. It is one of those little things
that is far more noticeable in its absence than its presence.

For those upcoming cons on this list that have not yet signed a hotel
contract, the clause that saved us the most was the one we had removed. The
hotel originally included a clause that would have required us to pay for
the rooms in our block booking that were not filled. This is the issue we
chose to fight over and the clause was removed from the contract we signed.
(Two years later the hotel was bought by a new chain who wanted us to sign a
new contract, siting the extra room charges we would be liable for as the
reason we should renegotiate. By being able to stick to our original
contract, we saved a lot of the additional costs the new contract would have
forced on us.)

Dining guide

This is an excellent suggestion about a small but incredibly useful detail.
In most cases attendees are in a completely unknown location, and many have
no access to vehicles. A restaurant guide covering what is available nearby
is so useful. (Henry provided something like one on the internet before
CC21, but I don’t remember seeing one available at con.)

Site selection

I strongly agree with this one. I wish I had argued more for some sort of
receipt. Since U.S.$ cheques are not an option for me, I voted with cash
and have nothing to prove it.

From the point of view of the CC receiving the money, multiple layered
receipts are incredibly useful. First, there are two written records of the
names of the people that have voted, the ballot and the receipt. Many
people can be very sloppy even printing their own name. Second, you have
the peace of mind knowing that if someone comes up to you and waves a
receipt saying that you have a financial obligation to them, you have an
exact copy of the same receipt in your records. The accountant in me always
wants the future auditor of my records to be able to follow a reasonable
audit trail. (An audit is required of all Alberta non-profit organizations
to keep that status, although it is not required that the auditor be a
professional or be paid a fee. Is this also a requirement of U.S.
non-profit status groups?)

Eileen Capes

Eileen–

Thanks for your insights.

At 12:13 AM 5/7/2003 -0600, you wrote:

>This would be a communication issue because it looks
>like both sides made assumptions based on prior experience.

CC-21 had communication issues overall, so this does not surprise me in the
least.

>Therefore it helps to have some
>labour-intensive departments (such as registration and security) work at
>pre-recruiting staff. This would also help get the instructions to the
>volunteers before they start doing their jobs.

I don’t think I’ve ever had volunteers working Reg, unless they were locals
and I knew them well.

Pre-recruitment in these departments is an *excellent* idea.

>Locally, there was no problem with the non-holiday, but we
>did run into conflict problems with some of the U.S. conventions the same
>weekend.

Again, we’re bound to conflict with something somewhere because there are
so many other events out there, especially because Costume-Con has the
Historical component (so there are more events to conflict with than just
S/F conventions).

>CC18 in Hartford was in a great downtown location, but because it was a
>holiday weekend, everything was closed.

Ditto other Costume-Cons. DItto other S/F cons. I was grateful that many
restaurants were open around the CC-21 hotel for at east part of the day on
Easter Sunday.

>Hotel

Very good suggestions here.

>Dining guide

I know many larger S/F cons (particularly WorldCon) supply this to their
members, and it *is* a very handy item.

>(Henry provided something like one on the internet before
>CC21, but I don’t remember seeing one available at con.)

Again, we can’t rely 100% on the Internet to supply information to members.

>Site selection
>
>I strongly agree with this one. I wish I had argued more for some sort of
>receipt. Since U.S.$ cheques are not an option for me, I voted with cash
>and have nothing to prove it.

Yikes. I hope this does not cause you problems down the road.

Betsy, is there language in the Site Selection process that specifies
giving receipts? If not, it is an oversight and needs to be be there.

When voting for Site Selection at many a WesterCon and WorldCon, there was
either a separate receipt, or a portion of the ballot that was removable
and became a receipt.

> From the point of view of the CC receiving the money, multiple layered
>receipts are incredibly useful.

And a simple receipt book that makes carbon copies (available at any office
supply store) would suffice for this job–no need to print fancy NCR forms.

–Karen

You’re right – there are some areas at a CC where the volunteers just
aren’t there so it will be CC staff, which may be needed elsewhere
depending on what else is going on.

Is it a possibility that this could be factored in, and some reward
(much like SF cons) be given to CC volunteers who volunteer for the
less glamorous work? Might have to strike a deal with other staff
members, like MDs, but this might get a larger pool of volunteers.

Although it’s sometimes nice to find the Con Chair working con reg,
it shouldn’t be something we expect to see for two solid days every
CC. I noticed this at a couple of earlier CCs.

Sharon

Cliff and Eileen wrote:

>

<snip>>

> Volunteers
>
> I was one of the people who found volunteering at CC21 very difficult.

Bobby was going crazy in the Green Room for the F&SF Masquerade because
she couldn’t get Den Moms. There should be a volunteer sign-up sheet at
Registration possibly with jobs/events listed.

> Hotel
>
> I would suggest that future committees provide specific room layouts to the
> hotel well before the con. We established what risers were available back
> when we first signed our hotel contract. Layouts for every room for every
> hour of the convention had to be initialed both by myself and a hotel
> representative a week before the convention. This included maps we provided
> to the hotel of the expected layout for both the stage and the Dealers’
> room.

This is a MUST DO or you have no recourse if the hotel doesn’t provide
what was promised.

>
> For those upcoming cons on this list that have not yet signed a hotel
> contract, the clause that saved us the most was the one we had removed. The
> hotel originally included a clause that would have required us to pay for
> the rooms in our block booking that were not filled. This is the issue we
> chose to fight over and the clause was removed from the contract we signed.
> (Two years later the hotel was bought by a new chain who wanted us to sign a
> new contract, siting the extra room charges we would be liable for as the
> reason we should renegotiate. By being able to stick to our original
> contract, we saved a lot of the additional costs the new contract would have
> forced on us.)

Except for a few flagship hotels, it seems that major city hotels change
ownership on the average of once every 5 years. It is for this reason
that the hotel contract must be almost anally detailed. When the hotel
is sold, your contract is one of the assets that the new owners
purchased, but frequently they don’t look at it this way and try to find
ways to squeeze extra money from the group and make it more profitable
by cutting back on the services promised. Once the hotel contract is
signed, the hotel liaison’s job just begins. He/She should contact the
hotel’s SMERF (Social, Military, Educational, Religious, Fraternal)
group person on a regular basis, at least quarterly during the years
leading up to the con and monthly for the 12 months immediately prior to
the con to make certain that nothing has changed e.g. that the hotel
hasn’t decided to do major renovations the week of the con, and that the
key people are still in place.

^M^

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Toni Lay just posted this to the ICG-D list, and I thought it was worthy of
our attention.

There were an awful lot of newbies wandering around Thursday and Friday
night of CC-21, looking lost.

–Karen

>To: ICG-D@yahoogroups.com
>From: Ricky & Karen Dick <castleb@pulsenet.com>
>Subject: Re: [ICG-D] Welcoming Newcomers
>
>At 12:36 PM 5/7/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>>I think the Friday Night Social is the best time to pull newcomers into the
>>fold. Thought they may have been to SF or Anime cons, which have certain
>>”procedures” they’re familiar with, Costume Con may be totally uncertain to
>>them. I think a nice gesture would be to have a table, prominently situated
>>at the party with a sign and two or three CC veterans seated there, and
>>newcomers could come over and chat, find out things, get a feel for the con.
>>
>>I remember my first Friday Night Social at my first CC. It was CC 3. I got
>>all dressed up in a caftan I made and was rather proud of it. I actually
>>got the print matched up. I got to the door of the function room and
>>stopped. The costumes some people were wearing was gorgeous. I was so
>>embarrased at my simple caftan, I immediately turned around, went back to my
>>room and changed back into my jeans and t-shirt, and went back to the party.
>>I’d never seen costumes of that quality at any of the SF and Trek cons I’d
>>previously attended. Obviously, CCs operated on a higher plane.
>>
>>Toni
>>
>>—–Original Message—–
>>From: MicheleSol@aol.com [mailto:MicheleSol@aol.com]
>>Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 11:20 PM
>>To: ICG-D@yahoogroups.com
>>Subject: Re: [ICG-D] Digest Number 1080 sorry forgot question
>>
>>
>>After speaking with someone, I thought I’d ask, is there anything we can do
>>to help people new to CC’s to feel more included. So it’s not so
>>intimidating to be surrounded by “Costumers”. Maybe something for them in
>>terms of a panel etc? Get to know kind of thing?
>>
>>
>>Michele
>>
>>
>>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>>ICG-D-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>>
>>
>>
>>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>>
>>
>>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>>ICG-D-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>>
>>
>>
>>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

On Tuesday, May 6, 2003, at 11:13 PM, Cliff and Eileen wrote:

> Volunteers
>
> I was one of the people who found volunteering at CC21 very difficult.
> In
> this case, the volunteer co-ordinators had assumed that the MD’s for
> each
> show had already put their entire staff together and the co-ordinators
> were
> therefore only looking for general gophers. I am guessing this
> assumption
> was based on local traditions. I think it also put a strain on the
> masquerade staff who were expecting the traditional walk-in volunteers
> to
> make up their numbers. This would be a communication issue because it
> looks
> like both sides made assumptions based on prior experience.

This is probably an accurate assessment.

> Volunteering is a difficult challenge for all conventions. At CC’s it
> is
> especially difficult to get walk-in volunteers for non-masquerade
> related
> jobs, because the masquerade is what our members are used to being
> volunteers for at all other conventions. Therefore it helps to have
> some
> labour-intensive departments (such as registration and security) work
> at
> pre-recruiting staff. This would also help get the instructions to the
> volunteers before they start doing their jobs.

I’m going to agree with pre-recruitment for non-masquerade related
jobs. Of course, I’m going to encourage people to pre-recruit for all
jobs if possible. Having worked Folsom Fringe, we’re kind of blessed
with the culture of volunteering that is such a big part of con fandom.
For Fringe, we had to pre-recruit all volunteers and offer major
incentives just to get them to sign up, because we knew we couldn’t
depend on at-conference volunteers for much of anything.

As an answer to both issues, I’m going to suggest that masquerade
registration and the volunteer desk be placed near each other. This
would help in the following ways:
1. Masquerade staffing is the largest portion of volunteer use. Having
the Masq directors and the Volunteer Coordinator near each other can
make it much easier on the Masquerade director, both in checking in
volunteers and adding jobs to the list that need to be filled. I know
that checking in volunteers was less of a priority for me at the Masq
desk than checking in entrants.
2. Henry made the point at the Build-a-CC panel that a master personnel
scheduler would have been really valuable to determine who is on duty
when. It’s also important in determining when people are available for
jobs in the first place. And finally, it’s important if the con should
choose to reward volunteers for their hours served.

Related to that, Masquerade registration desk is busy, and it need not
be near con registration. The two together can really cause a traffic
jam. This wasn’t a problem for me at CC21, but it might have been for
reg.

> Site selection
>
> I strongly agree with this one. I wish I had argued more for some
> sort of
> receipt. Since U.S.$ cheques are not an option for me, I voted with
> cash
> and have nothing to prove it.

I like the WorldCon ballot format, and would heartily recommend it. As
I remember, this is how it works:

Each ballot is three pieces (one page folded in thirds). Each piece has
a control number on it. The top piece has the voter’s contact
information. The middle piece has the ballot itself. The third piece is
the voter’s receipt.

At the first station, the cashier validates and pulls the top (contact)
portion, takes the cash, and initials the receipt. At the second
station, the poll worker validates the ballot, initials the receipt,
separates the portions and places the ballot in the ballot box. The
final portion is returned to the voter.

The ballots are counted, and I believe retained by the site selection
commissioner. The vote is validated and the contact forms and funds are
given to the winning committee. The winning committee never receives
the actual ballots, so they don’t know who voted for, against, or no
preference.

The voter can, at any point, confirm with either the site selection
commissioner or with the concom that they voted because both have
records that have the same control number as their receipt.

Control numbers can be pre-printed on the sheets, or (in the case of
CC, where it’s a small vote) written in or stamped on by the cashier.

If you would like the official way of handling this, I know the Site
Selection Commissioner from ConJose and ConAgerie (Westercon). I’m sure
he can fill in the information that’s not in the WSFS Constitution or
the LASFS Constitution.

andy

—
andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen
http://www.bovil.com/
“It’s not pink; it’s peach-colored. Pink is tacky.” –Manfred Pfirsich
Marie Rommel

At CC21, I know that it was one of the things that was in our contract. They
told us that they had discontinued the airport shuttle service, but they did
that after it was in our contract.

Henry Osier

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 5/7/2003 10:21:43 AM Central Daylight Time,
s_trembley@yahoo.com writes:

> Although it’s sometimes nice to find the Con Chair working con reg,
> it shouldn’t be something we expect to see for two solid days every
> CC.

Sharon,
I also did Pre-Reg, so logically, I should have done Reg at the Con.
I was too busy running around keeping an eye on everything.
Henry Osier

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Karen —

At this point, I suggest that we include these ideas in the “CC Runners’ Guide” before you add any of them to the ConStitution. Let’s see which ones are appropriate for guidance and which ones have to be requirements. The danger is that you might make the ConStitution unwieldy.

Byron

—– Original Message —–
From: Ricky & Karen Dick
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2003 10:44 AM
Subject: Re: [runacc] Various Points

Eileen–

Thanks for your insights.

At 12:13 AM 5/7/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>This would be a communication issue because it looks
>like both sides made assumptions based on prior experience.

CC-21 had communication issues overall, so this does not surprise me in the
least.

>Therefore it helps to have some
>labour-intensive departments (such as registration and security) work at
>pre-recruiting staff. This would also help get the instructions to the
>volunteers before they start doing their jobs.

I don’t think I’ve ever had volunteers working Reg, unless they were locals
and I knew them well.

Pre-recruitment in these departments is an *excellent* idea.

>Locally, there was no problem with the non-holiday, but we
>did run into conflict problems with some of the U.S. conventions the same
>weekend.

Again, we’re bound to conflict with something somewhere because there are
so many other events out there, especially because Costume-Con has the
Historical component (so there are more events to conflict with than just
S/F conventions).

>CC18 in Hartford was in a great downtown location, but because it was a
>holiday weekend, everything was closed.

Ditto other Costume-Cons. DItto other S/F cons. I was grateful that many
restaurants were open around the CC-21 hotel for at east part of the day on
Easter Sunday.

>Hotel

Very good suggestions here.

>Dining guide

I know many larger S/F cons (particularly WorldCon) supply this to their
members, and it *is* a very handy item.

>(Henry provided something like one on the internet before
>CC21, but I don’t remember seeing one available at con.)

Again, we can’t rely 100% on the Internet to supply information to members.

>Site selection
>
>I strongly agree with this one. I wish I had argued more for some sort of
>receipt. Since U.S.$ cheques are not an option for me, I voted with cash
>and have nothing to prove it.

Yikes. I hope this does not cause you problems down the road.

Betsy, is there language in the Site Selection process that specifies
giving receipts? If not, it is an oversight and needs to be be there.

When voting for Site Selection at many a WesterCon and WorldCon, there was
either a separate receipt, or a portion of the ballot that was removable
and became a receipt.

> From the point of view of the CC receiving the money, multiple layered
>receipts are incredibly useful.

And a simple receipt book that makes carbon copies (available at any office
supply store) would suffice for this job–no need to print fancy NCR forms.

–Karen

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Especially since the person in the SMERF position is likely to change a minimum of three times over the three years until the con.

Byron

—– Original Message —–
From: Martin Gear
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2003 11:36 AM
Subject: Re: [runacc] Various Points

Once the hotel contract is
signed, the hotel liaison’s job just begins. He/She should contact the
hotel’s SMERF (Social, Military, Educational, Religious, Fraternal)
group person on a regular basis, at least quarterly during the years
leading up to the con and monthly for the 12 months immediately prior to
the con to make certain that nothing has changed e.g. that the hotel
hasn’t decided to do major renovations the week of the con, and that the
key people are still in place.

^M^

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tina and I were wandering around on Thursday, looking lost, until she left on the shopping tour. I still was wandering around, looking lost, after she was gone!

Aside from that, I agree that it is desirable for a CC to have people who will reach out to neos. Some other Costume-Cons have done that; some of it has been reported to have been successful.

Byron

—– Original Message —–
From: Ricky & Karen Dick
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2003 2:13 PM
Subject: [runacc] Fwd: Re: [ICG-D] Welcoming Newcomers

Toni Lay just posted this to the ICG-D list, and I thought it was worthy of
our attention.

There were an awful lot of newbies wandering around Thursday and Friday
night of CC-21, looking lost.

–Karen

>To: ICG-D@yahoogroups.com
>From: Ricky & Karen Dick <castleb@pulsenet.com>
>Subject: Re: [ICG-D] Welcoming Newcomers
>
>At 12:36 PM 5/7/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>>I think the Friday Night Social is the best time to pull newcomers into the
>>fold. Thought they may have been to SF or Anime cons, which have certain
>>”procedures” they’re familiar with, Costume Con may be totally uncertain to
>>them. I think a nice gesture would be to have a table, prominently situated
>>at the party with a sign and two or three CC veterans seated there, and
>>newcomers could come over and chat, find out things, get a feel for the con.
>>
>>I remember my first Friday Night Social at my first CC. It was CC 3. I got
>>all dressed up in a caftan I made and was rather proud of it. I actually
>>got the print matched up. I got to the door of the function room and
>>stopped. The costumes some people were wearing was gorgeous. I was so
>>embarrased at my simple caftan, I immediately turned around, went back to my
>>room and changed back into my jeans and t-shirt, and went back to the party.
>>I’d never seen costumes of that quality at any of the SF and Trek cons I’d
>>previously attended. Obviously, CCs operated on a higher plane.
>>
>>Toni
>>
>>—–Original Message—–
>>From: MicheleSol@aol.com [mailto:MicheleSol@aol.com]
>>Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 11:20 PM
>>To: ICG-D@yahoogroups.com
>>Subject: Re: [ICG-D] Digest Number 1080 sorry forgot question
>>
>>
>>After speaking with someone, I thought I’d ask, is there anything we can do
>>to help people new to CC’s to feel more included. So it’s not so
>>intimidating to be surrounded by “Costumers”. Maybe something for them in
>>terms of a panel etc? Get to know kind of thing?
>>
>>
>>Michele

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

When I run a green room, I depend on members volunteering on-site. I don’t think I ever have had more than one pre-assigned green room volunteer. I post a volunteer sign-up sheet at masquerade registration (or con registration at a Costume-Con) and check it regularly (about every five minutes).

There is a Great Floating North American Masquerade Crew and I depend on it. Generally, they come through, not merely in numbers but in terms of volunteers who have worked green rooms several times before and are very familiar with several of the jobs. I don’t even have to brief some of them! As Janet Anderson pointed out years ago, master costumers who are not in the masquerade have an obligation to help run it. We’ve surprised many novices whose den moms were masters.

I would trust several of these people to take over the green room — or even all of back stage — at any con (although a few of them are in denial about their competence to do so) — the list has grown over the past several years, I’m delighted to say. I’m more than happy to provide references for them. This is one area where we have been fairly successful in recruiting new blood.

Sometimes the number of volunteers is sparse because so many costumers are in the masquerade. If necessary, the green room manager adapts to the number at hand, supplemented, if possible, by untrained gophers from the con’s general pool of volunteers. That may mean fewer and larger dens, for example, or doing without mother’s helpers, or doubling jobs up, but we can cope.

Byron

—– Original Message —–
From: Andrew Trembley
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2003 2:34 PM
Subject: Re: [runacc] Various Points

On Tuesday, May 6, 2003, at 11:13 PM, Cliff and Eileen wrote:
> Volunteers
>
> I was one of the people who found volunteering at CC21 very difficult.
> In
> this case, the volunteer co-ordinators had assumed that the MD’s for
> each
> show had already put their entire staff together and the co-ordinators
> were
> therefore only looking for general gophers. I am guessing this
> assumption
> was based on local traditions. I think it also put a strain on the
> masquerade staff who were expecting the traditional walk-in volunteers
> to
> make up their numbers. This would be a communication issue because it
> looks
> like both sides made assumptions based on prior experience.

This is probably an accurate assessment.

> Volunteering is a difficult challenge for all conventions. At CC’s it
> is
> especially difficult to get walk-in volunteers for non-masquerade
> related
> jobs, because the masquerade is what our members are used to being
> volunteers for at all other conventions. Therefore it helps to have
> some
> labour-intensive departments (such as registration and security) work
> at
> pre-recruiting staff. This would also help get the instructions to the
> volunteers before they start doing their jobs.

I’m going to agree with pre-recruitment for non-masquerade related
jobs. Of course, I’m going to encourage people to pre-recruit for all
jobs if possible. Having worked Folsom Fringe, we’re kind of blessed
with the culture of volunteering that is such a big part of con fandom.
For Fringe, we had to pre-recruit all volunteers and offer major
incentives just to get them to sign up, because we knew we couldn’t
depend on at-conference volunteers for much of anything.

As an answer to both issues, I’m going to suggest that masquerade
registration and the volunteer desk be placed near each other. This
would help in the following ways:
1. Masquerade staffing is the largest portion of volunteer use. Having
the Masq directors and the Volunteer Coordinator near each other can
make it much easier on the Masquerade director, both in checking in
volunteers and adding jobs to the list that need to be filled. I know
that checking in volunteers was less of a priority for me at the Masq
desk than checking in entrants.
2. Henry made the point at the Build-a-CC panel that a master personnel
scheduler would have been really valuable to determine who is on duty
when. It’s also important in determining when people are available for
jobs in the first place. And finally, it’s important if the con should
choose to reward volunteers for their hours served.

Related to that, Masquerade registration desk is busy, and it need not
be near con registration. The two together can really cause a traffic
jam. This wasn’t a problem for me at CC21, but it might have been for
reg.

andy

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I agree with this statement for everything except the codification of
providing receipts for the Site Selection process. It is an oversight,
and needs to be corrected.

If you want, I’ll look into the existing language and make suggestions
for changes after I’m done with the web site overhaul. (I spent the
whole evening moving books and videos, and ripping up more carpet.)

Yuck.

Betsy

Byron Connell wrote:

>
> Karen —
>
> At this point, I suggest that we include these ideas in the “CC Runners’ Guide” before you add any of them to the ConStitution. Let’s see which ones are appropriate for guidance and which ones have to be requirements. The danger is that you might make the ConStitution unwieldy.
>
> Byron

—
Betsy R. Delaney
Web Mistress at large

************************************************************************
http://www.WebInvent.com/ * http://www.hawkeswood.com/
http://www.Costume-Con.org/ * http://www.sickpups.org/
http://www.SchoolWithoutWalls.org/
************************************************************************

Henry —

No, you shouldn’t. There should have been someone — other than a co-chair — assigned to be in charge of registration. The co-chair should either (1) float and handle problems, as you did, or (2) stand around and look elegant.

This is part of the reason CC21 had too small a con-com, as I have mentioned already.

Byron

—- Original Message —–
From: henryosier@cs.com
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2003 4:00 PM
Subject: Re: [runacc] Volunteers (was Various Points)

I also did Pre-Reg, so logically, I should have done Reg at the Con.
I was too busy running around keeping an eye on everything.
Henry Osier

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I want the receipts codified in the ConStitution. That’s the only thing
we’ve been discussing that I want there vs. in the Guide at the moment, as
giving receipts should be part of the process, and if it hasn’t been
spelled out, it should be.

–Karen

At 10:48 PM 5/7/2003 -0400, you wrote:

>I agree with this statement for everything except the codification of
>providing receipts for the Site Selection process. It is an oversight,
>and needs to be corrected.
>
>If you want, I’ll look into the existing language and make suggestions
>for changes after I’m done with the web site overhaul. (I spent the
>whole evening moving books and videos, and ripping up more carpet.)
>
>Yuck.
>
>Betsy
>
>Byron Connell wrote:
> >
> > Karen —
> >
> > At this point, I suggest that we include these ideas in the “CC
> Runners’ Guide” before you add any of them to the ConStitution. Let’s
> see which ones are appropriate for guidance and which ones have to be
> requirements. The danger is that you might make the ConStitution unwieldy.
> >
> > Byron
>
>–
>Betsy R. Delaney
>Web Mistress at large
>
>************************************************************************
> http://www.WebInvent.com/ * http://www.hawkeswood.com/
> http://www.Costume-Con.org/ * http://www.sickpups.org/
> http://www.SchoolWithoutWalls.org/
>************************************************************************
>
>
>View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>runacc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

First Rule of being Con Chair: Delegate, delegate, delegate!

Of course, you have to *have* Division Heads to delegate to…

Too few people wearing too many hats doth not a happy concom make.

–Karen

At 11:18 PM 5/7/2003 -0400, you wrote:

>Henry —
>
>No, you shouldn’t. There should have been someone — other than a
>co-chair — assigned to be in charge of registration. The co-chair should
>either (1) float and handle problems, as you did, or (2) stand around and
>look elegant.
>
>This is part of the reason CC21 had too small a con-com, as I have
>mentioned already.
>
>Byron
>
>
>
>—- Original Message —–
> From: henryosier@cs.com
> To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2003 4:00 PM
> Subject: Re: [runacc] Volunteers (was Various Points)
>
>
> I also did Pre-Reg, so logically, I should have done Reg at the Con.
> I was too busy running around keeping an eye on everything.
> Henry Osier
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>runacc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Every CC but one that was in February had weather/travel issues for us, and
it didn’t matter if we drove or flew. CC 6 and 8 we drove – had to detour
for snow both times. CC 9, 11, 12 our flights were messed up by weather
somewhere. CC18 we didn’t have weather issues, but there were food issues
(hotel restaurant not available because of Valentine’s day, nothing else
w/n walking distance but one Chinese place, which was also closed for
Chinese New Year).

P & S

>I clearly
>remember the President’s Day weekend snows messing up several cons due to
>travel conditions.
>
>Elaine

“Those Who Fail To Learn History
Are Doomed To Repeat It;
Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly–
Why They Are Simply Doomed.”

Achemdro’hm
“The Illusion of Historical Fact”
— C.Y. 4971

Andromeda

Wrong year – not CC 18, but CC 17 (Philly/NJ).

P & S

At 10:53 PM 5/6/2003, you wrote:

>Every CC but one that was in February had weather/travel issues for us, and
>it didn’t matter if we drove or flew. CC 6 and 8 we drove – had to detour
>for snow both times. CC 9, 11, 12 our flights were messed up by weather
>somewhere. CC18 we didn’t have weather issues, but there were food issues
>(hotel restaurant not available because of Valentine’s day, nothing else
>w/n walking distance but one Chinese place, which was also closed for
>Chinese New Year).
>
>P & S

“Those Who Fail To Learn History
Are Doomed To Repeat It;
Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly–
Why They Are Simply Doomed.”

Achemdro’hm
“The Illusion of Historical Fact”
— C.Y. 4971

Andromeda

For CC10, I think our con-com was 6 people, two of which were us. We did
hotel liaison, publications (because we were the only ones with a
computer), quartermaster, con chairs, etc., etc.

What saved our behinds at con reg was the Lincoln Convention and Visitors
Bureau. They provided the badges and badge holders at no charge, and 2-3
volunteers to run the registration desk every day of the con. Mostly they
were retired ladies and they had (AFAWK) a good time. We let them attend
whatever evening events they wanted as a reward. CVB also provided coupons,
maps, etc. I think this is a sometimes unexplored resource.

P & S

> > Although it’s sometimes nice to find the Con Chair working con reg,
> > it shouldn’t be something we expect to see for two solid days every
> > CC.
>Sharon,
> I also did Pre-Reg, so logically, I should have done Reg at the
> Con.
>I was too busy running around keeping an eye on everything.
>Henry Osier

“Those Who Fail To Learn History
Are Doomed To Repeat It;
Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly–
Why They Are Simply Doomed.”

Achemdro’hm
“The Illusion of Historical Fact”
— C.Y. 4971

Andromeda

Another largely unexploited resource is the mundane or non-costuming
fannish friends of the concom. Most of ’em would be happy to work a shift
at the Registration table in exchange for free admission to the
masquerades, etc. in the evening.

I don’t think CC is large enough to absorb crash space for volunteers
(although the San Diego Comic-Con did when it was at the 500-1,000 person
size), but maybe there are other “perks” we can offer–special
volunteer-only t-shirts or other goodies.

–Karen

At 01:03 AM 5/8/2003 -0500, you wrote:

>What saved our behinds at con reg was the Lincoln Convention and Visitors
>Bureau. They provided the badges and badge holders at no charge, and 2-3
>volunteers to run the registration desk every day of the con. Mostly they
>were retired ladies and they had (AFAWK) a good time. We let them attend
>whatever evening events they wanted as a reward. CVB also provided coupons,
>maps, etc. I think this is a sometimes unexplored resource.
>
>P & S

We did just this at CCXV. My friend Laurie was willing to work the
registration table, which was good because our pre-con registrar wanted
to be able to go play. So, when they arrived at the con, they brought
pre-printed badge stock, blank stock for at-con registrants, printed
lists of members and what everyone had paid, and Laurie took over at
that point. I have faith in her ability to manage money. She’s currently
my company bookkeeper (as well as a very good friend). We took in over
$3000 in cash that weekend, so having someone reliable was very
important.

We only had one incident where money did not appear to be collected, in
all the at-door collection, and that appeared to be a treasurer problem.
Laurie was just fine with not going to panels since her only interest
was in the masquerades.

We did a very heavy recruiting job for volunteers and offered pubs to
people who worked more than a certain number of hours for the whole
weekend. Our security detail was offered crash space inside the dealer
room area. The upper floor, where displays and meeting rooms were
located, was locked off at night at the elevator.

The main thing is, if you’re going to recruit from outside the
community, you have to be willing to provide some gimmes, and some are
cheaper than others.

Betsy

Ricky & Karen Dick wrote:

>
> Another largely unexploited resource is the mundane or non-costuming
> fannish friends of the concom. Most of ’em would be happy to work a shift
> at the Registration table in exchange for free admission to the
> masquerades, etc. in the evening.
>
> I don’t think CC is large enough to absorb crash space for volunteers
> (although the San Diego Comic-Con did when it was at the 500-1,000 person
> size), but maybe there are other “perks” we can offer–special
> volunteer-only t-shirts or other goodies.
>
> –Karen

—
Betsy R. Delaney
Web Mistress at large

************************************************************************
http://www.WebInvent.com/ * http://www.hawkeswood.com/
http://www.Costume-Con.org/ * http://www.sickpups.org/
http://www.SchoolWithoutWalls.org/
************************************************************************

On Tuesday, May 6, 2003, at 08:53 PM, Pierre & Sandy Pettinger wrote:

> CC18 we didn’t have weather issues, but there were food issues
> (hotel restaurant not available because of Valentine’s day, nothing
> else
> w/n walking distance but one Chinese place, which was also closed for
> Chinese New Year).

I see you already caught yourself on the #.

Yeah, that was a hotel from hell from the members’ point of view. Not
only were there no restaurants within walking distance, but there were
also no sidewalks. I expect that for those of us working, the Skokie
Doubletree was worse, but what it did have was good and plentiful food
on-site and near off-site.

What was supposed to happen CC17 weekend was the basketball All-Star
game in Philadelphia. What happened instead was the basketball strike.
Hotel nights suddenly became available and the Philly area Chamber of
Commerce (I think, it might have been the CVB or some other group)
decided to market the crap out of hotels and hotel restaurants for
Valentines Day to make up for the loss.

Gets back to the restaurant service clause (and liquidated damages).
Either the hotel contract or the secondary agreement has to include
restaurant service requirements, and if the restaurant is operated
independently has to be signed by a representative of the restaurant.

Offsite food is a serious consideration, though.

One of the hotels we’re considering for CC26 is the San Jose
Doubletree. Great function space (two 9.000 sq.ft. ballrooms, one with
17′ ceilings), plentiful parking, and a great deal of con experience.
The downside is there are few off-site restaurants within walking
distance. The nearest are 3-5 blocks away, and that’s a Coco’s, a
Denny’s, a McDonald’s and the two restaurants at the SJ Hyatt (about 6
blocks away). On-site food isn’t spectacular, but both the quality and
service has been getting better over the last few years.

We’re also considering the Santa Clara Mariott (where CC12 was) because
it’s also got plentiful function space (11,000 sq.ft. California
Ballroom) and parking, and because it’s near Mission College and the
Mercado Mall (which means plentiful food). The classy on-site
restaurant is fabulous, and the sports-bar restaurant is decent. What
it doesn’t have is a nearly 20 year history of hosting conventions.

andy

—
andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen
http://www.irlm.org/ – mailto:webmaster@irlm.org
“Anybody who takes this seriously deserves to”
— Donna Barr

> Tina and I were wandering around on Thursday, looking lost, until she left

on the shopping tour. I still was wandering around, looking lost, after she
was gone!

>
> Aside from that, I agree that it is desirable for a CC to have people who

will reach out to neos. Some other Costume-Cons have done that; some of it
has been reported to have been successful.

> Byron

There should be a welcoming or information point for <everyone> not just the
newbies. The location of whcih should be published in the last PR. I know
that a lot of people may spend their Thursday night sewing in their rooms
but having the registration packet or at least a pocket program at hand
let’s them plan ahead.

What neo-friendly ploys have people tried in the past? What worked?

Nora

Andy, We have set our con in a no-history-of-fan-cons hotel. While it would help to have that history, it’s not essential. But it’s important that they at least get an idea of what’s coming up, and are accepting of that. (The still won’t REALLY know.)

I have also noticed a lot of cons here that I spend a year or two talking to sales mangagers, and then all I see on the week-end are banquet and set-up staff. And usually the have been told to be helpful. (even if they weren’t given wholly accurate directions for set-up.)

Setting up the masquerade in the hotel would require good cooperation with the hotel.
Usually you can tell how stuffy a hotel is after talking to them for awhile.

(Oh, but ask me again in two years, if what I’ve said needs to be modified.)
Charles

—–Original Message—–
From: Andrew Trembley <attrembl@bovil.com>

<snip> What it doesn’t have is a nearly 20 year history of hosting conventions.

andy

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>What it doesn’t have is a nearly 20 year history of hosting conventions.

It was however, the hotel at which we held CC 12.

As I recall, the one really big facilities problem (I’m sure there were
assorted little ones) we had was that their electrical engineer/electrician
had a heart attack, and his backup was out of town and unreachable.

So there was a bunch of the concom along with the hotel management, staring
at the hookup panel where the ballroom electrical had to be connected for
the lights, sound etc, and there was *NO ONE* on the hotel staff qualified
and authorized to do so.

Suddenly the Goodrich Blimp floated down a nearby hallway, and when everyone
came back to the ballroom, the connections had magically appeared. (and of
course, since no one on the staff was authorized to touch the panel, no one
could disconnect them either).

So add “Making sure the hotel has backup staff plans for engineering” to our
to-do list for running a CC.

Kevin

We lifted an idea from local LARPs and provided a “What’s Going On
Here?” sheet, cheerfully distributed throughout the hotel and at the
front desk. Anyone who happened on the paper could read about why people
in costume were wandering around at the hotel all weekend.

We also held a “What’s going on this weekend” panel each morning of the
three main days (Friday, Saturday and Sunday). We got the hotel early
enough Friday to start programming near to 10am, and did just that, but
I think the Friday panel occurred around mid afternoon. I could be wrong
– I’d have to look at the actual program (and the box is still
upstairs).

Finally, we designated several people as “ambassadors” who were told to
watch out for unfamiliar faces at various times and make conversation. I
know I did that a little this year on Friday night, but I was so
distracted waiting for Dan and Erin to arrive (which they did,
eventually, very late), I wasn’t much fun to talk to even with the
people I already know.

I think in general the outreach was well received. YMMV.

Cheers,

Betsy

Charles Galway wrote:

>
> Andy, We have set our con in a no-history-of-fan-cons hotel. While it would help to have that history, it’s not essential. But it’s important that they at least get an idea of what’s coming up, and are accepting of that. (The still won’t REALLY know.)
>
> I have also noticed a lot of cons here that I spend a year or two talking to sales mangagers, and then all I see on the week-end are banquet and set-up staff. And usually the have been told to be helpful. (even if they weren’t given wholly accurate directions for set-up.)
>
> Setting up the masquerade in the hotel would require good cooperation with the hotel.
> Usually you can tell how stuffy a hotel is after talking to them for awhile.
>
> (Oh, but ask me again in two years, if what I’ve said needs to be modified.)
> Charles

—
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Web Mistress at large

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On Thursday, May 8, 2003, at 04:46 AM, Bruce & Nora Mai wrote:

> What neo-friendly ploys have people tried in the past? What worked?

well, there’s the one you guys tried at CC16 😉

Having the consuite open on Thursday night, and having that information
prominently posted was really nice. While I came with a major caravan
and knew a few other people, the vast majority of folks at the con I
hadn’t ever met before.

The extremely silly social theme was also very non-threatening.

—
andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen
http://www.irlm.org/ – mailto:webmaster@irlm.org
“Anybody who takes this seriously deserves to”
— Donna Barr

On Thursday, May 8, 2003, at 03:38 PM, Charles Galway wrote:

> Andy, We have set our con in a no-history-of-fan-cons hotel. While
> it would help to have that history, it’s not essential. But it’s
> important that they at least get an idea of what’s coming up, and are
> accepting of that. (The still won’t REALLY know.)

The thing is that we have a contender that does have a huge history of
hosting conventions, and that’s a big pro in it’s column.

> I have also noticed a lot of cons here that I spend a year or two
> talking to sales managers, and then all I see on the week-end are
> banquet and set-up staff. And usually the have been told to be
> helpful. (even if they weren’t given wholly accurate directions for
> set-up.)

Sales will often sell you the sky and leave both you and the hotel
operations people screwed when the time comes. This is why the WorldCon
runner’s guide suggests that you include in your hotel contract (or
secondary agreement) a clause that says your sales representative will
be staying onsite at the hotel during the convention.

It’s also worth it to request that banquet management is available
during at least some of the meetings you have with the hotel
(particularly when working out set-up details). It’s really worth it to
ask that the managers who will be on duty during your weekend be
present in the last few meetings with the hotel leading up to the con.

—
andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen – http://www.bovil.com/
San Jose, CA – ’72 R75/5 ’86 R100 (mine) – ’92 K75sa ’03 R1150R
(Kevin’s)
“It’s not pink, it’s peach-colored. Pink is tacky.”
–Manfred Pfirsich Marie Rommel

2nd most important safety device on my bike: the one beneath my right
hand
Most important safety device on my bike: the one inside my helmet

> > What neo-friendly ploys have people tried in the past? What worked?
>
> well, there’s the one you guys tried at CC16 😉

For those of you who don’t know this, Andy and I met at the Thursday night
hospitality suite at CC16.

So it very definitely worked.

Kevin

We just recently looked at the website and the maps, etc. Unless I missed
something, is the hotel 2 blocks from the theatre where the masqs will be?

Bruce

I agree about trying to have both sales and set-up staff at a pre-event meeting.
I have also seen sales attempt to say yes to things they shouldn’t. They appear to come from a school that says “don’t say no to a customer”. But when it comes down to it, they might have to require so many extra fees, or some other problems, that the effective answer really should have been “no”. It helps to have experience, and a “sixth sense” what the hotel will be comfortable with.

An interesting situation about power at a con masquerade. One hotel had a big roll-out step-down transformer. Just plug it in the wall, and you get lots of twenty amp circuits. Just plug it in… It took about ten or twenty minutes for me to file off the high spots, in order to get it fully seated. (And the minimal set-up time clock was tickinig.) Be careful what you take for granted. The next year it had been replaced, and I double-checked it before the con.

Charles

—–Original Message—–
From: Andrew Trembley <attrembl@bovil.com>

<snip>

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On Thursday, May 8, 2003, at 04:51 PM, Charles Galway wrote:

> I agree about trying to have both sales and set-up staff at a
> pre-event meeting.
> I have also seen sales attempt to say yes to things they shouldn’t.
> They appear to come from a school that says “don’t say no to a
> customer”.

There is a variety of salescritter often found working in hotel sales
who will say anything to get the sale. This is followed up by, as you
mentioned, extra fees, trying to weasel out of the agreement, or just
dumping things on hotel operations. It’s not too unusual at a hotel to
find that the other departments hate the sales staff. Kyym (CC21’s
dealer coordinator) works in hotel operations and we had this
discussion over drinks at some point during the con.

Something that would be helpful I think would be a list of industry
standards and practices; i.e. what’s normally included gratis in the
costs of the hotel contract, what normally costs extra and price ranges.

With knowledge of industry standards and practices, it’s easier to go
in and press the sales person for costs and get them in the contract.
For example, if the contract says “risers to make the stage as
described in the secondary agreement included” then you can either
extort them into buying additional or new risers, or invoke the
liquidated damages clause and reduce your overall cost.

—
andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen – http://www.bovil.com/
San Jose, CA – ’72 R75/5 ’86 R100 (mine) – ’92 K75sa ’03 R1150R
(Kevin’s)
“It’s not pink, it’s peach-colored. Pink is tacky.”
–Manfred Pfirsich Marie Rommel

2nd most important safety device on my bike: the one beneath my right
hand
Most important safety device on my bike: the one inside my helmet

3-5 blocks isn’t walking distance, at least for me. 3 maybe, 5 definitely
not, especially with the time crunch we usually have for meals at CC.
Sandy

>One of the hotels we’re considering for CC26 is the San Jose
>Doubletree. Great function space (two 9.000 sq.ft. ballrooms, one with
>17′ ceilings), plentiful parking, and a great deal of con experience.
>The downside is there are few off-site restaurants within walking
>distance. The nearest are 3-5 blocks away, and that’s a Coco’s, a
>Denny’s, a McDonald’s and the two restaurants at the SJ Hyatt (about 6
>blocks away). On-site food isn’t spectacular, but both the quality and
>service has been getting better over the last few years.
>
>andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen

“Those Who Fail To Learn History
Are Doomed To Repeat It;
Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly–
Why They Are Simply Doomed.”

Achemdro’hm
“The Illusion of Historical Fact”
— C.Y. 4971

Andromeda

Seems to me this wasn’t the first time we’ve “hot-wired” a hotel for a
CC. CC’s 6 and 8 come to mind also.

P & S

>As I recall, the one really big facilities problem (I’m sure there were
>assorted little ones) we had was that their electrical engineer/electrician
>had a heart attack, and his backup was out of town and unreachable.
>
>So there was a bunch of the concom along with the hotel management, staring
>at the hookup panel where the ballroom electrical had to be connected for
>the lights, sound etc, and there was *NO ONE* on the hotel staff qualified
>and authorized to do so.
>
>Suddenly the Goodrich Blimp floated down a nearby hallway, and when everyone
>came back to the ballroom, the connections had magically appeared. (and of
>course, since no one on the staff was authorized to touch the panel, no one
>could disconnect them either).
>
>So add “Making sure the hotel has backup staff plans for engineering” to our
>to-do list for running a CC.
>
>Kevin

“Those Who Fail To Learn History
Are Doomed To Repeat It;
Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly–
Why They Are Simply Doomed.”

Achemdro’hm
“The Illusion of Historical Fact”
— C.Y. 4971

Andromeda

At 10:59 PM 5/8/2003 -0500, you wrote:

>Seems to me this wasn’t the first time we’ve “hot-wired” a hotel for a
>CC. CC’s 6 and 8 come to mind also.
>
>P & S

Yupper. CC-6’s was pretty scary. DIdn’t know CC-8 had a similar problem.

–Karen

Correct, but misleading. Those are considered half blocks.
http://www.marriott.com/dpp/map.asp?MarshaCode=SLCOG (for those that want to see the map)
The Ogden Marriott (con hotel) is in the middle of one block, along 24th Street. Head East from the hotel, cross one street, walk that half block, cross another street, and you are at the back door area of the Perry Egyptian Theater (and David Eccles Conference Center). (This Theater is along Highway 89 on the web-map, also called Washington Blvd.) It’s about a five minute walk from the Marriott.

While the transit is inconvient for rehearsals, and the evening shows, we thought it was worthwhile, due to the excellent facilities of the site. Tiered seating, stage lights, proscenium, good sound, great green room (big mirror, etc). The cost was reasonable compared to the cost and set-up of a hotel ballroom.

When we first bid for CC-21, we had not included the Theater, just the Ogden Marriott. Some costumers saw our bid materials, and suggested the the Egyptian Theater would be a good masquerade site. After thouroughly checking it out, it does seem to be a good idea, so we included it in our later bid materials (now CC-23)

It is close enough to walk, for a person, or a person with modest costuming, from the Marriott Hotel. For larger costumes, and other transit needs, we will need to supply a good transportation system.

To add to the considerations, a hotel (Ogden Plaza — sleeping room hotel) is now on the same block as the Theater, and even the David Eccles Conference Center. The Plaza Hotel was not available a few years ago, and the Coference center appeared to be too expensive.

I would be glad to hear additional comments on this issue. I’m sure that similar things have been tried with World-Con. I agree that this is an important point to work on, and I feel good about much of the rest of our site selection.
Charles CC-23

—–Original Message—–
From: Bruce & Nora Mai <casamai@sbcglobal.net>

We just recently looked at the website and the maps, etc. Unless I missed
something, is the hotel 2 blocks from the theatre where the masqs will be?

Bruce

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

It does remind me of the art show one time at a CONduit. No switch on the wall for that room, just some bare wires — and it’s getting on to later Friday afternoon…
Somehow a wire nut found it’s way onto those wires.
Charles

—–Original Message—–
From: Ricky & Karen Dick <castleb@pulsenet.com>

At 10:59 PM 5/8/2003 -0500, you wrote:

>Seems to me this wasn’t the first time we’ve “hot-wired” a hotel for a
>CC. CC’s 6 and 8 come to mind also.
>
>P & S

Yupper. CC-6’s was pretty scary. DIdn’t know CC-8 had a similar problem.

–Karen

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

It beats all hell out of the commute at NoLaCon! And the schlep through the
heat at Magicon couldn’t have been much fun, either.

Elaine

> Correct, but misleading. Those are considered half blocks.
> http://www.marriott.com/dpp/map.asp?MarshaCode=SLCOG (for those that want

to see the map)

> The Ogden Marriott (con hotel) is in the middle of one block, along 24th

Street. Head East from the hotel, cross one street, walk that half block,
cross another street, and you are at the back door area of the Perry
Egyptian Theater (and David Eccles Conference Center). (This Theater is
along Highway 89 on the web-map, also called Washington Blvd.) It’s about a
five minute walk from the Marriott.

>
> While the transit is inconvient for rehearsals, and the evening shows, we

thought it was worthwhile, due to the excellent facilities of the site.
Tiered seating, stage lights, proscenium, good sound, great green room (big
mirror, etc). The cost was reasonable compared to the cost and set-up of a
hotel ballroom.

>

Having schlepped in costume on foot at Denvention, NolaCon, and MagiCon,
the distance from the hotel to the Egyptian Theatre does not seem
outrageous for what looks like a VERY “worth it” venue.

–Karen

At 03:16 PM 5/9/2003 -0400, you wrote:

>It beats all hell out of the commute at NoLaCon! And the schlep through the
>heat at Magicon couldn’t have been much fun, either.
>
>Elaine
>
> > Correct, but misleading. Those are considered half blocks.
> > http://www.marriott.com/dpp/map.asp?MarshaCode=SLCOG (for those that want
>to see the map)
> > The Ogden Marriott (con hotel) is in the middle of one block, along 24th
>Street. Head East from the hotel, cross one street, walk that half block,
>cross another street, and you are at the back door area of the Perry
>Egyptian Theater (and David Eccles Conference Center). (This Theater is
>along Highway 89 on the web-map, also called Washington Blvd.) It’s about a
>five minute walk from the Marriott.
> >
> > While the transit is inconvient for rehearsals, and the evening shows, we
>thought it was worthwhile, due to the excellent facilities of the site.
>Tiered seating, stage lights, proscenium, good sound, great green room (big
>mirror, etc). The cost was reasonable compared to the cost and set-up of a
>hotel ballroom.
> >
>
>
>
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>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>runacc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
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