Exactly!

Other differences inclde the Future Fashion Show, where the real competition is in the designs, and the presentation is a chance to see how well you can interpret someone else’s designs. Traditionally the awards have been limited to 3 – best costume made by the designer, best made by someone else, and possibly Best In Show. Those 3 events go back to CC1, and are required at all CCs. The presentation is more like an actual fashion show, and if you can get a runway, so much the beter. It’s up to tech.

More recently the Single Pattern has been added, and that is totally pre-judged in the Green Room. Some of the patterns used have been bras & codpieces.

Other events have been added over the years – the doll competition & the quilt/wearable art show for some. Others have included The Iron Costumer competition (Ghods, what chaotic fun that was!) and the Costumers’ Runway show, which ran for 2 days of intense competition.

Besides events like Costume College – which is all learning, and very hard to get into – CCs are the only cons which are all costumeings all the time. With the rising through the roof costs of WorldCons, many of us only go to CCs lately.

They really ARE different!

In my experience, the CC SF&F Masquerade is in most ways similar to a

well-run high-level masquerade.

The Historical is different, because there has evolved an expectation that

all garments must be examined up close by all judges. This requires setting

up an interview schedule for all entries, which is quite different from the

way a “standard” masquerade is judged. (Personally, I’d like to see CC find

a space for the “I just want to go across the stage” kind of entry in the

historical, but that is a different discussion).

Elaine’s comments about the shared technical services is a good one,

although at Worldcon, the Hugos and Masquerade also usually share a setup.

Kevin

On Wed, Jun 5, 2013 at 12:49 PM, Jamie Butler <utopianqueen2000@yahoo.com>wrote:

> Thank you for putting this out here stace. I honestly was too terrified to

> ask myself after judging in this year’s st masq. I was all set to be CC34’s

> historical masquerade director and after reading the emails and seeing how

> passionate everyone got about what a CC masquerade should be, I’ve

> questioned if I should all together.

>

> Jamie Butler

> President of Madison Area Costuming Society

> Member of the Guilde of St George

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>

>

> ————————————

>

> View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/Yahoo!

> Groups Links

>

>

>

>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

You’ve been to Archon, CCs are not that different from Archon. Yet very different from some other conventions.

But back to Archon – a known quantity to you & Jamie. The only significant difference between Archon and a CC F&SF is that there are generally more awards at a CC. But not always, that can be affected by an MD or Con-Chair decision. Aside from that, Archon is very like if not better than a CC F&SF.

CC Historical is different in the breadth of judging; documentation, workmanship & stage are usually judged as three seperate portions of the masque. That is also not written in stone but becoming more of the “standard” for CCs aligning itself with the “excellence deserves recognition” credo.

Does that help?

Nora

— On Wed, 6/5/13, staceylee25 <staceylee25@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: staceylee25 <staceylee25@yahoo.com>
Subject: [runacc] Masquerades in general
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, June 5, 2013, 2:36 PM

Not that I want to derail the current topic entirely (it’s good to discuss, I’m reading avidly) but I’m reminded of something I’ve been intending to ask the runacc conclave for a few months now. No time like the present, given the topic.

While I’ve never personally directed a masquerade, I’ve competed in more than I can count, judged somewhere around 8-10, and lived in the same household as two directors, as well as been to 4 CCs now. I feel like I have a pretty good grasp of how a quality masquerade is run and judged. That’s not to say I’m not going to take a few steps to double-reassure myself but that’s not for this discussion. But given the foibles seen at CC31, which I’m also not going to review just now, there has been a lot of talk of “but CC is different!”

HOW different?

I want to know whether there are any actual structural, logistical differences between CostumeCon and any major genre convention that uses ICG guidelines (Archon, CONvergence, etc), or if the difference is only in expectations. Because when I break down the details, from where I sit, it looks like the way the masquerade is run is pretty much exactly the same as anything I’ve judged, competed in, or helped run. The only difference that I can see is that there are subjective expectations that differ from genre cons. And, anyone who has spent any length of time hanging around CC vets will pick up some of that subjectivity by listening to their opinions.

This matters to me because I wanted to know whether implementing a slightly different judging system and awards structure (while still adhering to the standard “Merit deserves reward” philosophy) would cause people to flip tables, or if it was up to the whim of the director. Informal surveying has only ever given me the answer “it’s up to the director.” And, it also matters because I’m concerned that costumers from younger chapters may not be encouraged to step up and become the next generation of CC directors, judges, and volunteers when they’re intimidated by talk of how different it is. If we continually dump masquerade responsibilities on the same vets every year, do we not risk burning them out while also not ever training up the next generation to take their place?

I’d like to hear general opinions on what the vets believe is so “different” about a CC masquerade compared to any midsize-to-large genre con that runs using ICG guidelines. I’m not talking about the popularity contests at GenCon or the ridiculous lack of standards for workmanship at rinky-dink first-year anime and relaxicons, I’m talking about competitions that are generally understood as being some of the best-run and best-judged. IS there a difference? If so, what IS the difference? Is it only in how people feel like the entrants should be treated? In how many awards should be given out? The atmosphere backstage? Or is there some kind of secret handshake that only CC directors know that has to be taught?

It’s not going to stop me from directing, but I’m curious to hear opinions.

Stace
MACS vp and CC34 secretary

————————————

View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/Yahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

That’s really up to each concom. I know of no general rule to that effect. Of course, it might be impossible for an entrant without at least a one-day membership to participate in tech rehearsal, which would make a day membership at least a de facto requirement.

Byron

On Jun 4, 2013, at 9:50 PM, bruno@soulmasque.com wrote:

> It has always been my understanding that to enter a masquerade, you
> have to have at least a one day membership for the day of the
> masquerade.
>
> Michael
>
> On 2013-06-04 04:16, Nora & Bruce Mai wrote:
> > You’d have to ask Henry but I know that one entrant at CC31 wanted to
> > just
> > enter the FSF and (I think) Henry told him that he’d probably have to
> > pay
> > for at least a one-day, Saturday.
> > I overheard part of this cause I was taking entrants for the SP right
> > next
> > to him, but he’d have to give you the factual details.
> >
> > Nora
> >
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Stace —

I ‘ve run SF masquerades at a CC and at regional cons and worldcons. I been to more than 20 CCs and I don’t think the CC SF masquerade is very different from that at a well-run regional sf con or a worldcon. One difference, as Elaine has noted, is that the MD doesn’t have to worry about finding and organizing tech, backstage, green room, official photography, and so forth. They’re usually the same for all events. (I volunteered to run the green room for all CC 34 events.) Usually, CC’s have a basic set of rules for all events, covering such things as no live mike and no peanut butter; these need not be included in the individual MD’s rules. Some CC’s have used the same MC for all events, too. Aside from that support, the contestant info and rules and the judges’ instructions are pretty much the same as at a regional con or worldcon. Where differences may arise is in the MD’s information and rules for entrants and judges. Some MDs may not have read carefully the Fairness Guidelines or may have decided to simplify their own rules (e.g., by collapsing skill divisions). That’s fine. The MD makes the rules and the ICG guidelines are just that: guidelines, not rules. However, when I ran Arisia and Philcon masquerades, as well as Anticipation and Chicon, I hewed to the terms of the guidelines very closely. Other MD’s have done so, too. I believe most experienced CC attendees would expect the SF MD to do so.

The historical masquerade, on the other hand, is rather different. I’ve run three of them and am running the next one. First, it’s the only one. Regional SF cons and worldcons may permit historical entries in their SF masquerades; however, those entries usually don’t really fit the masquerade’s theme or purpose. At CCs, the historical is the historical is the historical., It differs not only in topic but also in the approach the entrants take. While there are some who believe “historical” ought to be pronounced “hysterical” (I am one of them), humor is rare in historical entries (but see “The Battle of the Bulge” at CC 17: http://www.costume-con.org/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=3636&g2_page=2), group entries are less often seen, and the typical entry is one entrant presenting one recreation of a period garment.

In addition, the historical requires the entrants to prepare documentation in support of their entries and requires the judges to review and judge the documentation. In addition, every entrant is required to meet with the judges to review his or her workmanship, for mandatory judging (unlike the voluntary workmanship judging in an SF masquerade. This takes a huge amount of time for the judges, who usually are unable to do anything else on Sunday — and maybe Saturday, depending on how large the show becomes. The MD needs to manage the schedule to some extent and check periodically that the judging is reasonably on schedule (it often is not). As a result, the judges normally make awards in three independent categories: documentation, workmanship, and presentation on stage and it’s not unknown for the total of awards across the three categories to exceed the total of entries (even though some entries receive no awards).

Unlike for SF masquerades, the MD’s information and rules also must address the requirements for documentation as well as other aspects of the competition. See my info for the CC 32 historical as one example (http://costumecon32.com/programming-2014/competitions-events/historical-masquerade/). The Costume-Con web site (http://www.costume-con.org/gallery2/main.php) includes other sets of rules.

One general difference is that any any CC masquerade, the audience may be a bit sparse, as so many attendees are either entering the competition or helping to run it! 🙂

I hope this helps, please get back to us with your reactions, comments and questions. We all want 34 to be a success.

Byron

On Jun 5, 2013, at 3:36 PM, staceylee25 <staceylee25@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Not that I want to derail the current topic entirely (it’s good to discuss, I’m reading avidly) but I’m reminded of something I’ve been intending to ask the runacc conclave for a few months now. No time like the present, given the topic.
>
> While I’ve never personally directed a masquerade, I’ve competed in more than I can count, judged somewhere around 8-10, and lived in the same household as two directors, as well as been to 4 CCs now. I feel like I have a pretty good grasp of how a quality masquerade is run and judged. That’s not to say I’m not going to take a few steps to double-reassure myself but that’s not for this discussion. But given the foibles seen at CC31, which I’m also not going to review just now, there has been a lot of talk of “but CC is different!”
>
> HOW different?
>
> I want to know whether there are any actual structural, logistical differences between CostumeCon and any major genre convention that uses ICG guidelines (Archon, CONvergence, etc), or if the difference is only in expectations. Because when I break down the details, from where I sit, it looks like the way the masquerade is run is pretty much exactly the same as anything I’ve judged, competed in, or helped run. The only difference that I can see is that there are subjective expectations that differ from genre cons. And, anyone who has spent any length of time hanging around CC vets will pick up some of that subjectivity by listening to their opinions.
>
> This matters to me because I wanted to know whether implementing a slightly different judging system and awards structure (while still adhering to the standard “Merit deserves reward” philosophy) would cause people to flip tables, or if it was up to the whim of the director. Informal surveying has only ever given me the answer “it’s up to the director.” And, it also matters because I’m concerned that costumers from younger chapters may not be encouraged to step up and become the next generation of CC directors, judges, and volunteers when they’re intimidated by talk of how different it is. If we continually dump masquerade responsibilities on the same vets every year, do we not risk burning them out while also not ever training up the next generation to take their place?
>
> I’d like to hear general opinions on what the vets believe is so “different” about a CC masquerade compared to any midsize-to-large genre con that runs using ICG guidelines. I’m not talking about the popularity contests at GenCon or the ridiculous lack of standards for workmanship at rinky-dink first-year anime and relaxicons, I’m talking about competitions that are generally understood as being some of the best-run and best-judged. IS there a difference? If so, what IS the difference? Is it only in how people feel like the entrants should be treated? In how many awards should be given out? The atmosphere backstage? Or is there some kind of secret handshake that only CC directors know that has to be taught?
>
> It’s not going to stop me from directing, but I’m curious to hear opinions.
>
> Stace
> MACS vp and CC34 secretary
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jamie —

Don’t you dare bail! We need new blood and we haven’t executed an MD yet! I ran the historicals at 24, 25, and 29 and am running the one at 32. I’ll be happy to work with you and I’m confident other historical MDs will be, too.

See my comments on the historical in my response to Stace.

Byron

On Jun 5, 2013, at 3:49 PM, Jamie Butler <utopianqueen2000@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Thank you for putting this out here stace. I honestly was too terrified to ask myself after judging in this year’s st masq. I was all set to be CC34’s historical masquerade director and after reading the emails and seeing how passionate everyone got about what a CC masquerade should be, I’ve questioned if I should all together.
>
> Jamie Butler
> President of Madison Area Costuming Society
> Member of the Guilde of St George
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jamie,
This is exactly what I meant earlier: Attach yourself to Byron next year and you will learn a lot! Do the same at 33, because each MD has different ways to handle the same situations. It’s a good way to avoid silly mis-steps.
Elaine

>
>
> Jamie —
>
> Don’t you dare bail! We need new blood and we haven’t executed an MD yet! I ran the historicals at 24, 25, and 29 and am running the one at 32. I’ll be happy to work with you and I’m confident other historical MDs will be, too.
>
> See my comments on the historical in my response to Stace.
>
> Byron
>
>
> On Jun 5, 2013, at 3:49 PM, Jamie Butler <utopianqueen2000@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Thank you for putting this out here stace. I honestly was too terrified to ask myself after judging in this year’s st masq. I was all set to be CC34’s historical masquerade director and after reading the emails and seeing how passionate everyone got about what a CC masquerade should be, I’ve questioned if I should all together.
> >
> > Jamie Butler
> > President of Madison Area Costuming Society
> > Member of the Guilde of St George
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ————————————
>
> View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yes, definitely – we’re running the Historical for 33.

P & S

At 09:46 PM 6/5/2013, Elaine Mami wrote:

>Jamie,
>This is exactly what I meant earlier: Attach yourself to Byron next
>year and you will learn a lot! Do the same at 33, because each MD
>has different ways to handle the same situations. It’s a good way to
>avoid silly mis-steps.
>Elaine
>
> > Jamie —
> >
> > Don’t you dare bail! We need new blood and we haven’t executed an
> MD yet! I ran the historicals at 24, 25, and 29 and am running the
> one at 32. I’ll be happy to work with you and I’m confident other
> historical MDs will be, too.
> >
> > See my comments on the historical in my response to Stace.
> >
> > Byron
> >
> > On Jun 5, 2013, at 3:49 PM, Jamie Butler
> <<mailto:utopianqueen2000%40yahoo.com>utopianqueen2000@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Thank you for putting this out here stace. I honestly was too
> terrified to ask myself after judging in this year’s st masq. I was
> all set to be CC34’s historical masquerade director and after
> reading the emails and seeing how passionate everyone got about
> what a CC masquerade should be, I’ve questioned if I should all together.
> > >
> > > Jamie Butler
> > > President of Madison Area Costuming Society
> > > Member of the Guilde of St George

International Costumers’ Guild Archivist

http://www.costume.org/gallery2/main.php

“Those Who Fail to Learn History
Are Doomed to Repeat It;
Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly –
Why They Are Simply Doomed.”

Achemdro’hm
“The Illusion of Historical Fact”
— C. Y. 4971

Andromeda

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Okay, you’ve all convinced me. Thank you though. I didn’t get all the emails for some reason so ill have to read through the responses to staces questions, but you all have made me feel much more confident about this. I won’t be able to shadow the Toronto masquerades because I have 1/2 finished costumes for them I’ve been planning for awhile now, but I would like to shadow the Charleston one. I meant to ask  you when I was at cc31, but then I started doubting my ability and held off. There are a few other icg run masquerades o can shadow inbetween now and cc34; but I was still wondering, if I still feel this way in a year or two, would anyone be willing to just be my background person, like an assistant while I’m freaking out about running my first masquerade?

I just am a new face to many of you, and i don’t want to be remembered as the girl who messed up the cc34 historical masquerade. I know that if I shadow and ask for help where it is needed that is very unlikely to happen, but I wouldnt mind having a friendly face there with me to remind me of things a director needs to do.

Jamie Butler
President of Madison Area Costuming Society
Member of the Guilde of St George

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thank you, Byron and Nora, your answers were the most helpful of all.

As I thought, logistically it isn’t any different from anything I’ve experienced. I even had already assumed that the tech was con-wide and as long as the concomm picked someone qualified to run the green rooms (like Byron~), that would not be for me to worry about.

I’m sure Jamie will appreciate the advice to help with historical – I won’t speak for her, though.

Anyone who has seen me blather ad nauseum on forums like cosplay.com about masquerade standards knows I’m a proponent of the ICG guidelines and adhere to them pretty closely. I’ve always judged under that system and assisted in the green room at cons that use something pretty close as well. So, judging standards, awards, and the belief in “merit deserves reward” are things I had already planned to have in place.

When I’m less burned-out, I’m also planning to ask Sheila if I can shadow her at an upcoming Archon.

Keep the opinions coming if you have them!

Stace

— In runacc@yahoogroups.com, Byron Connell <byronpconnell@…> wrote:
>
> The historical masquerade, on the other hand, is rather different. I’ve run three of them and am running the next one. First, it’s the only one. Regional SF cons and worldcons may permit historical entries in their SF masquerades; however, those entries usually don’t really fit the masquerade’s theme or purpose. At CCs, the historical is the historical is the historical., It differs not only in topic but also in the approach the entrants take. While there are some who believe “historical” ought to be pronounced “hysterical” (I am one of them), humor is rare in historical entries (but see “The Battle of the Bulge” at CC 17: http://www.costume-con.org/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=3636&g2_page=2), group entries are less often seen, and the typical entry is one entrant presenting one recreation of a period garment.
>
> In addition, the historical requires the entrants to prepare documentation in support of their entries and requires the judges to review and judge the documentation. In addition, every entrant is required to meet with the judges to review his or her workmanship, for mandatory judging (unlike the voluntary workmanship judging in an SF masquerade. This takes a huge amount of time for the judges, who usually are unable to do anything else on Sunday — and maybe Saturday, depending on how large the show becomes. The MD needs to manage the schedule to some extent and check periodically that the judging is reasonably on schedule (it often is not). As a result, the judges normally make awards in three independent categories: documentation, workmanship, and presentation on stage and it’s not unknown for the total of awards across the three categories to exceed the total of entries (even though some entries receive no awards).
>
> Unlike for SF masquerades, the MD’s information and rules also must address the requirements for documentation as well as other aspects of the competition. See my info for the CC 32 historical as one example (http://costumecon32.com/programming-2014/competitions-events/historical-masquerade/). The Costume-Con web site (http://www.costume-con.org/gallery2/main.php) includes other sets of rules.

Oh I definitely appreciate the advice. The more I read the responses everyone had posted, the more I feel better about running my own. Fear for me comes from the unknown, I get freaked out when I think I need to do something without knowing what to do. As 31 was my first costume con ever (even though I tried to make previous ones but failed due to lack of money), I went, had a great but exhausting time, met costume con “celebritires”, people who’s names and costumes I’ve come across online but have never met in person, and then cane home and freaked out about impressing these people. I don’t know how many times I casually chatted with someone at cc31, then walked away back to my friends to have them say, “Jamie, do you realize who you were talking to..?”. Not to mention I fan-girled all over Margo Anderson. And geeked out after I met Phil.

So yes, please keep the suggestions coming. I won’t get offended if you tell me how you do it, because I just want to do it right.

Jamie Butler
President of Madison Area Costuming Society
Member of the Guilde of St George

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jamie —

I’m glad you’re feeling better about this. You definitely need an assistant director to spread the detail work. In Toronto, for example, Sylvain St.Pierre is my Assistant MD; that was the job he had at Anticipation, too. You may also want a personal assistant/gopher to help you stay sane.

Even if you can’t shadow me during tech rehearsal, visits to the judges, and the masquerade itself in Toronto, you certainly will be welcome at the Historical’s registration desk and to talk with me about what I may be doing and why. Pierre and Sandy Pettinger are running the CC 33 Historcal. I;m sure that they will be happy to have you shadow them.

Look at my contestant info on the CC 32 web site and at other historical masquerade rules at the Costume-Con web site: http://www.costume-con.org/gallery2/main.php. (Not every CC has the rules posted; you’ll have to browse through them.)

Don’t forget to ask us questions and raise ideas. We all love helping.

Byron

On Jun 6, 2013, at 11:12 AM, Jamie Butler <utopianqueen2000@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Okay, you’ve all convinced me. Thank you though. I didn’t get all the emails for some reason so ill have to read through the responses to staces questions, but you all have made me feel much more confident about this. I won’t be able to shadow the Toronto masquerades because I have 1/2 finished costumes for them I’ve been planning for awhile now, but I would like to shadow the Charleston one. I meant to ask you when I was at cc31, but then I started doubting my ability and held off. There are a few other icg run masquerades o can shadow inbetween now and cc34; but I was still wondering, if I still feel this way in a year or two, would anyone be willing to just be my background person, like an assistant while I’m freaking out about running my first masquerade?
>
> I just am a new face to many of you, and i don’t want to be remembered as the girl who messed up the cc34 historical masquerade. I know that if I shadow and ask for help where it is needed that is very unlikely to happen, but I wouldnt mind having a friendly face there with me to remind me of things a director needs to do.
>
> Jamie Butler
> President of Madison Area Costuming Society
> Member of the Guilde of St George
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

One of our traditions is that costumers who usually enter in the master division help run masquerades when they’re not entering. I’ve more than once heard someone ask a novice, “Do you know who your den mom is?!”

Byron

On Jun 6, 2013, at 1:42 PM, “staceylee25” <staceylee25@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Thank you, Byron and Nora, your answers were the most helpful of all.
>
> As I thought, logistically it isn’t any different from anything I’ve experienced. I even had already assumed that the tech was con-wide and as long as the concomm picked someone qualified to run the green rooms (like Byron~), that would not be for me to worry about.
>
> I’m sure Jamie will appreciate the advice to help with historical – I won’t speak for her, though.
>
> Anyone who has seen me blather ad nauseum on forums like cosplay.com about masquerade standards knows I’m a proponent of the ICG guidelines and adhere to them pretty closely. I’ve always judged under that system and assisted in the green room at cons that use something pretty close as well. So, judging standards, awards, and the belief in “merit deserves reward” are things I had already planned to have in place.
>
> When I’m less burned-out, I’m also planning to ask Sheila if I can shadow her at an upcoming Archon.
>
> Keep the opinions coming if you have them!
>
> Stace
>
> — In runacc@yahoogroups.com, Byron Connell <byronpconnell@…> wrote:
> >
> > The historical masquerade, on the other hand, is rather different. I’ve run three of them and am running the next one. First, it’s the only one. Regional SF cons and worldcons may permit historical entries in their SF masquerades; however, those entries usually don’t really fit the masquerade’s theme or purpose. At CCs, the historical is the historical is the historical., It differs not only in topic but also in the approach the entrants take. While there are some who believe “historical” ought to be pronounced “hysterical” (I am one of them), humor is rare in historical entries (but see “The Battle of the Bulge” at CC 17: http://www.costume-con.org/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=3636&g2_page=2), group entries are less often seen, and the typical entry is one entrant presenting one recreation of a period garment.
> >
> > In addition, the historical requires the entrants to prepare documentation in support of their entries and requires the judges to review and judge the documentation. In addition, every entrant is required to meet with the judges to review his or her workmanship, for mandatory judging (unlike the voluntary workmanship judging in an SF masquerade. This takes a huge amount of time for the judges, who usually are unable to do anything else on Sunday — and maybe Saturday, depending on how large the show becomes. The MD needs to manage the schedule to some extent and check periodically that the judging is reasonably on schedule (it often is not). As a result, the judges normally make awards in three independent categories: documentation, workmanship, and presentation on stage and it’s not unknown for the total of awards across the three categories to exceed the total of entries (even though some entries receive no awards).
> >
> > Unlike for SF masquerades, the MD’s information and rules also must address the requirements for documentation as well as other aspects of the competition. See my info for the CC 32 historical as one example (http://costumecon32.com/programming-2014/competitions-events/historical-masquerade/). The Costume-Con web site (http://www.costume-con.org/gallery2/main.php) includes other sets of rules.
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

If you do feel panicked in a year or two, remember 2 things:first – it happens to all of us!second – just ask, and I know you will have plenty of volunteersmaybe even me.
Elainewho has a bad case of helium hand

Okay, you’ve all convinced me. Thank you though. I didn’t get all the emails for some reason so ill have to read through the responses to staces questions, but you all have made me feel much more confident about this. I won’t be able to shadow the Toronto masquerades because I have 1/2 finished costumes for them I’ve been planning for awhile now, but I would like to shadow the Charleston one. I meant to ask you when I was at cc31, but then I started doubting my ability and held off. There are a few other icg run masquerades o can shadow inbetween now and cc34; but I was still wondering, if I still feel this way in a year or two, would anyone be willing to just be my background person, like an assistant while I’m freaking out about running my first masquerade?

I just am a new face to many of you, and i don’t want to be remembered as the girl who messed up the cc34 historical masquerade. I know that if I shadow and ask for help where it is needed that is very unlikely to happen, but I wouldnt mind having a friendly face there with me to remind me of things a director needs to do.

Jamie Butler

President of Madison Area Costuming Society

Member of the Guilde of St George

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

At 07:15 PM 6/6/2013, you wrote:

>Jamie —
>
>I’m glad you’re feeling better about this. You definitely need an
>assistant director to spread the detail work. In Toronto, for
>example, Sylvain St.Pierre is my Assistant MD; that was the job he
>had at Anticipation, too. You may also want a personal
>assistant/gopher to help you stay sane.
>
>Even if you can’t shadow me during tech rehearsal, visits to the
>judges, and the masquerade itself in Toronto, you certainly will be
>welcome at the Historical’s registration desk and to talk with me
>about what I may be doing and why. Pierre and Sandy Pettinger are
>running the CC 33 Historcal. I;m sure that they will be happy to
>have you shadow them.

You’d be very welcome.

Pierre and Sandy

>Look at my contestant info on the CC 32 web site and at other
>historical masquerade rules at the Costume-Con web site:
>http://www.costume-con.org/gallery2/main.php. (Not every CC has the
>rules posted; you’ll have to browse through them.)
>
>Don’t forget to ask us questions and raise ideas. We all love helping.
>
>Byron
>
>On Jun 6, 2013, at 11:12 AM, Jamie Butler <utopianqueen2000@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Okay, you’ve all convinced me. Thank you though. I didn’t get all
> the emails for some reason so ill have to read through the
> responses to staces questions, but you all have made me feel much
> more confident about this. I won’t be able to shadow the Toronto
> masquerades because I have 1/2 finished costumes for them I’ve been
> planning for awhile now, but I would like to shadow the Charleston
> one. I meant to ask you when I was at cc31, but then I started
> doubting my ability and held off. There are a few other icg run
> masquerades o can shadow inbetween now and cc34; but I was still
> wondering, if I still feel this way in a year or two, would anyone
> be willing to just be my background person, like an assistant while
> I’m freaking out about running my first masquerade?
> >
> > I just am a new face to many of you, and i don’t want to be
> remembered as the girl who messed up the cc34 historical
> masquerade. I know that if I shadow and ask for help where it is
> needed that is very unlikely to happen, but I wouldnt mind having a
> friendly face there with me to remind me of things a director needs to do.
> >
> > Jamie Butler
> > President of Madison Area Costuming Society
> > Member of the Guilde of St George

International Costumers’ Guild Archivist

http://www.costume.org/gallery2/main.php

“Those Who Fail to Learn History
Are Doomed to Repeat It;
Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly –
Why They Are Simply Doomed.”

Achemdro’hm
“The Illusion of Historical Fact”
— C. Y. 4971

Andromeda

On Wed, Jun 5, 2013 at 12:36 PM, staceylee25 <staceylee25@yahoo.com> wrote:

> But given the foibles seen at CC31, which I’m also not going to review
> just now, there has been a lot of talk of “but CC is different!”

Well… (late to the party)

Costume-Con is different, because the masquerades are the focus of the
convention, not just something that happens at them.

As MD at a Costume-Con, you should get the better support from the con
chair and committee than any other convention could be bothered to give
you. You should have Program (or scheduling) giving you priority for
competition-related space and time slots. You should get better volunteers
helping you run your masquerade, because that’s what the people who aren’t
there to enter are likely there for. You should have a great pool of people
to choose great judges from. You should have amazingly prepared entrants
ready to wow the audience.

They’re all “shoulds” but they’re usually true. I ran a great F&SF at CC21,
but that’s only because I had a great crew, wonderful judges, an amazing
slate of entrants, a killer hotel negotiator fixing problems at the last
minute and an assistant director who made me look very good.

I’m not saying that there aren’t other great conventions with traditions of
supporting costuming and costume competition, because there are. But at no
other convention will you find a membership with the depth and breadth of
experience in supporting and running good shows.

andy

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi everyone,

I would like some information. I’ve got Marg from CC30 and Henry from CC29 and Dawn from CC32 sending me info that they have but I would appreciate a little more help with numbers. My financial support group needs me to prepare a “business proposal” that contains a budget, income/outcome expectations and hotel room night pickup figures. I’ve got an example from the local con on their budget but I would like to hear from CC31 what their room pickups were and CC28 so I can have 5 years of figures to pull from. Thank you for your help.

Also, there was someone who had a base contract for hotels. Would they mind forwarding it to me at Rebecca8175atgmaildotcom?

I was going to just come in and say something about coming late to the
discussion in answer to Stace’s question, but the more I read, the more
I figured that what I’m going to say here is not actually quite the same
thing. So this is more an adjunct topic to answer something that
hasn’t quite been asked yet.

Some of us (in the SLCG and others) have, on a number of occasions,
harped about some concoms having staffers who utter the infamous “At X
Con we…..”, and which often (not always) leads to repetitions of
mistakes that could have been avoid had some people had a better
understanding of the CC community So, I got to thinking about how CC
is different from a generral SF con, and so far, I came up with three
thoughts.

Costume-Con is a small con with a big-con feel. Part of that is due to
the fact that it’s a single interest conference – there’s
not a gaming sub-group, a video room, no anime sub-group, etc. It
draws people who are focused on learning their craft and exchanging
ideas with their peers. There’s a high amount of dedication
involved with having to travel to a different city for a CC. And
since CC has the cache of “International venue” status, it
tends to (for better or worse) filter out the people who aren’t
serious about their craft. If you think about it, there really
aren’t a lot of “casual” attendees.

Costume-Con’s community is sort of like a medium-sized town.
It’s small enough that everyone sort of recognizes each other, and
Nora sez there’s a diner (or bar like Cheers) where all the regulars
congregate. The town has an active tourist bureau, and some people
come to like it so much that they decide to stay.

Possibly the single biggest difference between CC and a general SF con
is there is an expectation of competency in the staff. As someone
mentioned earlier in the discussion, the depth of experience at this con
is like nowhere else. A lot of the attendees work or run their own
conventions and/or masquerades in some capacity. Not to mention, these
people have been coming to CC for years – so they’re more aware than
others about which CCs were good and which could have been better. The
same applies to programming.

So, not surprisingly, if there are organizational problems that could
have been avoided, people are going to notice. And talk about it.
That doesn’t mean that mistakes shouldn’t and won’t happen –
but it seems like some mistakes are unnecessarily repeated, despite the
availability of resources like the Runacc list.

I would urge future CC committees to discuss the above with the folks
they bring in who have never been to a CC.

Bruce

P.S. The SCCG review just wrapped up. I’ll have it out on this list
in the next few days, hopefully.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

A tiny note to add to this: the Yahoo Group archive will let newer
subscribers go back and look at comments from several previous CCs, as to
what was felt about both mistakes and things that went right. It may take a
bit of digging, but even if committees just make up a checklist of “this
worked and that didn’t” it could put them ahead of the game.

For that matter, at some point it could be useful to compile something
like that and publish it, not in the snotty sense of “this is what we say
you should be doing” but rather “this has worked well in the past, that
didn’t, and we’re trying to help you avoid some of the pitfalls.” It would
take some digging, but would be a worthwhile project. It could even
become a tool for those who are considering making a CC bid, so they’d know
what they’re getting into.

Tina

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

What Bruce says is generally true. I would add that there is a reason why
the “Con” in Costume-Con stands for Conference, not Convention. If you read
the ConStitution (and I encourage EVERYONE on this list to do so), you’ll
see that distinction right there.

While the city might change from year to year, the ConStitution was
designed to provide a basic structure under which each CC operates.

A very VERY long time ago, there was a point where I was working on a How
To document that outlined all the steps which went into creating CC16, but
I can’t find the files now – odds are excellent that I archived them when I
archived the rest of my CC.org files, so they’re on a CD somewhere in the
house and not on my hard disk anymore. I think my logic dictated that with
changes in costs over time, detailing the specifics like budget numbers
would require more maintenance than I could provide.

For whatever reason, the files are not in this group and I think they
should be. I will make an effort to figure out what I did with them and
will upload them to the group area.

I’m preparing for a house move (sigh, yes, again) and in the midst of a
fairly ugly work-related policy discussion, so don’t have enough spoons to
devote right now to this conversation, but I encourage everyone on this
list to take full advantage of its existence and hash this out.

The very good thing about Yahoo Groups, for as long as it lasts, is that it
provides an archive of discussion items. I could suggest using the CCXV
budget as a starting point for all the various aspects of running a CC, as
its layout includes not just the numbers but what we spent our money on. It
isn’t exhaustive, but its pretty close to.

More when I have a chance…

Betsy

On Sun, Jun 23, 2013 at 12:57 PM, Bruce <casamai@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>
> I was going to just come in and say something about coming late to the
> discussion in answer to Stace’s question, but the more I read, the more
> I figured that what I’m going to say here is not actually quite the same
> thing. So this is more an adjunct topic to answer something that
> hasn’t quite been asked yet.
>
> Some of us (in the SLCG and others) have, on a number of occasions,
> harped about some concoms having staffers who utter the infamous “At X
> Con we…..”, and which often (not always) leads to repetitions of
> mistakes that could have been avoid had some people had a better
> understanding of the CC community So, I got to thinking about how CC
> is different from a generral SF con, and so far, I came up with three
> thoughts.
>
> Costume-Con is a small con with a big-con feel. Part of that is due to
> the fact that it’s a single interest conference � there’s
> not a gaming sub-group, a video room, no anime sub-group, etc. It
> draws people who are focused on learning their craft and exchanging
> ideas with their peers. There’s a high amount of dedication
> involved with having to travel to a different city for a CC. And
> since CC has the cache of “International venue” status, it
> tends to (for better or worse) filter out the people who aren’t
> serious about their craft. If you think about it, there really
> aren’t a lot of “casual” attendees.
>
> Costume-Con’s community is sort of like a medium-sized town.
> It’s small enough that everyone sort of recognizes each other, and
> Nora sez there’s a diner (or bar like Cheers) where all the regulars
> congregate. The town has an active tourist bureau, and some people
> come to like it so much that they decide to stay.
>
> Possibly the single biggest difference between CC and a general SF con
> is there is an expectation of competency in the staff. As someone
> mentioned earlier in the discussion, the depth of experience at this con
> is like nowhere else. A lot of the attendees work or run their own
> conventions and/or masquerades in some capacity. Not to mention, these
> people have been coming to CC for years – so they’re more aware than
> others about which CCs were good and which could have been better. The
> same applies to programming.
>
> So, not surprisingly, if there are organizational problems that could
> have been avoided, people are going to notice. And talk about it.
> That doesn’t mean that mistakes shouldn’t and won’t happen �
> but it seems like some mistakes are unnecessarily repeated, despite the
> availability of resources like the Runacc list.
>
> I would urge future CC committees to discuss the above with the folks
> they bring in who have never been to a CC.
>
> Bruce
>
> P.S. The SCCG review just wrapped up. I’ll have it out on this list
> in the next few days, hopefully.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ————————————
>
> View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/Yahoo!
> Groups Links
>
>
>
>

—
—
—
Betsy Marks Delaney

http://www.hawkeswood.com/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I know you include a number of sample files on the Constitution page
http://costume-con.org/constitution.shtml

On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 5:38 AM, Betsy Marks Delaney
<aramintamd@gmail.com>wrote:

> What Bruce says is generally true. I would add that there is a reason why
> the “Con” in Costume-Con stands for Conference, not Convention. If you read
> the ConStitution (and I encourage EVERYONE on this list to do so), you’ll
> see that distinction right there.
>
> While the city might change from year to year, the ConStitution was
> designed to provide a basic structure under which each CC operates.
>
> A very VERY long time ago, there was a point where I was working on a How
> To document that outlined all the steps which went into creating CC16, but
> I can’t find the files now – odds are excellent that I archived them when I
> archived the rest of my CC.org files, so they’re on a CD somewhere in the
> house and not on my hard disk anymore. I think my logic dictated that with
> changes in costs over time, detailing the specifics like budget numbers
> would require more maintenance than I could provide.
>
> For whatever reason, the files are not in this group and I think they
> should be. I will make an effort to figure out what I did with them and
> will upload them to the group area.
>
> I’m preparing for a house move (sigh, yes, again) and in the midst of a
> fairly ugly work-related policy discussion, so don’t have enough spoons to
> devote right now to this conversation, but I encourage everyone on this
> list to take full advantage of its existence and hash this out.
>
> The very good thing about Yahoo Groups, for as long as it lasts, is that it
> provides an archive of discussion items. I could suggest using the CCXV
> budget as a starting point for all the various aspects of running a CC, as
> its layout includes not just the numbers but what we spent our money on. It
> isn’t exhaustive, but its pretty close to.
>
> More when I have a chance…
>
> Betsy
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 23, 2013 at 12:57 PM, Bruce <casamai@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> >
> > I was going to just come in and say something about coming late to the
> > discussion in answer to Stace’s question, but the more I read, the more
> > I figured that what I’m going to say here is not actually quite the same
> > thing. So this is more an adjunct topic to answer something that
> > hasn’t quite been asked yet.
> >
> > Some of us (in the SLCG and others) have, on a number of occasions,
> > harped about some concoms having staffers who utter the infamous “At X
> > Con we…..”, and which often (not always) leads to repetitions of
> > mistakes that could have been avoid had some people had a better
> > understanding of the CC community So, I got to thinking about how CC
> > is different from a generral SF con, and so far, I came up with three
> > thoughts.
> >
> > Costume-Con is a small con with a big-con feel. Part of that is due to
> > the fact that it’s a single interest conference � there’s
> > not a gaming sub-group, a video room, no anime sub-group, etc. It
> > draws people who are focused on learning their craft and exchanging
> > ideas with their peers. There’s a high amount of dedication
> > involved with having to travel to a different city for a CC. And
> > since CC has the cache of “International venue” status, it
> > tends to (for better or worse) filter out the people who aren’t
> > serious about their craft. If you think about it, there really
> > aren’t a lot of “casual” attendees.
> >
> > Costume-Con’s community is sort of like a medium-sized town.
> > It’s small enough that everyone sort of recognizes each other, and
> > Nora sez there’s a diner (or bar like Cheers) where all the regulars
> > congregate. The town has an active tourist bureau, and some people
> > come to like it so much that they decide to stay.
> >
> > Possibly the single biggest difference between CC and a general SF con
> > is there is an expectation of competency in the staff. As someone
> > mentioned earlier in the discussion, the depth of experience at this con
> > is like nowhere else. A lot of the attendees work or run their own
> > conventions and/or masquerades in some capacity. Not to mention, these
> > people have been coming to CC for years – so they’re more aware than
> > others about which CCs were good and which could have been better. The
> > same applies to programming.
> >
> > So, not surprisingly, if there are organizational problems that could
> > have been avoided, people are going to notice. And talk about it.
> > That doesn’t mean that mistakes shouldn’t and won’t happen �
> > but it seems like some mistakes are unnecessarily repeated, despite the
> > availability of resources like the Runacc list.
> >
> > I would urge future CC committees to discuss the above with the folks
> > they bring in who have never been to a CC.
> >
> > Bruce
> >
> > P.S. The SCCG review just wrapped up. I’ll have it out on this list
> > in the next few days, hopefully.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > ————————————
> >
> > View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/Yahoo!
> > Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> —
> —
> —
> Betsy Marks Delaney
>
> http://www.hawkeswood.com/
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ————————————
>
> View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/Yahoo!
> Groups Links
>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Actually, Tina, NOTHING really prepares you!

Elaine

CC 30’s Recliner

A tiny note to add to this: the Yahoo Group archive will let newer
subscribers go back and look at comments from several previous CCs, as to
what was felt about both mistakes and things that went right. It may take a
bit of digging, but even if committees just make up a checklist of “this
worked and that didn’t” it could put them ahead of the game.

For that matter, at some point it could be useful to compile something
like that and publish it, not in the snotty sense of “this is what we say
you should be doing” but rather “this has worked well in the past, that
didn’t, and we’re trying to help you avoid some of the pitfalls.” It would
take some digging, but would be a worthwhile project. It could even
become a tool for those who are considering making a CC bid, so they’d know
what they’re getting into.

Tina

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ah. Well, that answers that question. I’d wondered what happened to
those notes. Hopefully, you’ll find them. We probably still have them,
too, but Lord knows where. A lot of the notes are still relevant, even 15
years later.

Bruce

—–Original Message—–
From: runacc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:runacc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Betsy Marks Delaney
Sent: Monday, June 24, 2013 7:39 AM
To: List, Run a CC
Subject: Re: [runacc] “Costume-Con is different”

What Bruce says is generally true. I would add that there is a reason why
the “Con” in Costume-Con stands for Conference, not Convention. If you read
the ConStitution (and I encourage EVERYONE on this list to do so), you’ll
see that distinction right there.

While the city might change from year to year, the ConStitution was
designed to provide a basic structure under which each CC operates.

A very VERY long time ago, there was a point where I was working on a How
To document that outlined all the steps which went into creating CC16, but
I can’t find the files now – odds are excellent that I archived them when I
archived the rest of my CC.org files, so they’re on a CD somewhere in the
house and not on my hard disk anymore. I think my logic dictated that with
changes in costs over time, detailing the specifics like budget numbers
would require more maintenance than I could provide.

For whatever reason, the files are not in this group and I think they
should be. I will make an effort to figure out what I did with them and
will upload them to the group area.

I’m preparing for a house move (sigh, yes, again) and in the midst of a
fairly ugly work-related policy discussion, so don’t have enough spoons to
devote right now to this conversation, but I encourage everyone on this
list to take full advantage of its existence and hash this out.

The very good thing about Yahoo Groups, for as long as it lasts, is that it
provides an archive of discussion items. I could suggest using the CCXV
budget as a starting point for all the various aspects of running a CC, as
its layout includes not just the numbers but what we spent our money on. It
isn’t exhaustive, but its pretty close to.

More when I have a chance…

Betsy

On Sun, Jun 23, 2013 at 12:57 PM, Bruce <casamai@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>
> I was going to just come in and say something about coming late to the
> discussion in answer to Stace’s question, but the more I read, the more
> I figured that what I’m going to say here is not actually quite the same
> thing. So this is more an adjunct topic to answer something that
> hasn’t quite been asked yet.
>
> Some of us (in the SLCG and others) have, on a number of occasions,
> harped about some concoms having staffers who utter the infamous “At X
> Con we…..”, and which often (not always) leads to repetitions of
> mistakes that could have been avoid had some people had a better
> understanding of the CC community So, I got to thinking about how CC
> is different from a generral SF con, and so far, I came up with three
> thoughts.
>
> Costume-Con is a small con with a big-con feel. Part of that is due to
> the fact that it’s a single interest conference – there’s
> not a gaming sub-group, a video room, no anime sub-group, etc. It
> draws people who are focused on learning their craft and exchanging
> ideas with their peers. There’s a high amount of dedication
> involved with having to travel to a different city for a CC. And
> since CC has the cache of “International venue” status, it
> tends to (for better or worse) filter out the people who aren’t
> serious about their craft. If you think about it, there really
> aren’t a lot of “casual” attendees.
>
> Costume-Con’s community is sort of like a medium-sized town.
> It’s small enough that everyone sort of recognizes each other, and
> Nora sez there’s a diner (or bar like Cheers) where all the regulars
> congregate. The town has an active tourist bureau, and some people
> come to like it so much that they decide to stay.
>
> Possibly the single biggest difference between CC and a general SF con
> is there is an expectation of competency in the staff. As someone
> mentioned earlier in the discussion, the depth of experience at this con
> is like nowhere else. A lot of the attendees work or run their own
> conventions and/or masquerades in some capacity. Not to mention, these
> people have been coming to CC for years – so they’re more aware than
> others about which CCs were good and which could have been better. The
> same applies to programming.
>
> So, not surprisingly, if there are organizational problems that could
> have been avoided, people are going to notice. And talk about it.
> That doesn’t mean that mistakes shouldn’t and won’t happen –
> but it seems like some mistakes are unnecessarily repeated, despite the
> availability of resources like the Runacc list.
>
> I would urge future CC committees to discuss the above with the folks
> they bring in who have never been to a CC.
>
> Bruce
>
> P.S. The SCCG review just wrapped up. I’ll have it out on this list
> in the next few days, hopefully.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ————————————
>
> View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/Yahoo!
> Groups Links
>
>
>
>

—
—
—
Betsy Marks Delaney

http://www.hawkeswood.com/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

————————————

View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/Yahoo! Groups
Links

—–
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG – www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.3345 / Virus Database: 3199/6435 – Release Date: 06/23/13

—–
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG – www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.3345 / Virus Database: 3199/6435 – Release Date: 06/23/13

I agree, based on the questions (and answers). I will give it a shot to
find them before I leave for Pennsic, but it may take some doing. OTOH, if
it waits till after I move…

Betsy

On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 9:16 PM, Nora & Bruce Mai <casamai@sbcglobal.net>wrote:

> Ah. Well, that answers that question. I’d wondered what happened to
> those notes. Hopefully, you’ll find them. We probably still have them,
> too, but Lord knows where. A lot of the notes are still relevant, even 15
> years later.
>
> Bruce
>
> —–Original Message—–
> From: runacc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:runacc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> Betsy Marks Delaney
> Sent: Monday, June 24, 2013 7:39 AM
> To: List, Run a CC
> Subject: Re: [runacc] “Costume-Con is different”
>
> What Bruce says is generally true. I would add that there is a reason why
> the “Con” in Costume-Con stands for Conference, not Convention. If you read
> the ConStitution (and I encourage EVERYONE on this list to do so), you’ll
> see that distinction right there.
>
> While the city might change from year to year, the ConStitution was
> designed to provide a basic structure under which each CC operates.
>
> A very VERY long time ago, there was a point where I was working on a How
> To document that outlined all the steps which went into creating CC16, but
> I can’t find the files now – odds are excellent that I archived them when I
> archived the rest of my CC.org files, so they’re on a CD somewhere in the
> house and not on my hard disk anymore. I think my logic dictated that with
> changes in costs over time, detailing the specifics like budget numbers
> would require more maintenance than I could provide.
>
> For whatever reason, the files are not in this group and I think they
> should be. I will make an effort to figure out what I did with them and
> will upload them to the group area.
>
> I’m preparing for a house move (sigh, yes, again) and in the midst of a
> fairly ugly work-related policy discussion, so don’t have enough spoons to
> devote right now to this conversation, but I encourage everyone on this
> list to take full advantage of its existence and hash this out.
>
> The very good thing about Yahoo Groups, for as long as it lasts, is that it
> provides an archive of discussion items. I could suggest using the CCXV
> budget as a starting point for all the various aspects of running a CC, as
> its layout includes not just the numbers but what we spent our money on. It
> isn’t exhaustive, but its pretty close to.
>
> More when I have a chance…
>
> Betsy
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 23, 2013 at 12:57 PM, Bruce <casamai@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> >
> > I was going to just come in and say something about coming late to the
> > discussion in answer to Stace’s question, but the more I read, the more
> > I figured that what I’m going to say here is not actually quite the same
> > thing. So this is more an adjunct topic to answer something that
> > hasn’t quite been asked yet.
> >
> > Some of us (in the SLCG and others) have, on a number of occasions,
> > harped about some concoms having staffers who utter the infamous “At X
> > Con we…..”, and which often (not always) leads to repetitions of
> > mistakes that could have been avoid had some people had a better
> > understanding of the CC community So, I got to thinking about how CC
> > is different from a generral SF con, and so far, I came up with three
> > thoughts.
> >
> > Costume-Con is a small con with a big-con feel. Part of that is due to
> > the fact that it’s a single interest conference – there’s
> > not a gaming sub-group, a video room, no anime sub-group, etc. It
> > draws people who are focused on learning their craft and exchanging
> > ideas with their peers. There’s a high amount of dedication
> > involved with having to travel to a different city for a CC. And
> > since CC has the cache of “International venue” status, it
> > tends to (for better or worse) filter out the people who aren’t
> > serious about their craft. If you think about it, there really
> > aren’t a lot of “casual” attendees.
> >
> > Costume-Con’s community is sort of like a medium-sized town.
> > It’s small enough that everyone sort of recognizes each other, and
> > Nora sez there’s a diner (or bar like Cheers) where all the regulars
> > congregate. The town has an active tourist bureau, and some people
> > come to like it so much that they decide to stay.
> >
> > Possibly the single biggest difference between CC and a general SF con
> > is there is an expectation of competency in the staff. As someone
> > mentioned earlier in the discussion, the depth of experience at this con
> > is like nowhere else. A lot of the attendees work or run their own
> > conventions and/or masquerades in some capacity. Not to mention, these
> > people have been coming to CC for years – so they’re more aware than
> > others about which CCs were good and which could have been better. The
> > same applies to programming.
> >
> > So, not surprisingly, if there are organizational problems that could
> > have been avoided, people are going to notice. And talk about it.
> > That doesn’t mean that mistakes shouldn’t and won’t happen –
> > but it seems like some mistakes are unnecessarily repeated, despite the
> > availability of resources like the Runacc list.
> >
> > I would urge future CC committees to discuss the above with the folks
> > they bring in who have never been to a CC.
> >
> > Bruce
> >
> > P.S. The SCCG review just wrapped up. I’ll have it out on this list
> > in the next few days, hopefully.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > ————————————
> >
> > View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/Yahoo!
> > Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> —
> —
> —
> Betsy Marks Delaney
>
> http://www.hawkeswood.com/
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ————————————
>
> View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/Yahoo!
> Groups
> Links
>
>
>
>
>
> —–
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG – www.avg.com
> Version: 2013.0.3345 / Virus Database: 3199/6435 – Release Date: 06/23/13
>
>
> —–
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG – www.avg.com
> Version: 2013.0.3345 / Virus Database: 3199/6435 – Release Date: 06/23/13
>
>
>
> ————————————
>
> View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/Yahoo!
> Groups Links
>
>
>
>

—
—
—
Betsy Marks Delaney

http://www.hawkeswood.com/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Okay, as promised, here’s the SLCG review of CC31.

I’m handling this one a little differently this time, for 2 reasons.
First, 2 of the 3 standing CC committee heads are members of the SLCG
and already have seen the full-length version with everyone’s
comments back and forth. Second, this review is somewhat edited for
content about what future committees can have control over, and not what
they won’t. That means there won’t, for the most part, be any
airing of individual complaints unless there was a trend noticed by
everyone who attended. (By the way, this year’s review was compiled
from comments by at least 8 members)

Before the con

The Folio:

While the Folio came out in a reasonable amount of time before the
convention, there appeared to be an unnecessarily long gap between the
submission deadline and when they were mailed out. Word is this had
something to do with the Folio Director trying to corral the judges into
one place to get the work done. And then, there was a problem with
production, where the Con Chair wound up doing the layout.

Recommendation: The Folio Director needs to be reliable – so do the
judges, so get assurances of availability from them. It might be
better if they’re all local – having them spread out may become
a problem.

Regular participants in the Folio said the Folio was….uninspiring.
The designs were very wearable – not so much “costumey”.
Unfortunately, that also meant they weren’t very interesting to look
at. The fact that the designs were organized by creator’s names
also made the Folio less interesting to browse (although, it certainly
made it easier to find someone). At least there were a lot of new
designers this year, rather than just the same people.

Recommendation: Come up with more categories that inspire people.
Sometimes a theme in a Folio can be a good thing, but it can also
backfire, because then designers feel restricted. Maybe promote the
idea of sponsored categories (although this can get out of hand, so you
have to watch it)

Communication: We were a bit put off by some staffers using secure
email accounts associated with the addresses off the convention website.
This meant that when you sent them a message, you got a
“CAPTCHA” response where you had to type a code in to permit
your email to reach them. If these staffers were concerned about
their private email, they should have set up another account just for CC
matters. There were one or two people on staff who were not very
prompt in answering their emails, but otherwise, the convention gets
points for communication regarding the Progress Reports. We liked that
there were were 4 PRs, but the last one that came out the week of the
convention, when some people were already en route.

Recommendation: Make sure that major staff positions have email
addresses where they can easily be reached.

Some information channels were neglected – there was barely any
activity on the CC Yahoo list, nor was there much in the way of
participation on the Cosplay.com forum. These were missed opportunities
for promotion and information dissemination.

Recommendation: If you want to have maximum exposure, you should have
someone whose major responsibility is Communications. DO NOT make it
an additional duty for someone who already has an important job, because
communications will not be given as much priority – it’s just
human nature. Make sure all the info put out gets to all the various
forums (CC, ICG-D, Cosplay.com, F-Costume, etc.) – not just Facebook.
Maybe even change the content from one forum to another – swap stuff
around – make it more interesting to people who read more than one
of the above.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The Hotel:

First things first – free parking. Thank you.

Opinions about the hotel were all over the map, including some rooms
having problems, location to food, etc. The main complaint was about
the hotel staff, described as “bi-polar” – some were fine,
but some were just ridiculous. The bar/restaurant in the lobby was
incredibly slow. But we appreciated the relatively reasonably priced
breakfast buffet each day.

Recommendation: Knowing you have to pay more money beyond the hotel
room (and hotel food, possibly) can really stick in one’s craw. So
if there’s going to be a cost each day for parking, make sure people
know about it way ahead of time so they can budget for it. When we
wrote up our experiences from CC16, one thing we recommendeded was
choosing a hotel in a business district – we think it’s still
good advice. People are less likely to appreciate “atmosphere”
when it drags on their pocketbook. And we’ve never been fans of
hotels in a downtown district for that reason. Having a hotel with
nearby restaurants is an important consideration. People shouldn’t
have to travel too far afield to find a meal beyond fast food.

And can we please have a hotel that has a pool and hot tub that works
and is open?

Registration:

Good marks for being able to at least hand out some membership stuff on
Thursday, and having a goodie bag with useful stuff was a welcome change
from past years. The registration people, which was at least mostly
staff by locals, were efficient and friendly. The only major complaints
we had was about the printing of the membership badges – they were
not legible. The print was too small and the background was too dark.

We liked the “Pocket Program”, which consisted of three stapled
sheets. Someone gave this some thought – it had the dealers room
hours, the Con Suite Hours and a map of the hotel. The only thing we
would have liked to have seen added was the sponsorships for the Con
Suite.

Recommendations: Make sure your membership badges are readable, with
large print and a light background. Having a membership packet with
free stuff gives the con-goer a feeling of value. Work with local
businesses to include coupons, etc.

There was a suggestion that maybe there should be an CC information
table next to Registration, manned by a CC Veteran.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Programming

The 9:30 start for programming each day was a little later than
we’re used to, but honestly, that did give us a little more time to
eat, get in costume & prepare for panels. The 90 minute time slots
worked and gave people more time to do a panel and discuss stuff. Not
everyone used all of that time, which was good.

Six tracks (4 plus the Green Room & Main Ballroom) appeared to be
sufficient for all the panels. Our perception was there was a better
selection of subjects that were actually worth trying to see – stuff
that you don’t see often (moulage & lattice smocking for instance).
Almost all of them were well attended, including the GOH. Byron
expressed that there was not enough for non-costumers like him to do,
which brings up a valid point that not everyone in our community makes
costumes, so program directors should keep this in mind. There were
the usual complaints that people were forced to decide between panels
that were scheduled opposite each other.

Recommendation: Consider using the 90 minute panel slot format.
We’ve heard complaints in the past that there not enough “hands
on” classes at previous CCs, but there should be a balance of
workshops, panels and lectures so that CC is enjoyable for everyone.
The panels that do appeal to non-costumers should include handouts and
other visual aids so that it’s not just a “talking head” lecture.
Younger people have less tolerance for that.

It’s been suggested before that maybe there should be some repeated
panels for those who missed a program earlier in the weekend.
Something to consider.

There needs to be one – possibly two – “My First
Costume-Con” panels – on Friday and Saturday, at every CC for all
the newbies who arrive each day. Nora and I would be willing to run
these.

Exhibits/Dolls

A good display of local costumes, plenty of room and plenty of room to
look at them. Having the dolls in the exhibits room was a good idea,
because it drove traffic to the display and security could keep an eye
on both.

Dealers Room

It had some interesting stuff, but there were also disappointments. No
book dealer? Word is Janet was supposed to be there. The Patterns
of Time table was not nearly as well stocked as would have been thought,
since Denver is their home base. There should have been many, many
more patterns for sale. The one trim dealer was reasonably priced.
From what we can tell, the dealers all seemed to be doing well.

Con Suite
The Con Suite got pretty good marks for keeping things stocked with the
basics like sodas, a few chips. We were spoiled by CC30’s Con
Suite where we just paid money and they took care of it. It was nice
to see several groups sponsoring food events. We were a little put off
by some of the restrictions by the Con Suite person – 2 hour slots,
you have to do all the work, no cooking in the room, no refrigerator,
etc.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

It went relatively well and, generally, everyone liked the more informal
format. That’s about all we can say about it. We did wonder
about why the Green Room was used as the venue for the FNS, and the
ballroom for the masquerades was used as the “Green Room”.
Byron’s comments regarding particulars of the room pretty much
covered everything else.. The food for the event was pretty good,
however, there was a potential for disaster with the spicy glazed
chicken wings. Having the food on the opposite end of the room from
the entry point was a good idea, so that there was no choke point.
This was probably just a practical matter, since the kitchen was located
on that side of the room.

The MC for all the shows got good marks for being respectful, being easy
to work with and he tried to learn about our community so he could make
remarks and jokes later.

Recommendation: Having the food on the opposite end of the room from
the entry point was a good idea, so that there was no choke point at the
entrance. Think carefully about any foods served where stuff could
easily drip on a costume.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

As you are aware, this came in for the most criticism. Much discussion
has occurred elsewhere, so we’re not going to dwell on certain
aspects regarding the awards. Suffice to say, you knew there was a
problem when you had people you barely knew come up and ask your opinion
about whether there were enough awards given out.

The Green Room had a number of problems. Much of it had to do with
organization. There were issues with check in, not having den tables
set up in time, the Green Room Manager’s demeanor, the lack of
clearly identifying who the GRM & Den Moms were, and not ushering
entrants to Official Photography and Workmanship Judging.

The LED stage lights were very harsh, judging by the masquerade videos.
They were either too close or not diffuse enough.

Recommendations: The MD should tell people when to arrive in the Green
Room when they register, not just rely on them to read their paperwork.
If you’re making use of a local person for Green Room, make sure
your GRM has good people skills. Make sure the den moms know they need
to stay near their assigned table. Even if there is only going to be
water backstage, make sure there are straws for people with masks.

Even if the Green Room is just a ways down the hall, have seating
available for people waiting in awkward costumes is a good idea.
Backstage crews should have flashlights to help light people’s way
as they come off stage.

There should be separate panels of judges for Presentation and
Workmanship. You know the reasons why.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Future Fashion Show

We were glad to see the Director allowed for more than one person to
make up a design, which was good – you’re more likely to get
people to participate that way. The one drawback to the show observed
was not having those same designs come out at the same time – that
way, the audience can compare how the same design was interpreted. The
judges seemed competent, and they were different than the usual people
who might get tapped to judge, so that was good – we can use new
blood.

Recommendation: Keep allowing more than one person to make up designs.

Historical Masquerade:

Generally, it was well run, with a few annoying slips. The MD
didn’t have enough entry forms available for sign up at the con.
Like the SF masq director, entrants weren’t verbally told what time
to show up for the Green Room. Also, the MD allowed a few last-minute
walk in registrations after the supposed “deadline time”, much
to the frustration of the judges who had already begun deliberations.
Finally, the MD held up the awards being handed out because they wanted
to print the certificates with the names of the winners, rather than
just having them written by hand. (At least, there was no shortage of
awards for this show) Other than that, the MD was pleasant to work
with and attentive.

The same Green Room problems occurred for this masquerade, although not
quite as pronounced.

Recommendation: Don’t allow people to sign up after your
registration deadline – it sets a bad precedent. If someone can’t
get themselves organized to get registered on time, they should suffer
the consequences.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The Official Photographer:

We liked him. He was creative, making suggestions for poses, and had
fun doing his job. His quality of work was good and prices were
reasonable. He also made an effort to take some photos of other
activities during the con. Not all official photographers get around to
this.

Recommendation: We need to find more people like this guy. There’s a
possibility he might be interested in coming to more CCs (depending on
location – Madison?)

There was very little “At MileHighCon, we….”, which was
refreshing to NOT hear from the con staff)

Guests of Honor:

There was some concern expressed about the trend of having a Guest of
Honor. Some of our people askied about how much compensation there
was/has been. They wondered about how things might appear if peers are
getting some of their expenses paid when everyone else is paying their
memberships. That doesn’t mean there shouldn’t be programming
featuring someone in our community – the service mark holder (Karen)
expressed disappointment that there were no retrospectives. Given the
number of talented people in our community, we could, theoretically,
have at least one every year. (And while I hesitate to mention this,
there could come a time when the Archives could aid in providing
material when necessary.

Speaking of the Archives, it was nice to hear people applauding for
those in this year’s video memoriam (even when they clearly
didn’t know who the featured costumers were). The audience also
enjoyed the video recognizing CC veterans (and the veterans got a kick
out of being recognized). With more material being brought to CCs (and
online), people are starting to become more aware of each other in our
community, and that’s a good thing.

Overall, Mike gets a thumbs up for running a pretty good non-coastal CC.
We gave CC31 a B to B+.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Looks like Joni Dashoff’s email’s been hacked.

Bruce

 

 

Sorry very old desktop running Windows Xp which they stopped supporting
this month. I have a new laptop on order (so I can  take those pesky CC33
memberships) and I’m switching to my gmail account as soon as I find my info.
Joni

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

——– Original message ——–
From: “‘Nora & Bruce Mai’ casamai@sbcglobal.net [runacc]”
Date:05/26/2014 3:00 PM (GMT-06:00)
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [runacc] Invites

 

Reply via web post

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•

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Messages in this topic (3)

 

Yes, please.  San Diego is Rebecca Rowan & me.

Thanks,

Elaine

rebecca8175@gmail.com

I’ve been on the list for several years.  I’ve also asked for info for various things while lurking too.

 

 

 

 

 

And the head of the bid, and now con treasurer for CC35 is Mark
Tjan:

office@markptjan.com

Pierre

At 08:03 PM 5/26/2014, you wrote:

 

Natalie Wallce is the newest
elected con chair

easiest to reach her at:
n.wallace@conbravo.com

and I will tell her the invite is coming
Gravely MacCabre

http://www.castleblood.com

http://facebook.com/gravelymaccabre

http://www.etsy.com/shop/gravelymaccabre

On Monday, May 26, 2014 7:46 PM,
“beckieboo817@yahoo.com [runacc]”
<runacc@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

I’ve been on the list for several years.  I’ve also asked for info
for various things while lurking too.

International Costumers’ Guild Archivist

http://www.costume.org/gallery2/main.php

“Those Who Fail to Learn History
Are Doomed to Repeat It;
Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly –
Why They Are Simply Doomed.”

Achemdro’hm
“The Illusion of Historical Fact”
— C. Y. 4971

Andromeda

 

 

I sent it to her as a forward.  Wait & watch.

Elaine

In a message dated 4/17/2013 10:30:45 PM Central Daylight Time,
costumrs@radiks.net writes:

> I believe CC28 provided a
> disc containing the folio to people who joined at
> the door. Henry will have to confirm.

Honestly, I do not remember what we did.

Henry

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Basically, what Byron said. If the membership is said to include the Folio,
then it needs to include the Folio. Either that, or you’re selling
something other than a full membership and that needs to be spelled out.

My NSH $0.02. OTOH, if you’ve distributed the Folio on disk, then you can
distribute at the door the same way. The best you can do is make an
educated guess as to how many you’re going to get total for the con and
plan accordingly. I think we overbought by maybe 100, but with printers
there’s frequently a bulk price break, and that can make all the
difference.

Your mileage may vary. Taxes, tags and license extra.

Betsy

On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 8:24 PM, <osierhenry@cs.com> wrote:

> In a message dated 4/17/2013 10:30:45 PM Central Daylight Time,
> costumrs@radiks.net writes:
> > I believe CC28 provided a
> > disc containing the folio to people who joined at
> > the door. Henry will have to confirm.
> Honestly, I do not remember what we did.
>
> Henry
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ————————————
>
> View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/Yahoo!
> Groups Links
>
>
>
>

—
—
—
Betsy Marks Delaney

http://www.hawkeswood.com/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I only ever got a digi for CC28, so I don’t think you handed out at the
door.

– Sarah

On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 7:24 PM, <osierhenry@cs.com> wrote:

> **
>
>
> In a message dated 4/17/2013 10:30:45 PM Central Daylight Time,
> costumrs@radiks.net writes:
> > I believe CC28 provided a
> > disc containing the folio to people who joined at
> > the door. Henry will have to confirm.
> Honestly, I do not remember what we did.
>
> Henry
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

There are still a (very) few Luddites who dislike electronic/computerized
media. I personally don’t have a problem with printing out my own personal
hard copy from the digital version (our printer even does double-sided).
Granted, a person printing their own copy uses a bit of paper and
ink/toner, but the actual cost is nominal compared to what a job printer
would charge per copy, and the digital copy takes up a lot less storage
space than a hard copy. One also has the option of just printing out hard
copy of those designs which actually made it into the Folio show.

There’s still time before the con to do a small hard-copy run to have for
those who prefer that, and still mostly do CDs for everyone else. A quick
glance at the Staples website indicates that bulk CDs and sleeves for same
would probably run around 35-40 cents total per copy, as opposed to (my
guess) at least $4 or more (especially if color is used for part) for a
print copy.

I do think that even if one received the Folio electronically prior to the
con, a CD would be appreciated.

Tina

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Did not send. Stupid virus.

Henry

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Please don’t click on the link you just received.

Henry, please run a check of your account.

Thanks,

Betsy

—
—
—
Betsy Marks Delaney

http://www.hawkeswood.com/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi,
I was using a laptop at a hotel recently. Yes, I know about the
Spam. I am home now and have changed my password, so, hopefully, it will not
happen again.
Henry

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Here are my thoughts about the CC31 Hotel.

Location: It was nice to find out from the general manager that the highway was built around the hotel. That explains the wacky drag race of getting back on Parker to go down the street. It was also nice that it was close to the King Sooper store. Other stores were also a very close drive.

Staff: Generally, hit and miss. I had great encounters with two of the front desk staff, particularly an older shorter woman and a fair haired younger man. There was a darker skinned woman who was an idiot. She did not seem to understand my simple question of “How far down Parker do I go before I get to Alameda?” One of their Shuttle Drivers did and was very helpful. As was a saleswoman and the general manager. Saturday night, I asked the same supervisor three times for water in room D for my judges, and the two men in the restaraunt before some finally showwed up.

Food: There were a few items that were alright. The Friday dinner pasta bar was terrible. The items were warm and I think they just dumped a can of chopped tomatos in the pan for sauce. The sandwich buffet was lack luster. The burger buffet Saturday lunch time was alright. Julia Hyll recieved a cold bowl of soup in the bar Saturday night. Daren Bost said it took him two hours to get some nachos. The breakfast buffet, the one time I went, was alright, neither crappy or stellar.

My Room: I was in the west tower and is was ok. Only had to ask the front desk once to have housekeeping make up my room. I do not know if they just had not made it there yet or missed me, so I mentioned it.

I am very glad that the fire alarm did not go off during the con. It went off Wednesday night and the previous weekend. The humorous thing was that people in the bar did not budge or bat an eye when it happened Wednesday night.

Henry

Because I ran the SF&F, and helped out in the Green Room during the Historical, I did not see that much of the con.

The displays looked good, what I saw of them. As did the list of panels. The dealers room seemed heavy on the steampunk, but, hey, that’s popular now. No harm in capitalizing on that.

Layout was alright, once you got the lay of the land, which did not take long. I just wondered why general con reg was were it was. There were empty tables near us for SF&F and Historical Reg.

I was surprised to find out how many people made it for the con. It did not seem as crowded as the numbers suggest.

Henry

I forgot to mention one other thing. The business center sucked. One computer was broke the entire time I was there, which was Tuesday night before the con till the Tuesday morning after. Thursday morning, I believe, the printers were out of paper. As was the front desk. A sales woman grabbed some out of her office. One man did the thing I thought of doing, which was plug thier printer into his laptop to print. That did work for him.

Henry

I ran it.

Before I trash myself, I want to comment on the woman, I believe her name was Mary, who was running the green room. During my show, her attitude was very bad. One of the MAC’s volunteered to help, and after some confusion, she gave him lip, then her daughters did. She also pushed my judges. I found all this out after it happened.

My contestants were very cool in the green room, which helped things there.

Now, me.

Yes, I should have had seperate workmanship judges. I had a hard time finding the judges I did.

Apparently, most people felt that I did not give out enough awards. Eleven awards were given out in a field of 31 entries.

If anyone lets me run a masquerade at a costume-con, I will have workmanship judges and give out more awards. But, I feel like that is never going to happen again.

Henry

IF anyone has any questions or concerns about the awards that were given out, you are welcome to contact me, as one of the judges.

Jamie Butler

President of the Madison Area Costuming Society,

Member of the Guilde of St. George

— On Sat, 5/25/13, H W <osierhenry@cs.com> wrote:

From: H W <osierhenry@cs.com>
Subject: [runacc] CC31 SF&F Masquerade
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, May 25, 2013, 2:42 PM

I ran it.

Before I trash myself, I want to comment on the woman, I believe her name was Mary, who was running the green room. During my show, her attitude was very bad. One of the MAC’s volunteered to help, and after some confusion, she gave him lip, then her daughters did. She also pushed my judges. I found all this out after it happened.

My contestants were very cool in the green room, which helped things there.

Now, me.

Yes, I should have had seperate workmanship judges. I had a hard time finding the judges I did.

Apparently, most people felt that I did not give out enough awards. Eleven awards were given out in a field of 31 entries.

If anyone lets me run a masquerade at a costume-con, I will have workmanship judges and give out more awards. But, I feel like that is never going to happen again.

Henry

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: judges

I don’t know who you asked or didn’t. All I can say was you didn’t ask me, and I was available.

RE: awards

No, you didn’t give out enough awards. That number might have been about right PER SECTION – 11 for workmanship, 11 for presentation.

You broke the main tenet: excellence deserves reward. By hamstringing the judges, you became everything we are fighting against. You also fell into the trap of “at X Con, we *fill in the blank* and it works”. Well, this isn’t X Con; it’s Costume-Con, and you know better – or at least you should have.

RE: running a masquerade in future

I hope you have learned from your errors. They were mostly avoidable. No, I would not choose you for an MD anytime soon. In fact, I would probably refuse to be involved with the masquerade at any level were you to be chosen as MD. You have seen masquerades for years, and you know how we like things – and yet you still insisted on acting with an antiquated mindset. It was baffling – and completely unacceptable. For shame.

Karen

— In runacc@yahoogroups.com, “H W” <osierhenry@…> wrote:
>
> I ran it.
>
> Yes, I should have had seperate workmanship judges. I had a hard time finding the judges I did.
>
> Apparently, most people felt that I did not give out enough awards. Eleven awards were given out in a field of 31 entries.
>
> If anyone lets me run a masquerade at a costume-con, I will have workmanship judges and give out more awards. But, I feel like that is never going to happen again.
>
> Henry
>

OK, I’m going to stick my neck out for Henry a little bit here, because I
think there’s a little bit of a harsh attitude being thrown at him.

Were the judges hamstrung? Yes. Were there issues in the green room? Yes.

But who brought up these issues with Henry before or while they were
happening? If there were issues in the green room, someone either among
the contestants or the rest of the masquerade staff needed to speak up with
the Director. If there was an issue with the awards and how they were
handed out, someone among the judges needed to speak up with the Director.
A masquerade director can only address a problem that he or she knows is
happening. That Henry is telling us that he didn’t know about these issues
until afterward tells me that at least some of the onus is on the rest of
us for just plain not speaking up.

Now, yes, part of the responsibility of the Director is to be as accessible
as possible and make it easier for people to bring up their concerns. But
I have never known Henry to be anything but approachable and friendly and
open to bringing up issues.

To be frank, I don’t think that Henry is the only one with something to
learn, here.

I have been a contestant, a director, a judge, a green room helper, a stage
hand, an MC (though, not well on that one and I do the world a service by
never doing it again), and an audience member at various and sundry
masquerades for the past seven years or so. And in each of those roles, I
have found that the best way to head off an issue is to simply speak up.

And, yes, I made the mistake of not speaking up during the masquerade
myself. I will gladly admit to that.

Henry is going to be my Green Room Coordinator for Geek.Kon this August.
He runs a damn good green room, even under difficult circumstances (ChiCon
last fall, anyone?). And I will happily help him with any endeavor that I
can in the future. Why? Because he’s a good guy and because simply saying
“I won’t have anything to do with so-and-so anymore” helps no one learn,
grow, or improve.

Withdrawing from someone who is supportive of and enthusiastic for the
hobby simply because mistakes were made would be a bigger shame.

Learn, teach, fix. Don’t ostracize.

Hopefully I haven’t just made enemies with this post. I’ve got a lot of
work ahead for CC34 and I need all the help and input I can get. So I will
say right here and now that if anyone has any issues with anything
concerning CC34, please speak up and I will look into it. I am also still
sorting out a lot of my feelings about stuff that happened last weekend, so
much so that a week isn’t enough time. So this post is all that I will say
on this. If anyone has concerns about anything in this post, please email
me privately.

Mistakes happened. Let’s fix them. All of us.

– Sarah

On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 6:20 PM, axejudge <axejudge@accessus.net> wrote:

> **
>
>
> RE: judges
>
> I don’t know who you asked or didn’t. All I can say was you didn’t ask me,
> and I was available.
>
> RE: awards
>
> No, you didn’t give out enough awards. That number might have been about
> right PER SECTION – 11 for workmanship, 11 for presentation.
>
> You broke the main tenet: excellence deserves reward. By hamstringing the
> judges, you became everything we are fighting against. You also fell into
> the trap of “at X Con, we *fill in the blank* and it works”. Well, this
> isn’t X Con; it’s Costume-Con, and you know better – or at least you should
> have.
>
> RE: running a masquerade in future
>
> I hope you have learned from your errors. They were mostly avoidable. No,
> I would not choose you for an MD anytime soon. In fact, I would probably
> refuse to be involved with the masquerade at any level were you to be
> chosen as MD. You have seen masquerades for years, and you know how we like
> things – and yet you still insisted on acting with an antiquated mindset.
> It was baffling – and completely unacceptable. For shame.
>
> Karen
>
> — In runacc@yahoogroups.com, “H W” <osierhenry@…> wrote:
> >
> > I ran it.
>
> >
> > Yes, I should have had seperate workmanship judges. I had a hard time
> finding the judges I did.
> >
> > Apparently, most people felt that I did not give out enough awards.
> Eleven awards were given out in a field of 31 entries.
> >
> > If anyone lets me run a masquerade at a costume-con, I will have
> workmanship judges and give out more awards. But, I feel like that is never
> going to happen again.
> >
> > Henry
> >
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I find you a surprising defender, but okay.

How easy was Henry to find to address these issues? I do not know. If he was difficult to locate, how could issues be addressed?

Judges and contestants alike are regularly told that the MD is God, and what s/he says is the law. How then are people to speak up? The judges did not find out they were handling both workmanship and presentation until they got there. What were they to do then: refuse to judge at all unless he found more judges to handle one side or the other? If Henry was having trouble finding judges, what was he to do then? Now, if he was *really* having that much trouble finding judges, perhaps HE should have squeaked up well before the con to get that issue addressed; that’s part of his job.

Admittedly, if I were handed a short list of awards and told that was all I could give, I would ask why, verify if there were enough ribbons for more, then ignore the list – but I’m a bitch that way.

Henry is not a n00b. He has witnessed and been involved with many masquerades. That’s why I, and others, found his decisions completely unfathomable. He knew better. It would be easier to forgive if he hadn’t.

I am not shunning him as a person, nor as a volunteer in any other aspect. He is not a bad guy. And I have no dog in this particular fight; I didn’t compete, so I was not in the position of feeling I had gotten screwed. I do, however, know that Costume-Con is supposed to be where the ICG’s guidelines, and its general tenets about the artform, will be most respected and followed; that it should be the example that other cons should look to. In this I feel this masquerade failed, and that is directly attributable to the MD’s choices.

Karen

— In runacc@yahoogroups.com, Sarah Bloy <berzerker.prime@…> wrote:
>
> OK, I’m going to stick my neck out for Henry a little bit here, because I
> think there’s a little bit of a harsh attitude being thrown at him.
>
> Were the judges hamstrung? Yes. Were there issues in the green room? Yes.
>
> But who brought up these issues with Henry before or while they were
> happening? If there were issues in the green room, someone either among
> the contestants or the rest of the masquerade staff needed to speak up with
> the Director. If there was an issue with the awards and how they were
> handed out, someone among the judges needed to speak up with the Director.
> A masquerade director can only address a problem that he or she knows is
> happening. That Henry is telling us that he didn’t know about these issues
> until afterward tells me that at least some of the onus is on the rest of
> us for just plain not speaking up.
>
> Now, yes, part of the responsibility of the Director is to be as accessible
> as possible and make it easier for people to bring up their concerns. But
> I have never known Henry to be anything but approachable and friendly and
> open to bringing up issues.
>
> To be frank, I don’t think that Henry is the only one with something to
> learn, here.
>
> I have been a contestant, a director, a judge, a green room helper, a stage
> hand, an MC (though, not well on that one and I do the world a service by
> never doing it again), and an audience member at various and sundry
> masquerades for the past seven years or so. And in each of those roles, I
> have found that the best way to head off an issue is to simply speak up.
>
> And, yes, I made the mistake of not speaking up during the masquerade
> myself. I will gladly admit to that.
>
> Henry is going to be my Green Room Coordinator for Geek.Kon this August.
> He runs a damn good green room, even under difficult circumstances (ChiCon
> last fall, anyone?). And I will happily help him with any endeavor that I
> can in the future. Why? Because he’s a good guy and because simply saying
> “I won’t have anything to do with so-and-so anymore” helps no one learn,
> grow, or improve.
>
> Withdrawing from someone who is supportive of and enthusiastic for the
> hobby simply because mistakes were made would be a bigger shame.
>
> Learn, teach, fix. Don’t ostracize.
>
> Hopefully I haven’t just made enemies with this post. I’ve got a lot of
> work ahead for CC34 and I need all the help and input I can get. So I will
> say right here and now that if anyone has any issues with anything
> concerning CC34, please speak up and I will look into it. I am also still
> sorting out a lot of my feelings about stuff that happened last weekend, so
> much so that a week isn’t enough time. So this post is all that I will say
> on this. If anyone has concerns about anything in this post, please email
> me privately.
>
> Mistakes happened. Let’s fix them. All of us.
>
> – Sarah
>
>
>
> On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 6:20 PM, axejudge <axejudge@…> wrote:
>
> > **
> >
> >
> > RE: judges
> >
> > I don’t know who you asked or didn’t. All I can say was you didn’t ask me,
> > and I was available.
> >
> > RE: awards
> >
> > No, you didn’t give out enough awards. That number might have been about
> > right PER SECTION – 11 for workmanship, 11 for presentation.
> >
> > You broke the main tenet: excellence deserves reward. By hamstringing the
> > judges, you became everything we are fighting against. You also fell into
> > the trap of “at X Con, we *fill in the blank* and it works”. Well, this
> > isn’t X Con; it’s Costume-Con, and you know better – or at least you should
> > have.
> >
> > RE: running a masquerade in future
> >
> > I hope you have learned from your errors. They were mostly avoidable. No,
> > I would not choose you for an MD anytime soon. In fact, I would probably
> > refuse to be involved with the masquerade at any level were you to be
> > chosen as MD. You have seen masquerades for years, and you know how we like
> > things – and yet you still insisted on acting with an antiquated mindset.
> > It was baffling – and completely unacceptable. For shame.
> >
> > Karen
> >
> > — In runacc@yahoogroups.com, “H W” <osierhenry@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I ran it.
> >
> > >
> > > Yes, I should have had seperate workmanship judges. I had a hard time
> > finding the judges I did.
> > >
> > > Apparently, most people felt that I did not give out enough awards.
> > Eleven awards were given out in a field of 31 entries.
> > >
> > > If anyone lets me run a masquerade at a costume-con, I will have
> > workmanship judges and give out more awards. But, I feel like that is never
> > going to happen again.
> > >
> > > Henry
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

My one-word description of the hotel is “dim.” I found the dim lighting and tinted windows and mirrors in the public areas very depressing. Of course, it is possible that the dim lighting was intentional, to disguise the shabby surroundings: worn carpets in the halls and worn furniture in the lobby. This may reflect the recent sale of the property and the intent to convert the East Tower to a Radisson. Our East Tower room was marginal. While the lobby came with comfy (if worn) club chairs, the room had a stiff arm chair that looked like the ones in the restaurant; it was extremely uncomfortable. The room lighting was improved once we bought and substituted brighter bulbs that the 40 or 60 watt equivalents in the fixtures. We wondered whether the elevators had been converted from freight elevators, due to their worn appearance.

Service in the restaurant was surprisingly incompetent. On Saturday evening, Tina and I ordered the club burgers. Tina wanted hers without cheese and sauce, and with lemonade. The waiter took our order, then returned to ask me whether she wanted iced tea and no tomatoes! The burgers, surprisingly, were good quality. In contrast, service by hotel staff and in the bar were perfectly adequate.

We would not return to this hotel and would think twice about staying at any Red Lion on the basis of our experience.

Byron

On May 25, 2013, at 3:23 PM, H W <osierhenry@cs.com> wrote:

> Here are my thoughts about the CC31 Hotel.
>
> Location: It was nice to find out from the general manager that the highway was built around the hotel. That explains the wacky drag race of getting back on Parker to go down the street. It was also nice that it was close to the King Sooper store. Other stores were also a very close drive.
>
> Staff: Generally, hit and miss. I had great encounters with two of the front desk staff, particularly an older shorter woman and a fair haired younger man. There was a darker skinned woman who was an idiot. She did not seem to understand my simple question of “How far down Parker do I go before I get to Alameda?” One of their Shuttle Drivers did and was very helpful. As was a saleswoman and the general manager. Saturday night, I asked the same supervisor three times for water in room D for my judges, and the two men in the restaraunt before some finally showwed up.
>
> Food: There were a few items that were alright. The Friday dinner pasta bar was terrible. The items were warm and I think they just dumped a can of chopped tomatos in the pan for sauce. The sandwich buffet was lack luster. The burger buffet Saturday lunch time was alright. Julia Hyll recieved a cold bowl of soup in the bar Saturday night. Daren Bost said it took him two hours to get some nachos. The breakfast buffet, the one time I went, was alright, neither crappy or stellar.
>
> My Room: I was in the west tower and is was ok. Only had to ask the front desk once to have housekeeping make up my room. I do not know if they just had not made it there yet or missed me, so I mentioned it.
>
> I am very glad that the fire alarm did not go off during the con. It went off Wednesday night and the previous weekend. The humorous thing was that people in the bar did not budge or bat an eye when it happened Wednesday night.
>
> Henry
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From the audience, we thought it odd that there were lots of what appeared to be workmanship awards and only best of division and show presentation awards.

Byron

On May 25, 2013, at 3:42 PM, H W <osierhenry@cs.com> wrote:

> I ran it.
>
> Before I trash myself, I want to comment on the woman, I believe her name was Mary, who was running the green room. During my show, her attitude was very bad. One of the MAC’s volunteered to help, and after some confusion, she gave him lip, then her daughters did. She also pushed my judges. I found all this out after it happened.
>
> My contestants were very cool in the green room, which helped things there.
>
> Now, me.
>
> Yes, I should have had seperate workmanship judges. I had a hard time finding the judges I did.
>
> Apparently, most people felt that I did not give out enough awards. Eleven awards were given out in a field of 31 entries.
>
> If anyone lets me run a masquerade at a costume-con, I will have workmanship judges and give out more awards. But, I feel like that is never going to happen again.
>
> Henry
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I second Karen Heim’s remarks about  enjoying Henry’s company, and hoisting a beer with him.

but now after watching him as a con chair and especially as a masq director, twice at least)  everyone just needs to say no.

Henry, just step back and enjoy making costumes and have fun, and step away from admin positions for a while

Gravely MacCabre
http://www.castleblood.com
http://facebook.com/gravelymaccabre
http://etsy.com/shops/gravelymaccabre

tv show clip samples at
http://www.veoh.com/channels/castleblood

________________________________
From: Byron P Connell <byronpconnell@gmail.com>
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 11:21 AM
Subject: Re: [runacc] CC31 SF&F Masquerade

From the audience, we thought it odd that there were lots of what appeared to be workmanship awards and only best of division and show presentation awards.

Byron

On May 25, 2013, at 3:42 PM, H W <osierhenry@cs.com> wrote:

> I ran it.
>
> Before I trash myself, I want to comment on the woman, I believe her name was Mary, who was running the green room. During my show, her attitude was very bad. One of the MAC’s volunteered to help, and after some confusion, she gave him lip, then her daughters did. She also pushed my judges. I found all this out after it happened.
>
> My contestants were very cool in the green room, which helped things there.
>
> Now, me.
>
> Yes, I should have had seperate workmanship judges. I had a hard time finding the judges I did.
>
> Apparently, most people felt that I did not give out enough awards. Eleven awards were given out in a field of 31 entries.
>
> If anyone lets me run a masquerade at a costume-con, I will have workmanship judges and give out more awards. But, I feel like that is never going to happen again.
>
> Henry
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

————————————

View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/Yahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I must agree with Byron, although our room had a comfy chair. The main problem in the restaurant seemed to be with the kitchen staff. While they were capable of turning out surprisingly good food, it took them most of an hour to get it to you. Every day the answer was the same – at least 3 people didn’t come in that day. We missed the Friday Night presentations entirely, and the first 8 entries on Saturday. I am not a big fan of hotel buffets, and the bar was no faster. Yup. No more Red Lions without road testing them.

Elaine

> To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> From: byronpconnell@gmail.com
> Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 11:18:49 -0400
> Subject: Re: [runacc] CC31 Hotel
>
> My one-word description of the hotel is “dim.” I found the dim lighting and tinted windows and mirrors in the public areas very depressing. Of course, it is possible that the dim lighting was intentional, to disguise the shabby surroundings: worn carpets in the halls and worn furniture in the lobby. This may reflect the recent sale of the property and the intent to convert the East Tower to a Radisson. Our East Tower room was marginal. While the lobby came with comfy (if worn) club chairs, the room had a stiff arm chair that looked like the ones in the restaurant; it was extremely uncomfortable. The room lighting was improved once we bought and substituted brighter bulbs that the 40 or 60 watt equivalents in the fixtures. We wondered whether the elevators had been converted from freight elevators, due to their worn appearance.
>
> Service in the restaurant was surprisingly incompetent. On Saturday evening, Tina and I ordered the club burgers. Tina wanted hers without cheese and sauce, and with lemonade. The waiter took our order, then returned to ask me whether she wanted iced tea and no tomatoes! The burgers, surprisingly, were good quality. In contrast, service by hotel staff and in the bar were perfectly adequate.
>
> We would not return to this hotel and would think twice about staying at any Red Lion on the basis of our experience.
>
> Byron
>
>
> On May 25, 2013, at 3:23 PM, H W <osierhenry@cs.com> wrote:
>
> > Here are my thoughts about the CC31 Hotel.
> >
> > Location: It was nice to find out from the general manager that the highway was built around the hotel. That explains the wacky drag race of getting back on Parker to go down the street. It was also nice that it was close to the King Sooper store. Other stores were also a very close drive.
> >
> > Staff: Generally, hit and miss. I had great encounters with two of the front desk staff, particularly an older shorter woman and a fair haired younger man. There was a darker skinned woman who was an idiot. She did not seem to understand my simple question of “How far down Parker do I go before I get to Alameda?” One of their Shuttle Drivers did and was very helpful. As was a saleswoman and the general manager. Saturday night, I asked the same supervisor three times for water in room D for my judges, and the two men in the restaraunt before some finally showwed up.
> >
> > Food: There were a few items that were alright. The Friday dinner pasta bar was terrible. The items were warm and I think they just dumped a can of chopped tomatos in the pan for sauce. The sandwich buffet was lack luster. The burger buffet Saturday lunch time was alright. Julia Hyll recieved a cold bowl of soup in the bar Saturday night. Daren Bost said it took him two hours to get some nachos. The breakfast buffet, the one time I went, was alright, neither crappy or stellar.
> >
> > My Room: I was in the west tower and is was ok. Only had to ask the front desk once to have housekeeping make up my room. I do not know if they just had not made it there yet or missed me, so I mentioned it.
> >
> > I am very glad that the fire alarm did not go off during the con. It went off Wednesday night and the previous weekend. The humorous thing was that people in the bar did not budge or bat an eye when it happened Wednesday night.
> >
> > Henry
> >
> >
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ————————————
>
> View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I don’t agree. I’ve been running masquerades, off and on, for over 20 years. There hasn’t been one where I haven’t screwed something up, including CC 10, Arisia 2002, CC 24, CC 25, several Philcons, Anticipation, CC 29, and ChiCon 7. Going into ChiCon, Henry had done every major job in a masquerade except green room manager, so that’s the job I gave him. He performed superbly. (That wasn’t one of my ChiCon screw-ups.)

Some of us believe that Henry screwed some things up. So? The MD is Ghod, after all. He makes the rules, organizes the show, and chooses the judges. What do you do if you don’t like what Ghod did? I’ve acknowledged my screw-ups as Ghod; I’ve never apologized for them publicly.

Byron

On May 27, 2013, at 11:29 AM, Gravely MacCabre <gravelymac@yahoo.com> wrote:

> I second Karen Heim’s remarks about enjoying Henry’s company, and hoisting a beer with him.
>
> but now after watching him as a con chair and especially as a masq director, twice at least) everyone just needs to say no.
>
> Henry, just step back and enjoy making costumes and have fun, and step away from admin positions for a while
>
>
> Gravely MacCabre
> http://www.castleblood.com
> http://facebook.com/gravelymaccabre
> http://etsy.com/shops/gravelymaccabre
>
> tv show clip samples at
> http://www.veoh.com/channels/castleblood
>
> ________________________________
> From: Byron P Connell <byronpconnell@gmail.com>
> To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 11:21 AM
> Subject: Re: [runacc] CC31 SF&F Masquerade
>
>
> From the audience, we thought it odd that there were lots of what appeared to be workmanship awards and only best of division and show presentation awards.
>
> Byron
>
> On May 25, 2013, at 3:42 PM, H W <osierhenry@cs.com> wrote:
>
> > I ran it.
> >
> > Before I trash myself, I want to comment on the woman, I believe her name was Mary, who was running the green room. During my show, her attitude was very bad. One of the MAC’s volunteered to help, and after some confusion, she gave him lip, then her daughters did. She also pushed my judges. I found all this out after it happened.
> >
> > My contestants were very cool in the green room, which helped things there.
> >
> > Now, me.
> >
> > Yes, I should have had seperate workmanship judges. I had a hard time finding the judges I did.
> >
> > Apparently, most people felt that I did not give out enough awards. Eleven awards were given out in a field of 31 entries.
> >
> > If anyone lets me run a masquerade at a costume-con, I will have workmanship judges and give out more awards. But, I feel like that is never going to happen again.
> >
> > Henry
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> ————————————
>
> View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Byron, you are right of course, ( other than the fact that I never hear people bitch about stuff you do) so what do I do if I dont like what ghod does?
I suggest people might refrain from going to that church again, thats all. and I was probably out of line to say that henry impose that on himself.

and there are many times that no one else raises a hand to do a job, so, we sometimes choose the flawed ghod we know. point taken

Gravely MacCabre
http://www.castleblood.com
http://facebook.com/gravelymaccabre
http://etsy.com/shops/gravelymaccabre

tv show clip samples at
http://www.veoh.com/channels/castleblood

________________________________
From: Byron P Connell <byronpconnell@gmail.com>
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 9:14 PM
Subject: Re: [runacc] CC31 SF&F Masquerade

I don’t agree.  I’ve been running masquerades, off and on, for over 20 years.  There hasn’t been one where I haven’t screwed something up, including CC 10, Arisia 2002, CC 24, CC 25, several Philcons, Anticipation, CC 29, and ChiCon 7.  Going into ChiCon, Henry had done every major job in a masquerade except green room manager, so that’s the job I gave him.  He performed superbly.  (That wasn’t one of my ChiCon screw-ups.)

Some of us believe that Henry screwed some things up.  So?  The MD is Ghod, after all.  He makes the rules, organizes the show, and chooses the judges.  What do you do if you don’t like what Ghod did?  I’ve acknowledged my screw-ups as Ghod; I’ve never apologized for them publicly.

Byron

On May 27, 2013, at 11:29 AM, Gravely MacCabre <gravelymac@yahoo.com> wrote:

> I second Karen Heim’s remarks about  enjoying Henry’s company, and hoisting a beer with him.
>
> but now after watching him as a con chair and especially as a masq director, twice at least)  everyone just needs to say no.
>
> Henry, just step back and enjoy making costumes and have fun, and step away from admin positions for a while
>
>
> Gravely MacCabre
> http://www.castleblood.com
> http://facebook.com/gravelymaccabre
> http://etsy.com/shops/gravelymaccabre
>
> tv show clip samples at
> http://www.veoh.com/channels/castleblood
>
> ________________________________
> From: Byron P Connell <byronpconnell@gmail.com>
> To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 11:21 AM
> Subject: Re: [runacc] CC31 SF&F Masquerade
>
>
> From the audience, we thought it odd that there were lots of what appeared to be workmanship awards and only best of division and show presentation awards.
>
> Byron
>
> On May 25, 2013, at 3:42 PM, H W <osierhenry@cs.com> wrote:
>
> > I ran it.
> >
> > Before I trash myself, I want to comment on the woman, I believe her name was Mary, who was running the green room. During my show, her attitude was very bad. One of the MAC’s volunteered to help, and after some confusion, she gave him lip, then her daughters did. She also pushed my judges. I found all this out after it happened.
> >
> > My contestants were very cool in the green room, which helped things there.
> >
> > Now, me.
> >
> > Yes, I should have had seperate workmanship judges. I had a hard time finding the judges I did.
> >
> > Apparently, most people felt that I did not give out enough awards. Eleven awards were given out in a field of 31 entries.
> >
> > If anyone lets me run a masquerade at a costume-con, I will have workmanship judges and give out more awards. But, I feel like that is never going to happen again.
> >
> > Henry
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> ————————————
>
> View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

————————————

View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/Yahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ricky,

After CC28, I worked eight conventions. Last year, six. This year, four, and two of them are what I call day jobs, things I can do in a day. I want to start going to cons again for the fun of it. And it is going to take some work to get to that point.

Karen Heim,

How many masquerades you run lately? How many conventions you work lately? I expected you to compete.

To everyone,

I could ask “Gee, should I have waited for everyone to say something, or just waited for the silent fall-out repercussions?” But, too late for that. I stood up on my two hind legs and ‘fessed up. And I am not going try dodging the bullets by saying “Well, I ran the list of awards past Mike, and he didn’t say anything.” My masquerade, my decisions. I did not do my best and I admitted it. I am not asking for everyone’s forgiveness. I decided to state what I heard was being said and confess to my errors.

And there is one question that no one has asked me.

Henry

— In runacc@yahoogroups.com, Gravely MacCabre <gravelymac@…> wrote:
>
> Byron, you are right of course, ( other than the fact that I never hear people bitch about stuff you do) so what do I do if I dont like what ghod does?
> I suggest people might refrain from going to that church again, thats all. and I was probably out of line to say that henry impose that on himself.
>
> and there are many times that no one else raises a hand to do a job, so, we sometimes choose the flawed ghod we know. point taken
>
>
>
> Gravely MacCabre
> http://www.castleblood.com
> http://facebook.com/gravelymaccabre
> http://etsy.com/shops/gravelymaccabre
>

RE: running masquerades

Now that’s an unfair question and you know it. Cons around here have MDs who run it every year; no openings available. As for CC, committees aren’t exactly falling over themselves asking me to do anything, and that is their choice. I participate as I feel able or competent. Fair enough that you thought I would compete; a simple email would have verified it one way or the other.

Karen

— In runacc@yahoogroups.com, “H W” <osierhenry@…> wrote:
>
> Karen Heim,
>
> How many masquerades you run lately? How many conventions you work lately? I expected you to compete.
>
> To everyone,
>
> I could ask “Gee, should I have waited for everyone to say something, or just waited for the silent fall-out repercussions?” But, too late for that. I stood up on my two hind legs and ‘fessed up. And I am not going try dodging the bullets by saying “Well, I ran the list of awards past Mike, and he didn’t say anything.” My masquerade, my decisions. I did not do my best and I admitted it. I am not asking for everyone’s forgiveness. I decided to state what I heard was being said and confess to my errors.
>
> And there is one question that no one has asked me.
>
> Henry
>

Karen —

What are you doing for the LoneStarCon masquerade? I know Jill Eastlake is looking for staff.

Byron

On May 28, 2013, at 6:03 PM, axejudge <axejudge@accessus.net> wrote:

> RE: running masquerades
>
> Now that’s an unfair question and you know it. Cons around here have MDs who run it every year; no openings available. As for CC, committees aren’t exactly falling over themselves asking me to do anything, and that is their choice. I participate as I feel able or competent. Fair enough that you thought I would compete; a simple email would have verified it one way or the other.
>
> Karen
>
> — In runacc@yahoogroups.com, “H W” <osierhenry@…> wrote:
> >
> > Karen Heim,
> >
> > How many masquerades you run lately? How many conventions you work lately? I expected you to compete.
> >
> > To everyone,
> >
> > I could ask “Gee, should I have waited for everyone to say something, or just waited for the silent fall-out repercussions?” But, too late for that. I stood up on my two hind legs and ‘fessed up. And I am not going try dodging the bullets by saying “Well, I ran the list of awards past Mike, and he didn’t say anything.” My masquerade, my decisions. I did not do my best and I admitted it. I am not asking for everyone’s forgiveness. I decided to state what I heard was being said and confess to my errors.
> >
> > And there is one question that no one has asked me.
> >
> > Henry
> >
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > Now that’s an unfair question and you know it. Cons around here have MDs
> who run it every year; no openings available. As for CC, committees aren’t
> exactly falling over themselves asking me to do anything, and that is their
> choice. I participate as I feel able or competent.
>

For the record, I didn’t wait around for Michael to fall over himself, I
went to him when I heard about his bid and asked for a Masquerade because I
thought I’d be ready. I’ve found that waiting around often produces no
results, you’ve got to put yourself out there.

~Aurora

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I no longer attend Worldcons. They are too expensive.

— In runacc@yahoogroups.com, Byron P Connell <byronpconnell@…> wrote:
>
> Karen —
>
> What are you doing for the LoneStarCon masquerade? I know Jill Eastlake is looking for staff.
>
> Byron
>
>
> On May 28, 2013, at 6:03 PM, axejudge <axejudge@…> wrote:
>
> > RE: running masquerades
> >
> > Now that’s an unfair question and you know it. Cons around here have MDs who run it every year; no openings available. As for CC, committees aren’t exactly falling over themselves asking me to do anything, and that is their choice. I participate as I feel able or competent. Fair enough that you thought I would compete; a simple email would have verified it one way or the other.
> >
> > Karen
> >
> > — In runacc@yahoogroups.com, “H W” <osierhenry@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Karen Heim,
> > >
> > > How many masquerades you run lately? How many conventions you work lately? I expected you to compete.
> > >
> > > To everyone,
> > >
> > > I could ask “Gee, should I have waited for everyone to say something, or just waited for the silent fall-out repercussions?” But, too late for that. I stood up on my two hind legs and ‘fessed up. And I am not going try dodging the bullets by saying “Well, I ran the list of awards past Mike, and he didn’t say anything.” My masquerade, my decisions. I did not do my best and I admitted it. I am not asking for everyone’s forgiveness. I decided to state what I heard was being said and confess to my errors.
> > >
> > > And there is one question that no one has asked me.
> > >
> > > Henry
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Sarah, I will not speak on behalf of other judges, nor can I comment liberally on what
we all know is traditionally a verboden topic, “what goes on in the judging chambers”,
but I myself specifically asked Henry about the reasons for his method and he was very open
about his reasoning which had noble intent.

As somebody pointed out earlier in this thread, there is an understood rule that “The Masquerade
Director is GOHD”and we should all strive to be respectful of our Masquerade Directors and work as
part of a TEAM when we are on the masquerade crew.

Even if I may do things differently myself when I am director of a masquerade, I respect
Henry for openly standing by his decision and not laying blame elsewhere.

P.S. On another note the judges were all wonderful and very thoughtful in their selections, and our clerk
was above and beyond terrific. 🙂

Dawn McKechnie – Costume-Con 32 Chair.
Toronto, ON – April 25-28 2014
www.costumecon32.com

> To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> From: berzerker.prime@gmail.com

” someone among the judges needed to speak up with the Director.”

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

If you haven’t been reading this string you should give it a look.
Amongst the sturm und drang are some valid points and interesting ideas.

For instance:
renting equipment for the photographer if he has to travel
covering that equipment under the con insurance
including ordering information in the reg packets
making sure that a full set of photos is donated to the Archives (my personal favorite)

Shall we discuss?

As a former CC chair and a *very* veteran attendee, I agree with all of those points. The third & fourth items are my faves, followed by insuring all tech equipment. Renting is an option I would take if the pro I wanted for *my* con couldn’t afford to trek their stuff across the country, but wanted to attend.
Elaine

If you haven’t been reading this string you should give it a look.

Amongst the sturm und drang are some valid points and interesting ideas.

For instance:

renting equipment for the photographer if he has to travel

covering that equipment under the con insurance

including ordering information in the reg packets

making sure that a full set of photos is donated to the Archives (my personal favorite)

Shall we discuss?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

While I do not have access to its details, at ChiCon 7, official photography had its own budget lines, as it ought at any con (in my opinion). In addition, in my opinion, any con should carry sufficient liability insurance (usually in the form of an “inland marine” policy) to cover the potential costs of damage or injury. This ought to be regarded as an obligation, the same as paying the ASCAP/BMI license fees to use music at its events.

Neither Costume-Con nor any other con is an ICG function. If a CC decides to donate a set of photos to the archives, well and good. Presumably, it has budgeted the expense. If not, the ICG ought to be prepared to pay for a set if it wants one (says someone who has, in the past, paid personally for the archive’s copy).

Byron

On May 31, 2013, at 7:09 PM, “Nora” <von_drago@yahoo.com> wrote:

> If you haven’t been reading this string you should give it a look.
> Amongst the sturm und drang are some valid points and interesting ideas.
>
> For instance:
> renting equipment for the photographer if he has to travel
> covering that equipment under the con insurance
> including ordering information in the reg packets
> making sure that a full set of photos is donated to the Archives (my personal favorite)
>
> Shall we discuss?
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Currently the ICG Archives are in a position to purchase, they have some
budget now. In the past it has certainly been paid for by others (thank you
Byron) including the current Archivists with no thought to re-imbursement
(essentially donated) and that will probably happen again. And some CCs have
donated a set of photos to the Archives.
It is up to each CC to make the decision whether to acquire a set for the
Archives if they’re interested, and budget for it. I’m not saying it should
come out of the photog’s pocket, I’d just like it to be more consistent.

Actually the CC site needs those photos too. It would probably be redundant
to ask for two sets but if a set were donated to the Archives it would then
be shared to the CC site for their records while the Archives retained the
original set for historical purposes.

Nora

—–Original Message—–
From: runacc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:runacc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Byron Connell
Sent: Friday, May 31, 2013 8:34 PM
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [runacc] photo discussion on the ICG-D list

While I do not have access to its details, at ChiCon 7, official photography
had its own budget lines, as it ought at any con (in my opinion). In
addition, in my opinion, any con should carry sufficient liability insurance
(usually in the form of an “inland marine” policy) to cover the potential
costs of damage or injury. This ought to be regarded as an obligation, the
same as paying the ASCAP/BMI license fees to use music at its events.

Neither Costume-Con nor any other con is an ICG function. If a CC decides
to donate a set of photos to the archives, well and good. Presumably, it
has budgeted the expense. If not, the ICG ought to be prepared to pay for a
set if it wants one (says someone who has, in the past, paid personally for
the archive’s copy).

Byron

On May 31, 2013, at 7:09 PM, “Nora” <von_drago@yahoo.com> wrote:

> If you haven’t been reading this string you should give it a look.
> Amongst the sturm und drang are some valid points and interesting ideas.
>
> For instance:
> renting equipment for the photographer if he has to travel covering
> that equipment under the con insurance including ordering information
> in the reg packets making sure that a full set of photos is donated to
> the Archives (my personal favorite)
>
> Shall we discuss?
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

————————————

View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/Yahoo! Groups
Links

—–
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG – www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus Database: 3184/6373 – Release Date: 05/31/13

I am prompted to write this here because of Nora’s requests on the ICG-D
list for the Doll contest participants and awards, and Kevin’s for the
Single Pattern Contest.

Back in the golden age, when I still was able to function as Costume-Con
Archivist, I found myself begging for event participant run lists and award
lists. Every. Single. Year.

I haven’t been able to attend a CC since 27 and I stepped down as Archivist
for 25.
Why are people still having to ask for this data? It should be a given by
now, and if it isn’t included in the ConStitution, it should be.

1. The documenting of our event participants and their awards (if any) is a
requirement at each Costume-Con, and Event Directors (Science
Fiction/Fantasy, Historical, Single Pattern, etc.) should plan to provide
this information *automatically* without question to whomever serves as CC
Archivist, for including in the online Costume-Con Archives.

Photographs should be arranged for ALL competitions and displays, for
archival purposes. Photographs should include any paper documentation (if
possible) to assist with labeling photographs received, and any printed
guides (for the exhibits or otherwise) should also be provided.

2. The current Costume-Con Archivist should be published on the site
clearly, so that CC event directors know to whom they need to send the
material.

My constant begging onsite was still insufficient to get the information
when people failed to be organized about keeping it.

Awards lists, while great for stoking egos onsite and after, are incomplete
information.

C’mon folks! It’s not that hard to get this information where it belongs.

Betsy

—
—
—
Betsy Marks Delaney

http://www.hawkeswood.com/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

A side note: I had already posted the run order & awards for the SP before
Kevin asked for them.
Just so’s you know.

Nora

—–Original Message—–
From: runacc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:runacc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Betsy Marks Delaney
Sent: Monday, June 03, 2013 6:27 AM
To: List, Run a CC
Subject: [runacc] At last, motivation to write something…

I am prompted to write this here because of Nora’s requests on the ICG-D
list for the Doll contest participants and awards, and Kevin’s for the
Single Pattern Contest.

Back in the golden age, when I still was able to function as Costume-Con
Archivist, I found myself begging for event participant run lists and award
lists. Every. Single. Year.

I haven’t been able to attend a CC since 27 and I stepped down as Archivist
for 25.
Why are people still having to ask for this data? It should be a given by
now, and if it isn’t included in the ConStitution, it should be.

1. The documenting of our event participants and their awards (if any) is a
requirement at each Costume-Con, and Event Directors (Science
Fiction/Fantasy, Historical, Single Pattern, etc.) should plan to provide
this information *automatically* without question to whomever serves as CC
Archivist, for including in the online Costume-Con Archives.

Photographs should be arranged for ALL competitions and displays, for
archival purposes. Photographs should include any paper documentation (if
possible) to assist with labeling photographs received, and any printed
guides (for the exhibits or otherwise) should also be provided.

2. The current Costume-Con Archivist should be published on the site
clearly, so that CC event directors know to whom they need to send the
material.

My constant begging onsite was still insufficient to get the information
when people failed to be organized about keeping it.

Awards lists, while great for stoking egos onsite and after, are incomplete
information.

C’mon folks! It’s not that hard to get this information where it belongs.

Betsy

—
—
—
Betsy Marks Delaney

http://www.hawkeswood.com/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

————————————

View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/Yahoo! Groups
Links

—–
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG – www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus Database: 3184/6378 – Release Date: 06/02/13

I did notice. I just wish I didn’t see the requests going up because the
info was neatly organized and handed to the archivist(s) at or immediately
after the con, without needing a request at all.

At least there was one good thing: I just read through the ConStitution for
the first time in about 8 years, and discovered it was still listing my old
Bowie address. Obviously the doc needs updating so now would be an
excellent time to gather together and review it for other
additions/corrections. And I understand that there’s a distinct need for a
web manager for the site, so if anyone is interested in stepping up, please
say something. The site’s not hard to maintain and if you have Gallery
experience already, that’s a big plus.

I can’t – chances continue to go down that I’ll attend Toronto next year as
it falls smack in the middle of the semester and will likely not be during
my spring break, and I’m in no position to resume those responsibilities.

The docs are here: http://www.costume-con.org/constitution.shtml

Thanks!

Betsy

On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 7:19 PM, Nora & Bruce Mai <casamai@sbcglobal.net>wrote:

> A side note: I had already posted the run order & awards for the SP before
> Kevin asked for them.
> Just so’s you know.
>
> Nora
>
> —–Original Message—–
> From: runacc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:runacc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> Betsy Marks Delaney
> Sent: Monday, June 03, 2013 6:27 AM
> To: List, Run a CC
> Subject: [runacc] At last, motivation to write something…
>
> I am prompted to write this here because of Nora’s requests on the ICG-D
> list for the Doll contest participants and awards, and Kevin’s for the
> Single Pattern Contest.
>
> Back in the golden age, when I still was able to function as Costume-Con
> Archivist, I found myself begging for event participant run lists and award
> lists. Every. Single. Year.
>
> I haven’t been able to attend a CC since 27 and I stepped down as Archivist
> for 25.
> Why are people still having to ask for this data? It should be a given by
> now, and if it isn’t included in the ConStitution, it should be.
>
> 1. The documenting of our event participants and their awards (if any) is a
> requirement at each Costume-Con, and Event Directors (Science
> Fiction/Fantasy, Historical, Single Pattern, etc.) should plan to provide
> this information *automatically* without question to whomever serves as CC
> Archivist, for including in the online Costume-Con Archives.
>
> Photographs should be arranged for ALL competitions and displays, for
> archival purposes. Photographs should include any paper documentation (if
> possible) to assist with labeling photographs received, and any printed
> guides (for the exhibits or otherwise) should also be provided.
>
> 2. The current Costume-Con Archivist should be published on the site
> clearly, so that CC event directors know to whom they need to send the
> material.
>
>
> My constant begging onsite was still insufficient to get the information
> when people failed to be organized about keeping it.
>
> Awards lists, while great for stoking egos onsite and after, are incomplete
> information.
>
> C’mon folks! It’s not that hard to get this information where it belongs.
>
> Betsy
>
> —
> —
> —
> Betsy Marks Delaney
>
> http://www.hawkeswood.com/
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ————————————
>
> View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/Yahoo!
> Groups
> Links
>
>
>
> —–
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG – www.avg.com
> Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus Database: 3184/6378 – Release Date: 06/02/13
>
>
>
> ————————————
>
> View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/Yahoo!
> Groups Links
>
>
>
>

—
—
—
Betsy Marks Delaney

http://www.hawkeswood.com/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

little of the contact info on the constitution is valid anymore. that phone numbers been dead since 2010, it was the old castle blood business number.

Gravely MacCabre
http://www.castleblood.com
http://facebook.com/gravelymaccabre
http://etsy.com/shops/gravelymaccabre

tv show clip samples at
http://www.veoh.com/channels/castleblood

________________________________
From: Betsy Marks Delaney <aramintamd@gmail.com>
To: “List, Run a CC” <runacc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, June 3, 2013 8:00 PM
Subject: Re: [runacc] At last, motivation to write something…

I did notice. I just wish I didn’t see the requests going up because the
info was neatly organized and handed to the archivist(s) at or immediately
after the con, without needing a request at all.

At least there was one good thing: I just read through the ConStitution for
the first time in about 8 years, and discovered it was still listing my old
Bowie address. Obviously the doc needs updating so now would be an
excellent time to gather together and review it for other
additions/corrections. And I understand that there’s a distinct need for a
web manager for the site, so if anyone is interested in stepping up, please
say something. The site’s not hard to maintain and if you have Gallery
experience already, that’s a big plus.

I can’t – chances continue to go down that I’ll attend Toronto next year as
it falls smack in the middle of the semester and will likely not be during
my spring break, and I’m in no position to resume those responsibilities.

The docs are here: http://www.costume-con.org/constitution.shtml

Thanks!

Betsy

On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 7:19 PM, Nora & Bruce Mai <casamai@sbcglobal.net>wrote:

> A side note: I had already posted the run order & awards for the SP before
> Kevin asked for them.
> Just so’s you know.
>
> Nora
>
> —–Original Message—–
> From: runacc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:runacc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> Betsy Marks Delaney
> Sent: Monday, June 03, 2013 6:27 AM
> To: List, Run a CC
> Subject: [runacc] At last, motivation to write something…
>
> I am prompted to write this here because of Nora’s requests on the ICG-D
> list for the Doll contest participants and awards, and Kevin’s for the
> Single Pattern Contest.
>
> Back in the golden age, when I still was able to function as Costume-Con
> Archivist, I found myself begging for event participant run lists and award
> lists. Every. Single. Year.
>
> I haven’t been able to attend a CC since 27 and I stepped down as Archivist
> for 25.
> Why are people still having to ask for this data? It should be a given by
> now, and if it isn’t included in the ConStitution, it should be.
>
> 1. The documenting of our event participants and their awards (if any) is a
> requirement at each Costume-Con, and Event Directors (Science
> Fiction/Fantasy, Historical, Single Pattern, etc.) should plan to provide
> this information *automatically* without question to whomever serves as CC
> Archivist, for including in the online Costume-Con Archives.
>
> Photographs should be arranged for ALL competitions and displays, for
> archival purposes. Photographs should include any paper documentation (if
> possible) to assist with labeling photographs received, and any printed
> guides (for the exhibits or otherwise) should also be provided.
>
> 2. The current Costume-Con Archivist should be published on the site
> clearly, so that CC event directors know to whom they need to send the
> material.
>
>
> My constant begging onsite was still insufficient to get the information
> when people failed to be organized about keeping it.
>
> Awards lists, while great for stoking egos onsite and after, are incomplete
> information.
>
> C’mon folks! It’s not that hard to get this information where it belongs.
>
> Betsy
>
> —
> —
> —
> Betsy Marks Delaney
>
> http://www.hawkeswood.com/
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ————————————
>
> View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/Yahoo!
> Groups
> Links
>
>
>
> —–
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG – www.avg.com
> Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus Database: 3184/6378 – Release Date: 06/02/13
>
>
>
> ————————————
>
> View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/Yahoo!
> Groups Links
>
>
>
>

—
—
—
Betsy Marks Delaney

http://www.hawkeswood.com/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Moving over here for what may or may not be idle speculation:

Could someone purchase an event “ticket”/”membership” to enter an event,
not just attend? Or would the need for a rehearsal time outside of the
membership be used to make this invalid?

On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 4:49 PM, Kaijugal . <kaijugal@hotmail.com> wrote:

> I agree. This is something I feel that we may adopt for CC32. ^_^ It’s not
> an upcharge but a select ticket and
> it makes sense. 🙂
>
> Dawn McKechnie – Costume-Con 32 Chair.
> Toronto, ON – April 25-28 2014
> www.costumecon32.com
>
> To: ICG-D@yahoogroups.com
> From: wilberforcebarb@yahoo.ca
> Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2013 11:16:43 -0700
> Subject: Re: [ICG-D] Cons and membership upgrades
>
>
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>
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>
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> I like the idea of something that allows local family and friends
> who may have no interest in the rest of the con in to see the masquerades.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ————————————
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

i think they need at least the full one day pass to compete that day. I would not argue if the rule was full attending memberships, but that is above my pay grade to decide

Gravely MacCabre
http://www.castleblood.com
http://facebook.com/gravelymaccabre
http://etsy.com/shops/gravelymaccabre

tv show clip samples at
http://www.veoh.com/channels/castleblood

________________________________
From: Aurora Celeste <auroraceleste@gmail.com>
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, June 3, 2013 9:08 PM
Subject: [runacc] Re: [ICG-D] Cons and membership upgrades

Moving over here for what may or may not be idle speculation:

Could someone purchase an event “ticket”/”membership” to enter an event,
not just attend? Or would the need for a rehearsal time outside of the
membership be used to make this invalid?

On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 4:49 PM, Kaijugal . <kaijugal@hotmail.com> wrote:

> I agree. This is something I feel that we may adopt for CC32. ^_^ It’s not
> an upcharge but a select ticket and
> it makes sense. 🙂
>
> Dawn McKechnie – Costume-Con 32 Chair.
> Toronto, ON – April 25-28 2014
> www.costumecon32.com
>
> To: ICG-D@yahoogroups.com
> From: wilberforcebarb@yahoo.ca
> Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2013 11:16:43 -0700
> Subject: Re: [ICG-D] Cons and membership upgrades
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
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> I like the idea of something that allows local family and friends
> who may have no interest in the rest of the con in to see the masquerades.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ————————————
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I agree. At least a one-day membership.

Byron

On Jun 3, 2013, at 9:14 PM, Gravely MacCabre <gravelymac@yahoo.com> wrote:

> i think they need at least the full one day pass to compete that day. I would not argue if the rule was full attending memberships, but that is above my pay grade to decide
>
>
> Gravely MacCabre
> http://www.castleblood.com
> http://facebook.com/gravelymaccabre
> http://etsy.com/shops/gravelymaccabre
>
> tv show clip samples at
> http://www.veoh.com/channels/castleblood
>
> ________________________________
> From: Aurora Celeste <auroraceleste@gmail.com>
> To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, June 3, 2013 9:08 PM
> Subject: [runacc] Re: [ICG-D] Cons and membership upgrades
>
>
>
> Moving over here for what may or may not be idle speculation:
>
> Could someone purchase an event “ticket”/”membership” to enter an event,
> not just attend? Or would the need for a rehearsal time outside of the
> membership be used to make this invalid?
>
> On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 4:49 PM, Kaijugal . <kaijugal@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I agree. This is something I feel that we may adopt for CC32. ^_^ It’s not
> > an upcharge but a select ticket and
> > it makes sense. 🙂
> >
> > Dawn McKechnie – Costume-Con 32 Chair.
> > Toronto, ON – April 25-28 2014
> > www.costumecon32.com
> >
> > To: ICG-D@yahoogroups.com
> > From: wilberforcebarb@yahoo.ca
> > Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2013 11:16:43 -0700
> > Subject: Re: [ICG-D] Cons and membership upgrades
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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> > I like the idea of something that allows local family and friends
> > who may have no interest in the rest of the con in to see the masquerades.
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > ————————————
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

You’d have to ask Henry but I know that one entrant at CC31 wanted to just
enter the FSF and (I think) Henry told him that he’d probably have to pay
for at least a one-day, Saturday.
I overheard part of this cause I was taking entrants for the SP right next
to him, but he’d have to give you the factual details.

Nora

—–Original Message—–
From: runacc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:runacc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Aurora Celeste
Sent: Monday, June 03, 2013 8:08 PM
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [runacc] Re: [ICG-D] Cons and membership upgrades

Moving over here for what may or may not be idle speculation:

Could someone purchase an event “ticket”/”membership” to enter an event,
not just attend? Or would the need for a rehearsal time outside of the
membership be used to make this invalid?

On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 4:49 PM, Kaijugal . <kaijugal@hotmail.com> wrote:

> I agree. This is something I feel that we may adopt for CC32. ^_^ It’s not
> an upcharge but a select ticket and
> it makes sense. 🙂
>
> Dawn McKechnie – Costume-Con 32 Chair.
> Toronto, ON – April 25-28 2014
> www.costumecon32.com
>
> To: ICG-D@yahoogroups.com
> From: wilberforcebarb@yahoo.ca
> Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2013 11:16:43 -0700
> Subject: Re: [ICG-D] Cons and membership upgrades
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
> I like the idea of something that allows local family and friends
> who may have no interest in the rest of the con in to see the masquerades.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ————————————
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

————————————

View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/Yahoo! Groups
Links

—–
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG – www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus Database: 3184/6380 – Release Date: 06/03/13

I think what is being discussed is a pass just to watch an evening masquerade for
moms and dads and friends and whatnot.

Dawn McKechnie – Costume-Con 32 Chair.
Toronto, ON – April 25-28 2014
www.costumecon32.com

To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
From: auroraceleste@gmail.com
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2013 21:08:05 -0400
Subject: [runacc] Re: [ICG-D] Cons and membership upgrades

Moving over here for what may or may not be idle speculation:

Could someone purchase an event “ticket”/”membership” to enter an event,

not just attend? Or would the need for a rehearsal time outside of the

membership be used to make this invalid?

On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 4:49 PM, Kaijugal . <kaijugal@hotmail.com> wrote:

> I agree. This is something I feel that we may adopt for CC32. ^_^ It’s not

> an upcharge but a select ticket and

> it makes sense. 🙂

>

> Dawn McKechnie – Costume-Con 32 Chair.

> Toronto, ON – April 25-28 2014

> www.costumecon32.com

>

> To: ICG-D@yahoogroups.com

> From: wilberforcebarb@yahoo.ca

> Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2013 11:16:43 -0700

> Subject: Re: [ICG-D] Cons and membership upgrades

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

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>

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>

> I like the idea of something that allows local family and friends

> who may have no interest in the rest of the con in to see the masquerades.

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>

>

> ————————————

>

> Yahoo! Groups Links

>

>

>

>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Well, that depends.

The question of how much membership one has to have in order to compete is
not addressed in the ConStitution and has been left up to the individual CC
organizers, so there is no consistent policy either with the availability
of event passes (a better name, I think, than tickets for a variety of
reasons) or with what the minimum membership requirements should be for
allowing competition.

It’s been almost 10 years since I had my head in the document and over 15
since the document was written. I no longer recall all the details that
went into what we included and did not include in its structure. There were
reasons why we opted not to include the finer details (what memberships
should cover, etc) which I think had to do with the differences between how
each conference determined its costs. Whether to include publications or
not, how much those publications cost, room rates and so on – all of these
affect the cost of a membership because in theory the membership is
supposed to cover all the expenses with perhaps a little left over as
cushion against the unexpected, to be paid forward to future CCs once the
books have been balanced, all accounts payable brought back to zero and
everyone reimbursed for expenses as defined by the organization.

That leaves us with the nearly annual discussion of what a membership
should cover and what the minimum requirements should be for entering
competition.

It’s a fine line between offering enough to justify the cost of the
membership and covering the costs by ensuring enough memberships are sold.
That’s why the CCXV budget had so many sliding budget totals. Some of the
expenses were fixed. Others were…less fixed. And some of the found money
helped cover surprise expenses. I can’t speak for the other CCs and the
dollar amounts for CCXV look abnormally small considering today’s costs,
but if you expand for the rate of inflation, the expenses only change by
what you decide the CC is willing to cover in exchange for the membership.

If the stats hold true, most of the membership sales occur within the 9
months prior to the con itself. So if you have advance things that need to
be covered, you need to account for the costs. If you can afford, once the
time goes by, to allow one-day memberships, setting the price of that
membership is based on what the person receives as a result.

Hope this makes sense. As I mentioned offlist yesterday, it’s all sliding
scale, starting with the most expensive (Full-price) membership and is
reduced by discount from there. Upcharges are deceptive and can generate
ill will. People are generally happier if they think they’re getting
something for slightly less, even if that slightly less also includes
reduced access to certain things.

If you can afford to give discounts, that’s what you should do. If not,
then the full price membership is the only way to go. Allowing for early
bird discounts gives the buyer incentive to give you money to spend in
advance.

IMNSHO, that’s how you should be looking at the membership structure for
any given event, not just CC.

Does that make sense?

Betsy

On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 1:23 PM, Kaijugal . <kaijugal@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
> I think what is being discussed is a pass just to watch an evening
> masquerade for
> moms and dads and friends and whatnot.
>
>
> Dawn McKechnie – Costume-Con 32 Chair.
> Toronto, ON – April 25-28 2014
> www.costumecon32.com
>
> To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> From: auroraceleste@gmail.com
> Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2013 21:08:05 -0400
> Subject: [runacc] Re: [ICG-D] Cons and membership upgrades
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Moving over here for what may or may not be idle speculation:
>
>
>
> Could someone purchase an event “ticket”/”membership” to enter an event,
>
> not just attend? Or would the need for a rehearsal time outside of the
>
> membership be used to make this invalid?
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 4:49 PM, Kaijugal . <kaijugal@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > I agree. This is something I feel that we may adopt for CC32. ^_^ It’s
> not
>
> > an upcharge but a select ticket and
>
> > it makes sense. 🙂
>
> >
>
> > Dawn McKechnie – Costume-Con 32 Chair.
>
> > Toronto, ON – April 25-28 2014
>
> > www.costumecon32.com
>
> >
>
> > To: ICG-D@yahoogroups.com
>
> > From: wilberforcebarb@yahoo.ca
>
> > Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2013 11:16:43 -0700
>
> > Subject: Re: [ICG-D] Cons and membership upgrades
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
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> >
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> >
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> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I like the idea of something that allows local family and friends
>
> > who may have no interest in the rest of the con in to see the
> masquerades.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > ————————————
>
> >
>
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
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>
>
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>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ————————————
>
> View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/Yahoo!
> Groups Links
>
>
>
>

—
—
—
Betsy Marks Delaney

http://www.hawkeswood.com/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]