runacc.costume-con.org

Now that Denvention is over, Andy and I finally have a chance to breathe
(case in point: Tuesday I excavated the dining room table — our only
eating table — out from under a year’s worth of crap so we can eat at
it again.).

And, now that I can breathe I’m wrapping up some CC26 chores.

(Before you ask, yes, one of them is getting those blasted Parallel
Dimension in Design certificates mailed, as well the one or two still
left from the masquerades that had to be re-done. I’ve actually been
taking them with me to conventions to hand off in person as much as
possible, but with Worldcon over, now I have to actually resort to the
Post Awful).

One of the happy chores is working up the spreadsheet of contact info
for members who gave us permission to pass it forward to future
Costume-Cons.
So, to whom should I send it for CC27, CC28, and CC29?

At this point, I have about 600 names from the online registration
system with permission to pass along. There is some question whether
the question was asked properly on the paper forms, so Linda (our
registrar) is going back to check before I can release any of those 250
names.

Kevin

In a message dated 8/29/2008 5:26:35 PM Central Daylight Time, chair@cc26.org
writes:

> One of the happy chores is working up the spreadsheet of contact info
> for members who gave us permission to pass it forward to future
> Costume-Cons.
> So, to whom should I send it for CC27, CC28, and CC29?

Me!
Henry Osier
Chief Spy
Costume-Con 28 in Milwaukee in 2010
www.CC28.org
View the latest Intell: http://agent-milw.livejournal.com/
Questions?: http://community.livejournal.com/costume_con_28/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have have sent the spreadsheet onto Henry.

To whom else should I forward it? I don’t really want to just put it
into the YahooGroup filespace.

The on-site forms did not have the permission field included on them (an
unexpected consequence of our on-site staff being almost all from one of
our local recurring conventions; they of course always share their reg.
data with themselves, so it didn’t occur to them that we needed to
record that data), so the spreadsheet has the approx 550 pre-registered
members who gave us permission.

Kevin

osierhenry@cs.com wrote:

>
> In a message dated 8/29/2008 5:26:35 PM Central Daylight Time,
> chair@cc26.org <mailto:chair%40cc26.org>
> writes:
> > One of the happy chores is working up the spreadsheet of contact info
> > for members who gave us permission to pass it forward to future
> > Costume-Cons.
> > So, to whom should I send it for CC27, CC28, and CC29?
> Me!
> Henry Osier
> Chief Spy
> Costume-Con 28 in Milwaukee in 2010
> www.CC28.org
> View the latest Intell: http://agent-milw.livejournal.com/
> <http://agent-milw.livejournal.com/>
> Questions?: http://community.livejournal.com/costume_con_28/
> <http://community.livejournal.com/costume_con_28/>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

After scanning a few hundred photos for the Gallery I’d like to offer a
suggestion for future CC photographers.

Most photographers use a variation of grey for backdrops – light grey,
medium grey, dark grey – all of which have a problem with either the pale
costumes or the dark ones (and there’s a lot of white & black costumes out
there folks – believe me!). Even the medium greys tend to either contrast
too much or not enough.

My suggestion? Brown. Check out Sandy Middleton’s photos from Arisia on the
Gallery. The mottled brown he uses seems to provide a more uniform contrast
to most of the costumes.

Just a thought for when your picking out a photographer – see what colors he
has cause something other than grey would be nice.

Nora

I just mailed pass-along checks from CC26 to the chairs of CC27, CC28,
and CC29
(Lisa wanted me to get them postmarked by today if possible for tax
reasons.).

Let me know when they turn up, if you can.

Happy Holidays!

Kevin

In a message dated 12/31/2008 5:19:05 PM Central Standard Time,
chair@cc26.org writes:

> I just mailed pass-along checks from CC26 to the chairs of CC27, CC28,
> and CC29
> (Lisa wanted me to get them postmarked by today if possible for tax
> reasons.).
>
> Let me know when they turn up, if you can.
>
>
>
>
>

Will do, Kevin!

Henry

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

There wasn’t a lot of twitter activity regarding CC27, but there was
some.

http://search.twitter.com/search?q=%23cc27
(people using the #cc27 “hashtag,” but only a few of us were)

http://search.twitter.com/search?q=%22costume+con%22
(tweets that contain “costume-con” and “costume con”)

http://search.twitter.com/search?q=costumecon
(tweets that contain “costumecon”)

This only gets public tweets. Mostly positive comments. A few not-so-
positive (like this link in @hullacostumes: <http://makotohanabi.livejournal.com/15515.html

>). Following links back to twitter streams of people found in this

search will get you more discussion.

andy

While that last person’s criticisms had some validity (mainly about the
cliques in some quarters), they apparently didn’t talk to many other people
and is unfairly painting the entire con with a broad brush. Their two words
for the con were “high school”. My two words from them are “close-minded”.

Bruce

> —–Original Message—–
> From: runacc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:runacc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> Andrew T Trembley
> Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2009 5:05 PM
> To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [runacc] Twitter was kind of active this weekend…
>
> This only gets public tweets. Mostly positive comments. A few not-so-
> positive (like this link in @hullacostumes:
> <http://makotohanabi.livejournal.com/15515.html
> >). Following links back to twitter streams of people found in this
> search will get you more discussion.
>
> andy

And apparently s/he can’t handle being told they might not be right in all things, as the ability to comment has now been removed (as have all comments already made). So much for the courage of their convictions, huh?

Karen

— In runacc@yahoogroups.com, “Bruce & Nora Mai” <casamai@…> wrote:
>
> While that last person’s criticisms had some validity (mainly about the
> cliques in some quarters), they apparently didn’t talk to many other people
> and is unfairly painting the entire con with a broad brush. Their two words
> for the con were “high school”. My two words from them are “close-minded”.
>
>
> Bruce
>
> > —–Original Message—–
> > From: runacc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:runacc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> > Andrew T Trembley
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2009 5:05 PM
> > To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [runacc] Twitter was kind of active this weekend…
> >
> > This only gets public tweets. Mostly positive comments. A few not-so-
> > positive (like this link in @hullacostumes:
> > <http://makotohanabi.livejournal.com/15515.html
> > >). Following links back to twitter streams of people found in this
> > search will get you more discussion.
> >
> > andy
>

Bruce & Nora Mai wrote:

> While that last person’s criticisms had some validity (mainly about the
> cliques in some quarters), they apparently didn’t talk to many other people
> and is unfairly painting the entire con with a broad brush. Their two words
> for the con were “high school”. My two words from them are “close-minded”.
>

Never said it was fair, or even representative. It’s just a personal report.

It is, however, someone that an acquaintance of mine out in Baltimore
(who works in the big green building across the parking lot from the
Crown Plaza, and who attended and had a great time) knows from local
conventions.

Because of that, I knew about it before the link showed up on twitter.
Surprised me, I figured nobody read that journal. Unfortunately, on
twitter it showed up linked by someone who has around 900 followers.

Not much that can be done about that, but I expect that all the happy,
chirpy posts from folks who had fun will balance things out.

andy

So, over on the SLUTs list, a bit of interesting discussion popped up that
has been brought up before.

Our (meaning the Costume-Con community) philosophy is “Excellence Deserves
Recognition”. This applies to everything except for the Future Fashion Show
– there’s usually only the “Most accurate to Self” and “Most Accurate – not
by the Designer”. Nora and I are more traditionalists on this, and while
we don’t object to a couple of other awards, we think things should stay
essentially as they are. At least one of our people has said if she was
ever in a position to judge for the FFS again, she essentially said she
would ignore the standard model and give out as many awards to people she
believed deserved them.

Our general thinking is:

The FFS is not a competition in the same sense as a masquerade. But I think
some folks look at it that way.

The competition was the Folio. The challenge at the Show is for people to
reproduce the designs as faithfully as possible – not to take someone’s
design and use it as a jumping off point. My perception is that the
designer should be pleased with bringing their drawing to life as they
visualized it. Rewarding anything that fell short but looks pretty
seems…..I dunno….less than faithful to the intent of the show.

The Fashion Show is more relaxed – much like the Single Pattern show.
Making it more of a standard competition has the potential of ratcheting up
the pressure.

Frequently, the Folio has designs that are more costume than clothing – too
many more awards might skew this further, I would think. Where do you draw
the line, then? Would you have to adopt the 33% rule? Where do you draw
the line? On the other extreme, there is a danger of the whole “give
everyone an award that deserves it” more easily getting out of hand.

I’d be interested in hearing what some of you – especially Karen D. – think.

Bruce

Apparently they didn’t like being challenged.

Bruce

> —–Original Message—–
> From: runacc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:runacc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> axejudge
> Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 11:19 AM
> To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [runacc] Re: Twitter was kind of active this weekend…
>
> And apparently s/he can’t handle being told they might not be right in all

things, as

> the ability to comment has now been removed (as have all comments already
> made). So much for the courage of their convictions, huh?
>
> Karen
>
> — In runacc@yahoogroups.com, “Bruce & Nora Mai” <casamai@…> wrote:
> >
> > While that last person’s criticisms had some validity (mainly about the
> > cliques in some quarters), they apparently didn’t talk to many other

people

> > and is unfairly painting the entire con with a broad brush. Their two

words

> > for the con were “high school”. My two words from them are

“close-minded”.

> >
> >
> > Bruce
> >
> > > —–Original Message—–
> > > From: runacc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:runacc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of
> > > Andrew T Trembley
> > > Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2009 5:05 PM
> > > To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [runacc] Twitter was kind of active this weekend…
> > >
> > > This only gets public tweets. Mostly positive comments. A few not-so-
> > > positive (like this link in @hullacostumes:
> > > <http://makotohanabi.livejournal.com/15515.html
> > > >). Following links back to twitter streams of people found in this
> > > search will get you more discussion.
> > >
> > > andy
> >
>
>
>
>
> ————————————
>
> View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/Yahoo!

Groups

> Links
>
>
>

Her post is so weird to me I can’t say I know her as a close friend, but she’s often around east coast cons, not just anime, and always friendly, and always stops to chat, and never seems full of young cosplayers angst or anything.

Very odd, would never have thought it, and she certainly voiced no problems, nor gave me the cold shoulder at the con.

hey, no con is perfect, but plenty of other folks I only know a little, had no problem coming up to me to voice their ‘opinions’ on how things were going 😉

So I am confused

Ricky

________________________________

Apparently they didn’t like being challenged.

Bruce

>
> And apparently s/he can’t handle being told they might not be right in all

things, as

> the ability to comment has now been removed (as have all comments already
> made). So much for the courage of their convictions, huh?
>
> Karen
>
> — In runacc@yahoogroups. com, “Bruce & Nora Mai” <casamai@… > wrote:
> >
> > While that last person’s criticisms had some validity (mainly about the
> > cliques in some quarters), they apparently didn’t talk to many other

people

> > and is unfairly painting the entire con with a broad brush. Their two

words

> > for the con were “high school”. My two words from them are

“close-minded” .

> >
> >
> > Bruce
> >
> > > —–Original Message—–
> > > From: runacc@yahoogroups. com [mailto:runacc@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf
> Of
> > > Andrew T Trembley
> > > Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2009 5:05 PM
> > > To: runacc@yahoogroups. com
> > > Subject: [runacc] Twitter was kind of active this weekend…
> > >
> > > This only gets public tweets. Mostly positive comments. A few not-so-
> > > positive (like this link in @hullacostumes:
> > > <http://makotohanabi .livejournal. com/15515. html
> > > >). Following links back to twitter streams of people found in this
> > > search will get you more discussion.
> > >
> > > andy
> >
>
>
>
>
> ———— ——— ——— ——
>
> View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/Yahoo!

Groups

> Links
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Eh, sometimes you just have to accept that one con isn’t always everyone’s
cup of tea. Sad that it couldn’t just be expressed that way.

On Sat, May 9, 2009 at 12:36 PM, Gravely MacCabre <gravelymac@yahoo.com>wrote:

> Her post is so weird to me I can’t say I know her as a close friend, but
> she’s often around east coast cons, not just anime, and always friendly, and
> always stops to chat, and never seems full of young cosplayers angst or
> anything.
>
> Very odd, would never have thought it, and she certainly voiced no
> problems, nor gave me the cold shoulder at the con.
>
> hey, no con is perfect, but plenty of other folks I only know a little, had
> no problem coming up to me to voice their ‘opinions’ on how things were
> going 😉
>
> So I am confused
>
>
> Ricky
>
>
> ________________________________
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I think Fashion Show awards should be minimal.

Like you said– Best as executed by Designer and Best as executed by Non-Designer.

The real competition was the design contest, and getting into the folio, so the participants are already making up designs that have won something.

Think of the FFS as a showcase, and fun, vs. OMG another competition.

But I can see where some will not want to put forth the time and effort unless there are multiple awards involved.

If somebody has a better model, let’s hear discussion.

Back in the day (Trek conventions in the 80’s run by Bjo Triimble), there were NO awards for being in the FFS–it was just a cool way to make another costume for the convention and be on stage a second time.

–Karen

—– Original Message —–
From: Bruce & Nora Mai
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 1:24 PM
Subject: [runacc] Future Fashion Show Awards

So, over on the SLUTs list, a bit of interesting discussion popped up that
has been brought up before.

Our (meaning the Costume-Con community) philosophy is “Excellence Deserves
Recognition”. This applies to everything except for the Future Fashion Show
– there’s usually only the “Most accurate to Self” and “Most Accurate – not
by the Designer”. Nora and I are more traditionalists on this, and while
we don’t object to a couple of other awards, we think things should stay
essentially as they are. At least one of our people has said if she was
ever in a position to judge for the FFS again, she essentially said she
would ignore the standard model and give out as many awards to people she
believed deserved them.

Our general thinking is:

The FFS is not a competition in the same sense as a masquerade. But I think
some folks look at it that way.

The competition was the Folio. The challenge at the Show is for people to
reproduce the designs as faithfully as possible – not to take someone’s
design and use it as a jumping off point. My perception is that the
designer should be pleased with bringing their drawing to life as they
visualized it. Rewarding anything that fell short but looks pretty
seems…..I dunno….less than faithful to the intent of the show.

The Fashion Show is more relaxed – much like the Single Pattern show.
Making it more of a standard competition has the potential of ratcheting up
the pressure.

Frequently, the Folio has designs that are more costume than clothing – too
many more awards might skew this further, I would think. Where do you draw
the line, then? Would you have to adopt the 33% rule? Where do you draw
the line? On the other extreme, there is a danger of the whole “give
everyone an award that deserves it” more easily getting out of hand.

I’d be interested in hearing what some of you – especially Karen D. – think.

Bruce

——————————————————————————

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG – www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.287 / Virus Database: 270.12.23/2106 – Release Date: 05/09/09 06:54:00

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I agree 100%! I love the less-a-contest aspect of the FFS.

I think my pesky Single Pattern Competition helped muddy the waters
because it does have more awards, and then the pieces were put often on
the same runway as the Future Fashion Show pieces.

Waxing pedantic: considering this from a presentation/informatics point
of view: the audience isn’t necessarily going to care/process the
information that they were seeing the end results of two different
competition/construction processes ending up on one stage; they’re just
going to hear a bunch of awards at the Fashion Show unless the script
really explains it in words of small syllables. (That’s not intended as
a slam; the show engages our visual/spacial thought processes while
really considering the rules, etc engages the literal/math processes.
It’s hard to slam back and forth between them when you are in the
audience receiving the information).

(I’ve learned a lot more about this since kicking off the SPC at CC12 as
I’ve done more public speaking/science presentations, especially
comparing the general audience talks that I do with the usually ghastly
technical presentations I have to sit through. I’d never made the
award/contest confusion connection in my head before!)

Kevin

Ricky & Karen Dick wrote:

>
>
> I think Fashion Show awards should be minimal.
>
> Like you said– Best as executed by Designer and Best as executed by
> Non-Designer.
>
> The real competition was the design contest, and getting into the
> folio, so the participants are already making up designs that have won
> something.
>
> Think of the FFS as a showcase, and fun, vs. OMG another competition.
>
> But I can see where some will not want to put forth the time and
> effort unless there are multiple awards involved.
>
> If somebody has a better model, let’s hear discussion.
>
> Back in the day (Trek conventions in the 80’s run by Bjo Triimble),
> there were NO awards for being in the FFS–it was just a cool way to
> make another costume for the convention and be on stage a second time.
>
> –Karen
>
> _,_._,___

People seemed to LOVE the Single Pattern being combined with the Social, so that may be the solution to the confusion of mixing Single Pattern and FFS on Sunday.

I think Single Pattern is a really cool concept (thanks, Kevin!), and want to make sure it stays in the mix at CC.

–Karen

—– Original Message —–
From: Kevin Roche, Costume-Con 26 Chair
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 6:03 PM
Subject: Re: [runacc] Future Fashion Show Awards

I agree 100%! I love the less-a-contest aspect of the FFS.

I think my pesky Single Pattern Competition helped muddy the waters
because it does have more awards, and then the pieces were put often on
the same runway as the Future Fashion Show pieces.

Waxing pedantic: considering this from a presentation/informatics point
of view: the audience isn’t necessarily going to care/process the
information that they were seeing the end results of two different
competition/construction processes ending up on one stage; they’re just
going to hear a bunch of awards at the Fashion Show unless the script
really explains it in words of small syllables. (That’s not intended as
a slam; the show engages our visual/spacial thought processes while
really considering the rules, etc engages the literal/math processes.
It’s hard to slam back and forth between them when you are in the
audience receiving the information).

(I’ve learned a lot more about this since kicking off the SPC at CC12 as
I’ve done more public speaking/science presentations, especially
comparing the general audience talks that I do with the usually ghastly
technical presentations I have to sit through. I’d never made the
award/contest confusion connection in my head before!)

Kevin

Ricky & Karen Dick wrote:
>
>
> I think Fashion Show awards should be minimal.
>
> Like you said– Best as executed by Designer and Best as executed by
> Non-Designer.
>
> The real competition was the design contest, and getting into the
> folio, so the participants are already making up designs that have won
> something.
>
> Think of the FFS as a showcase, and fun, vs. OMG another competition.
>
> But I can see where some will not want to put forth the time and
> effort unless there are multiple awards involved.
>
> If somebody has a better model, let’s hear discussion.
>
> Back in the day (Trek conventions in the 80’s run by Bjo Triimble),
> there were NO awards for being in the FFS–it was just a cool way to
> make another costume for the convention and be on stage a second time.
>
> –Karen
>
> _,_._,___

——————————————————————————

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG – www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.287 / Virus Database: 270.12.23/2106 – Release Date: 05/09/09 06:54:00

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Karen Wrote:

People seemed to LOVE the Single Pattern being combined with the Social,
****Thanks. If always loves single pattern, just hated the perception that it was hurting the fashion show, So the thought of picking patterns that could, if people wanted, be made up into our theme, and done at the social, seemed worth a try, and something that had a very small chance of failure
I must admit that I did it fir two reasons.
1st to see if the fashion show would be in good shape without it
2nd, to give a bit of focus for people to make something new for friday night.

I did originally think it would be DURING the actual social, and that at some point, folks would walk a stage/platform, something, like we did in
des moines for people simply showing off their movie based costumes.

While i never expected it to turn into a fourth masquerade ( almost)

when we asked Ann and Ric to Run it, we gave them a wide berth, as we did ALL our committee heads, and my thought is that they felt it deserved a little more attention, than I originally did.
And I think Marty and I were right in letting them do as they pleased, it was a nice way to start the weekend, and I believe there were more entries in
single pattern than either the historical or the fashion show. Hey, apples and oranges there in some ways, so not fair to compare, but I think there was 31 single patterns, so, yup, they deserved the extra effort that Ric and Ann gave them.

the only complaint was sound. easily fixed next time.
Ricky

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

It definitely seemed like separating the SP from the Fashion Show was a good
idea. I like the idea of it being part of the Social. The problem with the
SP this time was a number of people were not aware of it going on. Also,
the show was not officially covered by video.

But that is another discussion. I would like to return to my original
question for more discussion, re: multiple awards in the FFS.

I thought of two additional problems:

First, I would be insulted if someone “re-imagined” my design because they
didn’t like something about it, changed it so it only partially looked like
my sketch, and yet got an award for it.

Second, I would think that multiple awards would necessitate the imposition
of the Skills Divisions to make it more fair for the novice sewers vs.
people who’ve been doing these for a very long time.

Bruce

> —–Original Message—–
> From: runacc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:runacc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> Gravely MacCabre
> Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 6:44 PM
> To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [runacc] Future Fashion Show Awards/singlepattern
>
>
>
>
>
> Karen Wrote:
>
> People seemed to LOVE the Single Pattern being combined with the Social,
> ****Thanks. If always loves single pattern, just hated the perception that

it was

> hurting the fashion show, So the thought of picking patterns that could,

if people

> wanted, be made up into our theme, and done at the social, seemed worth a

try,

> and something that had a very small chance of failure
> I must admit that I did it fir two reasons.
> 1st to see if the fashion show would be in good shape without it
> 2nd, to give a bit of focus for people to make something new for friday

night.

>
> I did originally think it would be DURING the actual social, and that at

some point,

> folks would walk a stage/platform, something, like we did in
> des moines for people simply showing off their movie based costumes.
>
> While i never expected it to turn into a fourth masquerade ( almost)
>
> when we asked Ann and Ric to Run it, we gave them a wide berth, as we did

ALL

> our committee heads, and my thought is that they felt it deserved a little

more

> attention, than I originally did.
> And I think Marty and I were right in letting them do as they pleased, it

was a nice

> way to start the weekend, and I believe there were more entries in
> single pattern than either the historical or the fashion show. Hey, apples

and oranges

> there in some ways, so not fair to compare, but I think there was 31

single patterns,

> so, yup, they deserved the extra effort that Ric and Ann gave them.
>
> the only complaint was sound. easily fixed next time.
> Ricky

Bruce,’

sorry for the topic highjack.

awards,
I think the basic 2 is fine, I am also cool with a BIS and a BIS workmanship.

I still chuckle at the silliness of me getting a workmanship award at cc-9 for the 4=5 sequin appliqué stars I made for Patty Gills American Flag dress for her.
nice to be appreciated and thanks, but sorta un unnecessary

so is this something we are trying to get a leadership council type feel for, and then hope fashion show directors might take advice?

I don’t know who is running the show for 28, but Jill Eastlake is for 29 I believe

so how do they learn what the council elders ( not taking that seriously, very tongue and cheek) think is best.
and how do we back off from the excellence deserves reward that so many of us have been singing for so long, in this one instance, or do you want it put into the cc constitution, which would not take effect till cc-31.

just wondering where the discussion leads us.

Gravely MacCabre
http://www.castleblood.com
http://www.midnightmonsterhop.com
http://www.myspace.com/thecastleblood
http://www.myspace.com/midnightmonsterhop
clip samples at
http://www.veoh.com/channels/castleblood

________________________________
From: Bruce & Nora Mai <casamai@sbcglobal.net>
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2009 8:15:45 PM
Subject: RE: [runacc] Future Fashion Show Awards/singlepattern

It definitely seemed like separating the SP from the Fashion Show was a good
idea. I like the idea of it being part of the Social. The problem with the
SP this time was a number of people were not aware of it going on. Also,
the show was not officially covered by video.

But that is another discussion. I would like to return to my original
question for more discussion, re: multiple awards in the FFS.

I thought of two additional problems:

First, I would be insulted if someone “re-imagined” my design because they
didn’t like something about it, changed it so it only partially looked like
my sketch, and yet got an award for it.

Second, I would think that multiple awards would necessitate the imposition
of the Skills Divisions to make it more fair for the novice sewers vs.
people who’ve been doing these for a very long time.

Bruce

> —–Original Message—–
> From: runacc@yahoogroups. com [mailto:runacc@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of
> Gravely MacCabre
> Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 6:44 PM
> To: runacc@yahoogroups. com
> Subject: Re: [runacc] Future Fashion Show Awards/singlepatter n
>
>
>
>
>
> Karen Wrote:
>
> People seemed to LOVE the Single Pattern being combined with the Social,
> ****Thanks. If always loves single pattern, just hated the perception that

it was

> hurting the fashion show, So the thought of picking patterns that could,

if people

> wanted, be made up into our theme, and done at the social, seemed worth a

try,

> and something that had a very small chance of failure
> I must admit that I did it fir two reasons.
> 1st to see if the fashion show would be in good shape without it
> 2nd, to give a bit of focus for people to make something new for friday

night.

>
> I did originally think it would be DURING the actual social, and that at

some point,

> folks would walk a stage/platform, something, like we did in
> des moines for people simply showing off their movie based costumes.
>
> While i never expected it to turn into a fourth masquerade ( almost)
>
> when we asked Ann and Ric to Run it, we gave them a wide berth, as we did

ALL

> our committee heads, and my thought is that they felt it deserved a little

more

> attention, than I originally did.
> And I think Marty and I were right in letting them do as they pleased, it

was a nice

> way to start the weekend, and I believe there were more entries in
> single pattern than either the historical or the fashion show. Hey, apples

and oranges

> there in some ways, so not fair to compare, but I think there was 31

single patterns,

> so, yup, they deserved the extra effort that Ric and Ann gave them.
>
> the only complaint was sound. easily fixed next time.
> Ricky

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I think Eric Cannon video’d it so there is some hope.
if it is to be a separate thing, some amount of regular Masq tech needs to be part of it.

it would be nice if the main stage was set, and the ball room was used for the social, but I’m sure from hotel to hotel, there are many ways around this.

first time out, not to bad, next time some one tries it, they’ll be in good shape.
PLUS, it all depends on what patterns are picked, and how generic they can be made.

Folks likeJacqui will always go off chart somewhere great, but most people want something relatively easy they can do some cool embellishment on.

Gravely MacCabre
http://www.castleblood.com
http://www.midnightmonsterhop.com
http://www.myspace.com/thecastleblood
http://www.myspace.com/midnightmonsterhop
clip samples at
http://www.veoh.com/channels/castleblood

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have to admit I liked the idea of it being done like a cafe fashion
show… with the pieces being presented in the social while folks were
there, with a route between the tables and a platform or two for focus.

If you could have fixed lighting instruments to highlight those (small)
risers, it could be a very effective and intimate way to both show off
the Single Pattern entries and encourage social mixing.

Kevin

Gravely MacCabre wrote:

>
>
> I think Eric Cannon video’d it so there is some hope.
> if it is to be a separate thing, some amount of regular Masq tech
> needs to be part of it.
>
> it would be nice if the main stage was set, and the ball room was used
> for the social, but I’m sure from hotel to hotel, there are many ways
> around this.
>

Kevin,
I agree,intimate, fun, and a different viewpoint than just another stage event.

My only concern is with the way we MIGHT have done that, would people actually shut up during the social to do it, so to give the entrants a bit of respect.
just comes to mind, in the face of Thomas Atkinson haveing trouble even getting 25 year cc vets to pipe down while he was trying to run some contest things at the social. most people didn’t care.

Gravely MacCabre
http://www.castleblood.com
http://www.midnightmonsterhop.com
http://www.myspace.com/thecastleblood
http://www.myspace.com/midnightmonsterhop
clip samples at
http://www.veoh.com/channels/castleblood

________________________________
From: “Kevin Roche, Costume-Con 26 Chair” <chair@cc26.org>
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2009 9:03:33 PM
Subject: Re: [runacc] single pattern

I have to admit I liked the idea of it being done like a cafe fashion
show… with the pieces being presented in the social while folks were
there, with a route between the tables and a platform or two for focus.

If you could have fixed lighting instruments to highlight those (small)
risers, it could be a very effective and intimate way to both show off
the Single Pattern entries and encourage social mixing.

Kevin

Gravely MacCabre wrote:

>
>
> I think Eric Cannon video’d it so there is some hope.
> if it is to be a separate thing, some amount of regular Masq tech
> needs to be part of it.
>
> it would be nice if the main stage was set, and the ball room was used
> for the social, but I’m sure from hotel to hotel, there are many ways
> around this.
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Probably sticking my foot in where it doesn’t belong, but I trust y’all can
understand I’m arguing devil’s advocate, not trying to be mean or mad at
someone.

I’d just like to clarify why we think the FFS shouldn’t have many awards.
Is it because it’s not a contest where we just want to have fun? Then yes,
it should be awardless, or few awards. Or is it because things that are
already designed just aren’t as good as things designed by the maker? I
think conversation has been skirting this without actually saying it, so I
thought I’d bring it into the open. Even while obeying the picture and the
description 100% people can vary wildly in their choices within that frame.
Is that somehow less deserving of recognition than something designed and
made by the same person?

~Aurora

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

aurora asks about perceptions about designer made vs non designer.

for me, that’s never a problem. okay sure, over the years I’ve seen a few things that were chosen that didn’t live up to the drawing, but I thought that was the whole fun of it, to see what other people design, and how you can figure out what they intended.

so surely I can’t answer for all, but to be honest, I always thought the opposite, it was EASIER for the designer to get it right,lso kudos belonged to the non designer even more.
in fact, I know of a few times ( names withheld) that the costume has already been made BEFORE the design was sent in to the folio contest.

Ricky

________________________________
From: Aurora Celeste <auroraceleste@gmail.com>
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2009 10:19:13 PM
Subject: Re: [runacc] Future Fashion Show Awards/singlepattern

Probably sticking my foot in where it doesn’t belong, but I trust y’all can
understand I’m arguing devil’s advocate, not trying to be mean or mad at
someone.

I’d just like to clarify why we think the FFS shouldn’t have many awards.
Is it because it’s not a contest where we just want to have fun? Then yes,
it should be awardless, or few awards. Or is it because things that are
already designed just aren’t as good as things designed by the maker? I
think conversation has been skirting this without actually saying it, so I
thought I’d bring it into the open. Even while obeying the picture and the
description 100% people can vary wildly in their choices within that frame.
Is that somehow less deserving of recognition than something designed and
made by the same person?

~Aurora

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Or just a pre-defined open area of the Social.

I really liked the SP on Friday night but definitely feel it would be nice to have it included in the Social somehow.

And the reason people wouldn’t quiet down for the contests at the Social is that no one knew they were going on, for most of us it just seemed to be a lot of disorganized shouting. It took awhile to catch on that there was some sort of “planned” activity.

Maybe it should have been announced? Or did we miss that because we were in the other room during the SP event?

Nora

— In runacc@yahoogroups.com, Gravely MacCabre <gravelymac@…> wrote:
> Kevin,
> I agree,intimate, fun, and a different viewpoint than just another stage event.
>
> My only concern is with the way we MIGHT have done that, would people actually shut up during the social to do it, so to give the entrants a bit of respect.
> just comes to mind, in the face of Thomas Atkinson haveing trouble even getting 25 year cc vets to pipe down while he was trying to run some contest things at the social. most people didn’t care.
> ________________________________
> From: “Kevin Roche, Costume-Con 26 Chair” <chair@…>
> To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2009 9:03:33 PM
> Subject: Re: [runacc] single pattern
> I have to admit I liked the idea of it being done like a cafe fashion
> show… with the pieces being presented in the social while folks were
> there, with a route between the tables and a platform or two for focus.
>
> If you could have fixed lighting instruments to highlight those (small)
> risers, it could be a very effective and intimate way to both show off
> the Single Pattern entries and encourage social mixing.

Good question, Aurora.
I agree with Ricky that part of the fun is seeing what people do with your designs but the designs aren’t meant as a starting point for the Fashion Show – they’re the goal; how close can I get to the Designer’s intent?

Of course there are always variations but the designs aren’t meant as suggestions. The point isn’t Designer vs Non-Designer, it’s how close can you get to the design.

Nora

— In runacc@yahoogroups.com, Gravely MacCabre <gravelymac@…> wrote:
>
> aurora asks about perceptions about designer made vs non designer.
>
> for me, that’s never a problem. okay sure, over the years I’ve seen a few things that were chosen that didn’t live up to the drawing, but I thought that was the whole fun of it, to see what other people design, and how you can figure out what they intended.
>
> so surely I can’t answer for all, but to be honest, I always thought the opposite, it was EASIER for the designer to get it right,lso kudos belonged to the non designer even more.
> in fact, I know of a few times ( names withheld) that the costume has already been made BEFORE the design was sent in to the folio contest.
>
> Ricky
> ________________________________
> From: Aurora Celeste <auroraceleste@…>
> To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2009 10:19:13 PM
> Subject: Re: [runacc] Future Fashion Show Awards/singlepattern
>
> Probably sticking my foot in where it doesn’t belong, but I trust y’all can
> understand I’m arguing devil’s advocate, not trying to be mean or mad at
> someone.
>
> I’d just like to clarify why we think the FFS shouldn’t have many awards.
> Is it because it’s not a contest where we just want to have fun? Then yes,
> it should be awardless, or few awards. Or is it because things that are
> already designed just aren’t as good as things designed by the maker? I
> think conversation has been skirting this without actually saying it, so I
> thought I’d bring it into the open. Even while obeying the picture and the
> description 100% people can vary wildly in their choices within that frame.
> Is that somehow less deserving of recognition than something designed and
> made by the same person?
>
> ~Aurora

It also doesn’t help one bit that the acoustics of the atrium suck. Ok,
so they’re not so bad when you’re singing the Hallelujah Chorus, but
that’s generally 30 people or more singing the same thing, intending to
bounce the sound off the ceiling. For someone with a hearing problem
(*waves*) most of what was said on microphone was completely
incomprehensible unless you were within 20 feet of the amplifier.

I was also wondering from a photography standpoint who was taking
official photos of the SP contest. Were there any?

Regarding the awards, I don’t think turning the event into an
award-laden thing will matter as much. People like to get strokes, and
that’s what the awards are about. If a few more than just Best by
Designer and Non-Designer are awarded, I don’t see a lot of harm.

Was there griping? I didn’t hear any, but then I’ve got faulty hearing
and I was a little distracted at the con…

-b

von_drago wrote:

> Or just a pre-defined open area of the Social.
>
> I really liked the SP on Friday night but definitely feel it would be
> nice to have it included in the Social somehow.
>
> And the reason people wouldn’t quiet down for the contests at the Social
> is that no one knew they were going on, for most of us it just seemed to
> be a lot of disorganized shouting. It took awhile to catch on that there
> was some sort of “planned” activity.
>
> Maybe it should have been announced? Or did we miss that because we were
> in the other room during the SP event?
>
> Nora

—
—
Betsy Marks Delaney

http://www.hawkeswood.com/

Nora,
I think it just suffered from no central place of authority. so hard to get attention.
We made a great hang out and chat space, and then wanted a central focus, well, that wasn’t as easy as we thought.

if it was all one event, and in one place, you’re right, easier to get a handle on it all

Gravely MacCabre
http://www.castleblood.com
http://www.midnightmonsterhop.com
http://www.myspace.com/thecastleblood
http://www.myspace.com/midnightmonsterhop
clip samples at
http://www.veoh.com/channels/castleblood

________________________________
From: von_drago <von_drago@yahoo.com>
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2009 11:34:13 PM
Subject: [runacc] Re: single pattern & Social

Or just a pre-defined open area of the Social.

I really liked the SP on Friday night but definitely feel it would be nice to have it included in the Social somehow.

And the reason people wouldn’t quiet down for the contests at the Social is that no one knew they were going on, for most of us it just seemed to be a lot of disorganized shouting. It took awhile to catch on that there was some sort of “planned” activity.

Maybe it should have been announced? Or did we miss that because we were in the other room during the SP event?

Nora

— In runacc@yahoogroups. com, Gravely MacCabre <gravelymac@ …> wrote:
> Kevin,
> I agree,intimate, fun, and a different viewpoint than just another stage event.
>
> My only concern is with the way we MIGHT have done that, would people actually shut up during the social to do it, so to give the entrants a bit of respect.
> just comes to mind, in the face of Thomas Atkinson haveing trouble even getting 25 year cc vets to pipe down while he was trying to run some contest things at the social. most people didn’t care.
> ____________ _________ _________ __
> From: “Kevin Roche, Costume-Con 26 Chair” <chair@…>
> To: runacc@yahoogroups. com
> Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2009 9:03:33 PM
> Subject: Re: [runacc] single pattern
> I have to admit I liked the idea of it being done like a cafe fashion
> show… with the pieces being presented in the social while folks were
> there, with a route between the tables and a platform or two for focus.
>
> If you could have fixed lighting instruments to highlight those (small)
> risers, it could be a very effective and intimate way to both show off
> the Single Pattern entries and encourage social mixing.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

This is one of the few disadvantages of having CC move to different
venues each year. [And NO! I am not volunteering for anything right
now.] Now were we to be having Costume Con in the same hotel next year,
we could easily plan to do the Single Pattern Contest in the front of
the atrium as a part of the Social with the platforms and some lights
set up against the wall by the Dulaney Room. It would only involve
slight re-arranging of the furniture. But I’m certain that Henry’s hotel
is laid out completely differently, and his committee probably has a
completely different set of ideas as to how things can or should be
run. But I agree with the sentiment that I’d like to see the Single
Pattern contest integrated with the Friday night social.

^M^

Kevin Roche, Costume-Con 26 Chair wrote:

>
>
> I have to admit I liked the idea of it being done like a cafe fashion
> show… with the pieces being presented in the social while folks were
> there, with a route between the tables and a platform or two for focus.
>
> If you could have fixed lighting instruments to highlight those (small)
> risers, it could be a very effective and intimate way to both show off
> the Single Pattern entries and encourage social mixing.
>
> Kevin
>
> Gravely MacCabre wrote:
> >
> >
> > I think Eric Cannon video’d it so there is some hope.
> > if it is to be a separate thing, some amount of regular Masq tech
> > needs to be part of it.
> >
> > it would be nice if the main stage was set, and the ball room was used
> > for the social, but I’m sure from hotel to hotel, there are many ways
> > around this.
> >
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Speaking as a moderate number of years veteran, we couldn’t even hear what
Thom was saying across the room, and weren’t really interested. I think
people prefer to mingle, roaming from table to table, rather than stay in
one place. The social for CC22 worked well because the theme incorporated
a peri-oid band and people mingled just as they would at a speakeasy.

The theme for CC16 worked well because rather than costumes per se, people
were taking on prom stereotypes. Glen Boetcher’s janitor announcing he had
arrived to clean up the vomit was priceless. And Stephen and Marian Clark’s
sleazy salesman and aging cheerleader were absolutely frightening.
Entertainment at a Social that restricts people’s movement (by feeling they
have to at least be polite and pay some attention to what’s going on) will
never be as successful as a mixer environment. We’re dealing with short
attention spans.

I wasn’t getting the whole silly awards thing that was going on, and (oddly)
the awards tended to go more towards women – there was only one “villain”.

Bruce

—–Original Message—–

> From: runacc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:runacc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> Gravely MacCabre
> Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 8:18 PM
> To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [runacc] single pattern
>
> Kevin,
> I agree,intimate, fun, and a different viewpoint than just another stage

event.

>
> My only concern is with the way we MIGHT have done that, would people

actually

> shut up during the social to do it, so to give the entrants a bit of

respect.

> just comes to mind, in the face of Thomas Atkinson haveing trouble even

getting 25

> year cc vets to pipe down while he was trying to run some contest things

at the

> social. most people didn’t care.
>
> Gravely MacCabre
> http://www.castleblood.com
> http://www.midnightmonsterhop.com
> http://www.myspace.com/thecastleblood
> http://www.myspace.com/midnightmonsterhop
> clip samples at
> http://www.veoh.com/channels/castleblood
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: “Kevin Roche, Costume-Con 26 Chair” <chair@cc26.org>
> To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2009 9:03:33 PM
> Subject: Re: [runacc] single pattern
>
>
>
>
>
> I have to admit I liked the idea of it being done like a cafe fashion
> show… with the pieces being presented in the social while folks were
> there, with a route between the tables and a platform or two for focus.
>
> If you could have fixed lighting instruments to highlight those (small)
> risers, it could be a very effective and intimate way to both show off
> the Single Pattern entries and encourage social mixing.
>
> Kevin
>
> Gravely MacCabre wrote:
> >
> >
> > I think Eric Cannon video’d it so there is some hope.
> > if it is to be a separate thing, some amount of regular Masq tech
> > needs to be part of it.
> >
> > it would be nice if the main stage was set, and the ball room was used
> > for the social, but I’m sure from hotel to hotel, there are many ways
> > around this.
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ————————————
>
> View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/Yahoo!

Groups

> Links
>
>
>

I agree with the designer vs. non-designer thing up to a point. But if
your award is “close, but no cigar”, well, it incongruent to me.

Submitting a design when the thing is already made up seems like
“sand-bagging” to me. Also, there’s the type who believe only they can do
their design correctly, therefore they will submit only one design and then
reserve it for themselves.

????????

In my opinion, if you can’t communicate your vision so that someone in the
Show whomp it up, then maybe you’re not that good a designer.

Bruce

> —–Original Message—–
> From: runacc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:runacc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> Gravely MacCabre
> Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 10:20 PM
> To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [runacc] Future Fashion Show Awards/singlepattern
>
> aurora asks about perceptions about designer made vs non designer.
>
> for me, that’s never a problem. okay sure, over the years I’ve seen a few

things

> that were chosen that didn’t live up to the drawing, but I thought that

was the whole

> fun of it, to see what other people design, and how you can figure out

what they

> intended.
>
> so surely I can’t answer for all, but to be honest, I always thought the

opposite, it

> was EASIER for the designer to get it right,lso kudos belonged to the non

designer

> even more.
> in fact, I know of a few times ( names withheld) that the costume has

already been

> made BEFORE the design was sent in to the folio contest.
>
> Ricky
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Aurora Celeste <auroraceleste@gmail.com>
> To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2009 10:19:13 PM
> Subject: Re: [runacc] Future Fashion Show Awards/singlepattern
>
>
>
>
>
> Probably sticking my foot in where it doesn’t belong, but I trust y’all

can

> understand I’m arguing devil’s advocate, not trying to be mean or mad at
> someone.
>
> I’d just like to clarify why we think the FFS shouldn’t have many awards.
> Is it because it’s not a contest where we just want to have fun? Then

yes,

> it should be awardless, or few awards. Or is it because things that are
> already designed just aren’t as good as things designed by the maker? I
> think conversation has been skirting this without actually saying it, so I
> thought I’d bring it into the open. Even while obeying the picture and

the

> description 100% people can vary wildly in their choices within that

frame.

> Is that somehow less deserving of recognition than something designed and
> made by the same person?
>
> ~Aurora
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ————————————
>
> View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/Yahoo!

Groups

> Links
>
>
>

No – there wasn’t any griping by contestants – it was by some judges at a
previous CC.

Again – where do you draw the line, though? How many is a “few”? The
nameless judge I initially referred to would have given recognition to at
least half of the participants for at least *something*. I certainly want
to encourage people’s efforts but don’t make it meaningless, is all I’m
saying.

If you just state upfront, as it has been in the past, that there are only 2
awards (or whatever), most people are fine with it.

Bruce

> —–Original Message—–
> From: runacc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:runacc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> Betsy Delaney
> Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 10:44 PM
> To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [runacc] Re: single pattern & Social
>
>
> Regarding the awards, I don’t think turning the event into an
> award-laden thing will matter as much. People like to get strokes, and
> that’s what the awards are about. If a few more than just Best by
> Designer and Non-Designer are awarded, I don’t see a lot of harm.
>
> Was there griping? I didn’t hear any, but then I’ve got faulty hearing
> and I was a little distracted at the con…
>

I guess that’s what I’m running past the “tribal elders”, but I’m also
curious to see how “Mom” feels about it – which she’s already expressed her
opinion about. While I think experimentation is a good thing, there’s
always someone who goes to far and things get out of hand. For some
reason, I’m concerned tat the Fashion Show would break down into a T-Ball
League situation where everyone would get a trophy for participating (come
to think of it – everyone did get a certificate for participating.
Hmmmm….). Maybe I’m wrong – most of the CC masquerades have not fallen
into that trap, but there was one or two that got awfully close.

Maybe I’m out of line here. While you make a valid point about the whole
recognition system being somewhat contradicted by the Fashion Show, I think
there’s validity to having something different from all the others. Without
trying to repeat myself too much, is recognizing someone’s workmanship –
even if they weren’t the most accurate at interpreting a design – defeating
the purpose of the what the Show is about? If someone does a so-so job at
the look of a coat, for instance — but they hand-beaded the crystal drops
that dangle from the sleeves — do they deserve an award? Or does one say,
“Wow, they went to a lot of trouble to do that hand-beading – too bad they
didn’t put as much into the rest of the coat”? Am I making sense?

Bruce

> —–Original Message—–
> From: runacc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:runacc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> Gravely MacCabre
> Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 7:41 PM
> To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [runacc] Future Fashion Show Awards/singlepattern
>
>
> so is this something we are trying to get a leadership council type feel

for, and then

> hope fashion show directors might take advice?
>
> I don’t know who is running the show for 28, but Jill Eastlake is for 29 I

believe

>
> so how do they learn what the council elders ( not taking that seriously,

very tongue

> and cheek) think is best.
> and how do we back off from the excellence deserves reward that so many of

us

> have been singing for so long, in this one instance, or do you want it put

into the cc

> constitution, which would not take effect till cc-31.
>
> just wondering where the discussion leads us.
>
> Gravely MacCabre

I agree with Karen, with the addition of a Best Workmanship
award. Maybe you weren’t able to get everything absolutely exact to
the design, but if the design called for large amounts of (handwork,
embroidery (hand or machine), any other specialized craft, pick one)
and it was executed flawlessly, I can see a Workmanship award being
given. It should be optional, while the Designer/Non-Designer ones
should be given always.

Note – having made up many of our own designs, sometimes it’s not so
easy to create for real what you draw….

Sandy

At 04:35 PM 5/9/2009, you wrote:

>I think Fashion Show awards should be minimal.
>
>Like you said– Best as executed by Designer and Best as executed by
>Non-Designer.
>
>The real competition was the design contest, and getting into the
>folio, so the participants are already making up designs that have
>won something.
>
>Think of the FFS as a showcase, and fun, vs. OMG another competition.
>
>But I can see where some will not want to put forth the time and
>effort unless there are multiple awards involved.
>
>If somebody has a better model, let’s hear discussion.
>
>Back in the day (Trek conventions in the 80’s run by Bjo Triimble),
>there were NO awards for being in the FFS–it was just a cool way to
>make another costume for the convention and be on stage a second time.
>
>–Karen
>
>—– Original Message —–
>From: Bruce & Nora Mai
>To: <mailto:runacc%40yahoogroups.com>runacc@yahoogroups.com
>Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 1:24 PM
>Subject: [runacc] Future Fashion Show Awards
>
>Our (meaning the Costume-Con community) philosophy is “Excellence Deserves
>Recognition”. This applies to everything except for the Future Fashion Show
>- there’s usually only the “Most accurate to Self” and “Most Accurate – not
>by the Designer”. Nora and I are more traditionalists on this, and while
>we don’t object to a couple of other awards, we think things should stay
>essentially as they are. At least one of our people has said if she was
>ever in a position to judge for the FFS again, she essentially said she
>would ignore the standard model and give out as many awards to people she
>believed deserved them.
>
>Our general thinking is:
>
>The FFS is not a competition in the same sense as a masquerade. But I think
>some folks look at it that way.
>
>The competition was the Folio. The challenge at the Show is for people to
>reproduce the designs as faithfully as possible – not to take someone’s
>design and use it as a jumping off point.
>Bruce

“Those Who Fail to Learn History
Are Doomed to Repeat It;
Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly –
Why They Are Simply Doomed.”

Achemdro’hm
“The Illusion of Historical Fact”
— C. Y. 4971

Andromeda

SP: not announced; I found out it had moved by accident.
Steward took photos.

FFS: Regarding instituting the division system – well,
yeah. The lack of divisions may eventually become the
sticking point. Why participate when you know you have no
chance of winning? People take the Folio Show very
seriously, and work hard to bring the designer’s creation
to life – but for what?

Trying to get the designer’s vision right seems to me to
be much more difficult than tweaking a provided pattern
(i.e. SP); you’re starting from scratch, from nothing but
a drawing (which may or may not be good, depending on the
talent of the designer) and a description. It requires
more skill.

I believe in fewer awards in SP and more in FFS.

Karen (not the momma)

On Sat, 9 May 2009 19:15:45 -0500
“Bruce & Nora Mai” <casamai@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> It definitely seemed like separating the SP from the
>Fashion Show was a good
> idea. I like the idea of it being part of the Social.
> The problem with the
> SP this time was a number of people were not aware of it
>going on. Also,
> the show was not officially covered by video.
>
> But that is another discussion. I would like to return
>to my original
> question for more discussion, re: multiple awards in the
>FFS.
>
> I thought of two additional problems:
>
>First, I would be insulted if someone “re-imagined” my
>design because they
> didn’t like something about it, changed it so it only
>partially looked like
> my sketch, and yet got an award for it.
>
> Second, I would think that multiple awards would
>necessitate the imposition
> of the Skills Divisions to make it more fair for the
>novice sewers vs.
> people who’ve been doing these for a very long time.
>
> Bruce
>
>> —–Original Message—–
>> From: runacc@yahoogroups.com
>>[mailto:runacc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
>> Gravely MacCabre
>> Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 6:44 PM
>> To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: Re: [runacc] Future Fashion Show
>>Awards/singlepattern
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Karen Wrote:
>>
>> People seemed to LOVE the Single Pattern being combined
>>with the Social,
>> ****Thanks. If always loves single pattern, just hated
>>the perception that
> it was
>> hurting the fashion show, So the thought of picking
>>patterns that could,
> if people
>> wanted, be made up into our theme, and done at the
>>social, seemed worth a
> try,
>> and something that had a very small chance of failure
>> I must admit that I did it fir two reasons.
>> 1st to see if the fashion show would be in good shape
>>without it
>> 2nd, to give a bit of focus for people to make something
>>new for friday
> night.
>>
>> I did originally think it would be DURING the actual
>>social, and that at
> some point,
>> folks would walk a stage/platform, something, like we
>>did in
>> des moines for people simply showing off their movie
>>based costumes.
>>
>> While i never expected it to turn into a fourth
>>masquerade ( almost)
>>
>> when we asked Ann and Ric to Run it, we gave them a wide
>>berth, as we did
> ALL
>> our committee heads, and my thought is that they felt it
>>deserved a little
> more
>> attention, than I originally did.
>> And I think Marty and I were right in letting them do as
>>they pleased, it
> was a nice
>> way to start the weekend, and I believe there were more
>>entries in
>> single pattern than either the historical or the fashion
>>show. Hey, apples
> and oranges
>> there in some ways, so not fair to compare, but I think
>>there was 31
> single patterns,
>> so, yup, they deserved the extra effort that Ric and Ann
>>gave them.
>>
>> the only complaint was sound. easily fixed next time.
>> Ricky
>

I asked Vicki Warren if Ken had been photographer for the SPC, and she said No, that as far as she knew no one had done photos. I saw Eric Cannon doing video next to the judges’ table also, so there is some record, at least.

Incidentally, if anyone took a candid of Byron’s & my SPC outfits, I’d be very happy to get a copy. Since we were in costume, we didn’t carry our camera and as a result missed out on getting photos of a lot of wonderful creations.

Tina

— In runacc@yahoogroups.com, Betsy Delaney <aramintamd@…> wrote:
>
> It also doesn’t help one bit that the acoustics of the atrium suck. Ok,
> so they’re not so bad when you’re singing the Hallelujah Chorus, but
> that’s generally 30 people or more singing the same thing, intending to
> bounce the sound off the ceiling. For someone with a hearing problem
> (*waves*) most of what was said on microphone was completely
> incomprehensible unless you were within 20 feet of the amplifier.
>
> I was also wondering from a photography standpoint who was taking
> official photos of the SP contest. Were there any?
>
> Regarding the awards, I don’t think turning the event into an
> award-laden thing will matter as much. People like to get strokes, and
> that’s what the awards are about. If a few more than just Best by
> Designer and Non-Designer are awarded, I don’t see a lot of harm.
>
> Was there griping? I didn’t hear any, but then I’ve got faulty hearing
> and I was a little distracted at the con…
>
> -b
>
> —
> Betsy Marks Delaney
>
> http://www.hawkeswood.com/
>

An argument could be made (not by me, just devil’s advocating here) that the division system should be used in the FFS & SP & Doll Contest & etc. because who wants to have to compete against Jacqui Ward if they don’t have to?

But that adds a whole new level of complication to events that were originally (I think) meant to just be additional fun things to fill out the weekend.

Thoughts?

Nora

We’ve attended quite a few Socials over the years, and quite frankly, there were several from which we fled within minutes because we were driven (forcibly) from the room by overly-amplified “music” (for which, read “noise”). Cons which hired a DJ for the event have been particularly prone to this; in general DJ’s seem to feel that they (or their musical selections) are the center of attention, and don’t grasp the concept that the music is a background accompaniment for people who want to socialize. As a result I’m sure that we missed seeing some wonderful costumes, but it’s hard to have fun if you’re being deafened in the process, or can’t hear or be heard by people with whom you want to converse. (I’ve had my hearing tested, being as how I’m getting up to a certain age now, and it tested out extrememly good, up to the dog-whistle range in one ear, so very loud music is actually physically painful to me.)

Socials have also sometimes been quite poorly lit, to create ambiance for the evening’s theme. This is nice as a creative concept, but is not at all conducive to seeing the costumes, or photographing them.

Tina

— In runacc@yahoogroups.com, “Bruce & Nora Mai” <casamai@…> wrote:
>
> Speaking as a moderate number of years veteran, we couldn’t even hear what
> Thom was saying across the room, and weren’t really interested. I think
> people prefer to mingle, roaming from table to table, rather than stay in
> one place. The social for CC22 worked well because the theme incorporated
> a peri-oid band and people mingled just as they would at a speakeasy.
>
> The theme for CC16 worked well because rather than costumes per se, people
> were taking on prom stereotypes. Glen Boetcher’s janitor announcing he had
> arrived to clean up the vomit was priceless. And Stephen and Marian Clark’s
> sleazy salesman and aging cheerleader were absolutely frightening.
> Entertainment at a Social that restricts people’s movement (by feeling they
> have to at least be polite and pay some attention to what’s going on) will
> never be as successful as a mixer environment. We’re dealing with short
> attention spans.
>
> I wasn’t getting the whole silly awards thing that was going on, and (oddly)
> the awards tended to go more towards women – there was only one “villain”.
>
> Bruce
>
>
>
> —–Original Message—–
> > From: runacc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:runacc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> > Gravely MacCabre
> > Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 8:18 PM
> > To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [runacc] single pattern
> >
> > Kevin,
> > I agree,intimate, fun, and a different viewpoint than just another stage
> event.
> >
> > My only concern is with the way we MIGHT have done that, would people
> actually
> > shut up during the social to do it, so to give the entrants a bit of
> respect.
> > just comes to mind, in the face of Thomas Atkinson haveing trouble even
> getting 25
> > year cc vets to pipe down while he was trying to run some contest things
> at the
> > social. most people didn’t care.
> >
> > Gravely MacCabre
> > http://www.castleblood.com
> > http://www.midnightmonsterhop.com
> > http://www.myspace.com/thecastleblood
> > http://www.myspace.com/midnightmonsterhop
> > clip samples at
> > http://www.veoh.com/channels/castleblood
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: “Kevin Roche, Costume-Con 26 Chair” <chair@…>
> > To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2009 9:03:33 PM
> > Subject: Re: [runacc] single pattern
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I have to admit I liked the idea of it being done like a cafe fashion
> > show… with the pieces being presented in the social while folks were
> > there, with a route between the tables and a platform or two for focus.
> >
> > If you could have fixed lighting instruments to highlight those (small)
> > risers, it could be a very effective and intimate way to both show off
> > the Single Pattern entries and encourage social mixing.
> >
> > Kevin
> >
> > Gravely MacCabre wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > I think Eric Cannon video’d it so there is some hope.
> > > if it is to be a separate thing, some amount of regular Masq tech
> > > needs to be part of it.
> > >
> > > it would be nice if the main stage was set, and the ball room was used
> > > for the social, but I’m sure from hotel to hotel, there are many ways
> > > around this.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > ————————————
> >
> > View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/Yahoo!
> Groups
> > Links
> >
> >
> >
>

Would more awards equal more participants? Would the promise of more possible recognition translate into people actually finishing their outfits or committing to one more readily therefore bumping up the FFS numbers?

I know of one person who reserved one of my designs who didn’t get it done therefore it wasn’t in the show. Another person said she was going to try but ended up not doing it because she didn’t have time.
Three seperate people asked me if they could do 3 different designs later since they hadn’t had time before the con.

That would have been 5 more outfits on stage had they been given more importance by their constructors & completed. Would giving more awards make it more important to them to finish the outfits?

Nora

— In runacc@yahoogroups.com, “Ricky & Karen Dick” <castleb@…> wrote:
> I think Fashion Show awards should be minimal.
>
> Like you said– Best as executed by Designer and Best as executed by Non-Designer.
>
> The real competition was the design contest, and getting into the folio, so the participants are already making up designs that have won something.
>
> Think of the FFS as a showcase, and fun, vs. OMG another competition.
>
> But I can see where some will not want to put forth the time and effort unless there are multiple awards involved.
>
> If somebody has a better model, let’s hear discussion.
>
> Back in the day (Trek conventions in the 80’s run by Bjo Triimble), there were NO awards for being in the FFS–it was just a cool way to make another costume for the convention and be on stage a second time.
>
> –Karen
>
> —– Original Message —–
> From: Bruce & Nora Mai
> To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 1:24 PM
> Subject: [runacc] Future Fashion Show Awards
>
>
>
>
>
> So, over on the SLUTs list, a bit of interesting discussion popped up that
> has been brought up before.
>
> Our (meaning the Costume-Con community) philosophy is “Excellence Deserves
> Recognition”. This applies to everything except for the Future Fashion Show
> – there’s usually only the “Most accurate to Self” and “Most Accurate – not
> by the Designer”. Nora and I are more traditionalists on this, and while
> we don’t object to a couple of other awards, we think things should stay
> essentially as they are. At least one of our people has said if she was
> ever in a position to judge for the FFS again, she essentially said she
> would ignore the standard model and give out as many awards to people she
> believed deserved them.
>
> Our general thinking is:
>
> The FFS is not a competition in the same sense as a masquerade. But I think
> some folks look at it that way.
>
> The competition was the Folio. The challenge at the Show is for people to
> reproduce the designs as faithfully as possible – not to take someone’s
> design and use it as a jumping off point. My perception is that the
> designer should be pleased with bringing their drawing to life as they
> visualized it. Rewarding anything that fell short but looks pretty
> seems…..I dunno….less than faithful to the intent of the show.
>
> The Fashion Show is more relaxed – much like the Single Pattern show.
> Making it more of a standard competition has the potential of ratcheting up
> the pressure.
>
> Frequently, the Folio has designs that are more costume than clothing – too
> many more awards might skew this further, I would think. Where do you draw
> the line, then? Would you have to adopt the 33% rule? Where do you draw
> the line? On the other extreme, there is a danger of the whole “give
> everyone an award that deserves it” more easily getting out of hand.
>
> I’d be interested in hearing what some of you – especially Karen D. – think.
>
> Bruce
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ——————————————————————————
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG – www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.287 / Virus Database: 270.12.23/2106 – Release Date: 05/09/09 06:54:00
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Adding my $0.02 cents.
I think for the times we are living in economy wise, we should be happy with the turn out of numbers that we had for all events, SP, FFS, SF&F, and Historical.
Money is tight across the board for just about everyone, and I think this needs to be factored in when seeing the numbers. Then there’s also the whole life getting in the way of our hobby that can cause folks to not get designs completed.

I was one of the folks who didn’t get the design I selected completed in time for the convention. Was it knowing that I would not get an award that stopped me from completing it? No, it was no money and having my life be really crazy busy at the moment. I had to chose my time between working on what could make me money vs. completing a costume that would cost me money that at the time I didn’t have. When the design was reserved in Dec my life was different and my financial status was also different.

Nora with your permission I’d still like to complete it and wear it as a hall costume at CC28.

I know I’ve been off the radar for a long time, and not sure how much, if any, of my opinion counts. For me I was delighted to see how many entries we had for all the events of the weekend.

Stephanie

—– Original Message —–
From: von_drago
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 10:41 AM
Subject: [runacc] Re: Future Fashion Show Awards

Would more awards equal more participants? Would the promise of more possible recognition translate into people actually finishing their outfits or committing to one more readily therefore bumping up the FFS numbers?

I know of one person who reserved one of my designs who didn’t get it done therefore it wasn’t in the show. Another person said she was going to try but ended up not doing it because she didn’t have time.
Three seperate people asked me if they could do 3 different designs later since they hadn’t had time before the con.

That would have been 5 more outfits on stage had they been given more importance by their constructors & completed. Would giving more awards make it more important to them to finish the outfits?

Nora
— In runacc@yahoogroups.com, “Ricky & Karen Dick” <castleb@…> wrote:
> I think Fashion Show awards should be minimal.
>
> Like you said– Best as executed by Designer and Best as executed by Non-Designer.
>
> The real competition was the design contest, and getting into the folio, so the participants are already making up designs that have won something.
>
> Think of the FFS as a showcase, and fun, vs. OMG another competition.
>
> But I can see where some will not want to put forth the time and effort unless there are multiple awards involved.
>
> If somebody has a better model, let’s hear discussion.
>
> Back in the day (Trek conventions in the 80’s run by Bjo Triimble), there were NO awards for being in the FFS–it was just a cool way to make another costume for the convention and be on stage a second time.
>
> –Karen
>
> —– Original Message —–
> From: Bruce & Nora Mai
> To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 1:24 PM
> Subject: [runacc] Future Fashion Show Awards
>
>
>
>
>
> So, over on the SLUTs list, a bit of interesting discussion popped up that
> has been brought up before.
>
> Our (meaning the Costume-Con community) philosophy is “Excellence Deserves
> Recognition”. This applies to everything except for the Future Fashion Show
> – there’s usually only the “Most accurate to Self” and “Most Accurate – not
> by the Designer”. Nora and I are more traditionalists on this, and while
> we don’t object to a couple of other awards, we think things should stay
> essentially as they are. At least one of our people has said if she was
> ever in a position to judge for the FFS again, she essentially said she
> would ignore the standard model and give out as many awards to people she
> believed deserved them.
>
> Our general thinking is:
>
> The FFS is not a competition in the same sense as a masquerade. But I think
> some folks look at it that way.
>
> The competition was the Folio. The challenge at the Show is for people to
> reproduce the designs as faithfully as possible – not to take someone’s
> design and use it as a jumping off point. My perception is that the
> designer should be pleased with bringing their drawing to life as they
> visualized it. Rewarding anything that fell short but looks pretty
> seems…..I dunno….less than faithful to the intent of the show.
>
> The Fashion Show is more relaxed – much like the Single Pattern show.
> Making it more of a standard competition has the potential of ratcheting up
> the pressure.
>
> Frequently, the Folio has designs that are more costume than clothing – too
> many more awards might skew this further, I would think. Where do you draw
> the line, then? Would you have to adopt the 33% rule? Where do you draw
> the line? On the other extreme, there is a danger of the whole “give
> everyone an award that deserves it” more easily getting out of hand.
>
> I’d be interested in hearing what some of you – especially Karen D. – think.
>
> Bruce
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ———————————————————-
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG – www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.287 / Virus Database: 270.12.23/2106 – Release Date: 05/09/09 06:54:00
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Nora, the FFS (or whatever combination of stuff has been the Sunday afternoon event) has very consistently been 7-8% of the membership of Costume-Con pretty much for its entire history.

Ricky says this one was a little low (5-6%), but we’ve had some that were high, too, and it all seems to balance out.

The FFS events I was in in the 1970’s had lots of people making things (like many of the shows were 40 or 50 people), but the convention attendance at those cons was HUGE–
5,000 to 10,000 people.

I don’t think giving more awards (or not) will change how many people participate. The FFS is difficult for some people because it often involves drafting your own patterns to get the look right. And not everyone has mad patterning skills. Single Pattern is more friendly in that regard because the patterning is largely taken out of the equation, although you may have to modify the pattern to fit right if you are a nonstandard body type.

As for the dropouts from the FFS…it happens. Every year. Sometimes, you get into building the thing that looked simple on paper, and discover that it isn’t easy at all. I was nearly defeated this year by what should have been the “easy” parts–a t-shirt and jeans. Other times, other stuff happens (heavier workload at the real life job, illness, etc.) and the outfit doesn’t get completed.

And sometimes, you have to make choices as to which thing you’re going to finish. I started this year having every intention of doing BOTH the FFS and Single Pattern. Bought fabric for both. Then had medical issues for two months and couldn’t sew because my concentration was so screwed up from having my meds switched on a weekly basis until they found the right one. Something had to go, and it ended up being Single Pattern. I still intend to make it, as I have the pattern and fabric, and I wanted to do some serious modification to the skirt in a way no one else did. So it will get done, and worn in the future as a hall costume at another CC, and at Castle Blood, as I’m doing it in Castle colors. Actually, I did have a day and a half open right before the con in which I could have attempted it (and would have if I was 20), but I figured it was probably a good idea not to stress myself that way.

As for giving all the participants certificates (not awards, but a thank-you for participation), there’s nothing wrong with that, especially when it is largely people other than the designers making the costumes, and awards are limited. At Costume-Con 6, we gave all FFS participants a certificate of participation and a 5×7 photo of the costume they modeled. Everyone seemed pleased with that.

–Karen

—– Original Message —–
From: von_drago
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 10:41 AM
Subject: [runacc] Re: Future Fashion Show Awards

Would more awards equal more participants? Would the promise of more possible recognition translate into people actually finishing their outfits or committing to one more readily therefore bumping up the FFS numbers?

I know of one person who reserved one of my designs who didn’t get it done therefore it wasn’t in the show. Another person said she was going to try but ended up not doing it because she didn’t have time.
Three seperate people asked me if they could do 3 different designs later since they hadn’t had time before the con.

That would have been 5 more outfits on stage had they been given more importance by their constructors & completed. Would giving more awards make it more important to them to finish the outfits?

Nora
— In runacc@yahoogroups.com, “Ricky & Karen Dick” <castleb@…> wrote:
> I think Fashion Show awards should be minimal.
>
> Like you said– Best as executed by Designer and Best as executed by Non-Designer.
>
> The real competition was the design contest, and getting into the folio, so the participants are already making up designs that have won something.
>
> Think of the FFS as a showcase, and fun, vs. OMG another competition.
>
> But I can see where some will not want to put forth the time and effort unless there are multiple awards involved.
>
> If somebody has a better model, let’s hear discussion.
>
> Back in the day (Trek conventions in the 80’s run by Bjo Triimble), there were NO awards for being in the FFS–it was just a cool way to make another costume for the convention and be on stage a second time.
>
> –Karen
>
> —– Original Message —–
> From: Bruce & Nora Mai
> To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 1:24 PM
> Subject: [runacc] Future Fashion Show Awards
>
>
>
>
>
> So, over on the SLUTs list, a bit of interesting discussion popped up that
> has been brought up before.
>
> Our (meaning the Costume-Con community) philosophy is “Excellence Deserves
> Recognition”. This applies to everything except for the Future Fashion Show
> – there’s usually only the “Most accurate to Self” and “Most Accurate – not
> by the Designer”. Nora and I are more traditionalists on this, and while
> we don’t object to a couple of other awards, we think things should stay
> essentially as they are. At least one of our people has said if she was
> ever in a position to judge for the FFS again, she essentially said she
> would ignore the standard model and give out as many awards to people she
> believed deserved them.
>
> Our general thinking is:
>
> The FFS is not a competition in the same sense as a masquerade. But I think
> some folks look at it that way.
>
> The competition was the Folio. The challenge at the Show is for people to
> reproduce the designs as faithfully as possible – not to take someone’s
> design and use it as a jumping off point. My perception is that the
> designer should be pleased with bringing their drawing to life as they
> visualized it. Rewarding anything that fell short but looks pretty
> seems…..I dunno….less than faithful to the intent of the show.
>
> The Fashion Show is more relaxed – much like the Single Pattern show.
> Making it more of a standard competition has the potential of ratcheting up
> the pressure.
>
> Frequently, the Folio has designs that are more costume than clothing – too
> many more awards might skew this further, I would think. Where do you draw
> the line, then? Would you have to adopt the 33% rule? Where do you draw
> the line? On the other extreme, there is a danger of the whole “give
> everyone an award that deserves it” more easily getting out of hand.
>
> I’d be interested in hearing what some of you – especially Karen D. – think.
>
> Bruce
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ———————————————————-
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG – www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.287 / Virus Database: 270.12.23/2106 – Release Date: 05/09/09 06:54:00
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

——————————————————————————

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG – www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.287 / Virus Database: 270.12.24/2107 – Release Date: 05/10/09 07:02:00

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

And see – while I agree this would have to happen, I think having to
introduce the Skills Divisions this would take the fun out of it for some
people.

I think it’s interesting to note Karen and Ricky say that FFS percentages
have stayed the same, on average, despite worries that the SP was taking
away from it. Still keeping them separate from now is a good solution.

Bruce

> —–Original Message—–
> From: runacc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:runacc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> Karen Heim
> Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 2:19 AM
> To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [runacc] Future Fashion Show Awards/singlepattern
>
>
> FFS: Regarding instituting the division system – well,
> yeah. The lack of divisions may eventually become the
> sticking point. Why participate when you know you have no
> chance of winning? People take the Folio Show very
> seriously, and work hard to bring the designer’s creation
> to life – but for what?
>
> Karen (not the momma)

At 12:21 AM 5/10/2009, you w

Sandy largely echoes my thoughts. I’m a proponent of three awards at
the FFS: Most Accurate by Designer, Most Accurate by Non-Designer and
Best Workmanship. The Latter could easily go to one of the two
formers. Any more and we are resembling a masquerade.

Re: the Single Pattern. I’ve always been a bit ambivalent about it. I
think its a great concept, but it always seemed to diminish the FFS
when it was held. That was why we did not have one at CC24.

However, I agree that moving it to Friday night was a brilliant idea
and worked well. To have it work during the actual social, as opposed
to just before, I think we do have to have good speakers in place and
tout it as an event to draw everyone’s attention during the duration.
Just having the entries move through the tables, even with a riser or
two isn’t sufficient. You don’t need a full blown stage, but an
obvious point of attention is required.

Pierre

“Those Who Fail to Learn History
Are Doomed to Repeat It;
Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly –
Why They Are Simply Doomed.”

Achemdro’hm
“The Illusion of Historical Fact”
— C. Y. 4971

Andromeda

I’m not actually advocating for change, I like minimal awards for both the FFS & SP. I think that keeps them more fun, less pressure.

But some folks seem to feel the FFS should have more awards. Is that a good or neccessary thing? What would having more awards actually accomplish? It might be a good thing if it would raise the number of participants but I think adding awards would also raise the expectations & stress levels.

And if we did add more awards (again, I’m not for that), shouldn’t they be consistent with the spirit of the Folio & only award achievement as regards re-creating the Designer’s “vision” rather than more general Masquerade-type awards?

I understand about the life or monetary problem interfering with getting something done, I’d ditch the FFS or SP first too. I’m just throwing out some things that crossed my mind.

And please do finish the outfit, I’d love to see it.

Nora

— In runacc@yahoogroups.com, “Stephanie Carrigg” <bada.boom@…> wrote:
>
> Adding my $0.02 cents.
> I think for the times we are living in economy wise, we should be happy with the turn out of numbers that we had for all events, SP, FFS, SF&F, and Historical.
> Money is tight across the board for just about everyone, and I think this needs to be factored in when seeing the numbers. Then there’s also the whole life getting in the way of our hobby that can cause folks to not get designs completed.
>
> I was one of the folks who didn’t get the design I selected completed in time for the convention. Was it knowing that I would not get an award that stopped me from completing it? No, it was no money and having my life be really crazy busy at the moment. I had to chose my time between working on what could make me money vs. completing a costume that would cost me money that at the time I didn’t have. When the design was reserved in Dec my life was different and my financial status was also different.
>
> Nora with your permission I’d still like to complete it and wear it as a hall costume at CC28.
>
> I know I’ve been off the radar for a long time, and not sure how much, if any, of my opinion counts. For me I was delighted to see how many entries we had for all the events of the weekend.
>
> Stephanie
>
> —– Original Message —–
> From: von_drago
> To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 10:41 AM
> Subject: [runacc] Re: Future Fashion Show Awards
>
>
>
>
>
> Would more awards equal more participants? Would the promise of more possible recognition translate into people actually finishing their outfits or committing to one more readily therefore bumping up the FFS numbers?
>
> I know of one person who reserved one of my designs who didn’t get it done therefore it wasn’t in the show. Another person said she was going to try but ended up not doing it because she didn’t have time.
> Three seperate people asked me if they could do 3 different designs later since they hadn’t had time before the con.
>
> That would have been 5 more outfits on stage had they been given more importance by their constructors & completed. Would giving more awards make it more important to them to finish the outfits?
>
> Nora
> — In runacc@yahoogroups.com, “Ricky & Karen Dick” <castleb@> wrote:
> > I think Fashion Show awards should be minimal.
> >
> > Like you said– Best as executed by Designer and Best as executed by Non-Designer.
> >
> > The real competition was the design contest, and getting into the folio, so the participants are already making up designs that have won something.
> >
> > Think of the FFS as a showcase, and fun, vs. OMG another competition.
> >
> > But I can see where some will not want to put forth the time and effort unless there are multiple awards involved.
> >
> > If somebody has a better model, let’s hear discussion.
> >
> > Back in the day (Trek conventions in the 80’s run by Bjo Triimble), there were NO awards for being in the FFS–it was just a cool way to make another costume for the convention and be on stage a second time.
> >
> > –Karen
> >
> > —– Original Message —–
> > From: Bruce & Nora Mai
> > To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 1:24 PM
> > Subject: [runacc] Future Fashion Show Awards
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > So, over on the SLUTs list, a bit of interesting discussion popped up that
> > has been brought up before.
> >
> > Our (meaning the Costume-Con community) philosophy is “Excellence Deserves
> > Recognition”. This applies to everything except for the Future Fashion Show
> > – there’s usually only the “Most accurate to Self” and “Most Accurate – not
> > by the Designer”. Nora and I are more traditionalists on this, and while
> > we don’t object to a couple of other awards, we think things should stay
> > essentially as they are. At least one of our people has said if she was
> > ever in a position to judge for the FFS again, she essentially said she
> > would ignore the standard model and give out as many awards to people she
> > believed deserved them.
> >
> > Our general thinking is:
> >
> > The FFS is not a competition in the same sense as a masquerade. But I think
> > some folks look at it that way.
> >
> > The competition was the Folio. The challenge at the Show is for people to
> > reproduce the designs as faithfully as possible – not to take someone’s
> > design and use it as a jumping off point. My perception is that the
> > designer should be pleased with bringing their drawing to life as they
> > visualized it. Rewarding anything that fell short but looks pretty
> > seems…..I dunno….less than faithful to the intent of the show.
> >
> > The Fashion Show is more relaxed – much like the Single Pattern show.
> > Making it more of a standard competition has the potential of ratcheting up
> > the pressure.
> >
> > Frequently, the Folio has designs that are more costume than clothing – too
> > many more awards might skew this further, I would think. Where do you draw
> > the line, then? Would you have to adopt the 33% rule? Where do you draw
> > the line? On the other extreme, there is a danger of the whole “give
> > everyone an award that deserves it” more easily getting out of hand.
> >
> > I’d be interested in hearing what some of you – especially Karen D. – think.
> >
> > Bruce
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ———————————————————-
> >
> >
> >
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG – www.avg.com
> > Version: 8.5.287 / Virus Database: 270.12.23/2106 – Release Date: 05/09/09 06:54:00
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Since the SP and FFS aren’t “real” competitions, like the F/SF and Historical, if a costumer gets crunched on time those two are obviously going to be the first to go.

I think some people take these more seriously than they are given credit for. Yes, it is still fun – in the way figuring out a 3D puzzle is fun. But it’s still art, it’s still being done at a level of excellence, and it doesn’t make sense to say, “Excellence deserves reward – except over here, where it doesn’t.”. It is inconsistent with our stated values.

We have thought that the Folio was the only competition, and the show was just a show. I don’t think that’s true. I think it’s 2 competitions: one for the designs, and one for the execution of the designs. In people’s minds, if you make a costume and parade on the stage, it’s a competition – they do not differentiate, and play the Sesame Street “one of these things is not like the others” game.

Karen

— In runacc@yahoogroups.com, “von_drago” <von_drago@…> wrote:
>
> Would more awards equal more participants? Would the promise of more possible recognition translate into people actually finishing their outfits or committing to one more readily therefore bumping up the FFS numbers?
>
> I know of one person who reserved one of my designs who didn’t get it done therefore it wasn’t in the show. Another person said she was going to try but ended up not doing it because she didn’t have time.
> Three seperate people asked me if they could do 3 different designs later since they hadn’t had time before the con.
>
> That would have been 5 more outfits on stage had they been given more importance by their constructors & completed. Would giving more awards make it more important to them to finish the outfits?
>
> Nora
> — In runacc@yahoogroups.com, “Ricky & Karen Dick” <castleb@> wrote:
> > I think Fashion Show awards should be minimal.
> >
> > Like you said– Best as executed by Designer and Best as executed by Non-Designer.
> >
> > The real competition was the design contest, and getting into the folio, so the participants are already making up designs that have won something.
> >
> > Think of the FFS as a showcase, and fun, vs. OMG another competition.
> >
> > But I can see where some will not want to put forth the time and effort unless there are multiple awards involved.
> >
> > If somebody has a better model, let’s hear discussion.
> >
> > Back in the day (Trek conventions in the 80’s run by Bjo Triimble), there were NO awards for being in the FFS–it was just a cool way to make another costume for the convention and be on stage a second time.
> >
> > –Karen
> >
> > —– Original Message —–
> > From: Bruce & Nora Mai
> > To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 1:24 PM
> > Subject: [runacc] Future Fashion Show Awards
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > So, over on the SLUTs list, a bit of interesting discussion popped up that
> > has been brought up before.
> >
> > Our (meaning the Costume-Con community) philosophy is “Excellence Deserves
> > Recognition”. This applies to everything except for the Future Fashion Show
> > – there’s usually only the “Most accurate to Self” and “Most Accurate – not
> > by the Designer”. Nora and I are more traditionalists on this, and while
> > we don’t object to a couple of other awards, we think things should stay
> > essentially as they are. At least one of our people has said if she was
> > ever in a position to judge for the FFS again, she essentially said she
> > would ignore the standard model and give out as many awards to people she
> > believed deserved them.
> >
> > Our general thinking is:
> >
> > The FFS is not a competition in the same sense as a masquerade. But I think
> > some folks look at it that way.
> >
> > The competition was the Folio. The challenge at the Show is for people to
> > reproduce the designs as faithfully as possible – not to take someone’s
> > design and use it as a jumping off point. My perception is that the
> > designer should be pleased with bringing their drawing to life as they
> > visualized it. Rewarding anything that fell short but looks pretty
> > seems…..I dunno….less than faithful to the intent of the show.
> >
> > The Fashion Show is more relaxed – much like the Single Pattern show.
> > Making it more of a standard competition has the potential of ratcheting up
> > the pressure.
> >
> > Frequently, the Folio has designs that are more costume than clothing – too
> > many more awards might skew this further, I would think. Where do you draw
> > the line, then? Would you have to adopt the 33% rule? Where do you draw
> > the line? On the other extreme, there is a danger of the whole “give
> > everyone an award that deserves it” more easily getting out of hand.
> >
> > I’d be interested in hearing what some of you – especially Karen D. – think.
> >
> > Bruce
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ——————————————————————————
> >
> >
> >
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG – www.avg.com
> > Version: 8.5.287 / Virus Database: 270.12.23/2106 – Release Date: 05/09/09 06:54:00
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

There are too many cases of entries in SF&F and Historical in which the costume was made to someone else’s design for that to be a significant factor. Pat Buard’s CC 27 Historical entry was made to a design by Christian Dior, for example.

I seem to recall from the di, dark past that the idea of minimizing awards at the FFS was to emphasize that it was a fashion show, not a competition. The only awards were “best interpretation of a design made by the designer” and “best interpretation of a design made by someone other than the designer.”

Byron

—– Original Message —–
From: Gravely MacCabre<mailto:gravelymac@yahoo.com>
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com<mailto:runacc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 11:19 PM
Subject: Re: [runacc] Future Fashion Show Awards/singlepattern

aurora asks about perceptions about designer made vs non designer.

for me, that’s never a problem. okay sure, over the years I’ve seen a few things that were chosen that didn’t live up to the drawing, but I thought that was the whole fun of it, to see what other people design, and how you can figure out what they intended.

so surely I can’t answer for all, but to be honest, I always thought the opposite, it was EASIER for the designer to get it right,lso kudos belonged to the non designer even more.
in fact, I know of a few times ( names withheld) that the costume has already been made BEFORE the design was sent in to the folio contest.

Ricky

________________________________
From: Aurora Celeste <auroraceleste@gmail.com<mailto:auroraceleste%40gmail.com>>
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com<mailto:runacc%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2009 10:19:13 PM
Subject: Re: [runacc] Future Fashion Show Awards/singlepattern

Probably sticking my foot in where it doesn’t belong, but I trust y’all can
understand I’m arguing devil’s advocate, not trying to be mean or mad at
someone.

I’d just like to clarify why we think the FFS shouldn’t have many awards.
Is it because it’s not a contest where we just want to have fun? Then yes,
it should be awardless, or few awards. Or is it because things that are
already designed just aren’t as good as things designed by the maker? I
think conversation has been skirting this without actually saying it, so I
thought I’d bring it into the open. Even while obeying the picture and the
description 100% people can vary wildly in their choices within that frame.
Is that somehow less deserving of recognition than something designed and
made by the same person?

~Aurora

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I’m not sure I like the idea. If we continue to hold the Single Pattern Contest on Friday, I think that I prefer keeping it separate from the party. No matter what kind of physical set-up, the Friday Night Social is a Social. It’s where we get together to schmooze before beginning a full weekend of staged shows, workshops, and other programming. Let’s not interrupt that purpose with another staged event, even if the staging takes place on low-level stages/catwalks in the midst of the party.

Byron

—– Original Message —–
From: Martin Gear<mailto:MartinGear@comcast.net>
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com<mailto:runacc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 12:11 AM
Subject: Re: [runacc] single pattern

This is one of the few disadvantages of having CC move to different
venues each year. [And NO! I am not volunteering for anything right
now.] Now were we to be having Costume Con in the same hotel next year,
we could easily plan to do the Single Pattern Contest in the front of
the atrium as a part of the Social with the platforms and some lights
set up against the wall by the Dulaney Room. It would only involve
slight re-arranging of the furniture. But I’m certain that Henry’s hotel
is laid out completely differently, and his committee probably has a
completely different set of ideas as to how things can or should be
run. But I agree with the sentiment that I’d like to see the Single
Pattern contest integrated with the Friday night social.

^M^

Kevin Roche, Costume-Con 26 Chair wrote:
>
>
> I have to admit I liked the idea of it being done like a cafe fashion
> show… with the pieces being presented in the social while folks were
> there, with a route between the tables and a platform or two for focus.
>
> If you could have fixed lighting instruments to highlight those (small)
> risers, it could be a very effective and intimate way to both show off
> the Single Pattern entries and encourage social mixing.
>
> Kevin
>
> Gravely MacCabre wrote:
> >
> >
> > I think Eric Cannon video’d it so there is some hope.
> > if it is to be a separate thing, some amount of regular Masq tech
> > needs to be part of it.
> >
> > it would be nice if the main stage was set, and the ball room was used
> > for the social, but I’m sure from hotel to hotel, there are many ways
> > around this.
> >
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: percentages.
actually Karen is mostly right.
my stats are for the ‘sunday’ event which lumps in both ffs and sp. and it is, as she said , 7-8n %, even at a cc as small as cc-13, the numbers weigh out.

so by splitting them, we ended up OVERALL, with more people in costume, even tho the FFS dipped just a bit.

I haven’t run the lists to get out people who were in both, but I think it’ll end up being 10% of the con did one or the other.

just FYI.

and as always thanks to betsy for cc.org, so the baseball numbers crunching geek in me, has something to do.

Gravely MacCabre
http://www.castleblood.com
http://www.midnightmonsterhop.com
http://www.myspace.com/thecastleblood
http://www.myspace.com/midnightmonsterhop
clip samples at
http://www.veoh.com/channels/castleblood

________________________________
From: Bruce & Nora Mai <casamai@sbcglobal.net>
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 1:41:49 PM
Subject: RE: [runacc] Future Fashion Show Awards/singlepattern

And see – while I agree this would have to happen, I think having to
introduce the Skills Divisions this would take the fun out of it for some
people.

I think it’s interesting to note Karen and Ricky say that FFS percentages
have stayed the same, on average, despite worries that the SP was taking
away from it. Still keeping them separate from now is a good solution.

Bruce

> —–Original Message—–
> From: runacc@yahoogroups. com [mailto:runacc@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of
> Karen Heim
> Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 2:19 AM
> To: runacc@yahoogroups. com
> Subject: Re: [runacc] Future Fashion Show Awards/singlepatter n
>
>
> FFS: Regarding instituting the division system – well,
> yeah. The lack of divisions may eventually become the
> sticking point. Why participate when you know you have no
> chance of winning? People take the Folio Show very
> seriously, and work hard to bring the designer’s creation
> to life – but for what?
>
> Karen (not the momma)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Frankly, I can think of several CCs at which I would have entered the FFS – which I do just because I like the challenge of making up someone elds’s idea – but there was no time. And there was not enough time because the folio did not come out early enough for me. It has NOTHING to do with awards. Same for the Single Pattern.

Elaine

Nil significat nisi oscillat!

Would more awards equal more participants? Would the promise of more possible recognition translate into people actually finishing their outfits or committing to one more readily therefore bumping up the FFS numbers?

I know of one person who reserved one of my designs who didn’t get it done therefore it wasn’t in the show. Another person said she was going to try but ended up not doing it because she didn’t have time.
Three seperate people asked me if they could do 3 different designs later since they hadn’t had time before the con.

That would have been 5 more outfits on stage had they been given more importance by their constructors & completed. Would giving more awards make it more important to them to finish the outfits?

Nora

— In runacc@yahoogroups.com, “Ricky & Karen Dick” <castleb@…> wrote:
> I think Fashion Show awards should be minimal.
>
> Like you said– Best as executed by Designer and Best as executed by Non-Designer.
>
> The real competition was the design contest, and getting into the folio, so the participants are already making up designs that have won something.
>
> Think of the FFS as a showcase, and fun, vs. OMG another competition.
>
> But I can see where some will not want to put forth the time and effort unless there are multiple awards involved.
>
> If somebody has a better model, let’s hear discussion.
>
> Back in the day (Trek conventions in the 80’s run by Bjo Triimble), there were NO awards for being in the FFS–it was just a cool way to make another costume for the convention and be on stage a second time.
>
> –Karen
>
> —– Original Message —–
> From: Bruce & Nora Mai
> To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 1:24 PM
> Subject: [runacc] Future Fashion Show Awards
>
>
>
>
>
> So, over on the SLUTs list, a bit of interesting discussion popped up that
> has been brought up before.
>
> Our (meaning the Costume-Con community) philosophy is “Excellence Deserves
> Recognition”. This applies to everything except for the Future Fashion Show
> – there’s usually only the “Most accurate to Self” and “Most Accurate – not
> by the Designer”. Nora and I are more traditionalists on this, and while
> we don’t object to a couple of other awards, we think things should stay
> essentially as they are. At least one of our people has said if she was
> ever in a position to judge for the FFS again, she essentially said she
> would ignore the standard model and give out as many awards to people she
> believed deserved them.
>
> Our general thinking is:
>
> The FFS is not a competition in the same sense as a masquerade. But I think
> some folks look at it that way.
>
> The competition was the Folio. The challenge at the Show is for people to
> reproduce the designs as faithfully as possible – not to take someone’s
> design and use it as a jumping off point. My perception is that the
> designer should be pleased with bringing their drawing to life as they
> visualized it. Rewarding anything that fell short but looks pretty
> seems…..I dunno….less than faithful to the intent of the show.
>
> The Fashion Show is more relaxed – much like the Single Pattern show.
> Making it more of a standard competition has the potential of ratcheting up
> the pressure.
>
> Frequently, the Folio has designs that are more costume than clothing – too
> many more awards might skew this further, I would think. Where do you draw
> the line, then? Would you have to adopt the 33% rule? Where do you draw
> the line? On the other extreme, there is a danger of the whole “give
> everyone an award that deserves it” more easily getting out of hand.
>
> I’d be interested in hearing what some of you – especially Karen D. – think.
>
> Bruce
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ———————————————————-
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG – www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.287 / Virus Database: 270.12.23/2106 – Release Date: 05/09/09 06:54:00
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live�: Keep your life in sync.
http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_BR_life_in_synch_052009

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]