runacc.costume-con.org

As I said last time, Nora and I are making the effort to get some background
on the anime cosplay culture. We went out and rented 4 videos.
Ironically, what appeals to us/is avaiable at our local Blockbuster is
limited, bt the ones we got are pretty good, from all accounts. I guess
we’ll need to see some titles where the cosplayers are recreating character
designs.

And the report about Marty on that website segues nicely into my book
review. While I was flitting about on that site, I discovered this Kevin
Lillard has produced a fan pub about said Cosplayers and sells it on his
site. It’s an 80 sheet 8.5 x 11.5″ book printed via inkjet of interviews by
Catherine Schaff-Stump (I’ve heard of her somewhere, but just not sure
where) featuring quite a few costumers, with page after page of nice quality
photos. You can tell there was a set form to the interviews, because some
of the same questions and answers keep coming through. But, from what I’ve
read, I think there are a number of the more serious costumers among them
who might be open to another venue to show off their talents. The timing of
our initiative to reach these people may be just about right.

Some observations: As I think someone has already observed, these guys are
mimicing the progress of the general community of from around the late ’70s
and ’80s. There’s an explosion of interest and attendance to these cons to
such an extent in some cases that there are those complaining the events are
gettng TOO big. Already, there are a number of stage shows (masquerades,
cosplay skits, etc.) that are havng to limit the number of entries. Sound
familiar.?

Several people remarked that they wish the judging was more fair. Two or
three people called for a divisions system. One of the intereview featured
the couple who showed up at CC 18(?) and were apparently impressed by the
experience. Looking through the book again, I think one of them was the
Tikki Marty mentioned.

Other interview comments: There are a LOT people wanting to learn how to
make armor — many of them would like to vac-form. Price is a big factor.
Nonetheless, I see a possible opening for those of us with plastic armor and
accessories experience to share knowledge and spread the word about our
education focus.

Another observaton: Several of them do not sew, or only do so on a
rudimentary level.

Age: I don’t know if the book is representative, but most were in their
early 20s, with a sprinkling of older people. The few older people in it
may be known to some of us here, expecially Andy, since I would say the bulk
of the costumers interviewed are from either the Midwest and East.

Two people “would like to see costuming respected more at conventions. ‘A
lot of people think it’s a joke, and they do t just to have fun.’ christina
discussed what she ahs seen at conventions. “If you put the costumes all
together, there are some really great costumes, and they’re designed
beautifully, and they’re sewn so amazingly. People just overlook it, and I
thin there should be more respect for the costume world'”. She goes on to
say she’d like to see the term “cosplay” go away. Not sure if she’s not in
the minority there. Of couse, she’s not too keen onthe competitions,
either. Sounds more like the furry costumer attitude.

The more “serious” costumers are beginning to take notice of the ego-boo
from gettng a workmanship award, so I think Marty’s stint was just the
thing.

Overall, I think that the toughest part will be convincing these folk (who
have the wherewithall to travel and afford a CC) to step outside their
familiar venues and discover there are a whole lot more people who would
love to see them and appreciate their works on a whole different level.

I recommend any committee heads who don’t have an anime con connection but
plan to try to draw from this community to pick this book up and read it.
Plus, like I said — lots of good costume photos.
http://www.fansview.com/book.htm

Bruce

> As I said last time, Nora and I are making the effort to get some

background

> on the anime cosplay culture. We went out and rented 4 videos.
> Ironically, what appeals to us/is avaiable at our local Blockbuster is
> limited, bt the ones we got are pretty good, from all accounts. I guess
> we’ll need to see some titles where the cosplayers are recreating

character

> designs.
>

If you look around on cosplayers personal websites, many of them will
include pictures of the source and of their finished costumes. Some include
more information than that.

> Other interview comments: There are a LOT people wanting to learn how to
> make armor — many of them would like to vac-form. Price is a big factor.
> Nonetheless, I see a possible opening for those of us with plastic armor

and

> accessories experience to share knowledge and spread the word about our
> education focus.

Consistently, the most often “how-to” questions I’ve heard have been for
armor and wings. Here’s a cosplayer who’s done some great armor. I
particularly like the medieval style plate armor seen in Project 1
http://amethyst-angel.com/armormaking.html

Michael

Catherine (and husband Bryon Stump) are Iowa costumers who do (or used to,
anyway) a lot of comic-based costumes. They are/were regulars at Demicon,
but we’ve missed contacting them the last couple of years. Both are teachers.

P & S

>While I was flitting about on that site, I discovered this Kevin
>Lillard has produced a fan pub about said Cosplayers and sells it on his
>site. It’s an 80 sheet 8.5 x 11.5″ book printed via inkjet of interviews by
>Catherine Schaff-Stump (I’ve heard of her somewhere, but just not sure
>where) featuring quite a few costumers, with page after page of nice quality
>photos.

“Those Who Fail To Learn History
Are Doomed to Repeat It;
Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly —
Why They Are Simply Doomed.

Achemdro’hm
“The Illusion of Historical Fact”
— C.Y. 4971

Andromeda

—– Original Message —–
From: “Bruno” <bruno@soulmasque.com>
To: <runacc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 10:26 PM
Subject: Re: [runacc] A Fan’s View, the Book

> > As I said last time, Nora and I are making the effort to get some
> background
> > on the anime cosplay culture. We went out and rented 4 videos.
> > Ironically, what appeals to us/is avaiable at our local Blockbuster is
> > limited, bt the ones we got are pretty good, from all accounts. I guess
> > we’ll need to see some titles where the cosplayers are recreating
> character
> > designs.
> >
>
> If you look around on cosplayers personal websites, many of them will
> include pictures of the source and of their finished costumes. Some
include
> more information than that.

Mmm. I rather do something that hasn’t been done recently. Trying to find
something that way sounds like more work than I want to go to. Besides, if
it’s been done well, I don’t feel like repeating it.
>
>
> > Other interview comments: There are a LOT people wanting to learn how
to
> > make armor — many of them would like to vac-form. Price is a big
factor.
> > Nonetheless, I see a possible opening for those of us with plastic armor
> and
> > accessories experience to share knowledge and spread the word about our
> > education focus.
>
> Consistently, the most often “how-to” questions I’ve heard have been for
> armor and wings. Here’s a cosplayer who’s done some great armor. I
> particularly like the medieval style plate armor seen in Project 1
> http://amethyst-angel.com/armormaking.html

Yeah! I saw that one night during my research of various things Cosplay.
That’s very useful, and I’m going to maybe use that perhaps as a basis for
something I”ll do for a con. Maybe something for something original, too.

Bruce

>

On Jul 23, 2004, at 4:59 PM, runacc@yahoogroups.com wrote:

> CC26? at San Diego Coronation

Please disregard, haven’t the time, inclination, or budget…

—
andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen – http://www.bovil.com/
San Jose, CA – ’72 R75/5 ’86 R100 (mine) – ’92 K75sa ’03 R1150R
(Kevin’s)
…remaining .sig trimmed for better message/.sig ratio

If you’re looking for a distribution point for flyers, you might try Lisa…

Just the messenger…

Cheers,

Betsy

——– Original Message ——–
Subject: Re: [ICG-D] Anime at Costume-Con
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 15:56:21 -0400
From: Lisa A Ashton <lisa58@juno.com>
Reply-To: ICG-D@yahoogroups.com
To: ICG-D@yahoogroups.com

Good job Dany! And great job with your costume!

I will be taking flyers for CC ( a futureCC) to the Known World Costume
Symposium. If there are flyers for CC23 available, feel free to send
them to me and I will make certain that they are distributed among people
that care about costuming, esp. historical. Are you there, Utah? I’ll
be driving to this event, so I have mucho space in the car.

Yours in costuming, Lisa a.

________________________________________________________________
The best thing to hit the Internet in years – Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
Only $14.95/ month – visit www.juno.com to sign up today!

Yahoo! Groups Links

—
—
Betsy R. Delaney
Web Mistress at large

************************************************************************
http://www.WebInvent.com/ * http://www.hawkeswood.com/
http://www.Costume-Con.org/ * http://www.sickpups.org/
http://www.SchoolWithoutWalls.org/
************************************************************************

A question has come up about our program of awarding the Best in Class:
Novice winner a free membership to Costume-Con. The question is: what if
they have already purchased a membership to CC23?

Should we refund the purchased membership? This would seem to be the best
solution from the point of view of the costumer, plus it fulfills the
original purpose of the award–create a lot of excitement and enthusiasm in
the next generation to come to CC.

However, refunds are always painful as they take away from our limited
resources. In other contests, like winning a car, it doesn’t matter if you
just bought a new one, you only choice is to sell or give away the car. So
that is an option for us.

I wouldn’t worry about this, but if we continue with this program (as Andy
and Kevin say they will) then we don’t want to set a wrong precedent here.

Thoughts?

Dave Doering
Co-Chair
CC23: Utah
www.cc23.org

We have a question on comping program participants. What has been the
past practice for programming and concom rates for memberships to CC?

I think we need some good rules of thumb so as not to be unfair or
unreasonable either in support of good people on our programming.

Dave Doering
Co-Chair
CC23: Utah
www.cc23.org

Given the small size of the con and the tightness of the budget, I don’t
remember any CostumeCons comping the program participants. It is
possible that if you were able to get a big name costume designer or
make up artist to come in just to do a couple of panels you would
probably comp them, but for the most part I don’t think that program
participants are or should be comped. All of the Costume Cons that I
have been involved with running have charged everyone including the
committee a membership fee although some of them have charged the
committee the lowest membership rate. In the event that the con makes a
profit, then it is up to the con com as to whether the committee gets
their memberships refunded or whether all the profit gets passed on to
future cons. If you are putting on the con as a part of a 501(c)3
organization there are certain restrictions as to what you can do with
any profits and how you can compensate officers who are also members of
the organization, so the safest thing is to charge everyone (with the
exception of the afore mentioned professionals) a membership and see if
there is any money to disburse at the end.

Marty

davedoering wrote:

>We have a question on comping program participants. What has been the
>past practice for programming and concom rates for memberships to CC?
>
>I think we need some good rules of thumb so as not to be unfair or
>unreasonable either in support of good people on our programming.
>
>Dave Doering
>Co-Chair
>CC23: Utah
>www.cc23.org
>
>
>
>
>
>View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

First Choice: Give them a refund. You shouldn’t have too many of them.
Second Choice: Suggest that they give their membership to a friend.
(Much less desirable)

My $0.05 (this is Washington & an election year!)

^M^

David Doering wrote:

>A question has come up about our program of awarding the Best in Class:
>Novice winner a free membership to Costume-Con. The question is: what if
>they have already purchased a membership to CC23?
>
>Should we refund the purchased membership? This would seem to be the best
>solution from the point of view of the costumer, plus it fulfills the
>original purpose of the award–create a lot of excitement and enthusiasm in
>the next generation to come to CC.
>
>However, refunds are always painful as they take away from our limited
>resources. In other contests, like winning a car, it doesn’t matter if you
>just bought a new one, you only choice is to sell or give away the car. So
>that is an option for us.
>
>I wouldn’t worry about this, but if we continue with this program (as Andy
>and Kevin say they will) then we don’t want to set a wrong precedent here.
>
>Thoughts?
>
>Dave Doering
>Co-Chair
>CC23: Utah
>www.cc23.org
>
>
>
>
>View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

I thought , wrongly perhaps, that any memberships as prizes were for future
cons.
Someone just wins BIC and is all excited, so give them a membership to the
next years con and hook em early.

So whether the next con is donating it, or you are buying the prize
yourself, I think making it sound like

“Hey you’re new, you just did great, you should come next year for free”

is a good idea

Ricky

At 02:29 PM 8/10/2004 -0600, you wrote:

>A question has come up about our program of awarding the Best in Class:
>Novice winner a free membership to Costume-Con. The question is: what if
>they have already purchased a membership to CC23?
>
>Should we refund the purchased membership? This would seem to be the best
>solution from the point of view of the costumer, plus it fulfills the
>original purpose of the award–create a lot of excitement and enthusiasm in
>the next generation to come to CC.
>
>However, refunds are always painful as they take away from our limited
>resources. In other contests, like winning a car, it doesn’t matter if you
>just bought a new one, you only choice is to sell or give away the car. So
>that is an option for us.
>
>I wouldn’t worry about this, but if we continue with this program (as Andy
>and Kevin say they will) then we don’t want to set a wrong precedent here.
>
>Thoughts?
>
>Dave Doering
>Co-Chair
>CC23: Utah
>www.cc23.org
>
>
>
>
>View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

On Aug 10, 2004, at 2:35 PM, Ricky & Karen Dick wrote:

> I thought , wrongly perhaps, that any memberships as prizes were for
> future
> cons.
> Someone just wins BIC and is all excited, so give them a membership to
> the
> next years con and hook em early.

That’s what it has been. If tradition follows, Des Moines will be
offering CC24 memberships to the “Best Novice” winners at CC23.

> So whether the next con is donating it, or you are buying the prize
> yourself, I think making it sound like
>
> “Hey you’re new, you just did great, you should come next year for
> free”

I wonder how many “Best Novice” entrants won that at their first CC.
I’d guess quite a few. Repeat members who compete often don’t spend too
much time in the Novice division, and CC attracts locals who have
competed a lot in regional competitions.

If the CC22’s “Best Novice” winners already had CC23 memberships, my
first (preferred) suggestion is that they may transfer or sell their
extra membership to a friend. Doesn’t subtract anything from your
balances.

You could also “offer” a refund, and give them a check if they take you
up on it, or keep the money if they choose to donate their refund back.
Some folks will do this.

—
andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen – http://www.bovil.com/
San Jose, CA – ’72 R75/5 ’86 R100 (mine) – ’92 K75sa ’03 R1150R
(Kevin’s)
“It’s not pink, it’s peach-colored. Pink is tacky.”
–Manfred Pfirsich Marie Rommel

2nd most important safety device on my bike: the one beneath my right
hand
Most important safety device on my bike: the one inside my helmet

I agree completely.

Byron

—– Original Message —–
From: martingear<mailto:MartinGear@comcast.net>
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com<mailto:runacc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 4:50 PM
Subject: Re: [runacc] Program Participant Rates

Given the small size of the con and the tightness of the budget, I don’t
remember any CostumeCons comping the program participants. It is
possible that if you were able to get a big name costume designer or
make up artist to come in just to do a couple of panels you would
probably comp them, but for the most part I don’t think that program
participants are or should be comped. All of the Costume Cons that I
have been involved with running have charged everyone including the
committee a membership fee although some of them have charged the
committee the lowest membership rate. In the event that the con makes a
profit, then it is up to the con com as to whether the committee gets
their memberships refunded or whether all the profit gets passed on to
future cons. If you are putting on the con as a part of a 501(c)3
organization there are certain restrictions as to what you can do with
any profits and how you can compensate officers who are also members of
the organization, so the safest thing is to charge everyone (with the
exception of the afore mentioned professionals) a membership and see if
there is any money to disburse at the end.

Marty

davedoering wrote:

>We have a question on comping program participants. What has been the
>past practice for programming and concom rates for memberships to CC?
>
>I think we need some good rules of thumb so as not to be unfair or
>unreasonable either in support of good people on our programming.
>
>Dave Doering
>Co-Chair
>CC23: Utah
>www.cc23.org

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I don’t understand. The next con uptime frequently has offered a free membership to the best novice in one of the masquerades at this year’s con. That means that CC 24 might offer a free membership to that con to the best novice in the CC 23 F&SF masquerade, not that CC 23 would give that person a refund. Or did CC 23 offer a free membership to the best novice at CC 22 and found that the person already had a CC 23 membership?

Byron

—– Original Message —–
From: David Doering<mailto:dave@techvoice.com>
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com<mailto:runacc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 4:29 PM
Subject: [runacc] Novice Award Memberships

A question has come up about our program of awarding the Best in Class:
Novice winner a free membership to Costume-Con. The question is: what if
they have already purchased a membership to CC23?

Should we refund the purchased membership? This would seem to be the best
solution from the point of view of the costumer, plus it fulfills the
original purpose of the award–create a lot of excitement and enthusiasm in
the next generation to come to CC.

However, refunds are always painful as they take away from our limited
resources. In other contests, like winning a car, it doesn’t matter if you
just bought a new one, you only choice is to sell or give away the car. So
that is an option for us.

I wouldn’t worry about this, but if we continue with this program (as Andy
and Kevin say they will) then we don’t want to set a wrong precedent here.

Thoughts?

Dave Doering
Co-Chair
CC23: Utah
www.cc23.org<http://www.cc23.org/>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>Byron wrote: “Or did CC 23 offer a free membership to the best novice at
>CC 22 and found that the person already had a CC 23 membership?”

In effect, yes. The person is actually from another con. Currently, CC23 is
doing an outreach program to various cons other than CCs with an offer for
judged shows with a BIS: Novice to get a membership for that novice.

However, it turns out that apparently one novice has already purchased a
CC23 membership.

Dave D.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 8/10/2004 6:14:23 PM Central Daylight Time,
attrembl@bovil.com writes:

> If tradition follows, Des Moines will be
> offering CC24 memberships to the “Best Novice” winners at CC23.

Oh, hell then! I’m competing cuz I is a novice!
Oh wait! I’m staff for CC24! Damn!
Henry

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Everyone, including all staff and committee members had to pay for their
memberships to CC22. The sole exceptions were the two ladies from
Simplicity. Since the company offered them to us and paid all their
expenses, plus purchased an ad in the program book, we were quite willing to
comp them in. They were the closest thing to Big Name Guests we were going
to get since I did not win the lottery and could not offer Ngila an
honorarium to come as guest costumer.

Once we finish paying for everything (still have to finish printing
certificates and mailing them out), we will examine what’s left. We would
like to pass along monies to CC23, but are also hoping to refund program
participants back to the staff rate ($50). In other words, if you paid $65
for your membership, and you were a program participant, you would receive a
refund of $15. This is the plan, but, depending on funds, may not be the
reality. We are not a 501c3, although we are a non-profit corporation, so
I’m not sure yet what the rules are on disbursement of money. Carrie is in
charge of that.

Trudy

>From: martingear <MartinGear@comcast.net>
>Reply-To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
>To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [runacc] Program Participant Rates
>Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 16:50:34 -0400
>
>Given the small size of the con and the tightness of the budget, I don’t
>remember any CostumeCons comping the program participants. It is
>possible that if you were able to get a big name costume designer or
>make up artist to come in just to do a couple of panels you would
>probably comp them, but for the most part I don’t think that program
>participants are or should be comped. All of the Costume Cons that I
>have been involved with running have charged everyone including the
>committee a membership fee although some of them have charged the
>committee the lowest membership rate. In the event that the con makes a
>profit, then it is up to the con com as to whether the committee gets
>their memberships refunded or whether all the profit gets passed on to
>future cons. If you are putting on the con as a part of a 501(c)3
>organization there are certain restrictions as to what you can do with
>any profits and how you can compensate officers who are also members of
>the organization, so the safest thing is to charge everyone (with the
>exception of the afore mentioned professionals) a membership and see if
>there is any money to disburse at the end.
>
>Marty
>
>davedoering wrote:
>
> >We have a question on comping program participants. What has been the
> >past practice for programming and concom rates for memberships to CC?
> >
> >I think we need some good rules of thumb so as not to be unfair or
> >unreasonable either in support of good people on our programming.
> >
> >Dave Doering
> >Co-Chair
> >CC23: Utah
> >www.cc23.org
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

Perhaps I’m wrong on this but; my take on the Novice Membership
awards is that they are used to increase awareness and maybe even
attendance to CostumeCon. As such they would be given to folks that
might not otherwise attend a CostumeCon. In other words present such
a prize at other conventions and venues such as WorldCon and regional
conventions near where the CC would be held. In Des Moines’ case
examples would be Archon, Convergence, etc. Might even consider
State Fair winners, design majors, and such too.

Awarding memberships to Novice winners at a CC is sort of like
preaching to the choir. It is a nice thing to do, but those folks
already know what it is about. Also winners from other venues would
be less likely to already have CC memberships.

Just a thought,
Sallie
Co-Chair CC-24

In runacc@yahoogroups.com, Andrew T Trembley <attrembl@b…> wrote:

> On Aug 10, 2004, at 2:35 PM, Ricky & Karen Dick wrote:
> > I thought , wrongly perhaps, that any memberships as prizes were

for

> > future
> > cons.
> > Someone just wins BIC and is all excited, so give them a

membership to

> > the
> > next years con and hook em early.
>
> That’s what it has been. If tradition follows, Des Moines will be
> offering CC24 memberships to the “Best Novice” winners at CC23.
>
> > So whether the next con is donating it, or you are buying the

prize

> > yourself, I think making it sound like
> >
> > “Hey you’re new, you just did great, you should come next year

for

> > free”
>
> I wonder how many “Best Novice” entrants won that at their first

CC.

> I’d guess quite a few. Repeat members who compete often don’t spend

too

> much time in the Novice division, and CC attracts locals who have
> competed a lot in regional competitions.
>
> If the CC22’s “Best Novice” winners already had CC23 memberships,

my

> first (preferred) suggestion is that they may transfer or sell

their

> extra membership to a friend. Doesn’t subtract anything from your
> balances.
>
> You could also “offer” a refund, and give them a check if they take

you

> up on it, or keep the money if they choose to donate their refund

back.

> Some folks will do this.
>
> —
> andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen – http://www.bovil.com/
> San Jose, CA – ’72 R75/5 ’86 R100 (mine) – ’92 K75sa ’03 R1150R
> (Kevin’s)
> “It’s not pink, it’s peach-colored. Pink is tacky.”
> –Manfred Pfirsich Marie Rommel
>
> 2nd most important safety device on my bike: the one beneath my

right

> hand
> Most important safety device on my bike: the one inside my helmet

In a message dated 8/11/2004 12:48:42 PM Central Daylight Time,
gsabba@worldnet.att.net writes:

> Might even consider
> State Fair winners, design majors, and such too.

Sallie,
That is a fantastic idea!
I used the membership prize to a promising novice idea as a
promotional tool. Being able to get up in front of a friendly audience and make a quick
plug about your is worth the cost of a membership.
Henry

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>Henry wrote: “Being able to … make a quick
>plug about your is worth the cost of a membership.”

That was my thinking. For example, at Norwescon, we had most of the
1000-plus membership sit and listen to a short ad for Costume-Con. Maybe
not everyone would come, but now they know there _is_ such a thing as CC
and that it thinks going to it is important enough to offer a membership as
a prize!

I don’t imagine more than a handful of the membership would have noticed a
flyer alone at the flyer table.

Dave Doering

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

When we did this for CCXV, I ran into only one situation that wasn’t
according to the “plan” – and it happens that the recipient is
babysitting my kids these days. I asked her today what I decided back
then. The situation was: She was part of a two-person presentation, and
they both won Best in Class. We agreed early only to award one
membership. As it happened, Amber already had a membership, so the
decision was to give the second membership to her friend.

Not exactly the situation you described, but that’s how we handled the
problem. The alternative (ickier) would have been to give both of them
half-price memberships. A bookkeeping nightmare, if it happens more than
once. You have to set your policy early to be sure that everyone is
clear on the concept.

Cheers,

Betsy

David Doering wrote:

>>Henry wrote: “Being able to … make a quick
>>plug about your is worth the cost of a membership.”
>
>
> That was my thinking. For example, at Norwescon, we had most of the
> 1000-plus membership sit and listen to a short ad for Costume-Con. Maybe
> not everyone would come, but now they know there _is_ such a thing as CC
> and that it thinks going to it is important enough to offer a membership as
> a prize!
>
> I don’t imagine more than a handful of the membership would have noticed a
> flyer alone at the flyer table.
>
> Dave Doering
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

—
—
Betsy R. Delaney
Web Mistress at large

************************************************************************
http://www.WebInvent.com/ * http://www.hawkeswood.com/
http://www.Costume-Con.org/ * http://www.sickpups.org/
http://www.SchoolWithoutWalls.org/
************************************************************************

At 03:50 PM 8/10/2004, you wrote:

We agree with Marty on this.

Pierre and Sandy

>Given the small size of the con and the tightness of the budget, I don’t
>remember any CostumeCons comping the program participants. It is
>possible that if you were able to get a big name costume designer or
>make up artist to come in just to do a couple of panels you would
>probably comp them, but for the most part I don’t think that program
>participants are or should be comped. All of the Costume Cons that I
>have been involved with running have charged everyone including the
>committee a membership fee although some of them have charged the
>committee the lowest membership rate. In the event that the con makes a
>profit, then it is up to the con com as to whether the committee gets
>their memberships refunded or whether all the profit gets passed on to
>future cons. If you are putting on the con as a part of a 501(c)3
>organization there are certain restrictions as to what you can do with
>any profits and how you can compensate officers who are also members of
>the organization, so the safest thing is to charge everyone (with the
>exception of the afore mentioned professionals) a membership and see if
>there is any money to disburse at the end.
>
>Marty
>
>davedoering wrote:
>
> >We have a question on comping program participants. What has been the
> >past practice for programming and concom rates for memberships to CC?
> >
> >I think we need some good rules of thumb so as not to be unfair or
> >unreasonable either in support of good people on our programming.
> >
> >Dave Doering
> >Co-Chair
> >CC23: Utah
> >www.cc23.org

“Those Who Fail To Learn History
Are Doomed to Repeat It;
Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly —
Why They Are Simply Doomed.

Achemdro’hm
“The Illusion of Historical Fact”
— C.Y. 4971

Andromeda

We agree also.

–Karen

At 04:33 PM 8/11/2004 -0500, you wrote:

>We agree with Marty on this.
>
>Pierre and Sandy
>
> >Given the small size of the con and the tightness of the budget, I don’t
> >remember any CostumeCons comping the program participants. It is
> >possible that if you were able to get a big name costume designer or
> >make up artist to come in just to do a couple of panels you would
> >probably comp them, but for the most part I don’t think that program
> >participants are or should be comped. All of the Costume Cons that I
> >have been involved with running have charged everyone including the
> >committee a membership fee although some of them have charged the
> >committee the lowest membership rate. In the event that the con makes a
> >profit, then it is up to the con com as to whether the committee gets
> >their memberships refunded or whether all the profit gets passed on to
> >future cons. If you are putting on the con as a part of a 501(c)3
> >organization there are certain restrictions as to what you can do with
> >any profits and how you can compensate officers who are also members of
> >the organization, so the safest thing is to charge everyone (with the
> >exception of the afore mentioned professionals) a membership and see if
> >there is any money to disburse at the end.
> >
> >Marty

Thought this would be of interest…

Cheers,

Betsy

——– Original Message ——–
Subject: [ICG-D] Fliers & stuph
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 10:07:43 -0400
From: Elaine Mami <ecmami@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ICG-D@yahoogroups.com
To: ICG-D@yahoogroups.com

Hi, All,

Once again, about the N4 Costume Display.

I still need information on the costumes you are bringing to sdhow. (You
know who you are!) I want to prepare the signage before the con.

Also, I INSIST that all upcoming CCs and CC bids get fliers to me to put at
the display. I STRONGLY ENCOURAGE all chapters to get me your general
info.
fliers, because it is very likely that someone from your area will drop in
to see the display. This is a WORLDcon folks, so let’s tell the world
about
us!! (Can you say “outreach” boys and girls? I knew you could!)

Elaine
Who just may get her costume done in time!

Nil significat nili osculat!

_________________________________________________________________
Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/

Yahoo! Groups Links

—
—
Betsy R. Delaney
Web Mistress at large

************************************************************************
http://www.WebInvent.com/ * http://www.hawkeswood.com/
http://www.Costume-Con.org/ * http://www.sickpups.org/
http://www.SchoolWithoutWalls.org/
************************************************************************

Dear Fellow RunACCs:

September 12th is the cutoff for the $75.00 membership rate for
Costume-Con 23: Utah!

Please let everyone know–the website is open 24HRS/7 Days a week for
online signups.

Yours,

Dave Doering
Co-Chair
CC23: Utah
www.cc23.org
REMEMBER: September 12th is the cutoff for the current membership
rate!!

On various occassions I have been presented names for people to work
with on Costume-Con 23. However, I also know that I have seen these
people do the same job over and over.

Is there a guideline on this? Should this be left to the individual?

Sometimes the person involved should say no, but doesn’t. Then feels
put-upon in private. How do we help avoid this?

Dave Doering
CC23: Utah
www.cc23.org
REMEMBER: September 12th is the cutoff for the current membership
rate!!

Well, I would say that it depends upon how well you like the job that
the person does. I did hotel liaison for ten years (after all, I
negotiate contracts with the Federal Government for a living) until I
burned out after BucCONeer, but if we get the bid for CC-27 I’ll be
doing that again. Byron invented many of the things that have become
standard for a well run Green Room, and if he offers you couldn’t get a
better person IMHO, but now that he has discovered being on stage who
knows if he’ll volunteer. There is something to be said for experience.
Most of us learn from our mistakes and if we’ve been doing a job long
enough there just aren’t that many new mistakes for us to make. If the
person is experienced and volunteers, and if you like what you’ve seen
them do, then by all means accept. We are most of us grown ups and we
should know better than to volunteer if we really don’t want to do a
particular job. I would think that your big problem would be if someone
volunteered to do something and your personal opinion is that they
really stink at it, then how do you turn them down without hurting their
feelings.

YMMV –

^M^

davedoering wrote:

>On various occassions I have been presented names for people to work
>with on Costume-Con 23. However, I also know that I have seen these
>people do the same job over and over.
>
>Is there a guideline on this? Should this be left to the individual?
>
>Sometimes the person involved should say no, but doesn’t. Then feels
>put-upon in private. How do we help avoid this?
>
>Dave Doering
>CC23: Utah
>www.cc23.org
>REMEMBER: September 12th is the cutoff for the current membership
>rate!!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

At 10:32 PM 9/9/2004 +0000, you wrote:

>I also know that I have seen these people do the same job over and over.

Not a problem if they’re doing a good job, and like doing that job.

Big problem if they hate doing that job, or do it poorly.

Semi problem if somebody else also wants the job, and would also do it well.

Big problem if too few committee people are taking on too many jobs.

Chairing a concom is such fun, isn’t it?

>Is there a guideline on this?

No. Some CC concoms like to stick with familiar people in familiar
positions. Others feel more adventurous, and like to mix things up.

>Should this be left to the individual?

The individual doing the job, or …?

If nobody is going to do the job, you may have to settle for a
less-than-perfect choice if somebody volunteers, or if you have to
press-gang somebody into doing it.

People may volunteer for jobs, but it is your prerogative as con chair to
give them the go-ahead (or not). However, it is also your job as con chair
to delegate as much authority as possible (or you will be wearing too many
hats and doing too many jobs yourself and running yourself ragged).

Things may not get done the way you would have them done in an ideal world.
But they will get done. They may even get done better than you expected if
you delegate the authority and give the person freedom to do it their way.

>Sometimes the person involved should say no, but doesn’t. Then feels
>put-upon in private. How do we help avoid this?

It is very hard for some people to say no, even when they should. They
don’t want to displease the person who is asking.

Tell them that it’s OK to say “no.” And that you will not think less of
them as a person, or withdraw your friendship if they say “no.” (And mean
it.) And if they obviously seem to be struggling in the job, ask if there’s
anything you can do to help.

–Karen

Dave,

This may seem simplistic, but you might try something like offerring an
either-or to them. “I would love to have you work on my committee. Would
you like to do ‘X’, or would you prefer to do another job? These are the
openings I have.”

Elaine

>From: “davedoering” <dave@techvoice.com>
>Reply-To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
>To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [runacc] Overuse of Staff
>Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 22:32:55 -0000
>
>On various occassions I have been presented names for people to work
>with on Costume-Con 23. However, I also know that I have seen these
>people do the same job over and over.
>
>Is there a guideline on this? Should this be left to the individual?
>
>Sometimes the person involved should say no, but doesn’t. Then feels
>put-upon in private. How do we help avoid this?
>
>Dave Doering
>CC23: Utah
>www.cc23.org
>REMEMBER: September 12th is the cutoff for the current membership
>rate!!
>
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to
get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement

Dave —

There is a great North American floating masquerade crew; the names you have been getting are part of it. It is very likely that the people for whom you have received recommendations are the VERY best at these jobs. You ought to take them if you want a successful con. If they don’t want the job, they’ll say “no”; please, don’t worry about that!

You were advised to ask me to run the green rooms. Instead, you asked me for names of possible green room managers. I gave you several names and told you that I would run the green rooms if none of them were available. I have heard via the grapevine that they turned you down. Is that correct? If so, I have not heard from you. If you want someone else, I’ll try to come up with some additional names if you can send me the list of attending members.

Within the confines of the runacc group ONLY, we want to see CC 23 succeed; frankly, however, several of us are very worried about the committee’s lack of progress in filling out the convention staff.

Please forgive my tone; I’m worried.

Byron

—– Original Message —–
From: davedoering<mailto:dave@techvoice.com>
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com<mailto:runacc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 6:32 PM
Subject: [runacc] Overuse of Staff

On various occassions I have been presented names for people to work
with on Costume-Con 23. However, I also know that I have seen these
people do the same job over and over.

Is there a guideline on this? Should this be left to the individual?

Sometimes the person involved should say no, but doesn’t. Then feels
put-upon in private. How do we help avoid this?

Dave Doering
CC23: Utah
www.cc23.org<http://www.cc23.org/>
REMEMBER: September 12th is the cutoff for the current membership
rate!!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Byron wrote: ” Please forgive my tone”

I am never concerned when important issues are brought up, as I
think these are. And certainly not from someone of your background
and abilities, Byron. I do realize we all want Costume-Con to
succeed, this year, next year, and so on. I’ll accept any amount of
criticism now to improve our con over getting it on May 3rd, 2005.

To answer the most serious of your questions first:

“I have heard via the grapevine that [potential Green Room Managers]
turned you down. Is that correct?”

No, this is not correct. I do not know who might have said this, but
I have had no one turn me down. I have asked several about their
interest, but they have not said “No” to me directly. (I had assumed
that because of WorldCon there would be some lag between my asking
and their ability to respond.)

If you have heard differently, I am curious to know from whom and
when. This does concern me, as it suggests someone may not be
willing to talk to me or our staff about working with Costume-Con
23. If there is something that hurts a committee, it is bad
communication.

You also said “You were advised to ask me to run the green rooms.
Instead, you asked me for names of possible green room managers.”

I apologize if I have left you confused. It was certainly NOT
because I didn’t or don’t appreciate your abilities. Far from it.

As you’ll recall, you and I spoke in Atlanta about your serving as
the Green Room Manager for CC23. I said that I already understood
you were one of, if not the, premier Green Room person, and we would
like to have you, but that I didn’t want to force you to do
a “repeat performance” right after Atlanta. That, if I could, I
would like to have some other names to possibly serve for that
position. You were kind enough to say “I will serve in any way you
need me to” which I appreciated.

It was not, then, that I didn’t appreciate your ability from early
on, it was my continuing desire to offer you other choices if you
wanted to. If I was wrong in that, I apologize.

I have always and would always welcome your services as Green Room
Director or in any other capacity for our convention.

Also, I might add, my reason for posting the question
about “overuse” of staff was not an uncomfortable effort to ask you
to serve without asking you. Instead, I knew we had other positions
to fill in the immediate future (ie: post-WorldCon), I wanted to
make such decisions fast and effectively. It helps to know from
people with lots of past experience in fannish endeavors what
works/doesn’t work so we wouldn’t take any more time in making that
happen.

You said: “…several of us are very worried about the committee’s
lack of progress in filling out the convention staff.”

If you wanted to instill in me and our con-com an even stronger
sense of urgency, you have done so.

Which particular positions you are thinking of?

You said: “You ought to take [staff suggestions] if you want a
successful con.”

I _am_ happy to say that Charles and I have always taken staff
suggestions with the utmost seriousness. We have never rejected
anyone because we are too parochial “we-want-to-do-it-ourselves” or
because we were unwilling to ask.

As I said, I welcome suggestions, error correction, or even abuse if
it helps us make CC23 more successful for anyone. Don’t wait until
May to speak up.

Yours,

Dave Doering
CC23: Utah

…sent out to Lisa Ashton for the Known World Costume Symposium

—
andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen – http://www.bovil.com/
San Jose, CA – ’72 R75/5 ’86 R100 (mine) – ’92 K75sa ’03 R1150R
(Kevin’s)
…remaining .sig trimmed for better message/.sig ratio

The Imperial Court of Iowa is having its Coronation this weekend in Des
Moines.

http://www.impcourt.org/icis/chapters/desmoines.html
http://www.imperialcourtofia.org/Coronation%20XI.htm

It would be a good idea to attend and get an idea what this event is
like. Next year you really should walk as an in-town organization to
promote the con.

—
andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen
http://www.bovil.com/
“It’s not pink; it’s peach-colored. Pink is tacky.” –Manfred Pfirsich
Marie Rommel

Pardon the cross-posting but…

ANNOUNCING…
The brand-spanking new CC25 website!
New look, more info!
Check it out at:

www.cc25.net

Thank you.
You may now return to your regularly scheduled program.

Nora Mai

Nora wrote: “ANNOUNCING…The brand-spanking new CC25 website!”

Yes, it is _real_ cool!

Good work.

Dave Doering
CC23: Utah

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The CC22 link is dead. You may want to connect to the Costume-Con
page for that con.

Maybe Trudy archived the site somewhere.

Karen

Same for CC18.

Karen

— In runacc@yahoogroups.com, “axejudge” <axejudge@a…> wrote:
> The CC22 link is dead. You may want to connect to the Costume-Con
> page for that con.
>
> Maybe Trudy archived the site somewhere.
>
> Karen

Nora,
I sent the site to a whole bunch of the folks up here to spread the
word!
Henry
your site selection guy until you come up with something else for me
to
do for your con

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Greetings all,

Here’s a topic for discussion. Is there a tradition of staff
memberships at Costume-Con? If so what is the usual rate and are
there any restrictions/conditions attached?

Sallie Abba
CC-24

On Oct 6, 2004, at 9:32 AM, srabba wrote:

> Here’s a topic for discussion. Is there a tradition of staff
> memberships at Costume-Con? If so what is the usual rate and are
> there any restrictions/conditions attached?

Staff membership availability is usually determined by what your con
budget allows…

I prefer to at least stick to the “everybody pays” rule, and if the con
has enough surplus at the end it may refund staff and volunteers what
they paid.

—
Andy Trembley, Bull-in-Drag
The Bovine Illuminati (It’s the Cows, Inc.)
http://www.bovil.com/
Moo!

Hi, Sallie!

CCXV offered a fixed rate of $45 for its staff members, with the
understanding that if we made a profit, we would offer refunds. As it
happened, we provided refunds to approximately three-quarters of the
staff, with the remainder offering their money up as a donation to the
next CC.

Exact figures are in the online Budget on the Costume-ConNections site.

Don’t know what the succeeding CCs did…

Betsy

srabba wrote:

>
> Greetings all,
>
> Here’s a topic for discussion. Is there a tradition of staff
> memberships at Costume-Con? If so what is the usual rate and are
> there any restrictions/conditions attached?
>
> Sallie Abba
> CC-24

—
—
Betsy R. Delaney
Web Mistress at large

************************************************************************
http://www.WebInvent.com/ * http://www.hawkeswood.com/
http://www.Costume-Con.org/ * http://www.sickpups.org/
http://www.SchoolWithoutWalls.org/
************************************************************************

Our procedure at CC23 is what Andy says–“Everybody pays”–which we felt
was fair. Otherwise it is just too difficult to try and evaluate levels of
contribution to make any “complimentary” staff memberships work.

To arrive at our starting rate, we looked at our budget, number of members
expected, and then worked backwards to set levels for At-the-door,
three-months-out, six-months-out, etc.

Dave Doering
CC23: Utah
www.cc23.org

I seem to remember that CC-3 and CC-9 did basically what Betsy said
about CC-15. As far as I recall, the staff membership was set at the
supporting membership rate which was set at a level to cover all
publications cost including mailing of the Whole Costumers’ Catalog, the
FFF, all PR’s and the program book. I don’t believe that CC-3 was able
to refund the staff memberships in full, but I do believe that each
staff member was given a partial reimbursement.

Marty

srabba wrote:

>Greetings all,
>
>Here’s a topic for discussion. Is there a tradition of staff
>memberships at Costume-Con? If so what is the usual rate and are
>there any restrictions/conditions attached?
>
>Sallie Abba
>CC-24
>
>
>
>
>
>
>View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

In my experience, there is no tradition of a special staff rate; staff members pay the full rate. Most CCs need all the income they can get.

Byron

—– Original Message —–
From: srabba<mailto:gsabba@worldnet.att.net>
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com<mailto:runacc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2004 12:32 PM
Subject: [runacc] Staff memberships

Greetings all,

Here’s a topic for discussion. Is there a tradition of staff
memberships at Costume-Con? If so what is the usual rate and are
there any restrictions/conditions attached?

Sallie Abba
CC-24

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have no recollection at all about what Tina and I paid at CC 9. She and I were in charge of logistics. I also ran the masquerade green rooms and she provided the repair table.

Byron

—– Original Message —–
From: martingear<mailto:MartinGear@comcast.net>
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com<mailto:runacc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2004 5:57 PM
Subject: Re: [runacc] Staff memberships

I seem to remember that CC-3 and CC-9 did basically what Betsy said
about CC-15. As far as I recall, the staff membership was set at the
supporting membership rate which was set at a level to cover all
publications cost including mailing of the Whole Costumers’ Catalog, the
FFF, all PR’s and the program book. I don’t believe that CC-3 was able
to refund the staff memberships in full, but I do believe that each
staff member was given a partial reimbursement.

Marty

srabba wrote:

>Greetings all,
>
>Here’s a topic for discussion. Is there a tradition of staff
>memberships at Costume-Con? If so what is the usual rate and are
>there any restrictions/conditions attached?
>
>Sallie Abba
>CC-24

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I can’t recall what I paid for CC9 (I was Exhibits Coordinator, but I
also had a dealer table, which made a difference), but I do know the $45
figure was our starting point for memberships, and we simply froze it at
that rate for our staff, regardless of when they paid. Supporting
memberships for CCXV were at $25.

I don’t think I got a refund for CC9, but I could be wrong.

Setting the rate at the start of the budget process is the best thing to
do, since it gives you the best idea for how much you’ll have to spend
at the end. I found that the best way to manage the money was to be
flexible. And in one case in particular, the Whole Costumers’ Catalog,
we were still generating income from the sales of that publication well
over a year after the conclusion of the conference. I passed all income
from the sale of the books (if I recall), once all our bills were paid
and refunds were processed, either back to Karen or on to the next CC. I
don’t recall correctly which (we ran out well over 5 years ago!).

YMMV

Betsy

martingear wrote:

> I seem to remember that CC-3 and CC-9 did basically what Betsy said
> about CC-15. As far as I recall, the staff membership was set at the
> supporting membership rate which was set at a level to cover all
> publications cost including mailing of the Whole Costumers’ Catalog, the
> FFF, all PR’s and the program book. I don’t believe that CC-3 was able
> to refund the staff memberships in full, but I do believe that each
> staff member was given a partial reimbursement.
>
> Marty

—
—
Betsy R. Delaney
Web Mistress at large

************************************************************************
http://www.WebInvent.com/ * http://www.hawkeswood.com/
http://www.Costume-Con.org/ * http://www.sickpups.org/
http://www.SchoolWithoutWalls.org/
************************************************************************

We’re still researching this one. The general policy at CC16 was as Andy
described. We will probably have a flat rate that staffers can join in the
next couple of years — up to some future point in time. After that, they
will be responsible for more if they wait too long.

Bruce