runacc.costume-con.org

Ah. John’s a good choice. I was very imipressed with his knowledge when I
first saw him at a panel at Chicon in 1991(?)

Bruce

—– Original Message —–
From: “Andrew T Trembley” <attrembl@bovil.com>
To: <runacc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 8:19 PM
Subject: Re: [runacc] Costuming GOHs

> On Apr 28, 2004, at 5:25 PM, Ricky & Karen Dick wrote:
> > I was Fan GOH of WesterCon in 1989 based mainly on my costuming. Does
> > that
> > mean they should count? (Andy probably has a better grasp of how
> > costumer-friendly the con is now.)
>
> WesterCon, like WorldCon, depends entirely upon the committee putting
> it on. There is the strong traditional support for Masquerade, but some
> years that might be it. This year the head of programming just happens
> to be the president of SWCG and the FanGOH is John Hertz, so it’s going
> to be a very costume-friendly con.
>
> As for the Fan GOH question… regardless of the membership, any
> convention that picks costumers as FanGOHs regularly is worth
> cultivating a relationship with.
>
> —
> andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen
> http://www.irlm.org/ – mailto:webmaster@irlm.org
> “Anybody who takes this seriously deserves to”
> — Donna Barr
>
>
>
>
> View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

I would assume so. The key is finding out if they’re still bringing in
costuming-type GOHs.

Bruce

—– Original Message —–
From: “Ricky & Karen Dick” <castleb@pulsenet.com>
To: <runacc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 7:25 PM
Subject: Re: [runacc] Costuming GOHs

> Arisia and Lunacon do, but it varies from year to year, depending on who’s
> on the committee and pushing for it.
>
> Ditto Balticon.
>
> I was Fan GOH of WesterCon in 1989 based mainly on my costuming. Does that
> mean they should count? (Andy probably has a better grasp of how
> costumer-friendly the con is now.)
>
> –Karen
>
> At 06:07 PM 4/28/2004 -0500, you wrote:
> >That one we knew. What other cons (in any state) regularly have Costuming
> >GOHs? Our regional, Archon, has for several years now. What others?
> >
> >Nora
> >—– Original Message —–
> >From: “Andrew T Trembley” <attrembl@bovil.com>
> > > Julie Zetterberg is Costume GOH at MarCon (Memorial Day Weekend) this
> > > year. She’s going to be taking some of our fliers and award ribbons
> > > with her.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

On Apr 29, 2004, at 6:05 PM, Bruce & Nora Mai wrote:

> I think that Andy’s probably right about the whole FGOH vx. CGOH
> thing. So
> the question becomes, outside of having a friendly commmittee, how do
> we
> get more cons to recognize the value of a costuming guest?

Fan GoH selection is perhaps the most mystical of committee processes.
Damned if I know how it really works.

In the really old days (and I’m going on hearsay here) it was often
based on a desire to bring in some big name fanzine writer/publisher
from outside the area, ‘cuz cons were a way for fanzine fans to get
together.

These days, it seems to be more about one’s service to the convention,
the regional community or fandom as a whole. Some conventions
(WorldCon, particularly) have arcane traditions surrounding
eligibility. Some conventions pick their Fan GoH by random drawing.
Some conventions are only concerned about a candidate’s SMOF resume.

So to answer the original question: “Ask committee members (more than
one, ideally) how the con selects a Fan GoH, and what criteria are
important.”

If you can get a straight answer on this (and I’m not going to
guarantee that’s going to happen, some committees don’t want people to
know how they make these decisions) you may be able to suggest
candidates that are to their liking.

—
andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen – http://www.bovil.com/
San Jose, CA – ’72 R75/5 ’86 R100 (mine) – ’92 K75sa ’03 R1150R
(Kevin’s)
…remaining .sig trimmed for better message/.sig ratio

Hammer away,
we’ve never heard anything but good news about Archon.

As soon as it’s not in the Halloween season, we’ll be there 🙂

Ricky

Halloween season definition, Sept15th to November 15th
sept 15th to oct fist weekend, finish building and going gray.
first weekend till Nov 1 open and perform,
Nov 2nd till Nov 15th, drink, sleep, lather rinse repeat.

Betsy said:
I heard a hot rumor (unsubstantiated) that the Hunt Valley will be
taking Balticon back in the near future. If that’s the case, we may
start attending on a regular basis again.

The move downtown was a significant factor in Byron & me deciding to drop
Balticon from our con list. It’s a longish drive for us anyway, now that
we’re not as young as we were, and we typically used to get to Maryland at
around rush hour, so the move added at least an hour to the drive. We also
have no great desire to stay at the Omni – we never have stayed there, but
the feedback we have heard from others is discouraging, to say the least.
On the other hand, we really liked the Hunt Valley venue, and a move back
there might lure us, especially if the author GOH is interesting (who says
costumers don’t read?).

Tina

In a message dated 4/29/2004 8:37:30 PM Central Daylight Time,
casamai@sbcglobal.net writes:

> but you ain’t been to Archon yet….

Ditto!
The Archon crew was also the crew at the last ChiCon.

And what is dumbfounding to me is that Archon is about the same size as
WindyCon in Chicago, and the attitudes towards the masquerade from one to the other
is light day to night. The Archon Masquerade rocks! Whereas WindyCon . . .

Henry

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

These are all very logical ideas, which I think we should work to implement.
I know that we already carry multiple fliers to every con we attend, and
fliers covering multiple cons is an even better use of our luggage space.

Elaine

>
>Still on the theme of PR:
>I’ve got the germ of an idea that I’d like to put out here and get some
>help
>refining.
>Since all CCs are aiming at the same general market, no matter what the
>geographic area, shouldn’t we at least have all of our flyers at the same
>cons? Particularly the hot-bed, costuming friendly/intensive ones? Couldn’t
>a shared mass-marketing scheme be devised to promote all CCs
>
>PR can be expensive. By sharing PR efforts we can generate more extensive
>interest while reducing overall costs by pooling our resources and efforts.
>Here’s some thoughts:
>1. If one CC is sending flyers to a Con, include flyers from all the
>others;
>maybe bids as well.
>2. Collective flyers for smaller cons? Something like “Interested in
>Costuming? Upcoming CCs are…”
>3. Collective ads; similar content to #2 above. Program ads can be
>expensive.
>
>In other words, instead of marketing as individual cons, start using each
>other’s sources and promote Costume-Con as a recurring event. Obviously
>each
>group would devote more of their resources to their own effort but why not
>piggyback? Share the work and the cost, and possibly produce wider
>benefits.
>Nora
>

_________________________________________________________________
Check out the coupons and bargains on MSN Offers! http://youroffers.msn.com

We have begun targeting period dance groups. Also, don’t forget living
history groups and college/high school drama groups.

Elaine

>> > Now, what further steps can we take to attract costumers from venues
>>other
> > than SF cons?
>

_________________________________________________________________
Check out the coupons and bargains on MSN Offers! http://youroffers.msn.com

Betsy,

PLEASE don’t refer to costumers as “non-readers!” I think Bob Silverberg
learned that lesson the hard way!!

Elaine

Blessed are we who can laugh at ourselves, for we shall always be amused.

>I think that you’re right – the perception is frequently that costumers
>aren’t “real” fen, because they devote their free time to something
>other than reading.

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Toolbar provides one-click access to Hotmail from any Web page � FREE
download! http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/

This cross marketing is something Karen and I were talking about with a
few on this list at CC-22.

We will asap be starting to brand the CC name in general. CC as an umbrella
org type thing will have it’s own logo, images etc ( That each con com can
use or not use as they see fit as part of the licensing)

Our goal is to increase awareness of the con as an entity regardless of
location, but to send people to the website, which then also directs them
to each individual convention.

Ricky

At 10:04 AM 5/3/2004 -0400, you wrote:

>These are all very logical ideas, which I think we should work to implement.
> I know that we already carry multiple fliers to every con we attend, and
>fliers covering multiple cons is an even better use of our luggage space.
>
>Elaine
>
> >
> >Still on the theme of PR:
> >I’ve got the germ of an idea that I’d like to put out here and get some
> >help
> >refining.
> >Since all CCs are aiming at the same general market, no matter what the
> >geographic area, shouldn’t we at least have all of our flyers at the same
> >cons? Particularly the hot-bed, costuming friendly/intensive ones? Couldn’t
> >a shared mass-marketing scheme be devised to promote all CCs
> >
> >PR can be expensive. By sharing PR efforts we can generate more extensive
> >interest while reducing overall costs by pooling our resources and efforts.
> >Here’s some thoughts:
> >1. If one CC is sending flyers to a Con, include flyers from all the
> >others;
> >maybe bids as well.
> >2. Collective flyers for smaller cons? Something like “Interested in
> >Costuming? Upcoming CCs are…”
> >3. Collective ads; similar content to #2 above. Program ads can be
> >expensive.
> >
> >In other words, instead of marketing as individual cons, start using each
> >other’s sources and promote Costume-Con as a recurring event. Obviously
> >each
> >group would devote more of their resources to their own effort but why not
> >piggyback? Share the work and the cost, and possibly produce wider
> >benefits.
> >Nora
> >
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Check out the coupons and bargains on MSN Offers! http://youroffers.msn.com
>
>
>
>
>View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Sorry – that isn’t *my* attitude. Check my library sometime for reasons
why *I* don’t think this applies.

You’re preaching to the choir here.

-b

Elaine Mami wrote:

> Betsy,
>
> PLEASE don’t refer to costumers as “non-readers!” I think Bob Silverberg
> learned that lesson the hard way!!
>
> Elaine
>
> Blessed are we who can laugh at ourselves, for we shall always be amused.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>I think that you’re right – the perception is frequently that costumers
>>aren’t “real” fen, because they devote their free time to something
>>other than reading.
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN Toolbar provides one-click access to Hotmail from any Web page – FREE
> download! http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/
>
>
>
>
> View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

—
—
Betsy R. Delaney
Web Mistress at large

************************************************************************
http://www.WebInvent.com/ * http://www.hawkeswood.com/
http://www.Costume-Con.org/ * http://www.sickpups.org/
http://www.SchoolWithoutWalls.org/
************************************************************************

This will, of course, help to establish the “National Organization”
whose contract we are submitting to hotels. 😉

^M^

Ricky & Karen Dick wrote:

>This cross marketing is something Karen and I were talking about with a
>few on this list at CC-22.
>
>We will asap be starting to brand the CC name in general. CC as an umbrella
>org type thing will have it’s own logo, images etc ( That each con com can
>use or not use as they see fit as part of the licensing)
>
>Our goal is to increase awareness of the con as an entity regardless of
>location, but to send people to the website, which then also directs them
>to each individual convention.
>
>Ricky
>
>
>
>
>At 10:04 AM 5/3/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>
>
>>These are all very logical ideas, which I think we should work to implement.
>> I know that we already carry multiple fliers to every con we attend, and
>>fliers covering multiple cons is an even better use of our luggage space.
>>
>>Elaine
>>
>>
>>
>>>Still on the theme of PR:
>>>I’ve got the germ of an idea that I’d like to put out here and get some
>>>help
>>>refining.
>>>Since all CCs are aiming at the same general market, no matter what the
>>>geographic area, shouldn’t we at least have all of our flyers at the same
>>>cons? Particularly the hot-bed, costuming friendly/intensive ones? Couldn’t
>>>a shared mass-marketing scheme be devised to promote all CCs
>>>
>>>PR can be expensive. By sharing PR efforts we can generate more extensive
>>>interest while reducing overall costs by pooling our resources and efforts.
>>>Here’s some thoughts:
>>>1. If one CC is sending flyers to a Con, include flyers from all the
>>>others;
>>>maybe bids as well.
>>>2. Collective flyers for smaller cons? Something like “Interested in
>>>Costuming? Upcoming CCs are…”
>>>3. Collective ads; similar content to #2 above. Program ads can be
>>>expensive.
>>>
>>>In other words, instead of marketing as individual cons, start using each
>>>other’s sources and promote Costume-Con as a recurring event. Obviously
>>>each
>>>group would devote more of their resources to their own effort but why not
>>>piggyback? Share the work and the cost, and possibly produce wider
>>>benefits.
>>>Nora
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>_________________________________________________________________
>>Check out the coupons and bargains on MSN Offers! http://youroffers.msn.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
>>Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Apr 28, 2004, at 5:01 AM, Bruce & Nora Mai wrote:

> In other words, instead of marketing as individual cons, start using
> each
> other’s sources and promote Costume-Con as a recurring event.

I’ve uploaded my CC26 flyer updates.
http://www.cc26.info/Posters/CC26.Fliers.pdf
(warning… adding the 4-up layouts kicked it to 3.5mb, so it’s going
to take a bit to download)

There are a few color changes (black-outlined gray text in the headline
for better contrast when printed in b/w).

There are several fliers that focus on the history and continuity of
Costume-Con, and all fliers emphasize this is Costume-Con ###26###
we’re bidding for. We usually bring copies of one focused and one
general flier to a convention, and carry a pocketful of the
quarter-pages to give out when we give out ribbons.

Last page is the cover-letter for our hotel/organization resume.

—
andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen – http://www.bovil.com/
San Jose, CA – ’72 R75/5 ’86 R100 (mine) – ’92 K75sa ’03 R1150R
(Kevin’s)
“It’s not pink, it’s peach-colored. Pink is tacky.”
–Manfred Pfirsich Marie Rommel

2nd most important safety device on my bike: the one beneath my right
hand
Most important safety device on my bike: the one inside my helmet

Hi, folks!

You may get this message more than once – I’ll try not to spam too many
times, but I’m trying to get the word out.

This is our first official announcement: We’re moving!

On May 17, 2004 we settle on our new house. Please revise your pointers
as follows:

Dan, Betsy, Erin and Katie Delaney
Hawkeswood House
13213 D’Angelo Drive
Bowie, MD 20720-4727
301-464-1511 (h)
301-922-1865 (w- Betsy)
703-428-4795 (w- Dan)

Our PO Box address will also change soon, but I don’t have the info yet.

The majority of our stuff moves in on 5/21 (courtesy of Beltway Movers).

Anyone with time to spare for un/packing assistance will be received
gratefully. We shouldn’t need moving help this time. We think…

Thanks!

Betsy
—
—
Betsy R. Delaney
Web Mistress at large

************************************************************************
http://www.WebInvent.com/ * http://www.hawkeswood.com/
http://www.Costume-Con.org/ * http://www.sickpups.org/
http://www.SchoolWithoutWalls.org/
************************************************************************

I’m scrambling now, after I receive this today. I’m still hoping we can
work something out:

Dear Mr. Mai:

Thank you for your interest in securing space for “Costume Con 25” at the
Holiday Inn Southwest & Viking Conference Center in March of 2007. We all
certainly appreciate the opportunity to do so.

After our initial meetings, we determined that the Holiday Inn Southwest
would be able to accommodate your group based on number of guest rooms
required and the amount of meeting space needed. After reviewing the sample
contract, we have determined that we will not be able to accommodate
“Costume Con 25”. There were several contract issues that the Holiday Inn
Southwest cannot fulfill, such as 24 hour restaurant/room service, amount of
power required in the main ballroom, party and non-party floors, dress code
for Sunday Brunch, 24 hour maintenance personnel on site, ability to control
the price and stocking of Coca Cola’s soda machines, congregating in
corridors, plus a few other minor points. The “ConSuite” would not be
available for Sunday due to the Sunday Brunch Buffet that needs to be set in
that room.

Again, all of us here at the Holiday Inn Southwest appreciate the
opportunity. I would certainly assist in helping you locate another
facility in St. Louis if you would like. If you have any questions, please
do not hesitate to contact me or my General Manager, Bill Banmiller at
314-821-6600.

On May 11, 2004, at 4:51 PM, Bruce & Nora Mai wrote:

> There were several contract issues that the Holiday Inn
> Southwest cannot fulfill, such as 24 hour restaurant/room service

Negotiable. Late restaurant hours and room service may be sufficient.

> amount of power required in the main ballroom

Probably not negotiable, but review with your tech crew; they may offer
a revision. On the other hand, we saw what a blown circuit breaker did
at ChiCon 2k.

> party and non-party floors

Probably negotiable; CC doesn’t usually have room parties outside the
ConSuite, but physical blocking of convention members would be very
valuable anyway.

> dress code for Sunday Brunch

Bullshit. Negotiable, though, if regular restaurant service is
available at full staffing levels too.

> 24 hour maintenance personnel on site

Negotiable, but only so far. Electrician on site while tech is set up
and during the shows is necessary. 24 hour maintenance on call with a
30 minute response time, including a backup electrician in case the
on-site electrician has a heart attack. Penalties for late response.
Kevin can tell you about hotwiring the Santa Clara Marriott at CC12
because one of their electricians was in the hospital and the other was
out of town.

> ability to control the price and stocking of Coca Cola’s soda machines

Negotiable. Price isn’t probably within your reach, but stocking could
be. Ask them to take the stocking request to their Coca Cola
distributor to sign off on.

> congregating in corridors, plus a few other minor points.

Not negotiable; include when talking about the physical blocking
request.

> The “ConSuite” would not be available for Sunday due to the Sunday
> Brunch Buffet that needs to be set in that room.

Not negotiable, assuming there isn’t a different suitable room
available. Are they only considering ballroom space? Is there a
boardroom or suite that would work?

You’ve still got talking points, so it could still be a go. Power,
consuite, and physical blocking could all be deal-killers, though.

—
andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen
http://www.irlm.org/ – mailto:webmaster@irlm.org
“Anybody who takes this seriously deserves to”
— Donna Barr

Dear Bruce –
Obviously some of their concerns could have been negotiated away e.g.
the 24 hour restaurant/room service or the coke machines, but isn’t it
good to know that they couldn’t give you the power you need, or the con
suite, or the ability to “gather”, now instead of at the con? I’m sorry
that your first choice of hotels didn’t work out, but you have shown why
something like the draft contract is so important for conventions such
as Costume Con..

Marty

Bruce & Nora Mai wrote:

>I’m scrambling now, after I receive this today. I’m still hoping we can
>work something out:
>

At 06:51 PM 5/11/2004 -0500, you wrote:

>I’m scrambling now, after I receive this today. I’m still hoping we can
>work something out.

Bruce, are there any other suitable hotels in the area? Sounds like you
need a backup plan.

–Karen

>Bruce:

Andy wrote: “Power, consuite, and physical blocking could all be
deal-killers, though.”

I agree. Painful as it is to consider right now, it is better to find out
about what the hotel really has to offer before you get too far down the road.

How well you can do the masquerades, having a con suite on Sunday, and such
are all things that your members are going to remember a long time. If they
go wrong, you get the blame. Things like coke machines not working are seen
as the hotel’s problem and less the fault of the con.

Dave Doering

In a message dated 5/11/2004 6:50:51 PM Central Daylight Time,
casamai@sbcglobal.net writes:

> I’m scrambling now, after I receive this today. I’m still hoping we can
> work something out:

Bruce,
That’s falls into my “Oh cr-p” category. The first hotel we had lined
up for CC21 told us that they couldn’t hold the ballrooms for more than a day,
plus the airport limo was $25 or so, one way, if it was there!
Good luck!
Henry

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I was looking at Noreascon’s membership installment plan, which they
say has proven popular (no surprise with memberships running $180.00
right now).

Although our <$100 memberships aren’t as large as WorldCon’s, what is
everyone’s opinion on offering a CC installment plan? Would this
attract more memberships?

Or is it just another hassle?

Dave Doering

I believe we are back on track now — at least until we can acutally sit
down with the Sales Manager and see if we can work out an arrangement, but a
backup plan is in order….

Bruce

In a message dated 5/17/2004 9:06:27 PM Central Daylight Time,
dave@techvoice.com writes:

> what is
> everyone’s opinion on offering a CC installment plan?

Dave,
I think we were asked if we, meaning CC21, would do that. We said
sure. We didn’t advertise it, but if someone asked, we would. We thought money is
money. There are some people, like myself, who get lucky and manage to scrape
the money together to go to CC.
One other thing that we considered was enabling membership payment via
PayPal. I can’t remember why we didn’t do it, but we didn’t.
Henry

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 5/17/2004 9:59:50 PM Central Daylight Time,
casamai@sbcglobal.net writes:

> I believe we are back on track now

Bruce,
Yippee for your CC!
Henry

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

At 08:59 PM 5/17/2004, you wrote:

>I was looking at Noreascon’s membership installment plan, which they
>say has proven popular (no surprise with memberships running $180.00
>right now).
>
>Although our <$100 memberships aren’t as large as WorldCon’s, what is
>everyone’s opinion on offering a CC installment plan? Would this
>attract more memberships?
>
>Or is it just another hassle?

I don’t know that we really need to worry about this unless you’re getting
requests or rumors that people can’t afford the rate at one time. If we
start getting over $100 per membership, it might be in order. Otherwise I
think it is a hassle. (and we’re fans of the concept for Worldcon though we
don’t use it ourselves. )

P&S

>Dave Doering

“Those Who Fail To Learn History
Are Doomed to Repeat It;
Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly —
Why They Are Simply Doomed.

Achemdro’hm
“The Illusion of Historical Fact”
— C.Y. 4971

Andromeda

I’ve uploaded a file to the files portion for this group. Please check it
out. It is a starting point only, but a suggestion as to how we might
feasibly generate a multi-convention flyer for CCs.
Pierre has pointed out to us that there are a large number of conventions
upcoming for the Memorial Day weekend that he feels we might want to send
flyers to. But at 3 years out we find it hard to justify the cost of sending
flyers to all of them for the next three years (as well as all the other
cons throughout the year) even if we only sent 20 – 25 per con.
A group flyer would benefit all planned CCs and planned bids as well as
supply general info to a larger audience.
Thoughts?

Nora

Hi, folks!

We’re almost done with the move (and an ugly one it has been, too!).

In the process, I’ve determined that my “betsy” account has got to go
away. I’m being spammed to death.

If you want our new snail contact info, send me email. You can reach
me at brdelaney at hawkeswood, instead of betsy. Repeat the address as a
real email address in email at your peril! Really. I used to include my
address in my .sig. No more. Note that the r isn’t a typo. If you want
me to really see your email fast, use the r.

And watch this space for an announcement of the next ICG Newsletter
collating party, coming soon to a mailing list (and a new house in Bowie
MD) near you!

See some of you at Balticon on Saturday (though I have *no* idea what
I’m going to wear!)

Cheers,

Betsy
—
—
Betsy R. Delaney
Web Mistress at large

************************************************************************
http://www.WebInvent.com/ * http://www.hawkeswood.com/
http://www.Costume-Con.org/ * http://www.sickpups.org/
http://www.SchoolWithoutWalls.org/
************************************************************************

—
—
Betsy R. Delaney
Web Mistress at large

************************************************************************
http://www.WebInvent.com/ * http://www.hawkeswood.com/
http://www.Costume-Con.org/ * http://www.sickpups.org/
http://www.SchoolWithoutWalls.org/
************************************************************************

(sent to CC23-staff, but forwarded here for obvious reasons)

On Jun 7, 2004, at 4:01 PM, David Doering wrote:
> 2. Since Costume Con is ostensibly for _all_ costumers, offering an
> exclusive to the ICG would appear biased against other, just as worthy,
> costuming groups.

Let’s see if I can comment on this in a clear fashion, and in a much
more generic sense…

Member discounts are usually offered when the conference is being put
on by a sponsoring club.

Large national conferences and regional conferences where there aren’t
other organizations putting on complimentary or competing conferences
in the same area often offer discounted fees to their members, and only
their members.

In this case, there are two reasons for offering the discounts. The
first, marketing the conference to club members, is usually the lesser.
The second, marketing club membership to non-member attendees, is
usually the big deal. It’s almost always about increasing club
membership.

Regional and local events often offer “reciprocal member discounts”
where a group of clubs agree to offer discounts to members of all clubs
in the group. This is particularly common when multiple organizations
in an area offer complimentary events.

Again the reasons: Marketing to club members, but again not that big of
a deal. Marketing the club to non-member attendees is still a big deal.
Fostering goodwill with other clubs and marketing to their members is
the really big deal, though. Reciprocal discounts is a way to get
different clubs working together and supporting each others’ events.

So here’s a few examples:
The SCA offers steep member discounts to attend Pennsic war. This is a
tool to increase membership (you can buy a membership on-site for less
than the discount rate) and manage liability (since some of the
insurance is paid for out of membership fees).

Here in the Bay Area, PEERS (a vintage dance group) offers reciprocal
discounts to GBACG members for their events. There are a ton of costume
events around here, and a lot of work goes into ensuring that clubs
support one another’s events.

Costume-Con doesn’t necessarily fit either of these models well.
Costume-Con may be sponsored by a guild chapter, or it may not be.
Costume-Con may take place in a region where lots of clubs organize
costume events, or it may not.

I don’t see ICG member discounts at CC increasing CC attendance. It’s
also much trickier selling ICG memberships at a CC since the
organization is structured geographically (SiW notwithstanding), though
you could just sell Utah memberships to folks who wanted the discount
on-site (but the non-member surcharge would have to be enough to make
this desirable).

There’s also the basic accounting issue. Complicating the registration
fee options is just that, and requires additional cost accounting to
review and adjust the basic price points. Last thing you need right
now, particularly if you’ve already published rates.

I’m with Karen and Ricky on this one. I say give everybody a quality
conference at a low price, and screw the discounts.

—
andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen
http://www.irlm.org/ – mailto:webmaster@irlm.org
“Anybody who takes this seriously deserves to”
— Donna Barr

>Andy wrote: “Costume-Con doesn’t necessarily fit either of these models well.
>Costume-Con may be sponsored by a guild chapter, or it may not be.
>Costume-Con may take place in a region where lots of clubs organize
>costume events, or it may not.”

The contrast between how Costume-Con and Costume College works (both with
discounts and with marketing) is quite similar to a comparison of the
WorldCon with the San Diego Comic-Con.

I have had a very similar discussion about this issue with John Rogers who
heads up the Comic-Con. John’s event far surpasses any other fannish
gathering in size, programming, and impact, even though the WorldCon
purports to be THE event for SF/F fandom. So I asked him why. He thinks
that World Con is so small in comparison because it is poorly run and promoted.

His remedy? Have the same committee run the event year-to-year and host it
in only a few select sites.

This would please dealers, movie studios, and book publishers who would all
welcome such a change (and the professionalism that such a permanent
committee would bring to the event).

As you might imagine, though, fandom is not amenable to letting some type
of WorldCon, Inc. take charge of the event.

In the same way I do not believe that we will have a central “Costume Con,
Inc.” to run the event. Given the volunteer nature of each year’s con-com,
it is a challenge to put together a “quality conference at a low price”.

Andy wrote: “Last thing you need right now, particularly if you’ve already
published rates.”

But not necessarily a bad idea for CC25 or 26 to consider.

>Andy wrote: “I say give everybody a quality conference at a low price…”

Ultimately, this IS the answer to CCs succeeding in the future. Given a
great venue, good competitions, and such, and people will attend. The
challenge for us is how to balance this.

Dave Doering
CC23

I think Comic-Con is something different than just a big-well-run SF con. (although I have not been there.) First off, World-con IS pretty well known, inside fandom, so I don’t think it has a publicity problem. And fans and vendors don’t avoid World-con because it is not well organized. (Well, they still seem to be able to get vendors.) But Comic Con does two things — it manages to tap into media fandom, and it is located in a large metropolitan area. I don’t think Comic-con would be as successful if it were located in Utah, even if it were run the same. I also think the media con in Denver, is larger than Denver’s SF con.

There may be ways to improve World-con, and perhaps make it larger in the process, but I agree that it is not likely to be by the method suggested.

Charles
CC23

—– Original Message —–
From: David Doering
<snip>
His remedy? Have the same committee run the event year-to-year and host it
in only a few select sites.
<snip>

Dave Doering
CC23

View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/

Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT

——————————————————————————
Yahoo! Groups Links

a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/runacc/

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
runacc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

We’re talking pro-run vs. fan-run conventions here, which are two VERY
different animals.

And that on top of one convention staying in one place with committee
continuity from year to year and the other convention changing
cities/countries and committees every year. Has to have an impact.

As a side note, I worked registration for the San Diego Comic-Con in 1973
and 1974, back when they were hard-pressed to draw 300 people, LOL!

–Karen

At 09:39 AM 6/9/2004 -0600, you wrote:

>I think Comic-Con is something different than just a big-well-run SF
>con. (although I have not been there.) First off, World-con IS pretty
>well known, inside fandom, so I don’t think it has a publicity
>problem. And fans and vendors don’t avoid World-con because it is not
>well organized. (Well, they still seem to be able to get vendors.) But
>Comic Con does two things — it manages to tap into media fandom, and it
>is located in a large metropolitan area. I don’t think Comic-con would be
>as successful if it were located in Utah, even if it were run the same. I
>also think the media con in Denver, is larger than Denver’s SF con.
>
>There may be ways to improve World-con, and perhaps make it larger in the
>process, but I agree that it is not likely to be by the method suggested.
>
>Charles
>CC23
> —– Original Message —–
> From: David Doering
> <snip>
> His remedy? Have the same committee run the event year-to-year and host it
> in only a few select sites.
> <snip>
>
> Dave Doering
> CC23
>
>
>
>
>
> View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
>
>——————————————————————————
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/runacc/
>
> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> runacc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

At 08:44 PM 6/8/2004, you wrote:

It should also be noted that most of the SMOFS (which make up a large part
of the Permanent Rotating Worldcon Committee) are utterly opposed to
increasing the size of Worldcon. For them it is philosophical. The large
size of Comic-Con or Dragon-Con is antithetical to their underlying
convention mentality.

Many fans have complained about the cost of membership in a Worldcon. Not
long ago, Kevin Standlee noted that if Worldcon could increase its
membership to just 10,000, the same facilities we use now would be able to
handle the membership and membership cost could drop by 33-50%. He was
practically howled off the SMOF list for the temerity.

Pierre

>I have had a very similar discussion about this issue with John Rogers who
>heads up the Comic-Con. John’s event far surpasses any other fannish
>gathering in size, programming, and impact, even though the WorldCon
>purports to be THE event for SF/F fandom. So I asked him why. He thinks
>that World Con is so small in comparison because it is poorly run and
>promoted.
>
>His remedy? Have the same committee run the event year-to-year and host it
>in only a few select sites.
>
>This would please dealers, movie studios, and book publishers who would all
>welcome such a change (and the professionalism that such a permanent
>committee would bring to the event).
>
>As you might imagine, though, fandom is not amenable to letting some type
>of WorldCon, Inc. take charge of the event.

“Those Who Fail To Learn History
Are Doomed to Repeat It;
Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly —
Why They Are Simply Doomed.

Achemdro’hm
“The Illusion of Historical Fact”
— C.Y. 4971

Andromeda

>Pierre wrote: “…to increasing the size of Worldcon. For them it is
>philosophical.”

Exactly my point. The decision has been made to keep the Con as it is,
rather than morph it into something other. Hence Costume College is what it
is and Costume Con is something different.

We do NOT want a permanent CC, Inc. controlling the event nor do we want to
fix it to one city.

Given that, we face in microcosm the problem the WorldCon faces–being too
small to attract the better hotels/convention centers–hence having to go
to suburban cities which are less populated with costumers, thus having
less of a budget to try to build the event, etc.

Dave D.

At 05:18 PM 6/9/2004 -0500, you wrote:

>Not long ago, Kevin Standlee noted that if Worldcon could increase its
>membership to just 10,000, the same facilities we use now would be able to
>handle the membership and membership cost could drop by 33-50%. He was
>practically howled off the SMOF list for the temerity.

Is this where I mention that running a 10,000+ person event has its own
peculiar set of logistical problems, even though it might occupy the same
facilities? I’ve never been to Dragoncon, but have experienced the San
Diego Comic Con as it first started to experience explosive growth, the
1984 Worldcon in Los Angeles, and a whole bunch of STAR TREK and STAR WARS
conventions in the ’70’s that totally overwhelmed their facilities.

I also don’t see why we are discussing this here, as I strongly doubt
Costume-Con will EVER reach that size due to its specialized nature and
other factors (geographic rotation and new committee each year) we have
discussed here and on the CC-23 list. I would be thrilled to see consistent
attendance of 500 at CC, let alone 1,000 or more.

Yes, Costume-Con, like many fannish conventions, takes a lot of function
space in proportion to its membership size. That’s the nature of the beast,
and something each committee wrestles with each year. But its small size
gives it a personalized feel and a sense of community (and being able to
know everyone) that you would not get with a HUGE convention.

–Karen

On Jun 10, 2004, at 8:24 AM, Ricky & Karen Dick wrote:

> I also don’t see why we are discussing this here, as I strongly doubt
> Costume-Con will EVER reach that size due to its specialized nature and
> other factors (geographic rotation and new committee each year) we have
> discussed here and on the CC-23 list. I would be thrilled to see
> consistent
> attendance of 500 at CC, let alone 1,000 or more.

I don’t think anybody is worried about the 10k issue specifically.

I’m interested in examining the decisions that different cons made to
be/remain the size they are, and what they gained or lost by those
decisions.

—
andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen – http://www.bovil.com/
San Jose, CA – ’72 R75/5 ’86 R100 (mine) – ’92 K75sa ’03 R1150R
(Kevin’s)
…remaining .sig trimmed for better message/.sig ratio

Andrew T Trembley wrote:
<snip>

>I’m interested in examining the decisions that different cons made to
>be/remain the size they are, and what they gained or lost by those
>decisions.
>
>I don’t think anybody is worried about the 10k issue specifically.
>

Because Yahoo Groups was playing games again, I missed out on the
beginning of this discussion, but I think that the problem is that
beyond a certain size you cannot run a successful convention only with
volunteer help working on a part time basis. That means that at some
point someone has to make the decision to make the convention a
commercial venture so that it can have at least a core staff of full
time paid workers. Once that decision is made you have a “whole ‘nother
animal” and the most practical way to do this is with a For Profit
(anathema to most fans) corporation. Once you decide that, the
character of the event changes (not always for the worst.)

I have no idea what that magic size is, but I know that the Baltimore
Worldcon in 1998 had about 5,000 people. I was in charge of
“Facilities” (hotels & convention center) with the volunteer assistance
of two lawyers, one who works for the IRS and the other who is a
Baltimore real estate lawyer, and three of the most competent young
ladies that I have ever known. I also know that I personally lost in
excess of $20,000 a year in commercial business because of the time
that I had to spend on the Worldcon Facilities activities in 1997 and
1998. If you think that I’d be willing to do that again, the answer is
not unless I win a majorly big lottery, or a con were willing to pay me
at least that amount plus my expenses. Multiply that by the various
other major activities (programming, registration, publications etc.)
and you can see you are beginning to talk really large amounts of money
to do a large con professionally and successfully.

On the other hand, I’ve already volunteered to do Facilities for a
Costume Con that will probably top out at 500 people, and I really don’t
expect that it will cost me 1/20th of what BucCONeer did. I handled
facilities for Balticon for about 10 years, and after the first year
spent establishing a good working relationship with the hotel I don’t
think that I spent over about 30 or 40 hours a year total , and a good
part of that was beating up on the con committee to get me their
information in a timely manner. That was for a 1,500-1,800 person
convention, held in a single hotel in the same city each year.

my $0.02

Marty

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 6/10/2004 6:16:42 PM Central Daylight Time,
attrembl@bovil.com writes:

> I’m interested in examining the decisions that different cons made to
> be/remain the size they are, and what they gained or lost by those
> decisions.

Andy,
Some of the cons I have either seen or gone to have either plateaued
and just stayed there, or made a decision to be a certain size, which I view as
silly. Some others have not tried hard enough to be bigger. I wish I had
worked harder at making CC21 bigger. Some cons have a good reputation, like a
WorldCom in L.A. They always have a larger than normal for a WorldCom attendance.
Henry

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

At 10:24 AM 6/10/2004, you wrote:

>I also don’t see why we are discussing this here, as I strongly doubt
>Costume-Con will EVER reach that size due to its specialized nature and
>other factors (geographic rotation and new committee each year) we have
>discussed here and on the CC-23 list. I would be thrilled to see consistent
>attendance of 500 at CC, let alone 1,000 or more.

Actually, my point was only in reference to the “suggestion” from the
Comic-Con person that a paid staff and limited sites would help us keep
numbers up. Mostly it was an anecdote on this general topic.

I think increasing the size of CCis a good thing, up to about 600 or so.
The near 900 @ CC8 was impressive, but a bit overwhelming. I remember being
a bit perturbed at not recognizing a majority of the membership.

I think we should learn things from the marketing angle that have resulted
in very populous CCs, though watch ourselves that we’re not overwhelmed.

Pierre

>Yes, Costume-Con, like many fannish conventions, takes a lot of function
>space in proportion to its membership size. That’s the nature of the beast,
>and something each committee wrestles with each year. But its small size
>gives it a personalized feel and a sense of community (and being able to
>know everyone) that you would not get with a HUGE convention.
>
>–Karen

“Those Who Fail To Learn History
Are Doomed to Repeat It;
Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly —
Why They Are Simply Doomed.

Achemdro’hm
“The Illusion of Historical Fact”
— C.Y. 4971

Andromeda

At 03:46 PM 6/11/2004 -0500, you wrote:

>I think increasing the size of CCis a good thing, up to about 600 or so.

The 500 and 600 person CC’s seem to be less financial wear and tear on
their committees, which would be a Good Thing.

>The near 900 @ CC8 was impressive, but a bit overwhelming. I remember being
>a bit perturbed at not recognizing a majority of the membership.

I didn’t mind seeing the new faces so much, but the hotel was chosen on the
basis of CC-6’s membership 2 years prior, and was completely overwhelmed by
the influx of so many additonal people. If memory serves me, they
eventually had to close registration because the panel rooms were so badly
overcrowded.

Although CC-8 wasn’t as bad as the first STAR TREK convention I went to
(1973). They were expecting 1500 people and got 10,000. Talk about a
logistics nightmare!

>I think we should learn things from the marketing angle that have resulted
>in very populous CCs, though watch ourselves that we’re not overwhelmed.

Another factor may be that the very populous cons are held in very populous
states / cities, so there are more interested people to draw from. And
fannish costumers have always seemed to be more active on both coasts vs.
the MidWest, even before Costume-Con was formed, especially with media
recreation cotumes. The new fad would hit (Battlestar Galactica uniforms,
for example), and the Californians would have copies of it within weeks,
and the Boston and Baltimore crowd would have it 6 months later…and then
2 years later, it would finally trickle down to the center of the country.

–Karen

There’s definitely something to be said for a good marketing campaign,
though. Unfortunately, we also have negative examples (Costume-Cons who
bailed out early on publicity and paid a heavy price in attendance numbers.)

All this theory is interesting discussion, but frankly, it’s a little ahead
of the game. Unless we begin promoting CC on a national level, attendance
is NOT going to get any better. Past CC attendance proves that.

Taking the initiative, Nora proposed a national flyer and posted it to the
Yahoo files more than three weeks ago. We’re both a bit puzzled by the lack
of ANY response by this list. C’mon folks, let’s stay stay focused.
Costume-Con is never going to GET any bigger if you don’t promote it. And I
don’t mean each of our cons doing it seperately.

If no one wants to do the work, then we’d better admit that
upfront and lower our expectations.

Bruce

As an addition to that, I continue to lament the lack of heavy promotion
and push for the Future Fashion Folio. This publication could be a
major marketing tool, but continues to be hampered by lack of support
WITHIN the current ICG community, much less getting the word out in a
timely manner to other groups.

Some people have stated in print that they do not approve of the way the
Folio has been evolving over the past few years. I have a number of
comments regarding that, but my bottom line is this: TOO BAD. If we
persist in old and inflexible notions about what “future fashions” look
like, we will drive away large sources of new people. Future fashion
isn’t just next century; it’s next month, next year. If we don’t intend
to adapt to make our venues appealing to more people, we should just
admit it and accept that we’re another marginalized geek clique. I
don’t accept it, and I will continue to fight that image.

Karen

Bruce & Nora Mai wrote:

> All this theory is interesting discussion, but frankly, it’s a little
> ahead
> of the game. Unless we begin promoting CC on a national level, attendance
> is NOT going to get any better. Past CC attendance proves that.
>
> Taking the initiative, Nora proposed a national flyer and posted it to the
> Yahoo files more than three weeks ago. We’re both a bit puzzled by
> the lack
> of ANY response by this list. C’mon folks, let’s stay stay focused.
> Costume-Con is never going to GET any bigger if you don’t promote it.
> And I
> don’t mean each of our cons doing it seperately.
>
> If no one wants to do the work, then we’d better admit that
> upfront and lower our expectations.
>
> Bruce
>

Bruce & Nora,
I’m sorry I missed that you posted the flyer. I will look at it this
morning.
I agree on your sentiment about attendance at CC’s. It does stay about
the same amount every year, within a certain variance. I believe that one of
the concepts of having a convention solely about costuming is to attract new
people and new ideas. The only way we are going to do that is by increasing the
number of people showing up. I believe that all the CC’s lined up in the
future could easily handle even 50 more people showing up. Of course, 100 would be
great, but even 50 is good.
Henry

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 6/13/2004 5:43:54 PM Central Daylight Time,
axejudge@accessus.net writes:

> If we
> persist in old and inflexible notions about what “future fashions” look
> like, we will drive away large sources of new people.

Hear, Hear! Well put, Karen!

When I first got into the costuming crowd, I said that its biggest lesson is
“The world is malleable. Things can be changed.” Admittedly, I am still new on
the scene, but I still love doing things that people don’t think about.

Henry

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Jun 13, 2004, at 2:44 PM, Bruce & Nora Mai wrote:

> Taking the initiative, Nora proposed a national flyer and posted it to
> the
> Yahoo files more than three weeks ago. We’re both a bit puzzled by
> the lack
> of ANY response by this list. C’mon folks, let’s stay stay focused.
> Costume-Con is never going to GET any bigger if you don’t promote it.
> And I
> don’t mean each of our cons doing it seperately.

We’ve been passing out our “Mark Your Calendar” flyer that lists info
for CC23, CC24, CC25 and our proposed date for CC26 at every convention
we go to.

—
andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen
http://www.irlm.org/ – mailto:webmaster@irlm.org
“Anybody who takes this seriously deserves to”
— Donna Barr

I have downloaded it and looked it over. The basic form is good. A bunch of
fill-in-the-spot spots, but the basic layout is good.

Andy, have you made a tweaked up version?

Henry

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Jun 13, 2004, at 3:43 PM, Karen Heim wrote:

> As an addition to that, I continue to lament the lack of heavy
> promotion
> and push for the Future Fashion Folio. This publication could be a
> major marketing tool, but continues to be hampered by lack of support
> WITHIN the current ICG community, much less getting the word out in a
> timely manner to other groups.

We are where we are right now, but I personally would like to see the
Des Moines folio directors ramping up now to accept entries immediately
after the Utah folio entry period closes. It would be nice to include
in the Utah folio information on entering in the Des Moines contest. I
would like to see the Des Moines folio directors at Utah soliciting
entries in person, and at any other conventions afterwards they can
afford to make it to.

Folio release and CC are both times that there’s a lot of excitement
about the design competition, and may be a rich time to get new
entries.

We also need releases that make the folio and designs within easier to
use for marketing.

‘course, this has been said before and there’s every chance it’s
already in the works.

—
andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen – http://www.bovil.com/
San Jose, CA – ’72 R75/5 ’86 R100 (mine) – ’92 K75sa ’03 R1150R
(Kevin’s)
…remaining .sig trimmed for better message/.sig ratio

Yes, and it has been pointed out that in doing FFF, that you are working with artists — Send the information out too early, and it gets lost, send it out too late, and there will not be enough time. So it turns out that the trick is to send out info early, send a reminder months before the dead-line, and then again, with enough weeks for the artists to finish. It is the process of matching the muse, with deadlines.

And in working with FFF for CC-23, it was again realized that there can be a number of issues involved, with artist’s protections, and publication, on-line, and in-print.

Charles

—– Original Message —–
From: Andrew T Trembley
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: PROMOTION!! (was Re: [runacc] ICG Discount)

On Jun 13, 2004, at 3:43 PM, Karen Heim wrote:
> As an addition to that, I continue to lament the lack of heavy
> promotion
> and push for the Future Fashion Folio. This publication could be a
> major marketing tool, but continues to be hampered by lack of support
> WITHIN the current ICG community, much less getting the word out in a
> timely manner to other groups.

We are where we are right now, but I personally would like to see the
Des Moines folio directors ramping up now to accept entries immediately
after the Utah folio entry period closes. It would be nice to include
in the Utah folio information on entering in the Des Moines contest. I
would like to see the Des Moines folio directors at Utah soliciting
entries in person, and at any other conventions afterwards they can
afford to make it to.

Folio release and CC are both times that there’s a lot of excitement
about the design competition, and may be a rich time to get new
entries.

We also need releases that make the folio and designs within easier to
use for marketing.

‘course, this has been said before and there’s every chance it’s
already in the works.

—
andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen – http://www.bovil.com/
San Jose, CA – ’72 R75/5 ’86 R100 (mine) – ’92 K75sa ’03 R1150R
(Kevin’s)
…remaining .sig trimmed for better message/.sig ratio

View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/

Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT

——————————————————————————
Yahoo! Groups Links

a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/runacc/

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
runacc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

At 07:36 PM 6/14/2004, you wrote:

>On Jun 13, 2004, at 3:43 PM, Karen Heim wrote:
> > As an addition to that, I continue to lament the lack of heavy
> > promotion
> > and push for the Future Fashion Folio. This publication could be a
> > major marketing tool, but continues to be hampered by lack of support
> > WITHIN the current ICG community, much less getting the word out in a
> > timely manner to other groups.
>
>We are where we are right now, but I personally would like to see the
>Des Moines folio directors ramping up now to accept entries immediately
>after the Utah folio entry period closes. It would be nice to include
>in the Utah folio information on entering in the Des Moines contest. I
>would like to see the Des Moines folio directors at Utah soliciting
>entries in person, and at any other conventions afterwards they can
>afford to make it to.

Actually, Andy, the CC24 folio rules have already been published. We can
take designs now, but obviously won’t be heavily promoting until after the
cc23’s folio ceases to accept entries. Sandy is the folio director for 24
and is planning some things for 23.

Pierre

>Folio release and CC are both times that there’s a lot of excitement
>about the design competition, and may be a rich time to get new
>entries.
>
>We also need releases that make the folio and designs within easier to
>use for marketing.
>
>’course, this has been said before and there’s every chance it’s
>already in the works.
>
>–
>andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen – http://www.bovil.com/
>San Jose, CA – ’72 R75/5 ’86 R100 (mine) – ’92 K75sa ’03 R1150R
>(Kevin’s)

“Those Who Fail To Learn History
Are Doomed to Repeat It;
Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly —
Why They Are Simply Doomed.

Achemdro’hm
“The Illusion of Historical Fact”
— C.Y. 4971

Andromeda