runacc.costume-con.org

For the record, I’m actually planning on arriving Wednesday. This Cheesehead
aint never been farther south than St. Louis and Champaign, Illinois!
Henry

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Friday morning, breakfast or after the ICG meeting. Either one is fine.
Sunday is jam-packed, but Monday breakfast is possible.

Elaine

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I’m flying, and won’t arrive until about 10 p.m. on Thurs.

Elaine

>
>How many of us are arriving Thursday night? An informal chat session was
>really what I had in mind, nothing “programmed” or official.
>
>I don’t know what time we’ll be getting in to the hotel – we’re probably
>stopping somewhere around Raleigh/Durham on the way down, so the days
>are broken into two three-hundred mile chunks.
>

_________________________________________________________________
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Greetings,

Even though CC-24 is still two years off we are busy making plans. I
would very much like to part of a get together. Words of wisdom from
those who’ve been there done that is always valuable. I arrive late
Friday morning and leave Monday evening. Monday breakfast would work
well for me. However, I plan to be a sponge all weekend soaking up
all I can so please share your thoughts and ideas with me anytime.

Sallie Abba
Co-Chair CC-24

Bobby and I are driving down but don’t expect to arrive before Friday
afternoon, and we need to leave shortly after breakfast on Monday. That
said, I will be bringing CDs with an annotated version of the Draft
Costume Con hotel contract with me for anyone who wants them (only 11
month late).

Marty

On Mar 11, 2004, at 9:57 AM, Elaine Mami wrote:

> I’m flying, and won’t arrive until about 10 p.m. on Thurs.

Flying, hit the airport around 8:30 thursday

andy

—
andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen – http://www.bovil.com/
San Jose, CA – ’72 R75/5 ’86 R100 (mine) – ’92 K75sa ’03 R1150R
(Kevin’s)
“It’s not pink, it’s peach-colored. Pink is tacky.”
–Manfred Pfirsich Marie Rommel

2nd most important safety device on my bike: the one beneath my right
hand
Most important safety device on my bike: the one inside my helmet

Thanks, Marty! I should be able to put your stuff up on the site shortly
after the con, if not before I leave (with my handy, dandy laptop),
making it available to anyone on this list at the very least.

How’s dinner time Friday (brown bag or otherwise) prior to the Friday
Night Social grab people? Or we could try to make several “dates” and
see what develops from that…

If we can’t all meet, I would still like to make sure that the writing
progresses (it hasn’t) so that we can release the document to the public
this spring/summer. This is a VERY USEFUL mailing list, but it isn’t
public, and I’d like to see our work get out there.

If members of the list are willing to take on various sections of the
document for writing, that would make the process easier. I would still
compile it, and make it sound consistent throughout.

Any volunteers? Buehler?

Cheers,

Betsy

martingear wrote:

> Bobby and I are driving down but don’t expect to arrive before Friday
> afternoon, and we need to leave shortly after breakfast on Monday. That
> said, I will be bringing CDs with an annotated version of the Draft
> Costume Con hotel contract with me for anyone who wants them (only 11
> month late).
>
> Marty
>
>
>
>
> View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

—
—
Betsy R. Delaney
Web Mistress at large

************************************************************************
http://www.WebInvent.com/ * http://www.hawkeswood.com/
http://www.Costume-Con.org/ * http://www.sickpups.org/
http://www.SchoolWithoutWalls.org/
************************************************************************

In a message dated 3/11/2004 1:25:31 PM Central Standard Time,
gsabba@worldnet.att.net writes:

>
> Even though CC-24 is still two years off we are busy making plans.

Sallie,
You will be suprised how fast those years will fly!
Henry W. Osier,
Co-Chair, CC21

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 3/11/2004 1:47:42 PM Central Standard Time,
MartinGear@comcast.net writes:

> I will be bringing CDs with an annotated version of the Draft
> Costume Con hotel contract with me for anyone who wants them (only 11
> month late).

Marty,
Put me down for one!
Henry W. Osier,
Co-Chair, CC21

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Friday dinner sound possible.

Byron

—– Original Message —–
From: “Betsy Delaney” <betsy@hawkeswood.com>
To: <runacc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 4:16 PM
Subject: Re: [runacc] RE: Meeting at CC-22

> Thanks, Marty! I should be able to put your stuff up on the site shortly
> after the con, if not before I leave (with my handy, dandy laptop),
> making it available to anyone on this list at the very least.
>
> How’s dinner time Friday (brown bag or otherwise) prior to the Friday
> Night Social grab people? Or we could try to make several “dates” and
> see what develops from that…
>
> If we can’t all meet, I would still like to make sure that the writing
> progresses (it hasn’t) so that we can release the document to the public
> this spring/summer. This is a VERY USEFUL mailing list, but it isn’t
> public, and I’d like to see our work get out there.
>
> If members of the list are willing to take on various sections of the
> document for writing, that would make the process easier. I would still
> compile it, and make it sound consistent throughout.
>
> Any volunteers? Buehler?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Betsy
>
> martingear wrote:
> > Bobby and I are driving down but don’t expect to arrive before Friday
> > afternoon, and we need to leave shortly after breakfast on Monday. That
> > said, I will be bringing CDs with an annotated version of the Draft
> > Costume Con hotel contract with me for anyone who wants them (only 11
> > month late).
> >
> > Marty

Amen.

Trudy

>From: henryosier@cs.com
>Reply-To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
>To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [runacc] RE: Meeting at CC-22
>Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 17:29:52 EST
>
>In a message dated 3/11/2004 1:25:31 PM Central Standard Time,
>gsabba@worldnet.att.net writes:
> >
> > Even though CC-24 is still two years off we are busy making plans.
>Sallie,
> You will be suprised how fast those years will fly!
>Henry W. Osier,
>Co-Chair, CC21
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

_________________________________________________________________
Learn how to help protect your privacy and prevent fraud online at Tech
Hacks & Scams. http://special.msn.com/msnbc/techsafety.armx

In a message dated 3/11/2004 7:21:20 PM Central Standard Time,
bconnel1@nycap.rr.com writes:

> Friday dinner sound possible.

I’ll second that menu!
Henry

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sounds good to me, too.

Elaine

> > Friday dinner sound possible.
>I’ll second that menu!

_________________________________________________________________
Frustrated with dial-up? Lightning-fast Internet access for as low as
$29.95/month. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200360ave/direct/01/

Don’t know exactly when we’ll be available but we arrive Thursday evening
and leave Tuesday Morning. We’ll try and make whatever time is convenient
for everybody else.

Nora

—– Original Message —–
From: “Elaine Mami” <ecmami@hotmail.com>
To: <runacc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 2:05 PM
Subject: Re: [runacc] RE: Meeting at CC-22

>
>
> Sounds good to me, too.
>
> Elaine
>
> > > Friday dinner sound possible.
> >I’ll second that menu!
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Frustrated with dial-up? Lightning-fast Internet access for as low as
> $29.95/month. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200360ave/direct/01/
>
>
>
> View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

I posted the following to the ICG-D list in response to Carole’s remarks;
any thoughts here?

Charging to enter the Folio would cost us designers; after all we don’t
charge to enter any of the other masquerades.
The only way to save money on the Folio is in format. I anticipate having to
go to a CD format at some point, and offering a hard copy at an additional
cost to the attendee. I don’t entirely like this idea ’cause I like having a
hard copy to thumb through as much as anyone, but…
Pro:
1. CDs are cheaper to produce & mail.
2. Can store more info, including color!
3. People can print off what they need; individual designs or the entire
thing if they choose.
4. Offering hard-copy at additional cost [outside of membership] would cover
additional cost of producing it.
Cons:
1. Not everyone has computer access in their home. And even if you can
access another computer (such as work or library) they may not have a CD
drive or allow you to use it. [I feel obligated to point out that almost
everyone knows someone with a computer, though].
2. Many people prefer hard-copy, myself included.
Discussion, anyone?

Nora

—– Original Message —–
From: “Carole Parker” <mscip@inreach.com>
Subject: Re: [ICG-D] FFF
> I agree that the FFF is important. Something to consider as a
> possibility is to have an “entry fee” for the FFF that would be enough
> to cover the anticipated printing costs. Maybe something like $3-5?
> Would that be enough? I do not honestly think we could go over $10
> without losing too many people and/or designs, though.
>
> Just playing around with the idea. Either that, or we could put a
> paragraph on the entry form that says that the FFF costs so much $$$ to
> print, and would you please make a donation? That way, the people who
> are just squeaking by could enter, and those doing well could send in a
> contribution. Maybe get a tax deduction for anything over $X?

Nora, and all,
The CD idea does have its benefits. The first one that springs to mind
is that it is cheaper. For some reason, the cost of printing them and mailing
them is still stuck in my head. I know that CD blanks are dirt cheap. And
mailing them would also be cheaper. The color drawing element would be
interesting, as well.
A nominal fee of, say, one dollar per entry, would help defer the cost
of producing the folio in any format. Again, I remember the shock of hearing
from Sandy & Pierre the cost of producing ours. Not griping about the cost, I
just wish some had told me really early on to expect it.
I agree with you about your computer access comment. I am always
suprised when my little chug-chug machine does what it supposed to do. Everyone
knows someone with a computer, but going over to someone else’s house just to
cruise a CD can be an inconvenience to the someone else.
The advantage of the hard copy is that you can look at it where and
when you want to do so. You really can’t go out for a relaxing picnic and
casually glance through a CD and write in the margins.
I’d say, to cut costs, put the folio out on CD primarily, with a hard
copy available upon request. That way, a smaller number of Folios would need
to be printed.

Henry W. Osier,
Co-Chair, CC21

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I am cross-posting this because this group needs to consider this (and some
other ideas being raised on ICG-D).

Byron

—– Original Message —–
From: “Carole Parker” <mscip@inreach.com>
To: <ICG-D@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2004 2:08 AM
Subject: Re: [ICG-D] FFF

> On Thursday, March 11, 2004, at 02:04 PM, Pierre & Sandy Pettinger
> wrote:
>
> > The CC21 folio cost $1300 to print and I had to search for quite
> > awhile to
> > find that good a rate. For awhile it looked like it was going to be
> > $2000.
> > I don’t recall the postage totals since that was split up over time.
> >
> > All that said, I think the Folio is a very important item.
>
> I agree that the FFF is important. Something to consider as a
> possibility is to have an “entry fee” for the FFF that would be enough
> to cover the anticipated printing costs. Maybe something like $3-5?
> Would that be enough? I do not honestly think we could go over $10
> without losing too many people and/or designs, though.
>
> Just playing around with the idea. Either that, or we could put a
> paragraph on the entry form that says that the FFF costs so much $$$ to
> print, and would you please make a donation? That way, the people who
> are just squeaking by could enter, and those doing well could send in a
> contribution. Maybe get a tax deduction for anything over $X?
>
> Until later–
>
> Carole

—– Original Message —–
From: “Bruce & Nora Mai” <casamai@sbcglobal.net>
To: <ICG-D@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2004 8:33 AM
Subject: Re: [ICG-D] FFF

> Charging to enter the Folio would cost us designers; after all we don’t
> charge to enter any of the other masquerades.
> The only way to save money on the Folio is in format. I anticipate having
to
> go to a CD format at some point, and offering a hard copy at an additional
> cost to the attendee. I don’t entirely like this idea ’cause I like having
a
> hard copy to thumb through as much as anyone, but…
> Pro:
> 1. CDs are cheaper to produce & mail.
> 2. Can store more info, including color!
> 3. People can print off what they need; individual designs or the entire
> thing if they choose.
> 4. Offering hard-copy at additional cost [outside of membership] would
cover
> additional cost of producing it.
> Cons:
> 1. Not everyone has computer access in their home. And even if you can
> access another computer (such as work or library) they may not have a CD
> drive or allow you to use it. [I feel obligated to point out that almost
> everyone knows someone with a computer, though].
> 2. Many people prefer hard-copy, myself included.
> Discussion, anyone?
>
> Nora
> —– Original Message —–
> From: “Carole Parker” <mscip@inreach.com>
> Subject: Re: [ICG-D] FFF
> > I agree that the FFF is important. Something to consider as a
> > possibility is to have an “entry fee” for the FFF that would be enough
> > to cover the anticipated printing costs. Maybe something like $3-5?
> > Would that be enough? I do not honestly think we could go over $10
> > without losing too many people and/or designs, though.
> >
> > Just playing around with the idea. Either that, or we could put a
> > paragraph on the entry form that says that the FFF costs so much $$$ to
> > print, and would you please make a donation? That way, the people who
> > are just squeaking by could enter, and those doing well could send in a
> > contribution. Maybe get a tax deduction for anything over $X?
> >
> > Until later–
> >
> > Carole

—– Original Message —–
From: <victoriandiva@aol.com>
To: <ICG-D@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2004 9:06 AM
Subject: Re: [ICG-D] FFF

> In a message dated 3/14/2004 8:41:54 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> casamai@sbcglobal.net writes:
> 1. Not everyone has computer access in their home. And even if you can
> access another computer (such as work or library) they may not have a CD
> drive or allow you to use it. [I feel obligated to point out that almost
> everyone knows someone with a computer, though].
> 2. Many people prefer hard-copy, myself included.
> To counter the cons….
>
> 1. According to the last tech survey I saw (from one of the big tech
> nonprofits – NYSIIA I think?), 65% of American homes have computers. Since
2 out of 3
> homes have this technology, it’s pretty safe to discount the issue of
computer
> access as being an “issue” since if you can afford to costume and go to
> costume cons, you probably have a computer. Whether you like to USE it is
a
> different question, as many don’t, but that shouldn’t be a consideration
in
> considering if the technology is widely and readily available (it is).
>
> 2. Vanity publishing on-line is on the rise. Work out a deal with one of
the
> many e-book vanity publishers who specialize in very limited hardcopy
print
> runs, give everyone a code to use in ordering their copy, and those who
want
> the hardcopy version can pay for it directly to the printer. This shifts
the
> financial burden from those who don’t value the hardcopy as much to those
who do
> want to keep the hardcopy version, which is an equitable solution. You can
> even do pre-orders and use those pre-orders to negotiate a lower rate from
the
> publisher and/or take some of the budget and partially underwrite the
print run,
> which will help keep the costs down to the end purchaser. I believe some
of
> these JIT printers do print in color.
>
> my 2 cents
> -shenlei
>
>
> Shenlei Winkler, Executive Director
> New York City Tea Society
> www.nycteasociety.com
> Service Through Playfulness! tm
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

It’s been up in the air for a while, but unfortunately, no, I won’t be at
CC22 after all.
To the rest of you, have a great time.

Eileen

—–Original Message—–

Eileen,
Thanks for the reply, even if after all this time! See you in
Atlanta?
Henry

Eileen –

I’m sorry to hear that you can’t come. Do you need for us to try and sell
your membership? I will miss seeing you again.

Trudy

>From: “Cliff and Eileen” <capsam@nucleus.com>
>Reply-To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
>To: <runacc@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: RE: [runacc] Information Request
>Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 20:21:17 -0700
>
>It’s been up in the air for a while, but unfortunately, no, I won’t be at
>CC22 after all.
>To the rest of you, have a great time.
>
>Eileen
>
>
>—–Original Message—–
>
>Eileen,
> Thanks for the reply, even if after all this time! See you in
>Atlanta?
> Henry
>

_________________________________________________________________
Find things fast with the new MSN Toolbar � includes FREE pop-up blocking!
http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200414ave/direct/01/

Cliff and I are willing to donate our memberships to the con. If you want
to give them away to someone deserving who otherwise would not be able to
afford to come, you have our blessing.

Eileen

—–Original Message—–
From: Trudy Leonard [mailto:georgialei@hotmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2004 10:58 PM
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [runacc] Information Request

Eileen –

I’m sorry to hear that you can’t come. Do you need for us to try and sell
your membership? I will miss seeing you again.

Trudy

>From: “Cliff and Eileen” <capsam@nucleus.com>
>Reply-To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
>To: <runacc@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: RE: [runacc] Information Request
>Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 20:21:17 -0700
>
>It’s been up in the air for a while, but unfortunately, no, I won’t be at
>CC22 after all.
>To the rest of you, have a great time.
>
>Eileen
>
>
>—–Original Message—–
>
>Eileen,
> Thanks for the reply, even if after all this time! See you in
>Atlanta?
> Henry
>

_________________________________________________________________
Find things fast with the new MSN Toolbar – includes FREE pop-up blocking!
http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200414ave/direct/01/

View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
Yahoo! Groups Links

Thank you, guys. That’s very sweet. I hope you can make it to Utah, and
I’ll see you there.

Trudy

>From: “Cliff and Eileen” <capsam@nucleus.com>
>Reply-To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
>To: <runacc@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: RE: [runacc] Information Request
>Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 19:21:36 -0700
>
>Cliff and I are willing to donate our memberships to the con. If you want
>to give them away to someone deserving who otherwise would not be able to
>afford to come, you have our blessing.
>
>Eileen
>
>—–Original Message—–
>From: Trudy Leonard [mailto:georgialei@hotmail.com]
>Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2004 10:58 PM
>To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: RE: [runacc] Information Request
>
>
>Eileen –
>
>I’m sorry to hear that you can’t come. Do you need for us to try and sell
>your membership? I will miss seeing you again.
>
>Trudy
>
>
> >From: “Cliff and Eileen” <capsam@nucleus.com>
> >Reply-To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> >To: <runacc@yahoogroups.com>
> >Subject: RE: [runacc] Information Request
> >Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 20:21:17 -0700
> >
> >It’s been up in the air for a while, but unfortunately, no, I won’t be at
> >CC22 after all.
> >To the rest of you, have a great time.
> >
> >Eileen
> >
> >
> >—–Original Message—–
> >
> >Eileen,
> > Thanks for the reply, even if after all this time! See you in
> >Atlanta?
> > Henry
> >
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Find things fast with the new MSN Toolbar � includes FREE pop-up blocking!
>http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200414ave/direct/01/
>
>
>
>
>View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
Learn how to help protect your privacy and prevent fraud online at Tech
Hacks & Scams. http://special.msn.com/msnbc/techsafety.armx

At 07:33 AM 3/14/2004, you wrote:

>Charging to enter the Folio would cost us designers; after all we don’t
>charge to enter any of the other masquerades.
>The only way to save money on the Folio is in format. I anticipate having to
>go to a CD format at some point, and offering a hard copy at an additional
>cost to the attendee. I don’t entirely like this idea ’cause I like having a
>hard copy to thumb through as much as anyone, but…
>Pro:
>1. CDs are cheaper to produce & mail.
>2. Can store more info, including color!
>3. People can print off what they need; individual designs or the entire
>thing if they choose.
>4. Offering hard-copy at additional cost [outside of membership] would cover
>additional cost of producing it.
>Cons:
>1. Not everyone has computer access in their home. And even if you can
>access another computer (such as work or library) they may not have a CD
>drive or allow you to use it. [I feel obligated to point out that almost
>everyone knows someone with a computer, though].
>2. Many people prefer hard-copy, myself included.

(note: the word “you” below is a generic “you”)

Another con. What format are you going to put it in? About the only
universal format will be pdfs. How many of us have the software to create
pdfs? Otherwise you need some type of imbedded program to display the pages.

Again, we, as a group, must be assured that the pages are in a sufficient
resolution to print well.

Also, an advantage of printing is once the folio is compiled, you take it
to the printer to do the work. With CD, someone is going to have to produce
a couple of hundred CDs, with cases. To look at least marginally
professional you will also need to print a jewel case insert and possibly
impress an image on the CD to identify it. All this adds to the cost. I
don’t know that you really gain anything in the long run. In my view its
better to budget the folio into your membership rates just like everything
else.

Pierre

>Discussion, anyone?
>
>Nora
>—– Original Message —–
>From: “Carole Parker” <mscip@inreach.com>
>Subject: Re: [ICG-D] FFF
> > I agree that the FFF is important. Something to consider as a
> > possibility is to have an “entry fee” for the FFF that would be enough
> > to cover the anticipated printing costs. Maybe something like $3-5?
> > Would that be enough? I do not honestly think we could go over $10
> > without losing too many people and/or designs, though.
> >
> > Just playing around with the idea. Either that, or we could put a
> > paragraph on the entry form that says that the FFF costs so much $$$ to
> > print, and would you please make a donation? That way, the people who
> > are just squeaking by could enter, and those doing well could send in a
> > contribution. Maybe get a tax deduction for anything over $X?
> >
> > Until later–
> >
> > Carole

“Those Who Fail To Learn History
Are Doomed to Repeat It;
Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly —
Why They Are Simply Doomed.

Achemdro’hm
“The Illusion of Historical Fact”
— C.Y. 4971

Andromeda

More points, comments inserted below;

—– Original Message —–
>From: “Pierre & Sandy Pettinger” <costumrs@radiks.net>
> Another con. What format are you going to put it in? About the only
> universal format will be pdfs.
Jpg’s, rtf’s. Pdf’s are not universal, nor should they be.

>How many of us have the software to create pdfs?
Moot point, bu tmany businesses have it if you have a generous boss who
would let you use their software.

>Otherwise you need some type of imbedded program to display the pages.
Most VCD programs do have embedded encoding to enable play and print
capabilities.

> Again, we, as a group, must be assured that the pages are in a sufficient
> resolution to print well.
Not a problem, a CD can hold very high -res images and in quantity.

> Also, an advantage of printing is once the folio is compiled, you take it
> to the printer to do the work. With CD, someone is going to have to
produce
> a couple of hundred CDs, with cases.
Once created they generally are something that can be inserted and burned
while you do something else, like laundry. Yes it would take some time but
the Folio does in any form.

>To look at least marginally professional you will also need to print a
jewel case >insert and possibly impress an image on the CD to identify it.
All this adds to >the cost. I don’t know that you really gain anything in
the long run. In my >view its better to budget the folio into your
membership rates just like >everything else.
Yeah, but again not too expensive and could be turned into a group activity.
More fun!

Nora

My comments –
Pierre & Sandy Pettinger wrote:

><snip>
>Another con. What format are you going to put it in? About the only
>universal format will be pdfs. How many of us have the software to create
>pdfs? Otherwise you need some type of imbedded program to display the pages.
>

The current version of WordPerfect will save documents as PDFs, and
recently I bought a $20.00 add on for MS Word 2000 that does the same
thing, so this should not be an issue.

><snip>
>
>Also, an advantage of printing is once the folio is compiled, you take it
>to the printer to do the work. With CD, someone is going to have to produce
>a couple of hundred CDs, with cases. To look at least marginally
>professional you will also need to print a jewel case insert and possibly
>impress an image on the CD to identify it. All this adds to the cost. I
>don’t know that you really gain anything in the long run. In my view its
>better to budget the folio into your membership rates just like everything
>else.
>
>

Once you have “camera ready” copy for a printer making a CD is trivial.
I don’t think that one would need to print a jewel case insert or for
that matter provide a jewel case. Name brand CDRs cost $0.30 each in
the quantities one would need. add $0.07 for blank labels, and another
$0.10 for paper envelopes (or $0.15 for tyvek) and you end up with a
cost for materials of $0.52 each tops. Add another $0.25 for the cost of
ink or toner and you are still less than $1.00 per folio. An additional
advantage is that you only have to produce the actual quantity that you
need, and each extra copy costs the same amount. Finally, the cost for
mailing a CD is significantly less than for a paper copy. For those
people who don’t own or have ready access to a computer and printer, the
con could provide a laser printed copy at an additional cost, but this
would save the con a significant lump sum early on and keep memberships
at a reasonable level.

Just my $0.02

Marty

On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 17:04:19 -0600
Pierre & Sandy Pettinger <costumrs@radiks.net> wrote:

> In my view its
> better to budget the folio into your membership rates
> just like everything
> else.
>
> Pierre

This is my feeling as well. I am STRONGLY opposed to a
separate entrance fee for Folio designers.

Why? Because the Folio is our introduction to the wider
world of costume/wearable art/fashion design. The internet
has made this competition visible to a large population who
never knew about it before.

Look at the most recent Folio. See how many of the
designers are first-timers? Many of them submitted
electronically. I had inquiries from Romania, Argentina,
and South Africa. We are truly *international*, folks. I
don’t want to lose them; they have brought fresh ideas and
energy into the Folio, and I’d like to see more.

Karen

YEA for Pierre and Karen Heim,
We here agree. no extra charges, and there’s gotta be ways to keep the
folio happening.
So when are the rest of you gonna convince Alix Jordan she can’t run a con,
and make her get on with her life.
She sure ain’t getting the hint from me.
On or off list.
everyone has the fair right to bid if they choose, but this is a train
wreck waiting to happen.

CC mom and Step Dad’s job is to protect the con as an ongoing thing, from
year to year. You individual folks deal with the specific years and have
all done great, but it’s up to us to be vigilant to make sure that another
australia doesn’t happen. It sure seems like a black hole in the flow of
the years of CC doesn’t it?
and to have it happen on the 20th just makes it worse.

Which is why we are so keen on supporting the Mai’s for 25, proven track
record, and obvious willingness to bust their butts working.

Ricky

and yes, it started as a joke, but my step dad title seems to work, CC
lives in my house, I have to help Karen be responsible for it, and I have
to help pay the bills for it, and there are plenty, with no income to
offset it, as we don’t charge anyone for the usage.

Ok, so no fee for folio’ing.

What about the CD or/and print copy issue?

Yes, or no?

Henry W. Osier,
Co-Chair, CC21

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Just to be clear.

We Like Australia,
We like Christopher Ballis

A a trademark holder, ( goes for patents and copyrights as well)
you are charged with the constant defense of your holding.
We go through this monthly it seems with all of Karen’s Star Trek
Copyrights from her father.
If the look shape whatever of your holding is allowed to be infringed upon,
OR ( the important part) Changed so it could be argued it’s now different,
then legally, you could possibly either loose it, or have someone else make
a new claim on it, as they would argue its no longer the same thing.

So it is up to the holder to keep things the same.or at least recognizable.
The 3 major masq’s were not spelled out as demands in the ConStitution,
because it was assumed they were a ‘given’ and we all know what happens
when you assume:-)

But thats easily fixed, while still allowing con coms to be flexable enough
to be creative.

Ricky

I would rather see it in print, but I’m very Old School.

Somehow, CC’s back in the Dark Ages (CC1-CC10)managed to print and
distribute a Folio *and* a Whole Costumer’s Catalogue back when photocopies
were MUCH more expensive than they are now, so we need a discussion as to
why the cost of producing and mailing a Folio is so insurmountable now. Is
it because of paying a copy shop to do the work vs. having a committee
member standing over the copying machine themselves? Is it because first
class postage is now ‘way more expensive? Is it because the con’s overall
membership is lower so there are less available funds? Is is because the
cost has not been amortized into the convention memberships?

Also, the fancy comb binding to get the pages to lay flat when the Folio is
opened is *very* nice (especially if you’re making up one of the designs
and need the booklet to lay open), but that’s an added expense for punching
and binding. One of those heavy-duty staplers and a box of extra-long
staples might be a more cost-effective solution.

The only way I will deal with a CD is if I have the ability to print images
from it.

I also HATEHATEHATE .pdf files. My computer takes *forever* to load them,
especially if they are large with lots of graphics, and sometimes, my
printer has refused to print them. I have never had these problems with any
other file type.

Also, remember that while 60+ pecent of American households have computers,
those computers may not necessarily be the latest and greatest in terms of
either hardware or software. (For example, I am on a 4-year-old Pentium III
650. There are people selling on eBay that are still using Pentium 166 and
266 machines that are 8+ years old. So while a household may have a
computer, that computer may not necessarily have a CD drive.)

Just my two cents.

–Karen

At 03:07 PM 3/16/2004 -0500, you wrote:

>Ok, so no fee for folio’ing.
>
>What about the CD or/and print copy issue?
>
>Yes, or no?
>
>Henry W. Osier,
>Co-Chair, CC21
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Ricky & Karen Dick wrote:

>I would rather see it in print, but I’m very Old School.
>
>Somehow, CC’s back in the Dark Ages (CC1-CC10)managed to print and
>distribute a Folio *and* a Whole Costumer’s Catalogue back when photocopies
>were MUCH more expensive than they are now, so we need a discussion as to
>why the cost of producing and mailing a Folio is so insurmountable now. Is
>it because of paying a copy shop to do the work vs. having a committee
>member standing over the copying machine themselves? Is it because first
>class postage is now ‘way more expensive? Is it because the con’s overall
>membership is lower so there are less available funds? Is is because the
>cost has not been amortized into the convention memberships?
>

Come to think of it, I seem to remember standing at the copier for
several hours to “print” CC-3’s FF’s when we exceeded our original print
order.. (Yes, I owned the copier.)

>Also, the fancy comb binding to get the pages to lay flat when the Folio is
>opened is *very* nice (especially if you’re making up one of the designs
>and need the booklet to lay open), but that’s an added expense for punching
>and binding. One of those heavy-duty staplers and a box of extra-long
>staples might be a more cost-effective solution.
>

I’m not sure when the fancy bindings first started, but I agree that
they really aren’t necessary. Neither is color.

><snip>
>
>I also HATEHATEHATE .pdf files. My computer takes *forever* to load them,
>especially if they are large with lots of graphics, and sometimes, my
>printer has refused to print them. I have never had these problems with any
>other file type.
>

I don’t have problems with my slowest computer (P III 400) loading them,
but now that you mention it, getting them to print is why I bought a
printer with 256MB of memory. Prior to that I sometimes had to print a
couple of pages at a time, still it could be done. You have raised a
couple of excellent points that I hadn’t considered (so I geeked…
sorry) but if the alternative is either charging the designers or not
producing a FFF then CDs should be considered as a possible solution.

Marty

How difficult would it be to offer an “either/or” option? I prefer hard
copy, but someone else wants disc. Perhaps that might be worth considering.
I have no idea how much that would add to the work load, but I was just
wondering.

Elaine

> >
>I don’t have problems with my slowest computer (P III 400) loading them,
>but now that you mention it, getting them to print is why I bought a
>printer with 256MB of memory. Prior to that I sometimes had to print a
>couple of pages at a time, still it could be done. You have raised a
>couple of excellent points that I hadn’t considered (so I geeked…
>sorry) but if the alternative is either charging the designers or not
>producing a FFF then CDs should be considered as a possible solution.
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get rid of annoying pop-up ads with the new MSN Toolbar � FREE!
http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200414ave/direct/01/

Elaine, it may not double the workload, but it would definitely increase it
to try to produce a Folio in two different media.

Because CC-6 was a decent size con (400 pre-reg and another 200 at the
door), I think we got a bulk mail permit and did all of our mailings that
way, including the Folio. Meant there had to be a little more lead time on
PRs, etc., as bulk mail can take longer than First Class to get delivered,
but the $ savings was significant. I think the Folio would also qualify for
Media Mail if committees haven’t been mailing it that way. If what I’m
saying is stuff y’all are already doing, then we’ll have to look at other
alternatives. I’m just putting suggestions out there as I think of them.

Another way to save on pubs is if any of your committee members has access
to free copying (you typically have to supply your own paper) through
school or work. You spend some evenings/weekends having a couple of
committee people print the stuff themselves, and then have a
collating/stapling/addressing party at somebody’s house. (Kinda like the
Good Old Days of STAR TREK fanzines, LOL!)

To save time in producing the Folio for CC-9, RIcky and I pre-typed the
descriptions of anything we thought were “promising” designs into our
desktop publishing program. (We were NOT judges, and had no influence on
the judges’ decisions.) Then when it came time to produce the Folio, some
of the most tedious work was already done. Would work with scanning in
designs also–we didn’t at that time, as we didn’t have a scanner and had
to paste photocopies of the designs onto the master pages with the printed
descriptions. That would be different now with a scanner and a much
higher-rez laser printer.

–Karen

At 11:43 AM 3/17/2004 -0500, you wrote:

>How difficult would it be to offer an “either/or” option? I prefer hard
>copy, but someone else wants disc. Perhaps that might be worth considering.
> I have no idea how much that would add to the work load, but I was just
>wondering.
>
>Elaine
>
>
> > >
> >I don’t have problems with my slowest computer (P III 400) loading them,
> >but now that you mention it, getting them to print is why I bought a
> >printer with 256MB of memory. Prior to that I sometimes had to print a
> >couple of pages at a time, still it could be done. You have raised a
> >couple of excellent points that I hadn’t considered (so I geeked…
> >sorry) but if the alternative is either charging the designers or not
> >producing a FFF then CDs should be considered as a possible solution.
> >
> >
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get rid of annoying pop-up ads with the new MSN Toolbar ­ FREE!
>http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200414ave/direct/01/
>
>
>
>View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

In a message dated 3/17/2004 10:53:33 AM Central Standard Time,
ecmami@hotmail.com writes:

> How difficult would it be to offer an “either/or” option? I prefer hard
> copy, but someone else wants disc.

Elaine,
That’s my thought exactly!
Henry

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

At 08:45 PM 3/16/2004, you wrote:

>Ricky & Karen Dick wrote:
>
>
> >
>I don’t have problems with my slowest computer (P III 400) loading them,
>but now that you mention it, getting them to print is why I bought a
>printer with 256MB of memory. Prior to that I sometimes had to print a
>couple of pages at a time, still it could be done. You have raised a
>couple of excellent points that I hadn’t considered (so I geeked…
>sorry) but if the alternative is either charging the designers or not
>producing a FFF then CDs should be considered as a possible solution.
>
>Marty

I don’t have a really strong objection to the CDs. The points I brought up
can all be solved, but I’ve heard the objections over and over ad
infinitum. (really want to see things explode on this type of issue, post a
suggestion on SMOFs that program books be issued on CDs. You won’t survive
the nuclear shock wave 🙂 )

I’m certainly not married to the comb bindings (spiral bindings are as
good). I don’t know if I can find the breakdown of CC21’s, but I don’t
recall the bindings being the major part of the printing costs.

I agree, color is certainly not necessary and would never consider it for a
print version. (unless Warren Buffet decided to pay for it. ) It would be a
nice perk for a CD.

I would, however, push for jewel cases for the CDs. I think it would
present a more professional product and I think that is important for
publicity and our public image.

Pierre

>
>View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

“Those Who Fail To Learn History
Are Doomed to Repeat It;
Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly —
Why They Are Simply Doomed.

Achemdro’hm
“The Illusion of Historical Fact”
— C.Y. 4971

Andromeda

Pierre & Sandy Pettinger wrote:
<snip>
I would, however, push for jewel cases for the CDs. I think it would

>present a more professional product and I think that is important for
>publicity and our public image.
>
>Pierre
>

OK, add $0.20 for the slim line style CD cases. BTW CD’s can be mailed
first class for a maximum of $0.60 postage.

Marty

Just so you know I’m paying attention to the discussion, should this be
codified? We need to review the ConStitution after CC22 anyway, so this
is something we should think about.

I’m presently working on the photos for CC10 (Finally!!!), and I just
got the remaining three tapes from CC21 from Carl, so I’ll be working on
CC21, CC22 and then CC12. As soon as I have the photos from Ken and
Vicki, I’ll be working on CC14. At that point, the only con left is
CC20. Based on the lack of response from them, I’ll be snapping stills
from Carl’s video for that. And when I’m done, all the CCs will have
photos for the masquerades, and I can concentrate my time on filling in
other holes in the site, like the guide we’re supposed to be writing. 😎

See you folks in just a few short weeks!

Betsy

Ricky & Karen Dick wrote:

> So it is up to the holder to keep things the same.or at least recognizable.
> The 3 major masq’s were not spelled out as demands in the ConStitution,
> because it was assumed they were a ‘given’ and we all know what happens
> when you assume:-)
>
> But thats easily fixed, while still allowing con coms to be flexable enough
> to be creative.
>
> Ricky

—
—
Betsy R. Delaney
Costume-Con Archivist
Costume-ConNections (http://www.Costume-Con.org/)

You’re ready our minds, you should already have the changes to tighten
things up.

Ricky

At 10:43 PM 3/17/2004 -0500, you wrote:

>Just so you know I’m paying attention to the discussion, should this be
>codified? We need to review the ConStitution after CC22 anyway, so this
>is something we should think about.

That’s what we had wanted to offer folks – the option. I know that I am
drowning in a sea of paper, so an opportunity to save some space, but still
have the Folio, seemed like a good thing.

Trudy

>From: henryosier@cs.com
>Reply-To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
>To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [runacc] Re: [ICG-D] FFF
>Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 15:09:41 EST
>
>In a message dated 3/17/2004 10:53:33 AM Central Standard Time,
>ecmami@hotmail.com writes:
> > How difficult would it be to offer an “either/or” option? I prefer hard
> > copy, but someone else wants disc.
>Elaine,
> That’s my thought exactly!
> Henry
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

_________________________________________________________________
FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar � get it now!
http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/

While I have my own reservations about the London bid, I do not think that
the Australian CC was the disaster you imply. I enjoyed it a great deal.
It definitely wasn’t the worst CC I’ve been to.

It was certainly not the ACG’s fault that a few months prior to their con,
Americans would start to refuse air travel. Other than the chance to
socialize with the people you usually get to see at a CC, CC20 included all
the major activities expected. True, there was no Fashion Show, but there
was a Folio, as well as both SF&F and Historical Masquerades.

I am aware that some people were dismayed by the fact that CC20 was held on
a campus with dorm accommodations. I admit, this is not my favourite way to
sleep either, but there were also great advantages. A CC needs to be
flexible enough to accommodate its local potential membership (example,
CC18’s bellydancing track.) In the case of Australia the local membership
included a large number of recreationists. The open spaces of the campus
location allowed for the incredible historical tent camp, a Napoleonic
battle complete with gunfire as a programming item and (in my opinion at
least) a really fun Friday Night Social.

Other than the bitterness against the ICG that was fostered in Australia,
why do you consider CC20 to have been a failure?

Eileen Capes

—–Original Message—–

… it’s up to us to be vigilant to make sure that another
australia doesn’t happen. It sure seems like a black hole in the flow of
the years of CC doesn’t it?
and to have it happen on the 20th just makes it worse.

Ricky

Hey, I’m good, but not perfect! Mindreading is still something I’m
working on. Just ask Erin or Dan.

Will work something up after the con, to submit for approval.

Cheers,

Betsy

Ricky & Karen Dick wrote:

> You’re ready our minds, you should already have the changes to tighten
> things up.
>
> Ricky
>
> At 10:43 PM 3/17/2004 -0500, you wrote:
> >Just so you know I’m paying attention to the discussion, should this be
> >codified? We need to review the ConStitution after CC22 anyway, so this
> >is something we should think about.

—
—
Betsy R. Delaney
Costume-Con Archivist
Costume-ConNections (http://www.Costume-Con.org/)

Ah.

Please disregard previous message. Instructions received and understood!

Cheers,

Betsy

Ricky & Karen Dick wrote:

> You’re ready our minds, you should already have the changes to tighten
> things up.
>
> Ricky
>
> At 10:43 PM 3/17/2004 -0500, you wrote:
> >Just so you know I’m paying attention to the discussion, should this be
> >codified? We need to review the ConStitution after CC22 anyway, so this
> >is something we should think about.

—
—
Betsy R. Delaney
Costume-Con Archivist
Costume-ConNections (http://www.Costume-Con.org/)

It is my understanding that bulk mail requires a minimum of 200 pieces. I’m
sure it will qualify for media mail rates if it is heavy enough and in an
envelope. We use that here in the office to send BIG brochures, and it
comes to $1.42 per piece. It also goes faster than bulk mail. Usually as
fast (or as slow) as regular mail.

Elaine

>
>Because CC-6 was a decent size con (400 pre-reg and another 200 at the
>door), I think we got a bulk mail permit and did all of our mailings that
>way, including the Folio. Meant there had to be a little more lead time on
>PRs, etc., as bulk mail can take longer than First Class to get delivered,
>but the $ savings was significant. I think the Folio would also qualify for
>Media Mail if committees haven’t been mailing it that way. If what I’m
>saying is stuff y’all are already doing, then we’ll have to look at other
>alternatives. I’m just putting suggestions out there as I think of them.
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
Find a broadband plan that fits. Great local deals on high-speed Internet
access. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200360ave/direct/01/

To begin, the con asked me to run the historical masquerade and I agreed to
do so. The concom promised me a local costumer to handle arrangements for
me. It never made good on its promise.

By the fall of 2001, I intended to fly in, attend only the con because I was
committed to work on it, and fly out immediately afterwards. After the
November 2001 airliner crash in Queens, New York, on take-off from Kennedy,
however, I stopped flying. I immediately told Chris Ballis that I was not
coming. As full members, however, Tina and I have never received any of the
material provided to attendees — program book, folio, and so forth. The
con still owes those documents to us.

The con failed to arrange for ballots for CC23. The record shows that only
six ballots were cast at CC 20 for CC 23.. No site selection fees were
collected — money that is rightfully the property of the winning con, not
the con administering the ballot. Consequently, Tina and I were deprived of
a discount on our CC 23 memberships.

Why did CC 20 lead to animosity against the ICG? The ICG had nothing to do
with the con, except that, as ICG President, I heavily promoted CC 20 here
in North America. I feel like I was bitten on the hand that I was using to
feed the con!

Resentfully,

Byron

—– Original Message —–
From: “Cliff and Eileen” <capsam@nucleus.com>
To: <runacc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 1:25 AM
Subject: [runacc] RE: CC20

> While I have my own reservations about the London bid, I do not think that
> the Australian CC was the disaster you imply. I enjoyed it a great deal.
> It definitely wasn’t the worst CC I’ve been to.
>
> It was certainly not the ACG’s fault that a few months prior to their con,
> Americans would start to refuse air travel. Other than the chance to
> socialize with the people you usually get to see at a CC, CC20 included
all
> the major activities expected. True, there was no Fashion Show, but there
> was a Folio, as well as both SF&F and Historical Masquerades.
>
> I am aware that some people were dismayed by the fact that CC20 was held
on
> a campus with dorm accommodations. I admit, this is not my favourite way
to
> sleep either, but there were also great advantages. A CC needs to be
> flexible enough to accommodate its local potential membership (example,
> CC18’s bellydancing track.) In the case of Australia the local membership
> included a large number of recreationists. The open spaces of the campus
> location allowed for the incredible historical tent camp, a Napoleonic
> battle complete with gunfire as a programming item and (in my opinion at
> least) a really fun Friday Night Social.
>
> Other than the bitterness against the ICG that was fostered in Australia,
> why do you consider CC20 to have been a failure?
>
> Eileen Capes
>
>
> —–Original Message—–
>
> … it’s up to us to be vigilant to make sure that another
> australia doesn’t happen. It sure seems like a black hole in the flow of
> the years of CC doesn’t it?
> and to have it happen on the 20th just makes it worse.
>
> Ricky

At 10:43 AM 3/17/2004, you wrote:

>How difficult would it be to offer an “either/or” option? I prefer hard
>copy, but someone else wants disc. Perhaps that might be worth considering.
> I have no idea how much that would add to the work load, but I was just
>wondering.
>
>Elaine

Its not insurmountable. The major issue involved, as I see it, is the
economies of scale. Generally, the larger your print order, the less you’re
paying per copy. If you’re talking about 96% CD and 5% print, that’s
probably not a big financial issue. If you’re talking 50/50 you may be
paying nearly as much for the 50% as you would for 100% split.

No I haven’t done a study to verify those numbers. They’re off the top of
my head. I do recall we slightly upped the order of CC21 Folios because we
would cross a threshold and pay less total.

Pierre

> > >
> >I don’t have problems with my slowest computer (P III 400) loading them,
> >but now that you mention it, getting them to print is why I bought a
> >printer with 256MB of memory. Prior to that I sometimes had to print a
> >couple of pages at a time, still it could be done. You have raised a
> >couple of excellent points that I hadn’t considered (so I geeked…
> >sorry) but if the alternative is either charging the designers or not
> >producing a FFF then CDs should be considered as a possible solution.

“Those Who Fail To Learn History
Are Doomed to Repeat It;
Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly —
Why They Are Simply Doomed.

Achemdro’hm
“The Illusion of Historical Fact”
— C.Y. 4971

Andromeda

At 11:48 AM 3/17/2004, you wrote:

>Elaine, it may not double the workload, but it would definitely increase it
>to try to produce a Folio in two different media.
>
>Because CC-6 was a decent size con (400 pre-reg and another 200 at the
>door), I think we got a bulk mail permit and did all of our mailings that
>way, including the Folio. Meant there had to be a little more lead time on
>PRs, etc., as bulk mail can take longer than First Class to get delivered,
>but the $ savings was significant. I think the Folio would also qualify for
>Media Mail if committees haven’t been mailing it that way. If what I’m
>saying is stuff y’all are already doing, then we’ll have to look at other
>alternatives. I’m just putting suggestions out there as I think of them.
>
>Another way to save on pubs is if any of your committee members has access
>to free copying (you typically have to supply your own paper) through
>school or work. You spend some evenings/weekends having a couple of
>committee people print the stuff themselves, and then have a
>collating/stapling/addressing party at somebody’s house. (Kinda like the
>Good Old Days of STAR TREK fanzines, LOL!)

If you can get “free” copying this would change the financial dynamic
significantly.

>To save time in producing the Folio for CC-9, RIcky and I pre-typed the
>descriptions of anything we thought were “promising” designs into our
>desktop publishing program. (We were NOT judges, and had no influence on
>the judges’ decisions.) Then when it came time to produce the Folio, some
>of the most tedious work was already done. Would work with scanning in
>designs also–we didn’t at that time, as we didn’t have a scanner and had
>to paste photocopies of the designs onto the master pages with the printed
>descriptions. That would be different now with a scanner and a much
>higher-rez laser printer.

Actually, for CC21 every design submitted was scanned and the text entered
as they were received. After judging it then was a very simple matter to
plug everything into place in our publishing program.

Pierre and Sandy

>–Karen
>
>At 11:43 AM 3/17/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>
> >How difficult would it be to offer an “either/or” option? I prefer hard
> >copy, but someone else wants disc. Perhaps that might be worth considering.
> > I have no idea how much that would add to the work load, but I was just
> >wondering.
> >
> >Elaine
> >
> >
> > > >
> > >I don’t have problems with my slowest computer (P III 400) loading them,
> > >but now that you mention it, getting them to print is why I bought a
> > >printer with 256MB of memory. Prior to that I sometimes had to print a
> > >couple of pages at a time, still it could be done. You have raised a
> > >couple of excellent points that I hadn’t considered (so I geeked…
> > >sorry) but if the alternative is either charging the designers or not
> > >producing a FFF then CDs should be considered as a possible solution.

“Those Who Fail To Learn History
Are Doomed to Repeat It;
Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly —
Why They Are Simply Doomed.

Achemdro’hm
“The Illusion of Historical Fact”
— C.Y. 4971

Andromeda

Byron,

I can understand your frustration, because like you, the ICG to me is a
group of people I know. However to anyone who has never traveled to outside
cons, the ICG is a faceless organization.

Many Calgary members also were very bitter against the faceless ICG after
CC19. Calgary was encouraged by a certain large west coast chapter to bid
for a CC, and then due to events in the intervening years, the members of
that chapter stayed away en masse. Despite the fact that many east coast
members came to CC19, many locals who worked on the con felt let down by
“the ICG”. (Ironically, the members who did not work on the con are more
friendly to the ICG because of meeting the people who came.) A year after
CC19, a vote held by our chapter on following the ACG out of the ICG was a
tie.

I think in Australia the problem was even more intense. They had worked for
several years to throw a party, and the number of North Americans who came
could be counted without taking off your shoes.

By the way, I did not know that CC23 never received the site selection fees.
I deducted the voting fee when I sent in my membership and was never told
otherwise.

I will be out of town for the next five days, so if anyone replies to this,
I am not ignoring you.

Eileen

—–Original Message—–

Why did CC 20 lead to animosity against the ICG? The ICG had nothing to do
with the con, except that, as ICG President, I heavily promoted CC 20 here
in North America. I feel like I was bitten on the hand that I was using to
feed the con!

Resentfully,

Byron

Eileen,
We do not have a problem with the discount for voting. It’s only six, and maybe less than that. We also thank the one or two CCs that gave some money, since by bidding against us, it upped their total income from voting fees.

Charles

—– Original Message —–
From: Cliff and Eileen

Byron,
<snip
By the way, I did not know that CC23 never received the site selection fees.
I deducted the voting fee when I sent in my membership and was never told
otherwise.

I will be out of town for the next five days, so if anyone replies to this,
I am not ignoring you.

Eileen

—–Original Message—–

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Point of honor here, CostumeCon is not the ICG and vice-versa; although they
do have a very loose affiliation. The ICG supports CostumeCon as much as it
is able considering it has no power what-so-ever (that’s how the general
membership seems to like it); obviously they can’t make anyone attend any
particular con.
If a certain chapter let you down, why hold it against the rest of the
organization? If the parent organization has actively (or neglectfully) done
something to harm your chapter, that’s something else. Our own chapter stuck
with the ICG for several years while our funds and records were being
consistently lost (maybe we’re just stubborn); we felt that it was worth the
effort and frustration for a group we believed in.
And it’s not like any of us enjoy having a tanking economy – I’d have loved
to go to Calgary and/or Australia, my finances do not allow that kind of
travel. Sometimes people just can’t come no matter how much they want to.
Would that make you think twice before bidding on a CC again? Absolutely.
Give up on costuming and all of your costuming clubs? I don’t think so.

Nora

—– Original Message —–
From: “Cliff and Eileen” <capsam@nucleus.com>
> Byron,
> Many Calgary members also were very bitter against the faceless ICG after
> CC19. Calgary was encouraged by a certain large west coast chapter to bid
> for a CC, and then due to events in the intervening years, the members of
> that chapter stayed away en masse. Despite the fact that many east coast
> members came to CC19, many locals who worked on the con felt let down by
> “the ICG”. (Ironically, the members who did not work on the con are more
> friendly to the ICG because of meeting the people who came.) A year after
> CC19, a vote held by our chapter on following the ACG out of the ICG was a
> tie.
> I think in Australia the problem was even more intense. They had worked
for
> several years to throw a party, and the number of North Americans who came
> could be counted without taking off your shoes.