runacc.costume-con.org

Dear Betsy and the rest of the list,
I’m on AOL, but I don’t use the IM option, although my younger son could
educate me if necessary.
I asked to be on this list because, although I am only a journeyman
costumer, I have been very active in fandom. I have extensive experience in
both convention running and creating forms and rules. I acquired this being
an art show director, co-revisor of ASFA’s Art Show Guidelines, and treasurer
for PSFS, ASFA, and for my sins, the recent Philly Worldcon.
Joni Brill Dashoff

In a message dated 04/25/2003 10:25:18 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
betsy@hawkeswood.com writes:

> Hi, folks!
>
> There are now 21 members of this list.
>
> Since our members are spread across the country, and since long distance
> bills are what they are, here’s my AIM account.
>

Welcome to the list, Joni, and nice seeing you at LunaCon.

–Karen

At 12:28 AM 5/12/2003 -0400, you wrote:

>Dear Betsy and the rest of the list,
> I’m on AOL, but I don’t use the IM option, although my younger son
> could
>educate me if necessary.
> I asked to be on this list because, although I am only a journeyman
>costumer, I have been very active in fandom. I have extensive experience in
>both convention running and creating forms and rules. I acquired this being
>an art show director, co-revisor of ASFA’s Art Show Guidelines, and treasurer
>for PSFS, ASFA, and for my sins, the recent Philly Worldcon.
> Joni Brill Dashoff
>
>In a message dated 04/25/2003 10:25:18 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
>betsy@hawkeswood.com writes:
>
> > Hi, folks!
> >
> > There are now 21 members of this list.
> >
> > Since our members are spread across the country, and since long distance
> > bills are what they are, here’s my AIM account.
> >
>
>
>View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>runacc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Joni —

Don’t worry about the division in which you compete. When I do compete, I do so in the Novice division. This list is about running Costume-Cons, not about competing in their masquerades. Your experience makes you especially qualified to participate.

Byron

—– Original Message —–
From: JBdashoff@aol.com
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, May 12, 2003 12:28 AM
Subject: Re: [runacc] My AIM Account — FYI

Dear Betsy and the rest of the list,
I’m on AOL, but I don’t use the IM option, although my younger son could
educate me if necessary.
I asked to be on this list because, although I am only a journeyman
costumer, I have been very active in fandom. I have extensive experience in
both convention running and creating forms and rules. I acquired this being
an art show director, co-revisor of ASFA’s Art Show Guidelines, and treasurer
for PSFS, ASFA, and for my sins, the recent Philly Worldcon.
Joni Brill Dashoff

In a message dated 04/25/2003 10:25:18 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
betsy@hawkeswood.com writes:

> Hi, folks!
>
> There are now 21 members of this list.
>
> Since our members are spread across the country, and since long distance
> bills are what they are, here’s my AIM account.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

A follow-up to my message of a few minutes ago. It’s not terribly hard to learn any of the jobs in running a masquerade. Usually, you can do so by volunteering to take various positions in the masquerade staff. Successful experience leads to increased responsibility. Beyond that, there are two pre-eminent books on running masquerades: The Kennedy Compendium, by the late Peggy Kennedy, and The Masquerade Handbook, by Cat Devereaux and other CGW members. To a considerable extent, I learned what I do by reading the two and internalizing their (sometimes contradictory) advice. Tina and I have copies available of the Compendium. Cat may be able to help you locate copies of the Handbook.

Yet, as they stand, neither work is up-to-date or appropriate for an International-level competition; they are a decade old and have to be adapted for that stage. A number of us are working on the preparation of a Costume-Con Runners’ Guide, the equivalent of the Worldcon Runners’ Guide. I expect that a great deal of the discussion under this thread on ICG-D will help to shape our work.

Byron

—– Original Message —–
From: Bruce & Nora Mai
To: ICG-D@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2003 10:42 PM
Subject: [ICG-D] Judging — many new questions

> Becoming a judge means the MD has asked you. I think it’s arrogant and
> presumptuous to go around to MDs going, “I’m available to judge. Pick
> me!” What if they don’t *want* you?

Karen Heim had a number of good questions from an earlier post regarding
judges

And this leads me to a whole list of questions for those of you who have
been doing the costuming and con thing longer than I have. This is a
subject I want to understand thoroughly. I’ve been saving some letters
posted earlier in regards to the other issues I raised. This is gonna take
some time, so pull up a chair.

First, foremost and central: How does one become a judge? It’s obvously
not just because you’ve costumed for years. We have any number of judges
who have little, if any, costume construction experience, but it’s obvious
they know their stuff.

Karen feels uncomfortable volunteering. I can understand that. One has to
have a certain amount of confidence to volunteer, because you don’t know if
someone feels you “worthy” or not. So, I assume it’s not just a matter of
“you have to know someone”.

Veterans: Who typically selects the judges? Those of you who have picked
the judges for your masquerades, what are your criteria?

(And by the way, how are masquerade directors themselve chosen, for that
matter?)

Bruce

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

For the record, I’ve got copies of both publications, so we should be
covered in that section.

Regarding Bruce’s questions – I haven’t read the original yet. My ICG-D
box stands at 140 unread messages, and it’s likely to stay that way for
at least the next few days.

I can answer some of the questions concerning CCXV, since I selected the
MDs.

Later,

Betsy

Byron Connell wrote:

>
> A follow-up to my message of a few minutes ago. It’s not terribly hard to learn any of the jobs in running a masquerade. Usually, you can do so by volunteering to take various positions in the masquerade staff. Successful experience leads to increased responsibility. Beyond that, there are two pre-eminent books on running masquerades: The Kennedy Compendium, by the late Peggy Kennedy, and The Masquerade Handbook, by Cat Devereaux and other CGW members. To a considerable extent, I learned what I do by reading the two and internalizing their (sometimes contradictory) advice. Tina and I have copies available of the Compendium. Cat may be able to help you locate copies of the Handbook.
>
> Yet, as they stand, neither work is up-to-date or appropriate for an International-level competition; they are a decade old and have to be adapted for that stage. A number of us are working on the preparation of a Costume-Con Runners’ Guide, the equivalent of the Worldcon Runners’ Guide. I expect that a great deal of the discussion under this thread on ICG-D will help to shape our work.
>
> Byron
>
>
> —– Original Message —–
> From: Bruce & Nora Mai
> To: ICG-D@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2003 10:42 PM
> Subject: [ICG-D] Judging — many new questions
>
> > Becoming a judge means the MD has asked you. I think it’s arrogant and
> > presumptuous to go around to MDs going, “I’m available to judge. Pick
> > me!” What if they don’t *want* you?
>
> Karen Heim had a number of good questions from an earlier post regarding
> judges
>
> And this leads me to a whole list of questions for those of you who have
> been doing the costuming and con thing longer than I have. This is a
> subject I want to understand thoroughly. I’ve been saving some letters
> posted earlier in regards to the other issues I raised. This is gonna take
> some time, so pull up a chair.
>
> First, foremost and central: How does one become a judge? It’s obvously
> not just because you’ve costumed for years. We have any number of judges
> who have little, if any, costume construction experience, but it’s obvious
> they know their stuff.
>
> Karen feels uncomfortable volunteering. I can understand that. One has to
> have a certain amount of confidence to volunteer, because you don’t know if
> someone feels you “worthy” or not. So, I assume it’s not just a matter of
> “you have to know someone”.
>
> Veterans: Who typically selects the judges? Those of you who have picked
> the judges for your masquerades, what are your criteria?
>
> (And by the way, how are masquerade directors themselve chosen, for that
> matter?)
>
> Bruce
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
> Enter:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> ICG-D-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> runacc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

—
Betsy R. Delaney
Web Mistress at large

************************************************************************
http://www.WebInvent.com/ * http://www.hawkeswood.com/
http://www.Costume-Con.org/ * http://www.sickpups.org/
http://www.SchoolWithoutWalls.org/
************************************************************************

If you haven’t been reading ICG-D there’s a big discussion (mostly
instigated by myself and Kevin this afternoon) raging over changing the
division names, and replacing Master/Journeyman/Novice with
Open/Intermediate/Beginner. I went to the guidelines draft I’ve been
working on and did a careful find-and-replace on the division names.

(forwarded from ICG-D)

> You can see (if you can read word documents) what it looks like at
> http://www.bovil.com/icg/GuidelinesRewrite4.doc
>
> Just scroll down to the second half (the new draft) and find the skill
> division section.
>
> Forgive a few spots where the phrasing is clumsy; the change in names
> does necessitate a bit of tweaking of the surrounding language that I
> didn’t take the time to do. For the most part, though, a simple
> plug-replace worked pretty well.

andy

—
andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen
http://www.irlm.org/ – mailto:webmaster@irlm.org
“Anybody who takes this seriously deserves to”
— Donna Barr

On Monday, May 12, 2003, at 10:19 PM, Betsy Delaney wrote:

> Regarding Bruce’s questions – I haven’t read the original yet. My ICG-D
> box stands at 140 unread messages, and it’s likely to stay that way for
> at least the next few days.

you couldn’t be so lucky…

> I can answer some of the questions concerning CCXV, since I selected
> the
> MDs.

I think this sort of discussion will be very valuable in defining a
more standard “job description” for the position.

andy

—
Andy Trembley, Bull-in-Drag
The Bovine Illuminati (It’s the Cows, Inc.)
http://www.bovil.com/
Moo!

—
andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen – http://www.bovil.com/
San Jose, CA – ’72 R75/5 ’86 R100 (mine) – ’92 K75sa ’03 R1150R
(Kevin’s)
“It’s not pink, it’s peach-colored. Pink is tacky.”
–Manfred Pfirsich Marie Rommel

read the FAQ… Ridicule: http://www.idiots-r-us.org/
read the FAQ… IBMWR: http://www.ibmwr.org/faq-files/
read the FAQ… AirList: http://www.airheads.org/faq.html
read the FAQ… Hoaxes & Urban Legends: http://urbanlegends.about.com/

Andy,

While I agree that Master is not a great name, I dread the thought of
another 6 years of fighting. It was a very long and grizzly fight, and the
local meetings were as aggravating as the annual meetings – which went on
for hours. Those fights are what cost us many members, who dropped out of
the ICG because of the politiking. They kept Karen out for a long time, as
well!

IMHO, perhaps we could think of just changing the one “title” to
Experienced, rather than swamp the entire boat with one tsunami.

And discussions in my own house are now several decibels higher already!

Elaine

> If you haven’t been reading ICG-D there’s a big discussion (mostly
> instigated by myself and Kevin this afternoon) raging over changing the
> division names, and replacing Master/Journeyman/Novice with
> Open/Intermediate/Beginner. I went to the guidelines draft I’ve been
> working on and did a careful find-and-replace on the division names.

In a message dated 05/04/2003 6:59:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
MartinGear@comcast.net writes:

> Keeping all this in mind, I’d be interested to see comments
> regarding the choice of “Presidents’ Day” weekend for a CC.

The Delaware Valley Costumers Guild hosted CostumeCon in Cherry Hill, NJ
(across the river from Philly) a few years back and found…
(1) the Californians were scared of snow (and this year we did have a
sufficient snow amounts during President’s Day weekend to scare even the East
Coasters).
(2) President’s Day weekend is also Valentine’s Day; our hotel restaurant
gave all its Saturday dinner tables to reserved couples and saved NONE for
hotel guests (the hotel restaurant was a subcontract).

I think Easter weekend weather and Sunday brunches are a lot less
conflict for a CostumeCon.
Joni Dashoff

In a message dated 05/05/2003 1:26:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
MartinGear@comcast.net writes:

> Sorry Betsy, but according to my records, we’ve held all three Baltimore
> area CC’s over Memorial Day weekend. That was Disclave’s weekend, and
> since Disclave did not generally do a masquerade, we offered a special
> rate to Disclave members who wanted to come to Costume Con just for the
> masquerades.

(snipped)

> We held CC-15
> in downtown Baltimore over Memorial Day weekend because all of the
> suburban hotels were now booked solid because of soccer tournaments in
> the area.

That’s correct. Betsy, you and your husband even gave me directions to
the nearest gas station and then how to get back to Disclave on Saturday
after theSF/F Masquerade..
I arrived at three AM, counted heads and coming up short went to the
Discave to yank Alan from his Social Class game with Hal Haag et al.
We got to bed at 3:30AM The fire alarms started at 5:30AM aand went on
for an hour (Alan slept through them all). Yes, that was the year of water in
which Disclave sunk.

> Given that, and the fact that BaltiCon [very costumer friendly
> for those of you who never been] is now on Memorial Day weekend, I would
> doubt that we will see any East Coast CC’s using that weekend.
>
> ^M^
>

Long live Balticon and Caplave.

As for CostumeCon, last week of April/first week of May sounds like nice
weather, no religious conflicts, no major con conflicts, and if the kids are
stuck in school, its a great reason to get to travel alone!

BTW, SFWA has gone through the same discussion after holding its Nebulas
weekend over Easter/Passover this year. There were some members who had
religious conflicts but more who had major regional SF/F con conflicts, a
real drag when your membership base is the SF/F authors.
Joni

From: <JBdashoff@aol.com>

> The Delaware Valley Costumers Guild hosted CostumeCon in Cherry Hill, NJ
> (across the river from Philly) a few years back and found…
> (1) the Californians were scared of snow (and this year we did have a
> sufficient snow amounts during President’s Day weekend to scare even the

East

> Coasters).

“The Californians” (by which I mean everybody but myself, Kevin and Jess
Miller) haven’t traveled east for anything in years. The last CC with any
significant California presence was CC16. There were 6 of us (ourselves,
Janet Anderson, Deb Salisbury and the MacDermotts) if I remember correctly.
Granted Kevin and I skipped CC20, 19 and 18 (money/conflict, conflict and
conflict) but at this point I’d call the snow an excuse, not a reason.

andy

From: “Andrew T Trembley” <attrembl@bovil.com>

> “The Californians” (by which I mean everybody but myself, Kevin and Jess
> Miller) haven’t traveled east for anything in years. The last CC with any
> significant California presence was CC16. There were 6 of us (ourselves,
> Janet Anderson, Deb Salisbury and the MacDermotts) if I remember

correctly.

Sorry, forgot to finish that sentence. There were only 6 of us at CC21.

CC16 included Bridget Landry, Bruce Briant, Kate Morgenstern, Jess Miller,
Darla Krueger and more folks I’m spacing at the moment. Of course, I wasn’t
a Californian at that point.

andy

I’m sorry, but that is not correct. CC 9 was February 15-18, 1991. We drove through a snow storm in northeastern Pennsylvania to get to it. It snowed during the con and I recall CGW members dancing out in the snow as it fell.

Byron

—– Original Message —–
From: JBdashoff@aol.com
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2003 12:54 AM
Subject: Re: [runacc] Re: Date ideas

In a message dated 05/05/2003 1:26:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
MartinGear@comcast.net writes:

> Sorry Betsy, but according to my records, we’ve held all three Baltimore
> area CC’s over Memorial Day weekend. That was Disclave’s weekend, and
> since Disclave did not generally do a masquerade, we offered a special
> rate to Disclave members who wanted to come to Costume Con just for the
> masquerades.
(snipped)
> We held CC-15
> in downtown Baltimore over Memorial Day weekend because all of the
> suburban hotels were now booked solid because of soccer tournaments in
> the area.
That’s correct. Betsy, you and your husband even gave me directions to
the nearest gas station and then how to get back to Disclave on Saturday
after theSF/F Masquerade..
I arrived at three AM, counted heads and coming up short went to the
Discave to yank Alan from his Social Class game with Hal Haag et al.
We got to bed at 3:30AM The fire alarms started at 5:30AM aand went on
for an hour (Alan slept through them all). Yes, that was the year of water in
which Disclave sunk.

> Given that, and the fact that BaltiCon [very costumer friendly
> for those of you who never been] is now on Memorial Day weekend, I would
> doubt that we will see any East Coast CC’s using that weekend.
>
> ^M^
>
Long live Balticon and Caplave.

As for CostumeCon, last week of April/first week of May sounds like nice
weather, no religious conflicts, no major con conflicts, and if the kids are
stuck in school, its a great reason to get to travel alone!

BTW, SFWA has gone through the same discussion after holding its Nebulas
weekend over Easter/Passover this year. There were some members who had
religious conflicts but more who had major regional SF/F con conflicts, a
real drag when your membership base is the SF/F authors.
Joni

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

pertinent to our discussion…

Begin forwarded message:

> From: Catelli <catelli@rcn.com>
> Date: Thu May 15, 2003 4:46:24 AM US/Pacific
> To: ICG-D@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [ICG-D] CCXV
> Reply-To: ICG-D@yahoogroups.com
>
> One thing that slipped at CCXV, was that no one considered Ninjas to be
> their department.
>
> I looked to sign up to be a ninja. There was no sign-up sheet, even.
>
> So I panicked at everyone I ran into & gathered together a crew.
> Betsy modestly backed away from the lectern & fell off the stage during
> an awards ceremony.
>
>
> I did have some issues with the Green Room staff–the postage stamp
> room
> was filled with tables, and the heads of Green Room laughed at my
> suggestion that we strike the tables before anyone arrived. In the
> event, they waited until the room was full of costumers, and then
> struck
> them, for only 1/2-1/3 of the entrants had arrived at that point.
>
> Ann in CT

—
andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen – http://www.bovil.com/
San Jose, CA – ’72 R75/5 ’86 R100 (mine) – ’92 K75sa ’03 R1150R
(Kevin’s)
…remaining .sig trimmed for better message/.sig ratio

You betcha!

Concerning this issue: It was my impression that once the MDs took over,
they were responsible for collecting these names. That it fell through
the cracks is news to me, six years after the fact, but it would explain
the dearth of catchers at the con.

The fall I took brings up two points. First, the stage was set with a
very large hole behind the podium, to bring the MC away from the stage.
I think that this is a Very Bad Idea ™ for the obvious reason that
falls can happen. I was VERY careful while walking around the stage at
CC21 for that very reason. Having cracked ribs once, at the con I was
running, I was disinclined to do so again at a con for which I was not
responsible.

Since my fall, I have advocated, when asked, that anyone who expects to
have something to do with a stage should be signing a release form
holding the con harmless should an injury occur during the weekend. This
should include judges, techies, MCs and competition coordinators as
well.

Liability releases were not available at CC21 until I asked about them
for our group. By then, the text we used for CCXV was safely at home, in
my archives. While a blanket release for photography was a good idea,
missing the other can get the con committee into a great deal of hot
water if anyone is actually hurt during an event. Just ask the con com
from Magicon.

While we’re thinking about things to add to the document, I think that
we should consider providing sample releases. We should also consider
generating some sort of at-con checklist for committees to use, so that
they can have an easy reference for management holes in their staff.

Finally, I can’t speak for why Ann was poo-pooed (if this was the case)
in the greenroom, but I don’t think anyone really thought about the
amount of necessary personal space 105 contestant bodies would actually
take up in the space allotted. This was something that should probably
have been identified by the MD as a potential problem before the
greenroom call occurred. Again, we should consider providing guidance on
the subject.

Sometimes there’s nothing you can do with the greenroom space because of
the configuration of the hotel. We saw that with CC21. Improvisation is
necessary. So is patience and understanding. Blowing someone off without
good reason is never a good idea, at any time.

If anyone has questions about decisions made during that weekend, just
ask. I promise to answer to the best of my ability (and memory).

Meanwhile, I expect to be away from the computer a substantial amount
over the next several days – my sister and her family are in town until
Tuesday, and we have a wedding this weekend in which we are heavily
involved. After they leave, I have the remains of our family room floor
to paint, and everything to put back into its proper place, as well as
the last five CCs to reconfigure, and CC21’s data to add. So if you have
a question and I don’t get back to you immediately, now you know why.

Cheers,

Betsy

Andrew Trembley wrote:

>
> pertinent to our discussion…
>
> Begin forwarded message:
> > From: Catelli <catelli@rcn.com>
> > Date: Thu May 15, 2003 4:46:24 AM US/Pacific
> > To: ICG-D@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [ICG-D] CCXV
> > Reply-To: ICG-D@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > One thing that slipped at CCXV, was that no one considered Ninjas to be
> > their department.
> >
> > I looked to sign up to be a ninja. There was no sign-up sheet, even.
> >
> > So I panicked at everyone I ran into & gathered together a crew.
> > Betsy modestly backed away from the lectern & fell off the stage during
> > an awards ceremony.
> >
> >
> > I did have some issues with the Green Room staff–the postage stamp
> > room
> > was filled with tables, and the heads of Green Room laughed at my
> > suggestion that we strike the tables before anyone arrived. In the
> > event, they waited until the room was full of costumers, and then
> > struck
> > them, for only 1/2-1/3 of the entrants had arrived at that point.
> >
> > Ann in CT
>
> —
> andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen – http://www.bovil.com/
> San Jose, CA – ’72 R75/5 ’86 R100 (mine) – ’92 K75sa ’03 R1150R
> (Kevin’s)
> …remaining .sig trimmed for better message/.sig ratio
>
>
> View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> runacc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

—
Betsy R. Delaney
Web Mistress at large

************************************************************************
http://www.WebInvent.com/ * http://www.hawkeswood.com/
http://www.Costume-Con.org/ * http://www.sickpups.org/
http://www.SchoolWithoutWalls.org/
************************************************************************

It’s true. They danced in the flakes, then the Pups did our tribute to The
Ring Cycle.

Elaine

> I’m sorry, but that is not correct. CC 9 was February 15-18, 1991. We

drove through a snow storm in northeastern Pennsylvania to get to it. It
snowed during the con and I recall CGW members dancing out in the snow as it
fell.

>
> Byron
>

forwarded with Allison’s permission

—– Original Message —–
From: “Allison Pace” <allivox@comcast.net>
> On Thursday, May 15, 2003, at 09:03 PM, ICG-D@yahoogroups.com wrote:
> From: Andrew Trembley <attrembl@bovil.com>
> > I think perhaps we need a “Newcomer’s guide to Costume-Con” (oy…

> Hear hear!

> > Speaking of questions, I wrote one of those rule sets. I’m curious
> > about the bits that you found confusing. Can you drop me a note at
> > attrembl@bovil.com with your specific comments on the rules?

> Since I’ve got CC21 behind me, I “get it.” So NOW I can re-read the
> Progress Reports and see what they meant. But I would’ve been more on
> top of things (no jokes please – I’ve checked out your website, and
> Kevin’s :-)) if I had had someone explain to me thusly: “Okay, Allison
> – Costume Con is an event based on the model of Science Fiction/Fantasy
> events that have been going on for decades, and this particular event
> includes the category of Historical Costuming, too.” <and then they’d
> have to ‘splain to me what SF/F Cons were…> “It’s not anything
> ‘official’ – it’s just a motley collection of people who are willing to
> put a lot of organization and effort into their hobby.” The event I
> especially didn’t understand was the “Future Fashion Folio.” I thought
> it was some competition for up-and-coming designers so that fashion
> apparel manufacturers might sponsor so as to find new designs and new
> talent. But the categories were too funky for that, so I really had no
> idea what that was all about. And the masquerades were a bit
> confusing, because there was mention of staging and lighting and other
> production elements. So the actress in me thought – “Oh – not just
> showing off your work, but a whole mini-production! Too much tech for
> me before seeing how it works! ” But like I said above, now that I’ve
> been to my first CC, I feel much more comfy with what goes on and I’m
> willing to schlep (schlepp? how many p’s?) a bunch of stuff with me and
> not feeling like I’ve overdone it.
>
> Bottom line is this: the Progress Reports do exactly what they need to
> for those who have been there. But for someone as completely in the
> dark as I was, they seem to be written for those who are already a part
> of the “in crowd.” Maybe there is no solution, maybe each newcomer
> needs to go through this, to figure out for themselves how they will
> participate.

Nora and I do some of our best brainstorming in the car while running
errands. Nora had a couple of very good ideas I think folks ought to
consider in the future:

1. Create a position like “Newbie Liason”. It’s sort of the same idea that
Betsy mentined of the “ambassadors”, only having one person specificaly
charged iwth coming up with ideas to bring the vifgins more quickly into the
community.

We had a new person from our group speak of how “exclusinve” the ICG felt to
her in her first CC experience (never mind that a lot of the CC attendees
aren’t even ICG — she doesn’t understand the format yet). Well, I think
she was expecting people to seek her out, and that’s generally not what
people do as a rule. Sure, there are individuals who try to make an effort,
but they ususally can’t find them all or have the time because they’re
con-goers themselves.

For CC16, we had a ribbon or something to identify new people, and
encouraged all the con-goers to approach them. Not sure how successful that
was specifically, but people liked the con. I had any number of people I
didn’t know that stopped me to say they were having a great time.

Anyway, expanding upon this idea, the Liason could maybe actually give a
tour of the con. They would maybe start with a panel (find out who they
are, where they come from, their backgrouind), then take them around and
show them the Exhibits, the Dealers room, where the masqs and Green Room
are, the Con Suite, what to expect at panels, etc. Also included would be
some sort of “Meet the Vets” session, or at least buttonhole the “names” of
Costuming and introduce them to folks so they would have at least passing
familiarity with people we all mention often in a group. And, that would
include most of you here, like Ricky and Karen, Marty, the Hylls, Carl &
Elaine, Jacqui, the Pettingers, the MacDermotts — people like that.
Maybe the Liason could have a photo album with sample works, just in case.
I think this would work better than a panel, because I just don’t think
people would go to a panel of people telling all about themselves. Maybe
this part could be done in the Con Suite at some point.

I think this could be a fun job!

2. The other idea I wish we’d thought of before CC21, but maybe we can do
it in the future. Frequently, the CC chairs will give away a membership or
two at various masq competitions to BIS winner(s) and/or the Most Promising
Novice (I love that award title). But they pretty much are a nobody when
they come to a CC if they’ve never been before. So why not introduce them
onstage at some point — like during the half-tim? We could could give a
brief bio about them, what year, what they did, maybe even show a picture or
have them bring a part of their outfits if they aren’t competing.

If we’re going to make a big deal about the fact that they won a membership
to a CC, let’s make sure it’s a big deal that they’re there.

Bruce

This is a question for Henry, but I’d like hear input from the rest of you.

Henry:

Can you ask your Liason about any feedback they got about how the other
dealers felt about Janet having a room all to herself? Our Liason feels
very strongly that this was very unfair to them. My position is, if she’s
willing to come with all her stuff, and pay appropriately, why not? How
important is it for AlterYears to be part of a mix, no matter how much she
brings? Is limiting all dealers to a certain number of tables inherently
fair?

Thanks.

Bruce

Does anyone have a list yet of the Historical Masq participants?

Thanks.

Bruce

From: “Bruce & Nora Mai” <casamai@sbcglobal.net>

> Can you ask your Liason about any feedback they got about how the other
> dealers felt about Janet having a room all to herself? Our Liason feels
> very strongly that this was very unfair to them. My position is, if she’s
> willing to come with all her stuff, and pay appropriately, why not?

Business isn’t necessarily fair, that’s why it’s business.

Juried dealers rooms are unfair to the folks who don’t make it through the
jury process. Lotteried dealers rooms are unfair to the folks who lose out
in the lottery. Business is in general unfair to folks who have less
desirable products.

On the theoretical end of things, I agree with your position. If a dealer is
willing to pay for the space and is capable of filling the space, sell the
space to her or him.

AlterYears brings a broad and desirable line of products. Part of Janet’s
product line was in direct competition with Poison Pen Press. Her trims were
not directly in competition with the trim merchant; they had greatly
differing styles and stocks. The rest of the dealers didn’t really carry the
same product lines as Janet, so it was really no more competition to them
than any of the other dealers who carried different product lines. Is it any
more or less fair to the other dealers that AlterYears filled that room than
it would have been if 6 separate dealers filled that room?

Dealers make up a small portion of convention attendees. They do bring
something very important to the con, but their needs and desires need to be
balanced with the needs and desires of the rest of the membership.

I couldn’t have cared less that AlterYears was in that dealers’ room (even
if I did buy 2 books from Janet) because I see them at cons all the time.
That’s not the case for midwest and east-coast attendees who don’t and may
only know them through mail-order. At that point members of the con-com
could have said “we’d like to see AlterYears here, and we think other
attendees would too.”

You can set hard-and-fast rules, but sometimes it’s best to acknowledge that
bending them will result in a better show or a better con for the attendees.
As long as you’re honest that you are bending the rules and have a good
reason why, most folks will accept that.

andy

That would be me. As soon as my sister is gone, I’m working on getting
all the participants and awards up on the site.

Henry or Jennifer: Please, please, please!!! Send me the doll contest
names and awards. REALLY!!!

Thanks,

Betsy

Bruce & Nora Mai wrote:

>
> Does anyone have a list yet of the Historical Masq participants?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Bruce
>
>
> View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> runacc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

—
Betsy R. Delaney
Web Mistress at large

************************************************************************
http://www.WebInvent.com/ * http://www.hawkeswood.com/
http://www.Costume-Con.org/ * http://www.sickpups.org/
http://www.SchoolWithoutWalls.org/
************************************************************************

Bruce,
I was dealers room guy for CC-5 & 9

I feel the con and everyone are better serve by one big dealers room with
all dealers in it. It increases traffic flow for everyone concerned.
It also allows at least the chance that one new dealer with one little
table of worthwhile stuff doesn’t get ignored.

If thats the case, I really don’t have a big problem with how many tables
one dealer gets as long as there is a fair cross section of items availible .
For instance, lets say there are 30 tables in a room.Janet wants 10
that other trim guy that was there this time wants 5.
half the room is gone. maybe you should think twice before selling another
5 to a new trim guy.

It looked like there was no chance of one big room in Chicago, and I would
have probably handled it just as they did, IF I’m assuming they weren’t
turning down dozens of dealers.

I was talking to Nora in Chicago, and she mentioned Janet wanting her own room.
My thought then and now is that con space costs alot. I would hope that she
would be charged a price that would pay for twice the price of what the
hotel is charging, that way you’re paying for some of the other functions
space.
I always ran a dealers room to make money for the con.
At CC- 5 we put the exhibits into the dealer room to increase traffic flow.
I sold the tables at a cost to totally pay for the room, and that way our
exhibit space was essentially free.

How impotant is it for Alteryears to be there? I assume you mean to the con?
it’s not, there are other companies that can fill the bill, but there
should at least be a nod at loyalty to a long time dealer at CC and friend
of the con.

Of course if it’s a well attended CC, then it’s much more important TO
Alteryears to be there ( lets not forget the real reason Costume College
was founded) so a committee shouldn’t sell itself short.
She’s a smart business person, when its not worth it to her, she won’t be
there.

Ricky

it

>This is a question for Henry, but I’d like hear input from the rest of you.
>
>Henry:
>
>Can you ask your Liason about any feedback they got about how the other
>dealers felt about Janet having a room all to herself? Our Liason feels
>very strongly that this was very unfair to them. My position is, if she’s
>willing to come with all her stuff, and pay appropriately, why not? How
>important is it for AlterYears to be part of a mix, no matter how much she
>brings? Is limiting all dealers to a certain number of tables inherently
>fair?
>
>Thanks.
>
>Bruce
>
>
>
>
>View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>runacc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

My personal opinion here:

I think my recommendation would be to limit tables based on the number
of available spaces, and only give exceptions to dealers who are already
signed up (first come, first served) for expansion when the con is
within a month or so of the date. Why? Because if you can’t fill the
room, you can then give the dealers the opportunity to expand. If you’re
overrun with dealers who want the space, a variety is a good thing.

I think we played it by ear for CC, and then when we got to the con and
several dealers were unable to show, we gave other dealers the
opportunity to expand into the spaces left open. I didn’t hear any
complaints from anyone at the con concerning the change.

My suggested limit would be based on the total size of the room. I would
be tempted (and I think we did this at CCXV) to limit to two per dealer
unless special arrangements were requested. Three was the absolute
maximum.

Note that my recollection is fuzzy, and that my dealer room coordinator
bailed out on me less than six months prior to the con, leaving me with
the icky task of following up on the work she didn’t do myself. I
learned more than I ever want to know about how to run a dealer room
after that little fiasco.

Cheers,

Betsy

Bruce & Nora Mai wrote:

>
> This is a question for Henry, but I’d like hear input from the rest of you.
>
> Henry:
>
> Can you ask your Liason about any feedback they got about how the other
> dealers felt about Janet having a room all to herself? Our Liason feels
> very strongly that this was very unfair to them. My position is, if she’s
> willing to come with all her stuff, and pay appropriately, why not? How
> important is it for AlterYears to be part of a mix, no matter how much she
> brings? Is limiting all dealers to a certain number of tables inherently
> fair?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Bruce

—
Betsy R. Delaney
Web Mistress at large

************************************************************************
http://www.WebInvent.com/ * http://www.hawkeswood.com/
http://www.Costume-Con.org/ * http://www.sickpups.org/
http://www.SchoolWithoutWalls.org/
************************************************************************

For Janet to bring that much stuff, and the people to staff the room, it had
to be costly. I feel that any dealer who has the where-withall to
transport, and the quality and variety of merchandise, should be allowed to.
The attendees benefit!

I personally would have preferred to see all the dealers in one room, but it
isn’t always possible to get a room big enough. Knowing that a CC will be
having a kick-ass dealers’ room(s) can be a big draw.

Elaine

—– Original Message —–
From: Bruce & Nora Mai <casamai@sbcglobal.net>
To: <runacc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2003 6:15 PM
Subject: [runacc] Dealers Room

> This is a question for Henry, but I’d like hear input from the rest of
you.
>
> Henry:
>
> Can you ask your Liason about any feedback they got about how the other
> dealers felt about Janet having a room all to herself? Our Liason feels
> very strongly that this was very unfair to them. My position is, if she’s
> willing to come with all her stuff, and pay appropriately, why not? How
> important is it for AlterYears to be part of a mix, no matter how much she
> brings? Is limiting all dealers to a certain number of tables inherently
> fair?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Bruce
>
>
>
>
> View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> runacc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Has CC ever considered doing what other S/F conventions have done–book a
block of rooms on one floor of the hotel and turn them into Dealer’s Row?

This has the advantage of (1) not limiting dealer space, (2) letting
dealers set their own hours, (3) dealers with clothing items have built-in
“dressing rooms” (bathroom). It also frees up regular convention function
space for panels and displays.

Thoughts?

–Karen

At 09:47 PM 5/18/2003 -0400, you wrote:

>For Janet to bring that much stuff, and the people to staff the room, it had
>to be costly. I feel that any dealer who has the where-withall to
>transport, and the quality and variety of merchandise, should be allowed to.
>The attendees benefit!
>
>I personally would have preferred to see all the dealers in one room, but it
>isn’t always possible to get a room big enough. Knowing that a CC will be
>having a kick-ass dealers’ room(s) can be a big draw.
>
>Elaine
>
>—– Original Message —–
>From: Bruce & Nora Mai <casamai@sbcglobal.net>
>To: <runacc@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2003 6:15 PM
>Subject: [runacc] Dealers Room
>
>
> > This is a question for Henry, but I’d like hear input from the rest of
>you.
> >
> > Henry:
> >
> > Can you ask your Liason about any feedback they got about how the other
> > dealers felt about Janet having a room all to herself? Our Liason feels
> > very strongly that this was very unfair to them. My position is, if she’s
> > willing to come with all her stuff, and pay appropriately, why not? How
> > important is it for AlterYears to be part of a mix, no matter how much she
> > brings? Is limiting all dealers to a certain number of tables inherently
> > fair?
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Bruce
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > runacc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>runacc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Elaine Mami wrote:

> Knowing that a CC will be
>having a kick-ass dealers’ room(s) can be a big draw.
>

It is for me (even if I don’t end up spending a lot – my money is kinda
tight). Especially when buying books, I REALLY want to see what’s in it
before forking over $20+, so I can make wise decisions.

And Karen Dick wrote:

Has CC ever considered doing what other S/F conventions have done–book a
block of rooms on one floor of the hotel and turn them into Dealer’s Row?

This has the advantage of (1) not limiting dealer space, (2) letting
dealers set their own hours, (3) dealers with clothing items have built-in
“dressing rooms” (bathroom). It also frees up regular convention function
space for panels and displays.

I’ve seen this, and I have mixed feelings. I like the idea in concept,
but want to be sensitive to other hotel patrons. It could get rather noisy.

At one convention, the rooms have rear sliding doors that open up into a
central atrium, where the games and pool are located. I like this,
because you expect that area to be noisier.

Karen

I’m very interested in hearing everyone’s thoughts on this. Janet has
indicated an interest in bring her truck full of stuff to Atlanta. At the
moment, I don’t really have anywhere to put her. Our space is at a premium.
Even though we have the entire convention area, it ain’t that big. I can
fit 14 tables and the doll exhibit into our dealer’s room. I could fit more
if I put tables down the middle of the room, but I am hoping to have enough
space for people to move comfortably. There is another space that I might
be able to get from the hotel, but it won’t be in the convention area, but
will be just off the hotel lobby. I would love for the folks here who don’t
have access to a G Street, or Alter Years or some other source for all the
historical patterns, accessories, etc, to have a chance to buy some of these
things. On the other hand, Poison Pen is already booked as one of the
dealers, and I hate to lessen her sales (even if it is “business”).

I’m not too keen on the “selling out of a hotel room” idea. I don’t think
you would do as well if folks had to find you and not have you right there
in the traffic flow. One of the reasons, besides space, that we are putting
the dolls in the dealers room is to increase the traffic for both.

Trudy

>From: Bruce & Nora Mai <casamai@sbcglobal.net>
>Reply-To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
>To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [runacc] Dealers Room
>Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 17:15:03 -0500
>
>This is a question for Henry, but I’d like hear input from the rest of you.
>
>Henry:
>
>Can you ask your Liason about any feedback they got about how the other
>dealers felt about Janet having a room all to herself? Our Liason feels
>very strongly that this was very unfair to them. My position is, if she’s
>willing to come with all her stuff, and pay appropriately, why not? How
>important is it for AlterYears to be part of a mix, no matter how much she
>brings? Is limiting all dealers to a certain number of tables inherently
>fair?
>
>Thanks.
>
>Bruce
>
>
>
>
>View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>runacc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

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From: “Ricky & Karen Dick” <castleb@pulsenet.com>

> Has CC ever considered doing what other S/F conventions have done–book a
> block of rooms on one floor of the hotel and turn them into Dealer’s Row?

I’ve been on the dealers’-table side of this.

It rots.

It rots big time.

I would never deal at a convention under these conditions again.

Having to turn one’s room into dealer space is bad. Folks knocking at all
hours makes it worse.

It’s a bad thing.

andy

I can see a good question here. It sounds like you are considering a space for Dealers similar to the size we were considering. And then I met one of our prospective dealers in action, and realized that a fabric vendor can take up twice the room I had figured.

We can expand into a larger space (the ballroom), which we may do, but it would be significantly more $. And I think we will try to limit the number of vendors while still trying to keep a good variety. (Since many of the vendors are probably coming in from out of area, they risk more. Local vendors at a local con have lower costs, and can use the exposure for publicity.)

And I think putting exhibits in/close to vendors is a good idea.

What’s the square footage of the room you were considering?

Charles

Message—–
From: Trudy Leonard <georgialei@hotmail.com>

I’m very interested in hearing everyone’s thoughts on this. Janet has

>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I think that both of these ideas are quite good. As most (if not all) of
you are aware, I seldom costume, and mostly work backstage in the Green
Room. Therefore, even though I’ve been to most CC’s from CC3 onward, as
well as many Worldcons and East Coast regionals, my perspective isn’t quite
the same as that of people who have been seasoned costumers for lo – these
many years. I thought that the newbie ribbons at CC16 were a GREAT idea,
and in fact have been rather surprised that it hasn’t been done (in any
organized sense) since.

For CC18 (I got stuck with doing all of the publications except the FFF) I
created a sort of “Hello new costumers” FAQ sheet. It did not,
unfortunately, address all aspects of CC’s, and at this point is somewhat
dated (for instance, the information regarding tape vs. CD for sound track),
and does not explain any of the jargon, such as stage right/stage left and
lighting terminalogy, but it was an attempt to answer a lot of the most
basic questions on one double-sided page. I’m attaching it, in both
WordPerfect and MSWord (ptooey!) formats, FYI. It might serve as a jumping
off point, or you may find bits of it worth including in a new and improved
equivalent.

Allison Pace’s comments, forwarded by Andy Trembley, were also quite
illuminating, and indeed, some sort of overview would also help to remind
the old guard what CC is all about — perhaps an inserted “Intro to CC”
sheet tucked inside the front cover of Progress Report 1 (and handed out
with later publications to new members who join after later PR’s are out).
There are, I am sure, other CC hangers-on such as myself who seldom appear
on stage and whose grasp of the more technical aspects is weak, at best.

Tina

—– Original Message —–
From: “Bruce & Nora Mai” <casamai@sbcglobal.net>
To: <runacc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2003 5:41 PM
Subject: [runacc] Newcomers

> Nora and I do some of our best brainstorming in the car while running
> errands. Nora had a couple of very good ideas I think folks ought to
> consider in the future:
>
> 1. Create a position like “Newbie Liason”. It’s sort of the same idea
that
> Betsy mentined of the “ambassadors”, only having one person specificaly
> charged iwth coming up with ideas to bring the vifgins more quickly into
the
> community.
>
> We had a new person from our group speak of how “exclusinve” the ICG felt
to
> her in her first CC experience (never mind that a lot of the CC attendees
> aren’t even ICG — she doesn’t understand the format yet). Well, I think
> she was expecting people to seek her out, and that’s generally not what
> people do as a rule. Sure, there are individuals who try to make an
effort,
> but they ususally can’t find them all or have the time because they’re
> con-goers themselves.
>
> For CC16, we had a ribbon or something to identify new people, and
> encouraged all the con-goers to approach them. Not sure how successful
that
> was specifically, but people liked the con. I had any number of people I
> didn’t know that stopped me to say they were having a great time.
>
> Anyway, expanding upon this idea, the Liason could maybe actually give a
> tour of the con. They would maybe start with a panel (find out who they
> are, where they come from, their backgrouind), then take them around and
> show them the Exhibits, the Dealers room, where the masqs and Green Room
> are, the Con Suite, what to expect at panels, etc. Also included would be
> some sort of “Meet the Vets” session, or at least buttonhole the “names”
of
> Costuming and introduce them to folks so they would have at least passing
> familiarity with people we all mention often in a group. And, that would
> include most of you here, like Ricky and Karen, Marty, the Hylls, Carl &
> Elaine, Jacqui, the Pettingers, the MacDermotts — people like that.
> Maybe the Liason could have a photo album with sample works, just in case.
> I think this would work better than a panel, because I just don’t think
> people would go to a panel of people telling all about themselves. Maybe
> this part could be done in the Con Suite at some point.
>
> I think this could be a fun job!
>
> 2. The other idea I wish we’d thought of before CC21, but maybe we can do
> it in the future. Frequently, the CC chairs will give away a membership
or
> two at various masq competitions to BIS winner(s) and/or the Most
Promising
> Novice (I love that award title). But they pretty much are a nobody when
> they come to a CC if they’ve never been before. So why not introduce them
> onstage at some point — like during the half-tim? We could could give a
> brief bio about them, what year, what they did, maybe even show a picture
or
> have them bring a part of their outfits if they aren’t competing.
>
> If we’re going to make a big deal about the fact that they won a
membership
> to a CC, let’s make sure it’s a big deal that they’re there.
>
> Bruce
>
>
>
>
> View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> runacc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

———-

WPCX

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Bruce, and all,
I believe that Jennifer Kelley is part of this group, but I will
forward your question to her, as well as Kyym Kimple, the guy who ran our
Dealers’ Room.
In my opinion, if dealer wants to “buy” half the area, so what?
Janet/AlterYears had a nice variety of stuff, so it worked out well. I’d have
a problem with a dealer buying so much space if the only had one item to
sell. One of the perks of having AlterYears there is that I have heard that
they sometimes have problems getting mail orders out, so you could buy it and
get it in your hands. I also remember Janet mentioning that CC21 was the
first CC she had been to in some time, but that is aside to the issue of the
Dealers’ Room.
The biggest thing that we, the CC21 staff, was concerned about was
having a balance of dealers. We didn’t want wall-to-wall garb dealers, all
with the same garb. That would be unfair to both dealers and attendees.
If I hear from Jennifer or Kyym about the subject, I’ll forward
their comments to the list.
Henry
PS Bruce & Nora, on a personal note, after going to your CC, the
Milwaukee CC21 staff really wanted to get Clearwater Hats, but they had
something else going that weekend!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 5/18/2003 5:15:58 PM Central Daylight Time,
casamai@sbcglobal.net writes:

> Does anyone have a list yet of the Historical Masq participants?

I have it stowed away in some file. I believe it also went out via the ICG
e-group as well. I’ll look around for it and send it out, unless someone else
beats me to it!
Henry

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

We’ve done this at regular cons, clown cons, and magic cons, and hopefully
will be doing it at Arisia this year.

We love.

We love it big time

I would always be willing to consider this

>Having to turn one’s room into dealer space is bad.

Turning youre room into a dealers room is great. makes your own hours, and
the more they partied at night the more they spent.

>Folks knocking at all
>hours makes it worse.

so we hung a sign on the door to explain things, but since we’re night owls
it wasn’t a problem.

>It’s a bad thing.

It’s wonderful

however, one big dealers room is still best, this is a way to expand if
you’re short on space.

Ricky

In a message dated 5/18/2003 9:12:30 PM Central Daylight Time,
castleb@pulsenet.com writes:

> Has CC ever considered doing what other S/F conventions have done–book a
> block of rooms on one floor of the hotel and turn them into Dealer’s Row?

I worked a convention in the Chicagoland area that only ran one year. It did
that. All those things you mentioned, like dealers set their own hours,
dressing rooms, bathrooms, were nice. But, on the down-side, they are limited
to area, and the con’s income suffers because of it. We set up our Dealers’
Room prices so that those rooms pay for themselves. A dealer like AlterYears
needed the space we had. Also, I know that the dealers like to socialize
amongst themselves and some we had lived close by, so they went home every
night and saved money.
At best, I see the Dealers’ Room vs. Dealers’ Row/Floor question as
a six-of-one,-half-dozen-of-the-other situation.
Henry Osier

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re Dealers’ Row versus Dealers’ Room –
Arisia does this and many of the dealers love it for all of the reasons
that Ricky mentioned. Those who don’t like it either go into the “main”
dealers’ room or don’t go to Arisia. Arisia is very lucky in that they
have the Park Plaza which is large enough that they can turn over half a
floor (or more) to a dealers’ row and then throw in a con suite and/or
green room and not disturb anyone who is not part of the convention. On
the other hand many hotels have said, “Absolutely NOT!” so it really
depends upon venue.

^M^

The only time I’ve seen the Dealer’s Row work well from a buyer perspective
(i.e’ not having to hunt down the section of the hotel they’re in) is as
KarenH mentioned before.
The rooms at the hotel in question has sliding glass doors on one side
(standard entrance at the other) which open out onto a boradwalk alongside
an enclosed pool/recreation atrium with a bar and tables. This worked well
because people were strolling through that area to get to other function
rooms and it worked a little like an open-air (albeit covered) bazaar. Very
nice, actually. But in most hotels it doesn’t seem to work very well.

Nora

My subjective impression is that CC dealers’ rooms have gotten smaller over the years and have come to have less variety of wares than they used to. I certainly hope that you can reverse that. The ability to list AlterYears in PRs as one of the confirmed dealers can be a very good draw, especially in an area that has less access to major costume supply sources.

I believe that, on the East Coast, Arisia is the only SF con that consistently has a dealers’ row of hotel rooms as well as a dealers’ room. While this arrangement certainly is convenient for dealers who can set their own hours, such dealers may have a disadvantage in comparison to those in the dealers’ room. I do know that there have been years when I have never gotten to Arisia’s dealers’ row but have concentrated on the dealers’ room. I wonder if others have had similar experiences.

I don’t know about putting the doll exhibit in the same room with the dealers. I would prefer to keep them separate, if possible, and put the dolls elsewhere, perhaps in thee same space as a costume exhibit, as CC 21 did. I say this because I am concerned that the dolls may get lost in the hubbub of a dealers’ room while, at the same time, eating up space the con otherwise could rent to additional dealers. The doll display may be an attraction that will bring in members, but the dealers’ room is one of the con’s few income centers and every available inch should be rented to dealers.

Byron

—– Original Message —–
From: Trudy Leonard
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, May 19, 2003 12:49 AM
Subject: Re: [runacc] Dealers Room

I’m very interested in hearing everyone’s thoughts on this. Janet has
indicated an interest in bring her truck full of stuff to Atlanta. At the
moment, I don’t really have anywhere to put her. Our space is at a premium.
Even though we have the entire convention area, it ain’t that big. I can
fit 14 tables and the doll exhibit into our dealer’s room. I could fit more
if I put tables down the middle of the room, but I am hoping to have enough
space for people to move comfortably. There is another space that I might
be able to get from the hotel, but it won’t be in the convention area, but
will be just off the hotel lobby. I would love for the folks here who don’t
have access to a G Street, or Alter Years or some other source for all the
historical patterns, accessories, etc, to have a chance to buy some of these
things. On the other hand, Poison Pen is already booked as one of the
dealers, and I hate to lessen her sales (even if it is “business”).

I’m not too keen on the “selling out of a hotel room” idea. I don’t think
you would do as well if folks had to find you and not have you right there
in the traffic flow. One of the reasons, besides space, that we are putting
the dolls in the dealers room is to increase the traffic for both.

Trudy

>From: Bruce & Nora Mai <casamai@sbcglobal.net>
>Reply-To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
>To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [runacc] Dealers Room
>Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 17:15:03 -0500
>
>This is a question for Henry, but I’d like hear input from the rest of you.
>
>Henry:
>
>Can you ask your Liason about any feedback they got about how the other
>dealers felt about Janet having a room all to herself? Our Liason feels
>very strongly that this was very unfair to them. My position is, if she’s
>willing to come with all her stuff, and pay appropriately, why not? How
>important is it for AlterYears to be part of a mix, no matter how much she
>brings? Is limiting all dealers to a certain number of tables inherently
>fair?
>
>Thanks.
>
>Bruce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

At 08:01 PM 5/19/2003 -0400, you wrote:

>I don’t know about putting the doll exhibit in the same room with the
>dealers. I would prefer to keep them separate, if possible, and put the
>dolls elsewhere, perhaps in thee same space as a costume exhibit, as CC 21
>did. I say this because I am concerned that the dolls may get lost in the
>hubbub of a dealers’ room while, at the same time, eating up space the con
>otherwise could rent to additional dealers. The doll display may be an
>attraction that will bring in members, but the dealers’ room is one of the
>con’s few income centers and every available inch should be rented to dealers.

Another comment along these same lines–

CC-4 mixed exhibits and dealers, and I was always afraid attendees wouldn’t
understand what was for sale and what wasn’t (this applies to the doll
contest also). Best to keep sales stuff and not for sale stuff separate.

–Karen

On Monday, May 19, 2003, at 06:09 PM, Ricky & Karen Dick wrote:

> CC-4 mixed exhibits and dealers, and I was always afraid attendees
> wouldn’t
> understand what was for sale and what wasn’t (this applies to the doll
> contest also). Best to keep sales stuff and not for sale stuff
> separate.

CC17 had the doll exhibit at one end of the dealers’ room. It was
fairly small, and obviously wasn’t connected to the dealers’ tables. Of
course, the dealers weren’t tightly packed into that space.

It was rather nice because the doll exhibit was very prominent, but I
can understand that how well this works is greatly dependent on the
space and the people.

If there’s tons of space, putting exhibits in the same room as dealers
can increase traffic through exhibits, and that’s a good thing. If
space is tight, putting exhibits in the same room as dealers will
result in confusion and a traffic jam, which is a bad thing.

I don’t think this is something we can answer in anything more than the
vaguest terms in our CC Runner’s Guide.

—
andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen
http://www.irlm.org/ – mailto:webmaster@irlm.org
“Anybody who takes this seriously deserves to”
— Donna Barr

I have to agree with Byron, from the shoppers’ point of view. At CC17, the
dolls were in the dealers’ room, and I saw many people pass them with a
glance while heading for the tables. Others, like myself, were in the way
of the shoppers as we tried to stand still and enjoy the display.

At CCs 16 & 21, I was able to enjoy the dolls and the exhibits in the
relative calm that the dealers’ room lacked.

Elaine

> My subjective impression is that CC dealers’ rooms have gotten smaller

over the years and have come to have less variety of wares than they used
to. I certainly hope that you can reverse that. The ability to list
AlterYears in PRs as one of the confirmed dealers can be a very good draw,
especially in an area that has less access to major costume supply sources.

>
> I believe that, on the East Coast, Arisia is the only SF con that

consistently has a dealers’ row of hotel rooms as well as a dealers’ room.
While this arrangement certainly is convenient for dealers who can set their
own hours, such dealers may have a disadvantage in comparison to those in
the dealers’ room. I do know that there have been years when I have never
gotten to Arisia’s dealers’ row but have concentrated on the dealers’ room.
I wonder if others have had similar experiences.

>
> I don’t know about putting the doll exhibit in the same room with the

dealers. I would prefer to keep them separate, if possible, and put the
dolls elsewhere, perhaps in thee same space as a costume exhibit, as CC 21
did. I say this because I am concerned that the dolls may get lost in the
hubbub of a dealers’ room while, at the same time, eating up space the con
otherwise could rent to additional dealers. The doll display may be an
attraction that will bring in members, but the dealers’ room is one of the
con’s few income centers and every available inch should be rented to
dealers.

>
> Byron

Well, for starters, what would Janet think about being put in a room away from the other dealers’ room? Or are you saying that there is a larger room off the lobby which would accommodate bothe Alter Years and the other dealers as well? Off the lobby could have its advantages. BTW, I looked pretty closely at the books offered by both Poison Pen and Alter Years (as did Byron) and there really wasn’t a lot of overlap. It was nice having the extra variety. I bought books from both of them. And speaking of variety, FABRIC! We hardly ever see it in dealers rooms. If you can get a fabric dealer in, that would be a good thing! (Assuming the dealer has decent stuff.)

Incidentally, if I were making the decision I wouldn’t put the dolls in Dealers. Too much chance for them to get damaged, and if they’re near a popular dealer, not very accessible after all.

Tina

—– Original Message —–
From: Trudy Leonard
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, May 19, 2003 12:49 AM
Subject: Re: [runacc] Dealers Room

I’m very interested in hearing everyone’s thoughts on this. Janet has
indicated an interest in bring her truck full of stuff to Atlanta. At the
moment, I don’t really have anywhere to put her. Our space is at a premium.
Even though we have the entire convention area, it ain’t that big. I can
fit 14 tables and the doll exhibit into our dealer’s room. I could fit more
if I put tables down the middle of the room, but I am hoping to have enough
space for people to move comfortably. There is another space that I might
be able to get from the hotel, but it won’t be in the convention area, but
will be just off the hotel lobby. I would love for the folks here who don’t
have access to a G Street, or Alter Years or some other source for all the
historical patterns, accessories, etc, to have a chance to buy some of these
things. On the other hand, Poison Pen is already booked as one of the
dealers, and I hate to lessen her sales (even if it is “business”).

I’m not too keen on the “selling out of a hotel room” idea. I don’t think
you would do as well if folks had to find you and not have you right there
in the traffic flow. One of the reasons, besides space, that we are putting
the dolls in the dealers room is to increase the traffic for both.

Trudy

>From: Bruce & Nora Mai <casamai@sbcglobal.net>
>Reply-To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
>To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [runacc] Dealers Room
>Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 17:15:03 -0500
>
>This is a question for Henry, but I’d like hear input from the rest of you.
>
>Henry:
>
>Can you ask your Liason about any feedback they got about how the other
>dealers felt about Janet having a room all to herself? Our Liason feels
>very strongly that this was very unfair to them. My position is, if she’s
>willing to come with all her stuff, and pay appropriately, why not? How
>important is it for AlterYears to be part of a mix, no matter how much she
>brings? Is limiting all dealers to a certain number of tables inherently
>fair?
>
>Thanks.
>
>Bruce
>
>
>
>
>View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>runacc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I attached the files, but they went off into Never-Never Land, so I’m trying
again.

Tina

—– Original Message —–
From: “Tina Connell” <cvconnel@nycap.rr.com>
To: <runacc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, May 19, 2003 7:34 AM
Subject: Re: [runacc] Newcomers

(snip)

For CC18 (I got stuck with doing all of the publications except the FFF) I
created a sort of “Hello new costumers” FAQ sheet. It did not,
unfortunately, address all aspects of CC’s, and at this point is somewhat
dated (for instance, the information regarding tape vs. CD for sound track),
and does not explain any of the jargon, such as stage right/stage left and
lighting terminalogy, but it was an attempt to answer a lot of the most
basic questions on one double-sided page. I’m attaching it, in both
WordPerfect and MSWord (ptooey!) formats, FYI. It might serve as a jumping
off point, or you may find bits of it worth including in a new and improved
equivalent.

———-

WPCX

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tina,

I’m not sure that Yahoo groups will permit enclosures. Note the
“Non-Text” message below.

Les
—

Live, never to be ashamed if everything you do is published around the
world. Even if what is published is not true. — Richard Bach

—

On Tuesday, May 20, 2003, at 06:46 AM, Tina Connell wrote:

> I attached the files, but they went off into Never-Never Land, so I’m
> trying
> again.
>
> Tina
>
>

…

> ———-
>
> ÿWPCX
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> ———————— Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ———————~–>
> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life’s Important
> Questions.
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/uetFAA/xX1wlB/TM
> ———————————————————————
> ~->
>
> View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> runacc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

That’s correct. There is, however, a file transfer/upload facility available
through the main page of Yahoo Groups.

Go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/runacc/ and you will find all the options
available to the members of this list on the left side of the window.

You may create folders, upload files and do all sorts of other nifty stuff
right there.

The system will even let people know when a file has been uploaded to the
system.

Cool, huh?

Betsy

On Tue, 20 May 2003 07:57:06 -0500, Les Roth wrote

> Tina,
>
> I’m not sure that Yahoo groups will permit enclosures. Note the
> “Non-Text” message below.
>
> Les

—
Betsy R. Delaney
Web Mistress at large
WebInvent.com, Inc.

************************************************************************
www.WebInvent.com * www.Costume-Con.org * www.hawkeswood.com
************************************************************************

Hello!
I got this response from Kyym Kimple, the guy who ran our Dealers’
Room at CC21.
Henry Osier

Henry
The Dealers at CC 21 were some of the nicest people I have encountered
in my convention career. I can honestly say that no dealer had any problem
with how the dealers area was set up. The truth be known many of the dealers
were happy to have AlterYears in attendances. Most of the if not all of the
dealers showed a profit from the convention.I believe if convention
organizers would consider what’s good for the attendees and treat the dealers
they have in attendance as the valuable commodity that they are than they
will have as good a convention as we had. The only feedback that I received
from any of the dealers was positive, during and after the convention. So if
the people observing from the outside feel that the dealers room should have
allowed equality in the number of tables each dealer is allowed instead of
quality of vendors perhaps they should consider who the convention is being
done for the attendees or the poltically correct non-attendees.

Kyym

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The only thing I didn’t like about the CC-21 dealer’s room took place
before the con: the “juried” method of selecting dealers.

As a self-employed businessperson (as most dealers are), money is always
tight. There was NO WAY I was going to pay for dealer space in advance and
then wait *months* for the committee to decide if I actually could vend at
the con or not.

Anybody else have thoughts on a “juried” vs. “first come, first served”
approach?

–Karen

At 11:33 AM 5/20/2003 -0400, you wrote:

>Hello!
> I got this response from Kyym Kimple, the guy who ran our Dealers’
>Room at CC21.
> Henry Osier

At 07:16 AM 5/20/2003 -0400, you wrote:

> And speaking of variety, FABRIC! We hardly ever see it in dealers
> rooms. If you can get a fabric dealer in, that would be a good
> thing! (Assuming the dealer has decent stuff.)

CC-3 had two fabric dealers, and I bought from both of them.

CCXV had Timeless Textiles (also somebody with vintage “ethnic” textiles)
and I think they did a boffo business.

Obviously, fabric can take up a LOT of space in a very short time, and
local fabric stores may not be keen on packing up their inventory to schlep
to a con. But fabric always does well.

–Karen

The reason that we went with the juried approach was to eliminate dealers
with the table full of action figures and ones with stuff that wasn’t
costuming orientated. We felt that this was fair to the dealers, who want to
make money, and the attendees.
Henry Osier

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

At 11:50 AM 5/20/2003 -0400, you wrote:

>The reason that we went with the juried approach was to eliminate dealers
>with the table full of action figures and ones with stuff that wasn’t
>costuming orientated.

I don’t think any Costume-Con has ever had non-costuming oriented dealers
apply for space.

Anyone?

–Karen