Now that Denvention is over, Andy and I finally have a chance to breathe
(case in point: Tuesday I excavated the dining room table — our only
eating table — out from under a year’s worth of crap so we can eat at
it again.).

And, now that I can breathe I’m wrapping up some CC26 chores.

(Before you ask, yes, one of them is getting those blasted Parallel
Dimension in Design certificates mailed, as well the one or two still
left from the masquerades that had to be re-done. I’ve actually been
taking them with me to conventions to hand off in person as much as
possible, but with Worldcon over, now I have to actually resort to the
Post Awful).

One of the happy chores is working up the spreadsheet of contact info
for members who gave us permission to pass it forward to future
Costume-Cons.
So, to whom should I send it for CC27, CC28, and CC29?

At this point, I have about 600 names from the online registration
system with permission to pass along. There is some question whether
the question was asked properly on the paper forms, so Linda (our
registrar) is going back to check before I can release any of those 250
names.

Kevin

In a message dated 8/29/2008 5:26:35 PM Central Daylight Time, chair@cc26.org
writes:

> One of the happy chores is working up the spreadsheet of contact info
> for members who gave us permission to pass it forward to future
> Costume-Cons.
> So, to whom should I send it for CC27, CC28, and CC29?

Me!
Henry Osier
Chief Spy
Costume-Con 28 in Milwaukee in 2010
www.CC28.org
View the latest Intell: http://agent-milw.livejournal.com/
Questions?: http://community.livejournal.com/costume_con_28/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have have sent the spreadsheet onto Henry.

To whom else should I forward it? I don’t really want to just put it
into the YahooGroup filespace.

The on-site forms did not have the permission field included on them (an
unexpected consequence of our on-site staff being almost all from one of
our local recurring conventions; they of course always share their reg.
data with themselves, so it didn’t occur to them that we needed to
record that data), so the spreadsheet has the approx 550 pre-registered
members who gave us permission.

Kevin

osierhenry@cs.com wrote:

>
> In a message dated 8/29/2008 5:26:35 PM Central Daylight Time,
> chair@cc26.org <mailto:chair%40cc26.org>
> writes:
> > One of the happy chores is working up the spreadsheet of contact info
> > for members who gave us permission to pass it forward to future
> > Costume-Cons.
> > So, to whom should I send it for CC27, CC28, and CC29?
> Me!
> Henry Osier
> Chief Spy
> Costume-Con 28 in Milwaukee in 2010
> www.CC28.org
> View the latest Intell: http://agent-milw.livejournal.com/
> <http://agent-milw.livejournal.com/>
> Questions?: http://community.livejournal.com/costume_con_28/
> <http://community.livejournal.com/costume_con_28/>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

After scanning a few hundred photos for the Gallery I’d like to offer a
suggestion for future CC photographers.

Most photographers use a variation of grey for backdrops – light grey,
medium grey, dark grey – all of which have a problem with either the pale
costumes or the dark ones (and there’s a lot of white & black costumes out
there folks – believe me!). Even the medium greys tend to either contrast
too much or not enough.

My suggestion? Brown. Check out Sandy Middleton’s photos from Arisia on the
Gallery. The mottled brown he uses seems to provide a more uniform contrast
to most of the costumes.

Just a thought for when your picking out a photographer – see what colors he
has cause something other than grey would be nice.

Nora

I just mailed pass-along checks from CC26 to the chairs of CC27, CC28,
and CC29
(Lisa wanted me to get them postmarked by today if possible for tax
reasons.).

Let me know when they turn up, if you can.

Happy Holidays!

Kevin

In a message dated 12/31/2008 5:19:05 PM Central Standard Time,
chair@cc26.org writes:

> I just mailed pass-along checks from CC26 to the chairs of CC27, CC28,
> and CC29
> (Lisa wanted me to get them postmarked by today if possible for tax
> reasons.).
>
> Let me know when they turn up, if you can.
>
>
>
>
>

Will do, Kevin!

Henry

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

There wasn’t a lot of twitter activity regarding CC27, but there was
some.

http://search.twitter.com/search?q=%23cc27
(people using the #cc27 “hashtag,” but only a few of us were)

http://search.twitter.com/search?q=%22costume+con%22
(tweets that contain “costume-con” and “costume con”)

http://search.twitter.com/search?q=costumecon
(tweets that contain “costumecon”)

This only gets public tweets. Mostly positive comments. A few not-so-
positive (like this link in @hullacostumes: <http://makotohanabi.livejournal.com/15515.html

>). Following links back to twitter streams of people found in this

search will get you more discussion.

andy

While that last person’s criticisms had some validity (mainly about the
cliques in some quarters), they apparently didn’t talk to many other people
and is unfairly painting the entire con with a broad brush. Their two words
for the con were “high school”. My two words from them are “close-minded”.

Bruce

> —–Original Message—–
> From: runacc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:runacc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> Andrew T Trembley
> Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2009 5:05 PM
> To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [runacc] Twitter was kind of active this weekend…
>
> This only gets public tweets. Mostly positive comments. A few not-so-
> positive (like this link in @hullacostumes:
> <http://makotohanabi.livejournal.com/15515.html
> >). Following links back to twitter streams of people found in this
> search will get you more discussion.
>
> andy

And apparently s/he can’t handle being told they might not be right in all things, as the ability to comment has now been removed (as have all comments already made). So much for the courage of their convictions, huh?

Karen

— In runacc@yahoogroups.com, “Bruce & Nora Mai” <casamai@…> wrote:
>
> While that last person’s criticisms had some validity (mainly about the
> cliques in some quarters), they apparently didn’t talk to many other people
> and is unfairly painting the entire con with a broad brush. Their two words
> for the con were “high school”. My two words from them are “close-minded”.
>
>
> Bruce
>
> > —–Original Message—–
> > From: runacc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:runacc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> > Andrew T Trembley
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2009 5:05 PM
> > To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [runacc] Twitter was kind of active this weekend…
> >
> > This only gets public tweets. Mostly positive comments. A few not-so-
> > positive (like this link in @hullacostumes:
> > <http://makotohanabi.livejournal.com/15515.html
> > >). Following links back to twitter streams of people found in this
> > search will get you more discussion.
> >
> > andy
>

Bruce & Nora Mai wrote:

> While that last person’s criticisms had some validity (mainly about the
> cliques in some quarters), they apparently didn’t talk to many other people
> and is unfairly painting the entire con with a broad brush. Their two words
> for the con were “high school”. My two words from them are “close-minded”.
>

Never said it was fair, or even representative. It’s just a personal report.

It is, however, someone that an acquaintance of mine out in Baltimore
(who works in the big green building across the parking lot from the
Crown Plaza, and who attended and had a great time) knows from local
conventions.

Because of that, I knew about it before the link showed up on twitter.
Surprised me, I figured nobody read that journal. Unfortunately, on
twitter it showed up linked by someone who has around 900 followers.

Not much that can be done about that, but I expect that all the happy,
chirpy posts from folks who had fun will balance things out.

andy

So, over on the SLUTs list, a bit of interesting discussion popped up that
has been brought up before.

Our (meaning the Costume-Con community) philosophy is “Excellence Deserves
Recognition”. This applies to everything except for the Future Fashion Show
– there’s usually only the “Most accurate to Self” and “Most Accurate – not
by the Designer”. Nora and I are more traditionalists on this, and while
we don’t object to a couple of other awards, we think things should stay
essentially as they are. At least one of our people has said if she was
ever in a position to judge for the FFS again, she essentially said she
would ignore the standard model and give out as many awards to people she
believed deserved them.

Our general thinking is:

The FFS is not a competition in the same sense as a masquerade. But I think
some folks look at it that way.

The competition was the Folio. The challenge at the Show is for people to
reproduce the designs as faithfully as possible – not to take someone’s
design and use it as a jumping off point. My perception is that the
designer should be pleased with bringing their drawing to life as they
visualized it. Rewarding anything that fell short but looks pretty
seems…..I dunno….less than faithful to the intent of the show.

The Fashion Show is more relaxed – much like the Single Pattern show.
Making it more of a standard competition has the potential of ratcheting up
the pressure.

Frequently, the Folio has designs that are more costume than clothing – too
many more awards might skew this further, I would think. Where do you draw
the line, then? Would you have to adopt the 33% rule? Where do you draw
the line? On the other extreme, there is a danger of the whole “give
everyone an award that deserves it” more easily getting out of hand.

I’d be interested in hearing what some of you – especially Karen D. – think.

Bruce

Apparently they didn’t like being challenged.

Bruce

> —–Original Message—–
> From: runacc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:runacc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> axejudge
> Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 11:19 AM
> To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [runacc] Re: Twitter was kind of active this weekend…
>
> And apparently s/he can’t handle being told they might not be right in all

things, as

> the ability to comment has now been removed (as have all comments already
> made). So much for the courage of their convictions, huh?
>
> Karen
>
> — In runacc@yahoogroups.com, “Bruce & Nora Mai” <casamai@…> wrote:
> >
> > While that last person’s criticisms had some validity (mainly about the
> > cliques in some quarters), they apparently didn’t talk to many other

people

> > and is unfairly painting the entire con with a broad brush. Their two

words

> > for the con were “high school”. My two words from them are

“close-minded”.

> >
> >
> > Bruce
> >
> > > —–Original Message—–
> > > From: runacc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:runacc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of
> > > Andrew T Trembley
> > > Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2009 5:05 PM
> > > To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [runacc] Twitter was kind of active this weekend…
> > >
> > > This only gets public tweets. Mostly positive comments. A few not-so-
> > > positive (like this link in @hullacostumes:
> > > <http://makotohanabi.livejournal.com/15515.html
> > > >). Following links back to twitter streams of people found in this
> > > search will get you more discussion.
> > >
> > > andy
> >
>
>
>
>
> ————————————
>
> View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/Yahoo!

Groups

> Links
>
>
>

Her post is so weird to me I can’t say I know her as a close friend, but she’s often around east coast cons, not just anime, and always friendly, and always stops to chat, and never seems full of young cosplayers angst or anything.

Very odd, would never have thought it, and she certainly voiced no problems, nor gave me the cold shoulder at the con.

hey, no con is perfect, but plenty of other folks I only know a little, had no problem coming up to me to voice their ‘opinions’ on how things were going 😉

So I am confused

Ricky

________________________________

Apparently they didn’t like being challenged.

Bruce

>
> And apparently s/he can’t handle being told they might not be right in all

things, as

> the ability to comment has now been removed (as have all comments already
> made). So much for the courage of their convictions, huh?
>
> Karen
>
> — In runacc@yahoogroups. com, “Bruce & Nora Mai” <casamai@… > wrote:
> >
> > While that last person’s criticisms had some validity (mainly about the
> > cliques in some quarters), they apparently didn’t talk to many other

people

> > and is unfairly painting the entire con with a broad brush. Their two

words

> > for the con were “high school”. My two words from them are

“close-minded” .

> >
> >
> > Bruce
> >
> > > —–Original Message—–
> > > From: runacc@yahoogroups. com [mailto:runacc@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf
> Of
> > > Andrew T Trembley
> > > Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2009 5:05 PM
> > > To: runacc@yahoogroups. com
> > > Subject: [runacc] Twitter was kind of active this weekend…
> > >
> > > This only gets public tweets. Mostly positive comments. A few not-so-
> > > positive (like this link in @hullacostumes:
> > > <http://makotohanabi .livejournal. com/15515. html
> > > >). Following links back to twitter streams of people found in this
> > > search will get you more discussion.
> > >
> > > andy
> >
>
>
>
>
> ———— ——— ——— ——
>
> View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/Yahoo!

Groups

> Links
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Eh, sometimes you just have to accept that one con isn’t always everyone’s
cup of tea. Sad that it couldn’t just be expressed that way.

On Sat, May 9, 2009 at 12:36 PM, Gravely MacCabre <gravelymac@yahoo.com>wrote:

> Her post is so weird to me I can’t say I know her as a close friend, but
> she’s often around east coast cons, not just anime, and always friendly, and
> always stops to chat, and never seems full of young cosplayers angst or
> anything.
>
> Very odd, would never have thought it, and she certainly voiced no
> problems, nor gave me the cold shoulder at the con.
>
> hey, no con is perfect, but plenty of other folks I only know a little, had
> no problem coming up to me to voice their ‘opinions’ on how things were
> going 😉
>
> So I am confused
>
>
> Ricky
>
>
> ________________________________
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I think Fashion Show awards should be minimal.

Like you said– Best as executed by Designer and Best as executed by Non-Designer.

The real competition was the design contest, and getting into the folio, so the participants are already making up designs that have won something.

Think of the FFS as a showcase, and fun, vs. OMG another competition.

But I can see where some will not want to put forth the time and effort unless there are multiple awards involved.

If somebody has a better model, let’s hear discussion.

Back in the day (Trek conventions in the 80’s run by Bjo Triimble), there were NO awards for being in the FFS–it was just a cool way to make another costume for the convention and be on stage a second time.

–Karen

—– Original Message —–
From: Bruce & Nora Mai
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 1:24 PM
Subject: [runacc] Future Fashion Show Awards

So, over on the SLUTs list, a bit of interesting discussion popped up that
has been brought up before.

Our (meaning the Costume-Con community) philosophy is “Excellence Deserves
Recognition”. This applies to everything except for the Future Fashion Show
– there’s usually only the “Most accurate to Self” and “Most Accurate – not
by the Designer”. Nora and I are more traditionalists on this, and while
we don’t object to a couple of other awards, we think things should stay
essentially as they are. At least one of our people has said if she was
ever in a position to judge for the FFS again, she essentially said she
would ignore the standard model and give out as many awards to people she
believed deserved them.

Our general thinking is:

The FFS is not a competition in the same sense as a masquerade. But I think
some folks look at it that way.

The competition was the Folio. The challenge at the Show is for people to
reproduce the designs as faithfully as possible – not to take someone’s
design and use it as a jumping off point. My perception is that the
designer should be pleased with bringing their drawing to life as they
visualized it. Rewarding anything that fell short but looks pretty
seems…..I dunno….less than faithful to the intent of the show.

The Fashion Show is more relaxed – much like the Single Pattern show.
Making it more of a standard competition has the potential of ratcheting up
the pressure.

Frequently, the Folio has designs that are more costume than clothing – too
many more awards might skew this further, I would think. Where do you draw
the line, then? Would you have to adopt the 33% rule? Where do you draw
the line? On the other extreme, there is a danger of the whole “give
everyone an award that deserves it” more easily getting out of hand.

I’d be interested in hearing what some of you – especially Karen D. – think.

Bruce

——————————————————————————

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG – www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.287 / Virus Database: 270.12.23/2106 – Release Date: 05/09/09 06:54:00

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I agree 100%! I love the less-a-contest aspect of the FFS.

I think my pesky Single Pattern Competition helped muddy the waters
because it does have more awards, and then the pieces were put often on
the same runway as the Future Fashion Show pieces.

Waxing pedantic: considering this from a presentation/informatics point
of view: the audience isn’t necessarily going to care/process the
information that they were seeing the end results of two different
competition/construction processes ending up on one stage; they’re just
going to hear a bunch of awards at the Fashion Show unless the script
really explains it in words of small syllables. (That’s not intended as
a slam; the show engages our visual/spacial thought processes while
really considering the rules, etc engages the literal/math processes.
It’s hard to slam back and forth between them when you are in the
audience receiving the information).

(I’ve learned a lot more about this since kicking off the SPC at CC12 as
I’ve done more public speaking/science presentations, especially
comparing the general audience talks that I do with the usually ghastly
technical presentations I have to sit through. I’d never made the
award/contest confusion connection in my head before!)

Kevin

Ricky & Karen Dick wrote:

>
>
> I think Fashion Show awards should be minimal.
>
> Like you said– Best as executed by Designer and Best as executed by
> Non-Designer.
>
> The real competition was the design contest, and getting into the
> folio, so the participants are already making up designs that have won
> something.
>
> Think of the FFS as a showcase, and fun, vs. OMG another competition.
>
> But I can see where some will not want to put forth the time and
> effort unless there are multiple awards involved.
>
> If somebody has a better model, let’s hear discussion.
>
> Back in the day (Trek conventions in the 80’s run by Bjo Triimble),
> there were NO awards for being in the FFS–it was just a cool way to
> make another costume for the convention and be on stage a second time.
>
> –Karen
>
> _,_._,___

People seemed to LOVE the Single Pattern being combined with the Social, so that may be the solution to the confusion of mixing Single Pattern and FFS on Sunday.

I think Single Pattern is a really cool concept (thanks, Kevin!), and want to make sure it stays in the mix at CC.

–Karen

—– Original Message —–
From: Kevin Roche, Costume-Con 26 Chair
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 6:03 PM
Subject: Re: [runacc] Future Fashion Show Awards

I agree 100%! I love the less-a-contest aspect of the FFS.

I think my pesky Single Pattern Competition helped muddy the waters
because it does have more awards, and then the pieces were put often on
the same runway as the Future Fashion Show pieces.

Waxing pedantic: considering this from a presentation/informatics point
of view: the audience isn’t necessarily going to care/process the
information that they were seeing the end results of two different
competition/construction processes ending up on one stage; they’re just
going to hear a bunch of awards at the Fashion Show unless the script
really explains it in words of small syllables. (That’s not intended as
a slam; the show engages our visual/spacial thought processes while
really considering the rules, etc engages the literal/math processes.
It’s hard to slam back and forth between them when you are in the
audience receiving the information).

(I’ve learned a lot more about this since kicking off the SPC at CC12 as
I’ve done more public speaking/science presentations, especially
comparing the general audience talks that I do with the usually ghastly
technical presentations I have to sit through. I’d never made the
award/contest confusion connection in my head before!)

Kevin

Ricky & Karen Dick wrote:
>
>
> I think Fashion Show awards should be minimal.
>
> Like you said– Best as executed by Designer and Best as executed by
> Non-Designer.
>
> The real competition was the design contest, and getting into the
> folio, so the participants are already making up designs that have won
> something.
>
> Think of the FFS as a showcase, and fun, vs. OMG another competition.
>
> But I can see where some will not want to put forth the time and
> effort unless there are multiple awards involved.
>
> If somebody has a better model, let’s hear discussion.
>
> Back in the day (Trek conventions in the 80’s run by Bjo Triimble),
> there were NO awards for being in the FFS–it was just a cool way to
> make another costume for the convention and be on stage a second time.
>
> –Karen
>
> _,_._,___

——————————————————————————

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG – www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.287 / Virus Database: 270.12.23/2106 – Release Date: 05/09/09 06:54:00

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Karen Wrote:

People seemed to LOVE the Single Pattern being combined with the Social,
****Thanks. If always loves single pattern, just hated the perception that it was hurting the fashion show, So the thought of picking patterns that could, if people wanted, be made up into our theme, and done at the social, seemed worth a try, and something that had a very small chance of failure
I must admit that I did it fir two reasons.
1st to see if the fashion show would be in good shape without it
2nd, to give a bit of focus for people to make something new for friday night.

I did originally think it would be DURING the actual social, and that at some point, folks would walk a stage/platform, something, like we did in
des moines for people simply showing off their movie based costumes.

While i never expected it to turn into a fourth masquerade ( almost)

when we asked Ann and Ric to Run it, we gave them a wide berth, as we did ALL our committee heads, and my thought is that they felt it deserved a little more attention, than I originally did.
And I think Marty and I were right in letting them do as they pleased, it was a nice way to start the weekend, and I believe there were more entries in
single pattern than either the historical or the fashion show. Hey, apples and oranges there in some ways, so not fair to compare, but I think there was 31 single patterns, so, yup, they deserved the extra effort that Ric and Ann gave them.

the only complaint was sound. easily fixed next time.
Ricky

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

It definitely seemed like separating the SP from the Fashion Show was a good
idea. I like the idea of it being part of the Social. The problem with the
SP this time was a number of people were not aware of it going on. Also,
the show was not officially covered by video.

But that is another discussion. I would like to return to my original
question for more discussion, re: multiple awards in the FFS.

I thought of two additional problems:

First, I would be insulted if someone “re-imagined” my design because they
didn’t like something about it, changed it so it only partially looked like
my sketch, and yet got an award for it.

Second, I would think that multiple awards would necessitate the imposition
of the Skills Divisions to make it more fair for the novice sewers vs.
people who’ve been doing these for a very long time.

Bruce

> —–Original Message—–
> From: runacc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:runacc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> Gravely MacCabre
> Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 6:44 PM
> To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [runacc] Future Fashion Show Awards/singlepattern
>
>
>
>
>
> Karen Wrote:
>
> People seemed to LOVE the Single Pattern being combined with the Social,
> ****Thanks. If always loves single pattern, just hated the perception that

it was

> hurting the fashion show, So the thought of picking patterns that could,

if people

> wanted, be made up into our theme, and done at the social, seemed worth a

try,

> and something that had a very small chance of failure
> I must admit that I did it fir two reasons.
> 1st to see if the fashion show would be in good shape without it
> 2nd, to give a bit of focus for people to make something new for friday

night.

>
> I did originally think it would be DURING the actual social, and that at

some point,

> folks would walk a stage/platform, something, like we did in
> des moines for people simply showing off their movie based costumes.
>
> While i never expected it to turn into a fourth masquerade ( almost)
>
> when we asked Ann and Ric to Run it, we gave them a wide berth, as we did

ALL

> our committee heads, and my thought is that they felt it deserved a little

more

> attention, than I originally did.
> And I think Marty and I were right in letting them do as they pleased, it

was a nice

> way to start the weekend, and I believe there were more entries in
> single pattern than either the historical or the fashion show. Hey, apples

and oranges

> there in some ways, so not fair to compare, but I think there was 31

single patterns,

> so, yup, they deserved the extra effort that Ric and Ann gave them.
>
> the only complaint was sound. easily fixed next time.
> Ricky

Bruce,’

sorry for the topic highjack.

awards,
I think the basic 2 is fine, I am also cool with a BIS and a BIS workmanship.

I still chuckle at the silliness of me getting a workmanship award at cc-9 for the 4=5 sequin appliqué stars I made for Patty Gills American Flag dress for her.
nice to be appreciated and thanks, but sorta un unnecessary

so is this something we are trying to get a leadership council type feel for, and then hope fashion show directors might take advice?

I don’t know who is running the show for 28, but Jill Eastlake is for 29 I believe

so how do they learn what the council elders ( not taking that seriously, very tongue and cheek) think is best.
and how do we back off from the excellence deserves reward that so many of us have been singing for so long, in this one instance, or do you want it put into the cc constitution, which would not take effect till cc-31.

just wondering where the discussion leads us.

Gravely MacCabre
http://www.castleblood.com
http://www.midnightmonsterhop.com
http://www.myspace.com/thecastleblood
http://www.myspace.com/midnightmonsterhop
clip samples at
http://www.veoh.com/channels/castleblood

________________________________
From: Bruce & Nora Mai <casamai@sbcglobal.net>
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2009 8:15:45 PM
Subject: RE: [runacc] Future Fashion Show Awards/singlepattern

It definitely seemed like separating the SP from the Fashion Show was a good
idea. I like the idea of it being part of the Social. The problem with the
SP this time was a number of people were not aware of it going on. Also,
the show was not officially covered by video.

But that is another discussion. I would like to return to my original
question for more discussion, re: multiple awards in the FFS.

I thought of two additional problems:

First, I would be insulted if someone “re-imagined” my design because they
didn’t like something about it, changed it so it only partially looked like
my sketch, and yet got an award for it.

Second, I would think that multiple awards would necessitate the imposition
of the Skills Divisions to make it more fair for the novice sewers vs.
people who’ve been doing these for a very long time.

Bruce

> —–Original Message—–
> From: runacc@yahoogroups. com [mailto:runacc@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of
> Gravely MacCabre
> Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 6:44 PM
> To: runacc@yahoogroups. com
> Subject: Re: [runacc] Future Fashion Show Awards/singlepatter n
>
>
>
>
>
> Karen Wrote:
>
> People seemed to LOVE the Single Pattern being combined with the Social,
> ****Thanks. If always loves single pattern, just hated the perception that

it was

> hurting the fashion show, So the thought of picking patterns that could,

if people

> wanted, be made up into our theme, and done at the social, seemed worth a

try,

> and something that had a very small chance of failure
> I must admit that I did it fir two reasons.
> 1st to see if the fashion show would be in good shape without it
> 2nd, to give a bit of focus for people to make something new for friday

night.

>
> I did originally think it would be DURING the actual social, and that at

some point,

> folks would walk a stage/platform, something, like we did in
> des moines for people simply showing off their movie based costumes.
>
> While i never expected it to turn into a fourth masquerade ( almost)
>
> when we asked Ann and Ric to Run it, we gave them a wide berth, as we did

ALL

> our committee heads, and my thought is that they felt it deserved a little

more

> attention, than I originally did.
> And I think Marty and I were right in letting them do as they pleased, it

was a nice

> way to start the weekend, and I believe there were more entries in
> single pattern than either the historical or the fashion show. Hey, apples

and oranges

> there in some ways, so not fair to compare, but I think there was 31

single patterns,

> so, yup, they deserved the extra effort that Ric and Ann gave them.
>
> the only complaint was sound. easily fixed next time.
> Ricky

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I think Eric Cannon video’d it so there is some hope.
if it is to be a separate thing, some amount of regular Masq tech needs to be part of it.

it would be nice if the main stage was set, and the ball room was used for the social, but I’m sure from hotel to hotel, there are many ways around this.

first time out, not to bad, next time some one tries it, they’ll be in good shape.
PLUS, it all depends on what patterns are picked, and how generic they can be made.

Folks likeJacqui will always go off chart somewhere great, but most people want something relatively easy they can do some cool embellishment on.

Gravely MacCabre
http://www.castleblood.com
http://www.midnightmonsterhop.com
http://www.myspace.com/thecastleblood
http://www.myspace.com/midnightmonsterhop
clip samples at
http://www.veoh.com/channels/castleblood

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have to admit I liked the idea of it being done like a cafe fashion
show… with the pieces being presented in the social while folks were
there, with a route between the tables and a platform or two for focus.

If you could have fixed lighting instruments to highlight those (small)
risers, it could be a very effective and intimate way to both show off
the Single Pattern entries and encourage social mixing.

Kevin

Gravely MacCabre wrote:

>
>
> I think Eric Cannon video’d it so there is some hope.
> if it is to be a separate thing, some amount of regular Masq tech
> needs to be part of it.
>
> it would be nice if the main stage was set, and the ball room was used
> for the social, but I’m sure from hotel to hotel, there are many ways
> around this.
>

Kevin,
I agree,intimate, fun, and a different viewpoint than just another stage event.

My only concern is with the way we MIGHT have done that, would people actually shut up during the social to do it, so to give the entrants a bit of respect.
just comes to mind, in the face of Thomas Atkinson haveing trouble even getting 25 year cc vets to pipe down while he was trying to run some contest things at the social. most people didn’t care.

Gravely MacCabre
http://www.castleblood.com
http://www.midnightmonsterhop.com
http://www.myspace.com/thecastleblood
http://www.myspace.com/midnightmonsterhop
clip samples at
http://www.veoh.com/channels/castleblood

________________________________
From: “Kevin Roche, Costume-Con 26 Chair” <chair@cc26.org>
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2009 9:03:33 PM
Subject: Re: [runacc] single pattern

I have to admit I liked the idea of it being done like a cafe fashion
show… with the pieces being presented in the social while folks were
there, with a route between the tables and a platform or two for focus.

If you could have fixed lighting instruments to highlight those (small)
risers, it could be a very effective and intimate way to both show off
the Single Pattern entries and encourage social mixing.

Kevin

Gravely MacCabre wrote:

>
>
> I think Eric Cannon video’d it so there is some hope.
> if it is to be a separate thing, some amount of regular Masq tech
> needs to be part of it.
>
> it would be nice if the main stage was set, and the ball room was used
> for the social, but I’m sure from hotel to hotel, there are many ways
> around this.
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Probably sticking my foot in where it doesn’t belong, but I trust y’all can
understand I’m arguing devil’s advocate, not trying to be mean or mad at
someone.

I’d just like to clarify why we think the FFS shouldn’t have many awards.
Is it because it’s not a contest where we just want to have fun? Then yes,
it should be awardless, or few awards. Or is it because things that are
already designed just aren’t as good as things designed by the maker? I
think conversation has been skirting this without actually saying it, so I
thought I’d bring it into the open. Even while obeying the picture and the
description 100% people can vary wildly in their choices within that frame.
Is that somehow less deserving of recognition than something designed and
made by the same person?

~Aurora

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

aurora asks about perceptions about designer made vs non designer.

for me, that’s never a problem. okay sure, over the years I’ve seen a few things that were chosen that didn’t live up to the drawing, but I thought that was the whole fun of it, to see what other people design, and how you can figure out what they intended.

so surely I can’t answer for all, but to be honest, I always thought the opposite, it was EASIER for the designer to get it right,lso kudos belonged to the non designer even more.
in fact, I know of a few times ( names withheld) that the costume has already been made BEFORE the design was sent in to the folio contest.

Ricky

________________________________
From: Aurora Celeste <auroraceleste@gmail.com>
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2009 10:19:13 PM
Subject: Re: [runacc] Future Fashion Show Awards/singlepattern

Probably sticking my foot in where it doesn’t belong, but I trust y’all can
understand I’m arguing devil’s advocate, not trying to be mean or mad at
someone.

I’d just like to clarify why we think the FFS shouldn’t have many awards.
Is it because it’s not a contest where we just want to have fun? Then yes,
it should be awardless, or few awards. Or is it because things that are
already designed just aren’t as good as things designed by the maker? I
think conversation has been skirting this without actually saying it, so I
thought I’d bring it into the open. Even while obeying the picture and the
description 100% people can vary wildly in their choices within that frame.
Is that somehow less deserving of recognition than something designed and
made by the same person?

~Aurora

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Or just a pre-defined open area of the Social.

I really liked the SP on Friday night but definitely feel it would be nice to have it included in the Social somehow.

And the reason people wouldn’t quiet down for the contests at the Social is that no one knew they were going on, for most of us it just seemed to be a lot of disorganized shouting. It took awhile to catch on that there was some sort of “planned” activity.

Maybe it should have been announced? Or did we miss that because we were in the other room during the SP event?

Nora

— In runacc@yahoogroups.com, Gravely MacCabre <gravelymac@…> wrote:
> Kevin,
> I agree,intimate, fun, and a different viewpoint than just another stage event.
>
> My only concern is with the way we MIGHT have done that, would people actually shut up during the social to do it, so to give the entrants a bit of respect.
> just comes to mind, in the face of Thomas Atkinson haveing trouble even getting 25 year cc vets to pipe down while he was trying to run some contest things at the social. most people didn’t care.
> ________________________________
> From: “Kevin Roche, Costume-Con 26 Chair” <chair@…>
> To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2009 9:03:33 PM
> Subject: Re: [runacc] single pattern
> I have to admit I liked the idea of it being done like a cafe fashion
> show… with the pieces being presented in the social while folks were
> there, with a route between the tables and a platform or two for focus.
>
> If you could have fixed lighting instruments to highlight those (small)
> risers, it could be a very effective and intimate way to both show off
> the Single Pattern entries and encourage social mixing.

Good question, Aurora.
I agree with Ricky that part of the fun is seeing what people do with your designs but the designs aren’t meant as a starting point for the Fashion Show – they’re the goal; how close can I get to the Designer’s intent?

Of course there are always variations but the designs aren’t meant as suggestions. The point isn’t Designer vs Non-Designer, it’s how close can you get to the design.

Nora

— In runacc@yahoogroups.com, Gravely MacCabre <gravelymac@…> wrote:
>
> aurora asks about perceptions about designer made vs non designer.
>
> for me, that’s never a problem. okay sure, over the years I’ve seen a few things that were chosen that didn’t live up to the drawing, but I thought that was the whole fun of it, to see what other people design, and how you can figure out what they intended.
>
> so surely I can’t answer for all, but to be honest, I always thought the opposite, it was EASIER for the designer to get it right,lso kudos belonged to the non designer even more.
> in fact, I know of a few times ( names withheld) that the costume has already been made BEFORE the design was sent in to the folio contest.
>
> Ricky
> ________________________________
> From: Aurora Celeste <auroraceleste@…>
> To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2009 10:19:13 PM
> Subject: Re: [runacc] Future Fashion Show Awards/singlepattern
>
> Probably sticking my foot in where it doesn’t belong, but I trust y’all can
> understand I’m arguing devil’s advocate, not trying to be mean or mad at
> someone.
>
> I’d just like to clarify why we think the FFS shouldn’t have many awards.
> Is it because it’s not a contest where we just want to have fun? Then yes,
> it should be awardless, or few awards. Or is it because things that are
> already designed just aren’t as good as things designed by the maker? I
> think conversation has been skirting this without actually saying it, so I
> thought I’d bring it into the open. Even while obeying the picture and the
> description 100% people can vary wildly in their choices within that frame.
> Is that somehow less deserving of recognition than something designed and
> made by the same person?
>
> ~Aurora

It also doesn’t help one bit that the acoustics of the atrium suck. Ok,
so they’re not so bad when you’re singing the Hallelujah Chorus, but
that’s generally 30 people or more singing the same thing, intending to
bounce the sound off the ceiling. For someone with a hearing problem
(*waves*) most of what was said on microphone was completely
incomprehensible unless you were within 20 feet of the amplifier.

I was also wondering from a photography standpoint who was taking
official photos of the SP contest. Were there any?

Regarding the awards, I don’t think turning the event into an
award-laden thing will matter as much. People like to get strokes, and
that’s what the awards are about. If a few more than just Best by
Designer and Non-Designer are awarded, I don’t see a lot of harm.

Was there griping? I didn’t hear any, but then I’ve got faulty hearing
and I was a little distracted at the con…

-b

von_drago wrote:

> Or just a pre-defined open area of the Social.
>
> I really liked the SP on Friday night but definitely feel it would be
> nice to have it included in the Social somehow.
>
> And the reason people wouldn’t quiet down for the contests at the Social
> is that no one knew they were going on, for most of us it just seemed to
> be a lot of disorganized shouting. It took awhile to catch on that there
> was some sort of “planned” activity.
>
> Maybe it should have been announced? Or did we miss that because we were
> in the other room during the SP event?
>
> Nora

—
—
Betsy Marks Delaney

http://www.hawkeswood.com/

Nora,
I think it just suffered from no central place of authority. so hard to get attention.
We made a great hang out and chat space, and then wanted a central focus, well, that wasn’t as easy as we thought.

if it was all one event, and in one place, you’re right, easier to get a handle on it all

Gravely MacCabre
http://www.castleblood.com
http://www.midnightmonsterhop.com
http://www.myspace.com/thecastleblood
http://www.myspace.com/midnightmonsterhop
clip samples at
http://www.veoh.com/channels/castleblood

________________________________
From: von_drago <von_drago@yahoo.com>
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2009 11:34:13 PM
Subject: [runacc] Re: single pattern & Social

Or just a pre-defined open area of the Social.

I really liked the SP on Friday night but definitely feel it would be nice to have it included in the Social somehow.

And the reason people wouldn’t quiet down for the contests at the Social is that no one knew they were going on, for most of us it just seemed to be a lot of disorganized shouting. It took awhile to catch on that there was some sort of “planned” activity.

Maybe it should have been announced? Or did we miss that because we were in the other room during the SP event?

Nora

— In runacc@yahoogroups. com, Gravely MacCabre <gravelymac@ …> wrote:
> Kevin,
> I agree,intimate, fun, and a different viewpoint than just another stage event.
>
> My only concern is with the way we MIGHT have done that, would people actually shut up during the social to do it, so to give the entrants a bit of respect.
> just comes to mind, in the face of Thomas Atkinson haveing trouble even getting 25 year cc vets to pipe down while he was trying to run some contest things at the social. most people didn’t care.
> ____________ _________ _________ __
> From: “Kevin Roche, Costume-Con 26 Chair” <chair@…>
> To: runacc@yahoogroups. com
> Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2009 9:03:33 PM
> Subject: Re: [runacc] single pattern
> I have to admit I liked the idea of it being done like a cafe fashion
> show… with the pieces being presented in the social while folks were
> there, with a route between the tables and a platform or two for focus.
>
> If you could have fixed lighting instruments to highlight those (small)
> risers, it could be a very effective and intimate way to both show off
> the Single Pattern entries and encourage social mixing.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

This is one of the few disadvantages of having CC move to different
venues each year. [And NO! I am not volunteering for anything right
now.] Now were we to be having Costume Con in the same hotel next year,
we could easily plan to do the Single Pattern Contest in the front of
the atrium as a part of the Social with the platforms and some lights
set up against the wall by the Dulaney Room. It would only involve
slight re-arranging of the furniture. But I’m certain that Henry’s hotel
is laid out completely differently, and his committee probably has a
completely different set of ideas as to how things can or should be
run. But I agree with the sentiment that I’d like to see the Single
Pattern contest integrated with the Friday night social.

^M^

Kevin Roche, Costume-Con 26 Chair wrote:

>
>
> I have to admit I liked the idea of it being done like a cafe fashion
> show… with the pieces being presented in the social while folks were
> there, with a route between the tables and a platform or two for focus.
>
> If you could have fixed lighting instruments to highlight those (small)
> risers, it could be a very effective and intimate way to both show off
> the Single Pattern entries and encourage social mixing.
>
> Kevin
>
> Gravely MacCabre wrote:
> >
> >
> > I think Eric Cannon video’d it so there is some hope.
> > if it is to be a separate thing, some amount of regular Masq tech
> > needs to be part of it.
> >
> > it would be nice if the main stage was set, and the ball room was used
> > for the social, but I’m sure from hotel to hotel, there are many ways
> > around this.
> >
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Speaking as a moderate number of years veteran, we couldn’t even hear what
Thom was saying across the room, and weren’t really interested. I think
people prefer to mingle, roaming from table to table, rather than stay in
one place. The social for CC22 worked well because the theme incorporated
a peri-oid band and people mingled just as they would at a speakeasy.

The theme for CC16 worked well because rather than costumes per se, people
were taking on prom stereotypes. Glen Boetcher’s janitor announcing he had
arrived to clean up the vomit was priceless. And Stephen and Marian Clark’s
sleazy salesman and aging cheerleader were absolutely frightening.
Entertainment at a Social that restricts people’s movement (by feeling they
have to at least be polite and pay some attention to what’s going on) will
never be as successful as a mixer environment. We’re dealing with short
attention spans.

I wasn’t getting the whole silly awards thing that was going on, and (oddly)
the awards tended to go more towards women – there was only one “villain”.

Bruce

—–Original Message—–

> From: runacc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:runacc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> Gravely MacCabre
> Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 8:18 PM
> To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [runacc] single pattern
>
> Kevin,
> I agree,intimate, fun, and a different viewpoint than just another stage

event.

>
> My only concern is with the way we MIGHT have done that, would people

actually

> shut up during the social to do it, so to give the entrants a bit of

respect.

> just comes to mind, in the face of Thomas Atkinson haveing trouble even

getting 25

> year cc vets to pipe down while he was trying to run some contest things

at the

> social. most people didn’t care.
>
> Gravely MacCabre
> http://www.castleblood.com
> http://www.midnightmonsterhop.com
> http://www.myspace.com/thecastleblood
> http://www.myspace.com/midnightmonsterhop
> clip samples at
> http://www.veoh.com/channels/castleblood
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: “Kevin Roche, Costume-Con 26 Chair” <chair@cc26.org>
> To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2009 9:03:33 PM
> Subject: Re: [runacc] single pattern
>
>
>
>
>
> I have to admit I liked the idea of it being done like a cafe fashion
> show… with the pieces being presented in the social while folks were
> there, with a route between the tables and a platform or two for focus.
>
> If you could have fixed lighting instruments to highlight those (small)
> risers, it could be a very effective and intimate way to both show off
> the Single Pattern entries and encourage social mixing.
>
> Kevin
>
> Gravely MacCabre wrote:
> >
> >
> > I think Eric Cannon video’d it so there is some hope.
> > if it is to be a separate thing, some amount of regular Masq tech
> > needs to be part of it.
> >
> > it would be nice if the main stage was set, and the ball room was used
> > for the social, but I’m sure from hotel to hotel, there are many ways
> > around this.
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ————————————
>
> View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/Yahoo!

Groups

> Links
>
>
>

I agree with the designer vs. non-designer thing up to a point. But if
your award is “close, but no cigar”, well, it incongruent to me.

Submitting a design when the thing is already made up seems like
“sand-bagging” to me. Also, there’s the type who believe only they can do
their design correctly, therefore they will submit only one design and then
reserve it for themselves.

????????

In my opinion, if you can’t communicate your vision so that someone in the
Show whomp it up, then maybe you’re not that good a designer.

Bruce

> —–Original Message—–
> From: runacc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:runacc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> Gravely MacCabre
> Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 10:20 PM
> To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [runacc] Future Fashion Show Awards/singlepattern
>
> aurora asks about perceptions about designer made vs non designer.
>
> for me, that’s never a problem. okay sure, over the years I’ve seen a few

things

> that were chosen that didn’t live up to the drawing, but I thought that

was the whole

> fun of it, to see what other people design, and how you can figure out

what they

> intended.
>
> so surely I can’t answer for all, but to be honest, I always thought the

opposite, it

> was EASIER for the designer to get it right,lso kudos belonged to the non

designer

> even more.
> in fact, I know of a few times ( names withheld) that the costume has

already been

> made BEFORE the design was sent in to the folio contest.
>
> Ricky
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Aurora Celeste <auroraceleste@gmail.com>
> To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2009 10:19:13 PM
> Subject: Re: [runacc] Future Fashion Show Awards/singlepattern
>
>
>
>
>
> Probably sticking my foot in where it doesn’t belong, but I trust y’all

can

> understand I’m arguing devil’s advocate, not trying to be mean or mad at
> someone.
>
> I’d just like to clarify why we think the FFS shouldn’t have many awards.
> Is it because it’s not a contest where we just want to have fun? Then

yes,

> it should be awardless, or few awards. Or is it because things that are
> already designed just aren’t as good as things designed by the maker? I
> think conversation has been skirting this without actually saying it, so I
> thought I’d bring it into the open. Even while obeying the picture and

the

> description 100% people can vary wildly in their choices within that

frame.

> Is that somehow less deserving of recognition than something designed and
> made by the same person?
>
> ~Aurora
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ————————————
>
> View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/Yahoo!

Groups

> Links
>
>
>

No – there wasn’t any griping by contestants – it was by some judges at a
previous CC.

Again – where do you draw the line, though? How many is a “few”? The
nameless judge I initially referred to would have given recognition to at
least half of the participants for at least *something*. I certainly want
to encourage people’s efforts but don’t make it meaningless, is all I’m
saying.

If you just state upfront, as it has been in the past, that there are only 2
awards (or whatever), most people are fine with it.

Bruce

> —–Original Message—–
> From: runacc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:runacc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> Betsy Delaney
> Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 10:44 PM
> To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [runacc] Re: single pattern & Social
>
>
> Regarding the awards, I don’t think turning the event into an
> award-laden thing will matter as much. People like to get strokes, and
> that’s what the awards are about. If a few more than just Best by
> Designer and Non-Designer are awarded, I don’t see a lot of harm.
>
> Was there griping? I didn’t hear any, but then I’ve got faulty hearing
> and I was a little distracted at the con…
>

I guess that’s what I’m running past the “tribal elders”, but I’m also
curious to see how “Mom” feels about it – which she’s already expressed her
opinion about. While I think experimentation is a good thing, there’s
always someone who goes to far and things get out of hand. For some
reason, I’m concerned tat the Fashion Show would break down into a T-Ball
League situation where everyone would get a trophy for participating (come
to think of it – everyone did get a certificate for participating.
Hmmmm….). Maybe I’m wrong – most of the CC masquerades have not fallen
into that trap, but there was one or two that got awfully close.

Maybe I’m out of line here. While you make a valid point about the whole
recognition system being somewhat contradicted by the Fashion Show, I think
there’s validity to having something different from all the others. Without
trying to repeat myself too much, is recognizing someone’s workmanship –
even if they weren’t the most accurate at interpreting a design – defeating
the purpose of the what the Show is about? If someone does a so-so job at
the look of a coat, for instance — but they hand-beaded the crystal drops
that dangle from the sleeves — do they deserve an award? Or does one say,
“Wow, they went to a lot of trouble to do that hand-beading – too bad they
didn’t put as much into the rest of the coat”? Am I making sense?

Bruce

> —–Original Message—–
> From: runacc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:runacc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> Gravely MacCabre
> Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 7:41 PM
> To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [runacc] Future Fashion Show Awards/singlepattern
>
>
> so is this something we are trying to get a leadership council type feel

for, and then

> hope fashion show directors might take advice?
>
> I don’t know who is running the show for 28, but Jill Eastlake is for 29 I

believe

>
> so how do they learn what the council elders ( not taking that seriously,

very tongue

> and cheek) think is best.
> and how do we back off from the excellence deserves reward that so many of

us

> have been singing for so long, in this one instance, or do you want it put

into the cc

> constitution, which would not take effect till cc-31.
>
> just wondering where the discussion leads us.
>
> Gravely MacCabre

I agree with Karen, with the addition of a Best Workmanship
award. Maybe you weren’t able to get everything absolutely exact to
the design, but if the design called for large amounts of (handwork,
embroidery (hand or machine), any other specialized craft, pick one)
and it was executed flawlessly, I can see a Workmanship award being
given. It should be optional, while the Designer/Non-Designer ones
should be given always.

Note – having made up many of our own designs, sometimes it’s not so
easy to create for real what you draw….

Sandy

At 04:35 PM 5/9/2009, you wrote:

>I think Fashion Show awards should be minimal.
>
>Like you said– Best as executed by Designer and Best as executed by
>Non-Designer.
>
>The real competition was the design contest, and getting into the
>folio, so the participants are already making up designs that have
>won something.
>
>Think of the FFS as a showcase, and fun, vs. OMG another competition.
>
>But I can see where some will not want to put forth the time and
>effort unless there are multiple awards involved.
>
>If somebody has a better model, let’s hear discussion.
>
>Back in the day (Trek conventions in the 80’s run by Bjo Triimble),
>there were NO awards for being in the FFS–it was just a cool way to
>make another costume for the convention and be on stage a second time.
>
>–Karen
>
>—– Original Message —–
>From: Bruce & Nora Mai
>To: <mailto:runacc%40yahoogroups.com>runacc@yahoogroups.com
>Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 1:24 PM
>Subject: [runacc] Future Fashion Show Awards
>
>Our (meaning the Costume-Con community) philosophy is “Excellence Deserves
>Recognition”. This applies to everything except for the Future Fashion Show
>- there’s usually only the “Most accurate to Self” and “Most Accurate – not
>by the Designer”. Nora and I are more traditionalists on this, and while
>we don’t object to a couple of other awards, we think things should stay
>essentially as they are. At least one of our people has said if she was
>ever in a position to judge for the FFS again, she essentially said she
>would ignore the standard model and give out as many awards to people she
>believed deserved them.
>
>Our general thinking is:
>
>The FFS is not a competition in the same sense as a masquerade. But I think
>some folks look at it that way.
>
>The competition was the Folio. The challenge at the Show is for people to
>reproduce the designs as faithfully as possible – not to take someone’s
>design and use it as a jumping off point.
>Bruce

“Those Who Fail to Learn History
Are Doomed to Repeat It;
Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly –
Why They Are Simply Doomed.”

Achemdro’hm
“The Illusion of Historical Fact”
— C. Y. 4971

Andromeda

SP: not announced; I found out it had moved by accident.
Steward took photos.

FFS: Regarding instituting the division system – well,
yeah. The lack of divisions may eventually become the
sticking point. Why participate when you know you have no
chance of winning? People take the Folio Show very
seriously, and work hard to bring the designer’s creation
to life – but for what?

Trying to get the designer’s vision right seems to me to
be much more difficult than tweaking a provided pattern
(i.e. SP); you’re starting from scratch, from nothing but
a drawing (which may or may not be good, depending on the
talent of the designer) and a description. It requires
more skill.

I believe in fewer awards in SP and more in FFS.

Karen (not the momma)

On Sat, 9 May 2009 19:15:45 -0500
“Bruce & Nora Mai” <casamai@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> It definitely seemed like separating the SP from the
>Fashion Show was a good
> idea. I like the idea of it being part of the Social.
> The problem with the
> SP this time was a number of people were not aware of it
>going on. Also,
> the show was not officially covered by video.
>
> But that is another discussion. I would like to return
>to my original
> question for more discussion, re: multiple awards in the
>FFS.
>
> I thought of two additional problems:
>
>First, I would be insulted if someone “re-imagined” my
>design because they
> didn’t like something about it, changed it so it only
>partially looked like
> my sketch, and yet got an award for it.
>
> Second, I would think that multiple awards would
>necessitate the imposition
> of the Skills Divisions to make it more fair for the
>novice sewers vs.
> people who’ve been doing these for a very long time.
>
> Bruce
>
>> —–Original Message—–
>> From: runacc@yahoogroups.com
>>[mailto:runacc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
>> Gravely MacCabre
>> Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 6:44 PM
>> To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: Re: [runacc] Future Fashion Show
>>Awards/singlepattern
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Karen Wrote:
>>
>> People seemed to LOVE the Single Pattern being combined
>>with the Social,
>> ****Thanks. If always loves single pattern, just hated
>>the perception that
> it was
>> hurting the fashion show, So the thought of picking
>>patterns that could,
> if people
>> wanted, be made up into our theme, and done at the
>>social, seemed worth a
> try,
>> and something that had a very small chance of failure
>> I must admit that I did it fir two reasons.
>> 1st to see if the fashion show would be in good shape
>>without it
>> 2nd, to give a bit of focus for people to make something
>>new for friday
> night.
>>
>> I did originally think it would be DURING the actual
>>social, and that at
> some point,
>> folks would walk a stage/platform, something, like we
>>did in
>> des moines for people simply showing off their movie
>>based costumes.
>>
>> While i never expected it to turn into a fourth
>>masquerade ( almost)
>>
>> when we asked Ann and Ric to Run it, we gave them a wide
>>berth, as we did
> ALL
>> our committee heads, and my thought is that they felt it
>>deserved a little
> more
>> attention, than I originally did.
>> And I think Marty and I were right in letting them do as
>>they pleased, it
> was a nice
>> way to start the weekend, and I believe there were more
>>entries in
>> single pattern than either the historical or the fashion
>>show. Hey, apples
> and oranges
>> there in some ways, so not fair to compare, but I think
>>there was 31
> single patterns,
>> so, yup, they deserved the extra effort that Ric and Ann
>>gave them.
>>
>> the only complaint was sound. easily fixed next time.
>> Ricky
>

I asked Vicki Warren if Ken had been photographer for the SPC, and she said No, that as far as she knew no one had done photos. I saw Eric Cannon doing video next to the judges’ table also, so there is some record, at least.

Incidentally, if anyone took a candid of Byron’s & my SPC outfits, I’d be very happy to get a copy. Since we were in costume, we didn’t carry our camera and as a result missed out on getting photos of a lot of wonderful creations.

Tina

— In runacc@yahoogroups.com, Betsy Delaney <aramintamd@…> wrote:
>
> It also doesn’t help one bit that the acoustics of the atrium suck. Ok,
> so they’re not so bad when you’re singing the Hallelujah Chorus, but
> that’s generally 30 people or more singing the same thing, intending to
> bounce the sound off the ceiling. For someone with a hearing problem
> (*waves*) most of what was said on microphone was completely
> incomprehensible unless you were within 20 feet of the amplifier.
>
> I was also wondering from a photography standpoint who was taking
> official photos of the SP contest. Were there any?
>
> Regarding the awards, I don’t think turning the event into an
> award-laden thing will matter as much. People like to get strokes, and
> that’s what the awards are about. If a few more than just Best by
> Designer and Non-Designer are awarded, I don’t see a lot of harm.
>
> Was there griping? I didn’t hear any, but then I’ve got faulty hearing
> and I was a little distracted at the con…
>
> -b
>
> —
> Betsy Marks Delaney
>
> http://www.hawkeswood.com/
>

An argument could be made (not by me, just devil’s advocating here) that the division system should be used in the FFS & SP & Doll Contest & etc. because who wants to have to compete against Jacqui Ward if they don’t have to?

But that adds a whole new level of complication to events that were originally (I think) meant to just be additional fun things to fill out the weekend.

Thoughts?

Nora

We’ve attended quite a few Socials over the years, and quite frankly, there were several from which we fled within minutes because we were driven (forcibly) from the room by overly-amplified “music” (for which, read “noise”). Cons which hired a DJ for the event have been particularly prone to this; in general DJ’s seem to feel that they (or their musical selections) are the center of attention, and don’t grasp the concept that the music is a background accompaniment for people who want to socialize. As a result I’m sure that we missed seeing some wonderful costumes, but it’s hard to have fun if you’re being deafened in the process, or can’t hear or be heard by people with whom you want to converse. (I’ve had my hearing tested, being as how I’m getting up to a certain age now, and it tested out extrememly good, up to the dog-whistle range in one ear, so very loud music is actually physically painful to me.)

Socials have also sometimes been quite poorly lit, to create ambiance for the evening’s theme. This is nice as a creative concept, but is not at all conducive to seeing the costumes, or photographing them.

Tina

— In runacc@yahoogroups.com, “Bruce & Nora Mai” <casamai@…> wrote:
>
> Speaking as a moderate number of years veteran, we couldn’t even hear what
> Thom was saying across the room, and weren’t really interested. I think
> people prefer to mingle, roaming from table to table, rather than stay in
> one place. The social for CC22 worked well because the theme incorporated
> a peri-oid band and people mingled just as they would at a speakeasy.
>
> The theme for CC16 worked well because rather than costumes per se, people
> were taking on prom stereotypes. Glen Boetcher’s janitor announcing he had
> arrived to clean up the vomit was priceless. And Stephen and Marian Clark’s
> sleazy salesman and aging cheerleader were absolutely frightening.
> Entertainment at a Social that restricts people’s movement (by feeling they
> have to at least be polite and pay some attention to what’s going on) will
> never be as successful as a mixer environment. We’re dealing with short
> attention spans.
>
> I wasn’t getting the whole silly awards thing that was going on, and (oddly)
> the awards tended to go more towards women – there was only one “villain”.
>
> Bruce
>
>
>
> —–Original Message—–
> > From: runacc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:runacc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> > Gravely MacCabre
> > Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 8:18 PM
> > To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [runacc] single pattern
> >
> > Kevin,
> > I agree,intimate, fun, and a different viewpoint than just another stage
> event.
> >
> > My only concern is with the way we MIGHT have done that, would people
> actually
> > shut up during the social to do it, so to give the entrants a bit of
> respect.
> > just comes to mind, in the face of Thomas Atkinson haveing trouble even
> getting 25
> > year cc vets to pipe down while he was trying to run some contest things
> at the
> > social. most people didn’t care.
> >
> > Gravely MacCabre
> > http://www.castleblood.com
> > http://www.midnightmonsterhop.com
> > http://www.myspace.com/thecastleblood
> > http://www.myspace.com/midnightmonsterhop
> > clip samples at
> > http://www.veoh.com/channels/castleblood
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: “Kevin Roche, Costume-Con 26 Chair” <chair@…>
> > To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2009 9:03:33 PM
> > Subject: Re: [runacc] single pattern
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I have to admit I liked the idea of it being done like a cafe fashion
> > show… with the pieces being presented in the social while folks were
> > there, with a route between the tables and a platform or two for focus.
> >
> > If you could have fixed lighting instruments to highlight those (small)
> > risers, it could be a very effective and intimate way to both show off
> > the Single Pattern entries and encourage social mixing.
> >
> > Kevin
> >
> > Gravely MacCabre wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > I think Eric Cannon video’d it so there is some hope.
> > > if it is to be a separate thing, some amount of regular Masq tech
> > > needs to be part of it.
> > >
> > > it would be nice if the main stage was set, and the ball room was used
> > > for the social, but I’m sure from hotel to hotel, there are many ways
> > > around this.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > ————————————
> >
> > View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/Yahoo!
> Groups
> > Links
> >
> >
> >
>

Would more awards equal more participants? Would the promise of more possible recognition translate into people actually finishing their outfits or committing to one more readily therefore bumping up the FFS numbers?

I know of one person who reserved one of my designs who didn’t get it done therefore it wasn’t in the show. Another person said she was going to try but ended up not doing it because she didn’t have time.
Three seperate people asked me if they could do 3 different designs later since they hadn’t had time before the con.

That would have been 5 more outfits on stage had they been given more importance by their constructors & completed. Would giving more awards make it more important to them to finish the outfits?

Nora

— In runacc@yahoogroups.com, “Ricky & Karen Dick” <castleb@…> wrote:
> I think Fashion Show awards should be minimal.
>
> Like you said– Best as executed by Designer and Best as executed by Non-Designer.
>
> The real competition was the design contest, and getting into the folio, so the participants are already making up designs that have won something.
>
> Think of the FFS as a showcase, and fun, vs. OMG another competition.
>
> But I can see where some will not want to put forth the time and effort unless there are multiple awards involved.
>
> If somebody has a better model, let’s hear discussion.
>
> Back in the day (Trek conventions in the 80’s run by Bjo Triimble), there were NO awards for being in the FFS–it was just a cool way to make another costume for the convention and be on stage a second time.
>
> –Karen
>
> —– Original Message —–
> From: Bruce & Nora Mai
> To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 1:24 PM
> Subject: [runacc] Future Fashion Show Awards
>
>
>
>
>
> So, over on the SLUTs list, a bit of interesting discussion popped up that
> has been brought up before.
>
> Our (meaning the Costume-Con community) philosophy is “Excellence Deserves
> Recognition”. This applies to everything except for the Future Fashion Show
> – there’s usually only the “Most accurate to Self” and “Most Accurate – not
> by the Designer”. Nora and I are more traditionalists on this, and while
> we don’t object to a couple of other awards, we think things should stay
> essentially as they are. At least one of our people has said if she was
> ever in a position to judge for the FFS again, she essentially said she
> would ignore the standard model and give out as many awards to people she
> believed deserved them.
>
> Our general thinking is:
>
> The FFS is not a competition in the same sense as a masquerade. But I think
> some folks look at it that way.
>
> The competition was the Folio. The challenge at the Show is for people to
> reproduce the designs as faithfully as possible – not to take someone’s
> design and use it as a jumping off point. My perception is that the
> designer should be pleased with bringing their drawing to life as they
> visualized it. Rewarding anything that fell short but looks pretty
> seems…..I dunno….less than faithful to the intent of the show.
>
> The Fashion Show is more relaxed – much like the Single Pattern show.
> Making it more of a standard competition has the potential of ratcheting up
> the pressure.
>
> Frequently, the Folio has designs that are more costume than clothing – too
> many more awards might skew this further, I would think. Where do you draw
> the line, then? Would you have to adopt the 33% rule? Where do you draw
> the line? On the other extreme, there is a danger of the whole “give
> everyone an award that deserves it” more easily getting out of hand.
>
> I’d be interested in hearing what some of you – especially Karen D. – think.
>
> Bruce
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ——————————————————————————
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG – www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.287 / Virus Database: 270.12.23/2106 – Release Date: 05/09/09 06:54:00
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Adding my $0.02 cents.
I think for the times we are living in economy wise, we should be happy with the turn out of numbers that we had for all events, SP, FFS, SF&F, and Historical.
Money is tight across the board for just about everyone, and I think this needs to be factored in when seeing the numbers. Then there’s also the whole life getting in the way of our hobby that can cause folks to not get designs completed.

I was one of the folks who didn’t get the design I selected completed in time for the convention. Was it knowing that I would not get an award that stopped me from completing it? No, it was no money and having my life be really crazy busy at the moment. I had to chose my time between working on what could make me money vs. completing a costume that would cost me money that at the time I didn’t have. When the design was reserved in Dec my life was different and my financial status was also different.

Nora with your permission I’d still like to complete it and wear it as a hall costume at CC28.

I know I’ve been off the radar for a long time, and not sure how much, if any, of my opinion counts. For me I was delighted to see how many entries we had for all the events of the weekend.

Stephanie

—– Original Message —–
From: von_drago
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 10:41 AM
Subject: [runacc] Re: Future Fashion Show Awards

Would more awards equal more participants? Would the promise of more possible recognition translate into people actually finishing their outfits or committing to one more readily therefore bumping up the FFS numbers?

I know of one person who reserved one of my designs who didn’t get it done therefore it wasn’t in the show. Another person said she was going to try but ended up not doing it because she didn’t have time.
Three seperate people asked me if they could do 3 different designs later since they hadn’t had time before the con.

That would have been 5 more outfits on stage had they been given more importance by their constructors & completed. Would giving more awards make it more important to them to finish the outfits?

Nora
— In runacc@yahoogroups.com, “Ricky & Karen Dick” <castleb@…> wrote:
> I think Fashion Show awards should be minimal.
>
> Like you said– Best as executed by Designer and Best as executed by Non-Designer.
>
> The real competition was the design contest, and getting into the folio, so the participants are already making up designs that have won something.
>
> Think of the FFS as a showcase, and fun, vs. OMG another competition.
>
> But I can see where some will not want to put forth the time and effort unless there are multiple awards involved.
>
> If somebody has a better model, let’s hear discussion.
>
> Back in the day (Trek conventions in the 80’s run by Bjo Triimble), there were NO awards for being in the FFS–it was just a cool way to make another costume for the convention and be on stage a second time.
>
> –Karen
>
> —– Original Message —–
> From: Bruce & Nora Mai
> To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 1:24 PM
> Subject: [runacc] Future Fashion Show Awards
>
>
>
>
>
> So, over on the SLUTs list, a bit of interesting discussion popped up that
> has been brought up before.
>
> Our (meaning the Costume-Con community) philosophy is “Excellence Deserves
> Recognition”. This applies to everything except for the Future Fashion Show
> – there’s usually only the “Most accurate to Self” and “Most Accurate – not
> by the Designer”. Nora and I are more traditionalists on this, and while
> we don’t object to a couple of other awards, we think things should stay
> essentially as they are. At least one of our people has said if she was
> ever in a position to judge for the FFS again, she essentially said she
> would ignore the standard model and give out as many awards to people she
> believed deserved them.
>
> Our general thinking is:
>
> The FFS is not a competition in the same sense as a masquerade. But I think
> some folks look at it that way.
>
> The competition was the Folio. The challenge at the Show is for people to
> reproduce the designs as faithfully as possible – not to take someone’s
> design and use it as a jumping off point. My perception is that the
> designer should be pleased with bringing their drawing to life as they
> visualized it. Rewarding anything that fell short but looks pretty
> seems…..I dunno….less than faithful to the intent of the show.
>
> The Fashion Show is more relaxed – much like the Single Pattern show.
> Making it more of a standard competition has the potential of ratcheting up
> the pressure.
>
> Frequently, the Folio has designs that are more costume than clothing – too
> many more awards might skew this further, I would think. Where do you draw
> the line, then? Would you have to adopt the 33% rule? Where do you draw
> the line? On the other extreme, there is a danger of the whole “give
> everyone an award that deserves it” more easily getting out of hand.
>
> I’d be interested in hearing what some of you – especially Karen D. – think.
>
> Bruce
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ———————————————————-
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG – www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.287 / Virus Database: 270.12.23/2106 – Release Date: 05/09/09 06:54:00
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Nora, the FFS (or whatever combination of stuff has been the Sunday afternoon event) has very consistently been 7-8% of the membership of Costume-Con pretty much for its entire history.

Ricky says this one was a little low (5-6%), but we’ve had some that were high, too, and it all seems to balance out.

The FFS events I was in in the 1970’s had lots of people making things (like many of the shows were 40 or 50 people), but the convention attendance at those cons was HUGE–
5,000 to 10,000 people.

I don’t think giving more awards (or not) will change how many people participate. The FFS is difficult for some people because it often involves drafting your own patterns to get the look right. And not everyone has mad patterning skills. Single Pattern is more friendly in that regard because the patterning is largely taken out of the equation, although you may have to modify the pattern to fit right if you are a nonstandard body type.

As for the dropouts from the FFS…it happens. Every year. Sometimes, you get into building the thing that looked simple on paper, and discover that it isn’t easy at all. I was nearly defeated this year by what should have been the “easy” parts–a t-shirt and jeans. Other times, other stuff happens (heavier workload at the real life job, illness, etc.) and the outfit doesn’t get completed.

And sometimes, you have to make choices as to which thing you’re going to finish. I started this year having every intention of doing BOTH the FFS and Single Pattern. Bought fabric for both. Then had medical issues for two months and couldn’t sew because my concentration was so screwed up from having my meds switched on a weekly basis until they found the right one. Something had to go, and it ended up being Single Pattern. I still intend to make it, as I have the pattern and fabric, and I wanted to do some serious modification to the skirt in a way no one else did. So it will get done, and worn in the future as a hall costume at another CC, and at Castle Blood, as I’m doing it in Castle colors. Actually, I did have a day and a half open right before the con in which I could have attempted it (and would have if I was 20), but I figured it was probably a good idea not to stress myself that way.

As for giving all the participants certificates (not awards, but a thank-you for participation), there’s nothing wrong with that, especially when it is largely people other than the designers making the costumes, and awards are limited. At Costume-Con 6, we gave all FFS participants a certificate of participation and a 5×7 photo of the costume they modeled. Everyone seemed pleased with that.

–Karen

—– Original Message —–
From: von_drago
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 10:41 AM
Subject: [runacc] Re: Future Fashion Show Awards

Would more awards equal more participants? Would the promise of more possible recognition translate into people actually finishing their outfits or committing to one more readily therefore bumping up the FFS numbers?

I know of one person who reserved one of my designs who didn’t get it done therefore it wasn’t in the show. Another person said she was going to try but ended up not doing it because she didn’t have time.
Three seperate people asked me if they could do 3 different designs later since they hadn’t had time before the con.

That would have been 5 more outfits on stage had they been given more importance by their constructors & completed. Would giving more awards make it more important to them to finish the outfits?

Nora
— In runacc@yahoogroups.com, “Ricky & Karen Dick” <castleb@…> wrote:
> I think Fashion Show awards should be minimal.
>
> Like you said– Best as executed by Designer and Best as executed by Non-Designer.
>
> The real competition was the design contest, and getting into the folio, so the participants are already making up designs that have won something.
>
> Think of the FFS as a showcase, and fun, vs. OMG another competition.
>
> But I can see where some will not want to put forth the time and effort unless there are multiple awards involved.
>
> If somebody has a better model, let’s hear discussion.
>
> Back in the day (Trek conventions in the 80’s run by Bjo Triimble), there were NO awards for being in the FFS–it was just a cool way to make another costume for the convention and be on stage a second time.
>
> –Karen
>
> —– Original Message —–
> From: Bruce & Nora Mai
> To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 1:24 PM
> Subject: [runacc] Future Fashion Show Awards
>
>
>
>
>
> So, over on the SLUTs list, a bit of interesting discussion popped up that
> has been brought up before.
>
> Our (meaning the Costume-Con community) philosophy is “Excellence Deserves
> Recognition”. This applies to everything except for the Future Fashion Show
> – there’s usually only the “Most accurate to Self” and “Most Accurate – not
> by the Designer”. Nora and I are more traditionalists on this, and while
> we don’t object to a couple of other awards, we think things should stay
> essentially as they are. At least one of our people has said if she was
> ever in a position to judge for the FFS again, she essentially said she
> would ignore the standard model and give out as many awards to people she
> believed deserved them.
>
> Our general thinking is:
>
> The FFS is not a competition in the same sense as a masquerade. But I think
> some folks look at it that way.
>
> The competition was the Folio. The challenge at the Show is for people to
> reproduce the designs as faithfully as possible – not to take someone’s
> design and use it as a jumping off point. My perception is that the
> designer should be pleased with bringing their drawing to life as they
> visualized it. Rewarding anything that fell short but looks pretty
> seems…..I dunno….less than faithful to the intent of the show.
>
> The Fashion Show is more relaxed – much like the Single Pattern show.
> Making it more of a standard competition has the potential of ratcheting up
> the pressure.
>
> Frequently, the Folio has designs that are more costume than clothing – too
> many more awards might skew this further, I would think. Where do you draw
> the line, then? Would you have to adopt the 33% rule? Where do you draw
> the line? On the other extreme, there is a danger of the whole “give
> everyone an award that deserves it” more easily getting out of hand.
>
> I’d be interested in hearing what some of you – especially Karen D. – think.
>
> Bruce
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ———————————————————-
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG – www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.287 / Virus Database: 270.12.23/2106 – Release Date: 05/09/09 06:54:00
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

——————————————————————————

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG – www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.287 / Virus Database: 270.12.24/2107 – Release Date: 05/10/09 07:02:00

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

And see – while I agree this would have to happen, I think having to
introduce the Skills Divisions this would take the fun out of it for some
people.

I think it’s interesting to note Karen and Ricky say that FFS percentages
have stayed the same, on average, despite worries that the SP was taking
away from it. Still keeping them separate from now is a good solution.

Bruce

> —–Original Message—–
> From: runacc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:runacc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> Karen Heim
> Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 2:19 AM
> To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [runacc] Future Fashion Show Awards/singlepattern
>
>
> FFS: Regarding instituting the division system – well,
> yeah. The lack of divisions may eventually become the
> sticking point. Why participate when you know you have no
> chance of winning? People take the Folio Show very
> seriously, and work hard to bring the designer’s creation
> to life – but for what?
>
> Karen (not the momma)

At 12:21 AM 5/10/2009, you w

Sandy largely echoes my thoughts. I’m a proponent of three awards at
the FFS: Most Accurate by Designer, Most Accurate by Non-Designer and
Best Workmanship. The Latter could easily go to one of the two
formers. Any more and we are resembling a masquerade.

Re: the Single Pattern. I’ve always been a bit ambivalent about it. I
think its a great concept, but it always seemed to diminish the FFS
when it was held. That was why we did not have one at CC24.

However, I agree that moving it to Friday night was a brilliant idea
and worked well. To have it work during the actual social, as opposed
to just before, I think we do have to have good speakers in place and
tout it as an event to draw everyone’s attention during the duration.
Just having the entries move through the tables, even with a riser or
two isn’t sufficient. You don’t need a full blown stage, but an
obvious point of attention is required.

Pierre

“Those Who Fail to Learn History
Are Doomed to Repeat It;
Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly –
Why They Are Simply Doomed.”

Achemdro’hm
“The Illusion of Historical Fact”
— C. Y. 4971

Andromeda

I’m not actually advocating for change, I like minimal awards for both the FFS & SP. I think that keeps them more fun, less pressure.

But some folks seem to feel the FFS should have more awards. Is that a good or neccessary thing? What would having more awards actually accomplish? It might be a good thing if it would raise the number of participants but I think adding awards would also raise the expectations & stress levels.

And if we did add more awards (again, I’m not for that), shouldn’t they be consistent with the spirit of the Folio & only award achievement as regards re-creating the Designer’s “vision” rather than more general Masquerade-type awards?

I understand about the life or monetary problem interfering with getting something done, I’d ditch the FFS or SP first too. I’m just throwing out some things that crossed my mind.

And please do finish the outfit, I’d love to see it.

Nora

— In runacc@yahoogroups.com, “Stephanie Carrigg” <bada.boom@…> wrote:
>
> Adding my $0.02 cents.
> I think for the times we are living in economy wise, we should be happy with the turn out of numbers that we had for all events, SP, FFS, SF&F, and Historical.
> Money is tight across the board for just about everyone, and I think this needs to be factored in when seeing the numbers. Then there’s also the whole life getting in the way of our hobby that can cause folks to not get designs completed.
>
> I was one of the folks who didn’t get the design I selected completed in time for the convention. Was it knowing that I would not get an award that stopped me from completing it? No, it was no money and having my life be really crazy busy at the moment. I had to chose my time between working on what could make me money vs. completing a costume that would cost me money that at the time I didn’t have. When the design was reserved in Dec my life was different and my financial status was also different.
>
> Nora with your permission I’d still like to complete it and wear it as a hall costume at CC28.
>
> I know I’ve been off the radar for a long time, and not sure how much, if any, of my opinion counts. For me I was delighted to see how many entries we had for all the events of the weekend.
>
> Stephanie
>
> —– Original Message —–
> From: von_drago
> To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 10:41 AM
> Subject: [runacc] Re: Future Fashion Show Awards
>
>
>
>
>
> Would more awards equal more participants? Would the promise of more possible recognition translate into people actually finishing their outfits or committing to one more readily therefore bumping up the FFS numbers?
>
> I know of one person who reserved one of my designs who didn’t get it done therefore it wasn’t in the show. Another person said she was going to try but ended up not doing it because she didn’t have time.
> Three seperate people asked me if they could do 3 different designs later since they hadn’t had time before the con.
>
> That would have been 5 more outfits on stage had they been given more importance by their constructors & completed. Would giving more awards make it more important to them to finish the outfits?
>
> Nora
> — In runacc@yahoogroups.com, “Ricky & Karen Dick” <castleb@> wrote:
> > I think Fashion Show awards should be minimal.
> >
> > Like you said– Best as executed by Designer and Best as executed by Non-Designer.
> >
> > The real competition was the design contest, and getting into the folio, so the participants are already making up designs that have won something.
> >
> > Think of the FFS as a showcase, and fun, vs. OMG another competition.
> >
> > But I can see where some will not want to put forth the time and effort unless there are multiple awards involved.
> >
> > If somebody has a better model, let’s hear discussion.
> >
> > Back in the day (Trek conventions in the 80’s run by Bjo Triimble), there were NO awards for being in the FFS–it was just a cool way to make another costume for the convention and be on stage a second time.
> >
> > –Karen
> >
> > —– Original Message —–
> > From: Bruce & Nora Mai
> > To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 1:24 PM
> > Subject: [runacc] Future Fashion Show Awards
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > So, over on the SLUTs list, a bit of interesting discussion popped up that
> > has been brought up before.
> >
> > Our (meaning the Costume-Con community) philosophy is “Excellence Deserves
> > Recognition”. This applies to everything except for the Future Fashion Show
> > – there’s usually only the “Most accurate to Self” and “Most Accurate – not
> > by the Designer”. Nora and I are more traditionalists on this, and while
> > we don’t object to a couple of other awards, we think things should stay
> > essentially as they are. At least one of our people has said if she was
> > ever in a position to judge for the FFS again, she essentially said she
> > would ignore the standard model and give out as many awards to people she
> > believed deserved them.
> >
> > Our general thinking is:
> >
> > The FFS is not a competition in the same sense as a masquerade. But I think
> > some folks look at it that way.
> >
> > The competition was the Folio. The challenge at the Show is for people to
> > reproduce the designs as faithfully as possible – not to take someone’s
> > design and use it as a jumping off point. My perception is that the
> > designer should be pleased with bringing their drawing to life as they
> > visualized it. Rewarding anything that fell short but looks pretty
> > seems…..I dunno….less than faithful to the intent of the show.
> >
> > The Fashion Show is more relaxed – much like the Single Pattern show.
> > Making it more of a standard competition has the potential of ratcheting up
> > the pressure.
> >
> > Frequently, the Folio has designs that are more costume than clothing – too
> > many more awards might skew this further, I would think. Where do you draw
> > the line, then? Would you have to adopt the 33% rule? Where do you draw
> > the line? On the other extreme, there is a danger of the whole “give
> > everyone an award that deserves it” more easily getting out of hand.
> >
> > I’d be interested in hearing what some of you – especially Karen D. – think.
> >
> > Bruce
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ———————————————————-
> >
> >
> >
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG – www.avg.com
> > Version: 8.5.287 / Virus Database: 270.12.23/2106 – Release Date: 05/09/09 06:54:00
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Since the SP and FFS aren’t “real” competitions, like the F/SF and Historical, if a costumer gets crunched on time those two are obviously going to be the first to go.

I think some people take these more seriously than they are given credit for. Yes, it is still fun – in the way figuring out a 3D puzzle is fun. But it’s still art, it’s still being done at a level of excellence, and it doesn’t make sense to say, “Excellence deserves reward – except over here, where it doesn’t.”. It is inconsistent with our stated values.

We have thought that the Folio was the only competition, and the show was just a show. I don’t think that’s true. I think it’s 2 competitions: one for the designs, and one for the execution of the designs. In people’s minds, if you make a costume and parade on the stage, it’s a competition – they do not differentiate, and play the Sesame Street “one of these things is not like the others” game.

Karen

— In runacc@yahoogroups.com, “von_drago” <von_drago@…> wrote:
>
> Would more awards equal more participants? Would the promise of more possible recognition translate into people actually finishing their outfits or committing to one more readily therefore bumping up the FFS numbers?
>
> I know of one person who reserved one of my designs who didn’t get it done therefore it wasn’t in the show. Another person said she was going to try but ended up not doing it because she didn’t have time.
> Three seperate people asked me if they could do 3 different designs later since they hadn’t had time before the con.
>
> That would have been 5 more outfits on stage had they been given more importance by their constructors & completed. Would giving more awards make it more important to them to finish the outfits?
>
> Nora
> — In runacc@yahoogroups.com, “Ricky & Karen Dick” <castleb@> wrote:
> > I think Fashion Show awards should be minimal.
> >
> > Like you said– Best as executed by Designer and Best as executed by Non-Designer.
> >
> > The real competition was the design contest, and getting into the folio, so the participants are already making up designs that have won something.
> >
> > Think of the FFS as a showcase, and fun, vs. OMG another competition.
> >
> > But I can see where some will not want to put forth the time and effort unless there are multiple awards involved.
> >
> > If somebody has a better model, let’s hear discussion.
> >
> > Back in the day (Trek conventions in the 80’s run by Bjo Triimble), there were NO awards for being in the FFS–it was just a cool way to make another costume for the convention and be on stage a second time.
> >
> > –Karen
> >
> > —– Original Message —–
> > From: Bruce & Nora Mai
> > To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 1:24 PM
> > Subject: [runacc] Future Fashion Show Awards
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > So, over on the SLUTs list, a bit of interesting discussion popped up that
> > has been brought up before.
> >
> > Our (meaning the Costume-Con community) philosophy is “Excellence Deserves
> > Recognition”. This applies to everything except for the Future Fashion Show
> > – there’s usually only the “Most accurate to Self” and “Most Accurate – not
> > by the Designer”. Nora and I are more traditionalists on this, and while
> > we don’t object to a couple of other awards, we think things should stay
> > essentially as they are. At least one of our people has said if she was
> > ever in a position to judge for the FFS again, she essentially said she
> > would ignore the standard model and give out as many awards to people she
> > believed deserved them.
> >
> > Our general thinking is:
> >
> > The FFS is not a competition in the same sense as a masquerade. But I think
> > some folks look at it that way.
> >
> > The competition was the Folio. The challenge at the Show is for people to
> > reproduce the designs as faithfully as possible – not to take someone’s
> > design and use it as a jumping off point. My perception is that the
> > designer should be pleased with bringing their drawing to life as they
> > visualized it. Rewarding anything that fell short but looks pretty
> > seems…..I dunno….less than faithful to the intent of the show.
> >
> > The Fashion Show is more relaxed – much like the Single Pattern show.
> > Making it more of a standard competition has the potential of ratcheting up
> > the pressure.
> >
> > Frequently, the Folio has designs that are more costume than clothing – too
> > many more awards might skew this further, I would think. Where do you draw
> > the line, then? Would you have to adopt the 33% rule? Where do you draw
> > the line? On the other extreme, there is a danger of the whole “give
> > everyone an award that deserves it” more easily getting out of hand.
> >
> > I’d be interested in hearing what some of you – especially Karen D. – think.
> >
> > Bruce
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ——————————————————————————
> >
> >
> >
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG – www.avg.com
> > Version: 8.5.287 / Virus Database: 270.12.23/2106 – Release Date: 05/09/09 06:54:00
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

There are too many cases of entries in SF&F and Historical in which the costume was made to someone else’s design for that to be a significant factor. Pat Buard’s CC 27 Historical entry was made to a design by Christian Dior, for example.

I seem to recall from the di, dark past that the idea of minimizing awards at the FFS was to emphasize that it was a fashion show, not a competition. The only awards were “best interpretation of a design made by the designer” and “best interpretation of a design made by someone other than the designer.”

Byron

—– Original Message —–
From: Gravely MacCabre<mailto:gravelymac@yahoo.com>
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com<mailto:runacc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 11:19 PM
Subject: Re: [runacc] Future Fashion Show Awards/singlepattern

aurora asks about perceptions about designer made vs non designer.

for me, that’s never a problem. okay sure, over the years I’ve seen a few things that were chosen that didn’t live up to the drawing, but I thought that was the whole fun of it, to see what other people design, and how you can figure out what they intended.

so surely I can’t answer for all, but to be honest, I always thought the opposite, it was EASIER for the designer to get it right,lso kudos belonged to the non designer even more.
in fact, I know of a few times ( names withheld) that the costume has already been made BEFORE the design was sent in to the folio contest.

Ricky

________________________________
From: Aurora Celeste <auroraceleste@gmail.com<mailto:auroraceleste%40gmail.com>>
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com<mailto:runacc%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2009 10:19:13 PM
Subject: Re: [runacc] Future Fashion Show Awards/singlepattern

Probably sticking my foot in where it doesn’t belong, but I trust y’all can
understand I’m arguing devil’s advocate, not trying to be mean or mad at
someone.

I’d just like to clarify why we think the FFS shouldn’t have many awards.
Is it because it’s not a contest where we just want to have fun? Then yes,
it should be awardless, or few awards. Or is it because things that are
already designed just aren’t as good as things designed by the maker? I
think conversation has been skirting this without actually saying it, so I
thought I’d bring it into the open. Even while obeying the picture and the
description 100% people can vary wildly in their choices within that frame.
Is that somehow less deserving of recognition than something designed and
made by the same person?

~Aurora

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I’m not sure I like the idea. If we continue to hold the Single Pattern Contest on Friday, I think that I prefer keeping it separate from the party. No matter what kind of physical set-up, the Friday Night Social is a Social. It’s where we get together to schmooze before beginning a full weekend of staged shows, workshops, and other programming. Let’s not interrupt that purpose with another staged event, even if the staging takes place on low-level stages/catwalks in the midst of the party.

Byron

—– Original Message —–
From: Martin Gear<mailto:MartinGear@comcast.net>
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com<mailto:runacc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 12:11 AM
Subject: Re: [runacc] single pattern

This is one of the few disadvantages of having CC move to different
venues each year. [And NO! I am not volunteering for anything right
now.] Now were we to be having Costume Con in the same hotel next year,
we could easily plan to do the Single Pattern Contest in the front of
the atrium as a part of the Social with the platforms and some lights
set up against the wall by the Dulaney Room. It would only involve
slight re-arranging of the furniture. But I’m certain that Henry’s hotel
is laid out completely differently, and his committee probably has a
completely different set of ideas as to how things can or should be
run. But I agree with the sentiment that I’d like to see the Single
Pattern contest integrated with the Friday night social.

^M^

Kevin Roche, Costume-Con 26 Chair wrote:
>
>
> I have to admit I liked the idea of it being done like a cafe fashion
> show… with the pieces being presented in the social while folks were
> there, with a route between the tables and a platform or two for focus.
>
> If you could have fixed lighting instruments to highlight those (small)
> risers, it could be a very effective and intimate way to both show off
> the Single Pattern entries and encourage social mixing.
>
> Kevin
>
> Gravely MacCabre wrote:
> >
> >
> > I think Eric Cannon video’d it so there is some hope.
> > if it is to be a separate thing, some amount of regular Masq tech
> > needs to be part of it.
> >
> > it would be nice if the main stage was set, and the ball room was used
> > for the social, but I’m sure from hotel to hotel, there are many ways
> > around this.
> >
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: percentages.
actually Karen is mostly right.
my stats are for the ‘sunday’ event which lumps in both ffs and sp. and it is, as she said , 7-8n %, even at a cc as small as cc-13, the numbers weigh out.

so by splitting them, we ended up OVERALL, with more people in costume, even tho the FFS dipped just a bit.

I haven’t run the lists to get out people who were in both, but I think it’ll end up being 10% of the con did one or the other.

just FYI.

and as always thanks to betsy for cc.org, so the baseball numbers crunching geek in me, has something to do.

Gravely MacCabre
http://www.castleblood.com
http://www.midnightmonsterhop.com
http://www.myspace.com/thecastleblood
http://www.myspace.com/midnightmonsterhop
clip samples at
http://www.veoh.com/channels/castleblood

________________________________
From: Bruce & Nora Mai <casamai@sbcglobal.net>
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 1:41:49 PM
Subject: RE: [runacc] Future Fashion Show Awards/singlepattern

And see – while I agree this would have to happen, I think having to
introduce the Skills Divisions this would take the fun out of it for some
people.

I think it’s interesting to note Karen and Ricky say that FFS percentages
have stayed the same, on average, despite worries that the SP was taking
away from it. Still keeping them separate from now is a good solution.

Bruce

> —–Original Message—–
> From: runacc@yahoogroups. com [mailto:runacc@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of
> Karen Heim
> Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 2:19 AM
> To: runacc@yahoogroups. com
> Subject: Re: [runacc] Future Fashion Show Awards/singlepatter n
>
>
> FFS: Regarding instituting the division system – well,
> yeah. The lack of divisions may eventually become the
> sticking point. Why participate when you know you have no
> chance of winning? People take the Folio Show very
> seriously, and work hard to bring the designer’s creation
> to life – but for what?
>
> Karen (not the momma)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Frankly, I can think of several CCs at which I would have entered the FFS – which I do just because I like the challenge of making up someone elds’s idea – but there was no time. And there was not enough time because the folio did not come out early enough for me. It has NOTHING to do with awards. Same for the Single Pattern.

Elaine

Nil significat nisi oscillat!

Would more awards equal more participants? Would the promise of more possible recognition translate into people actually finishing their outfits or committing to one more readily therefore bumping up the FFS numbers?

I know of one person who reserved one of my designs who didn’t get it done therefore it wasn’t in the show. Another person said she was going to try but ended up not doing it because she didn’t have time.
Three seperate people asked me if they could do 3 different designs later since they hadn’t had time before the con.

That would have been 5 more outfits on stage had they been given more importance by their constructors & completed. Would giving more awards make it more important to them to finish the outfits?

Nora

— In runacc@yahoogroups.com, “Ricky & Karen Dick” <castleb@…> wrote:
> I think Fashion Show awards should be minimal.
>
> Like you said– Best as executed by Designer and Best as executed by Non-Designer.
>
> The real competition was the design contest, and getting into the folio, so the participants are already making up designs that have won something.
>
> Think of the FFS as a showcase, and fun, vs. OMG another competition.
>
> But I can see where some will not want to put forth the time and effort unless there are multiple awards involved.
>
> If somebody has a better model, let’s hear discussion.
>
> Back in the day (Trek conventions in the 80’s run by Bjo Triimble), there were NO awards for being in the FFS–it was just a cool way to make another costume for the convention and be on stage a second time.
>
> –Karen
>
> —– Original Message —–
> From: Bruce & Nora Mai
> To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 1:24 PM
> Subject: [runacc] Future Fashion Show Awards
>
>
>
>
>
> So, over on the SLUTs list, a bit of interesting discussion popped up that
> has been brought up before.
>
> Our (meaning the Costume-Con community) philosophy is “Excellence Deserves
> Recognition”. This applies to everything except for the Future Fashion Show
> – there’s usually only the “Most accurate to Self” and “Most Accurate – not
> by the Designer”. Nora and I are more traditionalists on this, and while
> we don’t object to a couple of other awards, we think things should stay
> essentially as they are. At least one of our people has said if she was
> ever in a position to judge for the FFS again, she essentially said she
> would ignore the standard model and give out as many awards to people she
> believed deserved them.
>
> Our general thinking is:
>
> The FFS is not a competition in the same sense as a masquerade. But I think
> some folks look at it that way.
>
> The competition was the Folio. The challenge at the Show is for people to
> reproduce the designs as faithfully as possible – not to take someone’s
> design and use it as a jumping off point. My perception is that the
> designer should be pleased with bringing their drawing to life as they
> visualized it. Rewarding anything that fell short but looks pretty
> seems…..I dunno….less than faithful to the intent of the show.
>
> The Fashion Show is more relaxed – much like the Single Pattern show.
> Making it more of a standard competition has the potential of ratcheting up
> the pressure.
>
> Frequently, the Folio has designs that are more costume than clothing – too
> many more awards might skew this further, I would think. Where do you draw
> the line, then? Would you have to adopt the 33% rule? Where do you draw
> the line? On the other extreme, there is a danger of the whole “give
> everyone an award that deserves it” more easily getting out of hand.
>
> I’d be interested in hearing what some of you – especially Karen D. – think.
>
> Bruce
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ———————————————————-
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG – www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.287 / Virus Database: 270.12.23/2106 – Release Date: 05/09/09 06:54:00
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live�: Keep your life in sync.
http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_BR_life_in_synch_052009

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Not sure if any of you have run into this one yet on other boards.
CC-26 has ( and I pray all CC’s have not) been given a nickname.
for it is no longer costume-con,
it’s now presentation-con

great.

thank you judges and thank you space girls ( tho not the girls fault)

anymore thought’s on changing that panel name to
masquerade judges?

I think it just needs to happen

you know, at some point, the service mark holder will be obliged to TELL committees what to call judges and what to tell them etc… just to protect the mark, by changing the constitution to reflect all these things we’ve been talking about.

especially if each year is like starting over, which seems to have happened this past year.

Gravely MacCabre
http://www.castleblood.com
http://www.midnightmonsterhop.com
http://www.myspace.com/thecastleblood
http://www.myspace.com/midnightmonsterhop
clip samples at
http://www.veoh.com/channels/castleblood

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi, all!

If you’re receiving this message, you’re still listed as a part of the
ICG Guidelines committee or you are on the RunaCC mailing list. I am
cross-posting this one message as an invitation for you to join the
Guidelines discussion if you desire, because the discussion is
important and your participation would be very much appreciated!

It’s pretty clear to me from the conversations over the last week that
we need to do what we should have done the last time this stuff came
up. As I recall, there were two major documents still to be written
and presented to the ICG BOD: The Costumer’s Bill of Rights and the
Masquerade Safety Guidelines.

I suspect the judging and competition issues being raised on the D
list come under the former heading. While I know both of these
documents need attention (especially in light of another costumer
heading off the wrong edge of the stage but also from my
own…ahem…history onstage), it sounds to me like we should be
constructing the judging/entrant document first.

If you are still on the list but you are not interested in being a
part of this conversation, you are certainly welcome to stay. Would
those on the list who plan to participate in this process please
“raise your hands” and let me and Andy know you’re still here and
interested in the process? If you’re not already on the Guidelines
list, I’ll send you an invite as soon as I know you need one.

I’d really like to strike while the iron is hot!

Thanks!

Betsy Marks Delaney
Co-Chair, the ICG Guidelines Committee

Betsy —

Raising my hand. I am still on runacc and have been participating in the discussion on ICG-D. However, I am not on the Guidelines list and am not welcome on it because I expressed my belief that the ICG ought not to endorse guidelines.

Byron

—– Original Message —–
From: Betsy Delaney<mailto:aramintamd@gmail.com>
To: icg-guidelines@yahoogroups.com<mailto:icg-guidelines@yahoogroups.com> ; runacc@yahoogroups.com<mailto:runacc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 11:01 AM
Subject: [runacc] The Judging conversations on both RunaCC and ICG-D

Hi, all!

If you’re receiving this message, you’re still listed as a part of the
ICG Guidelines committee or you are on the RunaCC mailing list. I am
cross-posting this one message as an invitation for you to join the
Guidelines discussion if you desire, because the discussion is
important and your participation would be very much appreciated!

It’s pretty clear to me from the conversations over the last week that
we need to do what we should have done the last time this stuff came
up. As I recall, there were two major documents still to be written
and presented to the ICG BOD: The Costumer’s Bill of Rights and the
Masquerade Safety Guidelines.

I suspect the judging and competition issues being raised on the D
list come under the former heading. While I know both of these
documents need attention (especially in light of another costumer
heading off the wrong edge of the stage but also from my
own…ahem…history onstage), it sounds to me like we should be
constructing the judging/entrant document first.

If you are still on the list but you are not interested in being a
part of this conversation, you are certainly welcome to stay. Would
those on the list who plan to participate in this process please
“raise your hands” and let me and Andy know you’re still here and
interested in the process? If you’re not already on the Guidelines
list, I’ll send you an invite as soon as I know you need one.

I’d really like to strike while the iron is hot!

Thanks!

Betsy Marks Delaney
Co-Chair, the ICG Guidelines Committee

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Byron,

If you feel that way, it’s your choice, but I don’t think either Andy
or I ever said you weren’t welcome on the Guidelines list.

It’s up to you, of course. I’d like to see if we can move some of this
discussion there, and form some sort of summary document that we can
submit for comment. I don’t expect we will be able to cover all bases,
but providing a structure of some form that helps define what
apparently needs to be outlined as appropriate judging behavior and
appropriate masquerade instruction seems to be a beneficial thing.
Like the pirates say – it’s a guideline, not a law.

Let me know!

Cheers,

-b

On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 8:52 PM, Byron Connell <bpconnell@verizon.net> wrote:
> Betsy —
>
> Raising my hand. I am still on runacc and have been participating in the
> discussion on ICG-D. However, I am not on the Guidelines list and am not
> welcome on it because I expressed my belief that the ICG ought not to
> endorse guidelines.
>
> Byron

Betsy Delaney wrote:

> Byron,
>
> If you feel that way, it’s your choice, but I don’t think either Andy
> or I ever said you weren’t welcome on the Guidelines list.

Actually, I said that.

I feel that a member who supports abolishing the guidelines is at odds
with the mission of the committee.

andy

Ok, I remember now. And I think I tend to agree, Andy.

Byron, if you still feel this way, I will have to say that Andy is
right as he’s stated below.

If you feel differently now and can find some value in such a
document, you are certainly welcome to join and contribute. I won’t
object.

I’ve drafted up a VERY rough set of guidelines that can fall under the
heading of a Costumer’s Bill of Rights and Responsibilities, which I’m
going to toss in Andy’s direction first, then at the Guidelines list.

I’m in the process of getting my office ready to move, so I’m trying
to get us to a point where we can start the discussion so that I can
get work stuff done while still moving us forward, and as I said
anyone not already on the Guidelines list who wants to be a part of
the process is welcome to join.

Thanks!

Betsy

On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 10:52 PM, Andrew Trembley <attrembl@bovil.com> wrote:
> Betsy Delaney wrote:
>> Byron,
>>
>> If you feel that way, it’s your choice, but I don’t think either Andy
>> or I ever said you weren’t welcome on the Guidelines list.
>
> Actually, I said that.
>
> I feel that a member who supports abolishing the guidelines is at odds
> with the mission of the committee.
>
> andy

While I am in somewhat agreement with Byron, I think that I should
probably be in on this discussion if for no other reason than to see
that you don’t come up with anything too egregious 😀

Marty

Betsy Delaney wrote:

>
> Hi, all!
>
> If you’re receiving this message, you’re still listed as a part of the
> ICG Guidelines committee or you are on the RunaCC mailing list. I am
> cross-posting this one message as an invitation for you to join the
> Guidelines discussion if you desire, because the discussion is
> important and your participation would be very much appreciated!
>
> It’s pretty clear to me from the conversations over the last week that
> we need to do what we should have done the last time this stuff came
> up. As I recall, there were two major documents still to be written
> and presented to the ICG BOD: The Costumer’s Bill of Rights and the
> Masquerade Safety Guidelines.
>
> I suspect the judging and competition issues being raised on the D
> list come under the former heading. While I know both of these
> documents need attention (especially in light of another costumer
> heading off the wrong edge of the stage but also from my
> own…ahem…history onstage), it sounds to me like we should be
> constructing the judging/entrant document first.
>
> If you are still on the list but you are not interested in being a
> part of this conversation, you are certainly welcome to stay. Would
> those on the list who plan to participate in this process please
> “raise your hands” and let me and Andy know you’re still here and
> interested in the process? If you’re not already on the Guidelines
> list, I’ll send you an invite as soon as I know you need one.
>
> I’d really like to strike while the iron is hot!
>
> Thanks!
>
> Betsy Marks Delaney
> Co-Chair, the ICG Guidelines Committee
>
>
> ————————————————————————
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG.
> Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.3.0/1505 – Release Date: 6/16/2008 7:20 AM
>

OK, I’ve been promising to tell you how things imploded at CC26 for the
F&SF masquerade, especially with regards to our AV tech.

At this point, it’s far enough behind me that I think I can simply lay
out the sequence of events to explain; I’ll try not to make lots of excuses.

This is going to be a long post.

First off — the masquerade database transfer glitch has to be one of my
most embarrassing moments ever as a programmer.

We’d been moving data back and forth from our other web databases
without difficulty for months.
We’ve successfully run a local MS-Access version of the masq. database
(running on a laptop) to organize masquerades for the last 3 years,
getting it ready for Costume-Con. It’s been successfully used for 50
entry/100+ person masquerades. Shelley Monson had taken the latest
version home and optimized it further. The web db was specifically
designed to match the PC version.

We then hit two major glitches onsite. The first was that the import
tools (which we’d been using successfully for other databases) refused
to recognize two of the fields from the web db properly. I did
eventually solve this problem on Saturday, and had started printing from
the new table when I had to go teach a stage workshop. That was one of
the only two items I was teaching at CC26, and one I’d specifically
requested. It also cost me an hour of time.

The second glitch was that Shelley’s laptop decided it didn’t want to
talk to any other machine we owned (or to any of our USB floppies, etc),
so I didn’t have the final optimized version of the script templates,
and had to try to recreate them on the fly. Hence the missing fields.

Not trying the db transfer earlier was a stupid, stupid mistake on my
part. I only explain in so much detail so you’ll understand that I
didn’t have reason to expect problems.

Second… a minor note about staffing in general.

Andy has mentioned the difficulty we had finding judges for the
Historical, this was a general problem.
The Bay Area now has 4 or 5 largish “classic” fan-run conventions
(Further Confusion, PantheaCon, Baycon, DundraCon and Silicon) plus
FanimeCon and others.
Baycon, unfortunately, has never figured out how to gracefully share
resources. They also have an insanely generous entitlement system for
their volunteers (free memberships, room allowances, staff feed) which
makes life difficult for visiting conventions that can’t afford those
entitlements. We were very careful not to poach any of their department
heads, but in October we learned their executive had essentially
forbidden any of their staff to work on Costume-Con.

We worked with Further Confusion and other local groups and seemed to
have covered things fairly well, but this was one of the reasons we were
short-staffed. We also had some volunteers change their mind at the last
minute (like the original consuite crew).

Third… what we had planned for our tech…

We knew we were going to be lean on tech staff, since we no longer have
anything like TechnoFandom in the BayArea.
When Demicon moved back to the first weekend of May, we lost the Iowa
crew, who had planned to help us run our tech. I started looking in
We also had to support two stages.
This is one of the reasons the lighting design for the main stage was so
simple; I also wanted the focus to be on the costumes rather than stage
technical effects. (Ironic, given the complaints about perfomance
trumping costuming at CC26).
The tech crew was one of the few places where we decided to comp
memberships in advance, by way of incentive. As we were coming into the
week before the convention, we had a tech crew of 10 people, plus Smash
(who was also our equipment provider) and DJ Jean. Jean had to work on
Saturday, but was scheduled to run the mix on Friday night and at the
Fashion Show on Sunday. All masquerade entry music was going to be
ripped onto a laptop to make it simple to control at the show. It was
going to be tight, but I’ve seen this same group handle shows like ours
just fine.

Fourth and final: how it all fell apart beginning on Wednesday.

On Wednesday, two things happened.
1) 6 of our tech crew volunteers decided they weren’t going to do it
after all. No particular reason, they just decided to flake on us
2) Smash’s management tried to rescind his vacation for the weekend. He
gave them Thursday, but to keep Friday through Monday he had to agree to
be on call all weekend.

Smash was our equipment supplier, so that delayed our tech move-in by 24
hours. When he got to his warehouse on Thursday night, he discovered the
$50k video switcher that was in the design for the runway stage had been
stolen. That meant he had to redesign the video system for that show on
the spot. That cost us more setup time.

Friday’s AV requirements were fairly simple, so it went well (we now
know, though, that the ballroom is too small for a band with a trap
set). Since DJ Jean was going to be running sound on Sunday, she left
her DJ box on the stage to be moved downstairs later. This proved to be
critical on Saturday.

One major source of our problems was that having the crew cut down to
less than half its size meant we had no one to rip the soundtracks to a
laptop and sort them out, so we were going to have to use the CDs as
provided. There were three CD decks in the AV booth; Jean had two in her
DJ box (that’s 5 total).

During the course of tech rehearsals, one after another of the
contestant CDs refused to play in the main booth decks. They eventually
realized they had two more in Jean’s equipment, and got them to work
there (remember, she was at work on Saturday). They also figured during
the show it would be wiser to have the person who owned that equipment
run it during the show itself. This is why “the sound person wasn’t
present during rehearsals”… she wasn’t supposed to be the sound
person. It also put sound and lights in two different parts of the room,
which (even if they hadn’t been late coming off the press) the scripts
weren’t designed for. It’s also why we ended up with a DJ on the corner
of the stage; it wasn’t part of the original design at all.

Now — a word about the CD problems. 7 of the 9 gross miscues involved
CDs with more than one track, when the rules specifically called for a
CD with a single track. Some of these were albums where the contestants
asked for track X of Y (or in one case, start at 0:55 of track X and
play until 1:47). Others were sets of multiple short tracks (10
six-second tracks, for instance), where they wanted all of them played.
This could have been handled if we had the manpower to rip the tracks
as we’d planned. One of the other miscues was due to the holographic
angel guy storming the tech booth because they’d played track 1 instead
of 14, and they missed cues while they were fending him off. We also
had one of Jean’s two decks jam. By the end of the night we were on the
last of those 5 decks.

Shelley and Eleanor had an extra 24 hours, so they used Ellie’s laptop
to rip the entry tracks and burned one single CD with one track per
entry; I could also warn them to burn it at low speed which dramatically
reduces the risk of misplay in an audio teck.

That’s pretty much it.

I can also tell you that folks in the audience who were not, like those
of us on this list, painfully aware of what was obviously not working
right, really enjoyed the show.

I’m going to hit “send” before I go back and try to second-guess myself
on this post.

Kevin

Locking the barn door after the horse has been stolen:

I offer, for any Costume-Con tech crew finding itself in such need
again, my services as a roving sound editor.

I don’t travel without my laptop and have been working with sound
editing for decades now (starting with tape cassettes and patch
cords). Sound and video editing are now part of my current job
description.

I recognize that there are other people on list list who are also very
qualified, but I suspect they will also be busy doing other things
during their CCs, and so far as I know I am not committed to any of
the concoms for the foreseeable future. (If I’m wrong about this,
better tell me NOW!) Please consider this an offer of assistance and
not an encroachment of territory.

And, if your tech/sound crew winds up in a pinch again (which we will
all knock wood NOW not to happen), please ask someone to find me.
Seriously! It kills me to know I could have helped somewhere and that
I wasn’t asked.

I understand from Judy’s recent posting on the CC LJ community that
CC27 is asking for either .wav or .mp3 files for masquerade sound. I
am willing to make myself available to help any entry who can provide
me with a disk or tape in advance of or at the con. If asked, I will
also bring additional spare equipment as a safeguard.

Terribly sorry not to have known these details at-con. I was wandering
around Saturday looking for things to do.

Betsy

Betsy –
Thank you for the offer, but CC-27 will have a dedicated tech with
equipment to handle the sound for anyone who does not come prepared,
including access to a “library” of possible masquerade music. Like you,
I too travel with a laptop with sound editing software and not have the
“masquerade music DVD” loaded on the machine in the form of mp3 files.
(The plan for CC-27 is to load everyone’s masquerade music/sounds into
an I-tunes library arranged in run order, and yes, we’ll have CD back-up
and a spare laptop at the sound desk just in case.) BTW, my sound
editing experience goes back to the late 50’s editing 1/4″ open reel
tapes with a razor blade, a yard stick, and “scotch” tape t o produce
segues. Like Betsy, if I’m not otherwise engaged I’m happy to offer the
same services when I’m at a con.

Marty

Betsy Delaney wrote:

>
> Locking the barn door after the horse has been stolen:
>
> I offer, for any Costume-Con tech crew finding itself in such need
> again, my services as a roving sound editor.
>
> I don’t travel without my laptop and have been working with sound
> editing for decades now (starting with tape cassettes and patch
> cords). Sound and video editing are now part of my current job
> description.
>
> I recognize that there are other people on list list who are also very
> qualified, but I suspect they will also be busy doing other things
> during their CCs, and so far as I know I am not committed to any of
> the concoms for the foreseeable future. (If I’m wrong about this,
> better tell me NOW!) Please consider this an offer of assistance and
> not an encroachment of territory.
>
> And, if your tech/sound crew winds up in a pinch again (which we will
> all knock wood NOW not to happen), please ask someone to find me.
> Seriously! It kills me to know I could have helped somewhere and that
> I wasn’t asked.
>
> I understand from Judy’s recent posting on the CC LJ community that
> CC27 is asking for either .wav or .mp3 files for masquerade sound. I
> am willing to make myself available to help any entry who can provide
> me with a disk or tape in advance of or at the con. If asked, I will
> also bring additional spare equipment as a safeguard.
>
> Terribly sorry not to have known these details at-con. I was wandering
> around Saturday looking for things to do.
>
> Betsy
>
>
> ————————————————————————
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG.
> Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.4.0/1509 – Release Date: 6/19/2008 8:00 AM
>

The subject of audio editing is something that comes up quite
frequently. People always have recommendations of things they used,
both freeware and licensed. The pros and cons of each, how
easy/difficult to use, what you can and cannot do. For my audio at
CC24, I used a trial version of something, I think it was an Adobe
product. I finally got what I wanted but I spent far too much time on
the learning curve for one minute of audio. Also, the audio file I
exported was recorded too quitely to be used and I had to get the MP3
version I had on my laptop at the con.

When I needed audio for a masquerade in April, I again started looking
for something use, as I’d never really found something I liked. Then
I thought, what about Windows Movie Maker. I’d used it recently for
the first time to make some photo slide shows with sound. I knew I
could use it to simply mix audio, trim clips, fade in, fade out, etc.
I just wasn’t sure about putting it into a .MOV file. To my surprise,
having only audio in the project, it kept it in an audio format
(either WMA or WAV, I don’t remember), and didn’t convert it into a
movie.

Anyone with Windows XP/Vista has Windows Movie Maker and has probably
never used it, as its for video and many/most people don’t do video, I
hadn’t for years. Despite being designed for simple movie editing, it
does everything for audio that probably 99% of masquerade entries
need. It’s very simple to use. It imports MP3, which is how most
people will have their music anyway. If they want a voice over, they
just need a microphone and they can record it in Windows Sound
Recorder as a WAV.

My point is that audio is a challenge for many costumers which then
becomes problems for tech. The tools are readily available, free and
simple to use. We really just need more education using the KISS
method.

Michael

Sounds like a panel/workshop to me.

Note my previous mention of availability…….

Cheers,

-b

On Thu, Jun 19, 2008 at 1:12 PM, Bruno <bruno@soulmasque.com> wrote:

> My point is that audio is a challenge for many costumers which then
> becomes problems for tech. The tools are readily available, free and
> simple to use. We really just need more education using the KISS
> method.
>
> Michael

In a message dated 6/19/2008 11:01:32 AM Central Daylight Time,
aramintamd@gmail.com writes:

> Locking the barn door after the horse has been stolen:
>
> I offer, for any Costume-Con tech crew finding itself in such need
> again, my services as a roving sound editor.
>
>
>
>
>

You fool! I thought I saw you at the last Volunteers 12-Step Meeting! ;P

Seriously, if you want to help out at CC28, I will get you in contact with
our Sound Jedi.

Henry

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Wouldn’t have offered if I didn’t know what I was getting into! 😎

Cheers,

-b

On Thu, Jun 19, 2008 at 1:29 PM, <osierhenry@cs.com> wrote:
> In a message dated 6/19/2008 11:01:32 AM Central Daylight Time,
>
> aramintamd@gmail.com writes:
>> Locking the barn door after the horse has been stolen:
>>
>> I offer, for any Costume-Con tech crew finding itself in such need
>> again, my services as a roving sound editor.

In a message dated 6/19/2008 12:21:23 PM Central Daylight Time,
aramintamd@gmail.com writes:

> Sounds like a panel/workshop to me.
>
> Note my previous mention of availability…….
>
>
>
>
>

I forwarded that to my Programming Monkee.

Henry

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I’ve actually suggested this as a potential program topic for both
Westercon and Worldcon this year.

It’s not only the “how do I assemble the audio” question, but “how do I
make the CD so it will actually work in almost any player” question.

Kevin

>
>

Yep! Agreed!!!

Can even give the basics (what you REALLY need to know about
Goldwave/Moviemaker/whatever to edit your sound) AND how to rip music
for editing.

Cheers,

-b

On Thu, Jun 19, 2008 at 2:14 PM, Kevin Roche, CC26 Convention Chair
<chair@cc26.org> wrote:

> I’ve actually suggested this as a potential program topic for both
> Westercon and Worldcon this year.
>
> It’s not only the “how do I assemble the audio” question, but “how do I
> make the CD so it will actually work in almost any player” question.
>
> Kevin

In a message dated 6/19/2008 1:26:27 PM Central Daylight Time,
aramintamd@gmail.com writes:

> Yep! Agreed!!!
>
> Can even give the basics (what you REALLY need to know about
> Goldwave/Moviemaker/whatever to edit your sound) AND how to rip music
> for editing.
>
> Cheers,
>
> -b
>
> On Thu, Jun 19, 2008 at 2:14 PM, Kevin Roche, CC26 Convention Chair
> <chair@cc26.org> wrote:
> >I’ve actually suggested this as a potential program topic for both
> >Westercon and Worldcon this year.
> >
> >It’s not only the “how do I assemble the audio” question, but “how do I
> >make the CD so it will actually work in almost any player” question.
> >
> >Kevin
>
>
>
>
>
>

Ok, Betsy, you can plan to be at that panel as CC28! Kevin, do you want in on
this?

Henry

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Which should be recorded and made available on the ICG Web site.

We should do that with a lot of the costuming/stagecraft type of panels/workshops.

Byron

—– Original Message —–
From: Betsy Delaney<mailto:aramintamd@gmail.com>
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com<mailto:runacc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 1:21 PM
Subject: Re: [runacc] Presentation audio [was Saturday’s Elephant]

Sounds like a panel/workshop to me.

Note my previous mention of availability…….

Cheers,

-b

On Thu, Jun 19, 2008 at 1:12 PM, Bruno <bruno@soulmasque.com<mailto:bruno@soulmasque.com>> wrote:

> My point is that audio is a challenge for many costumers which then
> becomes problems for tech. The tools are readily available, free and
> simple to use. We really just need more education using the KISS
> method.
>
> Michael

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I know that one of the challenges in running Costume-Con is getting the
word out without going broke.

If we want to have a larger West Coast contingent attending more
easterly conventions (with, I’ll admit, an eye to getting them engaged
and interested in making the effort to bid for future CCs), we need to
keep getting info to them at other conventions and events out here.

Andy and I spent buckets of money travelling to promote CC26, but,
equally importantly, a good number of folk from the Midwest and Eastern
US very kindly helped by getting our literature out at lots of events we
couldn’t attend.

I’d like to return the favor.

If you send me stuff, I’ll put it out. We’ll be at Westercon, Worldcon,
Silicon and perhaps Yaoicon this year, plus some assorted BAERS, PEERS,
GBACG and SCA events. I’d like to keep the left coasters excited enough
that it doesn’t take another 14 years to get it back here.

I also think this is another way we can use this list effectively, to
help keep future Costume-Cons vital and fresh. If we can save some of
our personal travel money to go to the conventions we want to attend,
and help each others’ committees distribute info, it will be easier to
promote the conventions without digging quite so deeply into our
personal costuming budget. 🙂

Kevin

Henry –
I worked my way through college first at a commercial radio station and
then at a speech & hearing clinic. I did sound for a rock band and
studio engineered a jazz album. At one of the worldcons in the 1980’s I
did the sound for four of the six top winners. Can I play too?

^M^

osierhenry@cs.com wrote:

>
> In a message dated 6/19/2008 1:26:27 PM Central Daylight Time,
> aramintamd@gmail.com <mailto:aramintamd%40gmail.com> writes:
> > Yep! Agreed!!!
> >
> > Can even give the basics (what you REALLY need to know about
> > Goldwave/Moviemaker/whatever to edit your sound) AND how to rip music
> > for editing.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > -b
> >
> > On Thu, Jun 19, 2008 at 2:14 PM, Kevin Roche, CC26 Convention Chair
> > <chair@cc26.org <mailto:chair%40cc26.org>> wrote:
> > >I’ve actually suggested this as a potential program topic for both
> > >Westercon and Worldcon this year.
> > >
> > >It’s not only the “how do I assemble the audio” question, but “how do I
> > >make the CD so it will actually work in almost any player” question.
> > >
> > >Kevin
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> Ok, Betsy, you can plan to be at that panel as CC28! Kevin, do you
> want in on
> this?
>
> Henry
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> ————————————————————————
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG.
> Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1510 – Release Date: 6/19/2008 3:21 PM
>

Wow. Talk about a series of unfortunate events. I understand the shiny guy
being upset, but that was completely inappropriate to complain while the
show was still going on, impacting another performer’s presentation.

And yes, after watching the video, the audience certainly was not aware of
the drama backstage, but I’m sure they were aware they seemed to be a slew
of awkward moments.

Thanks for the other side of the story.

Bruce

This is very smart. I was thinking, “Boy, there’s gotta be a way to more or
less prevent people coming to Tech with a CD and saying ‘Play this many
seconds of this track and…..'”. This would force people to make more
precisely mixed CDs. Good idea.

> —–Original Message—–
> From: runacc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:runacc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> Betsy Delaney
> Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 11:01 AM
> To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [runacc] Saturday’s Elephant
>
>
> I understand from Judy’s recent posting on the CC LJ community that
> CC27 is asking for either .wav or .mp3 files for masquerade sound. I
> am willing to make myself available to help any entry who can provide
> me with a disk or tape in advance of or at the con. If asked, I will
> also bring additional spare equipment as a safeguard.
>
>
> Betsy

I thought we were well past that with cassettes.

It needs to be in the rules and published pre-event, so that when they DO show up with stuff like that, you have the right to say no.
If you have the tech to fix it and deal with it for them, that’s great, awesome, and awfully nice, but why oh why are we going over what I at least thought was fixed 20 years ago.
just because the technology has changed, doesn’t mean the stoopidity of giving anyone your music in anyway that has any degree of possible screw up is allowable

Gravely MacCabre

—– Original Message —-
From: Bruce & Nora Mai <casamai@sbcglobal.net>
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 11:08:43 PM
Subject: [runacc] CC27 audio (was Saturday’s elephant)

This is very smart. I was thinking, “Boy, there’s gotta be a way to more or
less prevent people coming to Tech with a CD and saying ‘Play this many
seconds of this track and…..'”. This would force people to make more
precisely mixed CDs. Good idea.

> —–Original Message—–
> From: runacc@yahoogroups. com [mailto:runacc@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of
> Betsy Delaney
> Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 11:01 AM
> To: runacc@yahoogroups. com
> Subject: Re: [runacc] Saturday’s Elephant
>
>
> I understand from Judy’s recent posting on the CC LJ community that
> CC27 is asking for either .wav or .mp3 files for masquerade sound. I
> am willing to make myself available to help any entry who can provide
> me with a disk or tape in advance of or at the con. If asked, I will
> also bring additional spare equipment as a safeguard.
>
>
> Betsy

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

the tech/sound question reminded me of this which will seem like an old man Andy Rooney rant, but I don’t care.

What the hell is up with showing me your documentation ON your lap top, or no lie, on your cell phone .

If I can’t hold it and take it to judges chambers with me, I reserve the right to ignore it.

I’m just sayin is all…….

Gravely MacCabre
http://www.castleblood.com
http://www.midnightmonsterhop.com
http://www.myspace.com/thecastleblood
http://www.myspace.com/midnightmonsterhop
clip samples at
http://www.veoh.com/channels/castleblood

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yeah – every time we need to do a complicated mix (not just copying x
minutes of y) I have to re-invent the wheel, because I can never
remember what I did the last time. It doesn’t help that the program
you used last time now doesn’t work because of some computer system
update or hiccup….

We usually get it OK, though. One time, the Archon sound guy (Yay,
Mike!!) saved us – we’d put together a mix of several things – sound
effects from one website, music downloaded from another, voice over,
etc. etc. I got it all pasted together relatively seamlessly, except
for the last bit. No matter what I tried, it wouldn’t copy on to the
end of the finished mix. So, we took the mostly finished mix and the
extra bit on separate CD’s, and Mike was able to mix it together for
the presentation. I still don’t know what was up with that….

So, yes, need a panel for this….

Sandy

At 01:25 PM 6/19/2008, you wrote:

>Yep! Agreed!!!
>
>Can even give the basics (what you REALLY need to know about
>Goldwave/Moviemaker/whatever to edit your sound) AND how to rip music
>for editing.
>
>Cheers,
>
>-b
>
>On Thu, Jun 19, 2008 at 2:14 PM, Kevin Roche, CC26 Convention Chair
><<mailto:chair%40cc26.org>chair@cc26.org> wrote:
> > I’ve actually suggested this as a potential program topic for both
> > Westercon and Worldcon this year.
> >
> > It’s not only the “how do I assemble the audio” question, but “how do I
> > make the CD so it will actually work in almost any player” question.
> >
> > Kevin
>

“Those Who Fail To Learn History
Are Doomed to Repeat It;
Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly —
Why They Are Simply Doomed.

Achemdro’hm
“The Illusion of Historical Fact”
— C.Y. 4971

Andromeda

I agree with you, but really? No way. Cell phone???

Geeze!

Do we need to tell people paper is best? Amazing! Used to be we just
had to say copies of book covers, not the whole book.

Welcome to the 21st Century…

-b

On Thu, Jun 19, 2008 at 11:44 PM, Gravely MacCabre <gravelymac@yahoo.com> wrote:
> the tech/sound question reminded me of this which will seem like an old man
> Andy Rooney rant, but I don’t care.
>
> What the hell is up with showing me your documentation ON your lap top, or
> no lie, on your cell phone .
>
> If I can’t hold it and take it to judges chambers with me, I reserve the
> right to ignore it.
>
> I’m just sayin is all…….
>
> Gravely MacCabre
> http://www.castleblood.com
> http://www.midnightmonsterhop.com
> http://www.myspace.com/thecastleblood
> http://www.myspace.com/midnightmonsterhop
> clip samples at
> http://www.veoh.com/channels/castleblood

I agree with you. I haven’t handed in a recorded piece of music in
well over 15 years that wasn’t just cut down, but edited to end at :55
for insurance, with at least two extras just in case. There are plenty
of people who either can’t be bothered or are so technologically
challenged they don’t even know they should be asking for help.

The tools are a heck of a lot better than they were even 10 years ago,
though. I still remember the recording session for Agalla (CC11).
Being able to set up shop in a corner of the con with a laptop and a
CD is just too cool.

After doing the sound design for three shows, I’ve taken my editing
experience a step and a half further and I’m playing with Adobe
Premiere now. Doing well enough da boss is willing to trust me to edit
and produce pieces for distribution and advertising. I feel like a kid
in a candy shop.

-b

On Thu, Jun 19, 2008 at 11:41 PM, Gravely MacCabre <gravelymac@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I thought we were well past that with cassettes.

Mainly because people only pay half of their attention to what is being
said, or don’t think something applies to them. Also, you’ll probably still
have some people new to the process, despite publishing the policy ahead of
time, or don’t have the skills, but at least you can point to the policy and
say, “Did you see this?”

Bruce

> —–Original Message—–
> From: runacc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:runacc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> Gravely MacCabre
> Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 10:42 PM
> To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [runacc] CC27 audio (was Saturday’s elephant)
>

> why oh why are we going over what I at least thought was fixed 20
> years ago.
> just because the technology has changed, doesn’t mean the stoopidity of

giving

> anyone your music in anyway that has any degree of possible screw up is

allowable

>
> Gravely MacCabre
>
>
>
>
>
> —– Original Message —-
> From: Bruce & Nora Mai <casamai@sbcglobal.net>
> To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 11:08:43 PM
> Subject: [runacc] CC27 audio (was Saturday’s elephant)
>
>
> This is very smart. I was thinking, “Boy, there’s gotta be a way to more

or

> less prevent people coming to Tech with a CD and saying ‘Play this many
> seconds of this track and…..'”. This would force people to make more
> precisely mixed CDs. Good idea.
>
> > —–Original Message—–
> > From: runacc@yahoogroups. com [mailto:runacc@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf
> Of
> > Betsy Delaney
> > Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 11:01 AM
> > To: runacc@yahoogroups. com
> > Subject: Re: [runacc] Saturday’s Elephant
> >
> >
> > I understand from Judy’s recent posting on the CC LJ community that
> > CC27 is asking for either .wav or .mp3 files for masquerade sound. I
> > am willing to make myself available to help any entry who can provide
> > me with a disk or tape in advance of or at the con. If asked, I will
> > also bring additional spare equipment as a safeguard.
> >
> >
> > Betsy
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> ————————————
>
> View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/Yahoo!

Groups

> Links
>
>
>

You gotta be kidding me? Is this showing up at the anime cons?

This is just plain laziness. Again, sounds like a rule needs to be stated
clearly ahead of time.

Bruce

> —–Original Message—–
> From: runacc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:runacc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> Gravely MacCabre
> Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 10:44 PM
> To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [runacc] weird crap in the new world order.
>
> the tech/sound question reminded me of this which will seem like an old

man Andy

> Rooney rant, but I don’t care.
>
> What the hell is up with showing me your documentation ON your lap top, or

no lie,

> on your cell phone .
>
> If I can’t hold it and take it to judges chambers with me, I reserve the

right to ignore

> it.
>
> I’m just sayin is all…….
>
> Gravely MacCabre
> http://www.castleblood.com
> http://www.midnightmonsterhop.com
> http://www.myspace.com/thecastleblood
> http://www.myspace.com/midnightmonsterhop
> clip samples at
> http://www.veoh.com/channels/castleblood
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> ————————————
>
> View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/Yahoo!

Groups

> Links
>
>
>

OMG that’s funny! Next time I’m doing my documentation in Power
Point!! (which I hate, btw)

Seriously though, I think you’re totally within your rights to refuse
it. What are they going to do if you ask for multiple copies for
multiple judges? Bring more cell phones?

Nora
— In runacc@yahoogroups.com, Gravely MacCabre <gravelymac@…>
wrote:

> the tech/sound question reminded me of this which will seem like an

old man Andy Rooney rant, but I don’t care.

>
> What the hell is up with showing me your documentation ON your lap

top, or no lie, on your cell phone .

>
> If I can’t hold it and take it to judges chambers with me, I

reserve the right to ignore it.

>
> I’m just sayin is all…….
>
> Gravely MacCabre
> http://www.castleblood.com
> http://www.midnightmonsterhop.com
> http://www.myspace.com/thecastleblood
> http://www.myspace.com/midnightmonsterhop
> clip samples at
> http://www.veoh.com/channels/castleblood
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

In a message dated 6/19/2008 7:59:42 PM Central Daylight Time, chair@cc26.org
writes:

> If you send me stuff, I’ll put it out. We’ll be at Westercon, Worldcon,
> Silicon and perhaps Yaoicon this year, plus some assorted BAERS, PEERS,
> GBACG and SCA events. I’d like to keep the left coasters excited enough
> that it doesn’t take another 14 years to get it back here.

Kevin,
I can e-mail you files in PDF format. Let me know which e-mail address
you want them sent to.
Henry

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 6/19/2008 9:44:23 PM Central Daylight Time,
MartinGear@comcast.net writes:

> Henry –
> I worked my way through college first at a commercial radio station and
> then at a speech &hearing clinic. I did sound for a rock band and
> studio engineered a jazz album. At one of the worldcons in the 1980’s I
> did the sound for four of the six top winners. Can I play too?
>
>
>

Certainly, Marty!

Henry

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 6/19/2008 10:09:16 PM Central Daylight Time,
casamai@sbcglobal.net writes:

> This is very smart. I was thinking, “Boy, there’s gotta be a way to more or
> less prevent people coming to Tech with a CD and saying ‘Play this many
> seconds of this track and…..'”. This would force people to make more
> precisely mixed CDs. Good idea.
>
> >—–Original Message—–
> >From: runacc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:runacc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> >Betsy Delaney
> >Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 11:01 AM
> >To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: Re: [runacc] Saturday’s Elephant
> >
> >
> >I understand from Judy’s recent posting on the CC LJ community that
> >CC27 is asking for either .wav or .mp3 files for masquerade sound. I
> >am willing to make myself available to help any entry who can provide
> >me with a disk or tape in advance of or at the con. If asked, I will
> >also bring additional spare equipment as a safeguard.
>
>
>

I know that at Archon, in St. Louis, for those who have not heard of it,
Mike, the Sound Tech, converts all the audio he gets into a format his computer
likes. I believe that my Sound Jedi does the same thing. I am of the belief that
this is a growing trend at masquerades.

Henry

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 6/19/2008 10:44:23 PM Central Daylight Time,
gravelymac@yahoo.com writes:

> What the hell is up with showing me your documentation ON your lap top, or
> no lie, on your cell phone .

Cell phone?!? You’re kidding, right? Right?

Henry

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

For CC24 & 25 we ripped everything to my laptop and ran sound from
iTunes. For CC23, we ripped all of the audio (except for a couple on
tape), then burned a CD for the sound tech to use.

Les

—

Live, never to be ashamed if everything you do is published around the
world. Even if what is published is not true. — Richard Bach

On Jun 20, 2008, at 9:57 AM, osierhenry@cs.com wrote:

> In a message dated 6/19/2008 10:09:16 PM Central Daylight Time,
> casamai@sbcglobal.net writes:
> > This is very smart. I was thinking, “Boy, there’s gotta be a way
> to more or
> > less prevent people coming to Tech with a CD and saying ‘Play this
> many
> > seconds of this track and…..'”. This would force people to make
> more
> > precisely mixed CDs. Good idea.
> >
> > >—–Original Message—–
> > >From: runacc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:runacc@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of
> > >Betsy Delaney
> > >Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 11:01 AM
> > >To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
> > >Subject: Re: [runacc] Saturday’s Elephant
> > >
> > >
> > >I understand from Judy’s recent posting on the CC LJ community that
> > >CC27 is asking for either .wav or .mp3 files for masquerade
> sound. I
> > >am willing to make myself available to help any entry who can
> provide
> > >me with a disk or tape in advance of or at the con. If asked, I
> will
> > >also bring additional spare equipment as a safeguard.
> >
> >
> >
> I know that at Archon, in St. Louis, for those who have not heard of
> it,
> Mike, the Sound Tech, converts all the audio he gets into a format
> his computer
> likes. I believe that my Sound Jedi does the same thing. I am of the
> belief that
> this is a growing trend at masquerades.
>
> Henry
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

At 10:44 PM 6/19/2008, you wrote:

Okay! That’s new! I’m no luddite, but this is ridiculous. What is
wrong with paper?

Pierre

>the tech/sound question reminded me of this which will seem like an
>old man Andy Rooney rant, but I don’t care.
>
>What the hell is up with showing me your documentation ON your lap
>top, or no lie, on your cell phone .
>
>If I can’t hold it and take it to judges chambers with me, I reserve
>the right to ignore it.
>
>I’m just sayin is all…….
>
>Gravely MacCabre

“Those Who Fail To Learn History
Are Doomed to Repeat It;
Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly —
Why They Are Simply Doomed.

Achemdro’hm
“The Illusion of Historical Fact”
— C.Y. 4971

Andromeda

Did they offer to transmit the documentation to the judges’ phones? 🙂

Byron

—– Original Message —–
From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger<mailto:costumrs@radiks.net>
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com<mailto:runacc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 5:12 PM
Subject: Re: [runacc] weird crap in the new world order.

At 10:44 PM 6/19/2008, you wrote:

Okay! That’s new! I’m no luddite, but this is ridiculous. What is
wrong with paper?

Pierre

>the tech/sound question reminded me of this which will seem like an
>old man Andy Rooney rant, but I don’t care.
>
>What the hell is up with showing me your documentation ON your lap
>top, or no lie, on your cell phone .
>
>If I can’t hold it and take it to judges chambers with me, I reserve
>the right to ignore it.
>
>I’m just sayin is all…….
>
>Gravely MacCabre

“Those Who Fail To Learn History
Are Doomed to Repeat It;
Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly —
Why They Are Simply Doomed.

Achemdro’hm
“The Illusion of Historical Fact”
— C.Y. 4971

Andromeda

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >the tech/sound question reminded me of this which will seem like an
> >old man Andy Rooney rant, but I don’t care.
> >
> >What the hell is up with showing me your documentation ON your lap
> >top, or no lie, on your cell phone .
> >
> >If I can’t hold it and take it to judges chambers with me, I reserve
> >the right to ignore it.
> >
> >I’m just sayin is all…….
> >
> >Gravely MacCabre

I think it’s a misunderstanding in how the judging works. In a lot of anime
cons I’ve been to, there is no need to take the documentation to the judges’
room because there is no judging photo. It’s enough to compare the
documentation to the costume in person.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I guess if they can run registration by text message, why not documentation?

Michael

Quoting Byron Connell <bpconnell@verizon.net>:

> Did they offer to transmit the documentation to the judges’ phones? 🙂
>
> Byron
>
>

Marty & Ricky: Please note:

For anyone planning to enter the single pattern contest @ CC-27, you
should be aware that Butterick has two different numbers for the man’s
duster coat. I discovered to my annoyance that I already had this
pattern, after buying it under the number listed for the contest. And,
of course, had already discarded the receipt! It has been sold as both
#3830, and as #P142. If anyone wants my second copy please let me
know. I can bring it with me to WorldCon, Pups meetings, Philcon or
Albacon, as necessary.

Tina Connell

Hi, all!

Thanks to more help from Kevin Roche than I can enumerate here, we’ve
FINALLY moved Costume-ConNections (http://www.Costume-Con.org/) to its
new home. It may take you a day or so to see the change (just came up
for me), but you’ll see it shortly!

Because of Kevin’s hard work, the gallery has transfered intact, with
no errors we could find.

If you notice anything weird with the site now that it’s been moved
successfully, please let us know ASAP!

Send email to Karen Dick or me, please, not to the list.

We’ll be adding the two missing CCs (25 and 26) starting around Labor
Day. As always, if you notice information on a record that is
incorrect, let us know and we’ll fix the problem!

Enjoy!!!

Betsy (on behalf of the Costume-Con Archives)

I noticed you’re still double displaying the custom field info in two
columns. I take it you haven’t had a chance to fix that yet?

Bruce

> —–Original Message—–
> From: runacc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:runacc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> Betsy Delaney
> Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 9:30 AM
> To: ICG-D; runacc@yahoogroups.com; siliconweb@yahoogroups.com; cc26sv-
> chat@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [runacc] Costume-ConNections has moved!!!
>
> Hi, all!
>
> Thanks to more help from Kevin Roche than I can enumerate here, we’ve
> FINALLY moved Costume-ConNections (http://www.Costume-Con.org/) to its
> new home. It may take you a day or so to see the change (just came up
> for me), but you’ll see it shortly!
>
> Because of Kevin’s hard work, the gallery has transfered intact, with
> no errors we could find.
>
> If you notice anything weird with the site now that it’s been moved
> successfully, please let us know ASAP!
>
> Send email to Karen Dick or me, please, not to the list.
>
> We’ll be adding the two missing CCs (25 and 26) starting around Labor
> Day. As always, if you notice information on a record that is
> incorrect, let us know and we’ll fix the problem!
>
> Enjoy!!!
>
> Betsy (on behalf of the Costume-Con Archives)
>
> ————————————
>
> View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/Yahoo!

Groups

> Links
>
>
>

Hi, Bruce!

Not a bit of it. Kevin and I barely got the site moved before the
hosting account locked up (I still haven’t broken the news to them),
and I’m on the road right now (in Louisville, CO, headed East on I-70
starting tomorrow morning)!

Karen and I still need to do the whole training thing so she knows how
to add and modify records, which we’re doing after Labor Day. With
luck, we can try to fix the problem, but I’m not cluefull enough to be
sure it will work.

I know it’s a pain, especially when rules are displayed…

Sorry!

Have you noticed anything else odd?

Thanks!

Betsy

On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 6:48 PM, Bruce & Nora Mai <casamai@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> I noticed you’re still double displaying the custom field info in two
> columns. I take it you haven’t had a chance to fix that yet?
>
> Bruce
>
>> —–Original Message—–
>> From: runacc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:runacc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
>> Betsy Delaney
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 9:30 AM
>> To: ICG-D; runacc@yahoogroups.com; siliconweb@yahoogroups.com; cc26sv-
>> chat@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: [runacc] Costume-ConNections has moved!!!
>>
>> Hi, all!
>>
>> Thanks to more help from Kevin Roche than I can enumerate here, we’ve
>> FINALLY moved Costume-ConNections (http://www.Costume-Con.org/) to its
>> new home. It may take you a day or so to see the change (just came up
>> for me), but you’ll see it shortly!
>>
>> Because of Kevin’s hard work, the gallery has transfered intact, with
>> no errors we could find.
>>
>> If you notice anything weird with the site now that it’s been moved
>> successfully, please let us know ASAP!
>>
>> Send email to Karen Dick or me, please, not to the list.
>>
>> We’ll be adding the two missing CCs (25 and 26) starting around Labor
>> Day. As always, if you notice information on a record that is
>> incorrect, let us know and we’ll fix the problem!
>>
>> Enjoy!!!
>>
>> Betsy (on behalf of the Costume-Con Archives)
>>
>> ————————————
>>
>> View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/Yahoo!
> Groups
>> Links
>>
>>
>>
>