Once the Membership database is updated from the con I’ll format a list of persons who wanted to receive info about future CCs. Any requests as to how everybody would like that & what info they’d find useful from our database?

Nora

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 4/5/2007 9:23:05 PM Central Daylight Time,
casamai@sbcglobal.net writes:

> Any requests as to how everybody would like that &what info they’d find
> useful from our database?

Nora,
What format do you have in at this point?
Henry

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I also was going to ask what format was being used.

–Karen

—– Original Message —–
From: osierhenry@cs.com
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2007 6:40 PM
Subject: Re: [runacc] the CC25 database

In a message dated 4/5/2007 9:23:05 PM Central Daylight Time,
casamai@sbcglobal.net writes:
> Any requests as to how everybody would like that &what info they’d find
> useful from our database?
Nora,
What format do you have in at this point?
Henry

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

——————————————————————————

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.26/748 – Release Date: 4/5/2007 3:33 PM

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Access & Excel

Nora

—– Original Message —–
From: osierhenry@cs.com
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2007 5:40 PM
Subject: Re: [runacc] the CC25 database

In a message dated 4/5/2007 9:23:05 PM Central Daylight Time,
casamai@sbcglobal.net writes:
> Any requests as to how everybody would like that &what info they’d find
> useful from our database?
Nora,
What format do you have in at this point?
Henry

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
Yahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 4/7/2007 2:45:14 PM Central Daylight Time,
casamai@sbcglobal.net writes:

> Access &Excel
>
>
>
>
>

Excel, please!
Henry

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Primo. I can read both.

–Karen

—– Original Message —–
From: Bruce & Nora Mai
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2007 3:34 PM
Subject: Re: [runacc] the CC25 database

Access & Excel

Nora
—– Original Message —–
From: osierhenry@cs.com
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2007 5:40 PM
Subject: Re: [runacc] the CC25 database

In a message dated 4/5/2007 9:23:05 PM Central Daylight Time,
casamai@sbcglobal.net writes:
> Any requests as to how everybody would like that &what info they’d find
> useful from our database?
Nora,
What format do you have in at this point?
Henry

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
Yahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

——————————————————————————

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.26/750 – Release Date: 4/6/2007 9:30 PM

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

As can I.

Kevin

Ricky & Karen Dick wrote:

>
> Primo. I can read both.
>
> –Karen
>
> —– Original Message —–
> From: Bruce & Nora Mai
> To: runacc@yahoogroups.com <mailto:runacc%40yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2007 3:34 PM
> Subject: Re: [runacc] the CC25 database
>
> Access & Excel
>
> Nora
>

(shifting over to RunaCC)

On Apr 10, 2007, at 5:51 PM, Bruce & Nora Mai wrote:
> The theory is, as you’ve eloquently pointed out, we’re all adults
> here and should be responsible about how long a panel has. At the
> very least, moderators should be cognizant of dwindling time.

Frankly, I saw a few adults who should have known better not paying
attention to how long their panels ran, or that they were supposed to
be on a panel in 5 minutes.

Were there moderators? I got nothing telling me who the moderator for
any of my panels were. Granted, they were 2, 3 and 4 people. They
didn’t need much moderation, but I wouldn’t have minded handing the
clock off to someone else.

> I hate to sound like the old fart here, but we’ve not usually had
> time problems at CCs before. Granted, Kevin had a point when there
> was set up time needed for panels like his, and perhaps a
> programming person does need to look in on things. But for the
> most part, panels ran smoothly without many disruptions.

Two of my three panels were impacted by other panels running late and
not being out of the room when we were supposed to start. The one
that didn’t was the first panel of the day for that room. One (which
you were on) moved to the concourse, because there was no way the
panel that was running where we were supposed to be was going to
finish so we could move in.

It’s a matter of perception.

If you tell people, “Panels are an hour” some panelists will take it
as a license to fill the whole hour, without consideration for clean-
up time or the next panel coming in (I’m thinking of a table full of
dolls and doll clothes that had to be bagged and hauled away). If you
tell people “Panels are 50 minutes, with a 10 minute break” you’ve
established a clear instruction of where turnover-time happens, and
that burning the next panel’s time for your clean-up is unacceptable.

andy

Valid criticisms.

Bruce

—– Original Message —–
From: Andrew T Trembley
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2007 8:16 PM
Subject: [runacc] Re: CC classes suggestion

(shifting over to RunaCC)

On Apr 10, 2007, at 5:51 PM, Bruce & Nora Mai wrote:
> The theory is, as you’ve eloquently pointed out, we’re all adults
> here and should be responsible about how long a panel has. At the
> very least, moderators should be cognizant of dwindling time.

Frankly, I saw a few adults who should have known better not paying
attention to how long their panels ran, or that they were supposed to
be on a panel in 5 minutes.

Were there moderators? I got nothing telling me who the moderator for
any of my panels were. Granted, they were 2, 3 and 4 people. They
didn’t need much moderation, but I wouldn’t have minded handing the
clock off to someone else.

> I hate to sound like the old fart here, but we’ve not usually had
> time problems at CCs before. Granted, Kevin had a point when there
> was set up time needed for panels like his, and perhaps a
> programming person does need to look in on things. But for the
> most part, panels ran smoothly without many disruptions.

Two of my three panels were impacted by other panels running late and
not being out of the room when we were supposed to start. The one
that didn’t was the first panel of the day for that room. One (which
you were on) moved to the concourse, because there was no way the
panel that was running where we were supposed to be was going to
finish so we could move in.

It’s a matter of perception.

If you tell people, “Panels are an hour” some panelists will take it
as a license to fill the whole hour, without consideration for clean-
up time or the next panel coming in (I’m thinking of a table full of
dolls and doll clothes that had to be bagged and hauled away). If you
tell people “Panels are 50 minutes, with a 10 minute break” you’ve
established a clear instruction of where turnover-time happens, and
that burning the next panel’s time for your clean-up is unacceptable.

andy

View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
Yahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I’m not completely finished crunching the numbers but I’ve managed to
finalize a stripped out Excel sheet of CC25 members who wanted to
receive future CC mailings. Figured you guys would want this soon so
you could hit ’em up while they’re still excited.

There are 191 records that include name, address, city, state, zip,
country, phone & email. So you can mail merge them easily for a
mailing. Bound to be some people who are already on your mailing lists
but we had a good number of first timers so could be good for you.

I have also left in their age – there are some under 21, your call if
you want to mail them or not.

It’s uploaded to the file section here in Yahoo. If you’d like me to
email it to you personally let me know.

Nora

I promised my committee that I’d write these functions after I got home
from CC25…

You can now view the (dynamically generated) membership directory for
Costume-Con 26 at
<https://www.cc26.info/interactive/view_member_directory.php>

and the geographical distribution of our membership at
<https://www.cc26.info/interactive/view_member_geography.php>

Kevin

(who wanted to paint the latter numbers on a US map but decided it was
way more work than the result was worth, and besides, not everyone’s
coming from the US… and I hold out hope for a few trans-Atlantic members)

If I follow the links from the msg, I get two different 404 errors. If I navigate through from the homepage, they work.

Also, the Geography page lists 238 members, but the Membership page only lists about 156(ish).

Michael

> ——-Original Message——-
> From: Kevin Roche, CC26 Convention Chair <chair@cc26.info>
> Subject: [runacc] Fun with online membership databases…
> Sent: 17 Apr ’07 23:01
>
> I promised my committee that I’d write these functions after I got home
> from CC25…
>
> You can now view the (dynamically generated) membership directory for
> Costume-Con 26 at
> <[LINK: https://www.cc26.info/interactive/view_member_directory.php%5d
> https://www.cc26.info/interactive/view_member_directory.php>
>
> and the geographical distribution of our membership at
> <[LINK: https://www.cc26.info/interactive/view_member_geography.php%5d
> https://www.cc26.info/interactive/view_member_geography.php>
>
> Kevin
>
> (who wanted to paint the latter numbers on a US map but decided it was
> way more work than the result was worth, and besides, not everyone’s
> coming from the US… and I hold out hope for a few trans-Atlantic
> members)
>
>

And I noticed that I’m not listed although I know I have a
membership. So that explains at least one difference in the counts.

Nora

— In runacc@yahoogroups.com, “bruno” <bruno@…> wrote:
>
> If I follow the links from the msg, I get two different 404
errors. If I navigate through from the homepage, they work.
>
> Also, the Geography page lists 238 members, but the Membership
page only lists about 156(ish).
>
>
> Michael
>
>
> > ——-Original Message——-
> > From: Kevin Roche, CC26 Convention Chair <chair@…>
> > Subject: [runacc] Fun with online membership databases…
> > Sent: 17 Apr ’07 23:01
> >
> > I promised my committee that I’d write these functions after I
got home
> > from CC25…
> >
> > You can now view the (dynamically generated) membership
directory for
> > Costume-Con 26 at
> > <[LINK:
https://www.cc26.info/interactive/view_member_directory.php%5d
> > https://www.cc26.info/interactive/view_member_directory.php>
> >
> > and the geographical distribution of our membership at
> > <[LINK:
https://www.cc26.info/interactive/view_member_geography.php%5d
> > https://www.cc26.info/interactive/view_member_geography.php>
> >
> > Kevin
> >
> > (who wanted to paint the latter numbers on a US map but decided
it was
> > way more work than the result was worth, and besides, not
everyone’s
> > coming from the US… and I hold out hope for a few trans-
Atlantic
> > members)
> >
> >
>

On Apr 18, 2007, at 11:38 AM, bruno wrote:

> If I follow the links from the msg, I get two different 404
> errors. If I navigate through from the homepage, they work.
>
> Also, the Geography page lists 238 members, but the Membership page
> only lists about 156(ish).

Membership page only lists people who set “show my name in the member
directory.” People who registered before we had that blank in the
system aren’t shown; we chose to assume “no” rather than assume “yes.”

andy

Hmm… the links work in my email client. I have no idea why you got the
404s… unless you happened to try while I was doing a debug refresh.

The difference in numbers is (mostly) because 78 members have chosen to
not display their names in the directory. I have a few members who, for
some reason, don’t show up in spite of having opted-in to listing until
I re-save their profiles. No changes, just open and re-save.
Mysteeeeerious…

Kevin

bruno wrote:

>
> If I follow the links from the msg, I get two different 404 errors. If
> I navigate through from the homepage, they work.
>
> Also, the Geography page lists 238 members, but the Membership page
> only lists about 156(ish).
>
> Michael
>
>

Ahh! That explains it. Okay, cool. I registered at CC24 so I guess
that was “before”.
Any blanks in our optional questions were assumed to be ‘No’ as well.

Nora
— In runacc@yahoogroups.com, Andrew T Trembley <attrembl@…>
wrote:

>
>
> On Apr 18, 2007, at 11:38 AM, bruno wrote:
>
> > If I follow the links from the msg, I get two different 404
> > errors. If I navigate through from the homepage, they work.
> >
> > Also, the Geography page lists 238 members, but the Membership

page

> > only lists about 156(ish).
>
> Membership page only lists people who set “show my name in the

member

> directory.” People who registered before we had that blank in the
> system aren’t shown; we chose to assume “no” rather than

assume “yes.”

>
> andy
>

I think I registered right after you, though, and I show
up. Odd.

Karen

On Wed, 18 Apr 2007 19:55:01 -0000
“Bruce & Nora Mai” <casamai@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> Ahh! That explains it. Okay, cool. I registered at CC24
>so I guess
> that was “before”.
> Any blanks in our optional questions were assumed to be
>’No’ as well.
>
> Nora
> — In runacc@yahoogroups.com, Andrew T Trembley
><attrembl@…>
> wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Apr 18, 2007, at 11:38 AM, bruno wrote:
>>
>> > If I follow the links from the msg, I get two
>>different 404
>> > errors. If I navigate through from the homepage, they
>>work.
>> >
>> > Also, the Geography page lists 238 members, but the
>>Membership
> page
>> > only lists about 156(ish).
>>
>> Membership page only lists people who set “show my name
>>in the
> member
>> directory.” People who registered before we had that
>>blank in the
>> system aren’t shown; we chose to assume “no” rather than
> assume “yes.”
>>
>> andy
>>
>
>

Well, I’m on there now. Kevin must have made some adjustments (as he said in his other email).

Nora

Karen Heim <axejudge@accessus.net> wrote:
I think I registered right after you, though, and I show
up. Odd.

Karen

On Wed, 18 Apr 2007 19:55:01 -0000
“Bruce & Nora Mai” wrote:

> Ahh! That explains it. Okay, cool. I registered at CC24
>so I guess
> that was “before”.
> Any blanks in our optional questions were assumed to be
>’No’ as well.
>
> Nora
> — In runacc@yahoogroups.com, Andrew T Trembley
>
> wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Apr 18, 2007, at 11:38 AM, bruno wrote:
>>
>> > If I follow the links from the msg, I get two
>>different 404
>> > errors. If I navigate through from the homepage, they
>>work.
>> >
>> > Also, the Geography page lists 238 members, but the
>>Membership
> page
>> > only lists about 156(ish).
>>
>> Membership page only lists people who set “show my name
>>in the
> member
>> directory.” People who registered before we had that
>>blank in the
>> system aren’t shown; we chose to assume “no” rather than
> assume “yes.”
>>
>> andy
>>
>
>

View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
Yahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yo! Grand Master K! I seem to be having the same problem as Nora. Probably
for the same reason.

Henry Osier
Chief Spy
Costume-Con 28 in Milwaukee in 2010
www.CC28.org
For the newest Intell: http://agent-milw.livejournal.com/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yes, yours was one where I did the magic “open and re-save profile” trick.

I’ve modified the syntax of the query in the directory script slightly,
and now I have 161 members listed in the directory, which is what a raw
database query tells me should be showing (238 members less 76 who opted
out and 1 Youth membership without a badge name).

So I think the glitch is now dead. If someone else tells me they aren’t
showing I’ll go back and look again.

Kevin

Bruce & Nora Mai wrote:

>
> Well, I’m on there now. Kevin must have made some adjustments (as he
> said in his other email).
>
> Nora
>
> Karen Heim <axejudge@accessus.net <mailto:axejudge%40accessus.net>> wrote:
> I think I registered right after you, though, and I show
> up. Odd.
>
> Karen
>
> _,_._,___

OK, the back door query shows you as NOT having opted in to listing.
I’ve also ascertained that the glitch appeared to be that when I opened
the form it was always showing “yes” and then saving the profile
properly with that as the new value. You now show up.

Fortunately, all the profiles I opened recently were because people
wanted their names listed 😉
(and the script to load the form is now fixed).

Kevin

osierhenry@cs.com wrote:

>
> Yo! Grand Master K! I seem to be having the same problem as Nora.
> Probably
> for the same reason.
>
>

At 02:36 PM 4/18/2007, you wrote:

Sandy and I certainly have no problem being listed but aren’t there.
Please feel free to add us.

Pierre

>On Apr 18, 2007, at 11:38 AM, bruno wrote:
>
> > If I follow the links from the msg, I get two different 404
> > errors. If I navigate through from the homepage, they work.
> >
> > Also, the Geography page lists 238 members, but the Membership page
> > only lists about 156(ish).
>
>Membership page only lists people who set “show my name in the member
>directory.” People who registered before we had that blank in the
>system aren’t shown; we chose to assume “no” rather than assume “yes.”
>
>andy

“Those Who Fail To Learn History
Are Doomed to Repeat It;
Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly —
Why They Are Simply Doomed.

Achemdro’hm
“The Illusion of Historical Fact”
— C.Y. 4971

Andromeda

I can do it via the admin interface, but in theory you should be able to
log in and do it yourself.

Care to try and see if the process makes sense?

Kevin

Pierre & Sandy Pettinger wrote:

>
> At 02:36 PM 4/18/2007, you wrote:
>
> Sandy and I certainly have no problem being listed but aren’t there.
> Please feel free to add us.
>
> Pierre
>

Has anybody even looked at this? The original intent was to create an ongoing database of people who wanted to hear about future CCs & could be mailed to.
If no one’s going to use it or keep it up – what a waste of time.

Nora

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Nora, we definitely NEED this kind of continuity from one con to the next. (We need it with the FFF mailing list of known designers, too!) I haven’t looked at it yet, but I intend to. Little things like life and work keep interfering.

–Karen

—– Original Message —–
From: Bruce & Nora Mai
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 9:03 AM
Subject: Re: [runacc] Future CCs Mailing list

Has anybody even looked at this? The original intent was to create an ongoing database of people who wanted to hear about future CCs & could be mailed to.
If no one’s going to use it or keep it up – what a waste of time.

Nora

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

——————————————————————————

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.5.4/768 – Release Date: 4/19/2007 5:32 AM

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

—– Original Message —–
From: Bruce & Nora Mai
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 9:03 AM
Subject: Re: [runacc] Future CCs Mailing list

Has anybody even looked at this? The original intent was to create an ongoing database of people who wanted to hear about future CCs & could be mailed to.
If no one’s going to use it or keep it up – what a waste of time.

Nora

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

——————————————————————————

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.5.4/768 – Release Date: 4/19/2007 5:32 AM

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Nora —

We haven’t used it yet, but are going to.
Right now we are in the middle of wrapping up our PR2 and getting ready
for online hotel reservations to open.
When that announcement goes out (our PRs appear on the website as well)
I know we’ll be using it.

Thanks for the noodge. I’ve downloaded a copy so besides using it for a
special announcement/invitation I can use it to send invites to our
online announcement list.

Kevin

Bruce & Nora Mai wrote:

>
> Has anybody even looked at this? The original intent was to create an
> ongoing database of people who wanted to hear about future CCs & could
> be mailed to.
> If no one’s going to use it or keep it up – what a waste of time.
>
> Nora
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

Costume-ConNections news (www.Costume-Con.org):

I am pleased to report that thanks to Carl’s collection of DVDs and
Pierre’s willingness to loan same to me until I could get them to a
computer that could read them, all CCs up to CC24 can be said to have an
image for every costume that crossed a stage in competition with the
exception of CC19, and that will be remedied shortly!

In the coming few weeks, subject to my availability, the whims of my
children and the ease of transition, the whole site will be moving to a
new web server. If you notice any weird things going on, it’s possible
you’ve caught the site in transition, so please be patient. When the
site move has been completed, I’ll let folks know!

(And then imagine Kermit doing his happy dance…)

Also: If you wanted to submit your web site for listing on the Links
page, NOW would be a good time to do it. My next task, while I’m waiting
for the CC19 DVD, is to clean out the links of all cobwebs and clear the
What’s New pages.

Any adjustments to the information listed on the site would be very much
appreciated!

Thanks,

Betsy
—
—
Betsy Delaney

*************************************************************************
See my resume at: http://www.hawkeswood.com/betsywork.shtml
*************************************************************************

Sorry to sound whiny but no one even commented when I posted that it was there.
I’ll also have some interesting demographic stats once I get the registration stuff is completely processed.

Nora

“Kevin Roche, CC26 Convention Chair” <chair@cc26.info> wrote:
Hi Nora —

We haven’t used it yet, but are going to.
Right now we are in the middle of wrapping up our PR2 and getting ready
for online hotel reservations to open.
When that announcement goes out (our PRs appear on the website as well)
I know we’ll be using it.

Thanks for the noodge. I’ve downloaded a copy so besides using it for a
special announcement/invitation I can use it to send invites to our
online announcement list.

Kevin

Bruce & Nora Mai wrote:

>
> Has anybody even looked at this? The original intent was to create an
> ongoing database of people who wanted to hear about future CCs & could
> be mailed to.
> If no one’s going to use it or keep it up – what a waste of time.
>
> Nora
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
Yahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 4/22/2007 4:17:53 PM Central Daylight Time,
casamai@sbcglobal.net writes:

> Sorry to sound whiny but no one even commented when I posted that it was
> there.
> I’ll also have some interesting demographic stats once I get the
> registration stuff is completely processed.
>
> Nora
>
>
>
>
>

Nora,
Sorry, but I haven’t looked at it either. Been busy with other stuff.
But will look at it soon. Promise!
Henry

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Not going into details yet, but what are the legalities of having a no refund or partial refund policy and someone still demands a full refund?

We have a situation where we have this person who will remain unnamed for the moment (but I’m pretty sure we’ll give you a warning about them when this is resolved one way or another) where they are pretty much refusing to accept the polcy. We pretty much have them dead to rights here, but they are currently demanding a 50% refund on their membership and 100% of the person they never provided any registration info on. Oh – either that, or forward the money to the next con for membership.

They say now that since they can’t get satisfaction, they will seek legal council. I don’t think they have any legal standing. They won’t provide documentation of emails they claim we never answered, won’t accept our documentation from Paypal that quite clearly shows that they used an email address that they claim they never use. They’re basicaly trying to bully us into giving them their money. They claim they’ve never heard of a con not refunding money (which is clearly a lie. If they weren’t such an ass, I’d be inclined to just give them their money, but there’s no guarantee they won’t try this stunt again.

Any thoughts?

Bruce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Bruce & Nora Mai wrote:

> Not going into details yet, but what are the legalities of having a no refund or partial refund policy and someone still demands a full refund?
>

There may be variances from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, but bascially,
if there’s a published policy, the policy stands.

You could always go with the preemptive strike of contacting PayPal
filing a complaint with them.

andy

Oh, and they will spend more $$$ getting legal counsel than the two memberships are worth, so that’s just an empty threat.

–Karen

—– Original Message —–
From: Bruce & Nora Mai
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 11:43 PM
Subject: [runacc] Legal question

Not going into details yet, but what are the legalities of having a no refund or partial refund policy and someone still demands a full refund?

We have a situation where we have this person who will remain unnamed for the moment (but I’m pretty sure we’ll give you a warning about them when this is resolved one way or another) where they are pretty much refusing to accept the polcy. We pretty much have them dead to rights here, but they are currently demanding a 50% refund on their membership and 100% of the person they never provided any registration info on. Oh – either that, or forward the money to the next con for membership.

They say now that since they can’t get satisfaction, they will seek legal council. I don’t think they have any legal standing. They won’t provide documentation of emails they claim we never answered, won’t accept our documentation from Paypal that quite clearly shows that they used an email address that they claim they never use. They’re basicaly trying to bully us into giving them their money. They claim they’ve never heard of a con not refunding money (which is clearly a lie. If they weren’t such an ass, I’d be inclined to just give them their money, but there’s no guarantee they won’t try this stunt again.

Any thoughts?

Bruce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.463 / Virus Database: 269.6.1/776 – Release Date: 4/25/2007 12:19 PM

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Most cons will not refund memberships once it’s 30 days out from the con. Most will allow transfers until the con. After that, it’s tough luck. Then, after the con, any no-shows get mailed their registration packets with their badges, con publications, etc. so they have something to show for their membership $$.

Do not let this person bully you. You had a published policy re refunds.

–Karen

—– Original Message —–
From: Bruce & Nora Mai
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 11:43 PM
Subject: [runacc] Legal question

Not going into details yet, but what are the legalities of having a no refund or partial refund policy and someone still demands a full refund?

We have a situation where we have this person who will remain unnamed for the moment (but I’m pretty sure we’ll give you a warning about them when this is resolved one way or another) where they are pretty much refusing to accept the polcy. We pretty much have them dead to rights here, but they are currently demanding a 50% refund on their membership and 100% of the person they never provided any registration info on. Oh – either that, or forward the money to the next con for membership.

They say now that since they can’t get satisfaction, they will seek legal council. I don’t think they have any legal standing. They won’t provide documentation of emails they claim we never answered, won’t accept our documentation from Paypal that quite clearly shows that they used an email address that they claim they never use. They’re basicaly trying to bully us into giving them their money. They claim they’ve never heard of a con not refunding money (which is clearly a lie. If they weren’t such an ass, I’d be inclined to just give them their money, but there’s no guarantee they won’t try this stunt again.

Any thoughts?

Bruce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

——————————————————————————

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.463 / Virus Database: 269.6.1/776 – Release Date: 4/25/2007 12:19 PM

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

What Andy said. *Especially* if you allowed membership transfers.

And thanks for the reminder to get our refund policy posted.

Kevin

Andrew Trembley wrote:

>
> Bruce & Nora Mai wrote:
> > Not going into details yet, but what are the legalities of having a
> no refund or partial refund policy and someone still demands a full
> refund?
> >
>
> There may be variances from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, but bascially,
> if there’s a published policy, the policy stands.
>
> You could always go with the preemptive strike of contacting PayPal
> filing a complaint with them.
>
> andy
>

I think I’m with Andy here. Preemptive strikes help do two things: Deal
with bullies and tip the company off to potential problems with their users.

Unless they can provide proof of payment for the one that “doesn’t
exist” it’s a non-issue. No record of payment means no payment received,
hence no refund. For the other? It’s your call, but there’s only so much
you can do with a published policy. If they were being nice and
apologetic about the problem, I might think twice. Bullies? Not worth
the time. Karen’s right. Hauling out the lawyer card is an empty threat
and your published policy will cost them money in the end. (Which you
could point out to them if you felt so inclined.)

Sorry it was ugly…

-b

Andrew Trembley wrote:

> Bruce & Nora Mai wrote:
>> Not going into details yet, but what are the legalities of having a no refund or partial refund policy and someone still demands a full refund?
>>
>
> There may be variances from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, but bascially,
> if there’s a published policy, the policy stands.
>
> You could always go with the preemptive strike of contacting PayPal
> filing a complaint with them.
>
> andy

—
—
Betsy Delaney

*************************************************************************
See my resume at: http://www.hawkeswood.com/betsywork.shtml
*************************************************************************

Bruce:

I concur with Karen–in addition to SF cons, in my 20+ years of
attending professional conferences and seminars I have routinely seen
the policy that after a certain date there were no refunds. I
understood that if I purchased the membership and then did not ask
for a refund in the allotted time, I was the one out on the price of
admission.

So long as there is a stated policy on refunds, this serves as part
of the “contract” between the buyer and the con that the member accepts.

On a side note, sometimes the fear of attorney fees will be no
obstacle to some people because to them this is a grudge match and
they’re going to prove they are right. But I can’t see any attorney
accepting such a case for the amount charged and the overall size of
the event (ie: no deep pockets).

Yours,

Dave Doering

If they do decide to pursue legal action, it’s definitely a small claims court case (<$5000). Maybe you could suggest they try the People’s Court or Judge Judy.

Michael

> ——-Original Message——-
> From: David Doering <dave@techvoice.com>

>
> On a side note, sometimes the fear of attorney fees will be no
> obstacle to some people because to them this is a grudge match and
> they’re going to prove they are right. But I can’t see any attorney
> accepting such a case for the amount charged and the overall size of
> the event (ie: no deep pockets).

Ages ago, in the days before I knew CC existed, I was involved with a con
that only lived two years in Milwaukee. We had a dealer claim that some of his
merchandise had been stolen. Oddly enough, no other dealer was missing anything,
the complaining dealer knew EXACTLY what was missing and what they were
worth.

We dealt with him by having a friend who had been a lawyer write him a letter
that was very thick and solid with legalese stating, basically, Prove it!

The dealer backed down and went away.

So, you might want to consider having a lawyer friend write the person a
letter making policy really clear.

Henry

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

There are a couple of different questions here. One is legal. What is Missouri’s law on giving notice of the terms of a contract? Was the policy published on the Web site and in documents such as membership applications and progress reports? I’m not an attorney; however, that may be sufficient notice. If the complainant did not read the notice (or claims not to have read it), that’s not the con’s fault. Under those circumstances, if the complainant takes the con to court, he or she could lose. In that case, the con can ask the court to make the losing party pay all costs of the trial.

A different question is what kind of bad publicity could result from the con’s decision. On the one hand, a decision to hang tough could result in the complainant bad-mouthing the con — and potentially other or all cons. That would be undesirable. On the other hand, a decision to refund the money could lead to similar demands by other attendees as well as potentially making it more difficult for other cons to enforce no-refund policies, which could be a problem for concoms that are strapped for funds.

This may be a case of d____d if you do and d____d if you don’t.

Byron

—– Original Message —–
From: Bruce & Nora Mai<mailto:casamai@sbcglobal.net>
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com<mailto:runacc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 11:43 PM
Subject: [runacc] Legal question

Not going into details yet, but what are the legalities of having a no refund or partial refund policy and someone still demands a full refund?

We have a situation where we have this person who will remain unnamed for the moment (but I’m pretty sure we’ll give you a warning about them when this is resolved one way or another) where they are pretty much refusing to accept the polcy. We pretty much have them dead to rights here, but they are currently demanding a 50% refund on their membership and 100% of the person they never provided any registration info on. Oh – either that, or forward the money to the next con for membership.

They say now that since they can’t get satisfaction, they will seek legal council. I don’t think they have any legal standing. They won’t provide documentation of emails they claim we never answered, won’t accept our documentation from Paypal that quite clearly shows that they used an email address that they claim they never use. They’re basicaly trying to bully us into giving them their money. They claim they’ve never heard of a con not refunding money (which is clearly a lie. If they weren’t such an ass, I’d be inclined to just give them their money, but there’s no guarantee they won’t try this stunt again.

Any thoughts?

Bruce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

At 10:43 PM 4/25/2007, you wrote:

>Not going into details yet, but what are the legalities of having a
>no refund or partial refund policy and someone still demands a full refund?
>
>We have a situation where we have this person who will remain
>unnamed for the moment (but I’m pretty sure we’ll give you a warning
>about them when this is resolved one way or another) where they are
>pretty much refusing to accept the polcy. We pretty much have them
>dead to rights here, but they are currently demanding a 50% refund
>on their membership and 100% of the person they never provided any
>registration info on. Oh – either that, or forward the money to the
>next con for membership.
>
>They say now that since they can’t get satisfaction, they will seek
>legal council. I don’t think they have any legal standing. They
>won’t provide documentation of emails they claim we never answered,
>won’t accept our documentation from Paypal that quite clearly shows
>that they used an email address that they claim they never
>use. They’re basicaly trying to bully us into giving them their
>money. They claim they’ve never heard of a con not refunding money
>(which is clearly a lie. If they weren’t such an ass, I’d be
>inclined to just give them their money, but there’s no guarantee
>they won’t try this stunt again.
>
>Any thoughts?
>
>Bruce

I don’t believe any convention is required to refund any membership.
If you buy a ticket to a theatrical production (say to Broadway) and
can’t attend I don’t believe you will get a refund. If you buy
something in a store they are not under any legal obligation to
refund your money regardless of the situation. Most will, but they
don’t have to.

I believe most conventions do not refund memberships.

Pierre

“Those Who Fail To Learn History
Are Doomed to Repeat It;
Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly —
Why They Are Simply Doomed.

Achemdro’hm
“The Illusion of Historical Fact”
— C.Y. 4971

Andromeda

I may not see that answer in the same way, since I know a dealer that was at
a convention, and had something stolen, and knew exactly what the item was
worth, and may have been the only dealer that was missing something there.

I think the convention may have given her some compensation.

We had a belly dance show here, and only one vendor reported large losses
(silver jewelry). The show director virtually accused her of lying, and
there was very nearly a lawsuit resultant in the process. I also knew this
vendor (they were regulars at CONduit), and know they did not lie about this
theft. It was quite a nasty arguement, and I felt like it was not handled
very well.

There is something about the original question that reminds me a lot about a
situation described in a recent Haunted House publication. (HauntWorld #15).
Unfortunately, I can’t quite figure out how it helps you specific case…

(The article is called “The psychology of your customers….”) The
situation was where a character-actor accidently bumped into a young lady,
who then comments/complains about being/feeling sexually harassed. (no,
this issue is not about sexual-harrassment, keep reading) The
character-actor follows the written guidelines of the house, and steps
aside, saying “enjoy the rest of the show”. The actor reports the incident,
(thinking it would now be ok). Nope — 6 parents (of the three girls) show
up. Now here’s the psychology commentary…The author points out that that
these folks essentially have a chip on their shoulders, and that his house
just happens to be a convient target. Essentially these folks come from a
social-economic stratum that is fairly “POWERLESS”, hence they over-react to
any percieved wrong.

(He explained a reasonable response (it was an accident, his actor had no
complaint in five years, etc). — All that didn’t matter.) So his approach
was, rather the fight them, or present a more powerful opposition (my lawyer
is bigger than your lawyer), was to let them percieve some empowerment
(without actually giving up very much — they wanted the actors’s name, etc,
which they didn’t get). So he called in his head of security, asked if
the girls had been given a refund, insisted that one be given, and sort of
chewed out security for not having done so already (more just an “act”).
Then gave them the info they might need to write a letter of complaint.
(which they’d probably never write, but it did help them feel more
empowered…)

Yes, he did “buy-off” these annoying folks. But for him, it was cheaper, in
the long run.
———————————–

So it was my impression that you might be dealing with someone of this
annoying nature, and simply either “huffing”, or ignoring them would
increase their sense of injury (“powerlessness”).

But I still can’t quite suggest a good alternative.

Charles Galway

—–Original Message—–
From: runacc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:runacc@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
osierhenry@cs.com
Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 5:11 PM
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [runacc] Legal question

Ages ago, in the days before I knew CC existed, I was involved with a con
that only lived two years in Milwaukee. We had a dealer claim that some of
his
merchandise had been stolen. Oddly enough, no other dealer was missing
anything,
the complaining dealer knew EXACTLY what was missing and what they were
worth.

We dealt with him by having a friend who had been a lawyer write him a
letter
that was very thick and solid with legalese stating, basically, Prove it!

The dealer backed down and went away.

So, you might want to consider having a lawyer friend write the person a
letter making policy really clear.

Henry

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Technorati may be craptacular, but it does provide blog search. I
just wish it did a better job of keeping up with things; I’ve had bad
history with them claiming a blog hasn’t been updated in dozens if
not hundreds of days even though it has.

anyway:
http://technorati.com/search/costume-con?language=en&authority=n
http://technorati.com/search/cc25?language=en&authority=n
http://technorati.com/search/cc26?language=en&authority=n

There’s also Google Blog Search, but it’s even less comprehensive.
http://blogsearch.google.com/blogsearch?hl=en&q=costume-
con&btnG=Search+Blogs
http://blogsearch.google.com/blogsearch?hl=en&q=cc25&btnG=Search+Blogs
http://blogsearch.google.com/blogsearch?hl=en&q=cc26&btnG=Search+Blogs

and if you’ve got a google account, you can set up an email alert
when new index entries appear…
http://www.google.com/alerts?t=8&hl=en&q=costume-con

andy

Yeah, I think it’s something that didn’t even cross our minds, last time. This is part of a trend we’ve noticed. Pierre’s gonna have a word with him, and if he still persists, we may follow some of the notions posted here.

We were not really concerned about legal actions, and everyone’s posts here pretty much reaffirm our position.

By the way, we’ve mostly accumulated our notes, so the big Brain Dump will begin soon.

Bruce

—– Original Message —–
From: Kevin Roche, CC26 Convention Chair
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 12:20 AM
Subject: Re: [runacc] Legal question

What Andy said. *Especially* if you allowed membership transfers.

And thanks for the reminder to get our refund policy posted.

Kevin

Andrew Trembley wrote:
>
> Bruce & Nora Mai wrote:
> > Not going into details yet, but what are the legalities of having a
> no refund or partial refund policy and someone still demands a full
> refund?
> >
>
> There may be variances from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, but bascially,
> if there’s a published policy, the policy stands.
>
> You could always go with the preemptive strike of contacting PayPal
> filing a complaint with them.
>
> andy
>

View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
Yahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Heh. Like that one. 🙂

Bruce

—– Original Message —–
From: bruno
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 1:20 PM
Subject: Re: [runacc] Legal question

If they do decide to pursue legal action, it’s definitely a small claims court case (<$5000). Maybe you could suggest they try the People’s Court or Judge Judy.

Michael

> ——-Original Message——-
> From: David Doering <dave@techvoice.com>

>
> On a side note, sometimes the fear of attorney fees will be no
> obstacle to some people because to them this is a grudge match and
> they’re going to prove they are right. But I can’t see any attorney
> accepting such a case for the amount charged and the overall size of
> the event (ie: no deep pockets).

View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
Yahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Nora —

Thanks for building the spreadsheet; today I used it to send invitations
to our CC26 announcements list.

I also took the time to run through our registration survey results and
send a new round of invitations out to the both the announcements and
chat lists.

Kevin

And we received the invitation toady. cool.

Nora

—– Original Message —–
From: Kevin Roche, CC26 Convention Chair
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Cc: CC26_Marcom@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 5:15 PM
Subject: [runacc] Invitations sent to the CC26 mailing lists… thanks to CC25!

Nora —

Thanks for building the spreadsheet; today I used it to send invitations
to our CC26 announcements list.

I also took the time to run through our registration survey results and
send a new round of invitations out to the both the announcements and
chat lists.

Kevin

View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
Yahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Note from a friend of mine…

Begin forwarded message:

> From: “Sarah Shefferly” <skshefferly@gmail.com>
> Date: May 11, 2007 5:30:45 AM PDT
> To: attrembl@bovil.com
> Subject: “Piecework” article
>
> Hey Andy!
>
> There’s a great article in the May/June issue of “Piecework” about
> costuming/persona creating organizations such as the SCA and
> Costumecon. It even has a list of places on the internet for people
> to get more information. Costumecon is on this list, so you may get
> some interested folks checking you out. Thought you’d like to know.
>
> The author of the article is Pamela Toler. Maybe you know her. She
> seems at least to have done her research, if not to have actually
> spent some time with people who do costuming.
>
> Sarah

Nice little article. I haven’t picked up Piecework in a few years (although I’ve always liked it) but made sure to get this one.

Nora

—– Original Message —–
From: Andrew T Trembley
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, May 11, 2007 2:49 PM
Subject: [runacc] Fwd: “Piecework” article

Note from a friend of mine…

Begin forwarded message:

> From: “Sarah Shefferly” <skshefferly@gmail.com>
> Date: May 11, 2007 5:30:45 AM PDT
> To: attrembl@bovil.com
> Subject: “Piecework” article
>
> Hey Andy!
>
> There’s a great article in the May/June issue of “Piecework” about
> costuming/persona creating organizations such as the SCA and
> Costumecon. It even has a list of places on the internet for people
> to get more information. Costumecon is on this list, so you may get
> some interested folks checking you out. Thought you’d like to know.
>
> The author of the article is Pamela Toler. Maybe you know her. She
> seems at least to have done her research, if not to have actually
> spent some time with people who do costuming.
>
> Sarah

View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
Yahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

After a bit of a break (and Nora and I both fighting colds), I’m gonna try to get started on the promised “Brain Dump” I’ve mentioned in the past, adding a few quotes from the Staff. Of course, many of you were on the staff, so some of this won’t be news. But this’ll be for the edification of people who may not have known some of what went on beyond their own departments, and anybody who might read through the list archives at some later date.

Most of you on the list here have worked more than one CC, so much of this will be very familiar. Other stuff, I think you’ll find interesting just from an informational standpoint.

So – Hotel stuff: First of all, most of you already know that checking in to the Hotel on a Wednesday is a good idea for staffers – I recommend taking advantage of the hotel hot tub or pool. You might not get another chance until after the con – if then.

We were very pleased with our hotel venue – we still think booking in the suburbs is a better choice than in the city. Our location was great because it had a lot of businesses nearby for just about everything a convention member might need – food, tools, toys, books, fabric, etc. Granted, not every host city is going to have all these places so close by, but the chances are better in the suburbs than downtown. We really lucked out with the concourse layout that we had, putting all the function space in one place. Some of our staff rooms were located directly behind the function rooms, which made finding staff and getting to Ops much easier. Once again, we have to thank Marty for the great contract model he sent us. Not everything applied to our situation, but it certainly showed the hotel staff we were coming in knowing what we wanted. We struck out a few passages, but I’d say we used 80 – 85% verbatim. Overall, we found the hotel and its staff very co-operative and helpful. We had less than a handful of complaints, and those were dealt with in a timely fashion.

Bruce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]