Ah. John’s a good choice. I was very imipressed with his knowledge when I
first saw him at a panel at Chicon in 1991(?)

Bruce

—– Original Message —–
From: “Andrew T Trembley” <attrembl@bovil.com>
To: <runacc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 8:19 PM
Subject: Re: [runacc] Costuming GOHs

> On Apr 28, 2004, at 5:25 PM, Ricky & Karen Dick wrote:
> > I was Fan GOH of WesterCon in 1989 based mainly on my costuming. Does
> > that
> > mean they should count? (Andy probably has a better grasp of how
> > costumer-friendly the con is now.)
>
> WesterCon, like WorldCon, depends entirely upon the committee putting
> it on. There is the strong traditional support for Masquerade, but some
> years that might be it. This year the head of programming just happens
> to be the president of SWCG and the FanGOH is John Hertz, so it’s going
> to be a very costume-friendly con.
>
> As for the Fan GOH question… regardless of the membership, any
> convention that picks costumers as FanGOHs regularly is worth
> cultivating a relationship with.
>
> —
> andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen
> http://www.irlm.org/ – mailto:webmaster@irlm.org
> “Anybody who takes this seriously deserves to”
> — Donna Barr
>
>
>
>
> View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

I would assume so. The key is finding out if they’re still bringing in
costuming-type GOHs.

Bruce

—– Original Message —–
From: “Ricky & Karen Dick” <castleb@pulsenet.com>
To: <runacc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 7:25 PM
Subject: Re: [runacc] Costuming GOHs

> Arisia and Lunacon do, but it varies from year to year, depending on who’s
> on the committee and pushing for it.
>
> Ditto Balticon.
>
> I was Fan GOH of WesterCon in 1989 based mainly on my costuming. Does that
> mean they should count? (Andy probably has a better grasp of how
> costumer-friendly the con is now.)
>
> –Karen
>
> At 06:07 PM 4/28/2004 -0500, you wrote:
> >That one we knew. What other cons (in any state) regularly have Costuming
> >GOHs? Our regional, Archon, has for several years now. What others?
> >
> >Nora
> >—– Original Message —–
> >From: “Andrew T Trembley” <attrembl@bovil.com>
> > > Julie Zetterberg is Costume GOH at MarCon (Memorial Day Weekend) this
> > > year. She’s going to be taking some of our fliers and award ribbons
> > > with her.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

On Apr 29, 2004, at 6:05 PM, Bruce & Nora Mai wrote:

> I think that Andy’s probably right about the whole FGOH vx. CGOH
> thing. So
> the question becomes, outside of having a friendly commmittee, how do
> we
> get more cons to recognize the value of a costuming guest?

Fan GoH selection is perhaps the most mystical of committee processes.
Damned if I know how it really works.

In the really old days (and I’m going on hearsay here) it was often
based on a desire to bring in some big name fanzine writer/publisher
from outside the area, ‘cuz cons were a way for fanzine fans to get
together.

These days, it seems to be more about one’s service to the convention,
the regional community or fandom as a whole. Some conventions
(WorldCon, particularly) have arcane traditions surrounding
eligibility. Some conventions pick their Fan GoH by random drawing.
Some conventions are only concerned about a candidate’s SMOF resume.

So to answer the original question: “Ask committee members (more than
one, ideally) how the con selects a Fan GoH, and what criteria are
important.”

If you can get a straight answer on this (and I’m not going to
guarantee that’s going to happen, some committees don’t want people to
know how they make these decisions) you may be able to suggest
candidates that are to their liking.

—
andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen – http://www.bovil.com/
San Jose, CA – ’72 R75/5 ’86 R100 (mine) – ’92 K75sa ’03 R1150R
(Kevin’s)
…remaining .sig trimmed for better message/.sig ratio

Hammer away,
we’ve never heard anything but good news about Archon.

As soon as it’s not in the Halloween season, we’ll be there 🙂

Ricky

Halloween season definition, Sept15th to November 15th
sept 15th to oct fist weekend, finish building and going gray.
first weekend till Nov 1 open and perform,
Nov 2nd till Nov 15th, drink, sleep, lather rinse repeat.

Betsy said:
I heard a hot rumor (unsubstantiated) that the Hunt Valley will be
taking Balticon back in the near future. If that’s the case, we may
start attending on a regular basis again.

The move downtown was a significant factor in Byron & me deciding to drop
Balticon from our con list. It’s a longish drive for us anyway, now that
we’re not as young as we were, and we typically used to get to Maryland at
around rush hour, so the move added at least an hour to the drive. We also
have no great desire to stay at the Omni – we never have stayed there, but
the feedback we have heard from others is discouraging, to say the least.
On the other hand, we really liked the Hunt Valley venue, and a move back
there might lure us, especially if the author GOH is interesting (who says
costumers don’t read?).

Tina

In a message dated 4/29/2004 8:37:30 PM Central Daylight Time,
casamai@sbcglobal.net writes:

> but you ain’t been to Archon yet….

Ditto!
The Archon crew was also the crew at the last ChiCon.

And what is dumbfounding to me is that Archon is about the same size as
WindyCon in Chicago, and the attitudes towards the masquerade from one to the other
is light day to night. The Archon Masquerade rocks! Whereas WindyCon . . .

Henry

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

These are all very logical ideas, which I think we should work to implement.
I know that we already carry multiple fliers to every con we attend, and
fliers covering multiple cons is an even better use of our luggage space.

Elaine

>
>Still on the theme of PR:
>I’ve got the germ of an idea that I’d like to put out here and get some
>help
>refining.
>Since all CCs are aiming at the same general market, no matter what the
>geographic area, shouldn’t we at least have all of our flyers at the same
>cons? Particularly the hot-bed, costuming friendly/intensive ones? Couldn’t
>a shared mass-marketing scheme be devised to promote all CCs
>
>PR can be expensive. By sharing PR efforts we can generate more extensive
>interest while reducing overall costs by pooling our resources and efforts.
>Here’s some thoughts:
>1. If one CC is sending flyers to a Con, include flyers from all the
>others;
>maybe bids as well.
>2. Collective flyers for smaller cons? Something like “Interested in
>Costuming? Upcoming CCs are…”
>3. Collective ads; similar content to #2 above. Program ads can be
>expensive.
>
>In other words, instead of marketing as individual cons, start using each
>other’s sources and promote Costume-Con as a recurring event. Obviously
>each
>group would devote more of their resources to their own effort but why not
>piggyback? Share the work and the cost, and possibly produce wider
>benefits.
>Nora
>

_________________________________________________________________
Check out the coupons and bargains on MSN Offers! http://youroffers.msn.com

We have begun targeting period dance groups. Also, don’t forget living
history groups and college/high school drama groups.

Elaine

>> > Now, what further steps can we take to attract costumers from venues
>>other
> > than SF cons?
>

_________________________________________________________________
Check out the coupons and bargains on MSN Offers! http://youroffers.msn.com

Betsy,

PLEASE don’t refer to costumers as “non-readers!” I think Bob Silverberg
learned that lesson the hard way!!

Elaine

Blessed are we who can laugh at ourselves, for we shall always be amused.

>I think that you’re right – the perception is frequently that costumers
>aren’t “real” fen, because they devote their free time to something
>other than reading.

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Toolbar provides one-click access to Hotmail from any Web page � FREE
download! http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/

This cross marketing is something Karen and I were talking about with a
few on this list at CC-22.

We will asap be starting to brand the CC name in general. CC as an umbrella
org type thing will have it’s own logo, images etc ( That each con com can
use or not use as they see fit as part of the licensing)

Our goal is to increase awareness of the con as an entity regardless of
location, but to send people to the website, which then also directs them
to each individual convention.

Ricky

At 10:04 AM 5/3/2004 -0400, you wrote:

>These are all very logical ideas, which I think we should work to implement.
> I know that we already carry multiple fliers to every con we attend, and
>fliers covering multiple cons is an even better use of our luggage space.
>
>Elaine
>
> >
> >Still on the theme of PR:
> >I’ve got the germ of an idea that I’d like to put out here and get some
> >help
> >refining.
> >Since all CCs are aiming at the same general market, no matter what the
> >geographic area, shouldn’t we at least have all of our flyers at the same
> >cons? Particularly the hot-bed, costuming friendly/intensive ones? Couldn’t
> >a shared mass-marketing scheme be devised to promote all CCs
> >
> >PR can be expensive. By sharing PR efforts we can generate more extensive
> >interest while reducing overall costs by pooling our resources and efforts.
> >Here’s some thoughts:
> >1. If one CC is sending flyers to a Con, include flyers from all the
> >others;
> >maybe bids as well.
> >2. Collective flyers for smaller cons? Something like “Interested in
> >Costuming? Upcoming CCs are…”
> >3. Collective ads; similar content to #2 above. Program ads can be
> >expensive.
> >
> >In other words, instead of marketing as individual cons, start using each
> >other’s sources and promote Costume-Con as a recurring event. Obviously
> >each
> >group would devote more of their resources to their own effort but why not
> >piggyback? Share the work and the cost, and possibly produce wider
> >benefits.
> >Nora
> >
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Check out the coupons and bargains on MSN Offers! http://youroffers.msn.com
>
>
>
>
>View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Sorry – that isn’t *my* attitude. Check my library sometime for reasons
why *I* don’t think this applies.

You’re preaching to the choir here.

-b

Elaine Mami wrote:

> Betsy,
>
> PLEASE don’t refer to costumers as “non-readers!” I think Bob Silverberg
> learned that lesson the hard way!!
>
> Elaine
>
> Blessed are we who can laugh at ourselves, for we shall always be amused.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>I think that you’re right – the perception is frequently that costumers
>>aren’t “real” fen, because they devote their free time to something
>>other than reading.
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN Toolbar provides one-click access to Hotmail from any Web page – FREE
> download! http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/
>
>
>
>
> View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

—
—
Betsy R. Delaney
Web Mistress at large

************************************************************************
http://www.WebInvent.com/ * http://www.hawkeswood.com/
http://www.Costume-Con.org/ * http://www.sickpups.org/
http://www.SchoolWithoutWalls.org/
************************************************************************

This will, of course, help to establish the “National Organization”
whose contract we are submitting to hotels. 😉

^M^

Ricky & Karen Dick wrote:

>This cross marketing is something Karen and I were talking about with a
>few on this list at CC-22.
>
>We will asap be starting to brand the CC name in general. CC as an umbrella
>org type thing will have it’s own logo, images etc ( That each con com can
>use or not use as they see fit as part of the licensing)
>
>Our goal is to increase awareness of the con as an entity regardless of
>location, but to send people to the website, which then also directs them
>to each individual convention.
>
>Ricky
>
>
>
>
>At 10:04 AM 5/3/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>
>
>>These are all very logical ideas, which I think we should work to implement.
>> I know that we already carry multiple fliers to every con we attend, and
>>fliers covering multiple cons is an even better use of our luggage space.
>>
>>Elaine
>>
>>
>>
>>>Still on the theme of PR:
>>>I’ve got the germ of an idea that I’d like to put out here and get some
>>>help
>>>refining.
>>>Since all CCs are aiming at the same general market, no matter what the
>>>geographic area, shouldn’t we at least have all of our flyers at the same
>>>cons? Particularly the hot-bed, costuming friendly/intensive ones? Couldn’t
>>>a shared mass-marketing scheme be devised to promote all CCs
>>>
>>>PR can be expensive. By sharing PR efforts we can generate more extensive
>>>interest while reducing overall costs by pooling our resources and efforts.
>>>Here’s some thoughts:
>>>1. If one CC is sending flyers to a Con, include flyers from all the
>>>others;
>>>maybe bids as well.
>>>2. Collective flyers for smaller cons? Something like “Interested in
>>>Costuming? Upcoming CCs are…”
>>>3. Collective ads; similar content to #2 above. Program ads can be
>>>expensive.
>>>
>>>In other words, instead of marketing as individual cons, start using each
>>>other’s sources and promote Costume-Con as a recurring event. Obviously
>>>each
>>>group would devote more of their resources to their own effort but why not
>>>piggyback? Share the work and the cost, and possibly produce wider
>>>benefits.
>>>Nora
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>_________________________________________________________________
>>Check out the coupons and bargains on MSN Offers! http://youroffers.msn.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
>>Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Apr 28, 2004, at 5:01 AM, Bruce & Nora Mai wrote:

> In other words, instead of marketing as individual cons, start using
> each
> other’s sources and promote Costume-Con as a recurring event.

I’ve uploaded my CC26 flyer updates.
http://www.cc26.info/Posters/CC26.Fliers.pdf
(warning… adding the 4-up layouts kicked it to 3.5mb, so it’s going
to take a bit to download)

There are a few color changes (black-outlined gray text in the headline
for better contrast when printed in b/w).

There are several fliers that focus on the history and continuity of
Costume-Con, and all fliers emphasize this is Costume-Con ###26###
we’re bidding for. We usually bring copies of one focused and one
general flier to a convention, and carry a pocketful of the
quarter-pages to give out when we give out ribbons.

Last page is the cover-letter for our hotel/organization resume.

—
andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen – http://www.bovil.com/
San Jose, CA – ’72 R75/5 ’86 R100 (mine) – ’92 K75sa ’03 R1150R
(Kevin’s)
“It’s not pink, it’s peach-colored. Pink is tacky.”
–Manfred Pfirsich Marie Rommel

2nd most important safety device on my bike: the one beneath my right
hand
Most important safety device on my bike: the one inside my helmet

Hi, folks!

You may get this message more than once – I’ll try not to spam too many
times, but I’m trying to get the word out.

This is our first official announcement: We’re moving!

On May 17, 2004 we settle on our new house. Please revise your pointers
as follows:

Dan, Betsy, Erin and Katie Delaney
Hawkeswood House
13213 D’Angelo Drive
Bowie, MD 20720-4727
301-464-1511 (h)
301-922-1865 (w- Betsy)
703-428-4795 (w- Dan)

Our PO Box address will also change soon, but I don’t have the info yet.

The majority of our stuff moves in on 5/21 (courtesy of Beltway Movers).

Anyone with time to spare for un/packing assistance will be received
gratefully. We shouldn’t need moving help this time. We think…

Thanks!

Betsy
—
—
Betsy R. Delaney
Web Mistress at large

************************************************************************
http://www.WebInvent.com/ * http://www.hawkeswood.com/
http://www.Costume-Con.org/ * http://www.sickpups.org/
http://www.SchoolWithoutWalls.org/
************************************************************************

I’m scrambling now, after I receive this today. I’m still hoping we can
work something out:

Dear Mr. Mai:

Thank you for your interest in securing space for “Costume Con 25” at the
Holiday Inn Southwest & Viking Conference Center in March of 2007. We all
certainly appreciate the opportunity to do so.

After our initial meetings, we determined that the Holiday Inn Southwest
would be able to accommodate your group based on number of guest rooms
required and the amount of meeting space needed. After reviewing the sample
contract, we have determined that we will not be able to accommodate
“Costume Con 25”. There were several contract issues that the Holiday Inn
Southwest cannot fulfill, such as 24 hour restaurant/room service, amount of
power required in the main ballroom, party and non-party floors, dress code
for Sunday Brunch, 24 hour maintenance personnel on site, ability to control
the price and stocking of Coca Cola’s soda machines, congregating in
corridors, plus a few other minor points. The “ConSuite” would not be
available for Sunday due to the Sunday Brunch Buffet that needs to be set in
that room.

Again, all of us here at the Holiday Inn Southwest appreciate the
opportunity. I would certainly assist in helping you locate another
facility in St. Louis if you would like. If you have any questions, please
do not hesitate to contact me or my General Manager, Bill Banmiller at
314-821-6600.

On May 11, 2004, at 4:51 PM, Bruce & Nora Mai wrote:

> There were several contract issues that the Holiday Inn
> Southwest cannot fulfill, such as 24 hour restaurant/room service

Negotiable. Late restaurant hours and room service may be sufficient.

> amount of power required in the main ballroom

Probably not negotiable, but review with your tech crew; they may offer
a revision. On the other hand, we saw what a blown circuit breaker did
at ChiCon 2k.

> party and non-party floors

Probably negotiable; CC doesn’t usually have room parties outside the
ConSuite, but physical blocking of convention members would be very
valuable anyway.

> dress code for Sunday Brunch

Bullshit. Negotiable, though, if regular restaurant service is
available at full staffing levels too.

> 24 hour maintenance personnel on site

Negotiable, but only so far. Electrician on site while tech is set up
and during the shows is necessary. 24 hour maintenance on call with a
30 minute response time, including a backup electrician in case the
on-site electrician has a heart attack. Penalties for late response.
Kevin can tell you about hotwiring the Santa Clara Marriott at CC12
because one of their electricians was in the hospital and the other was
out of town.

> ability to control the price and stocking of Coca Cola’s soda machines

Negotiable. Price isn’t probably within your reach, but stocking could
be. Ask them to take the stocking request to their Coca Cola
distributor to sign off on.

> congregating in corridors, plus a few other minor points.

Not negotiable; include when talking about the physical blocking
request.

> The “ConSuite” would not be available for Sunday due to the Sunday
> Brunch Buffet that needs to be set in that room.

Not negotiable, assuming there isn’t a different suitable room
available. Are they only considering ballroom space? Is there a
boardroom or suite that would work?

You’ve still got talking points, so it could still be a go. Power,
consuite, and physical blocking could all be deal-killers, though.

—
andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen
http://www.irlm.org/ – mailto:webmaster@irlm.org
“Anybody who takes this seriously deserves to”
— Donna Barr

Dear Bruce –
Obviously some of their concerns could have been negotiated away e.g.
the 24 hour restaurant/room service or the coke machines, but isn’t it
good to know that they couldn’t give you the power you need, or the con
suite, or the ability to “gather”, now instead of at the con? I’m sorry
that your first choice of hotels didn’t work out, but you have shown why
something like the draft contract is so important for conventions such
as Costume Con..

Marty

Bruce & Nora Mai wrote:

>I’m scrambling now, after I receive this today. I’m still hoping we can
>work something out:
>

At 06:51 PM 5/11/2004 -0500, you wrote:

>I’m scrambling now, after I receive this today. I’m still hoping we can
>work something out.

Bruce, are there any other suitable hotels in the area? Sounds like you
need a backup plan.

–Karen

>Bruce:

Andy wrote: “Power, consuite, and physical blocking could all be
deal-killers, though.”

I agree. Painful as it is to consider right now, it is better to find out
about what the hotel really has to offer before you get too far down the road.

How well you can do the masquerades, having a con suite on Sunday, and such
are all things that your members are going to remember a long time. If they
go wrong, you get the blame. Things like coke machines not working are seen
as the hotel’s problem and less the fault of the con.

Dave Doering

In a message dated 5/11/2004 6:50:51 PM Central Daylight Time,
casamai@sbcglobal.net writes:

> I’m scrambling now, after I receive this today. I’m still hoping we can
> work something out:

Bruce,
That’s falls into my “Oh cr-p” category. The first hotel we had lined
up for CC21 told us that they couldn’t hold the ballrooms for more than a day,
plus the airport limo was $25 or so, one way, if it was there!
Good luck!
Henry

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I was looking at Noreascon’s membership installment plan, which they
say has proven popular (no surprise with memberships running $180.00
right now).

Although our <$100 memberships aren’t as large as WorldCon’s, what is
everyone’s opinion on offering a CC installment plan? Would this
attract more memberships?

Or is it just another hassle?

Dave Doering

I believe we are back on track now — at least until we can acutally sit
down with the Sales Manager and see if we can work out an arrangement, but a
backup plan is in order….

Bruce

In a message dated 5/17/2004 9:06:27 PM Central Daylight Time,
dave@techvoice.com writes:

> what is
> everyone’s opinion on offering a CC installment plan?

Dave,
I think we were asked if we, meaning CC21, would do that. We said
sure. We didn’t advertise it, but if someone asked, we would. We thought money is
money. There are some people, like myself, who get lucky and manage to scrape
the money together to go to CC.
One other thing that we considered was enabling membership payment via
PayPal. I can’t remember why we didn’t do it, but we didn’t.
Henry

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 5/17/2004 9:59:50 PM Central Daylight Time,
casamai@sbcglobal.net writes:

> I believe we are back on track now

Bruce,
Yippee for your CC!
Henry

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

At 08:59 PM 5/17/2004, you wrote:

>I was looking at Noreascon’s membership installment plan, which they
>say has proven popular (no surprise with memberships running $180.00
>right now).
>
>Although our <$100 memberships aren’t as large as WorldCon’s, what is
>everyone’s opinion on offering a CC installment plan? Would this
>attract more memberships?
>
>Or is it just another hassle?

I don’t know that we really need to worry about this unless you’re getting
requests or rumors that people can’t afford the rate at one time. If we
start getting over $100 per membership, it might be in order. Otherwise I
think it is a hassle. (and we’re fans of the concept for Worldcon though we
don’t use it ourselves. )

P&S

>Dave Doering

“Those Who Fail To Learn History
Are Doomed to Repeat It;
Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly —
Why They Are Simply Doomed.

Achemdro’hm
“The Illusion of Historical Fact”
— C.Y. 4971

Andromeda

I’ve uploaded a file to the files portion for this group. Please check it
out. It is a starting point only, but a suggestion as to how we might
feasibly generate a multi-convention flyer for CCs.
Pierre has pointed out to us that there are a large number of conventions
upcoming for the Memorial Day weekend that he feels we might want to send
flyers to. But at 3 years out we find it hard to justify the cost of sending
flyers to all of them for the next three years (as well as all the other
cons throughout the year) even if we only sent 20 – 25 per con.
A group flyer would benefit all planned CCs and planned bids as well as
supply general info to a larger audience.
Thoughts?

Nora

Hi, folks!

We’re almost done with the move (and an ugly one it has been, too!).

In the process, I’ve determined that my “betsy” account has got to go
away. I’m being spammed to death.

If you want our new snail contact info, send me email. You can reach
me at brdelaney at hawkeswood, instead of betsy. Repeat the address as a
real email address in email at your peril! Really. I used to include my
address in my .sig. No more. Note that the r isn’t a typo. If you want
me to really see your email fast, use the r.

And watch this space for an announcement of the next ICG Newsletter
collating party, coming soon to a mailing list (and a new house in Bowie
MD) near you!

See some of you at Balticon on Saturday (though I have *no* idea what
I’m going to wear!)

Cheers,

Betsy
—
—
Betsy R. Delaney
Web Mistress at large

************************************************************************
http://www.WebInvent.com/ * http://www.hawkeswood.com/
http://www.Costume-Con.org/ * http://www.sickpups.org/
http://www.SchoolWithoutWalls.org/
************************************************************************

—
—
Betsy R. Delaney
Web Mistress at large

************************************************************************
http://www.WebInvent.com/ * http://www.hawkeswood.com/
http://www.Costume-Con.org/ * http://www.sickpups.org/
http://www.SchoolWithoutWalls.org/
************************************************************************

(sent to CC23-staff, but forwarded here for obvious reasons)

On Jun 7, 2004, at 4:01 PM, David Doering wrote:
> 2. Since Costume Con is ostensibly for _all_ costumers, offering an
> exclusive to the ICG would appear biased against other, just as worthy,
> costuming groups.

Let’s see if I can comment on this in a clear fashion, and in a much
more generic sense…

Member discounts are usually offered when the conference is being put
on by a sponsoring club.

Large national conferences and regional conferences where there aren’t
other organizations putting on complimentary or competing conferences
in the same area often offer discounted fees to their members, and only
their members.

In this case, there are two reasons for offering the discounts. The
first, marketing the conference to club members, is usually the lesser.
The second, marketing club membership to non-member attendees, is
usually the big deal. It’s almost always about increasing club
membership.

Regional and local events often offer “reciprocal member discounts”
where a group of clubs agree to offer discounts to members of all clubs
in the group. This is particularly common when multiple organizations
in an area offer complimentary events.

Again the reasons: Marketing to club members, but again not that big of
a deal. Marketing the club to non-member attendees is still a big deal.
Fostering goodwill with other clubs and marketing to their members is
the really big deal, though. Reciprocal discounts is a way to get
different clubs working together and supporting each others’ events.

So here’s a few examples:
The SCA offers steep member discounts to attend Pennsic war. This is a
tool to increase membership (you can buy a membership on-site for less
than the discount rate) and manage liability (since some of the
insurance is paid for out of membership fees).

Here in the Bay Area, PEERS (a vintage dance group) offers reciprocal
discounts to GBACG members for their events. There are a ton of costume
events around here, and a lot of work goes into ensuring that clubs
support one another’s events.

Costume-Con doesn’t necessarily fit either of these models well.
Costume-Con may be sponsored by a guild chapter, or it may not be.
Costume-Con may take place in a region where lots of clubs organize
costume events, or it may not.

I don’t see ICG member discounts at CC increasing CC attendance. It’s
also much trickier selling ICG memberships at a CC since the
organization is structured geographically (SiW notwithstanding), though
you could just sell Utah memberships to folks who wanted the discount
on-site (but the non-member surcharge would have to be enough to make
this desirable).

There’s also the basic accounting issue. Complicating the registration
fee options is just that, and requires additional cost accounting to
review and adjust the basic price points. Last thing you need right
now, particularly if you’ve already published rates.

I’m with Karen and Ricky on this one. I say give everybody a quality
conference at a low price, and screw the discounts.

—
andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen
http://www.irlm.org/ – mailto:webmaster@irlm.org
“Anybody who takes this seriously deserves to”
— Donna Barr

>Andy wrote: “Costume-Con doesn’t necessarily fit either of these models well.
>Costume-Con may be sponsored by a guild chapter, or it may not be.
>Costume-Con may take place in a region where lots of clubs organize
>costume events, or it may not.”

The contrast between how Costume-Con and Costume College works (both with
discounts and with marketing) is quite similar to a comparison of the
WorldCon with the San Diego Comic-Con.

I have had a very similar discussion about this issue with John Rogers who
heads up the Comic-Con. John’s event far surpasses any other fannish
gathering in size, programming, and impact, even though the WorldCon
purports to be THE event for SF/F fandom. So I asked him why. He thinks
that World Con is so small in comparison because it is poorly run and promoted.

His remedy? Have the same committee run the event year-to-year and host it
in only a few select sites.

This would please dealers, movie studios, and book publishers who would all
welcome such a change (and the professionalism that such a permanent
committee would bring to the event).

As you might imagine, though, fandom is not amenable to letting some type
of WorldCon, Inc. take charge of the event.

In the same way I do not believe that we will have a central “Costume Con,
Inc.” to run the event. Given the volunteer nature of each year’s con-com,
it is a challenge to put together a “quality conference at a low price”.

Andy wrote: “Last thing you need right now, particularly if you’ve already
published rates.”

But not necessarily a bad idea for CC25 or 26 to consider.

>Andy wrote: “I say give everybody a quality conference at a low price…”

Ultimately, this IS the answer to CCs succeeding in the future. Given a
great venue, good competitions, and such, and people will attend. The
challenge for us is how to balance this.

Dave Doering
CC23

I think Comic-Con is something different than just a big-well-run SF con. (although I have not been there.) First off, World-con IS pretty well known, inside fandom, so I don’t think it has a publicity problem. And fans and vendors don’t avoid World-con because it is not well organized. (Well, they still seem to be able to get vendors.) But Comic Con does two things — it manages to tap into media fandom, and it is located in a large metropolitan area. I don’t think Comic-con would be as successful if it were located in Utah, even if it were run the same. I also think the media con in Denver, is larger than Denver’s SF con.

There may be ways to improve World-con, and perhaps make it larger in the process, but I agree that it is not likely to be by the method suggested.

Charles
CC23

—– Original Message —–
From: David Doering
<snip>
His remedy? Have the same committee run the event year-to-year and host it
in only a few select sites.
<snip>

Dave Doering
CC23

View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/

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We’re talking pro-run vs. fan-run conventions here, which are two VERY
different animals.

And that on top of one convention staying in one place with committee
continuity from year to year and the other convention changing
cities/countries and committees every year. Has to have an impact.

As a side note, I worked registration for the San Diego Comic-Con in 1973
and 1974, back when they were hard-pressed to draw 300 people, LOL!

–Karen

At 09:39 AM 6/9/2004 -0600, you wrote:

>I think Comic-Con is something different than just a big-well-run SF
>con. (although I have not been there.) First off, World-con IS pretty
>well known, inside fandom, so I don’t think it has a publicity
>problem. And fans and vendors don’t avoid World-con because it is not
>well organized. (Well, they still seem to be able to get vendors.) But
>Comic Con does two things — it manages to tap into media fandom, and it
>is located in a large metropolitan area. I don’t think Comic-con would be
>as successful if it were located in Utah, even if it were run the same. I
>also think the media con in Denver, is larger than Denver’s SF con.
>
>There may be ways to improve World-con, and perhaps make it larger in the
>process, but I agree that it is not likely to be by the method suggested.
>
>Charles
>CC23
> —– Original Message —–
> From: David Doering
> <snip>
> His remedy? Have the same committee run the event year-to-year and host it
> in only a few select sites.
> <snip>
>
> Dave Doering
> CC23
>
>
>
>
>
> View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
>
>——————————————————————————
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/runacc/
>
> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> runacc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

At 08:44 PM 6/8/2004, you wrote:

It should also be noted that most of the SMOFS (which make up a large part
of the Permanent Rotating Worldcon Committee) are utterly opposed to
increasing the size of Worldcon. For them it is philosophical. The large
size of Comic-Con or Dragon-Con is antithetical to their underlying
convention mentality.

Many fans have complained about the cost of membership in a Worldcon. Not
long ago, Kevin Standlee noted that if Worldcon could increase its
membership to just 10,000, the same facilities we use now would be able to
handle the membership and membership cost could drop by 33-50%. He was
practically howled off the SMOF list for the temerity.

Pierre

>I have had a very similar discussion about this issue with John Rogers who
>heads up the Comic-Con. John’s event far surpasses any other fannish
>gathering in size, programming, and impact, even though the WorldCon
>purports to be THE event for SF/F fandom. So I asked him why. He thinks
>that World Con is so small in comparison because it is poorly run and
>promoted.
>
>His remedy? Have the same committee run the event year-to-year and host it
>in only a few select sites.
>
>This would please dealers, movie studios, and book publishers who would all
>welcome such a change (and the professionalism that such a permanent
>committee would bring to the event).
>
>As you might imagine, though, fandom is not amenable to letting some type
>of WorldCon, Inc. take charge of the event.

“Those Who Fail To Learn History
Are Doomed to Repeat It;
Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly —
Why They Are Simply Doomed.

Achemdro’hm
“The Illusion of Historical Fact”
— C.Y. 4971

Andromeda

>Pierre wrote: “…to increasing the size of Worldcon. For them it is
>philosophical.”

Exactly my point. The decision has been made to keep the Con as it is,
rather than morph it into something other. Hence Costume College is what it
is and Costume Con is something different.

We do NOT want a permanent CC, Inc. controlling the event nor do we want to
fix it to one city.

Given that, we face in microcosm the problem the WorldCon faces–being too
small to attract the better hotels/convention centers–hence having to go
to suburban cities which are less populated with costumers, thus having
less of a budget to try to build the event, etc.

Dave D.

At 05:18 PM 6/9/2004 -0500, you wrote:

>Not long ago, Kevin Standlee noted that if Worldcon could increase its
>membership to just 10,000, the same facilities we use now would be able to
>handle the membership and membership cost could drop by 33-50%. He was
>practically howled off the SMOF list for the temerity.

Is this where I mention that running a 10,000+ person event has its own
peculiar set of logistical problems, even though it might occupy the same
facilities? I’ve never been to Dragoncon, but have experienced the San
Diego Comic Con as it first started to experience explosive growth, the
1984 Worldcon in Los Angeles, and a whole bunch of STAR TREK and STAR WARS
conventions in the ’70’s that totally overwhelmed their facilities.

I also don’t see why we are discussing this here, as I strongly doubt
Costume-Con will EVER reach that size due to its specialized nature and
other factors (geographic rotation and new committee each year) we have
discussed here and on the CC-23 list. I would be thrilled to see consistent
attendance of 500 at CC, let alone 1,000 or more.

Yes, Costume-Con, like many fannish conventions, takes a lot of function
space in proportion to its membership size. That’s the nature of the beast,
and something each committee wrestles with each year. But its small size
gives it a personalized feel and a sense of community (and being able to
know everyone) that you would not get with a HUGE convention.

–Karen

On Jun 10, 2004, at 8:24 AM, Ricky & Karen Dick wrote:

> I also don’t see why we are discussing this here, as I strongly doubt
> Costume-Con will EVER reach that size due to its specialized nature and
> other factors (geographic rotation and new committee each year) we have
> discussed here and on the CC-23 list. I would be thrilled to see
> consistent
> attendance of 500 at CC, let alone 1,000 or more.

I don’t think anybody is worried about the 10k issue specifically.

I’m interested in examining the decisions that different cons made to
be/remain the size they are, and what they gained or lost by those
decisions.

—
andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen – http://www.bovil.com/
San Jose, CA – ’72 R75/5 ’86 R100 (mine) – ’92 K75sa ’03 R1150R
(Kevin’s)
…remaining .sig trimmed for better message/.sig ratio

Andrew T Trembley wrote:
<snip>

>I’m interested in examining the decisions that different cons made to
>be/remain the size they are, and what they gained or lost by those
>decisions.
>
>I don’t think anybody is worried about the 10k issue specifically.
>

Because Yahoo Groups was playing games again, I missed out on the
beginning of this discussion, but I think that the problem is that
beyond a certain size you cannot run a successful convention only with
volunteer help working on a part time basis. That means that at some
point someone has to make the decision to make the convention a
commercial venture so that it can have at least a core staff of full
time paid workers. Once that decision is made you have a “whole ‘nother
animal” and the most practical way to do this is with a For Profit
(anathema to most fans) corporation. Once you decide that, the
character of the event changes (not always for the worst.)

I have no idea what that magic size is, but I know that the Baltimore
Worldcon in 1998 had about 5,000 people. I was in charge of
“Facilities” (hotels & convention center) with the volunteer assistance
of two lawyers, one who works for the IRS and the other who is a
Baltimore real estate lawyer, and three of the most competent young
ladies that I have ever known. I also know that I personally lost in
excess of $20,000 a year in commercial business because of the time
that I had to spend on the Worldcon Facilities activities in 1997 and
1998. If you think that I’d be willing to do that again, the answer is
not unless I win a majorly big lottery, or a con were willing to pay me
at least that amount plus my expenses. Multiply that by the various
other major activities (programming, registration, publications etc.)
and you can see you are beginning to talk really large amounts of money
to do a large con professionally and successfully.

On the other hand, I’ve already volunteered to do Facilities for a
Costume Con that will probably top out at 500 people, and I really don’t
expect that it will cost me 1/20th of what BucCONeer did. I handled
facilities for Balticon for about 10 years, and after the first year
spent establishing a good working relationship with the hotel I don’t
think that I spent over about 30 or 40 hours a year total , and a good
part of that was beating up on the con committee to get me their
information in a timely manner. That was for a 1,500-1,800 person
convention, held in a single hotel in the same city each year.

my $0.02

Marty

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 6/10/2004 6:16:42 PM Central Daylight Time,
attrembl@bovil.com writes:

> I’m interested in examining the decisions that different cons made to
> be/remain the size they are, and what they gained or lost by those
> decisions.

Andy,
Some of the cons I have either seen or gone to have either plateaued
and just stayed there, or made a decision to be a certain size, which I view as
silly. Some others have not tried hard enough to be bigger. I wish I had
worked harder at making CC21 bigger. Some cons have a good reputation, like a
WorldCom in L.A. They always have a larger than normal for a WorldCom attendance.
Henry

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

At 10:24 AM 6/10/2004, you wrote:

>I also don’t see why we are discussing this here, as I strongly doubt
>Costume-Con will EVER reach that size due to its specialized nature and
>other factors (geographic rotation and new committee each year) we have
>discussed here and on the CC-23 list. I would be thrilled to see consistent
>attendance of 500 at CC, let alone 1,000 or more.

Actually, my point was only in reference to the “suggestion” from the
Comic-Con person that a paid staff and limited sites would help us keep
numbers up. Mostly it was an anecdote on this general topic.

I think increasing the size of CCis a good thing, up to about 600 or so.
The near 900 @ CC8 was impressive, but a bit overwhelming. I remember being
a bit perturbed at not recognizing a majority of the membership.

I think we should learn things from the marketing angle that have resulted
in very populous CCs, though watch ourselves that we’re not overwhelmed.

Pierre

>Yes, Costume-Con, like many fannish conventions, takes a lot of function
>space in proportion to its membership size. That’s the nature of the beast,
>and something each committee wrestles with each year. But its small size
>gives it a personalized feel and a sense of community (and being able to
>know everyone) that you would not get with a HUGE convention.
>
>–Karen

“Those Who Fail To Learn History
Are Doomed to Repeat It;
Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly —
Why They Are Simply Doomed.

Achemdro’hm
“The Illusion of Historical Fact”
— C.Y. 4971

Andromeda

At 03:46 PM 6/11/2004 -0500, you wrote:

>I think increasing the size of CCis a good thing, up to about 600 or so.

The 500 and 600 person CC’s seem to be less financial wear and tear on
their committees, which would be a Good Thing.

>The near 900 @ CC8 was impressive, but a bit overwhelming. I remember being
>a bit perturbed at not recognizing a majority of the membership.

I didn’t mind seeing the new faces so much, but the hotel was chosen on the
basis of CC-6’s membership 2 years prior, and was completely overwhelmed by
the influx of so many additonal people. If memory serves me, they
eventually had to close registration because the panel rooms were so badly
overcrowded.

Although CC-8 wasn’t as bad as the first STAR TREK convention I went to
(1973). They were expecting 1500 people and got 10,000. Talk about a
logistics nightmare!

>I think we should learn things from the marketing angle that have resulted
>in very populous CCs, though watch ourselves that we’re not overwhelmed.

Another factor may be that the very populous cons are held in very populous
states / cities, so there are more interested people to draw from. And
fannish costumers have always seemed to be more active on both coasts vs.
the MidWest, even before Costume-Con was formed, especially with media
recreation cotumes. The new fad would hit (Battlestar Galactica uniforms,
for example), and the Californians would have copies of it within weeks,
and the Boston and Baltimore crowd would have it 6 months later…and then
2 years later, it would finally trickle down to the center of the country.

–Karen

There’s definitely something to be said for a good marketing campaign,
though. Unfortunately, we also have negative examples (Costume-Cons who
bailed out early on publicity and paid a heavy price in attendance numbers.)

All this theory is interesting discussion, but frankly, it’s a little ahead
of the game. Unless we begin promoting CC on a national level, attendance
is NOT going to get any better. Past CC attendance proves that.

Taking the initiative, Nora proposed a national flyer and posted it to the
Yahoo files more than three weeks ago. We’re both a bit puzzled by the lack
of ANY response by this list. C’mon folks, let’s stay stay focused.
Costume-Con is never going to GET any bigger if you don’t promote it. And I
don’t mean each of our cons doing it seperately.

If no one wants to do the work, then we’d better admit that
upfront and lower our expectations.

Bruce

As an addition to that, I continue to lament the lack of heavy promotion
and push for the Future Fashion Folio. This publication could be a
major marketing tool, but continues to be hampered by lack of support
WITHIN the current ICG community, much less getting the word out in a
timely manner to other groups.

Some people have stated in print that they do not approve of the way the
Folio has been evolving over the past few years. I have a number of
comments regarding that, but my bottom line is this: TOO BAD. If we
persist in old and inflexible notions about what “future fashions” look
like, we will drive away large sources of new people. Future fashion
isn’t just next century; it’s next month, next year. If we don’t intend
to adapt to make our venues appealing to more people, we should just
admit it and accept that we’re another marginalized geek clique. I
don’t accept it, and I will continue to fight that image.

Karen

Bruce & Nora Mai wrote:

> All this theory is interesting discussion, but frankly, it’s a little
> ahead
> of the game. Unless we begin promoting CC on a national level, attendance
> is NOT going to get any better. Past CC attendance proves that.
>
> Taking the initiative, Nora proposed a national flyer and posted it to the
> Yahoo files more than three weeks ago. We’re both a bit puzzled by
> the lack
> of ANY response by this list. C’mon folks, let’s stay stay focused.
> Costume-Con is never going to GET any bigger if you don’t promote it.
> And I
> don’t mean each of our cons doing it seperately.
>
> If no one wants to do the work, then we’d better admit that
> upfront and lower our expectations.
>
> Bruce
>

Bruce & Nora,
I’m sorry I missed that you posted the flyer. I will look at it this
morning.
I agree on your sentiment about attendance at CC’s. It does stay about
the same amount every year, within a certain variance. I believe that one of
the concepts of having a convention solely about costuming is to attract new
people and new ideas. The only way we are going to do that is by increasing the
number of people showing up. I believe that all the CC’s lined up in the
future could easily handle even 50 more people showing up. Of course, 100 would be
great, but even 50 is good.
Henry

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 6/13/2004 5:43:54 PM Central Daylight Time,
axejudge@accessus.net writes:

> If we
> persist in old and inflexible notions about what “future fashions” look
> like, we will drive away large sources of new people.

Hear, Hear! Well put, Karen!

When I first got into the costuming crowd, I said that its biggest lesson is
“The world is malleable. Things can be changed.” Admittedly, I am still new on
the scene, but I still love doing things that people don’t think about.

Henry

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Jun 13, 2004, at 2:44 PM, Bruce & Nora Mai wrote:

> Taking the initiative, Nora proposed a national flyer and posted it to
> the
> Yahoo files more than three weeks ago. We’re both a bit puzzled by
> the lack
> of ANY response by this list. C’mon folks, let’s stay stay focused.
> Costume-Con is never going to GET any bigger if you don’t promote it.
> And I
> don’t mean each of our cons doing it seperately.

We’ve been passing out our “Mark Your Calendar” flyer that lists info
for CC23, CC24, CC25 and our proposed date for CC26 at every convention
we go to.

—
andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen
http://www.irlm.org/ – mailto:webmaster@irlm.org
“Anybody who takes this seriously deserves to”
— Donna Barr

I have downloaded it and looked it over. The basic form is good. A bunch of
fill-in-the-spot spots, but the basic layout is good.

Andy, have you made a tweaked up version?

Henry

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Jun 13, 2004, at 3:43 PM, Karen Heim wrote:

> As an addition to that, I continue to lament the lack of heavy
> promotion
> and push for the Future Fashion Folio. This publication could be a
> major marketing tool, but continues to be hampered by lack of support
> WITHIN the current ICG community, much less getting the word out in a
> timely manner to other groups.

We are where we are right now, but I personally would like to see the
Des Moines folio directors ramping up now to accept entries immediately
after the Utah folio entry period closes. It would be nice to include
in the Utah folio information on entering in the Des Moines contest. I
would like to see the Des Moines folio directors at Utah soliciting
entries in person, and at any other conventions afterwards they can
afford to make it to.

Folio release and CC are both times that there’s a lot of excitement
about the design competition, and may be a rich time to get new
entries.

We also need releases that make the folio and designs within easier to
use for marketing.

‘course, this has been said before and there’s every chance it’s
already in the works.

—
andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen – http://www.bovil.com/
San Jose, CA – ’72 R75/5 ’86 R100 (mine) – ’92 K75sa ’03 R1150R
(Kevin’s)
…remaining .sig trimmed for better message/.sig ratio

Yes, and it has been pointed out that in doing FFF, that you are working with artists — Send the information out too early, and it gets lost, send it out too late, and there will not be enough time. So it turns out that the trick is to send out info early, send a reminder months before the dead-line, and then again, with enough weeks for the artists to finish. It is the process of matching the muse, with deadlines.

And in working with FFF for CC-23, it was again realized that there can be a number of issues involved, with artist’s protections, and publication, on-line, and in-print.

Charles

—– Original Message —–
From: Andrew T Trembley
To: runacc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: PROMOTION!! (was Re: [runacc] ICG Discount)

On Jun 13, 2004, at 3:43 PM, Karen Heim wrote:
> As an addition to that, I continue to lament the lack of heavy
> promotion
> and push for the Future Fashion Folio. This publication could be a
> major marketing tool, but continues to be hampered by lack of support
> WITHIN the current ICG community, much less getting the word out in a
> timely manner to other groups.

We are where we are right now, but I personally would like to see the
Des Moines folio directors ramping up now to accept entries immediately
after the Utah folio entry period closes. It would be nice to include
in the Utah folio information on entering in the Des Moines contest. I
would like to see the Des Moines folio directors at Utah soliciting
entries in person, and at any other conventions afterwards they can
afford to make it to.

Folio release and CC are both times that there’s a lot of excitement
about the design competition, and may be a rich time to get new
entries.

We also need releases that make the folio and designs within easier to
use for marketing.

‘course, this has been said before and there’s every chance it’s
already in the works.

—
andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen – http://www.bovil.com/
San Jose, CA – ’72 R75/5 ’86 R100 (mine) – ’92 K75sa ’03 R1150R
(Kevin’s)
…remaining .sig trimmed for better message/.sig ratio

View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/

Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

At 07:36 PM 6/14/2004, you wrote:

>On Jun 13, 2004, at 3:43 PM, Karen Heim wrote:
> > As an addition to that, I continue to lament the lack of heavy
> > promotion
> > and push for the Future Fashion Folio. This publication could be a
> > major marketing tool, but continues to be hampered by lack of support
> > WITHIN the current ICG community, much less getting the word out in a
> > timely manner to other groups.
>
>We are where we are right now, but I personally would like to see the
>Des Moines folio directors ramping up now to accept entries immediately
>after the Utah folio entry period closes. It would be nice to include
>in the Utah folio information on entering in the Des Moines contest. I
>would like to see the Des Moines folio directors at Utah soliciting
>entries in person, and at any other conventions afterwards they can
>afford to make it to.

Actually, Andy, the CC24 folio rules have already been published. We can
take designs now, but obviously won’t be heavily promoting until after the
cc23’s folio ceases to accept entries. Sandy is the folio director for 24
and is planning some things for 23.

Pierre

>Folio release and CC are both times that there’s a lot of excitement
>about the design competition, and may be a rich time to get new
>entries.
>
>We also need releases that make the folio and designs within easier to
>use for marketing.
>
>’course, this has been said before and there’s every chance it’s
>already in the works.
>
>–
>andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen – http://www.bovil.com/
>San Jose, CA – ’72 R75/5 ’86 R100 (mine) – ’92 K75sa ’03 R1150R
>(Kevin’s)

“Those Who Fail To Learn History
Are Doomed to Repeat It;
Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly —
Why They Are Simply Doomed.

Achemdro’hm
“The Illusion of Historical Fact”
— C.Y. 4971

Andromeda

Good thoughts. I think what Dave siad was helpful, as well.

Bruce

—– Original Message —–
From: “martingear” <MartinGear@comcast.net>
To: <runacc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2004 11:24 PM
Subject: Re: [runacc] Hotel Contracts

> Bruce –
> I’d be happy to read what the hotel has given you and give you my
> comments. Andy and David have pretty much given you the magic words.
> Telling the hotel that this is a national organization’s model contract
> tells the hotel that someone has dealt with hotels before and has gotten
> that agreement accepted. (True!) If the hotel balks then suggest that
> you start with the national contract and “tweak it” where necessary
> incorporating their concerns, but imply that you expect that the
> necessary changes will be minor. The contract is actually written
> fairly for both parties, and it does cover many of things that most
> hotels don’t even think about, but are very important to Costume Cons.
> If the hotel refuses absolutely to start with your contract then be
> afraid, very afraid. The fact that they have given you a proposal and
> you are now bringing in your own contract can be explained by telling
> the hotel that you have just returned from CC-22 where you won the bid
> and were given the model contract by the national organization. (O.K.,
> so you got it from me… pretend this once that I represent the national
> organization 🙂 )
>
> Marty
>
> Bruce & Nora Mai wrote:
>
> >We have a CC25 committee meeting coming up this Saturday, and one of the
> >things we’ll be discussing with them is the hotel contract. I have the
> >hotel’s version (4 pages) and Marty’s epic <g>. I’d like to run the
> >proposal past Marty and others here who have had hotel experience and get
> >pointers. One of my main questions is: how do I work the CC contract
> >smoothly into the mix at this point, since we haven’t signed anything
yet,
> >but have their proposal in hand? If possible, I’d like to get feedback
> >before tomorrow Saturday evening.
> >
> >Bruce
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

Have CCs in the past used general releases for entire convention or just the
masquerades?

Does anyone have any realiable info on people refusing to sign safety and
photography releases? How high an incidence is there?

Has there ever been a plan for dealing with anyone refusing to sign?

How appropriate would it be to state a release policy ahead of the
convention so that members know what they’re going to encounter (safety,
photography, video, etc.). Has this ever been done? Is it even nedessary?

Bruce

I believe that there was a group at CC-7 who refused to allow their hall
costumes to be photographed although I don’t remember their reasons
why. For all the convention masquerades that I have run, the policy has
been if you don’t sign the release (one for both photo and safety) you
don’t enter the masquerade and you don’t set foot on the stage. I can’t
remember anyone ever challanging that, although I do remember someone
who forged some signatures from her group. When we discovered that, we
caught them in the Green Room and had all group members sign which they
were quite willing to do.

In particular you have to have them sign the “hold harmless” or you are
leaving the con open for a massive law suit and it could well affect
your insurance coverage. No release protects you in cases of gross
negligence or deliberate unsafe practices, but it does prevent one from
sueing the convention or the venue if he steps blindly off the stage.
(He writes, speaking from experience.)

Marty

Bruce & Nora Mai wrote:

>Have CCs in the past used general releases for entire convention or just the
>masquerades?
>
>Does anyone have any realiable info on people refusing to sign safety and
>photography releases? How high an incidence is there?
>
>Has there ever been a plan for dealing with anyone refusing to sign?
>
>How appropriate would it be to state a release policy ahead of the
>convention so that members know what they’re going to encounter (safety,
>photography, video, etc.). Has this ever been done? Is it even nedessary?
>
>Bruce
>
>
>
>View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

No problem, Marty–thanks for bringing this up. I guess it should be on the
“list of stuff to discus with the hotel.” I’m just trying to think of ways
we can conserve function space at future cons, as I know we are extremely
space intensive for the size of the con.

We’re looking at a Mariiott as a possibility for 30, so that’s a good
heads-up, too.

–Karen

At 05:50 PM 4/17/2004 -0400, you wrote:

>While I think that the concept of a “Dealers’ Row” is wonderful. (Love
>it at Arisia) some hotels will not approve. I ran into that at the
>Baltimore Marriott when we were looking at the possibility of moving
>Balticon there several year ago. I don’t want to throw cold water on
>the idea, just giving everyone a heads up.
>
>^M^
>
>Ricky & Karen Dick wrote:
>
> >As a costume / corset dealer, I LOVE it. With a room with a bathroom,
> >people can try on stuff and not leave the dealer’s domain. (I still
> >recommend having more than one set of eyes to watch the room at any given
> >time.) I also like being able to set our own hours.
> >
> >I don’t know Devra all that well–anybody else have a closer relationship
> >where they could possibly ask?
> >
> >–Karen
> >
> >At 08:57 AM 4/17/2004 -0400, you wrote:
> >
> >
> >>And one further consideration in favor of this arrangement:
> >>
> >>Security becomes the problem of the dealers, not the conference.
> >>
> >>In a shared Dealer Room area, someone has to be sure that nothing walks
> >>overnight. You can plant someone in the room overnight for security, or
> >>hire someone to watch the space. I know we had some issues at CCXV, and
> >>I think there were also some problems with locks on the doors at CC22.
> >>
> >>I’d be interested in hearing what Devra Langsam might have to say about
> >>such an arrangement, since Poison Pen Press is more or less a fixture at
> >>CCs.
> >>
> >>Cheers,
> >>
> >>Betsy
> >>Ricky & Karen Dick wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>Future concoms should give some thought to handling dealers the way some
> >>>East Coast S/F and clown conventions are doing it lately: hotel rooms are
> >>>blocked into a “Dealer’s Row” on the same floor as, and preferably near,
> >>>the con suite. Dealers deal out of their hotel rooms, so they can set
> >>>
> >>>
> >>their
> >>
> >>
> >>>own hours (and maybe a dealer such as AlterYears would be able to get a
> >>>suite in order to maximize their space). Charge is a nominal fee over the
> >>>price of the hotel room so the con gets its cut.
> >>>
> >>>Most of these conventions have a regular dealer’s room as well, but I can
> >>>see advantages to going 100% to the Dealer’s Row format–it frees up
> >>>breakout rooms or ballroom space for other con programming. Since space is
> >>>usually at a premium at CC, this could be a Very Good Thing.
> >>>(Also solves the eternal problem of finding a space large enough for
> >>>AlterYears.)
> >>>
> >>>Ricky and I did the “Dealer’s Row” thing at Arisia and LunaCon this year,
> >>>and it was very successful, especially considering we were frequently
> >>>closed because we were on programming, in competitions, etc. It also gives
> >>>conventioneers something else to do late at night besides hanging out in
> >>>the con suite (sort of spreads the party around).
> >>>
> >>>Just a thought, as we’re all thinking about hotel contracts and trying to
> >>>get enough space, etc.
> >>>
> >>>–Karen
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
> >>>Yahoo! Groups Links
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>–
> >>–
> >>Betsy R. Delaney
> >>Web Mistress at large
> >>
> >>************************************************************************
> >> http://www.WebInvent.com/ * http://www.hawkeswood.com/
> >> http://www.Costume-Con.org/ * http://www.sickpups.org/
> >> http://www.SchoolWithoutWalls.org/
> >>************************************************************************
> >>
> >>
> >>View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
> >>Yahoo! Groups Links
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Bruce,
We had a general release for all pictures at the taken at the con by
anybody. I can e-mail you a copy of it, if you would like.
Henry

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Might this topic be appropriate on runacc?

Byron

—– Original Message —–
From: “J Price” <taknflyte@yahoo.com>
To: <ICG-D@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2004 8:28 PM
Subject: Re: [ICG-D] Upcoming CostumeCon Locations

> I have to disagree with you, Karen. Key people do not
> need to be co-located, they just need to do their
> homework about the area, know what they’re doing and
> how to coordinate from a distance. That’s not to say
> the committee is running with whatever the pig in the
> poke ends up being. Consistent and regular contact is
> mandated and site visits are a necessity. Probably
> wouldn’t be a hardship though, expecially if one were
> looking at locations like Las Vegas or New Orleans or
> similar.
>
> However, I think it’s a better discussion off list
> between people who might have an interest. =)
>
> JP
>
> — Ricky & Karen Dick <castleb@pulsenet.com> wrote:
> > I’m with Carole, and I’ve mostly seen it be a total
> > disaster. You need some
> > key people on the ground in the area (hotel liaison,
> > exhibit room, dealer
> > room, and an events coordinator)–other departments
> > are plug-and-play
> > (green room, fashion folio/show).
> >
> > –Karen
> >
> > At 11:27 PM 4/16/2004 -0700, you wrote:
> > >Definitely not quoting the Worldcon
> > > > model but I’ve been involved in successful
> > smaller
> > > > conventions where members of the committee did
> > not
> > > > live anywhere near the actual site.
> > >
> > >I’ve seen that work, and I’ve seen it be a total
> > disaster. For it to
> > >work really requires the right people.
> > >
> > >Until later–
> > >
> > >Carole

I know that I disagree with Sharon Trembley over this point, but I would be
extremely worried about an attempt to hold a CC in Las Vegas with no local
committee members at all. So far as I am aware, there is nothing to
indicate that the city is at all costumer friendly.

BTW, as a native New Yorker, I’d feel the same way about an attempt to run a
CC in New York City; it is a terribly difficult venue in which to hold a
convention unless you have 5,000+ attendees or Donald Trump’s money. I have
a feeling that Las Vegas poses similar challenges that would demand people
on the ground and familiar with the city’s culture and economy.

Byron

—– Original Message —–
From: “Scott & JoAnn Abbott” <bubblemum@comcast.net>
To: <ICG-D@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2004 1:03 AM
Subject: Re: [ICG-D] Upcoming CostumeCon Locations

> Las Vegas….just to drool at the Liberace museum would be nice…then
there
> is the Star Trek experience and all kinds of other neat places to see and
> play.
>
> Might wind up missing the con though, having too much fun in the rest of
the
> town!
>
> JoAnn in VA

Having been involved in several business and techie type conventions in
L-V, I’d like to make several comments.
1- The LV Convention & Business Association advertises that you can book
1 Million hotel rooms with a single telephone call.
2- Most LV hotels get the bulk of their revenue from gambling and aren’t
particularly interested in groups that don’t gamble heavily.
3- I have yet to visit a Las Vegas hotel that was non-smoking. Even if
they offer non-smoking rooms, they are usually set up so that you have
to go through the casino to get from the sleeping rooms to function
space, and the casinos are heavy smoking areas.
4- Las Vegas is one of the most heavily unionized cities that I have
ever work in, and this includes the hotels.
5- NetWorld/Interop brought 50,000 visitors into Las Vegas and had to
pay for the hotel function space that they used in addition to the
Convention Center rental.
6- Unless you have a local group in Las Vegas that wants to run a CC and
can work around or through the above, don’t even think about that city
as a location. If you want to go to Atlantic City, or Reno, or Las
Vegas go on vacation or on business when someone else is paying for it,
but don’t try to combine it with costume con.

Marty

Byron Connell wrote:

>I know that I disagree with Sharon Trembley over this point, but I would be
>extremely worried about an attempt to hold a CC in Las Vegas with no local
>committee members at all. So far as I am aware, there is nothing to
>indicate that the city is at all costumer friendly.
>
>BTW, as a native New Yorker, I’d feel the same way about an attempt to run a
>CC in New York City; it is a terribly difficult venue in which to hold a
>convention unless you have 5,000+ attendees or Donald Trump’s money. I have
>a feeling that Las Vegas poses similar challenges that would demand people
>on the ground and familiar with the city’s culture and economy.
>
>Byron
>
>

>I don’t have an argument with people basing designs on bogus period
>sources; the source itself is legitimately historical even if the
>garment it describes never existed. I doubt I’d ding somebody in that
>case. I’d actually probably give extra credit to somebody who
>identified that a real historical source had bogus content and entered
>something based on it as a recreation of a historical fantasy.
>
>I’m more concerned (and I know this is nitpicking) with bogus
>out-of-period sources, such as discredited pop anthropologists.

Andy,

I hate to be annoying, but there are lots of us out here who haven’t a clue
how to know if the source was a discredited pop-anthropologist! Lots of us
want to try wetting our toes in historicals, but you, quite frankly, can
scare us away!

I am a costumer who happens to want to reproduce some of the wonderful
garments I have seen pictures of. I have looked in books and pattern
sources. I have asked friends for advice. I have gotten the courage to
make said garment – which (as we all know) is much harder than I had
anticipated! I have screwed up the courage to go through rigourous
pre-judging. I have done all of this, but you say I also need to find out
if my sources were bogus!?

Fageddaboudit! I’ll go back to the F/SF. Judging criteria like those are
the big reason why I continue to do only humorous entries in historical –
but I got to be a Master that way!

Elaine

Blessed are we who can laugh at ourselves, for we shall always be amused.

_________________________________________________________________
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Elaine,
ANy historical costume needs more than one source to coroborate the info,
just like the weekly world news or the enquirer does.
But serouosly, your first source is the thing that inspired you to make it.
You don’t necc. need tons of info on that dress itself, but a couple of
other overviews of the time period would make your’ first source seem resonable

For example, My Baseball Player from CC-9. was inspired by the statue of
Casey at the Bat in Cooperstown. So it’s like any other art piece. (
although in this case a fictional one)

So easily whithin the same library, I found pic’s of REAL players of the time,
then I found a sporting goods catalog with fabric descriptions, and a few
samples
I also found out that the statue was WRONG about some things.
So I changed them for my costume.

So if you have a pic or a painting of something you like, it seems logical
to just study the period in general and find more than one book that seems
to tell you the same things generally, and use it as an overlaying guide to
building the costume.

> Judging criteria like those are
>the big reason why I continue to do only humorous entries in historical –
>but I got to be a Master that way!

Well, you know you’re preaching to the choir here. After the ass-munching
that I got as CC-6,
I chose never to compete the Baseball uniform, even though I actually did
all the research.
So I have my 3 Historical wins as The Motown group, ( cc4)The Hobo
Clowns,(cc10)and now the Beatniks.(cc21)
And if there’s a cool dress you want, just make it and enjoy.

Ricky

On Apr 19, 2004, at 12:09 PM, Elaine Mami wrote:

> I am a costumer who happens to want to reproduce some of the wonderful
> garments I have seen pictures of. I have looked in books and pattern
> sources. I have asked friends for advice. I have gotten the courage
> to
> make said garment – which (as we all know) is much harder than I had
> anticipated! I have screwed up the courage to go through rigourous
> pre-judging. I have done all of this, but you say I also need to find
> out
> if my sources were bogus!?

There is plenty of room for this in the historical interpretation
category. It is generally accepted that a historical interpretation
entry only need show that it’s based on historical sources, and all you
really need for that is a picture or two. I’ve specifically been
talking about historical recreation and that’s a whole different
animal. Part of this is informed by my observations of SCA
arts-and-sciences judging where research skills are valued a skill as
actual technique.

And in any case, I expect that you would be smart enough to steer clear
of sources like Erich von Daniken (unless, of course, that were part of
your joke).

You know, now you’ve got me thinking about next year and doing a
historical Egyptian based on old Rosicrucian sources…

😉

andy

—
andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen – http://www.bovil.com/
San Jose, CA – ’72 R75/5 ’86 R100 (mine) – ’92 K75sa ’03 R1150R
(Kevin’s)
…remaining .sig trimmed for better message/.sig ratio

OK, Andy, that’s the best answer for Elaine-now. Now what about the answer
for Elaine-who wants to do Recreation? What about anyone who wants to try
recreation? Are you saying that everyone MUST have knowledge of bogus
sources? How are we to do that without training? And what about the vast
numbers of us who are not SCAdians?

And, while I am smart, I just may not know who Erich von Daniken is. What
may seem obvious to you is not always obvious to everyone else. My major
was nursing; not art, history, religion or fashion. I’ll just bet the same
would apply to many other costumers, as well.

I think the judges should rely, again, on the documentation presented,
instead of what they “know” about the source of the documentation. They
might want, at another time, to let the costumer know more about their
sources – which will educate them a bit for future research. I look at the
historical in general as a whole new field of education for myself, and
welcome information. However, I am not interested in taking formal studies
just to participate.

Sorry, but I have to continue to disagree with you on this one. Please do
not summarily consign everyone who is less knowlegeable than yourself to
Interp.

Elaine

>
>There is plenty of room for this in the historical interpretation
>category. It is generally accepted that a historical interpretation
>entry only need show that it’s based on historical sources, and all you
>really need for that is a picture or two. I’ve specifically been
>talking about historical recreation and that’s a whole different
>animal. Part of this is informed by my observations of SCA
>arts-and-sciences judging where research skills are valued a skill as
>actual technique.
>
>And in any case, I expect that you would be smart enough to steer clear
>of sources like Erich von Daniken (unless, of course, that were part of
>your joke).
>

_________________________________________________________________
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Ricky,

>And if there’s a cool dress you want, just make it and enjoy.

That is exactly what I do, as I’m sure you have seen. I was playing Devil’s
Advocate here. Someone has to speak up for the wannabees. I want to
encourage people to wade in and test the waters, because we need them! And
I WAS thinking about CC 6, and about Kathy & Drew’s “The Rape of the Lock,”
which was a bead-for-bead recreation of the painting – but not historically
perfect – according to the judges, who “knew.”

But I thank you for the encouragement!

Elaine

_________________________________________________________________
Watch LIVE baseball games on your computer with MLB.TV, included with MSN
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Kevin and I just got back from Denver Coronation, where we hung out
with folks from The Imperial Rainbow Court of Northern Utah (Ogden) and
The Imperial Court of Iowa (Des Moines). Showed them WorldCon and CC
masquerade pictures after the ball. Those queens just went ape. None of
them had any idea anything like this happens.

Go to their coronations. These are events where folks from around the
country and particularly within the region come to congratulate the
local Empress and Emperor on their successful year raising money for
charity. Dress for the theme. Hand out fliers and award ribbons if you
have them. Think about “walking as an in-town organization” (and if you
decide to, email me and ask how protocol works). These folks live to
dress finely and look spectacular. You’ll get members, particularly
from the in-region folks.

http://www.impcourt.org/icis/chapters/ogden.html
Ogden’s coronation is November 19, 2004. They’ve got a crap theme: “An
Evening of Diversity, Worldwide Celebration” — not much inspiration to
make something specific for it, but just about any formal or ethnic
costume would be appropriate.

http://www.impcourt.org/icis/chapters/desmoines.html
http://www.imperialcourtofia.org/Coronation%20XI.htm
Iowa coronation is September 25, 2004, and there’s a tiny chance we
might be there. Now they’ve got a theme… “Vampires, Witches and
Warlocks: A Nocturnal Journey into Magic, Voodoo and Beyond.” The
fancier and gothier the better.

—
andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen – http://www.bovil.com/
San Jose, CA – ’72 R75/5 ’86 R100 (mine) – ’92 K75sa ’03 R1150R
(Kevin’s)
“It’s not pink, it’s peach-colored. Pink is tacky.”
–Manfred Pfirsich Marie Rommel

2nd most important safety device on my bike: the one beneath my right
hand
Most important safety device on my bike: the one inside my helmet

This is the message I sent to our new court members in San Jose the
beginning of this reign. For more information about what Imperial
Courts do these days, check out our website at http://www.irlm.org/

Begin forwarded message:
Subject: [IRLM-R34] Court History in a nutshell 1

Chapter 1: When dirt was new, and some drag queen decided it might make
a nice facial mask

It’s not all about Mama José, but great parts might as well be. Mama
José really is a legend in her own time. If only a quarter of the
stories she tells were true, she would still be a formidable queen.
There’s plenty to back all of them up, though. Even the really crazy
ones.

Back in the 40’s and 50’s, a young gay man named José Sarria made a
name for himself hosting and doing drag at a gay bar/restaurant in San
Francisco called “The Black Cat.” The Black Cat closed when the staff
and ownership finally got tired of fighting with the state, city and
county regulators, which is what it took to keep a gay bar open at the
time. Afterwards, José still kept his hand in and stayed in contact
with the fledgling Tavern Guild, an association of SF gay bar owners
that formed in the early sixties. He also ran for County Supervisor in
1961, the first openly gay man (and definitely the first drag queen) to
run for public office anywhere.

In 1965, the Tavern Guild sponsored a drag ball where José was offered
the crown of queen of the ball. She took it, saying something to the
effect of “I’ve been a queen all of my life,” put the crown on her own
head and declared herself “Empress of San Francisco.” The Tavern Guild
turned this into an annual ball, electing and crowning a new Empress
every year.

There’s some parallel stuff going on in Portland at this time, too. In
1958, Queen Samuel of the Court of Transylvania declared herself
Monarch of Portland. Only lasted a little over a year, but in 1966 they
started electing “Rose Queens” twice a year.

Note: This was all pre-Stonewall. There was gay life before Stonewall.

San Jose comes into the picture in 1970, electing our first Empress (or
“Reina” as we referred to them back then) of Casa de San Jose, the
first “new” Imperial Court to follow San Francisco. Shortly after that,
Portland elected its first “Rose Empress” and Vancouver, BC elected the
first Empress of Canada (well, after Queen Victoria). Amongst protocol
wonks you’ll hear arguments (pretty much worn out by now) who has the
oldest court. Don’t worry too much about it. The nice thing is at
coronations where courts are presented in order of first reign
(sometimes jokingly referred to as “age before beauty”) we walk really
early.

But let’s get back to Mama José. By 1974, Empress José had declared
herself José, Empress Norton I, the Widow Norton, wife to the late
Joshua Norton, Emperor of the United States and Protector of Mexico.

So here’s your ancient history lesson. Joshua Abraham Norton was a San
Francisco businessman who lost his fortune in a bad business deal in
the 1850s. He went a bit crazy, hid away from the world for 5 years,
and when he re-emerged proclaimed himself Norton I, Emperor of the
United States (he added “Protector of Mexico” later). Emperor Norton
was a classy nutcase, though. Breezing through San Francisco high
society, dressed to the nines in a military uniform appropriate to an
Emperor, and without a dime to his name most of the time, he was loved
by the city. He was loved to the point that many businesses accepted
his personal currency. He died in 1880, some forty years before José’s
birth.

The Sunday morning after San Francisco Coronation 1974, Mama José and a
few other drag queens got into a limo with their escorts and were
chauffeured to Woodlawn Cemetery in Colma to visit the grave of Emperor
Norton, beginning a 30 year tradition. Not to buck a trend, the
cemetery directors (including a former Mayor of SF and a California
Superior Court Judge) quietly welcomed them back after the first year,
providing coffee, danish, and a place for the visitors to assemble
before walking up the hill to the grave-site.

Keep that ever in mind.

We’re playing an old and very silly game here. We’re following the
vision of a short little hispanic drag queen with unbelievable
chutzpah, walking in the footsteps of a nearly 200 year old San
Francisco street person. Whatever you might say of either of them, both
have made their place in the world with grace and style. It’s up to us
to maintain a sense of both the ridiculous and sublime.

—
andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen
http://www.irlm.org/ – mailto:webmaster@irlm.org
“Anybody who takes this seriously deserves to”
— Donna Barr

Andy,
Actually, it’s a good idea for any upcoming CC.
Henry

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Apr 26, 2004, at 6:52 PM, Andrew T Trembley wrote:

> http://www.impcourt.org/icis/chapters/ogden.html
> Ogden’s coronation is November 19, 2004. They’ve got a crap theme: “An
> Evening of Diversity, Worldwide Celebration” — not much inspiration to
> make something specific for it, but just about any formal or ethnic
> costume would be appropriate.

‘k, the theme isn’t as dire as I though; it’s just schitzophrenic. I
found their flyer.

Coronations take part in “acts” and they’re doing a different theme for
each act (I assume in this order)
A Journey to Cirque du Soleil
Party Down Bourbon Street
Celebrate A Chinese New Year

Oh, and it’s at… Ta Da! the Ogden Marriot. Good chance to look over
the hotel while a function is going on. Also good chance to get the
scuttlebutt on how the hotel is to work with.

—
andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen – http://www.bovil.com/
San Jose, CA – ’72 R75/5 ’86 R100 (mine) – ’92 K75sa ’03 R1150R
(Kevin’s)
“It’s not pink, it’s peach-colored. Pink is tacky.”
–Manfred Pfirsich Marie Rommel

2nd most important safety device on my bike: the one beneath my right
hand
Most important safety device on my bike: the one inside my helmet

Forgot one for y’all

Memorial Day Weekend (assuming you’re not going to BayCon or something
else scheduled then) is Salt Lake City’s coronation.
Saturday, May 29, 2004
Hilton Salt Lake City Center
http://www.rcgse.org/calendar/2004-05-Coronation.html

Now these folks have a theme… “Namaste,” a celebration of India’s
golden age. Salt Lake Coronation is also one of those destinations that
imperials from all over the continent go to. It’s a chance to do some
nationwide marketing within an hour’s drive of home.

—
andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen – http://www.bovil.com/
San Jose, CA – ’72 R75/5 ’86 R100 (mine) – ’92 K75sa ’03 R1150R
(Kevin’s)
…remaining .sig trimmed for better message/.sig ratio

What about St. Louis?

Nora

—– Original Message —–
From: “Andrew T Trembley” <attrembl@bovil.com>
To: <runacc@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: “Sallie Abba” <srabba@worldnet.att.net>; “David Doering”
<dave@techvoice.com>
Sent: Monday, April 26, 2004 8:52 PM
Subject: [runacc] Marketing opportunity for Ogden and Des Moines

> Kevin and I just got back from Denver Coronation, where we hung out
> with folks from The Imperial Rainbow Court of Northern Utah (Ogden) and
> The Imperial Court of Iowa (Des Moines). Showed them WorldCon and CC
> masquerade pictures after the ball. Those queens just went ape. None of
> them had any idea anything like this happens.
>
> Go to their coronations. These are events where folks from around the
> country and particularly within the region come to congratulate the
> local Empress and Emperor on their successful year raising money for
> charity. Dress for the theme. Hand out fliers and award ribbons if you
> have them. Think about “walking as an in-town organization” (and if you
> decide to, email me and ask how protocol works). These folks live to
> dress finely and look spectacular. You’ll get members, particularly
> from the in-region folks.
>
> http://www.impcourt.org/icis/chapters/ogden.html
> Ogden’s coronation is November 19, 2004. They’ve got a crap theme: “An
> Evening of Diversity, Worldwide Celebration” — not much inspiration to
> make something specific for it, but just about any formal or ethnic
> costume would be appropriate.
>
> http://www.impcourt.org/icis/chapters/desmoines.html
> http://www.imperialcourtofia.org/Coronation%20XI.htm
> Iowa coronation is September 25, 2004, and there’s a tiny chance we
> might be there. Now they’ve got a theme… “Vampires, Witches and
> Warlocks: A Nocturnal Journey into Magic, Voodoo and Beyond.” The
> fancier and gothier the better.
>
> —
> andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen – http://www.bovil.com/
> San Jose, CA – ’72 R75/5 ’86 R100 (mine) – ’92 K75sa ’03 R1150R
> (Kevin’s)
> “It’s not pink, it’s peach-colored. Pink is tacky.”
> –Manfred Pfirsich Marie Rommel
>
> 2nd most important safety device on my bike: the one beneath my right
> hand
> Most important safety device on my bike: the one inside my helmet
>
>
>
>
> View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

On Apr 27, 2004, at 4:29 AM, Bruce & Nora Mai wrote:

> What about St. Louis?

St. Louis doesn’t have an Imperial Court. Sorry. Doesn’t mean that the
Des Moines and Ogden folks can’t put out your fliers there if they go,
though.

You can check the chapter listing
http://www.impcourt.org/icis/chapters/index.html for what’s near, but
it looks like Des Moines, Chicago, Lexington (KY) and maybe Omaha are
the nearest courts to you. Probably a bit too much of a trek for the
return.

—
andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen – http://www.bovil.com/
San Jose, CA – ’72 R75/5 ’86 R100 (mine) – ’92 K75sa ’03 R1150R
(Kevin’s)
…remaining .sig trimmed for better message/.sig ratio

Still on the theme of PR:
I’ve got the germ of an idea that I’d like to put out here and get some help
refining.
Since all CCs are aiming at the same general market, no matter what the
geographic area, shouldn’t we at least have all of our flyers at the same
cons? Particularly the hot-bed, costuming friendly/intensive ones? Couldn’t
a shared mass-marketing scheme be devised to promote all CCs

PR can be expensive. By sharing PR efforts we can generate more extensive
interest while reducing overall costs by pooling our resources and efforts.
Here’s some thoughts:
1. If one CC is sending flyers to a Con, include flyers from all the others;
maybe bids as well.
2. Collective flyers for smaller cons? Something like “Interested in
Costuming? Upcoming CCs are…”
3. Collective ads; similar content to #2 above. Program ads can be
expensive.

In other words, instead of marketing as individual cons, start using each
other’s sources and promote Costume-Con as a recurring event. Obviously each
group would devote more of their resources to their own effort but why not
piggyback? Share the work and the cost, and possibly produce wider benefits.
Nora

How many and which Cons have Costuming GOHs regularly?
I don’t know the whole list but think those would definitely be the ones to
focus on for PR. To me, that would be an indicator that they have an active
costuming community.

Nora

On Apr 28, 2004, at 5:01 AM, Bruce & Nora Mai wrote:

> Since all CCs are aiming at the same general market, no matter what the
> geographic area, shouldn’t we at least have all of our flyers at the
> same
> cons? Particularly the hot-bed, costuming friendly/intensive ones?
> Couldn’t
> a shared mass-marketing scheme be devised to promote all CCs

Yes.

> PR can be expensive. By sharing PR efforts we can generate more
> extensive
> interest while reducing overall costs by pooling our resources and
> efforts.
> Here’s some thoughts:
> 1. If one CC is sending flyers to a Con, include flyers from all the
> others;
> maybe bids as well.

We do color flyers. I looked into having them printed at a copy shop,
but it’s cheaper for me to buy a cheap inkjet printer, paper and ink
for 1000 flyers, run the job and throw out everything at the end and
start over. Keeping the printer for another run, of course, saves a bit
of money 😉

I used to run a pack of 200 flyers for a big con, but I’ve found most
of them go to waste (unless we pick the extras up at the end of the
con). These days I keep a stack of about 100 on hand (unless it’s a
really big costume-heavy con) and put out 20 or so at a time,
restocking if they run low.

Mail us a pack of fliers, we’ll put them out at the cons we go to.
Email me a PDF, and we’ll print and put out a few dozen. Next stops
are:
May 8: Imperial Dove Court de Fresno/Madera Coronation
May 28-31: BayCon
June 19: Silver Dollar Court of Reno Coronation
July 2-5: WesterCon
August 7: Imperial Court de San Diego Coronation
September 2-6: Noreascon4 (WorldCon)
September 18: Chicago Coronation (probably)

> 2. Collective flyers for smaller cons? Something like “Interested in
> Costuming? Upcoming CCs are…”

One of our fliers is “Mark your calendar for Costume-Con” with seated
committees’ and our bid’s dates. As soon as St. Louis has a published
date and venue, I’ll be updating your information on it.

> 3. Collective ads; similar content to #2 above. Program ads can be
> expensive.

I’m not sure of the value of program book ads for marketing to the
general membership. They’re very valuable in terms of building
connections with other convention committees.

—
andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen – http://www.bovil.com/
San Jose, CA – ’72 R75/5 ’86 R100 (mine) – ’92 K75sa ’03 R1150R
(Kevin’s)
…remaining .sig trimmed for better message/.sig ratio

On Apr 28, 2004, at 4:37 AM, Bruce & Nora Mai wrote:

> How many and which Cons have Costuming GOHs regularly?
> I don’t know the whole list but think those would definitely be the
> ones to
> focus on for PR. To me, that would be an indicator that they have an
> active
> costuming community.

Julie Zetterberg is Costume GOH at MarCon (Memorial Day Weekend) this
year. She’s going to be taking some of our fliers and award ribbons
with her.

—
Andy Trembley, Bull-in-Drag
The Bovine Illuminati (It’s the Cows, Inc.)
http://www.bovil.com/
Moo!

On Apr 28, 2004, at 5:01 AM, Bruce & Nora Mai wrote:

> In other words, instead of marketing as individual cons, start using
> each
> other’s sources and promote Costume-Con as a recurring event.
> Obviously each
> group would devote more of their resources to their own effort but why
> not
> piggyback? Share the work and the cost, and possibly produce wider
> benefits.

So here’s a starting point:
We’ve got a calendar on the RunaCC yahoogroup.
Log your events into the calendar with a subject format like
“CC26? at BayCon”
and the start-date of the event
Include in the notes what activities are planned for the event.
Set a reminder for 14 days in advance. That will give people time to
mail out fliers to you.

At least we know then who will be where and when

—
andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen – http://www.bovil.com/
San Jose, CA – ’72 R75/5 ’86 R100 (mine) – ’92 K75sa ’03 R1150R
(Kevin’s)
“It’s not pink, it’s peach-colored. Pink is tacky.”
–Manfred Pfirsich Marie Rommel

2nd most important safety device on my bike: the one beneath my right
hand
Most important safety device on my bike: the one inside my helmet

Think of applying some of the cross-marketing schemes to some of the big
sewing and Fiber Arta magazines, too–if several CC’s could get a display
ad together, it might cost everybody a lot less.

We really need to keep pushing CC to markets outside of fandom–think
design schools, sewing magazines, bead groups, art-to-wear folks, etc. I
wouldn’t go nuts pushing the con to schools and clubs outside the
aforementioned 500-mile radius of a given con, but I would try to hit as
many nationally circulated magazines as possible that appeal to creative
type people–Threads, Belle Armoire, etc. (Is Theater Crafts still around?
I haven’t had a subscription for years.)

The con needs to grow, and we need “new blood” from whereever we can get it.

–Karen

That one we knew. What other cons (in any state) regularly have Costuming
GOHs? Our regional, Archon, has for several years now. What others?

Nora

—– Original Message —–
From: “Andrew T Trembley” <attrembl@bovil.com>
> Julie Zetterberg is Costume GOH at MarCon (Memorial Day Weekend) this
> year. She’s going to be taking some of our fliers and award ribbons
> with her.

Inserted comments below.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Andrew T Trembley” <attrembl@bovil.com>
> We do color flyers. I looked into having them printed at a copy shop,
> but it’s cheaper for me to buy a cheap inkjet printer, paper and ink
> for 1000 flyers, run the job and throw out everything at the end and
> start over. Keeping the printer for another run, of course, saves a bit
> of money 😉
> I used to run a pack of 200 flyers for a big con, but I’ve found most
> of them go to waste (unless we pick the extras up at the end of the
> con). These days I keep a stack of about 100 on hand (unless it’s a
> really big costume-heavy con) and put out 20 or so at a time,
> restocking if they run low.

Yes, we’ve noted that color is cheaper to do at home, as well. And we’ve
also observed that re-stocking flyers is much cheaper.

> Mail us a pack of fliers, we’ll put them out at the cons we go to.
> Email me a PDF, and we’ll print and put out a few dozen.

Both ideas could work but which might be better? I see this as a
co-dependency thing – “You take mine, I’ll take yours” – so nobody loses and
you don’t have to worry about whether your flyers got there or ended up in
the trash because someone reliable is handling them for you.
FYI: PDF creation is not accessible to the average Joe. Would other formats
work for you? I’d be willing to accept Word docs and .rtfs (which
conicidentally is what I’d be able to send).

> One of our fliers is “Mark your calendar for Costume-Con” with seated
> committees’ and our bid’s dates. As soon as St. Louis has a published
> date and venue, I’ll be updating your information on it.

Yeah, that’s kind of the idea. We have info & links about past and future
CCs on CC25’s website. My thoughts on this would be to ‘share the wealth’.
if someone’s interested but can’t make a particular location, they’ll have
an easy list of upcoming sites. It will also reinforce that CC is a
traveling con and they’ll have future opportunities to attend if the
immediate ones aren’t in their area.

> I’m not sure of the value of program book ads for marketing to the
> general membership. They’re very valuable in terms of building
> connections with other convention committees.

So a collective ad would still build good will with the con committees and
yet cover more areas with less cost per con. We’ll still be supporting the
cons and get more PR coverage.

Anybody else?

Nora

On Apr 28, 2004, at 4:23 PM, Bruce & Nora Mai wrote:

> FYI: PDF creation is not accessible to the average Joe. Would other
> formats
> work for you? I’d be willing to accept Word docs and .rtfs (which
> conicidentally is what I’d be able to send).

Depends on what software and system you’re using. There is almost
always some way in which PDF creation is available to the average joe.

I do have full Adobe Acrobat, and use it to create PDFs, but I know not
everybody can afford it. Educational Discount (and indulgent management
at work) is nice.

If you’re on a Mac using OS X, you can create a PDF from any program;
it’s a standard printing feature of the system.

Some packages like Corel Draw and just about anything from Adobe offer
a “save as PDF” option.

There is also free PDF software available for windows:
http://www.primopdf.com/

The reason I ask for PDF is because then I don’t have to worry about
fonts and layout. PDF displays and prints consistently everywhere.
Can’t say that about MS Office doctypes, whether you’re talking .doc,
.xls or .rtf

—
Andy Trembley, Bull-in-Drag
The Bovine Illuminati (It’s the Cows, Inc.)
http://www.bovil.com/
Moo!

Arisia and Lunacon do, but it varies from year to year, depending on who’s
on the committee and pushing for it.

Ditto Balticon.

I was Fan GOH of WesterCon in 1989 based mainly on my costuming. Does that
mean they should count? (Andy probably has a better grasp of how
costumer-friendly the con is now.)

–Karen

At 06:07 PM 4/28/2004 -0500, you wrote:

>That one we knew. What other cons (in any state) regularly have Costuming
>GOHs? Our regional, Archon, has for several years now. What others?
>
>Nora
>—– Original Message —–
>From: “Andrew T Trembley” <attrembl@bovil.com>
> > Julie Zetterberg is Costume GOH at MarCon (Memorial Day Weekend) this
> > year. She’s going to be taking some of our fliers and award ribbons
> > with her.
>
>
>
>
>View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Bruce & Nora Mai wrote:

><snip>
>
>FYI: PDF creation is not accessible to the average Joe. Would other formats
>work for you? I’d be willing to accept Word docs and .rtfs (which
>conicidentally is what I’d be able to send).
>
>

If Adobe is too rich for your blood, and it is for mine, I can recommend
the following program:

PDF Creation, Tools and 100+ Templates for Office
One step creation & emailing of PDF files and yes you get pw protection,
hyperlinks, TOC, encryption and much more.
WOW special – Reg $39.95 – Just $19.95

http://www.templatezone.com/pdf-writer/officeready-pdf.asp?CID=153

It’s an add-on to Word & Excel and so far it has worked seamlessly for me. WordPerfect comes with a built-in “Save to PDF” and the above program seems to work equally well from Word. As usual, YMMV. I don’t have any business relationship with the company, but I’m always happy to recommend cheap software that does what it is supposed to do.

Marty

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Apr 28, 2004, at 5:25 PM, Ricky & Karen Dick wrote:

> I was Fan GOH of WesterCon in 1989 based mainly on my costuming. Does
> that
> mean they should count? (Andy probably has a better grasp of how
> costumer-friendly the con is now.)

WesterCon, like WorldCon, depends entirely upon the committee putting
it on. There is the strong traditional support for Masquerade, but some
years that might be it. This year the head of programming just happens
to be the president of SWCG and the FanGOH is John Hertz, so it’s going
to be a very costume-friendly con.

As for the Fan GOH question… regardless of the membership, any
convention that picks costumers as FanGOHs regularly is worth
cultivating a relationship with.

—
andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen
http://www.irlm.org/ – mailto:webmaster@irlm.org
“Anybody who takes this seriously deserves to”
— Donna Barr

Sounds like an idea! It might work best in terms of program book ads, which
can be too costly for an individual concom.

Flyers get cluttered up on freebee tables or racks; a flyer advertising
several CCs would need a VERY prominent headline to grab fannish attention
in the chaos of competing flyers (but that’s not impossible to devise).

Certainly, it would be good to bring/send to a con flyers for seated (and
therefore noncompetitive) CCs. I distributed CC 22 con and CC 26 bid flyers
at Arisia and Lunacon this year. If possible, have the flyers available at
masquerade registration and in the masquerade green room.

Now, what further steps can we take to attract costumers from venues other
than SF cons?

Byron

—– Original Message —–
From: “Bruce & Nora Mai” <casamai@sbcglobal.net>
To: <runacc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 8:01 AM
Subject: [runacc] Cross-Marketing

> Still on the theme of PR:
> I’ve got the germ of an idea that I’d like to put out here and get some
help
> refining.
> Since all CCs are aiming at the same general market, no matter what the
> geographic area, shouldn’t we at least have all of our flyers at the same
> cons? Particularly the hot-bed, costuming friendly/intensive ones?
Couldn’t
> a shared mass-marketing scheme be devised to promote all CCs
>
> PR can be expensive. By sharing PR efforts we can generate more extensive
> interest while reducing overall costs by pooling our resources and
efforts.
> Here’s some thoughts:
> 1. If one CC is sending flyers to a Con, include flyers from all the
others;
> maybe bids as well.
> 2. Collective flyers for smaller cons? Something like “Interested in
> Costuming? Upcoming CCs are…”
> 3. Collective ads; similar content to #2 above. Program ads can be
> expensive.
>
> In other words, instead of marketing as individual cons, start using each
> other’s sources and promote Costume-Con as a recurring event. Obviously
each
> group would devote more of their resources to their own effort but why not
> piggyback? Share the work and the cost, and possibly produce wider
benefits.
> Nora

Inclusion of a costume GoH seems to has been a growing phenomenon in recent
years — a good thing! Arisia and Lunacon have added one recently; I do not
know about other East Coast cons right now. This could reflect the presence
in their areas of active ICG chapters interested in competition costuming.

Byron

—– Original Message —–
From: “Bruce & Nora Mai” <casamai@sbcglobal.net>
To: <runacc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 7:37 AM
Subject: [runacc] Costuming GOHs

> How many and which Cons have Costuming GOHs regularly?
> I don’t know the whole list but think those would definitely be the ones
to
> focus on for PR. To me, that would be an indicator that they have an
active
> costuming community.
>
> Nora

Very good point.

Byron

—– Original Message —–
From: “Andrew T Trembley” <attrembl@bovil.com>
To: <runacc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 9:19 PM
Subject: Re: [runacc] Costuming GOHs

> As for the Fan GOH question… regardless of the membership, any
> convention that picks costumers as FanGOHs regularly is worth
> cultivating a relationship with.
>
> —
> andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen

At 09:43 PM 4/28/2004 -0400, you wrote:

>Arisia and Lunacon have added one recently; I do not
>know about other East Coast cons right now.

Balticon had Carol Salemi as Costume GOH in 2002, but there has been no
follow-up since.

Ricky sez you typically have to have a costumer-friendly con chair to get a
Costumer GOH to happen.

–Karen

I have very deliberately NOT pushed for Balticon to have a “Costumer
GoH”. Andrew Bergestrom (the con-chair that we fired) was the one who
decided to have a CGoH, and while the con was very happy to have Carol,
there was a good deal of unhappy talk afterward about were we trying to
turn Balticon into Costumecon. Given that I have been able to convince
Balticon to spend much more money on tech for the masquerade then it
really deserves (given the number of entries lately), as well as having
a costume programming track, providing a large function room (free) for
a Costumers’ party, and permitting a costumers’ guild fund raising
auction, I think that Balticon is sufficiently “Costumer Friendly” that
I don’t need to irritate anyone in the club by pushing for a CGoH. If a
future con chair decides to do it again, I won’t vote against it, but
neither will I propose it, and no, I’m not going to run another Balticon.

Marty

Ricky & Karen Dick wrote:

>At 09:43 PM 4/28/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>
>
>>Arisia and Lunacon have added one recently; I do not
>>know about other East Coast cons right now.
>>
>>
>
>Balticon had Carol Salemi as Costume GOH in 2002, but there has been no
>follow-up since.
>
>Ricky sez you typically have to have a costumer-friendly con chair to get a
>Costumer GOH to happen.
>
>–Karen
>
>
>
>
>
>View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Byron Connell wrote:

> Now, what further steps can we take to attract costumers from venues other
> than SF cons?

Well, first we need to identify those other venues.

My take on this is…

Imperial Courts (well, it’s what I’m stuck with this year, but it’s also
something I participate in anyway).

Local SCA chapters

Ethnic heritage societies

College art and drama programs

Local conventions (of all sorts)

I’ve imported my marketing database into the databases section of the
RunaCC yahoogroup so you can look it over. Right now it’s only about 2
dozen entries, and I haven’t started making heavy use of it, but it’s
something.

Feel free to enter your own marketing targets.

andy

Wow Marty, thats interesting.
Was it general fandom who made the costume-con statements?
or was it con-com types?
was there a perception that anything Andy Bergstrom wanted must be tainted?

The “turn Balticon into Costume -Con” quote seems so illogical.
Imagine what they’d think if it was still drawing 50-60 entries like in the
old days.

I’m in no way questioning your message of what’s going on there, just, as
an outsider, I always viewed Balticon as the warmest fuzzyest place for
costumers anywhere.
Perhaps thats more because of you and Bobbi than the con-coms themselves?

Ricky

martingear wrote:

> I have very deliberately NOT pushed for Balticon to have a “Costumer
> GoH”. Andrew Bergestrom (the con-chair that we fired) was the one who
> decided to have a CGoH, and while the con was very happy to have Carol,
> there was a good deal of unhappy talk afterward about were we trying to
> turn Balticon into Costumecon.

I’m assuming that the Balticon in question ran sometime near when CC ran
in the area.

I’ve got to wonder, though, what drugs people were taking when they
concluded that adding a Costume GoH was an attempt to turn Balticon into
Costume-Con. It’s not like having a Costume GoH takes anything away
(besides a bit of budget, which had to have been there in the first
place) from the convention being a general con.

It’s a perception thing. There will always be “trufen” who believe that
their fandom is the only fandom, and anything different is a dangerous
distraction (the worst examples seem to be found in fanzine fandom).
There will always be people who assume that folks involved in fannish
niches (gaming, art, costuming) aren’t interested in anything else.

The former can go to hell. The latter… I can forgive. A costumer out
of costume doesn’t look any different than any other fan, much like a
gamer away from the gaming table does. Considering how often my friends
don’t recognize me in costume, I can understand when folks who don’t
know me don’t realize when I’m doing a more general panel that they’ve
seen me on stage.

So where does this leave the question of Costume GoH’s?

I guess I like the idea of Costume GoH’s. I’d rather, though, see more
conventions considering costumers for Fan GoH candidates. Costume GoH’s
reinforce the idea that we’re something different from other fans (and
since for most of us this isn’t a profession, that isn’t true; even for
the professionals it often isn’t). Costumers as Fan GoH’s reinforce that
we’re part of the happy fannish family. It may mean less chances for
costumers to travel and enjoy a con on a committee’s nickel, but I think
it would help show that costume fandom is in the heart of general fandom.

andy

Andrew Trembley wrote:

> I guess I like the idea of Costume GoH’s. I’d rather, though, see more
> conventions considering costumers for Fan GoH candidates. Costume GoH’s
> reinforce the idea that we’re something different from other fans (and
> since for most of us this isn’t a profession, that isn’t true; even for
> the professionals it often isn’t). Costumers as Fan GoH’s reinforce that
> we’re part of the happy fannish family. It may mean less chances for
> costumers to travel and enjoy a con on a committee’s nickel, but I think
> it would help show that costume fandom is in the heart of general fandom.
>
> andy

Hear, Hear!!!

I think that you’re right – the perception is frequently that costumers
aren’t “real” fen, because they devote their free time to something
other than reading. Sadly, the same perception at Balticon has occurred
for other niches as well (not just costume).

While it isn’t (and never will be) as bad as Boskone for the
not-readers, there have been times in the fairly recent past where
members of the Balticon concom have been less than friendly towards the
“other” fen, and the con has suffered a reduction in attendance as a
result. Many of the people who took their toys and went elsewhere are
showing up now at the Anime cons.

There are other factors as well. The con used to be Easter Weekend, and
now occurs on Memorial Day weekend. Sadly, that puts it in direct
competition with about a half a dozen other major events (including
MediaWest), which draw long-time masquerade participants away from the area.

Add to that the number of local costumers who have burned out, are
dealing with health/financial issues, or who just don’t get to cons
anymore, and you have a substantially smaller field of entries in the
masquerade.

I don’t think that this is Costume-Con’s fault, but I can understand the
perception problem.

And I’m one of the ones to blame for not competing. I really *hate* the
Omni (or whatever it goes by these days), and commuting does not go with
costuming for competition. Now that we have a van, things might be a
little different, but with a new baby, it will likely still be some time
before I get up on stage with a presentation again.

I heard a hot rumor (unsubstantiated) that the Hunt Valley will be
taking Balticon back in the near future. If that’s the case, we may
start attending on a regular basis again.

YMMV!

Betsy
—
—
Betsy R. Delaney
Web Mistress at large

************************************************************************
http://www.WebInvent.com/ * http://www.hawkeswood.com/
http://www.Costume-Con.org/ * http://www.sickpups.org/
http://www.SchoolWithoutWalls.org/
************************************************************************

In a message dated 4/28/2004 8:43:41 PM Central Daylight Time,
bconnel1@nycap.rr.com writes:

> Inclusion of a costume GoH seems to has been a growing phenomenon in recent
> years — a good thing!

I just remembered that you were the Costuming GoH at Archon some years ago,
Byron. I was happy to see you there, but then again, I’m happy to bump into you
at any con!

I think that the reason that more cons are having a C GoH is because they
realize that the masquerade IS a major drawing event on Saturday night. At least
the smart conventions. At WindyCon in Chicago, getting them to treat the
masquerade more than just an after thought has been a struggle for ten years. They
seem to think that their long and windy art auction, which doesn’t sell as
much art as it should because its long and windy, is much more important.
Henry

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 4/28/2004 9:03:35 PM Central Daylight Time,
castleb@pulsenet.com writes:

> Ricky sez you typically have to have a costumer-friendly con chair to get a
>
> Costumer GOH to happen.

Hmmm. That would explain the troubles at WindyCon.
Henry

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Andrew Trembley wrote:

><snip>
>
> I’m assuming that the Balticon in question ran sometime near when CC
> ran in the area.

Actually, no. Because Balticon is Costumer Friendly, and has supported
the three CC’s that we have held in the area, we have been careful not
to step on their weekend.

See my answer to Ricky.

><snip>
>
>I guess I like the idea of Costume GoH’s. I’d rather, though, see more
>conventions considering costumers for Fan GoH candidates. Costume GoH’s
>reinforce the idea that we’re something different from other fans (and
>since for most of us this isn’t a profession, that isn’t true; even for
>the professionals it often isn’t). Costumers as Fan GoH’s reinforce that
>we’re part of the happy fannish family. It may mean less chances for
>costumers to travel and enjoy a con on a committee’s nickel, but I think
>it would help show that costume fandom is in the heart of general fandom.
>
>andy
>

I am in total agreement with you here. I’ve been Fan (or Fang) GoH at
three large regional conventions and while I’m sure that the reason had
something to do with my costuming, I hope that wasn’t the only reason.

Marty

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Betsy Delaney wrote:

><snip>
>There are other factors as well. The con used to be Easter Weekend, and
>now occurs on Memorial Day weekend. Sadly, that puts it in direct
>competition with about a half a dozen other major events (including
>MediaWest), which draw long-time masquerade participants away from the area.
>

The reason that Balticon changed weekends is that attendance had been
dropping steadily and people kept telling us that it was because Easter
or Passover was a family time, and if we’d change the weekend they would
come. We did and they didn’t.

><snip>
>And I’m one of the ones to blame for not competing. I really *hate* the
>Omni (or whatever it goes by these days), and commuting does not go with
>costuming for competition. Now that we have a van, things might be a
>little different, but with a new baby, it will likely still be some time
>before I get up on stage with a presentation again.
>

Excuses, excuses, excuses .

>I heard a hot rumor (unsubstantiated) that the Hunt Valley will be
>taking Balticon back in the near future. If that’s the case, we may
>start attending on a regular basis again.
>

Betsy, you can always ask a member of the Board of Directors. It is not
unsubstantiated, the contract has been signed, and it will happen two
years from now (2006). The reason that we haven’t gone back to Hunt
Valley sooner is that the convention was being blackballed by a
saleswoman at Hunt Valley who got caught, by us, trying to stick the
convention with $10,000 worth of false charges. She lost a promotion
for getting caught (not for the padded bill) and kept us out of Hunt
Valley until she finally moved out of the area.

Marty

Ricky –
It was a couple of the older con com members, and I think that in part
their concern was financial/ “GoH creep” rather than being
“anti-costumer.” The fear was that if we had a Costumer GoH as a
standard thing then pretty soon there would be demands for a Gaming GoH,
a Media GoH, Anime GoH etc. each year and Balticon can’t afford that.
Balticon has to support BSFS (pay for a building etc.) and vice versa,
and both are run by pretty much the same committee. We do our best to
make compromises so that we can all work comfortably with each other.
I’m sure that part of the problem was Andrew and his attempt to
run/micromanage every aspect of the con. The con chair has the ability
to choose 1 special guest in addition to choosing the Writer GoH and the
Art GoH (the filk Czar chooses the Filking GoH). This is not to say
that there won’t be a Costuming GoH at some time in the future, just
that it probably won’t be an every year thing.

Marty

Ricky & Karen Dick wrote:

>Wow Marty, thats interesting.
>Was it general fandom who made the costume-con statements?
>or was it con-com types?
>was there a perception that anything Andy Bergstrom wanted must be tainted?
>
>The “turn Balticon into Costume -Con” quote seems so illogical.
>Imagine what they’d think if it was still drawing 50-60 entries like in the
>old days.
>
>I’m in no way questioning your message of what’s going on there, just, as
>an outsider, I always viewed Balticon as the warmest fuzzyest place for
>costumers anywhere.
>Perhaps thats more because of you and Bobbi than the con-coms themselves?
>
>Ricky
>
>
>

There is a directory of all 245 public and private colleges and universities
in New York State on the New York State Education Department’s Web site, at
www.highered.nysed.gov/ocue/. It is downloadable as either an HTML or a
Word file, as well as printable as a PDF document.

Byron

—– Original Message —–
From: “Andrew Trembley” <attrembl@bovil.com>
To: <runacc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2004 1:13 AM
Subject: Re: [runacc] Cross-Marketing
>
> College art and drama programs

>
> andy

On Apr 29, 2004, at 4:56 PM, Byron Connell wrote:

> There is a directory of all 245 public and private colleges and
> universities
> in New York State on the New York State Education Department’s Web
> site, at
> www.highered.nysed.gov/ocue/. It is downloadable as either an HTML or
> a
> Word file, as well as printable as a PDF document.

A good start. I’ve actually been combing local university and college
websites to get contact info specifically for the theater and art &
design departments. From an inside perspective, I can tell you that
results are much more forthcoming if you can actually contact the
person responsible for correspondence in the department rather than
chancing that a general inquiry gets properly routed.

—
andy trembley, Bitchy Design Queen – http://www.bovil.com/
San Jose, CA – ’72 R75/5 ’86 R100 (mine) – ’92 K75sa ’03 R1150R
(Kevin’s)
…remaining .sig trimmed for better message/.sig ratio

I hate to keep hammering this in, but you ain’t been to Archon yet….

Bruce

>
> I’m in no way questioning your message of what’s going on there, just, as
> an outsider, I always viewed Balticon as the warmest fuzzyest place for
> costumers anywhere.
> Perhaps thats more because of you and Bobbi than the con-coms themselves?
>
> Ricky
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

I think that Andy’s probably right about the whole FGOH vx. CGOH thing. So
the question becomes, outside of having a friendly commmittee, how do we
get more cons to recognize the value of a costuming guest?

Bruce

—– Original Message —–
From: “martingear” <MartinGear@comcast.net>
To: <runacc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2004 9:22 AM
Subject: Re: [runacc] Costuming GOHs

> Ricky –
> It was a couple of the older con com members, and I think that in part
> their concern was financial/ “GoH creep” rather than being
> “anti-costumer.” The fear was that if we had a Costumer GoH as a
> standard thing then pretty soon there would be demands for a Gaming GoH,
> a Media GoH, Anime GoH etc. each year and Balticon can’t afford that.
> Balticon has to support BSFS (pay for a building etc.) and vice versa,
> and both are run by pretty much the same committee. We do our best to
> make compromises so that we can all work comfortably with each other.
> I’m sure that part of the problem was Andrew and his attempt to
> run/micromanage every aspect of the con. The con chair has the ability
> to choose 1 special guest in addition to choosing the Writer GoH and the
> Art GoH (the filk Czar chooses the Filking GoH). This is not to say
> that there won’t be a Costuming GoH at some time in the future, just
> that it probably won’t be an every year thing.
>
> Marty
>
> Ricky & Karen Dick wrote:
>
> >Wow Marty, thats interesting.
> >Was it general fandom who made the costume-con statements?
> >or was it con-com types?
> >was there a perception that anything Andy Bergstrom wanted must be
tainted?
> >
> >The “turn Balticon into Costume -Con” quote seems so illogical.
> >Imagine what they’d think if it was still drawing 50-60 entries like in
the
> >old days.
> >
> >I’m in no way questioning your message of what’s going on there, just, as
> >an outsider, I always viewed Balticon as the warmest fuzzyest place for
> >costumers anywhere.
> >Perhaps thats more because of you and Bobbi than the con-coms themselves?
> >
> >Ricky
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> View the Document: http://www.Costume-Con.org/procedure/runacc/
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>